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pretty simple, which game has the perfect storyline in your eyes. Which game has just the right amount of sense of adventure, thrill, loss, love etc that makes the storyline the best.

Just to be sure, i'm not asking your favourite game as such, i'm asking which game has the best story in your eyes

Feel free to mention your top 10 or how ever many you think you want to recognise

Deus Ex,
Final Fantasy VII,
Realms of the Haunting,
Max Payne (2),
Discworld Noir,
Broken Sword games,
Grim Fandango.

Pretty hard to top Xenogears. THAT, was a convuluted storyline.

Baten Kaitos.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Final Fantasy VII
Xenogears
Lunar 2
Chrono Cross

final fantasy 10
metal gear1 and 3

Originally posted by Infinity
final fantasy 10
metal gear1 and 3

Are you talking about this game or metal gear solid.

http://www.retrogames.co.uk/stock/assets/images/1NES_-_Metal_Gear_US.jpg

metal gear solid and metal gear snake eater aka substinence.

Originally posted by Infinity
metal gear solid and metal gear snake eater aka substinence.

OK that makes since becuase metel gear didn't have much of a story line more of an action type game.

i still think metal gear solid and metal gear 3 had the best stories. and ffx and ffvii

FINAL FANTASY X and snake eater was pretty hot um...T.O.S and um kingdom hearts 1 is pretty great...i will remember more later but those are some great games.

Final Fantasy VI.

Originally posted by Infinity
i still think metal gear solid and metal gear 3 had the best stories. and ffx and ffvii
Metal Gear Solid 3...

There was no Metal Gear 3.

Originally posted by BackFire
Final Fantasy VI.

I liked that game... All the characters looked horrible on the menu pages though... hmm

max payne hands down. revenge stories are dope.

HALO

never played the halo storyline, i heard it kind of sucked though.

halo's story is lame. You're fired.

Legacy of kain series, perhaps the deepest storyline

Myth games...nice storyline

Originally posted by Burning thought
Legacy of kain series, perhaps the deepest storyline

Myth games...nice storyline

Both nice picks.

Spartan take away most of the Halo's disgust

Lets see i like:
Dark Chronicle
Elder Scrolls
Final Fantasy VII
Kingdom Hearts
Kingdom Hearts II
Warcraft
Zelda: Orarina of Time

legend of legaia, nuff said

Halo's storyline is original, but lacking. Also, the games are too damn short.

I think that Metal Gear Solid wins out.

Final Fantasy VII

Resident Evil

Originally posted by Burning thought
Legacy of kain series, perhaps the deepest storyline
RIGHT ON!!!
and FF7 too

No Final Fantasy game can have the greatest plot ever, they all share the same bullshit.

In no particular order:

Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
Legend Of Zelda:Link To The Past
Legend Of Zelda:Ocarina Of Time
Max Payne
Resident Evil
Silent.Hill.2. (No religious stuff from 1 & 3 can even COMPARE to 2!)
Okami
Killer.7.
Devil May Cry

Originally posted by JToTheP
No Final Fantasy game can have the greatest plot ever, they all share the same bullshit. adventure, catastrophe, courage, loss, love, mystery, twists......its a pity that some people just don't like them, really missing out

Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy Tactics
Grandia
Xenogears

Originally posted by Mesirus
adventure, catastrophe, courage, loss, love, mystery, twists......its a pity that some people just don't like them, really missing out

Yeah, too bad I played AND OWN 7,8,9,10, and I'm hopefully getting 3 for Christmas. So I'm aware that I myself hate 7 and 10, and know that 90% of fans of those two hate 8 & 9.

Also, if I like 3, I'm buying 1-6 for GBA.

You can do the same stuff in movies, doesn't make it the best storyline ever.

that really too bad, have the same with with resident evil, no matter how much i try, they just seem like alot of tripe.

FF8 is good, 9 isn't that good, 10 is awesome (Auron is the best character) If i could get my hands on 4 i think I'd like that, never heard much from 1,2,3,5. 6 sounds like aload of tripe too, which is a shame, alot of people love it, i glanced at the plot, sounds like they tried too hard.

streetfighter had the best story line in my opinon

Street Fighter has a storyline?

Originally posted by JToTheP
No Final Fantasy game can have the greatest plot ever, they all share the same bullshit.

In no particular order:

Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
Legend Of Zelda:Link To The Past
Legend Of Zelda:Ocarina Of Time
Max Payne
Resident Evil
Silent.Hill.2. (No religious stuff from 1 & 3 can even COMPARE to 2!)
Okami
Killer.7.
Devil May Cry

And Zelda doesn't...

Final Fantasy VII, Aerith's character pretty much makes the storyline as good as it is.

Metal Gear Solid 2 comes close second.

The Cloud, Zack & Sephiroth thing made the storyline good... Not Aeris.

Cloud is one of the querist characters ive ever seen......."ime a tough little man....let me go sulk in on my own somewhere" sort of thing..is he as grumpy in FF 7 as in Advent children

Originally posted by Burning thought
Cloud is one of the querist characters ive ever seen......."ime a tough little man....let me go sulk in on my own somewhere" sort of thing..is he as grumpy in FF 7 as in Advent children He's not sulky, he's broody, and not really.... he goes insane for a bit though

Originally posted by JToTheP
Ocarina Of Time, going back and forth through time to go through different obstacles? I like the part where you learn the song of storms, the older Link learns it from the guy, who learnt it from the Younger Link, who you got it from the Older Link

Originally posted by JToTheP
Link To The Past, two different worlds separated by a mirror?

Ocarina Of Time, going back and forth through time to go through different obstacles?

You just said that because I called FF bullshit, you know Zelda is one of the best.

Zelda is my favourite game series... Over FF any day.

The story lines of the games are all pretty similar though, they all revolve around a character Link saving the world, fighting Ganon and in the majority you save Zelda somewhere along the line. THe games are beautiful for many reasons but I'm not sure I'd class it's tired storyline as one of them. The way that each of the games has different ways of enhancing the story is good though.

Originally posted by Mesirus
I like the part where you learn the song of storms, the older Link learns it from the guy, who learnt it from the Younger Link, who you got it from the Older Link

The guy in the windmill, and besides Bottom Of The Well is one of the best dungeons in OoT, regardless of having no boss, and not including that damn room with the chest and all the white arms. Also the mummies paralyze Young Link to uselessness. X_X

I liked the Forest Temple... That was my favourite. I hated those Zombies.

I liked...... the witches, as if they didn't know they weren't twins, lol

Favourite dungeon has to be the goron rescue, the fire demon/dragon thing was awesome

zombies......

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic has excellent story.

Some other games with good stories are:

- Resident Evil Series
- Legacy of Kain Series
- Halo Series
- Mafia
- GTA San Andreas
- Dungeon Siege II

Originally posted by Mesirus
I liked...... the witches, as if they didn't know they weren't twins, lol

Favourite dungeon has to be the goron rescue, the fire demon/dragon thing was awesome

zombies......

i have a friend that makes TONS of comics of cartoons, he's made so many i couldn't keep track of waht kind of games he had. i love them

Resident Evil and GRANDIA II

Originally posted by No End N Site
Resident Evil


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA



The Marathon Series. Undeniably the best game (Storywise atleast) Bungie has done.

Metal Gear Solid 2, 3, and 4
Kingdom Hearts
Kingdom Hearts 2
Resident Evil
Final Fantasy VII
Breath of Fire 3
Parasite Eve
Xenosaga Episode 1

Tetris and Pac-Man. Some deep, existential shit right there.

Why do people keep saying Resident Evil? =/

The plothole filled story they had that was thouroughly raped in the ass in RE5 isn't even among the top 100 storylines.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
isn't even among the top 100 storylines.

The same can be said about Mass Effect and Knights of the Old Republic but that doesn't stop people listing it as one of the best video game storylines.

The early REs were pretty strong in the storyline department, even if the later ones were entirely unimpressive.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Why do people keep saying Resident Evil? =/

The plothole filled story they had that was thouroughly raped in the ass in RE5 isn't even among the top 100 storylines. It's all opinion. Just deal with it.

Originally posted by Welt

The early REs were pretty strong in the storyline department, even if the later ones were entirely unimpressive.

I never noticed that the earlier REs were any better when it came to stories. It's probably because the earlier RE games actually felt fresh and even innovative back in the day. Arguably, they also had a better setting.

Originally posted by No End N Site
It's all opinion. Just deal with it.

This. Unless you say something like Tetris or Pac-Man.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I never noticed that the earlier REs were any better when it came to stories. It's probably because the earlier RE games actually felt fresh and even innovative back in the day. Arguably, they also had a better setting.



This. Unless you say something like Tetris or Pac-Man. The thing that makes Tetris and Pac-Man great is, you can make your own story. Tetris fan fics get pretty epic...

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I never noticed that the earlier REs were any better when it came to stories. It's probably because the earlier RE games actually felt fresh and even innovative back in the day. Arguably, they also had a better setting.

The first RE admittingly had a good setting, but it's ruined with plotholes and faggotry. All the RE's after are built upon cliche.

Except Resident Evil 5. I'm pretty sure no other game has a white muscular American romping through Africa, killing black people 131

Originally posted by No End N Site
The thing that makes Tetris and Pac-Man great is, you can make your own story. Tetris fan fics get pretty epic...

Oh yes, Pac-Man would sometimes get pretty terrifying.

Golden Sun games
Deus Ex
Half-life 2 and expansions was epic
Shining Force III
Skies of Arcadia has a great story, if a little cliched, but charming none the less.

Too many candidates really.

Originally posted by No End N Site
It's all opinion. Just deal with it. Some opinions are better than others.

Cannot really comment on RE though. Never gave enough of a shit about the series as a whole.

The entire Mass Effect series as one of mah favorite stories I admit.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Oh yes, Pac-Man would sometimes get pretty terrifying.

ROFL, poor ghost. To be eaten by someone wit...GINGIVITIS...

Originally posted by NemeBro
Some opinions are better than others.
And that's an opinion as well.

crono cross
final fantasy 9
xenogears
xenosaga
vagrant story
mgs1
okami
shadow of destiny

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
The first RE admittingly had a good setting, but it's ruined with plotholes and faggotry. All the RE's after are built upon cliche.


What are these plot holes you speak of ?

Why Crimson Heads won't become Lickers.

Where Barry is in Chris' scenario and where Rebecca is in Jill's scenario.

THE LACK OF TOILETS.

I can't really remember much of the first RE story, but really, the entire RE storyline is swiss cheese

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
Why Crimson Heads won't become Lickers.

actually they do become the lickers

as for the other two thats just stupid because of two things the story is'nt the greatest

and also why the **** are you worried about toilets not like you use them in the game.

ICO/Shadow of The Colossus

MOTHER 1, 2, & 3

Some of you should have no right to even an opinion of what the greatest game storylines are.

Indeed. Bioware fanatics in particular.

Originally posted by Welt
Indeed. Bioware fanatics in particular.

Terribly ironic of you to call anyone a fanatic. At any rate, the only thing I like from Bioware is Mass Effect.

Originally posted by Welt
Indeed. Bioware fanatics in particular. I've been gone for months and this troll is still running around?

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
At any rate, the only thing I like from Bioware is Mass Effect.

Then play more Bioware. :/

Originally posted by Juk3n
Then play more Bioware. :/

Well, to be honest, I kind of liked Icewind Dale. Neverwinter Nights, BG, Dragon Age, The Witcher... these games just failed to grow on me.

-Final Fantasy X
-Freelacer
-Knights of the Old Republic 1
-Mass Effect 1+2
-Metal Gear Solid 4
-Grim Fandango

not to forget the Broken Sword Saga.

Paperboy

Dark Sun: Shattered Lands

Originally posted by NemeBro
I've been gone for months and this troll is still running around?

nebaris has been around almost as much as i have longer i think

Isn't nebaris the SW vs. ******?

yeah

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
yeah Sumthin funny about me girl? estahuh

The Mother and the Metal Gear series were satisfactory.

Shenmue, goddamit.

The Metal Gear storyline sucks, especially MGS4

It's a good thing none of you mentioned Mario or LoZ, cause only an utter retard would suggest those games having the "greatest storyline".

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
The Metal Gear storyline sucks, especially MGS4

It's a good thing none of you mentioned Mario or LoZ, cause only an utter retard would suggest those games having the "greatest storyline".
I happen to agree to a degree. But you sound like a total douche.

If it looks like a douche, and sounds like a douche...

Legend of Zelda
There is no line about it.

Originally posted by NemeBro
If it looks like a douche, and sounds like a douche...

... then it must be Bill O'Reilly.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
... then it must be Bill O'Reilly.

DO IT LIVE!!

Originally posted by No End N Site
DO IT LIVE!!

THE ****ING THING SUCKS!

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
THE ****ING THING SUCKS!



That never gets old.

Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
Some of you should have no right to even an opinion of what the greatest game storylines are.

I know, when you put up a game title as greatest storyline it has to be able to stand up to criticism. An example LoZ is a fun series and I'm a fan of the franchise but there isn't an LoZ game in existence that qualifies for greatest storyline.

MGS doesn't qualify either, way too artificial a story although I was a big fan of MGS 1 as a kid.

Originally posted by Spartan005
HALO

HALO Thank you for eye-socket raping me with an infinitive episode of inaccuracy. Halo is shit.

Originally posted by Allankles
way too artificial a story

Out of curiosity what does this mean?

personally, i like the Kingdom Hearts plotline mhmm
cause even though its really complicated, once you begin to understand it, its really good

Originally posted by Welt
Out of curiosity what does this mean?

Takes itself seriously and yet lacks the self consciousness to recognize that most if not all the dramatic input is pure cheezeball. *Snake puts a gun to his mouth* cue in dramatic music], pure cheese.

It's those kind of disjointed moments, put in to add drama to the story, that make it artificial. A more honest take on these stories would probably reduce the cutscenes by half.

It's a problem you find in a lot of anime too.

Originally posted by Allankles
Takes itself seriously and yet lacks the self consciousness to recognize that most if not all the dramatic input is pure cheezeball. *Snake puts a gun to his mouth* cue in dramatic music], pure cheese.

It's those kind of disjointed moments, put in to add drama to the story, that make it artificial. A more honest take on these stories would probably reduce the cutscenes by half.

It's a problem you find in a lot of anime too.

You can say that again.

Originally posted by Allankles
Takes itself seriously and yet lacks the self consciousness to recognize that most if not all the dramatic input is pure cheezeball. *Snake puts a gun to his mouth* cue in dramatic music], pure cheese.

It's those kind of disjointed moments, put in to add drama to the story, that make it artificial. A more honest take on these stories would probably reduce the cutscenes by half.

It's a problem you find in a lot of anime too. Thats in a lot of different mediums not just anime...

Well that's more a matter of stylistic preference rather than an objective measure of its merit. The fact of the matter is that MGS is, by any standard, a remarkably deep and complex tale that is among the most differentiated stories you can find, anywhere. The differentiating factor alone makes it far more worthy of being in considerating for the greatest video game storyline of all time simply because it sets it so far apart from the other storylines out there. There really aren't many writers at all, whether they're working on videogames, movies, tv shows, books etc. that can even come close to Hideo Kojima in telling such an imaginative, ambitious storyline.

no it isnt, no it isnt, and yes there are.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
no it isnt, no it isnt, and yes there are.

Don't bother.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
and yes there are.

Give me some examples.

oh silly neb

I wouldn't say I was that good though Ages of Omniverseria truly was a remarkable story indeed.

Give me some more examples.

G.I. Joe

Ninja warrior

halo!

need i go on ?

But Halo is for losers and twelve year old boys.

i am neither a loser nor a twelve year old boy so that assertion can not possibly be correct!

Holy shit, how did you reply that quickly!? D=

hax

Also, you have never provided proofs of not being a loser or a twelve year old boy, so my point still stands. 131

Paperboy has the best plot ever

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
halo!


HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

I respect your opinion though =l

Originally posted by Soma Bringer
Well that's more a matter of stylistic preference rather than an objective measure of its merit. The fact of the matter is that MGS is, by any standard, a remarkably deep and complex tale that is among the most differentiated stories you can find, anywhere. The differentiating factor alone makes it far more worthy of being in considerating for the greatest video game storyline of all time simply because it sets it so far apart from the other storylines out there. There really aren't many writers at all, whether they're working on videogames, movies, tv shows, books etc. that can even come close to Hideo Kojima in telling such an imaginative, ambitious storyline.

WUT?! Can you even susbstuntiate that with a single example of any subplot in MGS? You're having a laugh. And cookie cutter baddies giving cookie cutter monologues don't count.

I never considered MGS a game that took itself seriously.

The cheese always came across as intentional to me.

Maybe that's the creators real intent but he doesn't place that awareness into the characters themselves. Snake and co don't break the 4th wall or cut off the villains monologue mid sentence with a bullet (which would be somewhat comedic).

Although (now thinking about it) MGS 3 was quite different from the other MGS games. The Snake v Boss dynamic was treated with more care than any of the other feuds in the series.

Allankles, have you even played these games out of curiosity? Even among its detracters its acknowledged as an extremely differentiated product with an almost incomprehensible plot that sees the word "convoluted" being thrown around almost constantly.

The sheer number of themes and the detail with which it explores these themes is largely unprecedented in any medium of storytelling, let alone when isolating the discussion to video games (Xenogears, Xenosaga, and the Chrono series being the only real exceptions). Movies are generally possessive of nowhere near the scope or detail of a grand story like Metal Gear Solid's, books in general place too high a value on the artistry behind writing, and exploring a general message rather than telling such a masterfully deep, complex tale. TV shows have a lot of potential due to their scope, but even the likes of Lost and Twin Peaks are of nowhere near the detail of something as grand as Metal Gear Solid.

You have the heavily explored theme of the manipulation of soldiers by politicians, and the concept behind "Outer Heaven", a military nation without politics where soldiers were respected and would always have a place in the world.

It explores a large number of themes relating to pacifism, includng the futility of war, the absurdity of nuclear deterrence, the dangers of nuclear weapons in general, the psychological effects of warfare on children and adults, the concept that enemies are only enemies in relative terms, and motivations behind the different lifestyles individuals choose.

It deals with genetics and the moral implications of genetic engineering, how identity can be affected by the philosophies of one's society and the effects of censorship on society, how the time and place one lives in affects their identity and how politics change along with the times, as well as the 'sense' that people die, things move on and times change and that life shouldn't be lived fighting.

That's not to mention the many philosophical and cyberpunk themes that it also happens to explore in great detail, including that of meme theory, social engineering, sociology, artificial intelligence, information control, conspiracy theories, political and military maneuvering, evolution, existentialism, censorship, the manipulation of free will, and the nature of reality.

And the "cookie cutter baddies" and their "cookie cutter monologues" that you cite are often the very mouthpieces with which Hideo Kojima explores these deep themes.

As far as how complex it is, it's not really something that can be so easily explained in a matter of words given the scope and detail of Metal Gear Solid's storyline, and it's largely based around the timing that crucial pieces of information are revealed to the player and the exact manner in which it is told.

Here's one of the cookie cutter monologues that Allankles was talking about.

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nD9HkqWQ7hc&
ltvQ8KLIXuE&

Originally posted by Allankles
Maybe that's the creators real intent but he doesn't place that awareness into the characters themselves. Snake and co don't break the 4th wall or cut off the villains monologue mid sentence with a bullet (which would be somewhat comedic).

Although (now thinking about it) MGS 3 was quite different from the other MGS games. The Snake v Boss dynamic was treated with more care than any of the other feuds in the series. The characters taking themselves so seriously is by itself comedic.

Shake. Speare. crackers

The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker, Majora's Mask, Ocarina of Time. <--All freaking genius plots.
The entire Metroid saga.
Smash bros, for tying together so many different and convoluted plots at all. It doesn't even need to make sense anymore at that point.
Golden Sun
StarCraft
PSYCHONAUTS


In no particular order.

Originally posted by Soma Bringer
Allankles, have you even played these games out of curiosity? Even among its detracters its acknowledged as an extremely differentiated product with an almost incomprehensible plot that sees the word "convoluted" being thrown around almost constantly.

The sheer number of themes and the detail with which it explores these themes is largely unprecedented in any medium of storytelling, let alone when isolating the discussion to video games (Xenogears, Xenosaga, and the Chrono series being the only real exceptions). Movies are generally possessive of nowhere near the scope or detail of a grand story like Metal Gear Solid's, books in general place too high a value on the artistry behind writing, and exploring a general message rather than telling such a masterfully deep, complex tale. TV shows have a lot of potential due to their scope, but even the likes of Lost and Twin Peaks are of nowhere near the detail of something as grand as Metal Gear Solid.

You have the heavily explored theme of the manipulation of soldiers by politicians, and the concept behind "Outer Heaven", a military nation without politics where soldiers were respected and would always have a place in the world.

It explores a large number of themes relating to pacifism, includng the futility of war, the absurdity of nuclear deterrence, the dangers of nuclear weapons in general, the psychological effects of warfare on children and adults, the concept that enemies are only enemies in relative terms, and motivations behind the different lifestyles individuals choose.

It deals with genetics and the moral implications of genetic engineering, how identity can be affected by the philosophies of one's society and the effects of censorship on society, how the time and place one lives in affects their identity and how politics change along with the times, as well as the 'sense' that people die, things move on and times change and that life shouldn't be lived fighting.

That's not to mention the many philosophical and cyberpunk themes that it also happens to explore in great detail, including that of meme theory, social engineering, sociology, artificial intelligence, information control, conspiracy theories, political and military maneuvering, evolution, existentialism, censorship, the manipulation of free will, and the nature of reality.

And the "cookie cutter baddies" and their "cookie cutter monologues" that you cite are often the very mouthpieces with which Hideo Kojima explores these deep themes.

As far as how complex it is, it's not really something that can be so easily explained in a matter of words given the scope and detail of Metal Gear Solid's storyline, and it's largely based around the timing that crucial pieces of information are revealed to the player and the exact manner in which it is told.

None of that makes a good story. You'd be surprised, many writers could quite easily make a story that explores many "difficult" philosophical and moral subjects. That, of course, wouldn't mean that the story would be compelling or interesting.

I find MGS to be convoluted, trite, and, at times, corny as all hell. Call me simple, but I prefer an interesting and compelling storyline to a contorted one that is boring and preachy. If I wanted that, I'd pick up a book by Kafka or Dostoyevsky.

Of course, there are instances where a story is both complicated AND compelling. Such as Master & Margarita by M. Bulgakov. Beats the almighty crap out of MGS, that's for sure.

I can agree with this.

another good storyline i like is for Mass Effect
just cause of the openendedness
theres so many different things that can happen, different people you can choose to kill or spare and all that can and will be transfered onto the next installment in the series

Neb is not gonna like you....

Neb? awebrow

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory

I find MGS to be convoluted, trite, and, at times, corny as all hell. Call me simple, but I prefer an interesting and compelling storyline to a contorted one that is boring and preachy. If I wanted that, I'd pick up a book by Kafka or Dostoyevsky.


Glad I'm not the only one...

MGS is meant to be corny... Kojima does not take it as seriously as you all think he does.

Granted I don't find it deserving of being called the greatest storyline ever but whatever.

Oh, and as for MGS' themes being unprecedented in storyline... That is a factually untrue statement.

Originally posted by NemeBro
MGS is meant to be corny... Kojima does not take it as seriously as you all think he does.

Are you sure about that? And if that is the case, then the delivery sux, imo. Honestly, the characters don't do enough things to relay the message to the players that most of the story is supposed to be taken as a joke. And in the MGS games, you can clearly tell when Kojima wants you to take somthin' lightly or at least to me.

Kojima is a Trolling God.

He dun't care about you or your feelings.

Originally posted by That ACDC Chick
Neb? awebrow

The owner of the sock 'Soma Bringer' (which is a pretty cool reference, granted). He is known to despise non-linear gameplay and player choice games. And in general pretty much all Western RPGs and Bioware games.

Originally posted by No End N Site
Are you sure about that? And if that is the case, then the delivery sux, imo. Honestly, the characters don't do enough things to relay the message to the players that most of the story is supposed to be taken as a joke. And in the MGS games, you can clearly tell when Kojima wants you to take somthin' lightly or at least to me. ?

You do realise one of the bosses is a fat guy on roller skates, right?

Everything from that to Snake's ambiguously gay relationship with Otacon, I do not see how anyone can take it so seriously.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The owner of the sock 'Soma Bringer' (which is a pretty cool reference, granted). He is known to despise non-linear gameplay and player choice games. And in general pretty much all Western RPGs and Bioware games.

I've heard he/she has been making socks for a very long time now. Like 3 years something? Must be a very lonely person.

Or maybe an entire collective of people working to bring down the oppressive totalitarian KMC government under a single name?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Or maybe an entire collective of people working to bring down the oppressive totalitarian KMC government under a single name?

Yes, the voice of the oppressed and the permabanned must be heard.

Originally posted by Soma Bringer
And the "cookie cutter baddies" and their "cookie cutter monologues" that you cite are often the very mouthpieces with which Hideo Kojima explores these deep themes.


That is where you don't get my point. Games like Deus Ex have handled these concepts and with far less words. All those Big Boss clones? They don't amount to 10 minutes of exposition, unless you're just trying to make people roll their eyes.

MGS takes a plot that could be told over a single game and stretches it out to at least 5 games - with the addition of clones, people infected with the consciousness of clones and a prequel about the clone template. Deus Ex did all that and more in 2 games.

We don't need to know about what Liquid wanted or what BB was really about. An idea like the Patriots actually simplifies the mess that is global conflict.

The Splinter Cell universe depicts a more complex world simply by mirroring the real world, which is far more complicated in the areas of global politics than MGS and its Patriots apparently manipulating feuds.

MGS may depict a future world but it also simplifies it with its idealistic leanings.

And Neb, I asked you for a single sub plot you felt was compelling or especially well told, instead you list everything you think MGS addressed.

Originally posted by NemeBro
?

You do realise one of the bosses is a fat guy on roller skates, right?

Everything from that to Snake's ambiguously gay relationship with Otacon, I do not see how anyone can take it so seriously.

That's what I mean, that is clearly funny and I feel like I'm supposed to laugh at that because I believe that Kojima's intention is to be humorous. At least the bit about Fat Man.

I don't take many aspects of the story seriously but I know that MGS's plot is not supposed to be one big joke. That's the problem. I find myself wonderin' alot, was that awkward moment on purpose

I guess at the end of the day, the fact is we look at the game at different points of view so you could be right. Basically, Kojima confuses me...

mgs1 deserves to be in the greatest storyline. it was extremely well executed, the wrest even though having their good moments and general themes can often be overdone or cheesy or needlessly convoluted.

i forgot to add shadow hearts, shin megaten and zone of the enders.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
I've heard he/she has been making socks for a very long time now. Like 3 years something? Must be a very lonely person.

Times that number but 2-3 and yeaah, pretty much.

Originally posted by Allankles
And Neb, I asked you for a single sub plot you felt was compelling or especially well told, instead you list everything you think MGS addressed.

I was originally addressing the depth and complexity behind the story, which lies more in the manner in which the different components of the plot connect together and the intricities of the grand story it has to tell rather than isolated secondary plots, so your request was largely irrelevant to the point I was making, so I felt no need to respond to it.

And really, addressing aspects that I personally found compelling is largely pointless considering that it's a subjective matter that people won't necessarily agree on. Addressing its depth and complexity, which are some of the only real objective measures with which you can judge a storyline, is far more relevant to the topic.



"And cookie cutter baddies giving cookie cutter monologues don't count."

What point were you supposed to be relaying other than the idea that the villains and their monologues belonged to a generic subset?

The villains of a story rarely if ever explore such deep themes in such detail as they do in the MGS games.

So your point was perfectly understood, it just wasn't a very good one.



Deus Ex didn't come anywhere near to exploring so many themes and concepts. Deus Ex explores a number of political themes in some detail as well as a prevalent theme relating to a conspiracy theory that forms the foundations for the plot of both of the games... and that's pretty much it.

It doesn't come close to MGS when you take into account the number of themes and the detail and scope with which they're explored, and it doesn't touch upon the deep philosophical themes that MGS delves into.

And sure, MGS has a plot that could be told in a much smaller amount of time, but unless you're attempting to argue that there's no merit whatsoever in spreading out the content of a story across a certain length so as to enhance the meaning and significance of the themes and content explored, and to balance the timing between which different pieces of information are presented to the player, and that diluting the content into as small a narrative as possible is objectively the only good way to tell a story, then we can move on.



Sure, we don't need to, but unless you're attempting to argue that there's no merit whatsoever in exploring details beyond what we absolutely need to know in a story, and that there's absolutely no merit whatsoever in fleshing out the mindsets of the characters and allowing for deeper exploration of the characters beyond what is absolutely necessary, then we can move on.



The fact that you would use the Splinter Cell series as an example of an especially complex story highlights the fact that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

The Splinter Cell series opens a window into the world of real life politics but it doesn't in any shape or form explore it with anywhere near the detail or scope of real world politics (the only stoies that do would be Suikoden II, III, V, and Xenogears to a small extent). It opens up vague glimpses into the political world to add context to the events of an extraordinarily simplistic story, and that's it.

And nobody argued that the politics themselves were heavily explored in MGS; rather the manipulation of soldiers by politicians and how it formed the basis for the concept of Outer Heaven. The politics played more of a backseat as far as the different themes the game explored go.

You also act as if the manner in which the Patriots controlled and regulated global affairs was left completely unexplained, when everything from its history to the technical specifications of the neural network that came to embody its will was explained in great detail.



Explain.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh, and as for MGS' themes being unprecedented in storyline... That is a factually untrue statement.

I said largely unprecedented. There are exceptions, such as the Chrono, Xenosaga, Xenogears, and likely soon to be the Xenoblade series.

And prove it.

Shakespeare. Unless you're talking about just games, which you didn't seem to be.

Also, exploring themes and concepts do not a good storyline make.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The owner of the sock 'Soma Bringer' (which is a pretty cool reference, granted). He is known to despise non-linear gameplay and player choice games. And in general pretty much all Western RPGs and Bioware games.
and i care because......?

Not one of Shakespeare's works explored such a large number of themes with as much detail as the Metal Gear Solid saga did. They generally lacked the scope that a large saga of games like Metal Gear Solid possesses, and were far more valued for their writing than their storytelling merits.

Also, I know all I've really gone into is MGS's significant level of depth and complexity, but that isn't even touching on some if its greatest strengths, including its truly legendary voice acting, phenomenal music (in both its quality and implementation), excellent writing and dialogue, and a very strong emotive quality throughout the saga.

Originally posted by That ACDC Chick
and i care because......?

BECUASE INTERNETZ IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!! chair



Well firstly MGS has longer to explore such themes than a single play by Shakespeare. Several of his plays played end to end though are not only more engaging and thought-provoking (heck, one is. Theres a reason they've survived and been studied for this long), but explore more relevent themes than Kojima could fit into a male catsuit.

Secondly, you couldn't be more wrong about Shakespeares storytelling merits.

Thirdly, if you're honestly arguing that MGS is better as a whole artistically, then, what the **** is wrong with you?

crackers

Neph, I think I've found a way to get past the non linearity issue I have.

Originally posted by Nephthys
BECUASE INTERNETZ IS SERIOUS BUSINESS!! chair
whatever helps you sleep at night, buddy awehawe

Kyrie's online.