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So this is Logan vs Bruce Wayne

Bruce

Wolverine is wayyy older than Bruce, and I think knows Samurai as well as US Army and a whole other amount of stuff? I know Bruce knows a lot too but based on the claws (you said no adamantium, but not sure if you meant know claws period) id have to go with Logan.

Batman is the premiere Hand to hand combatant in the DCU. Wolverine, well, isn't. At most I've seen him use moves from three or four different styles of martial arts. Batman has used at the very least ten from what I've seen.

Batman wins.

Originally posted by supervenom
Wolverine is wayyy older than Bruce, and I think knows Samurai as well as US Army and a whole other amount of stuff? I know Bruce knows a lot too but based on the claws (you said no adamantium, but not sure if you meant know claws period) id have to go with Logan.

There are plenty of people that are WAY more experienced than Bruce, and he still whips the shit out of them. Your logic is faulty.

I'd, honestly, put Batman's skill showings over Logan's.

Logan, however, has superior strength and speed feats. He'd win a majority due to that fact, coupled with the fact that he IS a skilled martial artist, even if he rarely shows it.

Originally posted by Soljer
There are plenty of people that are WAY more experienced than Bruce, and he still whips the shit out of them. Your logic is faulty.

I'd, honestly, put Batman's skill showings over Logan's.

Logan, however, has superior strength and speed feats. He'd win a majority due to that fact, coupled with the fact that he IS a skilled martial artist, even if he rarely shows it.

Question: Are his strength and speed feats due to any of his mutant powers? Such as his rage, does that have to do with his powers? If they are, wouldnt that negate the strength AND speed abilities?

As far as my logic being faulty, the question stated

"They only have the experience they have gained through years of rigorous training."

so I went basically on that alone.

Originally posted by supervenom
Question: Are his strength and speed feats due to any of his mutant powers? Such as his rage, does that have to do with his powers? If they are, wouldnt that negate the strength AND speed abilities?

As far as my logic being faulty, the question stated

"They only have the experience they have gained through years of rigorous training."

so I went basically on that alone.

True, true.

I thought that it'd be current Logan, stripped of his healing, adamantium, and claws.

His enhanced senses, strength, and speed DOES come partially from his healing factor.

However, his strength and speed also partially come from the chemical weapon X enhancements.

Though, as we are unaware of how much those alone would amp Wolverine, without his healing factor....

**** it, let's just take the match as skill vs. skill, then?

If that's the case, Batman wins a slight majority. I've seen better skill feats from Batman than from Logan, but Logan is still a premier martial artist.

Batman wins.

Originally posted by Soljer
True, true.

I thought that it'd be current Logan, stripped of his healing, adamantium, and claws.

His enhanced senses, strength, and speed DOES come partially from his healing factor.

However, his strength and speed also partially come from the chemical weapon X enhancements.

Though, as we are unaware of how much those alone would amp Wolverine, without his healing factor....

**** it, let's just take the match as skill vs. skill, then?

If that's the case, Batman wins a slight majority. I've seen better skill feats from Batman than from Logan, but Logan is still a premier martial artist.

Hrmm although I too have seen a lot more feats of Bruce in this matter, Id still have to say Logan based on the idea of him being around longer and learning from around the world.

Then again, Bruce is the same (or better, meaning he knows more arts) just without the age difference, correct?

Based on comic evidence alone, I go with Bruce. But like I said, with that aside, I go with Logan on this matter. IMO, theres no substitute for Life Experience. Gah, I think im getting off the topic

logan experience and skills have increased greatly since house of M due to remebering his memory.


Logan I would say in my opinion is more skilled then batman how ever I willing to say they are equals which would matter little since logan would still have the physical adavantage not to mention he would have enchanced durability making it much harder for batman to damage him.

I like wolverine more, but batman wins this one 10/10

Originally posted by capt it up
logan experience and skills have increased greatly since house of M due to remebering his memory.


Logan I would say in my opinion is more skilled then batman how ever I willing to say they are equals which would matter little since logan would still have the physical adavantage not to mention he would have enchanced durability making it much harder for batman to damage him.

I believe the intention of the thread was to compare their skills. Especially since we have NO idea how much the Weapon X chemical enhancements amped Wolverine's stats.

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Batman is the premiere Hand to hand combatant in the DCU. Unless Karate Kid is mentioned shifty

Originally posted by Soljer
I believe the intention of the thread was to compare their skills. Especially since we have NO idea how much the Weapon X chemical enhancements amped Wolverine's stats.
we do it was explain it the weapon-x noval. It only increased his strength and durability if I am not mistaken.


skill wise I rather not do this me and batdude went for like 10 pages back and forth.

I would give Logan the advantage over Bruce skill wise. Logan has just way too much experience over Bruce. Bruce has had like thirty something years of training, and Logan has like 400 years of experience in multiple fighting styles. Logan just doesn't really use his training because he normally has his claws and healing factor, without them he'll use his training to the fullest and take out Bruce.

Originally posted by supervenom
Wolverine is wayyy older than Bruce, and I think knows Samurai as well as US Army and a whole other amount of stuff? I know Bruce knows a lot too but based on the claws (you said no adamantium, but not sure if you meant know claws period) id have to go with Logan. it's funny how someone says no healing factor, but doesn't mention no claws, so it's still an option


think about it

IF HE POPS THEM, HE WILL BLEED TO DEATH.....jesus....

oh, and Bats wins

Batman pretty much always has to use his skill to beat opponents. Wolverine can rely on his healing factor at times. Batman wins based on skills alone.

Originally posted by supervenom
Not necessarily. Especially if he keeps the claws out and never retracts them. It would probably damage his body badly, but the body does heal itself as well. Not sure if it could handle it coming out like that, but its a possibility. The body would heal over it over time. yes nessicarly...if he didn't have his HF he'd pretty much just die..

How is that, if your talking about his age that's another thing you just assumed because the thread maker never said anything about his age effecting him in this fight.

His post was edited about 5 hours ago

Well I just saw it. He edited it after I posted my message, so I had no clue until you brought it up.

The only reason I brought it up was because of NinoArana

Originally posted by Wolverine2006
The only reason I brought it up was because of NinoArana

Figured that was the reason, but I wasnt putting you down if thats what you thought.

no I just didnt want you to think I was being an ass

Originally posted by Wolverine2006
no I just didnt want you to think I was being an ass

Oo ok

So back on topic, I still say Logan (regardless of the claws).

Batman wins.

well i missed alot...i don't change my opinion (and won't discuss the other thing because it's OT)

I still say Logan wuld take this...hes just a better fighter than Bruce

Originally posted by Wolverine2006
hes just a better fighter than Bruce

False.

Bruce is the more skilled fighter by a fair amount.

Originally posted by capt it up
logan experience and skills have increased greatly since house of M due to remebering his memory.


Logan I would say in my opinion is more skilled then batman how ever I willing to say they are equals which would matter little since logan would still have the physical adavantage not to mention he would have enchanced durability making it much harder for batman to damage him. I thought that the HOM characters weren't usable as in comparison to 616...
Thats what was said in the Sabertooth vs Black Panther thread...

I'de say that Batman has him beat in that area, pretty easily. If your going to bring up age, then you might as well bring up Ra Al Ghul (I don't think I spelt it right).

Wait, what do you mean by the physical advantage? Wouldn't he be quite a bit weaker than he was, without adamantium?

Originally posted by batdude123
False.

Bruce is the more skilled fighter by a fair amount.

Feats wise? Cosigned.

Hype wise? Nope, .

Originally posted by capt it up
logan experience and skills have increased greatly since house of M due to remebering his memory.

No offense, Capt, but this is an assumption on your part. I haven't seen anywhere since HOM saying that his experience and skills have greatly increased or increased at all for that matter. Just saying.

Originally posted by Wolverine2006
I would give Logan the advantage over Bruce skill wise. Logan has just way too much experience over Bruce. Bruce has had like thirty something years of training, and Logan has like 400 years of experience in multiple fighting styles. Logan just doesn't really use his training because he normally has his claws and healing factor, without them he'll use his training to the fullest and take out Bruce.

...Four hundred years...?

Originally posted by bigbran
I thought that the HOM characters weren't usable as in comparison to 616...
Thats what was said in the Sabertooth vs Black Panther thread...

Oh damn. That's right. I completely forgot about that. Capt is always saying how HOM doesn't count, and yet uses it as evidence to say that Wolverine is more skilled and experienced.

Good eye there, bigbran.

I thought house of M didn't count because things were restored, or some such? Wolverine still has the experiences he unlocked from it, though.

Or at least, I believed so.

*sigh*

I don't even know why this needs to be explained.

HoM totally retconned the history of the Marvel Universe. Magneto was attacked by Sentinels in the 70's (at which time there were no active heroes/mutants) and exposed a mutant conspiracy, everything from that point on ward is totally different. Most importantly (for this thread anyway) there was no Weapon X! We know nothing about HoM Sabretooth's past. Did he have any formal training before he came to work for Magneto or did you just use his natural abilities and fall into the role of mercenary? We don't know. What we do know is he never recieved any Weapon X training (since Weapon X didn't exist), he missed out on two upgrades and unlike HoM Logan he was never a member of HoM S.H.I.E.L.D.


So why is Black Panther vs. HoM Sabretooth not at are relevant to Black Panther vs. 616 Sabretooth? Because they aren't the same character. Sabretooth's history is what shapes his character, he isn't the same person he was when he was beating Wolverine around in Frontier days Canada in personality or abilities.


HoM happened - its in continuity - BUT HoM reality characters have totally different back grounds and histories then their 616 counter parts. HoM Sabretooth is much 616 Sabretooth as HoM Captian America was 616 Captain America.

I just thumbed through my Secrets of the House of M and here is the run down on what is says about Sabretooth. He assassinated Robert Kelly who was the head of the Council of Mutant Affairs, then he traveled to Alberta, went crazy and started killing people. SHIELD sent Wolverine to Alberta, he beat upSabretooth and sent him to jail... where he stayed until he was released into Magneto's custody presumably to assassinate the Black Panther. He is noted as have a healing factor less developed then Wolverines.

just because Cap says hes mastered everything doesnt mean its true. it says on Batmans profile(not Bruce bragging) that he has specifically mastered 127(not 125) fighting styles. Steve probably just said that because he is a great martial artist and possibly one of the best in the world too, but he isnt better than Bruce. theyre equal on combat skill. and DC i believe has way better fighters. It's been stated numerous times on here, if i recall. i mean, honestly what can u logically show to me that Captain America is more skilled than Batman..?

Cap doesn't brag. He doesn't lie. He doesn't tell mis truths or inaccurate information.

If Cap says he's mastered every martial art, then he damned sure as apple pie has mastered every single martial art. .

Originally posted by Soljer
Cap doesn't brag. He doesn't lie. He doesn't tell mis truths or inaccurate information.

If Cap says he's mastered every martial art, then he damned sure as apple pie has mastered every single martial art. .

lol. gotta love the copy and paste.

ok. ill accept that Cap didnt lie and that hes on equal terms as Batman as far as fighting skill goes, but hes not better than him.

Originally posted by Soljer
Cap doesn't brag. He doesn't lie. He doesn't tell mis truths or inaccurate information.

If Cap says he's mastered every martial art, then he damned sure as apple pie has mastered every single martial art. .

No, he really hasn't mastered every style of fighting on the planet. That's just rediculous Marvel hyperbole.

Originally posted by braz
just because Cap says hes mastered everything doesnt mean its true. it says on Batmans profile(not Bruce bragging) that he has specifically mastered 127(not 125) fighting styles. Steve probably just said that because he is a great martial artist and possibly one of the best in the world too, but he isnt better than Bruce. theyre equal on combat skill. and DC i believe has way better fighters. It's been stated numerous times on here, if i recall. i mean, honestly what can u logically show to me that Captain America is more skilled than Batman..?


Captain America doesn't lie, he doesn't exaggerate, and this wasn't a Hand book rating scale, it was Captain America saying it on panel. He HAS mastered every fighting style.

Batman has lost to normal humans in hand to hand combat... what normal guy has flat out beaten Captain America in hand to hand?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Batman has lost to normal humans in hand to hand combat... what normal guy has flat out beaten Captain America in hand to hand?

no one because of his enhanced physical attributes. i mean, the guy can run a freakin mile in a minute and press 1200lbs+

Originally posted by braz
lol. gotta love the copy and paste.

ok. ill accept that Cap didnt lie and that hes on equal terms as Batman as far as fighting skill goes, but hes not better than him.

Never said he was.

Originally posted by braz
no one because of his enhanced physical attributes. i mean, the guy can run a freakin mile in a minute and press 1200lbs+

Touche.

Originally posted by Soljer
Never said he was.

I know.


im talking aboot srank.

Heres what we know

Captain America is considered the best in a world with the likes of Shang Chi, Wolverine and Elektra.

Batman is not considered the best in a world with Dragon, Shiva and Cass.

If you are better then Shang Chi, then you are better then Shiva, and if you are better then Shiva, then you are better then Batman.

Idunno, thats still debatable because ive heard alot that fighters in the DC universe are better.