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ok.. hmm who do you think will win this match?

...?


Are you dumb or just spiteful?

revan

Probably Sidious, but I doubt it would be as close as JollyJim seems to be implying here.

Sidious, easy cookies.

How about you make an argument, oh wise one.

Revan taught Bane a few moves via a holocron.
Sidious blew up a fleet.

The force storm can't be utilised in a versus fight, try again.

The force storm can't be utilised in a versus fight, try again.

Sidious, though he'll have a tough fight. Sidious is # 1 man, undisputed champion. Revan's like third or something. He comes close.

Yoda is more powerful than Revan. ROTS Sidous is even with Yoda, and DE Sidious puts his former self to shame.

How is Yoda more powerful than Revan? Please...

Well because he has better feats, has shown more, and is "the avatar of light, Supreme Master of the Jedi Order, the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known . . . "

I think that about sums it up.

Revan destroyed an entire army of Rakatans with his storm of force lightning. That's beyond anything Yoda has done.



'Cause there is more material on Yoda....



Source please, and be specific as to where it is said, as just providing the quote without putting it into context isn't quite enough.

Planet, the quote is from the ROTS novelization.

Yes, the omniscient narrator of the ROTS Novelization. Anyway, Sidious wins this, this could easily get off topic.

Well gee, a fricking page number would be nice!

DE Sidious can move faster than the eye can see; he is also capable of destroying lightsabers with mere hand gestures. So, lol, Revan doesn't have a prayer of a chance in a lightsaber fight - and a pre-RotJ Sidious was capable of obliterating a batallion of stormtroopers with Force lightning.

So... no. Revan doesn't have a chance, really.

Quantify just exactly how fast this is, please.



He wouldn't be able to pull this off, for the same reason he wouldn't be able to use TK to pull a lightsaber away from him - force shield. And please, if he could really do this, why not to Mace, or Yoda in RotS, or Luke in DE.

Seriously Gideon, this displays clear ignorance. One of the first lessons a jedi is taught is sufficient a defence against this.



A pre-KotOR Revan was able to destroy an entire army of Rakatans with lightning...

I don't have to. Leia was witness to Luke and Sidious's fight in Dark Empire. It was said that she couldn't see either of them - only that they were generating waves of energy. Likewise, according to the audio drama, the fight was so intense that it killed nearby stormtroopers.



You can't say that a "force shield" is going to stop such an attack. If that is the case, why can't it stop Force lightning? Force drain? Force grip?

Sidious also didn't have this ability in RotS - I never claimed that he did, either. And he viewed his duel with Luke as a "game", in which he tried to display his dominance.



Defense against having their lightsaber destroyed by their opponents with hand gestures? Why, they must teach some hardcore lessons at the Academy.



Was it ever confirmed to be Force lightning? You said his version of a Force Storm - which is an upgraded form of lightning. Not the same thing.

Originally posted by The Planet
A pre-KotOR Revan was able to destroy an entire army of Rakatans with lightning...

Nebaris, can you tell me how many were in that what was it, one scouting group of Rakatans? I know he did this, but for the sake - just wondering.

You are a difficult person to get on messenger.

Source?
Funny how the comic didn't display this...



Nice... So you're using a source which likely no one has access to apart from you apparently.
Funny how the comic didn't display this...



Force lightning is an indirect tangible attack. It wouldn't be blocked for the same reason a lightsaber wouldn't be.



Where's it said that it can't block a drain.



Actually, it can block TK.



The fact is, I've provided a valid defence for it, and Sidious has only successfully displayed it against DE Leia, who had been a jedi for like how long? 5 minutes?



Force shield is a basic technique, Bane learns it pretty early on in the academy at Korriban, and padawans in the PT order were taught it pretty early on as well.


1. I said storm of force lightning, not force storm.
2. Force storm is a completely different technique to force lightning, it's not an upgraded version.

Originally posted by Advent
Nebaris, can you tell me how many were in that what was it, one scouting group of Rakatans? I know he did this, but for the sake - just wondering.

An army according to The One, I have no clue as to how many that was.

LOL, you admitted you're Nebaris. Why call yourself the Planet?

Where did I admit it?

The Dark Empire audio drama. It's a CD with the contents of the novel spoken. I owned a copy a while back.



Please, Nebaris. Assuming only makes an ass out of you and - well... you.

I believe Lightsnake might even have a copy.



Force lightning is generated by the Force. A lightsaber isn't. Surely, a Force shield would protect the user from Force-based attacks. Don't compare lightning to a lightsaber.



Oh, it has?



I'm not talking about a Force push. I said a Force grip. Telekinetic energy fueled by usage of the dark side that constricts the throat. Has it been shown to block Force grip?



The fact is, you haven't, and - again - what makes it special against Leia? I think you're just assuming, but all right.



A force shield that - again - can protect from lightning, grip, and drain?



Not Sidious's Force Storm, Nebaris, but the KotoR version of the Force Storm - an upgrade of Force lightning.

Really Escape thats a sad argument, the only reason he could destroy Liea's saber is because it had been an ANCIENT relic milineua old, and other then the fact that Leia had been as put a Jedi(in name only) for about three seconds its perfectly acceptable that she didn't have an adequate defense against someone like Darth ****ing Sidious. He even comments on what a piece of shit the saber is. Come on.

As for the faster then teh eye can see, who was watching? Again Liea who as before mentioned was a Jedi for a day had little to zilch training and what she did came from Vima Da Boda, But really I don't see whats so special about using force speed, Mace and Sidious were described as blurs too and this time by ANAKIN. And yet a multiple people can hypothetically compete and sometimes win against both of them, Revan being one of these.

The Point. Stop creaming your pants over force speed.

Just to let you guys know, NEC declared palpatine the most powerful sith lord
and that the DESB stated palpatine knew every technique of the dark side of the force including the "spear of midnight black".

Gideon, speed not always need to be the factor, take sidious vs yoda for example, yoda is much much faster than sidious, and in the end it was a stalemate, same with vader vs his opponents, he may not be fast be he still can take down his enemies

and nebaris if its really you, (you can have this) t(-.-t) thats right crado
EDIT

@ ok lets not forget that palpatines force storm is so powerful it could tear the fabrics of space apart, it only takes him a few mere seconds to create one but wouldnt it be extremely dangerous to do so during battle? like 2 bad things
1)he leaves himself open to revan
2) he could kill himself with storm because even he cant control such a power as he stated in the book of anger

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Really Escape thats a sad argument, the only reason he could destroy Liea's saber is because it had been an ANCIENT relic milineua old, and other then the fact that Leia had been as put a Jedi(in name only) for about three seconds its perfectly acceptable that she didn't have an adequate defense against someone like Darth ****ing Sidious. He even comments on what a piece of shit the saber is. Come on.

As for the faster then teh eye can see, who was watching? Again Liea who as before mentioned was a Jedi for a day had little to zilch training and what she did came from Vima Da Boda, But really I don't see whats so special about using force speed, Mace and Sidious were described as blurs too and this time by ANAKIN. And yet a multiple people can hypothetically compete and sometimes win against both of them, Revan being one of these.

The Point. Stop creaming your pants over force speed.

Lol, AC, I wasn't aware that Jedi training augmented one's eyesight.

DE Sidious easily takes this.

quote]The Dark Empire audio drama. It's a CD with the contents of the novel spoken. I owned a copy a while back.

Good for you.



Clearly, you had been saving that one, and just couldn't hold it in any longer, because a good time to use it would have been when, you know, I actually made an assumption relevant to the actual debate.



Good for him.



So... All matter in the SW Galaxy is made up of the force, including a lightsaber, the fact that it is a manifestation of the force is pretty irrelevant.



Only direct force-based attacks it seems. Now please, be logical. The force shield has no physical presence, so why would it block direct tangible attacks?



Absence of proof does not = proof of absence. Now please, logically provide a reason why the shield wouldn't block it, especially considering that it has been able to block pretty much every intangible attack it has ever come across, as far as we know.



...
As I said, it can block TK, grip is an example of TK. In fact, when Bane grips Quordis, Quordis attempts to block it with a shield, but Bane's attack just tears through it - the point is, he believed that he would be able to defend himself with a shield.



Leia was untrained, she lacked the knowledge of defending against it. But seriously Gideon, such a thing wouldn't work for the same reason a lightsaber can't be pulled away with TK during a battle, or the same reason you can't just use TK to turn the lightsaber button of your opponent off, again, these are early skills taught to padawans.



1 question, why are you bringing up irrelevant points? I perfectly know what a force storm is, I perfectly know what a storm of lightning is, quit telling me what I already know as if you're in a position of superior knowledge. But seriously, if you originally had a point, take a breather, and start again, because I seriously don't know what you're talking about.



Grip and drain, not lightning. Quit bringing this point up again and again. I've already responded to it.



Jedi training augments all the senses according to Qui-Gon in Jedi Apprentice...

Edit - Nice to see you're copying Advent by the way, 'retired' one.

Thinking logically about this it seems many members are biased towards Sidious as he is displayed more so than Revan. Revan was a master swordsman, if sidious used his knowledge of the force in order to remove his weapon then it clearly shows his fear of what Revan can do. True, Revan may not be as intricately skilled in the force as his latter but he would most likely be able to muster enough power to cut sidious down if he survived the mere struggle of using the force. Think about it, Revan was before the time of Sidious and was already using the raw power of a force storm which conveys how if sidious wasnt defeated by him he would be worn down pretty badly.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
DE Sidious easily takes this.
You are badly mistaken if you think that DE Sidious can take on a foe as powerful as Revan without any major difficulty.

Still I do believe that DE Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord ever known and will win in this fight, but after a long and hard battle.

But we have to note that Revan knows some devastating force powers that can kill an enemy in an instant.

So this fight will be more based on chances.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Revan taught Bane a few moves via a holocron.
Sidious blew up a fleet.
And those few moves also include the knowledge of the feared Thought Bomb, which is one of the deadliest dark side rituals ever known.

And those few moves enhanced Bane's power like never before.

Bane even hinted that Revan knew some dark side powers that were too dangerous to try.

Try to be more open-minded next time.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And those few moves also include the knowledge of the feared Thought Bomb, which is one of the deadliest dark side rituals ever known.

And those few moves enhanced Bane's power like never before.

Bane even hinted that Revan knew some dark side powers that were too dangerous to try.

Try to be more open-minded next time.

so? Palpatines force powers alone were so powerful it could tear the fabrics of space, and yet he mastered EVERY single dark side technique as the DESB stated.

Palpatine knows the thought bomb btw... It was stated in the DESB

Quantify and substantiate this.



Bullshit. I own the DESB, it doesn't ever say that crap.

Originally posted by Kadesh
so? Palpatines force powers alone were so powerful it could tear the fabrics of space, and yet he mastered EVERY single dark side technique as the DESB stated.

Palpatine knows the thought bomb btw... It was stated in the DESB
Did I said anything negative about Sidious?

Try to read more carefully next time.

Originally posted by The Planet
Quantify and substantiate this.
O? the book of anger? Dark empire? EDIT- force storm

Originally posted by The Planet

Bullshit. I own the DESB, it doesn't ever say that crap.
Heh yea right. What part of "every aspect of the force" do you not understand? That he mastered EVERY dark side technique

by the way, get off these forums you sock

Do you even know what quantify and substantiate mean? LOL, I didn't ask you to name a source.



That's not in there either, LOL! And even so, mastering the dark side of the force /= mastering every single darkside technique.

Originally posted by The Planet
Do you even know what quantify and substantiate mean? LOL, I didn't ask you to name a source.
But what differece does it make when im proving it to you?

Originally posted by The Planet

That's not in there either, LOL! And even so, mastering the dark side of the force /= mastering every single darkside technique.


Dont have to lie nebaris, i read that book damm clearly, you do not have that book do you? The exact quote is "He mastered all known, unknown force powers and invents new ones at his pleasure"

LMFAO!!
Nice misquote, thanks for proving that you're talking crap. The actual quote is 'It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers and devises new ones at his pleasure'. Seriously dude...



I asked you to explain just exactly what 'tearing the fabric of space and time' entails, and to quantify just exactly how much power is needed to do so. Naming a source doesn't quite work for me.

Originally posted by The Planet
LMFAO!!
Nice misquote, thanks for proving that you're talking crap. The actual quote is 'It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers and devises new ones at his pleasure'. Seriously dude... Wow so need to laugh it i just forget to add in "it is believed"? And there was the DE hand book which also states he masters every aspect of the force,


Originally posted by The Planet

I asked you to explain just exactly what 'tearing the fabric of space and time' entails, and to quantify just exactly how much power is needed to do so. Naming a source doesn't quite work for me. The details? sure, palpatines force storm which rips a worm hole in space

ok you want me to pull the quote here it is


(Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure)

There are other sources which states he mastered every aspect of the force according to lightsnake, that one i will have to check. He problably pulled that one from the dark empire handbook

Originally posted by Gideon
Lol, AC, I wasn't aware that Jedi training augmented one's eyesight.

Well yes it can, aptitude and training in the force can augment the eyesight of an individual, making it stronger, being able to see things moving faster then the normal person could see.

Example. #1 Kreia, willfully destroyed her eyes so she could only make out basic shapes and such with the force, she said how she could restore her former vision if she choose

Example #2 Jolee tells a story on how on old master was going blind how he could restore his eyes and make them better but in his stubbornness he choose not to.

And theoretically(not even that since its been done so many times) the force can be used to enhance a force users physical and mental attributes in every way, that includes vision, Now if Liea who had as I 've said been a Jedi for like 3 seconds would logically not be able to follow the movements of force users of the level of Luke and Sidious in battle.

And really lets use logic, if it their eyesight wasn't increased how could Sidious and Luke follow each others movements in battle and be able to fight effectively? The would just be randomly flailing at each other like idiots.

As I said a sad argument, I expect more out of you then that...

Wow, can I say QED!

Touche, Ac.

Sidious takes this. As Lightsnake has shown (and I reluctantly admit) DE Sidious is the strongest Darksider around.

Agreed, though it's not as close as JJ (you know who you are!) implied.

Actually, Nebby, it looks like Sidious has this one pretty easily. Force shield isn't a set technique with set results. It varies on the power of the user. As I was going to say, but you already did (good job dicking over your argument):

Originally posted by The Planet


Sidious' force skills are far above Revans', as is his connection to the force. He would rip through Revans defences, if need be with simple attacks, or use a lesser known force attack that Revan wouldn't know about or have a defence for. Sidious any time, every time.

I never argued against that dummy, I was just providing a perfectly valid defence.



Far? Care to provide proof.



Care to provide proof, while Sidious likely has a pretty good connection, his knowledge is what makes him as great as he is, I'm afraid you're gonna have to provide more proof. And wasn't Luke's potential something like double Sidious'? Can't be too great.



Most probably, but not easily. Need I remind you that there have been plenty of times in SW where an opponent weaker in the force has defended himself against the force attacks of a stronger opponent.

Sure there have...


But in a versus fight, the one with the stronger force and lightsaber abilities is usually dubbed the victor...

And when those abilities far surpass the opponents, it's usually regarded as easy for the more powerful person...

Far? Care to provide proof

Let's see. The strongest thing Revan has ever done is what, killing a few Rakata. Sidious, on the otherhand, has enough power to destroy CAPITAL STARSHIPS. Capital ships are capable of turning the surfaces of planets into slag, yet he took many of them out.

And not to forget, obliterated a battalion Stormtroopers using Force lightning, pre-DE, and actually pre-OT (1 BBY, to be exact), too:

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/126/sidiouspwnsnx0.th.jpg

Given I'm not sure how many Rakatans Revan killed (as Nai had said it was a "scouting party", how many are inclusive of that?), I'd assume this is, at the least, equal to what Revan did, as I doubt that's Sidious' upper limit - even at that point of his power - due to the nonchalant attitude displayed beforehand (casually continuing to drink water while not even paying attention). And since then, he's become more powerful by DE.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Let's see. The strongest thing Revan has ever done is what, killing a few Rakata. Sidious, on the otherhand, has enough power to destroy CAPITAL STARSHIPS. Capital ships are capable of turning the surfaces of planets into slag, yet he took many of them out.
Your analysis (regarding Revan) is very short-sighted and totally incorrect.

Revan's biggest display of power is not known yet, as not much is known about him and his complete history remains to be revealed.

But from what we know, his biggest display of power was on Star Forge. Their he had to fight against huge number of Sith Warriors, Dark Jedi and powerful Droids and he defeated them all.

Now, how he defeated such "overwhelming enemy forces" is not known yet but common sense suggests that he (Revan) has to be a very powerful force user and an excellent swords-man to achieve victory against so many enemies.

Revan was with his party members so i wouldnt count that.
And palpatine has demonstrated far more impressive abilities.

He could kill revan by just looking at him, "deadly sight"
And palpatine by DE has learnt this since he mastered every aspect of the dark side of the force as several sources pointed it out.

so... who voted for revan?

Originally posted by Kadesh
Revan was with his party members so i wouldnt count that.
And palpatine has demonstrated far more impressive abilities.

He could kill revan by just looking at him, "deadly sight"
And palpatine by DE has learnt this since he mastered every aspect of the dark side of the force as several sources pointed it out.

so... who voted for revan?
Kadesh!

Revan's party members were heavily out-numbered on Star Forge and they stood no chance against the Sith forces without help from Revan.

Remember that when Revan destroyed the squad of powerful Star Forge Battle Droids, Malak's commander immediately informed him of defeat of SF Battle Droids and Malak was surprised but when his commander informed him of Revan's presense, then Malak himself gave credit to Revan by saying that "Revan was always strong in the force".

Here is good profile on Revan: http://www.gamespot.com/pages/unions/read_article.php?topic_id=24266711&union_id=2511

And these lines are in the profile: "Aboard the Star Forge, Revan almost single-handedly defeated an entire army of Sith and Dark Jedi, a testament to his power in the Force and mastery of lightsaber combat."

And provide me proof that Sidious can kill Revan with just his "deadly-sight". Because if his "deadly-sight" was so powerful then he would have killed Luke Skywalker with it.

Um luke skywalker read his books and learnt UNDER sidious during DE so he would know how to counter "deadly sight"
And i would say sidious would not use that during battle, He has got so many other force powers over revan and have far more deadly force powers, by the way, sidious knows every technique that revan knew, including the thought bomb



Again theres "spear of midnight black" which revan would not expect.

And by the way, sidious destroyed an entire room of storm troopers with just 1 shot of lighting, and we are talking about dozens of storm troopers, By the way, the sith didnt all come as an army on revan, they all came individually

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Far? Care to provide proof

Let's see. The strongest thing Revan has ever done is what, killing a few Rakata. Sidious, on the otherhand, has enough power to destroy CAPITAL STARSHIPS. Capital ships are capable of turning the surfaces of planets into slag, yet he took many of them out.

An army, Glen. And this was before KotOR.

so? palpatine destroyed an entire fleet in space and killed a platoon of troopers in his office with 1 shot of lightning

Originally posted by Kadesh
Um luke skywalker read his books and learnt UNDER sidious during DE so he would know how to counter "deadly sight"
This is not a good enough evidence.

Originally posted by Kadesh
And i would say sidious would not use that during battle, He has got so many other force powers over revan and have far more deadly force powers, by the way, sidious knows every technique that revan knew, including the thought bomb
Again your speculations never end.

OK! we acknowledge that Sidious had most knowledge of Dark Side powers but how can you say that he knows so many more force powers then Revan? Do you actually know that how many force powers Revan knows?

Revan's knowledge of Dark Side Force Powers surpassed the entire knowledge of Sith Powers found in Korriban planet, where many tombs of powerful ancient Sith Lords were present. And Revan has explored many such tombs of ancient Sith Lords in quest for greater power and discovered huge number of ancient secrets. Is this information not enough?

Remember that you can't fully judge Revan's power from a game.

So your claim that Sidious knew far more then Revan is simply baseless. Yes! Sidious might have known more but to say that he knew far more is completetly rubbish because you can't prove it.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Again theres "spear of midnight black" which revan would not expect.
Sadly, another speculation from you. We don't know that how much Revan knows about Dark Side Force Powers but we do know that Revan knew large number of Dark Side Force Powers and it could be a possibility that he would have known this power as well but this is also an assumption. Still a person who knows "Thought Bomb" will surely know a lot more.

Originally posted by Kadesh
And by the way, sidious destroyed an entire room of storm troopers with just 1 shot of lighting, and we are talking about dozens of storm troopers
Revan killed dozens of Rakatan Warriors in Lehon Planet in single shot of lightening as well, so this is nothing special.

Originally posted by Kadesh
By the way, the sith didnt all come as an army on revan, they all came individually
Wow! this is the most stupidest comment I have ever read in this forum yet. You think that those Sith Warriors were stupid enough to go and face Revan in one by one fashion so that they could easily get slaughtered like flies by him? Well done! Kadesh! you have proved to be a 3 year old to me now.

Go play KOTOR again and this time, set difficulty level to "Normal" at-least (which is recommended).

Well luke stated he knew how to block dark side powers in DE 2 after he had studied from sidious and sidious himself claimed he taught luke too well, That luke knows how to defend against palpatine, O and didnt luke some how discovered a defence against palpatines force storm?

Theres your "evidence"


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

OK! we acknowledge that Sidious had most knowledge of Dark Side powers but how can you say that he knows so many more force powers then Revan? Do you actually know that how many force powers Revan knows?
Wrong, sidious had mastered every aspect of the dark side of the force, source? DESB and the dark empire source handbook as well as the comic itself and lets not forget the Audio book
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan's knowledge of Dark Side Force Powers surpassed the entire knowledge of Sith Powers found in Korriban planet, where many tombs of powerful ancient Sith Lords were present. And Revan has explored many such tombs of ancient Sith Lords in quest for greater power and discovered huge number of ancient secrets. Is this information not enough? That ends when i say that it has been proven that sidious mastered everything there was in the dark side of the force.
Sidious had done the same thing and yet he could invent new powers such as the force storm, the one which tears the fabrics of space and destroyed an entire fleet killing thousands of people


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

So your claim that Sidious knew far more then Revan is simply baseless. Yes! Sidious might have known more but to say that he knew far more is completetly rubbish because you can't prove it.
Baseless? That several sources pointed out that he mastered all the dark side techniques? that lightsnake has proven this time and again? That both DESB , the audio book and the handbook stated palpatine knew eveytechnique? Suggestion? go read them
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Sadly, another speculation from you. We don't know that how much Revan knows about Dark Side Force Powers but we do know that Revan knew large number of Dark Side Force Powers and it could be a possibility that he would have known this power as well but this is also an assumption. Still a person who knows "Thought Bomb" will surely know a lot more. Not when palpatine is declared the most powerful sith and the greatest sith lord by the NEC. And palpatine spent decades mastering the dark side and surpassed every other sithlord including exar kun.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Revan killed dozens of Rakatan Warriors in Lehon Planet in single shot of lightening as well, so this is nothing special.
. Yes and sidious sent an entire fleet consisting of thousands of people to oblivion
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Wow! this is the most stupidest comment I have ever read in this forum yet. You think that those Sith Warriors were stupid enough to go and face Revan in one by one fashion so that they could be easily picked out like flies by him? Well done! Kadesh! you have proved to be a 3 year old to me now.. Learn to debate civily please.
It was what was shown, 3 at a time the dark jedis came out. Why dont prove that an entire army came at that time? hm? *waits for an answer*
Revan was shown killing the "army" 1 by 1 individually
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Go play KOTOR again and this time, set difficulty level to "Normal" at-least (which is recommended). i played hard, and dont tell me what to do

In DE, yes. Remember, the feat I posted was what Revan could do before KotOR. Sure, I agree that Sidious by DE is > Revan, but my whole argument is that he's not >>>>> Revan, more like > Revan.



Really doesn't quite compare to taking out an army of Rakatans with the same attack, like Revan did.

Originally posted by The Planet
In DE, yes. Remember, the feat I posted was what Revan could do before KotOR. Sure, I agree that Sidious by DE is > Revan, but my whole argument is that he's not >>>>> Revan, more like > Revan.
Not saying he >>>> revan, revan is powerful i do not deny, id put him in the top 10 for sure

Originally posted by The Planet

Really doesn't quite compare to taking out an army of Rakatans with the same attack, like Revan did. true but thats because revan turned it to a bigger scale

Originally posted by Kadesh
Well luke stated he knew how to block dark side powers in DE 2 after he had studied from sidious and sidious himself claimed he taught luke too well, That luke knows how to defend against palpatine, O and didnt luke some how discovered a defence against palpatines force storm?

Theres your "evidence"
You better provide me some direct quotes regarding Luke's capability to defend against Sidious's "Deadly Sight" and don't give me theories.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Wrong, sidious had mastered every aspect of the dark side of the force, source? DESB and the dark empire source handbook as well as the comic itself and lets not forget the Audio book
But what does this tells us about Revan's knowledge? Not much has been revealed about Revan's power yet but his knowledge of the dark side powers has been stated to be "immense" in POD Novel, which is good enough evidence.

The definition of word "immense" is: huge: unusually great in size or amount or degree or especially extent or scope.

Originally posted by Kadesh
That ends when i say that it has been proven that sidious mastered everything there was in the dark side of the force.
No this does not ends my point regarding Revan because you don't know much about Revan's knowledge.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Sidious had done the same thing and yet he could invent new powers such as the force storm, the one which tears the fabrics of space and destroyed an entire fleet killing thousands of people
This is surely impressive but can this power be used in a "versus" scenario?

Originally posted by Kadesh
Baseless? That several sources pointed out that he mastered all the dark side techniques? that lightsnake has proven this time and again? That both DESB , the audio book and the handbook stated palpatine knew eveytechnique? Suggestion? go read them
Those sources indicate about Sidious's knowledge but they don't compare Sidious with Revan. Revan also knew huge number of Sith Powers, so he is definately close. Remember that when the word "huge" is used, it means a lot more then many others.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Not when palpatine is declared the most powerful sith and the greatest sith lord by the NEC. And palpatine spent decades mastering the dark side and surpassed every other sithlord including exar kun.
And no one has disputed this fact. But using "time period" in arguements is useless. Marka Ragnos was a Sith Lord for more then 100 years, but this does not means that he knows more about Sith Powers then Sidious. Revan learned lot more then Marka in few years as an example.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Yes and sidious sent an entire fleet consisting of thousands of people to oblivion
Useless arguement in a versus fight.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Learn to debate civily please.
It was what was shown, 3 at a time the dark jedis came out. Why dont prove that an entire army came at that time? hm? *waits for an answer*
Revan was shown killing the "army" 1 by 1 individually
i played hard, and dont tell me what to do
Sorry! if I was "harsh" but you are not telling the truth in this case.

Here is my evidence:

Case 1: At the begining of the fight, a squad of "SF Battle Droids" attacked Revan and they were always in pairs and in the very first scene, four of them attacked us instantly from both sides.

Case 2: Dark Jedi always arrived and attacked us in the form of squad of 3 individuals (as minimum) through-out on the Star Forge. And fighting these Jedi, would provide sufficient time for other Sith Troopers to gather around us in large numbers. And squads after squads of these Dark Jedi (followed by many Sith Troopers) would continue to attack us until we reached Bastilla's position.

Case 3: Large number of "Turrets" were also present in one section of SF that fired on us constantly until they were destroyed.

Case 4: In an another battle with "SF Battle Droids" before confronting Malak, those Droids were being produced in large numbers and attacked Revan from all sides and waves after waves of them continued to attack Revan until Revan destroyed the generators that were constantly producing these Droids.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You better provide me some direct quotes regarding Luke's capability to defend against Sidious's "Deadly Sight" and don't give me theories.
o? when luke told his student "Thats an old sith trick, the holocron back then showed me how to defend it" in DE II and he studied about the holocrons palpatine gave to him. As you were saying?


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

But what does this tells us about Revan's knowledge? Not much has been revealed about Revan's power yet but his knowledge of the dark side powers has been stated to be "immense" in POD Novel, which is good enough evidence.
Not good enough to prove he will win this battle, the clear victor is Palpatine.Palpatines storm alone could tear the fabrics of space, ripping open a wormhole


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


The definition of word "immense" is: huge: unusually great in size or amount or degree or especially extent or scope.
So? Does this compare to a sith lord which is declared the most powerful? Sidious powers were described to be of a monsterous magnitude, and one which could rip the fabrics of space as the book of anger stated
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

No this does not ends my point regarding Revan because you don't know much about Revan's knowledge.
It does, because you have no idea how powerful sidious is by DE
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


This is surely impressive but can this power be used in a "versus" scenario? Yes, he was about to use it on luke an leia when they cut him off from the force, as stated inthe audio book

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD


Those sources indicate about Sidious's knowledge but they don't compare Sidious with Revan. Revan also knew huge number of Sith Powers, so he is definately close. Remember that when the word "huge" is used, it means a lot more then many others.
Um they compared him with every other sith lord, what part of the NEC do you not understand "The most powerful sith lord in history"
Knowing alot does not and will not compare to some one knowing every aspect of the dark side of the force. Clearly in knowledge of powers and range, sidious > revan. Accept it and move on

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Useless arguement in a versus fight.
. Not when its proven that he can use it during battke

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Case 1: At the begining of the fight, a squad of "SF Battle Droids" attacked Revan and they were always in pairs and in the very first scene, four of them attacked us instantly from both sides.
. Not an army am i correct? you fail again

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Case 2: Dark Jedi always arrived and attacked us in the form of squad of 3 individuals (as minimum) through-out on the Star Forge. And fighting these Jedi, would provide ample time for other Sith Soldiers to gather around us in large numbers.
. Um remember its 3 on 3? And did you not mention how powerful revan is? That he can kill one of them so fast and stomp on their ass? Its true i dont deny, especially of his other 2 members could be holding off 2 of them while revan focus on 1, Revan is a brilliant strategist, he wouldnt rush in and keep killing them, he would plan an attack, as he proved in the mandalorian wars.



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Case 3: In an another battle with "SF Battle Droids" before confronting Malak, those Droids were produced in large numbers and attacked Revan from all sides and waves after waves of them continued to attack Revan until Revan destroyed the generators that were constantly producing these Droids. yaha, "driods" not jedis, Vader too got attacked by dozens of soldiers and tanks in Eaw, and yet he pwned them, does it mean hes the best? no hes not.

There is a difference between droids and jedis.

Originally posted by Kadesh
o? when luke told his student "Thats an old sith trick, the holocron back then showed me how to defend it" in DE II and he studied about the holocrons palpatine gave to him. As you were saying?
Fair enough. But since its an OLD Sith Trick, so Revan would possibly knew it as well as he has studied and learned many ancient Sith Powers in his time.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Not good enough to prove he will win this battle, the clear victor is Palpatine. Palpatines storm alone could tear the fabrics of space, ripping open a wormhole
I have said before that DE Sidious has better chance in winning in this fight, since he is most powerful.

Originally posted by Kadesh
So? Does this compare to a sith lord which is declared the most powerful? Sidious powers were described to be of a monsterous magnitude, and one which could rip the fabrics of space as the book of anger stated
Only his one force power is stated to rip the fabrics of space and that is his "Force Storm" and none of the other force powers can do that.

Originally posted by Kadesh
It does, because you have no idea how powerful sidious is by DE
Yes, he was about to use it on luke an leia when they cut him off from the force, as stated inthe audio book
I have studied about DE Sidious and I have never disputed about his immense power, so stop telling me that I don't have any idea.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Um they compared him with every other sith lord, what part of the NEC do you not understand "The most powerful sith lord in history"
They only mentioned that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in history of Star Wars Saga. In "Logical Sense", you can say that his knowledge of Dark Side Powers have surpassed all but it does not indicates "by how much".

Originally posted by Kadesh
Knowing alot does not and will not compare to some one knowing every aspect of the dark side of the force. Clearly in knowledge of powers and range, sidious > revan. Accept it and move on
I agree that Sidious > Revan. But Sidious is not >>> Revan, which was your previous idea.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Not when its proven that he can use it during battke
Good for Sidious but it depends on the factor that how fast he can generate it, because a power of this magnitude definately takes some time to generate.

Revan can also use his super "force storm lightening" against Sidious and kill him and he can generate it in few seconds.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Not an army am i correct? you fail again
Malak used the term "the army of SF Battle Droids" before sending them to fight Revan. So actually you fail miserably here.

And by the way, they were part of the Sith Forces stationed in Star Forge and they count in.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Um remember its 3 on 3? And did you not mention how powerful revan is? That he can kill one of them so fast and stomp on their ass? Its true i dont deny, especially of his other 2 members could be holding off 2 of them while revan focus on 1, Revan is a brilliant strategist, he wouldnt rush in and keep killing them, he would plan an attack, as he proved in the mandalorian wars.
Remember that you said that Sith arrived in one by one fashion. So you fail again.

Originally posted by Kadesh
yaha, "driods" not jedis, Vader too got attacked by dozens of soldiers and tanks in Eaw, and yet he pwned them, does it mean hes the best? no hes not.
So??? your arguement was that Sith arrived in one-on-one fashion. Try again and you will fail again.

Originally posted by Kadesh
There is a difference between droids and jedis.
They were part of "Sith Forces" stationed on Star Forge and I was talking about Sith Forces as a whole (which includes Jedi, Droids and Soldiers alike). They did attacked in large numbers and not in one-on-one fashion as you have so proudly mentioned before.

My next advice is that always try to understand the logic behind a post before replying.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Fair enough. But since its an OLD Sith Trick, so Revan would possibly knew it as well as he has studied and learned many ancient Sith Powers in his time. Proof? Not many sith lords have even heard of deadly sight, had revan knew it, he would have used it since its such an effective ability, Again prove that he knew it and stop giving anecdotes







Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

They only mentioned that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in history of Star Wars Saga. In "Logical Sense", you can say that his knowledge of Dark Side Powers have surpassed all but it does not indicates "by how much".
. Yes, but didnt 2 other books stated that palpatine knew everything about the dark side? that he knew every technique? revan isnt even close. Yes he surpassed all by alot. What part of every technique do you not understand?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I agree that Sidious > Revan. But Sidious is not >>> Revan, which was your previous idea.
. i already agreed sid > revan, see the above
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Good for Sidious but it depends on the factor that how fast he can generate it, because a power of this magnitude definately takes some time to generate..
Force storm can be generated in 1-2 seconds, as DE proved

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Revan can also use his super "force storm lightening" against Sidious and kill him and he can generate it in few seconds.
Not when sidious has other abilities which are far faster like spear of midnight black, electro magnetic torpedo, force drain, crush,

or prehaps i shall make a list
Force Grip
Force Chok
Force Crush
Force Lightning
Force Spark
Force Storm
Force Storm
Force Rage
Force Heal
Force Drain
Death Field
Force Slow
Force Affliction
Force Plague
Force Fear
Force Horror
Force Insanity
Force Destruction
Destruction Orb
Deadly Sight
Drain Knowledge
Force Field
Mind Control
Thought bomb
Force Scream
Spear of midnight black
Electromagnetic torpedo
Sith Alchemy
Torture by chagrin
Force Flight
Force Wound
Mechu-deru
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Malak used the term "the army of SF Battle Droids" before sending them to fight Revan. So actually you fail miserably here.
He referred them to an army because of the number of them that were in the SF, again you fail to prove they all attacked him at once



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Remember that you said that Sith arrived in one by one fashion. So you fail again.

Um i also said 3 by 3 didnt i? and you confirmed it.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

So??? your arguement was that Sith arrived in one-on-one fashion. Try again and you will fail again.
See the above
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

They were part of "Sith Forces" stationed on Star Forge and I was talking about Sith Forces as a whole (which includes Jedi, Droids and Soldiers alike). They did attacked in large numbers and not in one-on-one fashion as you have so proudly mentioned before.
Yes but i have mentioned earlier in groups, you still fail to prove that they attacked him AS an army, as in every single one of them at once in one huge group as you claimed
[

Originally posted by Kadesh
Proof? Not many sith lords have even heard of deadly sight, had revan knew it, he would have used it since its such an effective ability, Again prove that he knew it and stop giving anecdotes
Revan knew large number of ancient force powers and since "deadly sight" is also an OLD Sith Power, so possibly Revan would have learned it. And asking for "proof" in case of Revan is not a good idea, since his information has not been even fully revealed yet. But he did knew a great deal of Dark Side Force Powers.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Yes, but didnt 2 other books stated that palpatine knew everything about the dark side? that he knew every technique? revan isnt even close. Yes he surpassed all by alot. What part of every technique do you not understand?
Why Revan is not close? because you say so?

He is damn close and Sidious did surpassed all but not by a lot.

Originally posted by Kadesh
i already agreed sid > revan, see the above
And that means that Revan is close.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Force storm can be generated in 1-2 seconds, as DE proved
So can Raven's.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Not when sidious has other abilities which are far faster like spear of midnight black, electro magnetic torpedo, force drain, crush,
Many Force Powers can be instantly generated and fired on enemies and Revan knows a good deal of them.

Originally posted by Kadesh
or prehaps i shall make a list
Force Grip
Force Chok
Force Crush
Force Lightning
Force Spark
Force Storm
Force Storm
Force Rage
Force Heal
Force Drain
Death Field
Force Slow
Force Affliction
Force Plague
Force Fear
Force Horror
Force Insanity
Force Destruction
Destruction Orb
Deadly Sight
Drain Knowledge
Force Field
Mind Control
Thought bomb
Force Scream
Spear of midnight black
Electromagnetic torpedo
Sith Alchemy
Torture by chagrin
Force Flight
Force Wound
Mechu-deru
You can make a list of force powers of Sidious because his information is complete. Revan also knew a good deal of force powers and some are:

- Knight Speed
- Master Speed
- Force Wave
- Force Push
- Force Whirlwind
- Force Drain
- Force Immunity
- Force Horror
- Force Insanity
- Force Shock
- Force Heal
- Force Jump
- Mind Control
- Thought Bomb
- Force Affliction
- Force Plague
- Force Lightening
- Force Lightening Storm
- Force Stun
- Force Wound
- Force Choke
- Force Kill
- Destroy Droid

And some additional deadly Sith Powers that have not been revealed yet, as mentioned in POD Novel.

Originally posted by Kadesh
He referred them to an army because of the number of them that were in the SF, again you fail to prove they all attacked him at once
I never said that they all attacked Revan at once. Don't make-up garbage statements. What I said that they attacked Revan in pairs and in the very first scene, 4 of them did attacked Revan from both sides.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Um i also said 3 by 3 didnt i? and you confirmed it.
You first said that they attacked in one by one fashion.

Originally posted by Kadesh
See the above
Baseless arguement and thats it.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Yes but i have mentioned earlier in groups, you still fail to prove that they attacked him AS an army, as in every single one of them at once in one huge group as you claimed
The fight has begun when Revan entered Star Forge. And the Sith Forces were divided in to 3 categories.

- 1st category included a large number of special SF Battle Droids.
- 2nd category included many squads of Dark Jedi and Sith Troopers.
- 3rd category was also of SF Battle Droids that were constantly being generated.

1st Don't use that whole "Sidious is the strongest Sith" its an irrelevant argument here since Revan is a Jedi.

Revans most powerful feat is pushing back and feeding on a planet full of DS energy.

The reason for this soon becomes clear as Revan is almost devoured by primal Sith forces on the world's surface. Revan's will allows him to feed on (and not be consumed by) the power of the dark side. - The Chronicles

and drawing dark side energy from space and using it to over power and dominate the will of many many Jedi at once.

Revan is able to draw upon the dark side energies of the planet below and use it during the battle, destroying the Mandalore and ending the Mandalorian threat. Simultaneously, more and more Jedi, unable to ignore the power emanating from the planet below, become corrupted by its influence. - The Chronicles

And as a Jedi, his power is in fact doubled, then he regains his old memories of all his old Sith knowledge and former lightside mastery. Revan was extremely powerful, I think he could in fact hang with DE Sidious but after a hard fought duel, Revan would possibly lose. But in no way would Revan get WTFPwned like you all are trying to make it out to be.

And stop listing powers, it not only looks stupid but most of the powers you all have down are RPG expansions of each other for example: Force Slow - Force Affliction - Force Plague.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
1st Don't use that whole "Sidious is the strongest Sith" its an irrelevant argument here since Revan is a Jedi.

Ahh, I was waiting for someone to bring this up. The thing is that it only servers to weaken your position significantly. Why? Because Yoda is the strongest Jedi to have ever lived up until ROTS and for even a significant period of time afterwards (see NEGtChrono).

1. Yoda is the strongest Jedi to have ever lived up until Luke and his NJO passe came around.

2. Since you claim that Revan was a Jedi, he is automatically weaker than Yoda, as he lived befor him.

3. Yoda is significantly weaker than DE Sidious. This means that Revan is automatically weaker as well.

So you really just shot yourself in the foot by claiming that Revan is a Jedi, as the bar for Jedi is a LOT lower than the bar for Sith.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Revan knew large number of ancient force powers and since "deadly sight" is also an OLD Sith Power, so possibly Revan would have learned it. And asking for "proof" in case of Revan is not a good idea, since his information has not been even fully revealed yet. But he did knew a great deal of Dark Side Force Powers.
That is not solid enough, PROVE IT, its time to prove up or shut up that he knows that ability
You damm well better show me a quote, phrase,statement from any where that he knew that ability, stop giving anecdotes. By the way, lying fanboys cant save revan this time
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Why Revan is not close? because you say so?

He is damn close and Sidious did surpassed all but not by a lot.
No he is not, sources stated he surpassed other sith lords BY ALOT and revan isnt close, trust me
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And that means that Revan is close.
No hes not


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Many Force Powers can be instantly generated and fired on enemies and Revan knows a good deal of them.
So? sidious would toy with revan with his abilities, look at his force lightning for example, the sheer power behind it
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You can make a list of force powers of Sidious because his information is complete. Revan also knew a good deal of force powers and some are:

- Knight Speed
- Master Speed
- Force Wave
- Force Push
- Force Whirlwind
- Force Drain
- Force Immunity
- Force Horror
- Force Insanity
- Force Shock
- Force Heal
- Force Jump
- Mind Control
- Thought Bomb
- Force Affliction
- Force Plague
- Force Lightening
- Force Lightening Storm
- Force Stun
- Force Wound
- Force Choke
- Force Kill
- Destroy Droid

And some additional deadly Sith Powers that have not been revealed yet, as mentioned in POD Novel.
You are such a n00b, First of all revan does not have some of those powers canocically because its from gameplay and thus are not canon and sidious does because sources stated he knew all techniques
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I never said that they all attacked Revan at once. Don't make-up garbage statements. What I said that they attacked Revan in pairs and in the very first scene, 4 of them did attacked Revan from both sides.
Yes you did, stop contradicting yourself, First you said a whole group of them attacked him, now you say they come 3 by 3.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

You first said that they attacked in one by one fashion.
It was later on that i said 3 by 3 and you confirmed itOriginally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Baseless arguement and thats it.
You are the only one making baseless claims here, You claim revan knows powers and good thing you made a list, because nwo it is refuted because those gameplay powers are not canon
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

The fight has begun when Revan entered Star Forge. And the Sith Forces were divided in to 3 categories.

- 1st category included a large number of special SF Battle Droids.
- 2nd category included many squads of Dark Jedi and Sith Troopers.
- 3rd category was also of SF Battle Droids that were constantly being generated. But they did not attack all at once as you claimed they did

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Ahh, I was waiting for someone to bring this up. The thing is that it only servers to weaken your position significantly. Why? Because Yoda is the strongest Jedi to have ever lived up until ROTS and for even a significant period of time afterwards (see NEGtChrono).

1. Yoda is the strongest Jedi to have ever lived up until Luke and his NJO passe came around.

2. Since you claim that Revan was a Jedi, he is automatically weaker than Yoda, as he lived befor him.

3. Yoda is significantly weaker than DE Sidious. This means that Revan is automatically weaker as well.

So you really just shot yourself in the foot by claiming that Revan is a Jedi, as the bar for Jedi is a LOT lower than the bar for Sith.

Exactly, s_w_legend is just showing fanboyism without proving anything

anyways ill be gone for 4 days overseas, dont expect a reply yet to any of your arguements

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Ahh, I was waiting for someone to bring this up. The thing is that it only servers to weaken your position significantly. Why? Because Yoda is the strongest Jedi to have ever lived up until ROTS and for even a significant period of time afterwards (see NEGtChrono).

1. Yoda is the strongest Jedi to have ever lived up until Luke and his NJO passe came around.

2. Since you claim that Revan was a Jedi, he is automatically weaker than Yoda, as he lived befor him.

3. Yoda is significantly weaker than DE Sidious. This means that Revan is automatically weaker as well.

So you really just shot yourself in the foot by claiming that Revan is a Jedi, as the bar for Jedi is a LOT lower than the bar for Sith.


A. You seem to be under the impression that Im taking Revan's side.

B. Had you actually read my post, I said that Revan would lose, so I don't see what "arguement is shot in the foot" since you know: I didn't make one. I was pointing out things wrong/irrelevant/pointless in this topic. And Sidious's little quote is irrelevant and pointless in this case.

C. Yoda is not SIGNIFIGANTLY weaker then DE Sidious, Yoda is still on par with him, since DE Luke is not the most powerful Jedi ever, and he with the aid of Liea was able to beat Sidious, and considering how Yoda disarmed Sidious in the lightsaber portion of the duel (script) and they basically tied in the force. In anther duel I'd say the lightsaber portion would go exactly the same, and Sidous would win a force battle if he can keep his distance and stop Yoda from hacking his head off. But there would be NO WTFpwnage on Palpys part.

D. Now Revan who i believe is on par with Yoda would likely have the same outcome.

E. The bar for the Jedi is lower!? You do realize this is YODA were talking about dont you? I'd very much so wadger that there are NO other Sith Lords that could contend with Yoda EXCEPT for Sidious, so what are you talking about?

And they do attack all at once, you enter a new room and the entire group of about 10 people rush you at once.

Not really, when i played it that time the sith came 3 by 3, if we didnt kill them fast enough then another trio would come, They didnt all come as one as legend claimed. But yes that is pretty remarkable for revan and his pt to fight so many dark jedi.

But for the droids, canonically in star wars one hit of the lightssaber and they are dead

damm where is lightsnake when we need him

Originally posted by Kadesh
That is not solid enough, PROVE IT, its time to prove up or shut up that he knows that ability
You damm well better show me a quote, phrase,statement from any where that he knew that ability, stop giving anecdotes. By the way, lying fanboys cant save revan this time
I don't need to because I used the word "possibly", when making this assumption. And this means that he might have learned it or he might have not.

Originally posted by Kadesh
No he is not, sources stated he surpassed other sith lords BY ALOT and revan isnt close, trust me
Revan is close. Trust me!

Originally posted by Kadesh
No hes not
Yes! he is. Their is a difference between word "close" and "very close". Revan may not be very close to Sidious but he is close. Get this logic in your thick skull.

Originally posted by Kadesh
So? sidious would toy with revan with his abilities, look at his force lightning for example, the sheer power behind it
Wow! you don't get tired of making garbage statements? do you?

Revan's lightening was also very powerful just like that of Sidious. Noob!

Originally posted by Kadesh
You are such a n00b, First of all revan does not have some of those powers canocically because its from gameplay and thus are not canon and sidious does because sources stated he knew all techniques
Noobs like you will never understand the meaning of term "Common Sense". Those Force Powers were mentioned in KOTOR game for a reason and that means that Jedi and Sith of KOTOR time period learned and used those Force Powers. And the force powers that Malak demonstrated in KOTOR game are fully canon and he was once an apprentice of Revan himself, so Revan knew all those Force Powers (that Malak knew) and since Revan had more knowledge of the Force, so he knew some additional Force Powers that even Malak never knew. So, get this logic in you thick skull now.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Yes you did, stop contradicting yourself, First you said a whole group of them attacked him, now you say they come 3 by 3.
I never contradicted my self. Your Noobish approach to things is making this debate worse. I said that those Sith Forces were "over-whelming" in the sense that they were very large in number and Revan had to constantly fight waves after waves of them throughout on Star Forge. And I never said that all of those "Sith Forces" attacked Revan at once.

Originally posted by Kadesh
It was later on that i said 3 by 3 and you confirmed it You are the only one making baseless claims here, You claim revan knows powers and good thing you made a list, because nwo it is refuted because those gameplay powers are not canon
Those gameplay powers also include the list of those force powers that are fully canon. Need I point out those?

Actually "Game Mechanics (feats)" are not canon but "Force Powers" are canon.
Originally posted by Kadesh
But they did not attack all at once as you claimed they did I never said that entire Sith army attacked Revan all by once. Stop making baseless claims.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Exactly, s_w_legend is just showing fanboyism without proving anything

anyways ill be gone for 4 days overseas, dont expect a reply yet to any of your arguements
I use "knowledge" and "reasoning" in my arguements, which you seem to lack.

And you better don't use the word "exactly" because Darth_Glentract's supposition is also wrong.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
A. You seem to be under the impression that Im taking Revan's side.

B. Had you actually read my post, I said that Revan would lose, so I don't see what "arguement is shot in the foot" since you know: I didn't make one. I was pointing out things wrong/irrelevant/pointless in this topic. And Sidious's little quote is irrelevant and pointless in this case.

C. Yoda is not SIGNIFIGANTLY weaker then DE Sidious, Yoda is still on par with him, since DE Luke is not the most powerful Jedi ever, and he with the aid of Liea was able to beat Sidious, and considering how Yoda disarmed Sidious in the lightsaber portion of the duel (script) and they basically tied in the force. In anther duel I'd say the lightsaber portion would go exactly the same, and Sidous would win a force battle if he can keep his distance and stop Yoda from hacking his head off. But there would be NO WTFpwnage on Palpys part.

D. Now Revan who i believe is on par with Yoda would likely have the same outcome.

E. The bar for the Jedi is lower!? You do realize this is YODA were talking about dont you? I'd very much so wadger that there are NO other Sith Lords that could contend with Yoda EXCEPT for Sidious, so what are you talking about?

I think your getting mixed up. ROTS Sidious (whom your referring to in most of this) isn't even in the same league as his DE counterpart. In terms of lightsaber prowess (at least speed) and force power, DE Sidious is heads and shoulders above his ROTS self. So half your argument falls out the window because your referring to the wrong incarnation of Sidious.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Noobs like you will never understand the meaning of term "Common Sense". Those Force Powers were mentioned in KOTOR game for a reason and that means that Jedi and Sith of KOTOR time period learned and used those Force Powers. And the force powers that Malak demonstrated in KOTOR game are fully canon and he was once an apprentice of Revan himself, so Revan knew all those Force Powers (that Malak knew) and since Revan had more knowledge of the Force, so he knew some additional Force Powers that even Malak never knew. So, get this logic in you thick skull now.

Yeah, you guys are syupid, why can't you just get this?

















So... Plageius knew force storm, isn't that cool?

...That was sarcasm.


Why would Revan need to know all of Malaks force moves? It could be as varied as lightsaber styles. Not all apprentices use the same ones as their masters. Also, Malak had plenty of time without Revan to study and had apparently unlocked some of the Star Forges' power.

You can't prove that Revan knows all those abilities, just because in gameplay, Malak uses them sometimes. Also, just a reminder... Revan is a Jedi, and, even if he did know those powers, he wouldn't use them.

While your argument of claiming gameplay doesn't show accurate portrayal of the character's powers, I must disagree to an extent here. We're talking about the prodigal knight Revan here, who is even more powerful than his former evil self. Darth Revan, as we know, has been listed to know many powers (and a good deal of those has been listed already). Lightside Revan, as commented by Revan's former apprentice: the Dark Lord Malak, is greater than Darth Revan. What does this tell you? That Revan must be even stronger in terms of the Light Side of the Force. This connects to KOTOR. Originally, people have claimed that Knights of the Old Republics granted too many powers to Revan. But yet, LS Revan > DS Revan and DS Revan is master of the Dark. Thus, what's the only solution? That is, KOTOR shows accurate uses of the Force by Revan. I'm not saying Revan might know every LS mastered-powered Force move in the game. Yet however, he must know a good deal for him to say he's better than Darth Revan. So while Sidious may all the techniques for the Dark Side, prodigal knight Revan knows a helluva Light Side techniques to contend against this.

And Palpatine knows those lightside techniques too. Big deal

Does he? I thought that Sidious knows all Dark Side techniques, but not all Light Side. And Revan's quite strong with those LS moves to beat someone like Malak and to all of his KOTOR feats.

Of course still Sidious > Revan.

Hey guys, I'm going to make a Sidious respect thread, and hopefully if there really is actually proof for half the stuff people have been saying, that would be the best place to put it.

If gameplay counts, then Revan can only attack every three seconds from a few very limited types of attacks!

Nice try.

Not that I agree with the argument that Revan necessarily has to know all the powers available in the KotOR game, game stats =/ gameplay.

The actual movements of the characters cannot be counted. However, you count the abilities and the feats because it seems probably and likely true. Again, read what I said. If prodigal knight Revan > Darth Revan, then he must know many of the KOTOR LS moves.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
The actual movements of the characters cannot be counted. However, you count the abilities and the feats because it seems probably and likely true. Again, read what I said. If prodigal knight Revan > Darth Revan, then he must know many of the KOTOR LS moves.

You put out a strong argument!

But, to the degree he can use these powers must be questioned. I mean, any 10 year old padawan can execute a force push, just as Yoda does, but that doesn't mean they are of the same caliber.

This wasn't sarcastic, was it?



Well yeah, but since LS Revan > Darth Revan, then the calibur of the Force moves must be definately up there.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Why would Revan need to know all of Malaks force moves? It could be as varied as lightsaber styles. Not all apprentices use the same ones as their masters. Also, Malak had plenty of time without Revan to study and had apparently unlocked some of the Star Forges' power.

You can't prove that Revan knows all those abilities, just because in gameplay, Malak uses them sometimes. Also, just a reminder... Revan is a Jedi, and, even if he did know those powers, he wouldn't use them.
Revan was the one who trained Malak in the ways of the Sith and Malak himself acknowledged this fact. Malak would follow Revan in various worlds that contained secrets of Sith knowledge like a loyal companion and apprentice. Still Revan's knowledge was stated to be greater then that of Malak's for a reason.

After a couple of years, Malak indeed became very powerful but he was not powerful enough to challenge Darth Revan and yet got the title of DLOTS through betrayal. And after becoming DLOTS, Malak wasn't exploring ancient Sith worlds for more knowledge but was more interested in finding Bastilla.

Malak indeed was also exploring the secrets of Star Forge but it was already operational in Revan's time. And Revan too understood Star Forge very well but his aims & plans were different and Malak assumed that Revan was not using Star Forge like he should, so he might not know much about it. But Malak's assumption was totally wrong as Revan was smart enough to make Star Forge operational and avoid the possibilities of being consumed by it as well (because Star Forge was known to consume those who tried to explore its secrets).

Star Forge did enhanced Malak's power (but Malak was too much over-confident about SF priorities and risked something even greater: his personal conciousness) and still what he knew was not enough to defeat Revan so you can assume the reason behind it.

Revan had enough power to destroy an entire army of Rakatans (- this includes Rancors) with some force lightning, it's pretty clear that he's powerful as well as knowledgeable, and this was before KotOR, and judging by what Malak said, Revan was stronger by the end of KotOR than he ever was before.

In fact, I really don't see why people try to state that Revan is an unknown all the time. He's not.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
I think your getting mixed up. ROTS Sidious (whom your referring to in most of this) isn't even in the same league as his DE counterpart. In terms of lightsaber prowess (at least speed) and force power, DE Sidious is heads and shoulders above his ROTS self. So half your argument falls out the window because your referring to the wrong incarnation of Sidious.


I said that, are you sure he's faster? When Sidious dueled Mace he was also described as a blur but this was by Anakin not Liea who could still follow there movements. There's nothing to suggest that he got faster other then Liea not being able to see him, and by this logic your claiming DE Luke is faster then Yoda. Force power as I said DE is better, so my argument still stands.

While I declare Sidious as the better, there is no doubt that these two individuals are two of the finest Jedi/Sith the galaxy has seen. The Prodigal Knight Revan is one of the strongest Jedi of all time, and Sidious is probably THE most powerful Dark Lord in existance. A battle between these greats would be a spectacle, but Sidious comes with the victory, albeit a very difficult fight put up by Revan.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
While I declare Sidious as the better, there is no doubt that these two individuals are two of the finest Jedi/Sith the galaxy has seen. The Prodigal Knight Revan is one of the strongest Jedi of all time, and Sidious is probably THE most powerful Dark Lord in existance. A battle between these greats would be a spectacle, but Sidious comes with the victory, albeit a very difficult fight put up by Revan.
This is my perception as well.

You put it all up in a short paragraph and I appreciate this.

Hey thanks Legend!

Originally posted by General Kenobl
While I declare Sidious as the better, there is no doubt that these two individuals are two of the finest Jedi/Sith the galaxy has seen. The Prodigal Knight Revan is one of the strongest Jedi of all time, and Sidious is probably THE most powerful Dark Lord in existance. A battle between these greats would be a spectacle, but Sidious comes with the victory, albeit a very difficult fight put up by Revan.

Meh, I don't see it being that difficult really. Its no cake walk for sure, but DE Sidious would win rather handily.

Maybe...

You got it all wrong Rev wins... And I'lll explane why... Rev is the Beginer of the New Sith Empire... so tecnicly Sidious would learn the dark side from Revan's apprentices apprentices..... and so on... Revan has a much vaster knowlage even then DE Sidous...

Wow, that was stupidity incarnate

why don't they just ban ppl like you...

Because he saved the SW VS forum!

I think it would be a very tough match, but i think Sidious takes this one. I personally think he is the greatest sith ever. Revan is close, but i think the Emperor would come out with the victory

Originally posted by Darth_Frost
You got it all wrong Rev wins... And I'lll explane why... Rev is the Beginer of the New Sith Empire... so tecnicly Sidious would learn the dark side from Revan's apprentices apprentices..... and so on... Revan has a much vaster knowlage even then DE Sidous...




You do realize that apprentices kill their master when they become more powerful than them, right? Also, Sidious era Sith (Well, post Bane) are more powerful (Chapter 20, ROTS Novelization). Lastly, it would take the worst Sith ever to have not the ambition to become more powerful than their predecessors and not attempt to make new techniques (such as Force Storm).

Also, Sidious (DE and otherwise) has shown much more power than Revan.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I don't need to because I used the word "possibly", when making this assumption. And this means that he might have learned it or he might have not. Its only a possibility yes i dont deny but there is no proof

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Revan is close. Trust me!
. ok sure, how bout this, so close yet so far?



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Wow! you don't get tired of making garbage statements? do you?

Revan's lightening was also very powerful just like that of Sidious. Noob!
. Um no way, sidious could kill an entire room of troopers and still know how to divert his lightning from hitting his men which are with the troopers, N00b
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Noobs like you will never understand the meaning of term "Common Sense". Those Force Powers were mentioned in KOTOR game for a reason and that means that Jedi and Sith of KOTOR time period learned and used those Force Powers. And the force powers that Malak demonstrated in KOTOR game are fully canon and he was once an apprentice of Revan himself, so Revan knew all those Force Powers (that Malak knew) and since Revan had more knowledge of the Force, so he knew some additional Force Powers that even Malak never knew. So, get this logic in you thick skull now.
. Um you fail to prove that revan has them canonically. And malak did not demonstrate much either than drain choke lightning oush and pull, prehaps fear and stasis, The list you have given are utter bull shit in reality. Yes revan knew alot of powers which are still unkown at this point of time, not till kotor 3

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I never contradicted my self. Your Noobish approach to things is making this debate worse. I said that those Sith Forces were "over-whelming" in the sense that they were very large in number and Revan had to constantly fight waves after waves of them throughout on Star Forge. And I never said that all of those "Sith Forces" attacked Revan at once.
. Well good then. because they didnt attack him all at once, and he was with his entire party giving ample time to wtf pwn one of them and help on with his PT members
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Those gameplay powers also include the list of those force powers that are fully canon. Need I point out those?
. yes the powers are canon but did revan canonically learn them? no he didnt, if you are going to use the grid as a source then by right exile shoud > revan

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Actually "Game Mechanics (feats)" are not canon but "Force Powers" are canon.
I never said that entire Sith army attacked Revan all by once. Stop making baseless claims. force powers are canon but revan does not know all of them. Only the ones he has demonstrated in cut scenes and novels are then canon

Revan defeated an entire army of Rakatans and Rancors with a storm of force lightning.

Prove it and prove it was to that scale.

Originally posted by The Planet
PLease JollyJiM, The One would have no reason to lie or exaggerate, he clearly stated that Revan's lightning was able to destroy an entire army of Rakatans and Rancors, to ignore such a thing is complete bias.

FOR KADESH

I understand what you are saying. It's not 100% canonical. Here's what I posted earlier on this. Legend and I have similar viewpoints, but I think here's what he was saying:

General Kenobl, you seem to believe that the number of abilities a force user has determines how powerful they are. Wow, can I say, asinine?

Obviously, if Revan knows Master Speed and Master Valor, this indicates knowledge and strength does it not, oh smart one?

Got your point kenobi, You are prodigal knight right?

Yea

look guys...Revan beat up serously Malak when he was powered by the Star Forge... that amplified his powers like 10x... we can easly assume malak= Dooku... So Dooku 10x... more powerful then Sidious....

Originally posted by Darth_Frost
look guys...Revan beat up serously Malak when he was powered by the Star Forge... that amplified his powers like 10x... we can easly assume malak= Dooku... So Dooku 10x... more powerful then Sidious....
nono no no no



shit shit shit shit shit shit shit shit

yep.... accept it or not it's true...

...you can't say that's not enough....

Darth Frost, come on, 10x dooku? Not even the chosen with his full potential untaped would be able to beat such foe. Ok, the fact he was fighting in the star forge could have give him extra power or maybe extra stamina, but don't exagerate, lol.

k... not 10x but at least 2x....
anyway... revan can beat DE Sidious... Sidious would be more then a powerful foe... but let's face it... Revs stronger...

Fanboyism at its finest.

Revan "stronger" than DE Sidious? That's an inept assertion.

- Labyrinth of Evil states that the Sith have become stronger under Darth Sidious, and that he was the one born to embrace the dark side fully and become its dedicated instrument. That would imply that such a thing doesn't happen often.
- Count Dooku submerged himself in the Force before his fight with Anakin and Obi-Wan, according to the RotS novel, and viewed that Sidious "was beyond power; darkness beyond darkness."

I could cite more, but as The Planet reminded me, I'm supposed to be retired (wouldn't want to pose off of Advent, eh?).

Besides. Sidious WTFpwned a fleet. Where did Revan do anything close?

Originally posted by Gideon
Fanboyism at its finest.

Revan "stronger" than DE Sidious? That's an inept assertion.

- Labyrinth of Evil states that the Sith have become stronger under Darth Sidious, and that he was the one born to embrace the dark side fully and become its dedicated instrument. That would imply that such a thing doesn't happen often.
- Count Dooku submerged himself in the Force before his fight with Anakin and Obi-Wan, according to the RotS novel, and viewed that Sidious "was beyond power; darkness beyond darkness."

I could cite more, but as The Planet reminded me, I'm supposed to be retired (wouldn't want to pose off of Advent, eh?).

Besides. Sidious WTFpwned a fleet. Where did Revan do anything close?

ahm... Rev killed the star Forge(troopers, dark Jedi, Malak, Star Forges defenses all by himself)... an plus he killed the ones army and the dark jedi inside the temple of the Rakata....

anything more you wanna know

Sure, why are you content with ignoring facts?
Revan didn't start a direct line of Sith, Bane did...and it was based entirely upon the apprentice growing stronger. Palpatine was the strongest of these, and managed to get his hands on just about every technique ever known, darkside or light...he studied from the spirits of the Ancients themselves, communed with the Darkside and achieved feats no other Sith were capable of.

Palpatine> revan by a large margin

lol... you are ignoring what I wrote... read every single thing i wrote then say something intelligent...

From Revan's EU profile: "Aboard the Star Forge, Revan almost single-handedly defeated an entire army of Sith and Dark Jedi, a testament to his power in the Force and mastery of lightsaber combat."

Revan's immense mastery of the force was put to test on Star Forge and he proved it by defeating all kinds of odds there. He encountered waves after waves of powerful Battle Droids, Dark Jedi and Elite Sith Troopers and he defeated them all. Malak himself acknowledged this fact and he believed that no matter what he throws at Revan, will not stop him and most it would do will just slow him down. Malak's commander was also aware of this.

That's nice. A pre-DE Sidious wiped out a batallion of Stormtroopers with a single blast of Force Lightning.

A fleet >>>>>> an army.

Sidious also did it with one attack.

Once again, lol, you need to provide me an instance where Revan came close to doing that.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sure, why are you content with ignoring facts?
Revan didn't start a direct line of Sith, Bane did...and it was based entirely upon the apprentice growing stronger. Palpatine was the strongest of these, and managed to get his hands on just about every technique ever known, darkside or light...he studied from the spirits of the Ancients themselves, communed with the Darkside and achieved feats no other Sith were capable of.

Palpatine> revan by a large margin
Palpatine was trained in the Dark Side of the Force and he has mastered it much better then any Sith Lord before him. He was stated to be "master of the dark" and probably knows every Dark Side power. But he is hardly considered to be master of the Light Side.

He never displays his mastery of LS and always relies on his DS powers in battles. Yoda in-fact has demonstrated good mastery of LS.

So, you can't just go on and say that Sidious is master of both LS and DS powers.

Remember that DE Sidious faced DE Luke (who was not at his best yet) and still got defeated. Now, imagine that what LOTF Luke can do against DE Sidious.

And that same DE Luke got his @ss handed to him by the spirit of Exar Kun, who is as powerful as Darth Revan was.

And POST-KOTOR Revan remembers all about his past and thus is master of both LS and DS powers and is easily 3x more powerful then Count Dooku.

You can't just go on and state that DE Sidous is greater then Revan by a large margin and certainly not in case of POST-KOTOR Revan.

Yes! DE Sidious is perhaps 40% more greater then Darth Revan but not in case of POST-KOTOR Revan, who knows all about his PAST and is also master of the Light.

I can safely say that POST-KOTOR (who is more powerful then his DLOTS incarnation) is about 70% of DE Sidious in power. Or DE Sidious is about 30% more powerful then POST-KOTOR Revan.

Sidious DID have most jedi techniques. Remember when they slaughtered the jedi in the tempel? Well there is a reason they didn't blow the tempel up itself, and why they saved the archives from being destroyed....


And after speding countless of years beside the jedi council, I think he would pick up a thing or two. Especially since his quote in ROTS, "one must study all the aspects of the force".

Originally posted by kamikz
Sidious DID have most jedi techniques. Remember when they slaughtered the jedi in the tempel? Well there is a reason they didn't blow the tempel up itself, and why they saved the archives from being destroyed....


And after speding countless of years beside the jedi council, I think he would pick up a thing or two. Especially since his quote in ROTS, "one must study all the aspects of the force".
Many Sith Lords were Jedi before and they were powerful ones. Revan also fits in the same category.

And of-course! when you become a Sith, you have to study the views of Jedi as well so that you can differentiate between the ideologies of the two.

Sidous also learned the ways of the Jedi (like many Sith Lords before him and finally mastered the Dark Side).

Sidious would be good in LS but he never demonstrates his LS capabilities and only uses his DS capabilities in Combat and this is due to the reason that he is more confident in his DS capabilities.

And that temple was raided by Anakin (Darth Vader) and not Sidious.

And also remember that to "study" a thing is actually different from "mastering" it.

First of all, LS techniques are not used in battle, so it's pretty obvious that he doesn't. And if it is simple techniques such as how to defend himself from other force attacks, he does know it!
Thing is that just because he doesn't use it in a battle doesn't mean he cannot at all, then he'd have to use thousands of techniques for us to know that he knew "nearly all".


What? So if the tempel was raided by Anakin, that mean's Sidious can't ever go back there to get the archives? This makes no sense!

Originally posted by kamikz
First of all, LS techniques are not used in battle, so it's pretty obvious that he doesn't. And if it is simple techniques such as how to defend himself from other force attacks, he does know it!
Thing is that just because he doesn't use it in a battle doesn't mean he cannot at all, then he'd have to use thousands of techniques for us to know that he knew "nearly all".


What? So if the tempel was raided by Anakin, that mean's Sidious can't ever go back there to get the archives? This makes no sense!
You are wrong that LS techniques does not include Offensive ones. "Force Push" and "Force Wave" are both offensive LS Techniques. And their are some other offensive LS powers as well.

Yoda (in his offense) used his "Force Push" and send Sidious flying in his office as an example. This shows that LS techiques are not just for defensive purposes.

And by your logic, Jedi can't be offensive. So your logic is flawed.

Dooku also had excess to Jedi Archives but that does not means that he was master of the Light. He in-fact became very powerful when he embraced Dark Side and mastered it.

And of-course, every Sith Lord knows some LS moves. But Mastering LS is a different thing.

WTF? Push and Pull are not LS force powers, they are neutral. Everyone uses them, unless you think Maul was using light side techniques as well.


And Yoda never uses offensive LS techniques, he uses minor offensive force powers, but that's it! LS is not used to attack!


And you're wrong, Jedi are NOT offensive when they use LS powers, LS powers consist of things like heal, support and other stuff, not how to kill someone!


And Sidious spent the rest of his years only studying, Dooku was said by Yoda to be an almost perfect jedi, he became MORE powerful when he embraced the dark side, he was still powerful before!
A quote says he nearly mastered all, and we know Sidious had access to all jedi archives. HE KNOWS IT. THE END!!!!

Originally posted by kamikz
WTF? Push and Pull are not LS force powers, they are neutral. Everyone uses them, unless you think Maul was using light side techniques as well.


And Yoda never uses offensive LS techniques, he uses minor offensive force powers, but that's it! LS is not used to attack!


And you're wrong, Jedi are NOT offensive when they use LS powers, LS powers consist of things like heal, support and other stuff, not how to kill someone!


And Sidious spent the rest of his years only studying, Dooku was said by Yoda to be an almost perfect jedi, he became MORE powerful when he embraced the dark side, he was still powerful before!
A quote says he nearly mastered all, and we know Sidious had access to all jedi archives. HE KNOWS IT. THE END!!!!
I have never heard a thing as "Nuetral Power" but "Universal Power" is more correct word. And "Universal Powers" can fit in both LS and DS categories, depending on the nature of the power.

LS is used to defend and no one doubts it but LS can be used in offensive ways like Yoda did.

And by your logic, Jedi have never killed their opponents? Killing is itself offensive in nature and Jedi do it, when it is required.

Remember that Sidious termed Jedi as "relentless".

And Yoda even held Obi-Wan in very high esteem and that Obi-Won was no match against Sith Lord Dooku.

Dooku himself admits that he became far more powerful then any Jedi in his time after learning a good deal of DS powers.

And every Sith Lord knows some LS moves, so it is not anything special.

Details, details, I couldn't care less!

And since when did Yoda use specifically LS push? There is no difference, if someone uses a force push he uses a force push, not a LS force push or a DS force push!

And READ!!! I said jedi doesn't usually use the force OFFENSIVLEY, I said LS techniques are used for defence and support cases, not to kill someone, I never said jedi didn't kill people, however, they don't use killing force powers. So no, that's not "my logic", more like you missunderstanding.


Lol, so? WTH has this to do with anything? That jedi are more powerful with knowledge of the dark as well, how does that change the fact that Sidious knows many jedi techniques

Well my point is that mastery in LS is different from knowing the ways of the Jedi or understanding Jedi philosophy. Many Sith Lords knew the ways of the Jedi and Sidious is not different.

In canonical sources, Yoda has been stated to be master of the Light and Sidious has been stated to be master of the Dark Side. And this is my view as well.

He has access to Jedi Archives that have been heavily downsized thanks to Exar's attack on Ossus, then downsized again through constant raiding during the Jedi Civil War, then again when the Jedi all but abandoned the the Jedi Temple when Sion and Nihlius attack the Jedi. I'm HEAVILY sceptical that Sidious had some complete understanding and infinite grasp of the Lightside simply from the Jedi Temple's Archives. And also no Jedi spirit would teach him shit, so he's SOL on that account and even still he couldn't even open the Holocrons he had.

You make it seem like it decreased only, the jedi must have developped new techniques and powers over the long, long time of peace, and as long as there are jedi left who knew the old techniques, it is highly possible that they wrote down what they knew as well!



Now I have to sleep! Bye.

Originally posted by Gideon
That's nice. A pre-DE Sidious wiped out a batallion of Stormtroopers with a single blast of Force Lightning.

Sidious also did it with one attack.

Once again, lol, you need to provide me an instance where Revan came close to doing that.


"You used one of those magical powers of yours to kill many of my warriors who were also accompanied by Rancor Beasts. Your power extended from sky and slaughtered all of my scouting parties along with the beasts". - The One

Originally posted by kamikz
You make it seem like it decreased only, the jedi must have developped new techniques and powers over the long, long time of peace, and as long as there are jedi left who knew the old techniques, it is highly possible that they wrote down what they knew as well!



Now I have to sleep! Bye. [/QUOTE

New powers such as...

Originally posted by Darth_Frost
lol... you are ignoring what I wrote... read every single thing i wrote then say something intelligent...

From Revan's EU profile: "Aboard the Star Forge, Revan almost single-handedly defeated an entire army of Sith and Dark Jedi, a testament to his power in the Force and mastery of lightsaber combat."

Revan's immense mastery of the force was put to test on Star Forge and he proved it by defeating all kinds of odds there. He encountered waves after waves of powerful Battle Droids, Dark Jedi and Elite Sith Troopers and he defeated them all. Malak himself acknowledged this fact and he believed that no matter what he throws at Revan, will not stop him and most it would do will just slow him down. Malak's commander was also aware of this.
That's not his EU profile, that's the any-one-edit Wiki profile.

Seriously don't care, Palpatine still>Revan.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
He has access to Jedi Archives that have been heavily downsized thanks to Exar's attack on Ossus, then downsized again through constant raiding during the Jedi Civil War, then again when the Jedi all but abandoned the the Jedi Temple when Sion and Nihlius attack the Jedi. I'm HEAVILY sceptical that Sidious had some complete understanding and infinite grasp of the Lightside simply from the Jedi Temple's Archives. And also no Jedi spirit would teach him shit, so he's SOL on that account and even still he couldn't even open the Holocrons he had.
Untrue, the archives were quite complete....Palpatine is stated to have mastered all the powers, likely from the captive holocrons...thatr and slow tortures

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Untrue, the archives were quite complete....Palpatine is stated to have mastered all the powers, likely from the captive holocrons...thatr and slow tortures true true.

And darth frost. sidious > revan accept it.

wow look at the votes fanboyism and its peak

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
"You used one of those magical powers of yours to kill many of my warriors who were also accompanied by Rancor Beasts. Your power extended from sky and slaughtered all of my scouting parties along with the beasts". - The One

Has that been confirmed to have been a Force attack? Likewise, the question you asked me "well why hasn't Palpatine performed elsewhere?". I ask you the same. If this is a Force based attack and if it is so deadly, why aren't there accounts of him doing it elsewhere? Why not on the Jedi who confronted him? Why not on the Republic fleets he engaged?

Again: A pre-RotJ Sidious wiped out an entire battallion of Stormtroopers with Force lightning. DE Sidious wiped out an entire fleet with a hyperspace wormhole (note: a fleet is much larger than a mere army) and ravaged Coruscant when he kidnapped Luke via the Force.

Revan has not performed any attacks such as this. To assert that he is as powerful as the Emperor - or even extremely close to him may be difficult. I do not deny that Revan has a chance in single combat, but he has not performed any feat as powerful as Sidious's own.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I can safely say that POST-KOTOR (who is more powerful then his DLOTS incarnation) is about 70% of DE Sidious in power. Or DE Sidious is about 30% more powerful then POST-KOTOR Revan.

Math doesn't work like that, Honey.


Any way, Frost, gamespot doesn't count for anything, and I seriously think you misquoted "The Ones" little speech.

Originally posted by Gideon
Has that been confirmed to have been a Force attack? Likewise, the question you asked me "well why hasn't Palpatine performed elsewhere?". I ask you the same. If this is a Force based attack and if it is so deadly, why aren't there accounts of him doing it elsewhere? Why not on the Jedi who confronted him? Why not on the Republic fleets he engaged?

Again: A pre-RotJ Sidious wiped out an entire battallion of Stormtroopers with Force lightning. DE Sidious wiped out an entire fleet with a hyperspace wormhole (note: a fleet is much larger than a mere army) and ravaged Coruscant when he kidnapped Luke via the Force.

Revan has not performed any attacks such as this. To assert that he is as powerful as the Emperor - or even extremely close to him may be difficult. I do not deny that Revan has a chance in single combat, but he has not performed any feat as powerful as Sidious's own.

Exactly, and how is revan going to beat a sith lord who has 90 years of experience and who could move faster than the eye can see

lightsnake did you even bother to vote?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I can safely say that POST-KOTOR (who is more powerful then his DLOTS incarnation) is about 70% of DE Sidious in power. Or DE Sidious is about 30% more powerful then POST-KOTOR Revan.
Well then did you know vader is 80% of sidious? That the novel RODV stated that there may be a day where vader would become as powerful as sidious?

,It doesnt work that way son revan is not even 70% of sidious.

Revan mastered the secret art of blowing up solar systems...your point? The red dot on his forehead proves it.

lol, that was just a joke

Originally posted by Kadesh
Well then did you know vader is 80% of sidious? That the novel RODV stated that there may be a day where vader would become as powerful as sidious?

,It doesnt work that way son revan is not even 70% of sidious.
Hey smart one! Anakin's potential was stated to be reduced to 80% of that of Sidious (after suffering those horrible injuries) and this does not means that he was close to Sidious in actual mastery of the force in ROTS.

And you are referring to ROTS Sidious who is not as powerful as his DE Incarnation.

So better think before you post! Son.

Originally posted by Gideon
Has that been confirmed to have been a Force attack? Likewise, the question you asked me "well why hasn't Palpatine performed elsewhere?". I ask you the same. If this is a Force based attack and if it is so deadly, why aren't there accounts of him doing it elsewhere? Why not on the Jedi who confronted him? Why not on the Republic fleets he engaged?

Again: A pre-RotJ Sidious wiped out an entire battallion of Stormtroopers with Force lightning. DE Sidious wiped out an entire fleet with a hyperspace wormhole (note: a fleet is much larger than a mere army) and ravaged Coruscant when he kidnapped Luke via the Force.
Hey idiot! that was actually a "Force Attack" by Darth Revan and it surely eclipses that Sidious's attack on Clone Troopers.

Because Revan's attack not only caused instant death to many Rakatan warriors but their RANCOR Beasts also got killed. And we surely know that how much deadly are Rancor beasts.

And The One used to term "Force Powers" as "Magical Powers". (as a hint for you)