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Now, this isn't a spite thread or anything similiar. I'm wondering what ways could be used to kill/immobilize this new "Immortal" Wolverine. Permanently.

A powerful telepath could do a mindwipe destroying every bit of his phsyche, or someone who could manipulate soul (Soul gem anyone?) could potentially destroy his soul.

comments?

I think destroying EVERY cell of his body is the only way, otherwise he'll keep coming back.

Originally posted by Jyppe
Now, this isn't a spite thread or anything similiar. I'm wondering what ways could be used to kill/immobilize this new "Immortal" Wolverine. Permanently.

A powerful telepath could do a mindwipe destroying every bit of his phsyche, or someone who could manipulate soul (Soul gem anyone?) could potentially destroy his soul.

comments?

Immovilize permanently?

Doc Strange could do a bit of soul magic. Or travel through time till before Wolverine was born and do the whole 'pardox' thing.

Wolvie is truly immortal now?

Originally posted by Galan007


Wolvie is truly immortal now?



Bloody annoying.

Let Karnak loose....

Originally posted by Sam Z
I think destroying EVERY cell of his body is the only way, otherwise he'll keep coming back.

That won't cut it.

Originally posted by Soljer
That won't cut it.

What about the S-T-F-F-Y-B-V ?

Couldn't some geneticist invent an antihealingfactor cellular mechanism?

Originally posted by Soljer
That won't cut it.

That will.

Wolverine still needs to breathe...his healing factor's never rendered him immune from drowning, IMHO.

Thor/BRB/Hulk/Someone strong drowns him, then fills his lungs with concrete just to be sure.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Wolverine still needs to breathe...his healing factor's never rendered him immune from drowning, IMHO.

Thor/BRB/Hulk/Someone strong drowns him, then fills his lungs with concrete just to be sure.

Which will kill him. Great.

Doesn't mean he'll stay dead.

Neither will complete cellular destruction, Sam.

You see, Wolverine isn't immortal like an elder of the universe immortal. He can be killed as easily as he ever could. The only difference is that he can COME BACK from the dead as often as he pleases. Something about his destiny, or past, or mutation gives him the ability to CHOOSE to either go 'into the light' or return to the world of the living.

As long as he chooses the latter (and beats a little ghost from his past, Lazaer) he'll come back. Again and again.

So they seriously made Wolvie truly immortal?

Thats the most rediculous thing I've ever heard.
I bet when the fanboys heard that news, they creamed their pants. droolio

Originally posted by Soljer
Which will kill him. Great.

Doesn't mean he'll stay dead.

Neither will complete cellular destruction, Sam.

You see, Wolverine isn't immortal like an elder of the universe immortal. He can be killed as easily as he ever could. The only difference is that he can COME BACK from the dead as often as he pleases. Something about his destiny, or past, or mutation gives him the ability to CHOOSE to either go 'into the light' or return to the world of the living.

As long as he chooses the latter (and beats a little ghost from his past, Lazaer) he'll come back. Again and again.

censored

I swear we should just ban Wolverine fights on this forum. Its impossible to have a decent debate with this character now.

Originally posted by Soljer
Which will kill him. Great.

Doesn't mean he'll stay dead.

Neither will complete cellular destruction, Sam.

You see, Wolverine isn't immortal like an elder of the universe immortal. He can be killed as easily as he ever could. The only difference is that he can COME BACK from the dead as often as he pleases. Something about his destiny, or past, or mutation gives him the ability to CHOOSE to either go 'into the light' or return to the world of the living.

As long as he chooses the latter (and beats a little ghost from his past, Lazaer) he'll come back. Again and again.

now we're just being silly. How can someone "come back" from complete cellular destruction? If wolverine is put into a particle accelerator and every atom is individually smashed into energy and used to power los angeles for a month, there's nothing to come back from.

Also: if he's dead, he's dead. Wolverine can't "come back" from anything if he's a rotting corpse at the bottom of the ocean. dead bodies don't have healing factors.

Originally posted by Galan007
So they seriously made Wolvie truly immortal?

Thats the most rediculous thing I've ever heard.
I bet when the fanboys heard that news, they creamed their pants. droolio

What's so ridiculous about that? Immortality seems like a logical extension of his healing ability on the next level.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
now we're just being silly. How can someone "come back" from complete cellular destruction? If wolverine is put into a particle accelerator and every atom is individually smashed into energy and used to power los angeles for a month, there's nothing to come back from.

Also: if he's dead, he's dead. Wolverine can't "come back" from anything if he's a rotting corpse at the bottom of the ocean. dead bodies don't have healing factors.


I hope you're not expecting comics to make scientific sense

Originally posted by masterbruce
What's so ridiculous about that? Immortality seems like a logical extension of his healing ability on the next level. Ok, when they give Wolverine the ability to CHOOSE whether or not he lives again or stays dead, that qualifies as being absolutley rediculous IMO.

Originally posted by masterbruce
I hope you're not expecting comics to make scientific sense This coming from the guy who was poorly trying to explain astronomy in an Onslaught thread?

Originally posted by Galan007
This coming from the guy who was poorly trying to explain astronomy in an Onslaught thread?
Owned!

Originally posted by Galan007
Ok, when they give Wolverine the ability to CHOOSE whether or not he lives again or stays dead, thats absolutley rediculous.

Co-signed. Where exactly did this immortality occur? I'm aware of the completely BS "healing back from a skeleton" episode, but no "come into the light" nonsense. can someone post an issue or something?

also: I remember thanos turned wolverine's bones to rubber once. how about thanos turns wolverine's body to petroleum, then uses it to fuel the space humvee for a mile or two



Scientific sense? no. Some kind of sense? Yes. Suspension of disbelief has limits. I can accept mutants with healing factors surviving bullet wounds, massive trauma, etc- but I can't buy a "healing factor" allowing wolverine to survive a trip to a black hole or a waltz on the sun.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Co-signed. Where exactly did this immortality occur? I'm aware of the completely BS "healing back from a skeleton" episode, but no "come into the light" nonsense. can someone post an issue or something?

also: I remember thanos turned wolverine's bones to rubber once. how about thanos turns wolverine's body to petroleum, then uses it to fuel the space humvee for a mile or two
It is in the new Wolverine comic (issue 48)

take him apart molecule by molecule...

Originally posted by Soljer
Which will kill him. Great.

Doesn't mean he'll stay dead.

Neither will complete cellular destruction, Sam.

You see, Wolverine isn't immortal like an elder of the universe immortal. He can be killed as easily as he ever could. The only difference is that he can COME BACK from the dead as often as he pleases. Something about his destiny, or past, or mutation gives him the ability to CHOOSE to either go 'into the light' or return to the world of the living.

As long as he chooses the latter (and beats a little ghost from his past, Lazaer) he'll come back. Again and again.

That book only proves that Wolverine can return after being dead, but it doesn't prove that he can regenerate if there is nothing to regenerate from. Imagine he doesn't have adamantium bones. And his body is turned into NOTHING by some powerfull magician or other powerfull being so there is not a single cell left. How will he come back even if he chooses, appear from nowhere?

Originally posted by Sam Z
That book only proves that Wolverine can return after being dead, but it doesn't prove that he can regenerate if there is nothing to regenerate from. Imagine he doesn't have adamantium bones. And his body is turned into NOTHING by some powerfull magician or other powerfull being so there is not a single cell left. How will he come back even if he chooses, appear from nowhere?

I'm envisioning a giant cartoon hand with a pen descending from the heavens and redrawing him on the spot.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
also: I remember thanos turned wolverine's bones to rubber once. how about thanos turns wolverine's body to petroleum, then uses it to fuel the space humvee for a mile or two Thanos turned Wolvie's skeleton into rubber when he had the IG:

http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/3313/thanoswr5.th.jpg

Originally posted by Space M ummy
now we're just being silly. How can someone "come back" from complete cellular destruction? If wolverine is put into a particle accelerator and every atom is individually smashed into energy and used to power los angeles for a month, there's nothing to come back from.

Also: if he's dead, he's dead. Wolverine can't "come back" from anything if he's a rotting corpse at the bottom of the ocean. dead bodies don't have healing factors.

You misunderstand. His immortality has NOTHING to do with his healing factor. It is an immortality of spirit.

Theoretically, even assuming every molecule of his adamantium was obliterated, he would 'appear' somewhere on the planet, and grow bones. Then a nervous system, then circulatory, then muscles, tissues, etc.

His new immortality has nothing to do with his healing factor. It has to do with his spirit.

Also, this was elaborated upon in the latest Wolverine title. It's the one immediately following the 'sentry' fight. I think it's like 43 or something, but I could be mistaken.

Alfheim - Wolverine can still be used as a combatant on these boards, just not in 'to the (permanent) death' fights. Wolverine can still be killed, and he can still be knocked out. Just like always.

And besides, this isn't as incredibly extreme as everyone's making it. Deadpool's immortal, and we can still use him all over the place on the forum. Why? Cause he can still be knocked out, even if he can't be killed.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
I'm envisioning a giant cartoon hand with a pen descending from the heavens and redrawing him on the spot.

More or less. .

Originally posted by grey fox
What about the S-T-F-F-Y-B-V ?

Is no one going to ask what that means?

Originally posted by Soljer
You misunderstand. His immortality has NOTHING to do with his healing factor. It is an immortality of spirit.

Theoretically, even assuming every molecule of his adamantium was obliterated, he would 'appear' somewhere on the planet, and grow bones. Then a nervous system, then circulatory, then muscles, tissues, etc.

His new immortality has nothing to do with his healing factor. It has to do with his spirit. That makes it so much more rediculous.

Originally posted by Galan007
This coming from the guy who was poorly trying to explain astronomy in an Onslaught thread?

LoL. Quote?

Originally posted by Jyppe
LoL. Quote?
Read page 3 and 4
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=431450&perpage=20&pagenumber=3

Originally posted by Soljer


And besides, this isn't as incredibly extreme as everyone's making it. Deadpool's immortal, and we can still use him all over the place on the forum. Why? Cause he can still be knocked out, even if he can't be killed.

Slight difference , Deadpool is a 'Funny' character. Thus his shit is EXPECTED to be over-the-top and 'not-serious' and whats more serious then turning back to normal after being reduced to goop ?

Ok how about this....

Have someone who can astrial project team up with the guy that Wolverine has to fight when he dies. Then when the two of them kill Wolverine again, he stays dead.

Originally posted by grey fox
Slight difference , Deadpool is a 'Funny' character. Thus his shit is EXPECTED to be over-the-top and 'not-serious' and whats more serious then turning back to normal after being reduced to goop ?

I agree. I don't particularly LIKE the fact that Wolverine is not immortal, but I have to accept it, .

It's ridiculous as all hell, I agree. But at least he finally has an excuse for surviving the 'Nitro' incident.

Before it was explained as such, I'd argued against Wolverine being able to heal from a skeleton.

But now? Even if Wolverine's entire anatomy were destroyed?

Well, it seems as if his soul would return to the land of the living, and perhaps take nutrients from the air and the ground in order to begin building the constituent particles needed for his bones, after which his healing factor could take over.

. That's all assumption, though. I'm not sure exactly how Wolverine would revive if his body were molecularly obliterated - but, according to the comic, he would. Somehow. :vomit:

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok how about this....

Have someone who can astrial project team up with the guy that Wolverine has to fight when he dies. Then when the two of them kill Wolverine again, he stays dead.

*nods*

Entirely plausible.

Anyone who could effect Wolverine on a spiritual level could keep him dead.

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
Read page 3 and 4
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=431450&perpage=20&pagenumber=3

I remember that. Comedy GOLD. someone needs to make a masterbruce quote thread archive somewhere.

Btw, it's Aikido, Capoeira & Taekwondo

And you also might have meant Jujutsu, as it's the more known of the 2 (Jujutsu, Jujitsu)
-------------------------
Who's the lowest character who could kill Wolverine permanently?

Originally posted by Jyppe
Btw, it's Aikido, Capoeira & Taekwondo

And you also might have meant Jujutsu, as it's the more known of the 2 (Jujutsu, Jujitsu)
-------------------------
Who's the lowest character who could kill Wolverine permanently?
OFF TOPIC EDIT: Also, Capoeira, Taekwondo, and Aikido are notoriously ineffective in an actual confrontation.

And Jiu Jitsu is a great style when you are fighting one on one, but if you have multiple attackers (which would often be the case in a street scenario), the LAST place you want to be is on the ground. You wrestle with someone on the ground, get an armbar, and all the while someone else comes over and kicks your skull in with steel toed boots.

Krav Maga, Muay Thai, Judo, and Jiu Jitsu would be a more effective combination. Jiu Jitsu only so you learn how NOT to be taken down, rather than learning how to win a fight on the ground. .

ON TOPIC:
Anyone that can kill him "non-permanently" assuming that Wolverine makes the choice to die, or Lazaer actually succeeds in killing him in the after life.

The lowest level character that could kill Wolverine permanently WITHOUT relying on Wolverine's choice or Lazaer?

Not sure. Anyone that could affect that spirit, or astral plane has a good chance, though.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
Wolverine still needs to breathe...his healing factor's never rendered him immune from drowning, IMHO.

Thor/BRB/Hulk/Someone strong drowns him, then fills his lungs with concrete just to be sure.

Actually, I think this is the best idea.

My explanation: When Wolverine's soul comes back to his body, it's lungs are STILL filled with cement. So, he dies again instantly. He comes back, dies again. Comes back, dies again.

A never-ending, vicious cyle of death. This method would work beautifully.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Actually, I think this is the best idea.

My explanation: When Wolverine's soul comes back to his body, it's lungs are STILL filled with cement. So, he dies again instantly. He comes back, dies again. Comes back, dies again.

A never-ending, vicious cyle of death. This method would work beautifully.

Assuming it would work, it still wouldn't kill Wolverine permanently.

He would return to life, asphyxiate, die, return to life, asphyxiate, die, return to life....

He wouldn't be kept permanently dead.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Actually, I think this is the best idea.

My explanation: When Wolverine's soul comes back to his body, it's lungs are STILL filled with cement. So, he dies again instantly. He comes back, dies again. Comes back, dies again.

A never-ending, vicious cyle of death. This method would work beautifully.

you sound like you don't care for wolverine much?

Originally posted by Soljer
OFF TOPIC EDIT: Also, Capoeira, Taekwondo, and Aikido are notoriously ineffective in an actual confrontation.

And Jiu Jitsu is a great style when you are fighting one on one, but if you have multiple attackers (which would often be the case in a street scenario), the LAST place you want to be is on the ground. You wrestle with someone on the ground, get an armbar, and all the while someone else comes over and kicks your skull in with steel toed boots.

Krav Maga, Muay Thai, Judo, and Jiu Jitsu would be a more effective combination. Jiu Jitsu only so you learn how NOT to be taken down, rather than learning how to win a fight on the ground. .



I've had some great experience with ITF taekwondo myself(Not that I've walked around wearing a hockeymask beating people up), but now days I do KickBoxing & Taido (Not for self defence, but I wanted to learn some flips and such)

WTF (World federationship of Taekwondo) is rather useless in a real situation, as it mainly focuses on flashy kicks and doesn't do anything with punches or arms in general. Taekwondo, would be a good choice if you had lot of room to maneuver and didn't had that many opponents.

If you're looking for a self defence art, I'd suggest something simple. Krav Maga or Kickboxing is rather good for a beginner.

Can't really say much about Aikido though. It relies quite a lot on weapons and different locks.

Capoeira is really hard to use in an actual situation as it also relies on very flashy moves and has it's limitations.

IMO nearly all martial arts are good, but some focus on some things better than others.

drowing, putting him in the sun, turning him to stone and shattering him, teleporting his head off, knocking him into space, or simply taking away his powers with leech and killing him.

Originally posted by Soljer
Assuming it would work, it still wouldn't kill Wolverine permanently.

He would return to life, asphyxiate, die, return to life, asphyxiate, die, return to life....

He wouldn't be kept permanently dead.

I never said it would work "permanently". But he would be stuck on a never-ending death-loop.

Originally posted by masterbruce
you sound like you don't care for wolverine much?

Untrue. It tends to be his writers I don't care for at all.

Wolverine? I've always liked him. He's a badass with claws and a healing factor. He gets the job done. What I don't care for are some of the scenarios they (his writers) have him surviving. A lot of them don't make sense, even for Wolverine.

That's my only beef.

A way to kill Wolverine?

Get a good writer.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I never said it would work "permanently". But he would be stuck on a never-ending death-loop.

not neverending. he'd be kept in the loop until the next writer gets around to retconning his immortality away, then it's sweet oblivion for mr. logan.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
drowing, putting him in the sun, turning him to stone and shattering him, teleporting his head off, knocking him into space, or simply taking away his powers with leech and killing him.

None of those would work, as far as we know.

Originally posted by Jyppe
I've had some great experience with ITF taekwondo myself(Not that I've walked around wearing a hockeymask beating people up), but now days I do KickBoxing & Taido (Not for self defence, but I wanted to learn some flips and such)

WTF (World federationship of Taekwondo) is rather useless in a real situation, as it mainly focuses on flashy kicks and doesn't do anything with punches or arms in general. Taekwondo, would be a good choice if you had lot of room to maneuver and didn't had that many opponents.

If you're looking for a self defence art, I'd suggest something simple. Krav Maga or Kickboxing is rather good for a beginner.

Can't really say much about Aikido though. It relies quite a lot on weapons and different locks.

Capoeira is really hard to use in an actual situation as it also relies on very flashy moves and has it's limitations.

IMO nearly all martial arts are good, but some focus on some things better than others.

Capoeira has it's limitations? It's hardly a fighting style!



Sorry, I don't mean to insult or anything, I've just had people, face to face, tell me that it was some kind of AMAZING style that could take anyone. It's pathetic, and it's ANYTHING but effective.

I agree that it's usually not the art, but the practitioner that matters, but (in general), Taekwondo and aikido are pretty useless in street confrontations.

Muay Thai is a vicious striking art, that is ideal for taking on a single or multiple opponents. Krav Maga is similar, but it incorporates 'dirty fighting,' and a ton of other techniques that aren't really 'ring legal.'

Judo is nice, if you need to put someone on their ass, so you can deal with someone else first. And Jiu Jitsu is useful for getting out of holds or takedowns.

That's, mostly, why I believe that a combination looking something like that would be ideal for street confrontations.

For in the ring, though? Enough striking skill to last till the takedown, and then a heavy emphasis on ground work will get you pretty far.

I, myself, train in american boxing and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Couldn't be happier with it, as a hobby.

I'm pretty confident that I'd want to NOT use shoot fighting on the street though.

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
A way to kill Wolverine?

Get a good writer. Nah, that will NEVER happen..

Originally posted by Galan007
Nah, that will NEVER happen..


so, just because wolverine is portrayed differently than you would like, the writers are bad?

Originally posted by Soljer
Capoeira has it's limitations? It's hardly a fighting style!



Sorry, I don't mean to insult or anything, I've just had people, face to face, tell me that it was some kind of AMAZING style that could take anyone. It's pathetic, and it's ANYTHING but effective.

Actually I pretty much agree with you. I never intended anything else. I just didn't want to insult the art THAT much.

As an art, Capoeira resembles more like dancing. The "fights" they have in capoeira are pretty much dance show offs. It's damn good for your body though (a Friend of mine does it)



Pretty much agreed.



Muay Thai is exactly same as Thai boxing I've done in here. I'm not sure where you're from, but AFAIK it's usually called Thai Boxing. What I've seen it only diffeers from Kickboxing, because it uses elbows, knees, you can grab your opponent's leg, and there's Thai wrestling involved.

Yeah, Krav maga isn't a competition art. It's a self defence art. Nothing more.



Couldn't care less about Judo. It's hilarious when some Judokas try to grab and throw a guy and then they get a knee to the face. If a guy has a knife, you don't really want to grab him. There was a video on the internet where (Simulated) a guy attacks 'nother one with a knife in an elevator. First the guy tries to grab the knife guy. He gets hit like 40 times. Then what would happen if he was kicking the guy who attacks with the knife. He doesn't get hit nearly at all. So It's smart to keep your distance against knife wielders.





Lacks kicks though :/
------------------

Now let's get back to the topic.

Originally posted by masterbruce
so, just because wolverine is portrayed differently than you would like, the writers are bad?

Meh, even though I'm defending Wolverine's immortality, I'll be the first to admit it isn't the best writing.

"Wolverine is immortal, now."

"Why?"

"Uhhmm...he chooses to be!"

What?!

A secondary mutation or some such would have made more sense. .

Originally posted by masterbruce
so, just because wolverine is portrayed differently than you would like, the writers are bad? No, look at the changes Wolverine has undergone over the years...

He started out with a kick ass healing factor and a bad attitude which was cool.

But now he has crossed the thin line of comic book rediculousness, in that, he dies if he wants to die, and lives if he wants to live....

Thats just bad judgement on the writers part, and I doubt I am the only person who feels this way.

Originally posted by Jyppe

Muay Thai is exactly same as Thai boxing I've done in here. I'm not sure where you're from, but AFAIK it's usually called Thai Boxing. What I've seen it only diffeers from Kickboxing, because it uses elbows, knees, you can grab your opponent's leg, and there's Thai wrestling involved.

Couldn't care less about Judo. It's hilarious when some Judokas try to grab and throw a guy and then they get a knee to the face. If a guy has a knife, you don't really want to grab him. There was a video on the internet where (Simulated) a guy attacks 'nother one with a knife in an elevator. First the guy tries to grab the knife guy. He gets hit like 40 times. Then what would happen if he was kicking the guy who attacks with the knife. He doesn't get hit nearly at all. So It's smart to keep your distance against knife wielders.

Lacks kicks though :/


Yeah, Muay Thai IS synonymous with Thai boxing, as far as I know.

Also, I didn't mean to use Judo in a knife-defense situation. Nor did I mean to imply that Judo alone was a good self defense art. But you combine Judo with a little bit of boxing, you can take a nice parry into a hip throw or ankle sweep, and put someone on their ass. Stomp their face one time, and move on.

I wouldn't really want to fight someone with a knife period. How do you out box someone that's wielding a blade? And you SURE AS **** don't want to go to the ground with them, then they are just that much closer...

And, Im aware that I lack kicks. I try to cross train with some friends, I have one friend that did some Jeet Kune Do for years, Muay Thai for a couple years, and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for about a single year. He's pretty good about helping me train my kicks. Another that's done Muay Thai for sixteen years and Jiu Jitsu for about four. He's a beast. He whips the rest of us stand up or on the ground. It's hilarious.

When we train, he offers to play 'dummy' for us on the ground, so that we just work positions and the like? He doesn't even try to go with intensity or submit us or anything. No one's caught him in a submission yet.....

Awww, why get back on topic? This one's so much more fun!

We could always swap back to the topic of MasterBruce's dumbshit quotes.

Soljer, why do you always have to diss me?

I actually like this whole new coming back from the dead thing. It makes a lot more sense having him die and come back than to have him survive what he's been surviving lately. Now Wolverine can go back to doing what he does best Getting into fights, kicking ass and getting his ass kicked, and then come back for more.

I like it. This means Wolverine have just officially become the Marvel punching back, because now anybody can kill him any time they feel like it, and they don't have to worry about feeling bad, because to him it's all in a day's work.

Nice. Do I sound like I hate Wolverine? I don't. I just think lately he's become so overrated that he wasn't interesting anymore. For the same reason I stopped reading Superman - if you can shrug off a nuclear explosion and walk away from it like nothing happened - well then where's the excitement, the drama, the nail-biting suspense?

But this seems to me a more acceptable explanation. It also means he can be used in cool ways now. Remember that scene in Highlander II where Sean Connery and Christopher Lambert got riddled with bullets? And then they woke up in the morgue and it was like the whole Trojan Horse thing?

See, Wolverine is perfect for those kind of scenarios.

Cap proved that it's not very difficult to deal with Wolverine. In fact, it's easier with him than with superheroes you have to worry about killing! Just toss a grenade in his direction, wait for the explosion, then walk up and put Logan's body in cuffs and ta-da! One captured mutant bad boy.

So I'm with the most rabid of Wolverine fanboys here: Bring on the immortality! I fact, I feel a little sorry for him, because every writer is gonna wanna see in how many new and interesting ways poor old Logan can be killed...

If I were against someone with a knife, I'd try to keep a leg between him and me. It would be rather difficult for him to attack me directly if he had a boot in his nose everytime he tried something.

I've had some pretty fun with Taido. It's not very practical, but I do Kickboxing for that depoartement. I startted it in order to learn some acrobatics and the flashy kicks. TK-D was little boring for me. I did get a red belt, but then I stopped it.

Have you learned any tricks or something?

-------------------------


guys, let me settle this once and for all





Hulk >>>>> Onslaught >>>>>>> Juggernaut

Originally posted by masterbruce
Soljer, why do you always have to diss me?

Diss you? I'm not dissing you. I'm just saying that your moronic and ridiculous quotes are quite entertaining.

Originally posted by Soljer
Diss you? I'm not dissing you. I'm just saying that your moronic and ridiculous quotes are quite entertaining.

so, calling my opinions and thoughts moronic and ridiculous is NOT dissing me?

Originally posted by Jyppe
If I were against someone with a knife, I'd try to keep a leg between him and me. It would be rather difficult for him to attack me directly if he had a boot in his nose everytime he tried something.

I've had some pretty fun with Taido. It's not very practical, but I do Kickboxing for that depoartement. I startted it in order to learn some acrobatics and the flashy kicks. TK-D was little boring for me. I did get a red belt, but then I stopped it.

Have you learned any tricks or something?


That's what I've always been told. Keep the distance with a leg.

But I spar with some pretty good fighters, and (as I'm primarily a boxer), I've found ways to close the distance to boxing range, clinch range, or even take down range. If I can do that, who is to say that the guy with a knife won't be able to get in closer to me? Or who is to say that he won't go ahead and take a heavy kick to the ribs in order to catch a foot, and stab me twice in the thigh. .

Honestly? I'm a pretty good ground fighter, but if someone DID take me down in a self defense situation? I wouldn't try to pull guard and go for a triangle. I would make three movements: Left arm to face to try to defend against the inevitable hail of punches. Right hand to pocket. Knife to opponents body as many times as possible/needed. Meh.

Tricks? What do you mean, tricks?

Originally posted by masterbruce
so, calling my opinions and thoughts moronic and ridiculous is NOT dissing me?

Nope.

Glad we got that sorted out.

Originally posted by Soljer
Nope.

Glad we got that sorted out.

Galactus.

Originally posted by masterbruce
guys, let me settle this once and for all





Hulk >>>>> Onslaught >>>>>>> Juggernaut

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I mean tricks, like flip, backflip, aerial, butterfly twist etc

I've said it before but I don't think this issue had any thing to do with Wolverine being immortal... or having an immortal soul. It was a surreal, subconscious manifestation created so his conscious mind could cope with death and rebirth. Maybe, Wolverine after experiencing his thought "cool, I'm immortal!" but his hardly a psychologist and I doubt he has the credentials needed to accurately psychoanalyse the experience. Wolverine has had similar experience before Wolverine 48 only Rose and Colossus manifested instead to Jean and Lazaer. His hallucination, and thats what it is, changes with what ever his priorities are and since HoM his subconscious isn't hung up on Rose and he now remembers Lazaer (who before was represented by an entire plethora of dead Wolverine foes).

I'm not say for sure that Wolverine's soul isn't "immortal", maybe it is. He is the reincarnation of The Hand of God and no less then three Japanese Samurai, maybe he is constantly being reincarnated after he dies... who knows but I think people took this issue way to literally.

Originally posted by Jyppe
-------------------

I mean tricks, like flip, backflip, aerial, butterfly twist etc

Oh! Tricking, yeah. I have some friends that do a lot of that, but no. I don't do much. All I can really do are the most simple of tumbling; handsprings and the like. I've never really trained to do any serious tricking, though some of it looks amazing.

Originally posted by Soljer
OFF TOPIC EDIT: Also, Capoeira, Taekwondo, and Aikido are notoriously ineffective in an actual confrontation.

Not sure about Capoeira but I disagree about Taekwondo and Aikido. These martial arts are effective in a street fight. I studied taekwondo for a long time and must say that it's only effective in an actual confrontation if someone who mastered it is fighting.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Not sure about Capoeira but I disagree about Taekwondo and Aikido. These martial arts are effective in a street fight. I studied taekwondo for a long time and must say that it's only effective in an actual confrontation if someone who mastered it is fighting.

To each their own. One of the people I regularly spar with was about to test for his second degree black belt before he came to this University, and I'll admit; I DO kinda fear his kicks. But I can defend against them, and get inside of them. Once I'm inside of them, I can outbox him all day long, AND beat him on the ground. .

Taekwondo, for the most part, has become too "McDojo"-ey, and too much of a sport fighting style. It just ISN'T an effective style, when compared to others.

Originally posted by Soljer
To each their own. One of the people I regularly spar with was about to test for his second degree black belt before he came to this University, and I'll admit; I DO kinda fear his kicks. But I can defend against them, and get inside of them. Once I'm inside of them, I can outbox him all day long, AND beat him on the ground. .

Taekwondo, for the most part, has become too "McDojo"-ey, and too much of a sport fighting style. It just ISN'T an effective style, when compared to others.

It also depends on which taekwondo you are talking about. John Rhee's sucks. WTF is way better. People for some reason usually think that taekwondo is all about kicks, but it also teaches self-defense and different attacks with hands. And it all is well balanced. I personally do not concider myself to be a master, but I know some taekwondo fighters that are ridiculously fast and effective. I think you just got a bad opponent, because there would be no way for you to get inside if he was well trained taekwondo fighter.

Easiest way to kill wolverine is with an anti-PIS cannon.

matter manipulation.

Originally posted by Sam Z
It also depends on which taekwondo you are talking about. John Rhee's sucks. WTF is way better. People for some reason usually think that taekwondo is all about kicks, but it also teaches self-defense and different attacks with hands. And it all is well balanced. I personally do not concider myself to be a master, but I know some taekwondo fighters that are ridiculously fast and effective. I think you just got a bad opponent, because there would be no way for you to get inside if he was well trained taekwondo fighter.

He's good, and I don't remember which federation he was a part of, but I think it was either WTF or ITF. . His kicks are ridiculously fast, and like I said; I'm fearful of them. But if I CAN get inside, his main strategy seems to be "Create distance." Something which I can nullify with a good shoot.

You can't say that there is no way for someone to get inside of a well trained taekwondo fighter's reach. Look at PRIDE and the UFC. Battle-fueled proof, right there.

And Taekwondo itself really DOES primarily focus on the kicks, with a bit of hand work involved as well. But there is, literally NO groundwork in traditional taekwon do. If you are taught any at your dojo, that's because your trainer (sensei? Master? Whatever.) decided to implement some as well.

A pure taekwondo practitioner on the ground? Useless.

Same goes for most stand-up arts. .

Anyways, Im actually off to go train right this moment, so I'll talk to all you good people later.

Originally posted by Soljer
He's good, and I don't remember which federation he was a part of, but I think it was either WTF or ITF. . His kicks are ridiculously fast, and like I said; I'm fearful of them. But if I CAN get inside, his main strategy seems to be "Create distance." Something which I can nullify with a good shoot.

You can't say that there is no way for someone to get inside of a well trained taekwondo fighter's reach. Look at PRIDE and the UFC. Battle-fueled proof, right there.

And Taekwondo itself really DOES primarily focus on the kicks, with a bit of hand work involved as well. But there is, literally NO groundwork in traditional taekwon do. If you are taught any at your dojo, that's because your trainer (sensei? Master? Whatever.) decided to implement some as well.

A pure taekwondo practitioner on the ground? Useless.

Same goes for most stand-up arts. .

Anyways, Im actually off to go train right this moment, so I'll talk to all you good people later.

That's the thing. Experienced taekwondo fighter do not have to create distance, but he is tought to keep distance and attack at the same time making his oppoent efforts to get close and attack useless and IF he does get close that is where hands come in.
On pride or UFC there are usally fighters with mixed martial arts, I only remember few taekwondo fighters participating in the UFC and they all weighted less than 60 kgs (what's important) and weren't that good.
Tekwondo does focus on kicks but as I said it is well balanced with punches. As for self-defence, they don't teach it now but TRADITIONAL karate was designed for korean army and it has self defence as well as groung-fighting. And I was lucky that my master didn't took this elements away from his teaching program.

As for being effective, I simply judge by real life events.

Best way to kill Wolverine?

Take down his fans!

Originally posted by Soljer
To each their own. One of the people I regularly spar with was about to test for his second degree black belt before he came to this University, and I'll admit; I DO kinda fear his kicks. But I can defend against them, and get inside of them. Once I'm inside of them, I can outbox him all day long, AND beat him on the ground. .

Taekwondo, for the most part, has become too "McDojo"-ey, and too much of a sport fighting style. It just ISN'T an effective style, when compared to others.

I agree with this here. I've seen some masters teach for only money and don't care about anything else. If you're going to start Taekwon-do, I'd suggest you should try the different ones. I was quite happy with my TKD as it wasn't WTF (Only kicks etc) It was a good thing that our teacher was an ex-boxer and he focused a lot on the handwork too.

I've seen some of the TKDers which aren't really that good despite they have a 1 dan black belt or so. They try to get points, but in a real fight you wouldn't want to get points, you'd want to Knock the sh*t out of your opponent. They'd need to realize that fighting with legs only isn't really effective nor that high kicks are that useful against someone who knows martial arts himself.

TKD would be VERY efficient in the hands of a skilled opponent.

I feel kinda defenseless when you guy's go on abut how many SD classes you do , me I got nothing. Though to counterbalance that I live in a country where being robbed or even attacked with a weapon is a rarity unless you live in a HEAVILY populated area.

If a guy did come at me with a knife though....

1. Give him my money , hey it's Cash I can get it back easily enough . Better to lose a few green backs then your life.

2. Get the knife out of his hands , I'd pick up the first thing available and crack it over his head or hand until he dropped that sucka. THEN you pick it up and tell him to piss off before ya gut him .

I'm surprised how many people in the net know about martial arts...

Originally posted by Jyppe
I agree with this here. I've seen some masters teach for only money and don't care about anything else. If you're going to start Taekwon-do, I'd suggest you should try the different ones. I was quite happy with my TKD as it wasn't WTF (Only kicks etc) It was a good thing that our teacher was an ex-boxer and he focused a lot on the handwork too.

I've seen some of the TKDers which aren't really that good despite they have a 1 dan black belt or so. They try to get points, but in a real fight you wouldn't want to get points, you'd want to Knock the sh*t out of your opponent. They'd need to realize that fighting with legs only isn't really effective nor that high kicks are that useful against someone who knows martial arts himself.

TKD would be VERY efficient in the hands of a skilled opponent.

Meh, I still stand by the assessment that your time would be better spent learning something else. Considering equal amounts of training, I'd say a Thai boxer would take the TaeKwonDo practitioner pretty often. As would the Jiu Jitsu practitioner. .

Maybe it's just me, .



I've never ACTUALLY been robbed, though I've had a knife pulled on me multiple times. Only ever actually tried to FIGHT the knife once, and I got plenty of cuts from it, .

Meh, seems to me that by the time you find something heavy to crack over the guys head, you'd have gotten stabbed in the kidney.



Shouldn't be. The majority of people have studied at least SOME kind of style at SOME point in their life.

Yeah, I studied Aikido, but I honestly don't remember much of it...if at all.

For me most MAs are useless unless you have someone who knows how to put it to practicle use for defense. You can know every kick in the world but without knowing how to use it. Of course in the right hands any fighting style is dangerous so I guess it just depends on what level you are on.

As most high level learners learn many different styles to counterbalance different actions that could be taken against them.

I have to say, I am getting pretty tired of every TKD black belt thinking they can drop every guy in the room. IMO, it might help you if you get jumped by a guy with a knife, only because you're going to be on your back foot a lot and throwing kicks (which will inevidably lead to getting stabbed in the legs..)

As well as other MMAs, I've done HACA/ARMA (basically western/european armed combat) since I was 14 years old. If someone comes at with you with a knife, and you don't have one yourself, keep your hips back, your head forward, and presuming they're right handed, your left hand out. Everybody knows someone who's either gotten a nail or blade stuck in their hand or foot...and that's essentially what you want to reenact here in a worst case scenario. There aren't any major veins or arteries in your hand, and you can always afford to get surgery to repair the damage you took taking the knife.

The aim is to grab the guy by the wrist of his knife hand, and if that doesn't succeed, take the stab to your hand to prevent damage on your body or any major organs. Sure it'll hurt like a *****, but after words you'll be alive. After you have the guy's wrist, or have taken it in your hand, the object is to either use his momentum to take the knife (which is a bunch of fancy BS that will just get you stabbed) or throw a strong right or elbow into his jaw or nose to get him to back off long enough for you to escape.

If you have a knife as well, and you're not thinking of walking away in this, take the knife in your hand or arm like mentioned, and his right where his left shoulder meets his neck will be open. Drive home the knife there, or if you can, stab him in his armpit. The combination of his lymph nodes being destroyed, possible lung puncture, and bleeding should put him out of the fight for the rest of his life.

Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
I have to say, I am getting pretty tired of every TKD black belt thinking they can drop every guy in the room. IMO, it might help you if you get jumped by a guy with a knife, only because you're going to be on your back foot a lot and throwing kicks (which will inevidably lead to getting stabbed in the legs..)

As well as other MMAs, I've done HACA/ARMA (basically western/european armed combat) since I was 14 years old. If someone comes at with you with a knife, and you don't have one yourself, keep your hips back, your head forward, and presuming they're right handed, your left hand out. Everybody knows someone who's either gotten a nail or blade stuck in their hand or foot...and that's essentially what you want to reenact here in a worst case scenario. There aren't any major veins or arteries in your hand, and you can always afford to get surgery to repair the damage you took taking the knife.

The aim is to grab the guy by the wrist of his knife hand, and if that doesn't succeed, take the stab to your hand to prevent damage on your body or any major organs. Sure it'll hurt like a *****, but after words you'll be alive. After you have the guy's wrist, or have taken it in your hand, the object is to either use his momentum to take the knife (which is a bunch of fancy BS that will just get you stabbed) or throw a strong right or elbow into his jaw or nose to get him to back off long enough for you to escape.

If you have a knife as well, and you're not thinking of walking away in this, take the knife in your hand or arm like mentioned, and his right where his left shoulder meets his neck will be open. Drive home the knife there, or if you can, stab him in his armpit. The combination of his lymph nodes being destroyed, possible lung puncture, and bleeding should put him out of the fight for the rest of his life.

Or I could...ya know . Just give him the cash and cry like a little girl.

Originally posted by grey fox
Or I could...ya know . Just give him the cash and cry like a little girl.

.....

I'd rather lose some cash than lose the function of one of my hands/arms/feet/legs/life.

.

If it was a life or death situation? Sure, take it to the hand.

If it's not? I can get more cash a lot easier than I can get a new hand.

Originally posted by Soljer
.....


.


Hey I have no problem surrendering my masculinity to save my hide.

Originally posted by grey fox
Hey I have no problem surrendering my masculinity to save my hide.

I was agreeing with you. I'd rather lose my wallet than my hand.

Originally posted by Soljer
I was agreeing with you. I'd rather lose my wallet than my hand.
Ahh K

Originally posted by Soljer
Meh, I still stand by the assessment that your time would be better spent learning something else. Considering equal amounts of training, I'd say a Thai boxer would take the TaeKwonDo practitioner pretty often. As would the Jiu Jitsu practitioner. .

Maybe it's just me, .



It's not that black and white. There are lots of different TKDs around and some of them differ dramatically from each other. I've seen lots of Thai boxers with different styles around.

Even though you can easily say a Thai boxer would beat a TKDer who-gets-his-black-belt-in-2-years. Those TKDers suck major ass.

And FYI I do Kickboxing & Taido nowdays. I haven't done TKD in a loong while. Taido's pretty much for the acrobatics and the exercises.

Originally posted by Jyppe
It's not that black and white. There are lots of different TKDs around and some of them differ dramatically from each other. I've seen lots of Thai boxers with different styles around.

Even though you can easily say a Thai boxer would beat a TKDer who-gets-his-black-belt-in-2-years. Those TKDers suck major ass.

And FYI I do Kickboxing & Taido nowdays. I haven't done TKD in a loong while. Taido's pretty much for the acrobatics and the exercises.

I know what you're saying. But you may not be understanding me entirely; I'm not comparing the shoddy McDojo teachings.

I'm saying, that with an equally qualified instructor, and an equal amount of time training, the average Thai Boxer will beat the average TaeKwonDo student more times than not.

As will the average Jiu Jitsu student. .

Originally posted by Soljer
I know what you're saying. But you may not be understanding me entirely; I'm not comparing the shoddy McDojo teachings.

I'm saying, that with an equally qualified instructor, and an equal amount of time training, the average Thai Boxer will beat the average TaeKwonDo student more times than not.

As will the average Jiu Jitsu student. . And like I said it depends on the fighters and their ability to apply what they know fighting who will win. It is never as clear cut as one method beats another some may seem to have certain advantages but they are minimal and not a decideing factor in a fight.

Originally posted by Newjak
And like I said it depends on the fighters and their ability to apply what they know fighting who will win. It is never as clear cut as one method beats another some may seem to have certain advantages but they are minimal and not a decideing factor in a fight.

*sighs*

Yes, the fighter makes the style, not the other way around. But I'm saying if we take two fighters. Equally dedicated. With an equal ease of learning. With 'equal bodies,' and equal training with equivalent instructors, the Thai Boxer will beat out the TKD expert more often than not.

Originally posted by Soljer
*sighs*

Yes, the fighter makes the style, not the other way around. But I'm saying if we take two fighters. Equally dedicated. With an equal ease of learning. With 'equal bodies,' and equal training with equivalent instructors, the Thai Boxer will beat out the TKD expert more often than not. I don't agree with this because fighting is fighting and if you take people of the same calibur then neither will have an advantage over the other. Like I said on paper styles may seem to have some advantages over others but they aren't decideing factors a number of things go into determining a win least of which is styles.

Originally posted by Newjak
I don't agree with this because fighting is fighting and if you take people of the same calibur then neither will have an advantage over the other. Like I said on paper styles may seem to have some advantages over others but they aren't decideing factors a number of things go into determining a win least of which is styles.

You may argue that styles are the LEAST of the things that determine a fight. But you still conceeded that they go into determining a fight.

Hence, if the rest of the deciding factors are equal, it WILL come down to styles, in which case, TKD is inferior to a number of others.

Originally posted by Soljer
You may argue that styles are the LEAST of the things that determine a fight. But you still conceeded that they go into determining a fight.

Hence, if the rest of the deciding factors are equal, it WILL come down to styles, in which case, TKD is inferior to a number of others. Like I said as well minimal and to tell the truth won't be a decidering factor like I said. There are many styles out there and none of them will destroy the next as long as it is used in a smart manner that excerises its strengths which any decent and semi intelligent fighter can do.

So no fighting styles are the least of my concerns when deciding a factor and don't play that important into it.

You still aren't paying attention. You are saying they are the LEAST of your concerns - but they are still a concern.

They aren't THAT important, but they're still important.

I'm not trying to say that any Thai Boxer will beat any Taekwondo practitioner. Just that the style is inherently better.

Which, well, judging by technique and ANY multiple-style contest/tournament/etc. out there? It is. .

Originally posted by Soljer
You still aren't paying attention. You are saying they are the LEAST of your concerns - but they are still a concern.

They aren't THAT important, but they're still important.

I'm not trying to say that any Thai Boxer will beat any Taekwondo practitioner. Just that the style is inherently better.

Which, well, judging by technique and ANY multiple-style contest/tournament/etc. out there? It is. . I understand exactly what you meant but I meant basically one paper it seems like one can overcome another but I've never seen that in anything. All fighting is is maximizing your strengths while minimizing your weaknesses and whoever can do that wins simple it doesn't matter if someone is using Thai Boxing against a street fighter with no MA background.

Originally posted by Soljer
*sighs*

Yes, the fighter makes the style, not the other way around. But I'm saying if we take two fighters. Equally dedicated. With an equal ease of learning. With 'equal bodies,' and equal training with equivalent instructors, the Thai Boxer will beat out the TKD expert more often than not.
tkd has no good close up move and thai boxer have immensly stronger knees which mean TKD master is screwed

Galactus wipes him off the face of Marvel, as a whole.

How to kill Wolverine?

Two words, The Sun

Originally posted by Grimm22
How to kill Wolverine?

Two words, The Sun Sen-try?

Originally posted by bigbran
Sen-try?

Sentry?

Oh and space, throwing wolverine into pure space would kill him

Originally posted by Grimm22
Sentry?

Oh and space, throwing wolverine into pure space would kill him I know, I made it two words though, Sen-try/the sun... ahh... you don't get it...

the whole wolverine thing has made me shun comics from this point forward after civil war is over i'm done with it until the get some sort of sense and fire joe and all the other current writers at marvel and get some good ones in there. although i may dip my head in a spidy comic from time to time

Originally posted by capt it up
tkd has no good close up move and thai boxer have immensly stronger knees which mean TKD master is screwed

Exactly.

Taekwondo lacks two things, for the most part: the clinch, and groundwork. A thai boxer is comfortable up close, and at a distance. The Taekwondo practitioner isn't NEARLY as effective upclose. It's a flaw in the style.

Originally posted by Soljer
Exactly.

Taekwondo lacks two things, for the most part: the clinch, and groundwork. A thai boxer is comfortable up close, and at a distance. The Taekwondo practitioner isn't NEARLY as effective upclose. It's a flaw in the style.
yup I foughten one before. first time I amde the msitake of fighting like a boxer and not getting close enough. The second time well not gunna lie I just tackled him to the ground and he totaly had no idea what to do.

Originally posted by capt it up
yup I foughten one before. first time I amde the msitake of fighting like a boxer and not getting close enough. The second time well not gunna lie I just tackled him to the ground and he totaly had no idea what to do.
At the time, did you have any ground skills or did you just wing it better than he did? I'm assuming you won. Unless you were practicing.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
At the time, did you have any ground skills or did you just wing it better than he did? I'm assuming you won. Unless you were practicing.
I won the second fight the first I lost due to not taking it up close.


depends do you mean styles or what? I am a experienced fighter. been in more fights then I can count. I practice boxing well did I have to start it up again. I spar alot with my cousin which reminds me I have to start that up again as well.

Originally posted by capt it up
I won the second fight the first I lost due to not taking it up close.


depends do you mean styles or what? I am a experienced fighter. been in more fights then I can count. I practice boxing well did I have to start it up again. I spar alot with my cousin which reminds me I have to start that up again as well.
I just mean did you pick up enough ground game from others to trump him. Like this one fight... I forgot who was in it. I don't think either guy had any ground skills but one of them got behind the other and put him in a rear naked choke. I don't think he was formally trained but he knew what it looked like so he did it. It might of been Chuck Liddell. But he's got the wrestling so I'm not sure.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I just mean did you pick up enough ground game from others to trump him. Like this one fight... I forgot who was in it. I don't think either guy had any ground skills but one of them got behind the other and put him in a rear naked choke. I don't think he was formally trained but he knew what it looked like so he did it. It might of been Chuck Liddell. But he's got the wrestling so I'm not sure.
we went for blows mainly. I head butted him a punch of times in the face.

Ahh... Headbutts. The funniest of all blows.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Ahh... Headbutts. The funniest of all blows.
ya, but they work lol. You gotta aim for the nose

Originally posted by Soljer
I know what you're saying. But you may not be understanding me entirely; I'm not comparing the shoddy McDojo teachings.

I'm saying, that with an equally qualified instructor, and an equal amount of time training, the average Thai Boxer will beat the average TaeKwonDo student more times than not.

As will the average Jiu Jitsu student. .

Can't comment on that. If you have equally skilled/physically fit fighters from the 2 corresponding arts, wouldn't the TKDer try to keep the distance. I don't see that tactic work unless the TKDer was slower or dumb as hell.

The most flaws I see in Kickboxing/ThaiBoxing are the lack of variety and the predictability. It's not very hard to forsee what a
boxer is going to do, unless they're faster than you are. Exactly why I don't really want to fight my friends who do these.. More eastern martial arts. Of course pitting 2 arts against each other is pretty much pointless for they both rely on different options and have different rules.
-------------------

Capt It Up - I see headbutting like kicking somebody on the nads. Lame.. Why don't you just hit them with your fists?

why not head butt them it is effective and in no way cheap. also it easier to get off a head but when your grappleing on the ground

Originally posted by capt it up
why not head butt them it is effective and in no way cheap. also it easier to get off a head but when your grappleing on the ground

IMO it's still a cheap shot. Kinda like yelling "I don't have any grappling skills so I'll just bust your head with mine"

I do Muay Thai will dominate Tae Kwon Do, tae Kwon do is bullshit, as for style vs style, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is king, and if you dont know how to grapple youll never have the chance to headbutt me

its best to know both striking and grappling.

Originally posted by capt it up
yup I foughten one before. first time I amde the msitake of fighting like a boxer and not getting close enough. The second time well not gunna lie I just tackled him to the ground and he totaly had no idea what to do.

If he really didn't then he was just a bad fighter.
Saying that any thai boxer will beat any taekwondo fighter is incorrect.
As been said before it more depends on the fighter than his fighting style. My friend (TDK fighter) whiped the floor with four guys that tried to steel his car, though it doesn't mean that any trained tdk fighter can do that (I personally can't), neither it mean that any thai fighter could do that.
There isn't a single TDK master that doesn't know what to do in clinch or while ground-fighting.

Originally posted by Soljer
I was agreeing with you. I'd rather lose my wallet than my hand.

Here, any robber has some sick and twisted sense of honour, so even if he attacks you with a knife or group of people you almost always can drag him into fighting you 1 on 1 h2h. Weird, i know...

Hit him with the Omega Effect?

Man, you are some Eddie Gordo, "Only the Strong" watching mf's. Is that your only frame of reference for capoeira?

There is show capoeira, contemporary sport capoeira, and then there is the real thing, which has also been used by street fighters. Study the history of capoeira angola. Capoeira angola is not a competition martial art, it is a cultural form. Probably a lot of people who practice contemporary sports commercialized capoeira are not well trained in the martial (or cultural) aspect of it. It has at least a 500 year history in Brazil and more than that in the African forms it was based on.

It is a very deceptive and trick martial art. In the history of Brazil it was recognized as a deadly martial art. Practitioners were skilled in the use of bladed weapons. Capoeiristas are very elusive. For real practitioners part of it is to appear open but to really be closed. People ignore the martial aspect of authentic capoeira because it has other dimensions besides just obvious pummeling.

Some of the naysayers should learn your history of the form before making blanket statements based on your friends' martial arts classes. Capoeiristas fought off the Portuguese for many years in the quilombos (colonies of runaway enslaved people and of Brazil. They were on the front lines in the War of the Triple Alliance. Their reputations as deadly street fighters is what's notorious, if you know to ask people who know.

Originally posted by Sam Z
Not sure about Capoeira but I disagree about Taekwondo and Aikido. These martial arts are effective in a street fight. I studied taekwondo for a long time and must say that it's only effective in an actual confrontation if someone who mastered it is fighting.

Originally posted by Jyppe
Actually I pretty much agree with you. I never intended anything else. I just didn't want to insult the art THAT much.

As an art, Capoeira resembles more like dancing. The "fights" they have in capoeira are pretty much dance show offs. It's damn good for your body though (a Friend of mine does it)



Pretty much agreed.



Muay Thai is exactly same as Thai boxing I've done in here. I'm not sure where you're from, but AFAIK it's usually called Thai Boxing. What I've seen it only diffeers from Kickboxing, because it uses elbows, knees, you can grab your opponent's leg, and there's Thai wrestling involved.

Yeah, Krav maga isn't a competition art. It's a self defence art. Nothing more.



Couldn't care less about Judo. It's hilarious when some Judokas try to grab and throw a guy and then they get a knee to the face. If a guy has a knife, you don't really want to grab him. There was a video on the internet where (Simulated) a guy attacks 'nother one with a knife in an elevator. First the guy tries to grab the knife guy. He gets hit like 40 times. Then what would happen if he was kicking the guy who attacks with the knife. He doesn't get hit nearly at all. So It's smart to keep your distance against knife wielders.





Lacks kicks though :/
------------------

Now let's get back to the topic.

There's no crying in baseball and there's no handstands in fighting.

Originally posted by seaapple
Man, you are some Eddie Gordo, "Only the Strong" watching mf's. Is that your only frame of reference for capoeira?

There is show capoeira, contemporary sport capoeira, and then there is the real thing, which has also been used by street fighters. Study the history of capoeira angola. Capoeira angola is not a competition martial art, it is a cultural form. Probably a lot of people who practice contemporary sports commercialized capoeira are not well trained in the martial (or cultural) aspect of it. It has at least a 500 year history in Brazil and more than that in the African forms it was based on.

It is a very deceptive and trick martial art. In the history of Brazil it was recognized as a deadly martial art. Practitioners were skilled in the use of bladed weapons. Capoeiristas are very elusive. For real practitioners part of it is to appear open but to really be closed. People ignore the martial aspect of authentic capoeira because it has other dimensions besides just obvious pummeling.

Some of the naysayers should learn your history of the form before making blanket statements based on your friends' martial arts classes. Capoeiristas fought off the Portuguese for many years in the quilombos (colonies of runaway enslaved people and of Brazil. They were on the front lines in the War of the Triple Alliance. Their reputations as deadly street fighters is what's notorious, if you know to ask people who know.

I don't know why you quoted me. but i never said that Capoeira is useless. Besides I'm pretty much familliar with it's hystory.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
There's no crying in baseball and there's no handstands in fighting.



Cosigned.

just drown his punk ass.

There are multiple reasons for the handstand. It is an invitation for someone to come in think you are vulnerable for one. Capoeiristas were known for blades on the feet as well as the hands for two. Kicks can be done from that position. Also, there are cultural/spiritual reasons as well for some capoeiristas.

p.s.

Originally posted by Sam Z
I don't know why you quoted me. but i never said that Capoeira is useless. Besides I'm pretty much familliar with it's hystory.

I was responding to yours first just with some info -- since you said you weren't sure about it, then I decided to respond to someone else can cut and pasted my message. I wasn't really aiming my Eddie Gordo joke at you though. There is controversy in the history of capoeira, so I wonder which history you are familiar with. It's very political in some ways.

Soul suck him.

Originally posted by seaapple

I was responding to yours first just with some info -- since you said you weren't sure about it, then I decided to respond to someone else can cut and pasted my message. I wasn't really aiming my Eddie Gordo joke at you though. There is controversy in the history of capoeira, so I wonder which history you are familiar with. It's very political in some ways.
Ok then. I heard that Capoeira used to be a martial art that was used long time ago in street fights in Brazilia and was pretty deadly, but in time learning martial arts became forbidden and Capoeira masters had to cover capoeira technique with more different moves so it'd look like dances so noone would be able to figure that it actually was a martial art. So it became a better-looking but still dangerous martial art. Not sure if it's correct but that's what I heard.

And one last thing. I DO like Eddie Gordo.

Originally posted by capt it up
ya, but they work lol. You gotta aim for the nose this is extremley true....i9 use headbutts in fights all the time, if you do know how to throw them they cause extreme amounts of damage, also if you do them to someones ear/temple you will make them extremley dizzy

Originally posted by Sam Z
If he really didn't then he was just a bad fighter.
Saying that any thai boxer will beat any taekwondo fighter is incorrect.
As been said before it more depends on the fighter than his fighting style. My friend (TDK fighter) whiped the floor with four guys that tried to steel his car, though it doesn't mean that any trained tdk fighter can do that (I personally can't), neither it mean that any thai fighter could do that.
There isn't a single TDK master that doesn't know what to do in clinch or while ground-fighting.


I never said any boxer beats one I merely saying TKD is a terrable up close style. It really just for show not really much elses. I a good style only if combind with another style that involve grappling and yup close fighting.

Originally posted by capt it up
I never said any boxer beats one I merely saying TKD is a terrable up close style. It really just for show not really much elses. I a good style only if combind with another style that involve grappling and yup close fighting.

How is an old martial art designed especially for Korean army and used during a war against heavilly armoured warriors is just for show?
Sorry Capt, but you are wrong here and I can judge about that going by my personal experience and claiming that it is ineffective in close combat is incorrect as well.

Originally posted by Sam Z
How is an old martial art designed especially for Korean army and used during a war against heavilly armoured warriors is just for show?
Sorry Capt, but you are wrong here and I can judge about that going by my personal experience and claiming that it is ineffective in close combat is incorrect as well.
really now? what up close fighting techinques does it teach? I mean from TKD. not just a certain master teaching some up close techniques he has learned from other fighting styles

There is a reason Muay Thai, Kickboxing, Kyokushin Karate, and even boxing dominates K-1 and there is a reason TKD doesn't.

Originally posted by capt it up
really now? what up close fighting techinques does it teach? I mean from TKD. not just a certain master teaching some up close techniques he has learned from other fighting styles

Traditional TDK itself has technique for close-range combat, including self-degfense. So it's not certain masters that learnt it from some other style, but TDK itself.

Originally posted by bigbran
I know, I made it two words though, Sen-try/the sun... ahh... you don't get it...

I get it...now

In that case lets only use two words to describe how to kill Wolverine

I'll start...

Imperious Rex!

Originally posted by Sam Z
Traditional TDK itself has technique for close-range combat, including self-degfense. So it's not certain masters that learnt it from some other style, but TDK itself.
really what does it teach? My cousin a black belt in the style and has stated numerous times it is terriable for up close fighting. He study other styles as well and is current fighting at a dojo that teaches mix martial arts. He how ever states TDK is not a usefull up close fighting style and teach pritty much no up close defenses. I really would love to here a single techinque they teach for up close.

Capoeira derives from African martial practices in the Angola region. One theory is the it came from a type of dance/fight/competition called the N'Golo dance.

The idea about low movements because of enslaved African wearing chains or of hiding a fight as a dance now seems to be a myth. That is because African cultural practices were outlawed in Brazil. So there is no point in hiding one outlawed thing as another. And it was well known that capoeiristas could fight, they were arrested, flogged, etc. for being seen practicing. Also, some try to make it seem as if there isn't a historical lineage of martial arts in Africa, when of course there are many. Capoeira did not of course exist exactly in Africa as it does in Brazil. But the martial and cultural roots have a long history.

A lot of African forms combine multiple elements into one, so the concept of play, fighting, dance, spirituality are fused in a form like capoeira.

A large part of the dance-like qualities of capoeira are designed for elusiveness and deception. The handstands also come from a belief of walking in two worlds. It is a connection to the ancestors.

The older form of capoeira looks a lot different though. Capoeira angola is more fluid and tricky and low to the ground. It is not like the contemporary capoeira you see with a lot of high kicks and flips. It's not "bouncy" like contemporary capoeira (regional). Capoeira regional was developed by Mestre Bimba to make a state sanctioned capoeira that appealed to the middle classes as well. Early capoeira regional was not so different from angola, but it has evolved into something more...standardized and with it's own aesthetic and popular appeal. It is more of a martial sport in a way.

Of course there are undoubtedly capoeira regional practitioners who are interested in culture and capoeira angola practitioners who are more commercially oriented. But I have tried to paint a general picture of a few issues here.

Actually, I was glad to see Eddie Gordo and usually played him in Tekken. The joke is just that for some people that is their entire view of capoeira. Gordo may not play traditional capoeira, but I like seeing it represented in a game nonetheless. And I just pressed down on the controller and he played more in a capoeira angola style



Originally posted by Sam Z
Ok then. I heard that Capoeira used to be a martial art that was used long time ago in street fights in Brazilia and was pretty deadly, but in time learning martial arts became forbidden and Capoeira masters had to cover capoeira technique with more different moves so it'd look like dances so noone would be able to figure that it actually was a martial art. So it became a better-looking but still dangerous martial art. Not sure if it's correct but that's what I heard.

And one last thing. I DO like Eddie Gordo.

Originally posted by capt it up
really what does it teach? My cousin a black belt in the style and has stated numerous times it is terriable for up close fighting. He study other styles as well and is current fighting at a dojo that teaches mix martial arts. He how ever states TDK is not a usefull up close fighting style and teach pritty much no up close defenses. I really would love to here a single techinque they teach for up close.

What TDK your brother studied? The problem is that in many places they only prepare students for participating in the tournaments that have dumb RULES instead of concentrating on fighting itself, making students only train according to these rules. (No low-kicks, throws etc). As for technique names, only kicks and punches have NAMES (like up chaigi, furio chaigi etc) self defense doesn't have names.

Originally posted by capt it up
really what does it teach? My cousin a black belt in the style and has stated numerous times it is terriable for up close fighting. He study other styles as well and is current fighting at a dojo that teaches mix martial arts. He how ever states TDK is not a usefull up close fighting style and teach pritty much no up close defenses. I really would love to here a single techinque they teach for up close.

Umm. Then you'd also have to say that kickboxing is a bad art in close situation which I don't personally agree with.

*Remembers the tournament held in 1963, 3 Karatekas from Japan vs 3 Thai Boxers from Thailand. Japan won 2-1*

I'll say it again .. just drown him .

take away his air or drown him.

What about throwing him into the sun?

Yah that will work...but some stupid noob fan or crap ass writers with still make his survive that.

Originally posted by Jyppe
Now, this isn't a spite thread or anything similiar. I'm wondering what ways could be used to kill/immobilize this new "Immortal" Wolverine. Permanently.

A powerful telepath could do a mindwipe destroying every bit of his phsyche, or someone who could manipulate soul (Soul gem anyone?) could potentially destroy his soul.

comments? One would need to destroy the source of Logan's powers.............Teh Fanboys!

Reality warpers and drowning. And an ultimate nulifier. And eternty.


And me.

Originally posted by Alfheim
censored

I swear we should just ban Wolverine fights on this forum. Its impossible to have a decent debate with this character now.
shut up alreadsy good god. When ever wolverine is mention you have to make a stupid ass comment like this.


Please reframe from talking about matters you do not understand nor have read about.

Originally posted by Soljer
You misunderstand. His immortality has NOTHING to do with his healing factor. It is an immortality of spirit.

Theoretically, even assuming every molecule of his adamantium was obliterated, he would 'appear' somewhere on the planet, and grow bones. Then a nervous system, then circulatory, then muscles, tissues, etc.

His new immortality has nothing to do with his healing factor. It has to do with his spirit.

Also, this was elaborated upon in the latest Wolverine title. It's the one immediately following the 'sentry' fight. I think it's like 43 or something, but I could be mistaken.

Alfheim - Wolverine can still be used as a combatant on these boards, just not in 'to the (permanent) death' fights. Wolverine can still be killed, and he can still be knocked out. Just like always.

And besides, this isn't as incredibly extreme as everyone's making it. Deadpool's immortal, and we can still use him all over the place on the forum. Why? Cause he can still be knocked out, even if he can't be killed.
cosigned

Jubilee can vaporize him. If she has very good control of her power.

hmm so if u chop off wolvies head, his body will juss walk up to his head, and plop it right back on?

Soul Rip

it's all supply and demand....
first kill the fanboys, then wolverine dies.