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The 3 deadliest X-Villains versus the 3 greatest Avengers.

No prep. No PIS.

Assume characters fight to their full potential but also within their character.

wow master you have a very low opinion of mags, apoc, and juggs to pair them up with these guys.

Originally posted by jasofisc
wow master you have a very low opinion of mags, apoc, and juggs to pair them up with these guys.

No, I actually think that Mags, Apoc and Juggs are very powerful.

But I didn't just want to randomly pick 3 characters to face them against, and since those 3 Avengers had some comics together, I thought it would be interesting.

Thor, IM, and Caps make a very good team that is formidable as they work well together. Caps is a brilliant battlefield strategist and capable fighter, along with his shield, he can survive. Iron Man is extremely versatile and intelligent. And Thor, well, he's arguably the most powerful one of all six combatants.

Apocalypse is virtually Skyfather level. Juggernaut is Juggernaut. Captain America won't do much with that shield against Magneto. Iron Man will have trouble too. Though I love Thor, the power for Team 1 is too great for me to vote against them.

Cap is the first to die, leaving IM with his hands full with Mags, then Thor is locked with Juggy. That can go on forever

Originally posted by roughrider
Apocalypse is virtually Skyfather level. Juggernaut is Juggernaut. Captain America won't do much with that shield against Magneto. Iron Man will have trouble too. Though I love Thor, the power for Team 1 is too great for me to vote against them. Apoc isn't even close to that level.

People debate whether Thanos is one, and yet, Apoc is one?

Even a certain Thanos hater (who shall remain nameless), has said Thanos isn't a skyfather level, and later he said that Apoc is one.
And he even says that he knows all about Thanos?

Anyway, irrelevent.
Thor is more powerful than Mags, and Apoc. He is more powerful than Juggs too, but he can't really hurt him.

Also, what the hell is Cap going to do here?

Originally posted by bigbran
Apoc isn't even close to that level.

People debate whether Thanos is one, and yet, Apoc is one?

Even a certain Thanos hater (who shall remain nameless), has said Thanos isn't a skyfather level, and later he said that Apoc is one.
And he even says that he knows all about Thanos?

Anyway, irrelevent.
Thor is more powerful than Mags, and Apoc. He is more powerful than Juggs too, but he can't really hurt him.

Also, what the hell is Cap going to do here?

Cap is the strategist. He gives his teammates battle orders and can be a distraction with well aimed shield tosses.

Thor fought Juggy and couldn't best him. He got trashed through a bunch of buildings and and mashed his brains in

Cap has no power to play here. He is the weak link.
Apocalypse is NEARLY Skyfather level, I said. He can make himself nearly as strong and durable as he needs to. He's in Thanos territory for power ( though not as devious as the Mad Titan.)

A bio to remind us - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_%28comics%29

Originally posted by masterbruce
The 3 deadliest X-Villains versus the 3 greatest Avengers.

No prep. No PIS.

Assume characters fight to their full potential but also within their character.

Originally posted by Metalmanx


yeah I guess I underpowered the Avengers. I chose those 3 because they have their own series, so I thought it would be cool to pit them against some powerful foes.

Originally posted by roughrider
Cap has no power to play here. He is the weak link.
Apocalypse is NEARLY Skyfather level, I said. He can make himself nearly as strong and durable as he needs to. He's in Thanos territory for power ( though not as devious as the Mad Titan.)

A bio to remind us - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_%28comics%29 Ya, in bios, he is near Thanos.
In comics... he gets wiped out with the wave of Thanos's hand.

What is, stalemating Namor (a skyfather shouldn't have a problem with him)?
Getting beat by a wisper?
I think Cyke has owned him.
etc, etc.

He would get raped by Thanos, beat by Thor, beat by Blackbolt, beat by Silver Surfer, beat by Superman, beat by anyone remotely close to a skyfather, be it, herald level, and up.
Top tiers have beaten him.
He is nowhere near Thanos, or even a good herald for that matter.

Name me five feats that put him near Thanos.

Couldnt thor bfr team 1? just puttin that out there.and since when is apoc skyfather?

I'm thinkg that if Thor can unleash a Godblast in the start of battle, he could immediately eliminate either Mags or Apoc. Then the odds would even quite a bit.

IM and Cap get put down in the first 10 seconds. Thor falls shortly after unless it's RKT.

Originally posted by bigbran
Ya, in bios, he is near Thanos.
In comics... he gets wiped out with the wave of Thanos's hand.

What is, stalemating Namor (a skyfather shouldn't have a problem with him)?
Getting beat by a wisper?
I think Cyke has owned him.
etc, etc.

He would get raped by Thanos, beat by Thor, beat by Blackbolt, beat by Silver Surfer, beat by Superman, beat by anyone remotely close to a skyfather, be it, herald level, and up.
Top tiers have beaten him.
He is nowhere near Thanos, or even a good herald for that matter.

Name me five feats that put him near Thanos.

That whisper was from Black Bolt.
There are cosmics in Marvel who fear the power of his voice.

I make no claim to feats for Apocalypse; just showing he has a lot of power at his disposal. And he's not a jobber like say, Rhino.

Apoc isn't Skyfather even remotely close. Namor has made Apoc cringe with a table thrown at him.

Apoc talks a big game but isn't any where close Apoc himself even states in the War Hulk comic that Juggernaut is by far the toughest x-Men foe it terms of power.

Anyways Thor could BFR the entire team if he wanted to and had the time to do so. In character fighting though with Thor just throwing his hammer about the fight is a little better.

Let's see Cap is done very fast IM is a tough cookie and could easily battle either Mags or Apoc separately and pull outa stalemate or win against them although Mags is the bigger threat. Thor could handle either Mags or Apoc pretty easily if you ask me. So because Thor and IM have the flight and maneuverability so they should get the matchups they want better so at the end I say it is IM and Thor against Juggernaut and while they could stay out of his reach they wouldn't beat him except for BFR

Originally posted by masterbruce
Cap is the strategist. He gives his teammates battle orders and can be a distraction with well aimed shield tosses. lol. he dies fast

Originally posted by Brian Oswald
lol. he dies fast

no he doesn't. He's faced much tougher situations and survived. Now I'm not saying he won't get killed, but it's gonna be a lot tougher than his stats would indicate.

Originally posted by bigbran
Apoc isn't even close to that level.

People debate whether Thanos is one, and yet, Apoc is one?

Even a certain Thanos hater (who shall remain nameless), has said Thanos isn't a skyfather level, and later he said that Apoc is one.
And he even says that he knows all about Thanos?

Anyway, irrelevent.
Thor is more powerful than Mags, and Apoc. He is more powerful than Juggs too, but he can't really hurt him.

Also, what the hell is Cap going to do here?

Apocalypse of coruse isn't skyfather level.

Still, Team (CA, IM and Thor) lose horribly and easily.
Team 1 is actully far too much for the other team.
Thor alone wasn't mathc for Juggernaut.

Originally posted by roughrider
That whisper was from Black Bolt.
There are cosmics in Marvel who fear the power of his voice.

Still, that wasn't true Apocalyps, true Apocalypse was dead, it was HoM.
And before, Apocalypse has withstood the scream of BB like it was nothing.

And if you say he would get beaten by anyone, why wasn't he then beaten by High Evolutionary (who was clearly above Silver Surfer), Loki or PE Ikaris?

Originally posted by Newjak
Apoc isn't Skyfather even remotely close. Namor has made Apoc cringe with a table thrown at him.

Originally posted by Newjak
Apoc talks a big game but isn't any where close Apoc himself even states in the War Hulk comic that Juggernaut is by far the toughest x-Men foe it terms of power.

Am, no, where did you get that from? ''I desired to learn whetever his power could withstand my own... and, by extention of Celestials (which is anyway litereally part of Apocalypse power for thosusands of years), clearly I am receiving my answer.'', in other words, he said his (Apocalypse power) goes clearly beyond that of Juggernaut.

The villain team win. Mainly because Captain America contributes absolutely nothing at all to this fight whatsoever.

Apocalipsis has never done anything to be feared as an skyfather, he is in fact a jobber, an underdevelopped character and a boring oponent.

But look, if there is no PIS, Captain America has nothing to do here. The jobber aura is his life -in this fight, litteraly.

Ironman cannot beat any of the villian team. Is Thor supposed to solo them all?

Originally posted by masterbruce
no he doesn't. He's faced much tougher situations and survived. Now I'm not saying he won't get killed, but it's gonna be a lot tougher than his stats would indicate.

Yes he does.

Realistically, Magneto kills him with a wave of the hand. You yourself said that "Assume characters fight to their full potential but also within their character." Cap gets squished.

Iron Man gets killed relatively soon, too. He's good, but not good enough. Thor would be hard pressed to beat any of these guys, nevermind all of them.

Originally posted by roughrider
Apocalypse is virtually Skyfather level. Tell me you're joking. You MUST be joking.

But anyway...the villains overpower the heroes in this one.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Realistically, Magneto kills him with a wave of the hand....

...Thor would be hard pressed to beat any of these guys, nevermind all of them. Ok tell me YOU'RE joking too...

Where do these people come from?

I take it you know very little of Thor. He once humiliated Magneto and sent him running with his tail between his legs...

Against Apoc or Jugg, he's more or less even money...but Magneto is a joke to him.

Originally posted by Lord S
Ok tell me YOU'RE joking too...

Where do these people come from?

I take it you know very little of Thor. He once humiliated Magneto and sent him running with his tail between his legs...

Against Apoc or Jugg, he's more or less even money...but Magneto is a joke to him.

He's talking about Cap. Not Thor.

Originally posted by RisingStorm
He's talking about Cap. Not Thor. Originally posted by jollyjim311
Thor would be hard pressed to beat any of these guys, nevermind all of them. In the last part of the post, he's talking about Thor.

Originally posted by masterbruce
The 3 deadliest X-Villains versus the 3 greatest Avengers.

No prep. No PIS.

Assume characters fight to their full potential but also within their character.
Um, does this seem a bit lopsided? Even without prep and PIS, Cap's jobber aura will get him the win alone.

take thor vol. 2 issue one, and replace the Asgardian destroyer with juggernaut and you have your answer.

BFR isnt an option with juggernaut (assuming he is using his power) because even dimensional boundaries do not hold him. he can come crashing back to earth.


the heroes are GROSSLY underpowered here. juggernaut could take out cap and iron man with backhands. thor wouldnt be much trouble after that.

Originally posted by Lord S
Ok tell me YOU'RE joking too...

Where do these people come from?

I take it you know very little of Thor. He once humiliated Magneto and sent him running with his tail between his legs...

Against Apoc or Jugg, he's more or less even money...but Magneto is a joke to him.


that was classic magneto (vastly less powerfull then his modern counterpart once got beat by spiderman)

and that was classic thor (vastly more powerful this his (non rkt or king thor) modern counterpart who once drove off galactus and beat a celestal)

I say villains win most of the time, but I could think of a few scenarios to get a win or two for the heroes.

I think if stacked up right, it would decide the outcome of the fight. Thor could KO Magneto right off the bat if he was the first one he came across (ala phase Mjolnir through shield), and that takes care of a large part of the team. After that, Iron Man can take it to Apoc for awhile, while Thor then has the chance to BFR Juggernaut.

Not saying that's really going to happen most of the time, but I'd give 'em 3/20

I don't think the Avengers team is quite as weak as others might think. If you want to see these three Avengers match up against some powerhouses, read 'Ragnarok.' There, Cap, Iron Man and a somewhat depowered Thor take on Loki, Fenris and Ulik all of whom are wielding Mjolnir-level weapons.

Both Cap and Iron Man save the team outright on more than a few occasions in the extended battle. Naturally, Thor is the last one standing, but without Iron Man and Cap, he would have been toast. Cap's shield means a lot since it can basically repel and defend anything thrown at it. Iron Man's got enough power to at the very least distract Magneto, Apocalypse or Juggernaut.

Personally, I don't think the Avenger's team could do anything about Juggernaut. Yeah, blow a crater underneath him or collapse a mountain or a skyscraper on top of him Spidey-style and bury him in rubble (I think Spidey did that to Juggy once), but since that in itself is BFR and the OP said no BFR, they'll have to deal with him sooner or later. I don't think any of them can.

Avengers best chance is for Thor to take care of Magneto early and fast - siphon his magnetism with mjolnir, and take him out of it. Iron Man tries to occupy Apocalpyse as long as possible, while Cap just tries to stay out of reach of Juggernaut - he is faster and more agile; Cain is big but still slow by comparison. Once it's 3-on-2, we've compensated for Cap's lack of power. Now Thor takes on Apocalypse, Iron Man goes to help against Juggs. If Thor takes care of Apoc, it's down to Juggernaut, though Cap may be dead by now. If Thor can neutralize the mystic field around Cain, and Tony can get his helmet off, there's possible victory.
It's the best scenario for the Avengers team I can think of.

Now that I see it under that light, its actually posible. The Cap stalls Juggs (totally capable of doing it), Thor kills Magneto in some picoseconds (totally capable) and IM stalls for his life.

Yep, this is pretty much people stalling for Thor, but as I see it, its something they could actually pull off. I'm surprised.

what if magneto decides to take out iron man first???


cause i dont imagine it would be a good idea to put the MOST POWERFUL villain (Juggernaut) up against the weakest link on either side. his shield cannot deflect juggernaut.


iron man nor cap are going to be obstacles for him. the best bet would be to put thor against him to TRY and slow him down. but we know how that goes.

Originally posted by Bentley
The Cap stalls Juggs (totally capable of doing it)

Jugg walks and the other fighters fly, they dont have to mind him all that much until they make Magneto go squat.

I forgot the unmovable power of Juggs, I was just thinking about the imprevious to physical damage, sorry about that one. Juggs still aint taking the Cap down in two seconds, if he misses even one punch against the Cap, thats already stalling.

Juggernaut can just stand there and be a staller for Cap actually. In fact, why would Juggy even waste his time on Cap? He would go after Thor. And, as history has shown on a few occassions, Juggernaut defeats Thor.

Cap is the weakest link. Good guys are pretty screwed here.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Juggernaut can just stand there and be a staller for Cap actually. In fact, why would Juggy even waste his time on Cap? He would go after Thor. And, as history has shown on a few occassions, Juggernaut defeats Thor.

Cap is the weakest link. Good guys are pretty screwed here. That is Thor being an idiot mostly though if you think about it with the exception of Mags Juggs and Apoc are grounded. IM and Thor though can fly so two flyers against one. Thor takes Mags easily just to many possible attacks to use on someone with human durability. Cap is a none factor but yeah I think we have seen enough of Apoc to know that he isn't that tough IM could probably stalemate him for awhile until Thor finished with Mags and then Thor and IM should easily beat Apoc.

Of course they aren't taking down Juggernaut but Thor could negate his powers long enugh for them to get the helmet off and hope between one of them they can find some kind of telepathy.

Captain America is getting less credit than he deserves.

He is the leader of the Avengers for a reason. The guy's incredibly scrappy and has survived many situations that one of his abilities shouldn't be able to.

Captain America is obviously not an offensive threat, but he could serve as a great decoy to distract.

With his shield and his skills and experience, he will be able to keep the lumbering Juggernaut occupied for quite awhile.

So it would be Thor and IM versus Apoc and Mags.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Captain America is getting less credit than he deserves.

He is the leader of the Avengers for a reason. The guy's incredibly scrappy and has survived many situations that one of his abilities shouldn't be able to.

Captain America is obviously not an offensive threat, but he could serve as a great decoy to distract.

With his shield and his skills and experience, he will be able to keep the lumbering Juggernaut occupied for quite awhile.

So it would be Thor and IM versus Apoc and Mags. Unless Cain was serious and just decided to Thunderclap CA or stomp the ground so CA falls into a large hole. Don't get me wrong CA is scrappy but he still in reality contributes nothing I mean if Juggernaut doesn't want to bother with him then Cain isn't going to care if CA jumps all over him while he is going another direction.

Originally posted by Newjak
Unless Cain was serious and just decided to Thunderclap CA or stomp the ground so CA falls into a large hole. Don't get me wrong CA is scrappy but he still in reality contributes nothing I mean if Juggernaut doesn't want to bother with him then Cain isn't going to care if CA jumps all over him while he is going another direction.

true, but the way I see it Cain has no choice but to deal with Cap. IM and Thor can both fly so Cain can't do shit except toss cars at them. And if Cap constantly baits Cain by repeatdely chucking the shield into Cain's face Cain WILL turn his attention to Cap. Cap's shield can absorb a thunderclap and can probably dodge Cain for quite awhile.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Captain America is getting less credit than he deserves.

He is the leader of the Avengers for a reason. The guy's incredibly scrappy and has survived many situations that one of his abilities shouldn't be able to.

Captain America is obviously not an offensive threat, but he could serve as a great decoy to distract.

With his shield and his skills and experience, he will be able to keep the lumbering Juggernaut occupied for quite awhile.

So it would be Thor and IM versus Apoc and Mags.

Juggernaut can literally just sit there and be a distraction for Cap if he wanted to.

But that's beside the point. Juggernaut could hand either Tony or Thor their ass if they fought. However, Thor and Iron Man would probably just avoid Juggy. Eh.

Originally posted by masterbruce
true, but the way I see it Cain has no choice but to deal with Cap. IM and Thor can both fly so Cain can't do shit except toss cars at them. And if Cap constantly baits Cain by repeatdely chucking the shield into Cain's face Cain WILL turn his attention to Cap. Cap's shield can absorb a thunderclap and can probably dodge Cain for quite awhile.

A ground-pound will work quite nicely.

I just thought of a way for Cain to attack Thor and Iron Man. He could chuck Captain America at them at super-speed. That'd work pretty well.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Juggernaut can literally just sit there and be a distraction for Cap if he wanted to.

But that's beside the point. Juggernaut could hand either Tony or Thor their ass if they fought. However, Thor and Iron Man would probably just avoid Juggy. Eh.

If Cap distracts Juggs, then he's being a great benefit to his team.

Thus, the weakest member of the Avengers will be occupying the most powerful member of the Villains.

I dont think Juggs can take out Caps unless they fight for a couple of days and Cap starts slowing down.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
A ground-pound will work quite nicely.

I just thought of a way for Cain to attack Thor and Iron Man. He could chuck Captain America at them at super-speed. That'd work pretty well.

A ground pound would never work. Cap will just jump as Jugg slams into the ground, suffering no effects.

As to your Capchucking plan, how will Jugs throw something he can never catch in the first place?

Originally posted by masterbruce
A ground pound would never work. Cap will just jump as Jugg slams into the ground, suffering no effects.

As to your Capchucking plan, how will Jugs throw something he can never catch in the first place? Cap is good at dodging but he isn't Spiderman and he is only peak human in everything Cain would catch him alot sooner then you think.

Anyways Cain would more than likely be tossing cars and flagpoles at Thor and IM more than he would be after Cap.

Originally posted by Newjak
Cap is good at dodging but he isn't Spiderman and he is only peak human in everything Cain would catch him alot sooner then you think.

Anyways Cain would more than likely be tossing cars and flagpoles at Thor and IM more than he would be after Cap.

Exactly. And it's not like Juggernaut is slow. By no means is he slow.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Exactly. And it's not like Juggernaut is slow. By no means is he slow.

he's not slow, but he is slower than Cap

What in hell do you honestly think that Cap will contribute besides being cannonfodder.

Juggernaut won't even pay him mind. Cap can bounce on his head for all he cares. He's gonna be more concerned with throwing a piece of a street block at Thor.

Cap's shield protecting him? Oops. Mags decided to take it for himself....

Originally posted by Draco69
What in hell do you honestly think that Cap will contribute besides being cannonfodder.

Juggernaut won't even pay him mind. Cap can bounce on his head for all he cares. He's gonna be more concerned with throwing a piece of a street block at Thor.

Cap's shield protecting him? Oops. Mags decided to take it for himself....

So Mag is focusin on taking Caps shield? that'll make it even easier for Thor to oneshot him with a godblast

Originally posted by masterbruce
So Mag is focusin on taking Caps shield? that'll make it even easier for Thor to oneshot him with a godblast

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comic_book

Go read them.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comic_book

Go read them.

great counterargument to my point!

Originally posted by masterbruce
great counterargument to my point!

I agree!

Originally posted by masterbruce
So Mag is focusin on taking Caps shield? that'll make it even easier for Thor to oneshot him with a godblast

Ya know, I know it's hard fo you to comprehend multitasking. But believe it or not, Magneto can do several things at once.

Or he can simply unleash a massive magnetic storm wrecking havoc to any metal objects in the vicinity. Like Cap's shield.

Mags is smart. He would know the value of Cap's shield (and how utterly defenseless he is without it)

And Mags wouldn't allow Thor the time to charge up a godblast.

This battle REALLY is Thor vs. Magneto, Juggernaut, and Apoc. His teammates can't do shit to any of them....

Originally posted by Draco69
Ya know, I know it's hard fo you to comprehend multitasking. But believe it or not, Magneto can do several things at once.

Or he can simply unleash a massive magnetic storm wrecking havoc to any metal objects in the vicinity. Like Cap's shield.

Mags is smart. He would know the value of Cap's shield (and how utterly defenseless he is without it)

And Mags wouldn't allow Thor the time to charge up a godblast.

This battle REALLY is Thor vs. Magneto, Juggernaut, and Apoc. His teammates can't do shit to any of them....

Captain America ISN'T utterly defenseless without his shield. And it doesn't surprise me at all that you think Iron Man is a non-factor here.

Originally posted by Innerhype
Captain America ISN'T utterly defenseless without his shield. And it doesn't surprise me at all that you think Iron Man is a non-factor here.

Against the trio he's facing? Absolutely. His shield is the only thing keeping his a$$ in the fight for more than a minute.

Iron Man can't do shit against Juggernaut. That's out.

Magneto is the worst possible foe he can take on.

The only one he can do any reputable damage against is Apoc....before he curbstomps him.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Juggernaut can just stand there and be a staller for Cap actually. In fact, why would Juggy even waste his time on Cap? He would go after Thor. And, as history has shown on a few occassions, Juggernaut defeats Thor.

Cap is the weakest link. Good guys are pretty screwed here. The first party would be Cap stalling him.
Why would Juggs stall Cap, really, think about this one...

History has shown on a few occasions, that Thor has 2 wins against Juggs, and an upgraded Juggs has 1 win.

Weakest link is overating him. Cap is only a distraction in this fight, until someone touches him, then he is dead.

Originally posted by masterbruce
I dont think Juggs can take out Caps unless they fight for a couple of days and Cap starts slowing down. Grand, profiled.

Listen Cap is dead. point blank. I don't care who he is none of these guys he can take alone. He can at best dodge Juggy's punches and give his teammates time to take care of the other two but in the end. its Thor and IM alone against Juggy

Originally posted by bigbran
The first party would be Cap stalling him.
Why would Juggs stall Cap, really, think about this one...

History has shown on a few occasions, that Thor has 2 wins against Juggs, and an upgraded Juggs has 1 win.

Weakest link is overating him. Cap is only a distraction in this fight, until someone touches him, then he is dead.

I thought Juggy had more wins against Thor than the other way around.

Originally posted by Metalmanx
I thought Juggy had more wins against Thor than the other way around. Those are the fights that I know that happened, and I'm really sure, that there aren't any more...

The first fight, had Thor using a godblast, and then transporting him to another dimension.

Second fight had Thor turning off his enchantments, breaking his helmet, and then making him grab his hammer, so he could bring him far out to outer space.

Third fight had 8th Day Juggy, dominating him.

Ah. Battlefield removals. Eh. Kinda victories, but not really.