This is not a test

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ThePittman

Shakyamunison
Life is not a test. wink

lord xyz
I agree. happy

dirkdirden
is this a test

usagi_yojimbo

Atlantis001

Mindship
Maybe the statement, "This is not a test," is a test...

King Kandy
Testing, testing... 123.

Jim Reaper
That's a great answer, but mankind likes to complicate things.
In 1990: 70% of Americans beleived that there is an afterlife of some sort. I don't...

Alliance
More Americans beleive in angels than evolution.

Nellinator

debbiejo
Life IS NOT A TEST LIKE THE CHURCH WOULD LIKE YOU TO BELIEVE, life is just the experience of it.

Mindship
Row, row, row your boat
Upon no one's behest
Merrily, merrily,
Merrily, merrily,
Life is not a...a...h'mm

Bardock42
Originally posted by Mindship
Row, row, row your boat
Upon no one's behest
Merrily, merrily,
Merrily, merrily,
Life is not a...a...h'mm

It's actually life is "but" a dream. But hey...whatever rows your boat, eh?

lil bitchiness

xmarksthespot
But it's not a test run.

Alfheim

Lord Urizen
If Life is a Test, how do you get graded ? Can you get extra credit ?

And can you do make -ups ?

lord xyz
Originally posted by Alliance
More Americans beleive in angels than evolution. laughing Bloody hell.

ThePittman
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If Life is a Test, how do you get graded ? Can you get extra credit ?

And can you do make -ups ? laughing

debbiejo
Yes..It's called reincarnation.............hahaha

sithsaber408
Originally posted by Alliance
More Americans beleive in angels than evolution.


Probably because there is more real-world evidence for them. erm


Whilst angels appear to people and save them from time to time, evolution looks foolish when carbon dating says that a living snail is 3,000 years old....

Or when there should be millions of fossils of present, past, and in-between versions of all the creatures on the earth, but there aren't.....

Or when statistics show that there is less than 1% chance the world, with all its self sustaining systems, it's position next to the sun that a few miles one way or the other would burn us to death or freeze us, and our human bodies could be formed by "nothing and time"....


And then an angel appears to them as they pray when in a trapped car about to explode, and pulls them out.... (or some such thing happens to a trusted friend or family member)


And you wonder why they would believe in angels more.

Bardock42
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Probably because there is more real-world evidence for them. erm



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

I like you, man. You make my day.

Marxman
I like to believe that there is an afterlife. It gives me a little hope in this more than hopeless world. But to be honest I have no real evidence for it. I haven't been visited by a dead loved ones. I've had surgery but no out-of-body experience. I've had a couple of dreams with the devil burning my family but not since I was like 7 or 8 after seeing The Exorcist for the first time.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Probably because there is more real-world evidence for them. laughing laughing out loud rolling on floor laughing

debbiejo
angel <----

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Probably because there is more real-world evidence for them. erm

I return after holidaying up and down the Australian coast and this is what I find...

Sorry, but I must admit I laughed hard. So very hard. I know I, for one, have never seen any "real world evidence" for Angels. I know there are people who attribute every good thing to Angels, but honestly, that is like me attributing every good thing that happens in the world to my amazing mental powers, while every bad thing is due to my bastard land lord who steals my newspaper every morning.

And technically "An Angel turned up and pulled Bobby Jon from his burning pickup" is not really "real world evidence."



No, I don't believe life is a test. First if I were to except God is even a little "all knowing" it would make the concept of a test rather absurd and pointless - why go through the testing process if the result is already known?

Likewise, I question fairness - in our mortal world our entire future rarely rests on a single test. I know for some it feels like it does, and failing some high school test is disheartening and they wax "I failed" etc. but it is rarely that bad. I'd have to question the logic of a test one can not question deciding what is going to happen in some infinite after life.

And besides, I prefer to think this life is the vibrant height. It would take away from the importance, the potency of it to think, for me anyway, "this is just a test to prepare me for my real life." There are certainly testing things in the life, chalanges, tribulations, but they only shape and define my path through this life. They are not somehow defining what will happen when I shuffle of the mortal coil. One life, best to make it count, not merely consider it as a stanging ground were a person merely has to meet some criteria and then "BANG!" the real fun begins.

debbiejo
angel <-----

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by debbiejo
angel <-----

angel_not ^ big grin

debbiejo
laughing out loud

Yezzzzzzz I am/and are.......Oooo I said "I AM".......... angel

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by debbiejo
laughing out loud

Yezzzzzzz I am/and are.......Oooo I said "I AM".......... angel

Naturally.

Fatima
umm , if the life is not a test then what is the purpose of our life ..

tallyblack
In my family, each time that a bad thing happen, my mother said: God tests your faith in him!
I also asked: and after the life? it always says: there is death!
And death, it what?
Never answer!
My vicar has great theories on the life after death, but he never says what I want to hear!

I bthink that the life after death, it is with each one to imagine it, most beautiful which is!

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Fatima
umm , if the life is not a test then what is the purpose of our life .. To live?

This sort of mentality is both perplexing and frustrating. If you fail to derive any meaning from life, besides serving your deity, then I feel a great swell of pity for you.

Life is not a prelude.

Fatima
I never said that you shouldnt enjoy your life , or just serve your deity .

But all these purposes are passing ones .All tese purposes come and go , pass up and down .Money comes and goes .Sexual activities cannot continue forever .Health comes and goes .All thse lusts for money ,food and sex cannot answer the individual s questions to himself :
So What ?

Then What ?

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Fatima
I never said that you shouldnt enjoy your life , or just serve your deity .

But all these purposes are passing ones .All tese purposes come and go , pass up and down .Money comes and goes .Sexual activities cannot continue forever .Health comes and goes .All thse lusts for money ,food and sex cannot answer the individual s questions to himself :
So What ?

Then What ? You reduce the complexities and intricacies of living a full and fulfilling life, to seem as if it's insufficient. What exactly do you want?

If you are defining a "purpose" as some sort of overarching preconceived intentions for the human species. There is no grand purpose of humanity, nor does there need to be. We're but small part of a big universe, paradoxically infinitely insignificant to it's greater workings but integral to our own existences.

If you define "purpose" in the sense of personal aims and ambitions, a personal meaning to one's life. Then "god" is not it for myself and many others.

Alfheim
Originally posted by Bardock42
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

I like you, man. You make my day.

Please respond to the rest of his post instead of focusing on the bit you like and ignoring the rest.

muslimscholar
life is a test ur result will deter if u go heaven or hell

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by muslimscholar
life is a test ur result will deter if u go heaven or hell

Where do you get that idea?

muslimscholar
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Where do you get that idea?

its not an idea its a belief of the 3 main religions "Islam, Christianity and Judaism

Nellinator
Shaky: *tosses bait*
muslimscholar: TBA

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
Shaky: *tosses bait*
muslimscholar: TBA

*Puts the worms back in the box*

Nellinator
*Pushes Shaky off pier*

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
*Pushes Shaky off pier*

*Walks on the water and onto the shore* laughing out loud

Nellinator
laughing You can not be defeated can you?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
laughing You can not be defeated can you?

laughing I was just going to let it go, but the walking on water thing popped in my head and made me laugh.

Nellinator
Well, that's good as long as you're not flinching anymore.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
Well, that's good as long as you're not flinching anymore.

If only JIA was here...

Nellinator
Do you miss him? laughing out loud

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
Do you miss him? laughing out loud

Every time. laughing

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Probably because there is more real-world evidence for them. erm



laughing hysterical laughing laughing out loud laughing hysterical laughing laughing out loud






That cheered me up. Thanks. Why do religious people say such stupid things ?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Fatima
umm , if the life is not a test then what is the purpose of our life ..



Enjoyment droolio

sithsaber408
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
laughing hysterical laughing laughing out loud laughing hysterical laughing laughing out loud






That cheered me up. Thanks. Why do religious people say such stupid things ?

Just like all the rest, you read the beginning and skip the rest.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Probably because there is more real-world evidence for them. erm


Whilst angels appear to people and save them from time to time, evolution looks foolish when carbon dating says that a living snail is 3,000 years old....

Or when there should be millions of fossils of present, past, and in-between versions of all the creatures on the earth, but there aren't.....

Or when statistics show that there is less than 1% chance the world, with all its self sustaining systems, it's position next to the sun that a few miles one way or the other would burn us to death or freeze us, and our human bodies could be formed by "nothing and time"....


And then an angel appears to them as they pray when in a trapped car about to explode, and pulls them out.... (or some such thing happens to a trusted friend or family member)


And you wonder why they would believe in angels more.


If evolution is a theory and a flawed, incomplete one at that, and people are experiencing REAL ANGELS in their lives, then as much as you'd like to pretend they aren't there....


those 70% of people will choose to believe in angels and not evolution.

(same as demons in the other thread)

You may argue against God, the Bible, Christ, angels, demons, and anything else that you like, and quote studies and figures.....


but it won't mean jack-shit to those people who have experienced those things to be real in their lives.


If you could, Voltaire and Darwin would have won this debate long ago.

But the real power of God, and his son Jesus who saved us, and the SUPERNATURAL power of the Holy Spirit evident in people today, remains.

Just as it always has, just as it always will.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by sithsaber408
If evolution is a theory and a flawed, incomplete one at that, and people are experiencing REAL ANGELS in their lives, then as much as you'd like to pretend they aren't there....



laughing laughing out loud laughing laughing out loud hysterical laughing out loud laughing hysterical

Shakyamunison
sithsaber40 evolution is as near to fact as we can get.

Jim Reaper
Originally posted by muslimscholar
its not an idea its a belief of the 3 main religions "Islam, Christianity and Judaism

I believe in mermaids and underpants gnomes.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
sithsaber40 evolution is as near to fact as we can get.


laughing


He won't beleive you. Fact is not something religious people take in easily.

sithsaber408
Apparently the americans who believe more in angels than in evolution prefer REAL fact to "as near to fact as we can get".



Carbon dating is innacurate, this is proven, there aren't the abundance of fossils that should be found if evolution was true, and as it stands today, every statistician and scientist will tell you that the world as it is, in perfect balance in it's natural systems of life, has about a 1% chance of "Just happening, just evolving out of empty space."


You know these things Shaky, and when somebody else who knows them THEN sees an angel is it really hard to believe that they believe in angels and not evolution?


More to the point, wouldn't that constitute "real-world evidence" at least to them personally in thier own lives, that angels are real and evolution is still a THEORY.


Yes, of course it would.

debbiejo
It's odd because many will say if your life is a breeze then god must be on your side, but it there is trouble then you are being tested by god.

Then the other belief is If your life is a breeze then you must not be doing gods will because if you are then satan will be making your life hell. You must repent so that god can protect you from him.

Just like the belief that for example: You are trying to get to a meeting and everything is going wrong. You get a flat tire, a ticket, there is an accident that will make you late......One view is You must really try to get to that meeting because satan is trying to make it so you won't show up. He's throwing obstacles in your way.

The other view is, you probably shouldn't go because god is throwing obstacles.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Apparently the americans who believe more in angels than in evolution prefer REAL fact to "as near to fact as we can get".



Carbon dating is innacurate, this is proven, there aren't the abundance of fossils that should be found if evolution was true, and as it stands today, every statistician and scientist will tell you that the world as it is, in perfect balance in it's natural systems of life, has about a 1% chance of "Just happening, just evolving out of empty space."


You know these things Shaky, and when somebody else who knows them THEN sees an angel is it really hard to believe that they believe in angels and not evolution?


More to the point, wouldn't that constitute "real-world evidence" at least to them personally in thier own lives, that angels are real and evolution is still a THEORY.


Yes, of course it would.

I just saw a show the other day on how Darwin was wrong and they showed that Darwin was right. They showed how all those things you are saying are wrong.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Apparently the americans who believe more in angels than in evolution prefer REAL fact to "as near to fact as we can get".



Carbon dating is innacurate, this is proven, there aren't the abundance of fossils that should be found if evolution was true, and as it stands today, every statistician and scientist will tell you that the world as it is, in perfect balance in it's natural systems of life, has about a 1% chance of "Just happening, just evolving out of empty space."


You know these things Shaky, and when somebody else who knows them THEN sees an angel is it really hard to believe that they believe in angels and not evolution?


More to the point, wouldn't that constitute "real-world evidence" at least to them personally in thier own lives, that angels are real and evolution is still a THEORY.


Yes, of course it would.



laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing




It's official Sith...you are the funniest person on these forums. Congrats ! big grin

sithsaber408
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing




It's official Sith...you are the funniest person on these forums. Congrats ! big grin

Maybe, but we'll see. stick out tongue


For real though, you are really that surprised that more American's believe in angels than evolution?


When evolution is a theory.

When they see real angels.

It seems pretty simple to me, and not so terribly "funny".

Alliance
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Apparently the americans who believe more in angels than in evolution prefer REAL fact to "as near to fact as we can get".



Carbon dating is innacurate, this is proven, there aren't the abundance of fossils that should be found if evolution was true, and as it stands today, every statistician and scientist will tell you that the world as it is, in perfect balance in it's natural systems of life, has about a 1% chance of "Just happening, just evolving out of empty space."


You know these things Shaky, and when somebody else who knows them THEN sees an angel is it really hard to believe that they believe in angels and not evolution?


More to the point, wouldn't that constitute "real-world evidence" at least to them personally in thier own lives, that angels are real and evolution is still a THEORY.


Yes, of course it would.
Delusional. If you want to make sensationalist claims and have people whith thier eyes open believe them. PROVIDE EFFING EVIDENCE.

Until then, try reading unbiased sources instead of being breastfed your information

And you dont EFFING know a theory is. You are ignorant. and because of that you can't understand. You are a clown and you sure fulfill the role of one.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Maybe, but we'll see. stick out tongue


For real though, you are really that surprised that more American's believe in angels than evolution?


When evolution is a theory.

When they see real angels.

It seems pretty simple to me, and not so terribly "funny".

There are lots of stupid people in the world, that proves nothing.

BTW I was not calling you stupid. big grin

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Maybe, but we'll see. stick out tongue


For real though, you are really that surprised that more American's believe in angels than evolution?


When evolution is a theory.

When they see real angels.

It seems pretty simple to me, and not so terribly "funny".


LOLOLOLOL....dude, stop ! Ur making my sides hurt ! laughing






Evolution has loads and loads of concrete evidense to support it. Fossils, Carbon Dating, DNA analysis, bone similiarities in species, etc.


Angels are proven because of eye witnesses ? erm --Give me a fkn break. People lie about sh*t they've seen ALL THE TIME, and those who don't lie usually suffer hallucinations.

finti
and from time to time some see pink elephants too............

debbiejo
Only after drugs.

finti
well maybe that explain some about the believers too evil face

debbiejo
It's that holy wine...........

Robtard
Originally posted by sithsaber408
For real though, you are really that surprised that more American's believe in angels than evolution?

Only proves that America has an ever failing education system and fear mongers have greater sway than logic.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
When evolution is a theory.

Do you know what a theory is?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
When they see real angels.

People also have claimed to have seen ghost, vampires, werewolves, leaprachauns, gnomes, hell hounds, aliens and Elvis alive post 8/16/1977. Are you willing to accept their claims as undeniable valid proof to make it fact?

For you to take the stance that evolution will not "cut it" because it is just a theory but accept the sighting of Angels as fact is of incalculable stupidity. Sorry if that sounded harsh, but seriously now.

debbiejo
angel <----

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by sithsaber408
When evolution is a theory.

When they see real angels.Evolution is both theory and fact.

You're willing to accept baseless anecdotes as undeniable incontrovertible proof of angels.

But are unwilling to consider the numerous and varied evidences for evolution.

How amusing.

"They're real to me." Means absolutely nothing whatsoever.

debbiejo
velho

Fatima
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You reduce the complexities and intricacies of living a full and fulfilling life, to seem as if it's insufficient. What exactly do you want?

If you are defining a "purpose" as some sort of overarching preconceived intentions for the human species. There is no grand purpose of humanity, nor does there need to be. We're but small part of a big universe, paradoxically infinitely insignificant to it's greater workings but integral to our own existences.

If you define "purpose" in the sense of personal aims and ambitions, a personal meaning to one's life. Then "god" is not it for myself and many others.


My clear question is (for non-beliver ) if they think that the life is not a test , then they live for what ?what is the purpose of their lifes ?

Dont think that i m attacking them , i just wanna know their belives about the life .becuase i never met befor non-beliver ..

docb77
Life is what you make of it.

So...

If it's a test, may you pass
If it's a game, may you win
If it's an adventure, enjoy it
if it's a trial, endure it

Whatever life is, just make the most of it.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Fatima
My clear question is (for non-beliver ) if they think that the life is not a test , then they live for what ?what is the purpose of their lifes ?

Dont think that i m attacking them , i just wanna know their belives about the life .You got your answer. Life is for living. Everything that encompasses. Originally posted by Fatima
becuase i never met befor non-beliver .. Then you live in a sheltered world.

lord xyz
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Maybe, but we'll see. stick out tongue


For real though, you are really that surprised that more American's believe in angels than evolution?


When evolution is a theory.

When they see real angels.

It seems pretty simple to me, and not so terribly "funny". You think angels are real. laughing

lord xyz
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Just like all the rest, you read the beginning and skip the rest.




If evolution is a theory and a flawed, incomplete one at that, and people are experiencing REAL ANGELS in their lives, then as much as you'd like to pretend they aren't there....


those 70% of people will choose to believe in angels and not evolution.

(same as demons in the other thread)

You may argue against God, the Bible, Christ, angels, demons, and anything else that you like, and quote studies and figures.....


but it won't mean jack-shit to those people who have experienced those things to be real in their lives.


If you could, Voltaire and Darwin would have won this debate long ago.

But the real power of God, and his son Jesus who saved us, and the SUPERNATURAL power of the Holy Spirit evident in people today, remains.

Just as it always has, just as it always will. Faith is not fact, delusions are not evidence and creationists are not scientists. As soon as you realise this you will see the world for what it really is.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If Life is a Test, how do you get graded ? Can you get extra credit ?

And can you do make -ups ?

In my post, I explicitly stated what kind of test it is.

Marxman
Originally posted by finti
and from time to time some see pink elephants too............

Strong faith and prayer can put people in a euphoric state. That's why during those huge revival tent things people who couldn't walk are suddenly are able to walk.

So....maybe it works the same way with seeing things that aren't actually there.

Regret
Originally posted by sithsaber408
Apparently the americans who believe more in angels than in evolution prefer REAL fact to "as near to fact as we can get".



Carbon dating is innacurate, this is proven, there aren't the abundance of fossils that should be found if evolution was true, and as it stands today, every statistician and scientist will tell you that the world as it is, in perfect balance in it's natural systems of life, has about a 1% chance of "Just happening, just evolving out of empty space."


You know these things Shaky, and when somebody else who knows them THEN sees an angel is it really hard to believe that they believe in angels and not evolution?


More to the point, wouldn't that constitute "real-world evidence" at least to them personally in thier own lives, that angels are real and evolution is still a THEORY.


Yes, of course it would. Fact, we are aware of an enormous number of planets. Fact, so far there are a minuscule number of these planets have the possibility of containing life. Any percentage chance we give the possibility of life occurring spontaneously is larger than the fact that we currently have.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by sithsaber408
For real though, you are really that surprised that more American's believe in angels than evolution?

But then apparently a significant portion of Americans believe Saddam was somehow involved in 9/11. The fact a lot of Americans believe in Angels more then evolution is not really a big selling point.

Like trying to sell the intellectual gymnastics of Medieval thinkings:

"Why Mr. Scientist - to your claims I will point out more of the peasantry believe the world is a 2,000 year old flat thing. Otherwise we would fall off."



Like gravity is a theory.



I haven't seen any photographs of angels, or physical evidence of them, and I've never seen one in the flesh (or whatever they are made of), and I don't know anyone who has.

However I know there are people who claim to have - just like people have seen Saints and Mary (thus if we accepts claims it seems the Catholics are correct) God and Jesus (thus if we accept claims it seems the Mormons are correct) Jesus, Angels and ancestors (thus if we accept claims any number of pseudo Christian cults are also correct) and so on.

Angels claims more convincing then evolutionary theory? I think not.



It seems simply funny to me.



I went to the zoo the other day (ok, I'm doing a bit of casual work in their human resources department.) And if I didn't see animals living. Animals are undoubtably alive... are they being tested? I would say not.

We are sentient, is not living a good enough purpose for life? How is it somehow so much more deeper to consider this life merely a test before the next? The next being a removal of all purpose. After all, the afterlife is said to be an eternal paradise or torture - what exact purpose does it serve but for us to just sit around and be eternally happy? I am yet to see a life plan for the afterlife. People here, in the mortal world, say how immortality would be terrible eventually... to be honest I don't know how any afterlife can claim to be different:

Me: "So... I die, get judged and go to heaven... what happens then?"
Somebody: "Well, you are in paradise. Joy and contentment beyond imagining."
Me: "What... forever? What can I achieve in heaven? What is my purpose there other then appreciating how great it is forever and ever?"
Somebody: "Um"

Can't we pursue happiness here? Love? Success? Pleasure? Achievement and respect? Understanding? Contentment? Peace? Legacy? Creation (as in children?) Seems to me there is plenty to do with life without seeing it as a test but rather... a life.

Every person is an individual. Different aims, different needs and wants, different criteria for "having a good life" - to view life as a test implies a success/failure system. It implies a standardisation of "answers" - the need to present that which is correct to "pass" the test. A test by necessity limits individuality.

FeceMan
Originally posted by Regret
Fact, we are aware of an enormous number of planets. Fact, so far there are a minuscule number of these planets have the possibility of containing life. Any percentage chance we give the possibility of life occurring spontaneously is larger than the fact that we currently have.
Actually, since the universe is infinitely vast and in this infinite vastness there are--relatively speaking--an infinite number of planets, and on any of these planets there are a finite number of living beings--as not all the planets are populated--so the population of the universe is zero (as any finite number over infinite is zero, more or less).

Thus, any persons you may encounter--including me--are merely a figment of a "deranged imagination."

Marxman
To call life a test takes purpose away from it, not give it purpose. It just makes this life meaningless, putting emphasis on an existence that no one truly knows is there. The purpose of life is to enjoy it.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by FeceMan
Actually, since the universe is infinitely vast and in this infinite vastness there are--relatively speaking--an infinite number of planets, and on any of these planets there are a finite number of living beings--as not all the planets are populated--so the population of the universe is zero (as any finite number over infinite is zero, more or less).

Thus, any persons you may encounter--including me--are merely a figment of a "deranged imagination."

Ahhh, that quote never grows old. How can one man be so quotable?

docb77
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura

However I know there are people who claim to have - just like people have seen Saints and Mary (thus if we accepts claims it seems the Catholics are correct) God and Jesus (thus if we accept claims it seems the Mormons are correct) Jesus, Angels and ancestors (thus if we accept claims any number of pseudo Christian cults are also correct) and so on.



But the Mormons are correct, Don't you watch South Park?

debbiejo
this is antichrist thinking

Imagine
John Lennon

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by debbiejo
this is antichrist thinking

Imagine
John Lennon

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

John Lennon can be my Antichrist anyday, if that is his message. Seems a lot nicer then most religious ones.

debbiejo
So why do so many people find this offensive in this Christian world? sad

And I don' even want to get into the song "Jeremiah was a bullfrog song"......God's honest truth this was evil.......

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by debbiejo
So why do so many people find this offensive in this Christian world? sad

And I don' even want to get into the song "Jeremiah was a bullfrog song"......God's honest truth this was evil.......

I imagine since it seems, initially, to be saying that Atheists can be happy and good and make a world just as good as those people who do believe there is a heaven above us and one below us.

I mean really - believing people can make the world better for people by themselves? Outrageous. Only a God can do that!

Nellinator
John Lennon's 'God' is just as anti-Christian. Weirdly I like both songs. However, John Lennon, was an idealist, not a realist. Humans are scum by nature. The few good ones cannot cover for all the bad ones.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Nellinator
John Lennon's 'God' is just as anti-Christian. Weirdly I like both songs. However, John Lennon, was an idealist, not a realist. Humans are scum by nature. The few good ones cannot cover for all the bad ones.

I rest my case.

And why should it be seen as "anti-Christian" - it can be anti-all religion. And I find it somewhat... humorous, I must admit - the "idealist not realist" aspect in this context. Would you say you average Theist is more a realist because in opposition they think "Humans are scum by nature"?

Nellinator
'God' is more anti-Christian. 'Imagine' is anti-society, very pro-anarchy actually.

Depends on what you see as an average Theist. I think when people realize that we are generally bad by nature far more progress can take place. When we believe that we are good by nature, we become self-centered and lose grip on the effects of our actions.

xmarksthespot
Hooray for baseless generalisation.

Since when is John Lennon the anti-christ?

office jesus
Originally posted by dirkdirden
is this a test

..Of the emergency Broadcast system. This is only a test. *Sharp intake of breath*

... BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEEEEP.

( It was too easy.. )

office jesus
Originally posted by Nellinator
John Lennon's 'God' is just as anti-Christian. Weirdly I like both songs. However, John Lennon, was an idealist, not a realist. Humans are scum by nature. The few good ones cannot cover for all the bad ones.

Then you suck.

debbiejo
I'm not sure John Lennon was an athiest. Wasn't he just more eastern like beliefs...Well he was married to Yoko.........Hmmmm

But he realized that religion does not bring world peace or people together.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
'God' is more anti-Christian. 'Imagine' is anti-society, very pro-anarchy actually.

Depends on what you see as an average Theist. I think when people realize that we are generally bad by nature far more progress can take place. When we believe that we are good by nature, we become self-centered and lose grip on the effects of our actions.


Dude, you truly need to open your eyes

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Nellinator
'God' is more anti-Christian. 'Imagine' is anti-society, very pro-anarchy actually.

God is a word - it has come to denote a particular deity, but it is a word that can be used for the Islamic deity or the Jewish one.

Imagine seems more to me not to be so much anti-soceity, but anti-all those liquid, contentious things that make people fight and draw them away from unity. Which is more a Buddhist ideal - religion, nations, wealth - striving and fighting for things. Wouldn't it be better to just live as one, in peace? Etc.



Then God is a piece of work. He creates man, gives man free will. BUT WE ARE BAD BY NATURE! We resist our nature to be good people! Logically that seems to suggest... that badness is a fundamental part of us.

But let me guess... despite the fact God is our maker, he isn't responsible for the core of evil that runs our scummy species. Hell, that is like me building a computer that is assured to break down but claiming it is the computers fault.

Me - I don't think humans are either inherently good or bad. I contribute such things to the choices they make in life, things derived from society and so on rather then "we all start out scum and have the option of turning good." We start out raw potential, and either, through actions or intent are good or bad through life. Most people are forever just this side of good, never doing anything that would make me qualify them as "bad by nature" - but some are more one way then another. Some people spend their lives firmly in the "bad" region, while other firmly in the good. I have never seen any reason to think people are scum by nature.

But then again you could say I am a dreamer...

debbiejo
But then again you could say I am a dreamer...

But then youre not only one............ big grin

Nellinator
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Then God is a piece of work. He creates man, gives man free will. BUT WE ARE BAD BY NATURE! We resist our nature to be good people! Logically that seems to suggest... that badness is a fundamental part of us.

But let me guess... despite the fact God is our maker, he isn't responsible for the core of evil that runs our scummy species. Hell, that is like me building a computer that is assured to break down but claiming it is the computers fault.

Me - I don't think humans are either inherently good or bad. I contribute such things to the choices they make in life, things derived from society and so on rather then "we all start out scum and have the option of turning good." We start out raw potential, and either, through actions or intent are good or bad through life. Most people are forever just this side of good, never doing anything that would make me qualify them as "bad by nature" - but some are more one way then another. Some people spend their lives firmly in the "bad" region, while other firmly in the good. I have never seen any reason to think people are scum by nature.

But then again you could say I am a dreamer...
He isn't responsible. The whole story of original sin comes to mind. However, that is a matter we will most likely never agree upon and therefore not worth arguing.

I would say that law has something to do with way people act. A world of anarchy would not end well, I can assure you.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Nellinator
He isn't responsible. The whole story of original sin comes to mind. However, that is a matter we will most likely never agree upon and therefore not worth arguing.

I would say that law has something to do with way people act. A world of anarchy would not end well, I can assure you.

He isn't actually saying "get rid of laws" - getting rid of nations, in things like world federalisation, does not also entail getting rid of laws. Removing nations removes national competition, things like patriotism and "my nation is right no matter what"kind of thinking.

I don't see him saying "lets all be anarchists, its possible if you try." I see him saying "lets get rid of those things that divide us, an just be humans together."

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Nellinator
He isn't responsible. The whole story of original sin comes to mind. However, that is a matter we will most likely never agree upon and therefore not worth arguing.

I would say that law has something to do with way people act. A world of anarchy would not end well, I can assure you. Do you personally not kill people only because the law and the Bible tell you not to? Not steal? Not maim?

debbiejo
I've killed before.......I didn't like it at all........cry

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