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Okay, this may sound weird, but I was debating with this guy who said that the Ultimate Nullifier was more poweful than the Infinity Gauntlet, and I showed him the comic from Infinity War where the Magus easily defeated the UN using only an incomplete IG, but he said that he knew that already. However, he said that if Quasar had used the UN to target the universe itself, instead of the Magus specifically, the Magus wouldn't have been able to stop it and would have been killed.

Is there any truth to this?

No.

The IG>The UN

Originally posted by Galan007
No.

The IG>The UN

That is not true. There are other realities where the IG is complete and in full use. Yet those realities were destroyed as well when the UN was use to remake the Multiverse.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That is not true. There are other realities where the IG is complete and in full use. Yet those realities were destroyed as well when the UN was use to remake the Multiverse. what are you talking about?

even an Incomplete IG snuffed out the UN...

Originally posted by Galan007
what are you talking about?

even an Incomplete IG snuffed out the UN...

Yeah in what if issues, we are shown OTHER IG's. There is only ONE UN. or two if youcount the one Korvac used to destroy his universe.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Yeah in what if issues, we are shown OTHER IG's. There is only ONE UN. or two if youcount the one Korvac used to destroy his universe. Infinity War is non-cannon now?

IG>UN

No matter where you aim at with the UN, an Incomplete IG will control the energies before they are even released.

So imagine a full blown IG.

Originally posted by Mr Master
IG>UN

No matter where you aim at with the UN, an Incomplete IG will control the energies before they are even released.

So imagine a full blown IG.

Before they are released. Lets see the IG atually take a blast from the Un and absorb it or deflect it. Then you got an Ig that is more powerful than the UN. Until then, You just have an IG that did a pre=emptive stike before the UN was actually fired.

IG controls all cosmical forces, the wielder of the gauntlet don't want the UN to work, and it don't.

Maybe the more appropriate line of thinking is to wonder if the Infinity Gauntlet's bearer were to be hit by the full brunt of the UN's energies, what would occur? Would he and the Gauntlet be ultimately nullified or survive unscathed?

And in the reverse, what would happen if the Infinity Gauntlet's bearer were to wish the non-existence of the UN away through the Reality Gem? What would occur? Would the UN be subject to the whims of reality or is it a constant of pure existence that could never be utterly destroyed?

I've seen Adam Warock exist and operate outside the IG's influence, so the idea that the UN operating in a similar manner is not a foreign concept to me. Now with reference to the Quasar scan... just because I'm a Sentinel and can shut off Magneto's power, does not make me more powerful per se, than Magneto. In fact, such a supposition would be absurd. I just found a way around Magneto. Same way Black Alice stole Spectre's power in 'Day of Vengeance.' Just because she made Spectre's power her plaything doesn't equate to her being more powerful than Spectre. So anyway... I don't think any answer is forthcoming and 'Infinity War' looked at in this light is inconclusive but swings towards the IG's dominance. Personally, I think Jim Starlin creams his pants with his invention of the IG and considers the UN to be boring. Meh.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Before they are released. Lets see the IG atually take a blast from the Un and absorb it or deflect it. Then you got an Ig that is more powerful than the UN.

WE have an IG and an Incomplete IG that is more powerful than the UN.


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Until then, You just have an IG that did a pre=emptive stike before the UN was actually fired.

That's where your wrong.

The UN was fired, the UN released it's Energies and Magus controlled them completely.

Magus controlled the Energies as they came out of the UN, that's why I said before they were even released.

Originally posted by Mr Master
WE have an IG and an Incomplete IG that is more powerful than the UN.




That's where your wrong.

The UN was fired, the UN released it's Energies and Magus controlled them completely.

Magus controlled the Energies as they came out of the UN, that's why I said before they were even released.

He did not control the energies. He could have swapped Quasars place with the space gem and put him in the way of the blast. He could have twisted space around so that the blast actually blasted back on itself. He had the mind gem so he knew what quasar was going to do. When The UN is activated to destroy the Multiverse, and the IG actually stops it from happening, or is shown taking a blast from the UN and shaking it off or absorbing it, then it is superior to the UN. Until then, all of ur wishing the IG was superior is speculative. Actuallly I can do you one better. Eternity in the SINGULAR didn't want the Ig to be used in conjuction becuz the wearer of the guantlet would take HIS place in the hierarchy of the Universe. PERIOD. HIS place and HIS ONLY.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Maybe the more appropriate line of thinking is to wonder if the Infinity Gauntlet's bearer were to be hit by the full brunt of the UN's energies, what would occur? Would he and the Gauntlet be ultimately nullified or survive unscathed?

Probably the same thing that happened to him when all the Cosmics attacked him at once, followed by Eternity, the power of the Universe, who also attacked Thanos with everything he had and lost like a child.


Alternate IGs seem to be destructible, like the one Surfer had, in the end Surfer put his IG in self destruct mode.

The 616 IG has never been destroyed, and the Gems had to be dispersed, instead of obliterated.

Again, showing me that Alternate IGs are not as powerful as the 616 IG.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And in the reverse, what would happen if the Infinity Gauntlet's bearer were to wish the non-existence of the UN away through the Reality Gem? What would occur? Would the UN be subject to the whims of reality or is it a constant of pure existence that could never be utterly destroyed?

The UN would be erased if the IG wanted.

When Korvac used it to erase an Alternate Universe, that UN seemed to be erased aswell.

When Morg released it's Energies inside Big G's Ship, it was seemingly erased there too.

When Galactus used it, it wiped itself out.


Galactus can use it like Darkseid's OE.


and Reed used it to erase and create a new Multi-verse.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Now with reference to the Quasar scan... just because I'm a Sentinel and can shut off Magneto's power, does not make me more powerful per se, than Magneto. In fact, such a supposition would be absurd. I just found a way around Magneto. Same way Black Alice stole Spectre's power in 'Day of Vengeance.' Just because she made Spectre's power her plaything doesn't equate to her being more powerful than Spectre. So anyway... I don't think any answer is forthcoming and 'Infinity War' looked at in this light is inconclusive but swings towards the IG's dominance. Personally, I think Jim Starlin creams his pants with his invention of the IG and considers the UN to be boring. Meh.

I don't know the details behind Alice's case, or this Sentinel.

I do know that a character with a Universal Consciousness, Cosmic Awareness, fired a weapon that releases Energies that ERASE Universes like nothing, and those Energies that erase Universes was controlled like a child's toy by an Incomplete IG.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Probably the same thing that happened to him when all the Cosmics attacked him at once, followed by Eternity, the power of the Universe, who also attacked Thanos with everything he had and lost like a child.You're suggesting that Eternity, the power of the Universe is cimparable to the UN. If that is the case, then you're contradicting yourself. We've seen what the UN does to Multi-Eternity.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Alternate IGs seem to be destructible, like the one Surfer had, in the end Surfer put his IG in self destruct mode.

The 616 IG has never been destroyed, and the Gems had to be dispersed, instead of obliterated.

Again, showing me that Alternate IGs are not as powerful as the 616 IG.If you want us to take Reed Richards' words literally where he states everything was ended. Does that not presuppose that the Infinity Gems were also ended? You were a strong proponent of taking Reed Richards words literally, because you needed to show a destruction and subsequent creation of all existence rather than a mere manipulation of existencve to prove that the threat of Abraxas took precedence over the threat of Parallax.
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/7392/earthalignment39jd.th.jpg
So you need to explain to me what your position is. Does everything there mean literally everything, or everything excluding the Infinity Gems? The latter appears to be what you're suggesting and seems awfully convenient.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The UN would be erased if the IG wanted.

When Korvac used it to erase an Alternate Universe, that UN seemed to be erased aswell.

When Morg released it's Energies inside Big G's Ship, it was seemingly erased there too.

When Galactus used it, it wiped itself out.I thought you had pointed out that the UN always reappears. Are you suggesting that in any of those instances, that the UN was wiped from existence? Clearly it keeps reappearing. Clarifying my point, UN energies hit IG bearer. Does he get ultimately nullified? If so, does he simply reappear again? And the reverse position, IG bearer wishes the UN to be wiped from existence utterly. Does it disappear? If so, does it simply reappear again?
Originally posted by Mr Master
I don't know the details behind Alice's case, or this Sentinel.

I do know that a character with a Universal Consciousness, Cosmic Awareness, fired a weapon that releases Energies that ERASE Universes like nothing, and those Energies that erase Universes was controlled like a child's toy by an Incomplete IG. You don't need to know the details. Facts are simple, Black Alice is a normal teenager who happens to have the power to steal another being's magic for herself for a limited time. She did it to Fate and recently stole all of Spectre's power in 'Day of Vengeance.' Spectre was reduced to an intangible ghost form. In that instance, I don't believe anybody would suggest that Black Alice was more powerful than Spectre. Yet, she did make the Spectre's power her plaything. So by your logic, which is quoted directly above, making one's power your own plaything presupposes dominance.

I don't believe that is correct. It flies in the face of obviousness in the Black Alice case and is too convenient on your part. I could for conveniency's sake conclude that, since the UN destroyed and recreated the entire Multiverse and the IG only created and duplicated one universe, the UN is greater through simple on-panel feat. However, that ignores the crux of the debate. Personally, I see the UN literally and completely nullifying the Infinity Gems from existence and they wouldn't come back. However, the UN would come back from the IG wishing it away, because we've seen the UN always come back. Your response?

Protege could beat the living tribunal.

Does that mean Protege is stronger then LT? No.

The IG>UN

It would be interesting to see an UN wielder vs one with the IG. Won't happen because of the ruling by the ommipotent Living Tribunal

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're suggesting that Eternity, the power of the Universe is cimparable to the UN. If that is the case, then you're contradicting yourself. We've seen what the UN does to Multi-Eternity.

Your saying they are comparable, NOT me.

I said, "SAME THING that happened to Thanos"

What happened to Thanos when he was attacked?

Nothing, (that's what would happen ... Nothing)


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
If you want us to take Reed Richards' words literally where he states everything was ended. Does that not presuppose that the Infinity Gems were also ended?

Like I told you already, There are NO Gautlet's FORMED, NONE, NADA!!

SO the Universes that do have Gems, perhaps those Gems are destroyed when said Universe is destroyed.

But STOP comparing the Infinity GEMS, with the Infinity GAUNTLET, two completely DIFFERENT sets of Power.


ONLY the Living Tribunal has been able to stand up to the 616 Infinity Gauntlet.

and there have been ONLY TWO other Universes where Infinity Gauntlets have appeared, and they were WEAKER Gauntlets at that.



Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You were a strong proponent of taking Reed Richards words literally, because you needed to show a destruction and subsequent creation of all existence rather than a mere manipulation of existencve to prove that the threat of Abraxas took precedence over the threat of Parallax.

hum


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So you need to explain to me what your position is. Does everything there mean literally everything, or everything excluding the Infinity Gems? The latter appears to be what you're suggesting and seems awfully convenient.

Because your still stuck on there are Infinity Gems in every Universe, plus they have formed Gauntlets too.

NOT every Universe has Infinity Gems.

and ever since the Living Tribunal spoke his judgement, there have been NO Gauntlets ANYWHERE.

And as for those Universes that do have atleast the Infinity Gems, well ...the Gems on their own are microscopic in power vs the Gauntlet they form.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I thought you had pointed out that the UN always reappears.

Don't know what your talking about.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Are you suggesting that in any of those instances, that the UN was wiped from existence?

I never seen the UN lingering around after a Universe was rubbed out by it.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Clearly it keeps reappearing.

Clearly it does not.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Clarifying my point, UN energies hit IG bearer. Does he get ultimately nullified? If so, does he simply reappear again?

No.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And the reverse position, IG bearer wishes the UN to be wiped from existence utterly. Does it disappear? If so, does it simply reappear again?

No.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So by your logic, which is quoted directly above, making one's power your own plaything presupposes dominance.

Yes.

If Black Alice can do that, then without PIS she can kill Spectre, and that's that.
So yes, she is more powerful than Spectre. (Unless there's a catch your not telling me)

IG made the UN it's b*tch.

IG>UN


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't believe that is correct. It flies in the face of obviousness in the Black Alice case and is too convenient on your part.

If Black Alice can steal Spectre's power, and then ravage Reality with it including Spectre, then she is more powerful than Spectre.

If she can steal his power but do nothing with it, it's a bunch of PIS and not worth discussing.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I could for conveniency's sake conclude that, since the UN destroyed and recreated the entire Multiverse and the IG only created and duplicated one universe, the UN is greater through simple on-panel feat. However, that ignores the crux of the debate.

The crux of the matter is that an INCOMPLETE IG owned the UN, after the UN was fired.

There's no getting around that.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Personally, I see the UN literally and completely nullifying the Infinity Gems from existence and they wouldn't come back. However, the UN would come back from the IG wishing it away, because we've seen the UN always come back. Your response?

Well first I disagree, and secondly where are you getting this UN coming back thingy?

When Korvac erased a Universe the UN was erased aswell.

When Galactus erased a Universe the UN was erased aswell.

When Morg released it's Energies within Galactus's Ship, the UN was erased.


Oh and btw, the 616 Infinity Gems were in the Ultraverse (a Universe within another Multi-verse) by the time Reed remade the Prime Multi-verse.

"I must retrive the Infinity Gems before the Portal closes"
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6799/7fq9.th.jpg
"I failed to keep the Infinity Gems from falling into this New Universe" (the Ultraverse, which is within a separate Multi-verse.


The Infinity Gauntlet has ONLY been seen in TWO other Universes beside 616, the Impossible Man had a Gauntlet and lost it to Galactus. (Impossible Man couldn't eve create a Planet with this IG)

And Surfer had one and destroyed it with the same Gauntlet. (Eternity never noticed Surfer with this IG)

The 616 IG has never been destroyed.

Originally posted by Mr Master



The Infinity Gauntlet has ONLY been seen in TWO other Universes beside 616, the Impossible Man had a Gauntlet and lost it to Galactus. (Impossible Man couldn't eve create a Planet with this IG)

And Surfer had one and destroyed it with the same Gauntlet. (Eternity never noticed Surfer with this IG)

The 616 IG has never been destroyed.

YOu know your completely wrong. That entire book showed that the Imp man's IG was as powerful as the 616's. That is why they didnt' want him to have it. He was destroying Solar system's with stray thoughts. Your trying to lessen the fact that there is more than one IG. You are tatking your rather subjective view of that story to further your own goal of establishing this hierarchy that you have set in order to appear the difinitive go to guy on all things marvel. I'm not buying it. You do realize that that alternate timeline was the SAME damn IG plit into two. that is why it was an alternate timeline. NOt a differnt entire reality.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
YOu know your completely wrong. That entire book showed that the Imp man's IG was as powerful as the 616's.

Go ahead and PROVE it dogs, don't just come out your face without a shred of evidence, expecting others to take your word on it.


In The Impossible Man's case it's an extremely WEAKER version of the IG

Here Impossible Man RUNS away from the Cosmics with the Infinity Gauntlet...Surfer even warns him about Eternity....
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/8502/im1kr0.th.jpg



Again...this really demonstrates how weak this OTHER Infinity Gauntlet is.

Here Impossible Man makes a deal with Galactus to help him Re-create his home world...and Silver Surfer is worried because Eternity is coming...who will crush Impossible Man and his Gauntlet.
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4087/im4ll5.th.jpg


Here after Galactus Re-created Impossible Man's world... IM. actually bargained the Gauntlet for this.....because he couldn't even Re-create a Planet.
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/379/im5vr0.th.jpg


Do your research buddy.


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That is why they didnt' want him to have it. He was destroying Solar system's with stray thoughts.

Untrue.


Impossible Man NEVER once in that issue blew up a Solar System, a Galaxy or even a Planet for that matter.

Silver Surfer said, he COULD destroy a Galaxy, but Impossible Man NEVER did it.

Funny how he COULDN'T even create a Planet though.

And even destroying a Galaxy is nothing with what you could accomplish with the 616 IG.


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Your trying to lessen the fact that there is more than one IG. You are tatking your rather subjective view of that story to further your own goal of establishing this hierarchy that you have set in order to appear the difinitive go to guy on all things marvel.

Well, if you can SHOW anyone a moment when,

Impossible Man "was destroying Solar system's with stray thoughts" as YOU said,

(Instead of an Imp that couldn't even create a SINGLE Planet)


OR

where in the,

"entire book showed that the Imp man's IG was as powerful as the 616's" as YOU said,

(Instead of an Imp that was running for his life from Eternity throughout the ENTIRE book, and finally couldn't even create a single Planet)


You may have something, UNTIL then,

Don't tell me I'm taking any,

"rather subjective views of ANY story to further ANY goals"...


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I'm not buying it.

Inconsequential.


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You do realize that that alternate timeline was the SAME damn IG plit into two. that is why it was an alternate timeline. NOt a differnt entire reality.

Not true,

In Marvel not all Realities/Universes are exactly the same.

Again, research before striking.

There are Universes, MANY Universes where the IG doesn't exist for whatever reason.

Here are 9 Alternate Universes within the Prime Multi-verse:

http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/9601/1bh7.th.jpg

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7655/2sj0.th.jpg

These are different (Alternate) Earths in different (Alternate) Universes, as you can see sometimes the Fantastic Four don't even have powers, they are entirely different Realities, with different outcomes in their History.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Go ahead and PROVE it dogs, don't just come out your face without a shred of evidence, expecting others to take your word on it.


In The Impossible Man's case it's an extremely WEAKER version of the IG

Here Impossible Man RUNS away from the Cosmics with the Infinity Gauntlet...Surfer even warns him about Eternity....
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/8502/im1kr0.th.jpg



Again...this really demonstrates how weak this OTHER Infinity Gauntlet is.

Here Impossible Man makes a deal with Galactus to help him Re-create his home world...and Silver Surfer is worried because Eternity is coming...who will crush Impossible Man and his Gauntlet.
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4087/im4ll5.th.jpg


Here after Galactus Re-created Impossible Man's world... IM. actually bargained the Gauntlet for this.....because he couldn't even Re-create a Planet.
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/379/im5vr0.th.jpg


Do your research buddy.




Untrue.


Impossible Man NEVER once in that issue blew up a Solar System, a Galaxy or even a Planet for that matter.

Silver Surfer said, he COULD destroy a Galaxy, but Impossible Man NEVER did it.

Funny how he COULDN'T even create a Planet though.

And even destroying a Galaxy is nothing with what you could accomplish with the 616 IG.




Well, if you can SHOW anyone a moment when,

Impossible Man "was destroying Solar system's with stray thoughts" as YOU said,

(Instead of an Imp that couldn't even create a SINGLE Planet)


OR

where in the,

"entire book showed that the Imp man's IG was as powerful as the 616's" as YOU said,

(Instead of an Imp that was running for his life from Eternity throughout the ENTIRE book, and finally couldn't even create a single Planet)


You may have something, UNTIL then,

Don't tell me I'm taking any,

"rather subjective views of ANY story to further ANY goals"...




Inconsequential.




Not true,

In Marvel not all Realities/Universes are exactly the same.

Again, research before striking.

There are Universes, MANY Universes where the IG doesn't exist for whatever reason.

Here are 9 Alternate Universes within the Prime Multi-verse:

http://img336.imageshack.us/img336/9601/1bh7.th.jpg

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/7655/2sj0.th.jpg

These are different (Alternate) Earths in different (Alternate) Universes, as you can see sometimes the Fantastic Four don't even have powers, they are entirely different Realities, with different outcomes in their History.

You do realize you are hurting your own case. this entire argument you present no where shows that that IG was weaker. It only shows that the Impossible man lacked the intelligence to correctly use the IG. you lose. Also, the reason Eternity wanted the IG is the same, It was a threat to his sovereingty. If it wasn't then why would big G want to hurry and get it out of the hands of the Populan if it was so weak? I just love the way you can use subjective scans to prove your point. The same guantlet shows The Imp man destroying a solarsystem by accident with a stray thought

Yeah thats what it seems like. Its like giving a child a machine gun...he wont know how to kill as many people as an older person.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You do realize you are hurting your own case.

No, I only realize how you don't address any points and continue to dance around the debate.


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
this entire argument you present no where shows that that IG was weaker. It only shows that the Impossible man lacked the intelligence to correctly use the IG. you lose.

That's your speculation, the issue never questioned the IM's intelligence, and his power was speculated on by Surfer who said he could destroy a Galaxy.

Don't tell me that if Pip the Troll went bananas with Cosmic Containment Units, and was wishing himself anything he wanted, that IM wouldn't know how to do that.


At most, based on the Surfer's speculation, the IM could destroy a Galaxy.

Based on Fact, the IM couldn't even create a single Planet.


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Also, the reason Eternity wanted the IG is the same, It was a threat to his sovereingty. If it wasn't then why would big G want to hurry and get it out of the hands of the Populan if it was so weak?

Eternity was coming to get them because the Eternity of that Universe (which is NOT 616) wants them for himself.

If IM was such a threat, Eternity could pop up infront of IM at any time in any place, are you kiddin?


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I just love the way you can use subjective scans to prove your point.

I just love how you debate issues without reviewing them.


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The same guantlet shows The Imp man destroying a solarsystem by accident with a stray thought

This is now a lie,

cause I already corrected you before, and here you are still claiming that IM destroyed a Solar System, when IM didn't even destroy a Planet.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Go ahead and PROVE it dogs, don't just come out your face without a shred of evidence, expecting others to take your word on it.


In The Impossible Man's case it's an extremely WEAKER version of the IG

Here Impossible Man RUNS away from the Cosmics with the Infinity Gauntlet...Surfer even warns him about Eternity....
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/8502/im1kr0.th.jpg



Again...this really demonstrates how weak this OTHER Infinity Gauntlet is.

Here Impossible Man makes a deal with Galactus to help him Re-create his home world...and Silver Surfer is worried because Eternity is coming...who will crush Impossible Man and his Gauntlet.
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4087/im4ll5.th.jpg


Here after Galactus Re-created Impossible Man's world... IM. actually bargained the Gauntlet for this.....because he couldn't even Re-create a Planet.
http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/379/im5vr0.th.jpg
Thats great!

What comic(s) are those scans from Mr M?

Originally posted by Mordum
Yeah thats what it seems like. Its like giving a child a machine gun...he wont know how to kill as many people as an older person.

And yet the Surfer Surfer (an older person) wasn't even noticed by Eternity when he acquired the Infinity Gauntlet in that Alternate Universe. (a What If, just like IM)

Infact, Eternity wasn't even mentioned once, in the entire book.

Originally posted by Mr Master
No, I only realize how you don't address any points and continue to dance around the debate.




That's your speculation, the issue never questioned the IM's intelligence, and his power was speculated on by Surfer who said he could destroy a Galaxy.

Don't tell me that if Pip the Troll went bananas with Cosmic Containment Units, and was wishing himself anything he wanted, that IM wouldn't know how to do that.


At most, based on the Surfer's speculation, the IM could destroy a Galaxy.

Based on Fact, the IM couldn't even create a single Planet.




Eternity was coming to get them because the Eternity of that Universe (which is NOT 616) wants them for himself.

If IM was such a threat, Eternity could pop up infront of IM at any time in any place, are you kiddin?




I just love how you debate issues without reviewing them.




This is now a lie,

cause I already corrected you before, and here you are still claiming that IM destroyed a Solar System, when IM didn't even destroy a Planet.

Mr. Master you are such a sham. you used the very same argument against me a while ago that the Populan could only destroy a solar system. That is where I get the reference from. You are like a lawyer. you know the truth but with hold it just so you look good. fake and phony and only intersted in winning the argument, not presenting the truth. only intersted in your opinion. You are saying I have no proof that the Populan was dumb, but you have no proof at all that the Ig was weaker. Yet you give subjective review and call it fact becuz your the"master". We dont' knwo if the Ig was weaker of if the Populan was too dumb to use it correctly. Given the orginal story, that this one spun out of, and is in fact an alternate time line of the same IG story, one would have to surmise that the most obvious is that the IMp didn't know how to use the IG.

Originally posted by Galan007
Thats great!

What comic(s) are those scans from Mr M?

What if v2 #104

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Mr. Master you are such a sham.

If this is the end result of your responses, we're done.


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
you used the very same argument against me a while ago that the Populan could only destroy a solar system. That is where I get the reference from.

You should have payed attention then, cause I never said he did destroy a Galaxy, I always said Surfer SAID he could.


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You are like a lawyer. you know the truth but with hold it just so you look good. fake and phony and only intersted in winning the argument, not presenting the truth. only intersted in your opinion.

blahblah



Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You are saying I have no proof that the Populan was dumb, but you have no proof at all that the Ig was weaker.

There is no proof that IM was dumb.

There is proof that IM's IG was weaker than the 616 IG.

IM's IG couldn't even create a single Planet.


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Yet you give subjective review and call it fact becuz your the"master".

That's only you swinging on my nuts, cause nobody else is making a fuss of my screen name, your the one advertising my name on thread titles, I didn't think it deserved a response.



Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
We dont' knwo if the Ig was weaker of if the Populan was too dumb to use it correctly. Given the orginal story, that this one spun out of, and is in fact an alternate time line of the same IG story, one would have to surmise that the most obvious is that the IMp didn't know how to use the IG.

That would be your summation,

On Panel the IG couldn't create a single Planet, end of story.

And Surfer's IG wasn't even noticed by Eternity, not even noticed when Surfer cried out in an empty bravado he was going to remake the Universe.

Originally posted by Mr Master
If this is the end result of your responses, we're done.




You should have payed attention then, cause I never said he did destroy a Galaxy, I always said Surfer SAID he could.




blahblah





There is no proof that IM was dumb.

There is proof that IM's IG was weaker than the 616 IG.

IM's IG couldn't even create a single Planet.




That's only you swinging on my nuts, cause nobody else is making a fuss of my screen name, your the one advertising my name on thread titles, I didn't think it deserved a response.





That would be your summation,

On Panel the IG couldn't create a single Planet, end of story.

And Surfer's IG wasn't even noticed by Eternity, not even noticed when Surfer cried out in an empty bravado he was going to remake the Universe.

Now prove that the Imp man was smart enough to create a plante and couldn't becuz the IG was weaker.Cuz right now all your doing is trying to force your opinion with no proof at all. Your not proving that the populan was smart enough to create a planet. You have no proof. To the contrary, the populan is shown as a child with a child's mind. This lend credance to my proposal that mr imp didn't know how to use the IG. What the hell would that Realities eternity want with an Ig that can't even create a planet huh? Your argument doesn't hold water. And in that scan that you put up, The IMP man did destroy a solar system. It showed it in the far distance of the scan.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Now prove that the Imp man was smart enough to create a plante and couldn't becuz the IG was weaker.Cuz right now all your doing is trying to force your opinion with no proof at all. Your not proving that the populan was smart enough to create a planet. You have no proof. To the contrary, the populan is shown as a child with a child's mind. This lend credance to my proposal that mr imp didn't know how to use the IG.

firefirefireph


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
What the hell would that Realities eternity want with an Ig that can't even create a planet huh? Your argument doesn't hold water.

Go ask the Writers, the reasons Eternity wanted the IG are never explained.

All we have is the IM's abilities and capabilities depicted and mentioned in the book, and according to the book, IM could potentially destroy a Solar System, Surfer said he could but IM never did.

And IM not being able to create a Planet.

IM trapped Galactus, that was impressive, created an imaginary Zen-La for Surfer,

and created a real Planet with Galactus's help.
http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/1573/prb3.th.jpg

That's it, oh, and IM evading Eternity through out the issue.


Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
And in that scan that you put up, The IMP man did destroy a solar system. It showed it in the far distance of the scan.



I really wonder where you got this from.

Originally posted by Mr Master
firefirefireph




Go ask the Writers, the reasons Eternity wanted the IG are never explained.

All we have is the IM's abilities and capabilities depicted and mentioned in the book, and according to the book, IM could potentially destroy a Galaxy, Surfer said he could but IM never did.

And IM not being able to create a Planet.

IM trapped Galactus, that was impressive, created an imaginary Zen-La for Surfer,

and created a real Planet with Galactus's help.
http://img450.imageshack.us/img450/1573/prb3.th.jpg

That's it, oh, and IM running for his life from Eternity through out the issue.








When it's something you can't explain, it's go ask the writers. Every thing you mention as part of the Imp man doing with the guantlet he's done to a lessor degree with his own powers. So that is not showing me that he had the intelligence to create a planet. He's ran from people before using his own pop up powers. So it is feasable for him to run from eternity using the guantlet. He does imaginary pranks all the time. It's feasable for him to create an illusion. And he pretends to be other beings all the time. So him trapping the big is nothing out of his ordinary intelligence pattern. Him creating a new planet full of life, is well out of his intelligence pattern. But not out of big G's. Big G made Tryant for goodness sake. So i'm not convinced.

Didn't Thanos say that when Nebula got the Gauntlet that anyone, no matter how dumb they were, would eventually take over the universe and beat Eternity if they had it?

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Didn't Thanos say that when Nebula got the Gauntlet that anyone, no matter how dumb they were, would eventually take over the universe and beat Eternity if they had it?

Eventually yes. EVENTUALLY. Which is why Eternity wanted it before THe populan learned how to use it. It was just as powerful as the 616 IG.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
When it's something you can't explain, it's go ask the writers.

If there is no explanation, then I go by what is depicted.

Unlike yourself who loves to speculate away, in a fairytale manner of the events of said occurance.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Every thing you mention as part of the Imp man doing with the guantlet he's done to a lessor degree with his own powers. So that is not showing me that he had the intelligence to create a planet. He's ran from people before using his own pop up powers. So it is feasable for him to run from eternity using the guantlet. He does imaginary pranks all the time. It's feasable for him to create an illusion. And he pretends to be other beings all the time. So him trapping the big is nothing out of his ordinary intelligence pattern. Him creating a new planet full of life, is well out of his intelligence pattern. But not out of big G's. Big G made Tryant for goodness sake. So i'm not convinced.

This entire paragraph says nothing, to add or even subtract from your argument, it simply has nothing to do with the facts.

He could've this, and he could've that, but the bottom line is IM NEVER destroyed a Planet let alone a Solar System during this issue.
And IM needed Galactus's help to create a Universe, period.



And when Surfer had the IG from another Universe, he wasn't even noticed by Eternity, heck, Eternity wasn't even mentioned.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Didn't Thanos say that when Nebula got the Gauntlet that anyone, no matter how dumb they were, would eventually take over the universe and beat Eternity if they had it?

Nebula had the 616 IG.

IM did not, and niether did Surfer, the ONLY TWO other IGs ever seen.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Eventually yes. EVENTUALLY. Which is why Eternity wanted it before THe populan learned how to use it. It was just as powerful as the 616 IG.

Research, and all things will be known to you.

Nebula had the 616 IG, so that settles that.

You have NO idea why Eternity wanted that IG, none at all.

When Surfer had his IG, he wasn't even noticed by Eternity.

Originally posted by Mr Master
If there is no explanation, then I go by what is depicted.

Unlike yourself who loves to speculate away, in a fairytale manner of the events of said occurance.


This entire paragraph says nothing, to add or even subtract from your argument, it simply has nothing to do with the facts.

He could've this, and he could've that, but the bottom line is IM NEVER destroyed a Planet let alone a Solar System during this issue.
And IM needed Galactus's help to create a Universe, period.



And when Surfer had the IG from another Universe, he wasn't even noticed by Eternity, heck, Eternity wasn't even mentioned.

You never proved why Eternity wanted the IG if it coudln't even create a planet.

You Also have mentioned the surfer IG thing when that has nothing to do with this debate.

You have not proven that the IG was less powerful than the other. The only thing you proved was that a severly less intelligent than thanos Imp man used it in ways that are condusive to his character.

Galactus used the IG to create a planet easily.

I just want to know why Eternity wanted that IG so bad if it couldn't even create a planet? There are beings in the MU who are more powerful than this weak version of the IG you claim to be showing us.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Your saying they are comparable, NOT me.

I said, "SAME THING that happened to Thanos"

What happened to Thanos when he was attacked?

Nothing, (that's what would happen ... Nothing)Problem is, if you want me to accept this supposition, then you're referencing by analogy that: 1) Eternity didn't destroy Thanos w/IG when he assaulted him; so if 2) The UN assaulted Thanos; then 3) The UN probably won't destroy Thanos w/ IG. Now how did you jump from 2 to 3? The only way is by assuming a premise: 2b) The UN is either comparable or weaker than Eternity. That completes the logical supposition you're making. And like I said, how could you possibly compare the UN's power to Eternity's power? We've seen the UN destroy and recreate Multi-Eternity. Your assumption makes no sense and without it, your supposition is baseless.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Like I told you already, There are NO Gautlet's FORMED, NONE, NADA!!

SO the Universes that do have Gems, perhaps those Gems are destroyed when said Universe is destroyed.

But STOP comparing the Infinity GEMS, with the Infinity GAUNTLET, two completely DIFFERENT sets of Power.

ONLY the Living Tribunal has been able to stand up to the 616 Infinity Gauntlet.

and there have been ONLY TWO other Universes where Infinity Gauntlets have appeared, and they were WEAKER Gauntlets at that.You are still avoiding my point. I don't particularly care about other realities' Infinity Gems. I care about the 616 Infinity Gems. Let me make that clear, in no way do I care about what other alternate Infinity Gems might are or how they might be affected. Others may argue that the alternate IG's were just as powerful. I am not arguing that.Originally posted by Mr Master

humNo need to be confused. I was reiterating your argument in the "Parallax vs Abraxas" thread. It's your argument. Either way, both you and I agree, the 616 UN destroyed "everything" and recreated "everything." What you must clarify, is whether the 616 Infinity Gems were included in this "everything."
Originally posted by Mr Master
Because your still stuck on there are Infinity Gems in every Universe, plus they have formed Gauntlets too.

NOT every Universe has Infinity Gems.

and ever since the Living Tribunal spoke his judgement, there have been NO Gauntlets ANYWHERE.Again, don't care about alternate IG.
Originally posted by Mr Master
And as for those Universes that do have atleast the Infinity Gems, well ...the Gems on their own are microscopic in power vs the Gauntlet they form.Ah. So this is the crux of your opinion. Extremely weak, but I shall address it later at a more appropriate point after dealing with the rest of your post.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Don't know what your talking about.You cited in the Mr. Mxy vs Galactus thread that the 616 UN also kept reappearing in his ship after its uses. I agree.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I never seen the UN lingering around after a Universe was rubbed out by it.I don't care about alternate universes, only 616. Are you saying that the 616 UN has destroyed itself and not recreated itself the same way it destroyed "everything" and recreated "everything?" That is an extremely poor assumption. If that was the case, than surely Reed would have explained that after the 616 UN recreated everything, "Oddly enough. Although everything has been restored.. the UN itself has not." I think it is more than logical, indeed inherent and explicit in Reeds' words that the 616 UN is part of the "everything" that was recreated.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Clearly it does not.Then please explain to me why you think the 616 UN was permanently destroyed.
Originally posted by Mr Master
No.

No.Are you taking a neutral position on this? Please pick a position.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Yes.

If Black Alice can do that, then without PIS she can kill Spectre, and that's that.
So yes, she is more powerful than Spectre. (Unless there's a catch your not telling me)

IG made the UN it's b*tch.

IG>UN

If Black Alice can steal Spectre's power, and then ravage Reality with it including Spectre, then she is more powerful than Spectre.

If she can steal his power but do nothing with it, it's a bunch of PIS and not worth discussing.She took Spectre's power in 'Day of Vengeance' and immediately proceeded to wield it as the new divine engine of wrath. She turned all Spectre-like in a sexy yellow-black outfit and started bringing the whup-ass on Eclipso. There was no "The power is too much to control!" She just started using it. Therefore, I shall ask again, knowing this much: "Do you think Black Alice is more powerful than Spectre?"
Originally posted by Mr Master
The crux of the matter is that an INCOMPLETE IG owned the UN, after the UN was fired.

There's no getting around that.Actually, only in your mind is this the crux of the matter. I believe what you're purporting is an utter absurdity. Let us take some examples: 1) Apparently, Rogue is the most powerful mutant in your mind since she can absorb other people's powers and make them her own... even completely if she touches them long enough. 2) You also apparently think Parasite is the most powerful supervillain in DC since he can make Superman's powers his b1tch by absorbing his power. 3) And now apparently you think Black Alice, a normal teenager whose only power is the ability to usurp another's magic, is more powerful than Spectre.

I think the logical absurdities of your argument is self-evident. But if I have to, I will explain why they are absurd. Being able to circumvent another object's or being's power does not make you more powerful than that object or person. Therefore, Sentinels have always had the ability to generate a field that negates and nullifies mutants' powers, but that is merely a circumvention and as such, if you were to quantify or qualify a comparison between a single Sentinel and Magneto himself, you can clearly conclude that Magneto is more powerful than a single Sentinel. Quantitatively: Sentinel is powered by 10,000,000 watts of electricity while Magneto can power himself and wield 100,000,000 watts of electricity. Qualitatively: Sentinel can normally be beaten by Colossus while Magneto would normally beat Colossus. Another basis for comparison is the direct comparison: A Sentinel with all its power mustered against a Magneto all things considered equal would fail to kill him while Magneto with all his power mustered would easily destroy a Sentinel all things considered equal.

Circumvention by itself, is not a quantitative comparison nor is it a qualitiative comparison. It also cannot serve as a clear basis between what/who fundamentally overpowers what/who in a direct comparison because it completely circumvents it.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Well first I disagree, and secondly where are you getting this UN coming back thingy?From above, where I intuit that the 616 UN was recreated also with the multiverse. It also disappeared after its normal uses prior to that in 616 universe and as far as we've seen, it keeps reappearing in Galactus' ship.
Originally posted by Mr Master
When Korvac erased a Universe the UN was erased aswell...For someone who does not want to use alternate IG's, you seem quite willing to use alternate UN's.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Oh and btw, the 616 Infinity Gems were in the Ultraverse (a Universe within another Multi-verse) by the time Reed remade the Prime Multi-verse.

"I must retrive the Infinity Gems before the Portal closes"
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/6799/7fq9.th.jpg
"I failed to keep the Infinity Gems from falling into this New Universe" (the Ultraverse, which is within a separate Multi-verse.Marvel has designated the Ultraverse to be Earth-93060. You are clearly wrong. Therefore, since the Ultraverse is part of the Marvel Multiverse, and the UN destroyed "everything" in the multiverse, the 616 Infinity Gems were destroyed and recreated by the UN.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The Infinity Gauntlet has ONLY been seen in TWO other Universes beside 616, the Impossible Man had a Gauntlet and lost it to Galactus. (Impossible Man couldn't eve create a Planet with this IG)

And Surfer had one and destroyed it with the same Gauntlet. (Eternity never noticed Surfer with this IG)Ignored for redundancy. I don't care about other alternate IG's.
Originally posted by Mr Master
The 616 IG has never been destroyed. A fair response and one that ties back to your assuming that the 616 Infinity Gems on their own hold microscopic power compared to the 616 Infinity Gauntlet itself. This appears to be a facially weak and overly convenient argument. A response thrown back at this would be: since the 616 UN destroyed the 616 Infinity Gems which comprise the 616 IG, then because the 616 UN can destroy and recreate the complete utter source of the 616 IG's power, and the IG can only redirect the UN's power at it's wielder... then the UN > IG.

Also, the 616 UN's feat of destroying and recreating the ENTIRE Marvel Multiverse was never matched by the 616 Infinity Gauntlet. At best you show an incomplete 616 IG duplicating and creating one new universe. So please respond on those two fronts.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Problem is, if you want me to accept this supposition, then you're referencing by analogy that: 1) Eternity didn't destroy Thanos w/IG when he assaulted him; so if 2) The UN assaulted Thanos; then 3) The UN probably won't destroy Thanos w/ IG. Now how did you jump from 2 to 3? The only way is by assuming a premise: 2b) The UN is either comparable or weaker than Eternity. That completes the logical supposition you're making. And like I said, how could you possibly compare the UN's power to Eternity's power? We've seen the UN destroy and recreate Multi-Eternity. Your assumption makes no sense and without it, your supposition is baseless.

Your one two diagram is more baseless, I never said Eternity's power was comparable to the UN's, seriously stay thorough or there's no point in debating.

The only power capable of standing up to Warlock was the Living Tribunal.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You are still avoiding my point. I don't particularly care about other realities' Infinity Gems. I care about the 616 Infinity Gems. Let me make that clear, in no way do I care about what other alternate Infinity Gems might are or how they might be affected. Others may argue that the alternate IG's were just as powerful. I am not arguing that.No need to be confused. I was reiterating your argument in the "Parallax vs Abraxas" thread. It's your argument. Either way, both you and I agree, the 616 UN destroyed "everything" and recreated "everything." What you must clarify, is whether the 616 Infinity Gems were included in this "everything."

Again,

the Ultraverse is part of a different Multi-verse.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Again, don't care about alternate IG.
Ah. So this is the crux of your opinion. Extremely weak, but I shall address it later at a more appropriate point after dealing with the rest of your post.

"weak?"

Your funny,

prove that the Infinity Gems are just as powerful separated than when FORMED into a Gauntlet.

Go ahead...


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You cited in the Mr. Mxy vs Galactus thread that the 616 UN also kept reappearing in his ship after its uses. I agree.

No YOU said that, I already told you my position on that matter.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't care about alternate universes, only 616.

Good, neither do I.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Are you saying that the 616 UN has destroyed itself and not recreated itself the same way it destroyed "everything" and recreated "everything?" That is an extremely poor assumption. If that was the case, than surely Reed would have explained that after the 616 UN recreated everything, "Oddly enough. Although everything has been restored.. the UN itself has not." I think it is more than logical, indeed inherent and explicit in Reeds' words that the 616 UN is part of the "everything" that was recreated.
Then please explain to me why you think the 616 UN was permanently destroyed.
Are you taking a neutral position on this? Please pick a position.

hahaha!!!, you remind me of someone,

Anyhow, had you paid attention in my other posts I clearly said I never seen the UN lingering around after it has rubbed out a Universe, in the Reed case, it created a new Multi-verse exactly like the one that was right before Abraxas manifested.

I suppose there was a UN in that previous Reality.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
She took Spectre's power in 'Day of Vengeance' and immediately proceeded to wield it as the new divine engine of wrath. She turned all Spectre-like in a sexy yellow-black outfit and started bringing the whup-ass on Eclipso. There was no "The power is too much to control!" She just started using it. Therefore, I shall ask again, knowing this much: "Do you think Black Alice is more powerful than Spectre?"Actually, only in your mind is this the crux of the matter. I believe what you're purporting is an utter absurdity. Let us take some examples: 1) Apparently, Rogue is the most powerful mutant in your mind since she can absorb other people's powers and make them her own... even completely if she touches them long enough. 2) You also apparently think Parasite is the most powerful supervillain in DC since he can make Superman's powers his b1tch by absorbing his power. 3) And now apparently you think Black Alice, a normal teenager whose only power is the ability to usurp another's magic, is more powerful than Spectre.
I think the logical absurdities of your argument is self-evident. But if I have to, I will explain why they are absurd. Being able to circumvent another object's or being's power does not make you more powerful than that object or person. Therefore, Sentinels have always had the ability to generate a field that negates and nullifies mutants' powers, but that is merely a circumvention and as such, if you were to quantify or qualify a comparison between a single Sentinel and Magneto himself, you can clearly conclude that Magneto is more powerful than a single Sentinel. Quantitatively: Sentinel is powered by 10,000,000 watts of electricity while Magneto can power himself and wield 100,000,000 watts of electricity. Qualitatively: Sentinel can normally be beaten by Colossus while Magneto would normally beat Colossus. Another basis for comparison is the direct comparison: A Sentinel with all its power mustered against a Magneto all things considered equal would fail to kill him while Magneto with all his power mustered would easily destroy a Sentinel all things considered equal.Circumvention by itself, is not a quantitative comparison nor is it a qualitiative comparison. It also cannot serve as a clear basis between what/who fundamentally overpowers what/who in a direct comparison because it completely circumvents it.

dontgetit


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
From above, where I intuit that the 616 UN was recreated also with the multiverse. It also disappeared after its normal uses prior to that in 616 universe and as far as we've seen, it keeps reappearing in Galactus' ship.

Not true,

we can only confidently speculate on the UN being recreated during the Reed incident.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
For someone who does not want to use alternate IG's, you seem quite willing to use alternate UN's.
Marvel has designated the Ultraverse to be Earth-93060. You are clearly wrong. Therefore, since the Ultraverse is part of the Marvel Multiverse, and the UN destroyed "everything" in the multiverse, the 616 Infinity Gems were destroyed and recreated by the UN.

And you think because it has an Earth it's automatically part of this Multi-verse?

The prime Multi-verse is not the only place with an Earth.


The Doctor Who series takes place in the Gallifreyan Multi-verse, Dr Who is from Earth 8162, in a Universe OUTSIDE the Prime (616) Multi-verse

The New Universe is part of another Multi-verse

The Star Trek Universe is part of another Multi-verse

Star Wars Universe is part of another Multi-verse

The Ultraverse is part of another Multi-verse

The Beyond Realm, PRE and POST, was in it's own Space but Outside the Multi-verse


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
A fair response and one that ties back to your assuming that the 616 Infinity Gems on their own hold microscopic power compared to the 616 Infinity Gauntlet itself. This appears to be a facially weak and overly convenient argument. A response thrown back at this would be: since the 616 UN destroyed the 616 Infinity Gems which comprise the 616 IG, then because the 616 UN can destroy and recreate the complete utter source of the 616 IG's power, and the IG can only redirect the UN's power at it's wielder... then the UN > IG.

Actually the "facially weak" argument is saying the Gem separated are as great as the Gems combined.

That's laughable.

An INCOMPLETE IG PAWND the UN, get over it.


Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Also, the 616 UN's feat of destroying and recreating the ENTIRE Marvel Multiverse was never matched by the 616 Infinity Gauntlet. At best you show an incomplete 616 IG duplicating and creating one new universe. So please respond on those two fronts.

I have the IG having to be gauged by the Living Tribunal, (the second MOST powerful entity in Marvel) before he handed down his Judgement..

Here he DETERMINES whether he HAD the power or NOT
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/619/ltrulesig37jm.th.jpg


An Incomplete IG was controlling Three Universes while merging Two of those.
An Incomplete IG completely controlled the power/enrgies of the UN.
A Complete IG became the entire 616 Universe, in the hands of Thanos was never defeated, Thanos defeated himself.
A Complete IG in the hands of Warlock forced the Living Tribunal in on the Action, knowing Warlock had the power to devastate everything, without the Will to control it like Thanos.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Your one two diagram is more baseless, I never said Eternity's power was comparable to the UN's, seriously stay thorough or there's no point in debating.

The only power capable of standing up to Warlock was the Living Tribunal.No. You stop trying to allude the point. I pointed out where your supposition completely fails without the necessary premise you assumed. Your rhetoric does not work. If you don't want to assume that the UN's power is comparable to Eternity, than just say so and move on to admit that without it, your supposition is baseless. Try to remedy it or abandon it. Your unwillingness to even do that much and begin accusing me of being unreasonable and then pointing out something completely off-topic is indicative of the rest of your post, which I will dissect.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Again,

the Ultraverse is part of a different Multi-verse.Not according to the scan you posted, which has Surfer characterizing it as a mere universe and not a separate multiverse. The "Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Alternate Universes 2005" does not situate the Ultraverse in a separate Multiverse. More details below.
Originally posted by Mr Master
"weak?"

Your funny,

prove that the Infinity Gems are just as powerful separated than when FORMED into a Gauntlet.

Go ahead...Had you bothered to focus on what I boiled my argument to at the very bottom, you'll notice that I never set out to prove that the 616 Infinity Gems were just as powerful when separated. I argued that the 616 UN's feat of destroying the 616 Infinity Gems, which are the complete and utter source of the 616 IG's power trumps the fact that the 616 IG manipulated the 616 UN's energies back onto its wielder. Go ahead and avoid tackling the above comparison by trying to put words into my mouth. But twisting my argument will lead you nowhere.
Originally posted by Mr Master
No YOU said that, I already told you my position on that matter.Then let me ask you this. How many times has the 616 UN been used and/or stolen. Where does it keep ending back up after each use and after each theft?
Originally posted by Mr Master
hahaha!!!, you remind me of someone,

Anyhow, had you paid attention in my other posts I clearly said I never seen the UN lingering around after it has rubbed out a Universe, in the Reed case, it created a new Multi-verse exactly like the one that was right before Abraxas manifested.

I suppose there was a UN in that previous Reality.And what about the subsequent reality created in the aftermath of Reeds' activation during the 'Abraxas' storyline? Is there a UN there or not? If you don't believe so, why is it more logical to you to assume it isn't there when Reed clearly and explicitly states "everything" was realligned/recreated? Your assumption flies in the face of the Reeds' own statement.
Originally posted by Mr Master
dontgetitSincerely speaking, this is becoming a typical maneuver on your part. Instead of defending my criticism, you feign ignorance. What I shall continue to point out is that your conclusion that the "IG > UN" relies on the very same falacious logic that allows you to state that "Black Alice > Spectre." It is utterly laughable and I can see you're already trying to back away from it since you never repeated your admission that Black Alice > Spectre. Don't worry, it's still out there. And it's on you to explain how your logic can still stand when I've clearly shown why your logic is utterly wrong. Want it spelled out? I'll repeat it: "Manipulating the UN's energies is no basis for concluding the IG's dominance. Otherewise you erroneously conclude that a character like Black Alice is more powerful than Spectre, simply because she circumvents his power and wields it."
Originally posted by Mr Master
Not true,

we can only confidently speculate on the UN being recreated during the Reed incident.I don't need "confident speculation." I have Reeds' own words. Everything was realligned, thus everything was returned and restored. You have to "unconfidently speculate" that somehow the 616 UN was curiously not a part of this "recreation" and that it has disappeared. Since there is absolutely no evidence suggesting that the UN was not recreated, there is no speculation, only a logical assertion and obvious conclusion.
Originally posted by Mr Master
And you think because it has an Earth it's automatically part of this Multi-verse?

The prime Multi-verse is not the only place with an Earth.

The Doctor Who series takes place in the Gallifreyan Multi-verse, Dr Who is from Earth 8162, in a Universe OUTSIDE the Prime (616) Multi-verse

The New Universe is part of another Multi-verse

The Star Trek Universe is part of another Multi-verse

Star Wars Universe is part of another Multi-verse

The Ultraverse is part of another Multi-verse

The Beyond Realm, PRE and POST, was in it's own Space but Outside the Multi-verseNo, I don't believe that an Earth being designated with a number is prima facie evidence that puts it in the Marvel Multiverse. But it is highly indicative of it. Even moreso, since the Star Trek and Star Wars universes have no Earth-# designation at all.

In the "Handbook to the Marvel Universe: Alternate Universes 2005," they do not characterize the Ultraverse as being outside the Marvel Multiverse and characterize it as an "alternate universe." It is Earth-93060. They also list the New Universe as being Earth-555 since its relaunch. They also list it as an "alternate universe," and not a separate "multiverse."

NOW, the DC Multiverse however WAS explicitly cited to be a separate "multiverse." If they went to the trouble of calling DC a "multiverse," I think they would have done the same and called the Ultraverse and the New Universe "multiverses" as well, if they intended it to be so. In addition to this obviously clear characterization, it is exceptionally logical to say that the Ultraverse and the New Universe were integrated into the entire Marvel Multiverse in 'Black September' and 'Starblast' respectively since characters have travelled between them, come back and have had lasting changes in 616 characters' continuity. Their designation as "alternate universes" rather than "multiverses" also suggests that they are part of the Marvel Multiverse.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Actually the "facially weak" argument is saying the Gem separated are as great as the Gems combined.

That's laughable.

An INCOMPLETE IG PAWND the UN, get over it.Once again ignored for redundancy. Nowhere did I postulate that the 616 Infinity Gems were more powerful than the 616 IG. Instead of injecting what you believe I'm arguing, try focusing on the substance. If you don't want to go through my long-winded posts, then deal with the summarization at the very end where I wrap up my challenges. I'll post a simlar summarization down below.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I have the IG having to be gauged by the Living Tribunal, (the second MOST powerful entity in Marvel) before he handed down his Judgement..

Here he DETERMINES whether he HAD the power or NOT
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/619/ltrulesig37jm.th.jpg


An Incomplete IG was controlling Three Universes while merging Two of those.
An Incomplete IG completely controlled the power/enrgies of the UN.
A Complete IG became the entire 616 Universe, in the hands of Thanos was never defeated, Thanos defeated himself.
A Complete IG in the hands of Warlock forced the Living Tribunal in on the Action, knowing Warlock had the power to devastate everything, without the Will to control it like Thanos. I own Infinity Watch. And I have read every instance that you list. Unfortunately, 1) The Incomplete IG is seen as merely redirecting the UN's energies and not controlling them; 2) the complete 616 IG in Adam Warlock's hand during Infinity Watch #1 was seen to endanger that universe and not the entire Multiverse; and 3) You still haven't shown me a single feat that the 616 IG ever matched the 616 UN's destroying and recreating of the Multiverse. What you want, is to convince me to cobble together your listed feats and assume that the 616 IG could affect change across the entire Multiverse all at once. Complete manipulation over the 616 universe, a duplicate 616 universe, and a dimension that exists outside both has been the widest scope of its power, nowhere near the quantitative or qualitative measure of the UN's scope in 'Abraxas.'

Again, I'll summarize and focus my challenges: 1) Your "IG > UN" that hinges on a redirection of energies is utterly falacious because of your "Black Alice > Spectre" rationale; 2) The 616 UN has destroyed and recreated the very foundation and source of the 616 IG's power which is a greater comparable feat than the 616 IG redirecting energies back at a 616 UN wielder. 3) The 616 IG still has not shown any feat on par with the 616 UN's destruction and recreation of the entire Marvel Multiverse.

P.S. Since we both are referring clearly to 616 UN and 616 IG and 616 Infinity Gems, I really want to dispense with the 616 from here on out.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No. You stop trying to allude the point. I pointed out where your supposition completely fails without the necessary premise you assumed. Your rhetoric does not work. If you don't want to assume that the UN's power is comparable to Eternity, than just say so and move on to admit that without it, your supposition is baseless. Try to remedy it or abandon it. Your unwillingness to even do that much and begin accusing me of being unreasonable and then pointing out something completely off-topic is indicative of the rest of your post, which I will dissect.
Not according to the scan you posted, which has Surfer characterizing it as a mere universe and not a separate multiverse. The "Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Alternate Universes 2005" does not situate the Ultraverse in a separate Multiverse. More details below.
Had you bothered to focus on what I boiled my argument to at the very bottom, you'll notice that I never set out to prove that the 616 Infinity Gems were just as powerful when separated. I argued that the 616 UN's feat of destroying the 616 Infinity Gems, which are the complete and utter source of the 616 IG's power trumps the fact that the 616 IG manipulated the 616 UN's energies back onto its wielder. Go ahead and avoid tackling the above comparison by trying to put words into my mouth. But twisting my argument will lead you nowhere.
Then let me ask you this. How many times has the 616 UN been used and/or stolen. Where does it keep ending back up after each use and after each theft?
And what about the subsequent reality created in the aftermath of Reeds' activation during the 'Abraxas' storyline? Is there a UN there or not? If you don't believe so, why is it more logical to you to assume it isn't there when Reed clearly and explicitly states "everything" was realligned/recreated? Your assumption flies in the face of the Reeds' own statement.
Sincerely speaking, this is becoming a typical maneuver on your part. Instead of defending my criticism, you feign ignorance. What I shall continue to point out is that your conclusion that the "IG > UN" relies on the very same falacious logic that allows you to state that "Black Alice > Spectre." It is utterly laughable and I can see you're already trying to back away from it since you never repeated your admission that Black Alice > Spectre. Don't worry, it's still out there. And it's on you to explain how your logic can still stand when I've clearly shown why your logic is utterly wrong. Want it spelled out? I'll repeat it: "Manipulating the UN's energies is no basis for concluding the IG's dominance. Otherewise you erroneously conclude that a character like Black Alice is more powerful than Spectre, simply because she circumvents his power and wields it."
I don't need "confident speculation." I have Reeds' own words. Everything was realligned, thus everything was returned and restored. You have to "unconfidently speculate" that somehow the 616 UN was curiously not a part of this "recreation" and that it has disappeared. Since there is absolutely no evidence suggesting that the UN was not recreated, there is no speculation, only a logical assertion and obvious conclusion.
No, I don't believe that an Earth being designated with a number is prima facie evidence that puts it in the Marvel Multiverse. But it is highly indicative of it. Even moreso, since the Star Trek and Star Wars universes have no Earth-# designation at all.

In the "Handbook to the Marvel Universe: Alternate Universes 2005," they do not characterize the Ultraverse as being outside the Marvel Multiverse and characterize it as an "alternate universe." It is Earth-93060. They also list the New Universe as being Earth-555 since its relaunch. They also list it as an "alternate universe," and not a separate "multiverse."

NOW, the DC Multiverse however WAS explicitly cited to be a separate "multiverse." If they went to the trouble of calling DC a "multiverse," I think they would have done the same and called the Ultraverse and the New Universe "multiverses" as well, if they intended it to be so. In addition to this obviously clear characterization, it is exceptionally logical to say that the Ultraverse and the New Universe were integrated into the entire Marvel Multiverse in 'Black September' and 'Starblast' respectively since characters have travelled between them, come back and have had lasting changes in 616 characters' continuity. Their designation as "alternate universes" rather than "multiverses" also suggests that they are part of the Marvel Multiverse.
Once again ignored for redundancy. Nowhere did I postulate that the 616 Infinity Gems were more powerful than the 616 IG. Instead of injecting what you believe I'm arguing, try focusing on the substance. If you don't want to go through my long-winded posts, then deal with the summarization at the very end where I wrap up my challenges. I'll post a simlar summarization down below.
I own Infinity Watch. And I have read every instance that you list. Unfortunately, 1) The Incomplete IG is seen as merely redirecting the UN's energies and not controlling them; 2) the complete 616 IG in Adam Warlock's hand during Infinity Watch #1 was seen to endanger that universe and not the entire Multiverse; and 3) You still haven't shown me a single feat that the 616 IG ever matched the 616 UN's destroying and recreating of the Multiverse. What you want, is to convince me to cobble together your listed feats and assume that the 616 IG could affect change across the entire Multiverse all at once. Complete manipulation over the 616 universe, a duplicate 616 universe, and a dimension that exists outside both has been the widest scope of its power, nowhere near the quantitative or qualitative measure of the UN's scope in 'Abraxas.'

Again, I'll summarize and focus my challenges: 1) Your "IG > UN" that hinges on a redirection of energies is utterly falacious because of your "Black Alice > Spectre" rationale; 2) The 616 UN has destroyed and recreated the very foundation and source of the 616 IG's power which is a greater comparable feat than the 616 IG redirecting energies back at a 616 UN wielder. 3) The 616 IG still has not shown any feat on par with the 616 UN's destruction and recreation of the entire Marvel Multiverse.

P.S. Since we both are referring clearly to 616 UN and 616 IG and 616 Infinity Gems, I really want to dispense with the 616 from here on out.


WOW, like how do you say what I been trying to say forever so well!!!

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
WOW, like how do you say what I been trying to say forever so well!!!

He said all that cause read comics. You didn't and that's why it's taking you forever to say what he's saying. Now read your comics.

Originally posted by WhiteWitchKing
He said all that cause he comics. You didn't and that's why it's taking you forever to say what he's saying. Now read your comics.

I asked the same type questions. I asked how come the IG didn't just redirect the energies. I stated the same exact thing. As a matter of fact, i'll go find it. Now you stop being an mean to me.

this thread was so promising . . .

Originally posted by leonidas
this thread was so promising . . .

It was

I'm bumping this thread, because the cosmic debators seem to be at odds with each other about "IG vs UN," once again. This comparison has clogged up various threads and has even caused more threads to be birthed. So let's confine the argument here, and try to prevent the derailing of other threads. Here's a summary of my position why I have always believed "UN > IG":

1) The "IG > UN" idea almost completely hinges on the interpretation that the IG redirected the energies of the UN. On its face, this looks good. But this by itself, cannot be a reason why one should conclude dominance. Simply put, the same rationale would have you conclude that "Black Alice > Spectre." And if you believe that, well then... I just feel sorry for you.

2) Even if you are willing to conclude that "Black Alice > Spectre," the UN has destroyed and recreated the very foundation and source of the IG's power (the separated Infinity Gems themselves), which is a greater comparable feat than the IG redirecting energies back at a UN wielder anyway. Even if you were to argue against the interpretation of what happened in the Abaraxas storyline as a foundation that the Infinity gems were destroyed and recreated, Magus himself believed the UN would destroy him and the Infinity Gems when he first detected Quasar aiming it at him. He was clearly panicking.

3) The IG still has not shown any feat on par with the UN's destruction and recreation of the entire Marvel Multiverse. This is really the simplest reduction of the argument and is particularly unassailable. In the presence of various disputes and arguments, this is the only thing everybody can agree on. IG on-panel, has done nothing comparable witht he scope of the UN's greatest on-panel feat. And since many debates and comparisons have been resolved through comparing "best on-panel feat" vs "best on-panel feat," this is a very strong basis to conclude that the "UN > IG."

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm bumping this thread, because the cosmic debators seem to be at odds with each other about "IG vs UN," once again. This comparison has clogged up various threads and has even caused more threads to be birthed. So let's confine the argument here, and try to prevent the derailing of other threads. Here's a summary of my position why I have always believed "UN > IG":

1) The "IG > UN" idea almost completely hinges on the interpretation that the IG redirected the energies of the UN. On its face, this looks good. But this by itself, cannot be a reason why one should conclude dominance. Simply put, the same rationale would have you conclude that "Black Alice > Spectre." And if you believe that, well then... I just feel sorry for you.

2) Even if you are willing to conclude that "Black Alice > Spectre," the UN has destroyed and recreated the very foundation and source of the IG's power (the separated Infinity Gems themselves), which is a greater comparable feat than the IG redirecting energies back at a UN wielder anyway. Even if you were to argue against the interpretation of what happened in the Abaraxas storyline as a foundation that the Infinity gems were destroyed and recreated, Magus himself believed the UN would destroy him and the Infinity Gems when he first detected Quasar aiming it at him. He was clearly panicking.

3) The IG still has not shown any feat on par with the UN's destruction and recreation of the entire Marvel Multiverse. This is really the simplest reduction of the argument and is particularly unassailable. In the presence of various disputes and arguments, this is the only thing everybody can agree on. IG on-panel, has done nothing comparable witht he scope of the UN's greatest on-panel feat. And since many debates and comparisons have been resolved through comparing "best on-panel feat" vs "best on-panel feat," this is a very strong basis to conclude that the "UN > IG."

Bravo.

Not much interest apparently in tackling my arguments. A single PM has been sent to what I believe is an interested party. I give him a week or so. I may send out others, because I did notice a lot of claims in other threads. They appear to have auspices of debating fire in them. Til then, the silence speaks.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Not much interest apparently in tackling my arguments. A single PM has been sent to what I believe is an interested party. I give him a week or so. I may send out others, because I did notice a lot of claims in other threads. They appear to have auspices of debating fire in them. Til then, the silence speaks. Since you seem to enjoy sending out somewhat demeaning messages to users,

I'll throw you a bone, but this will be my last post in this thread..... As I do not wish to continue this debate, or stroke your ego in any way, shape, or form.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
2) the UN has destroyed and recreated the very foundation and source of the IG's power (the separated Infinity Gems themselves), which is a greater comparable feat than the IG redirecting energies back at a UN wielder anyway. Even if you were to argue against the interpretation of what happened in the Abaraxas storyline as a foundation that the Infinity gems were destroyed and recreatedThe IG controlled the UN's energies entirely, and turned them back on Quasar.

It had TOTAL control over those energies period. A user of the UN could never harm an experienced user of the IG, based on panel evidence.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Magus himself believed the UN would destroy him and the Infinity Gems when he first detected Quasar aiming it at him. He was clearly panicking. Yeah, Magus was "clearly panicking" before the IG was in working order, for obvious reasons.

After the IG was working again, Magus didn't fear the UN whatsoever, because..... Well, he knew that he had the superior weapon.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
3) The IG still has not shown any feat on par with the UN's destruction and recreation of the entire Marvel Multiverse. Besides the IG controlling the energy of the UN itself, you're right.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
IG on-panel, has done nothing comparable witht he scope of the UN's greatest on-panel feat. And since many debates and comparisons have been resolved through comparing "best on-panel feat" vs "best on-panel feat," this is a very strong basis to conclude that the "UN > IG." IMO the "best panel feat" is the Incomplete IG's feat, of completely controlling the UN's energies.


Since an Incomplete IG was shown to have TOTAL control over the energy of the UN, there is no real way to think that a wielder of the UN could harm a user of the IG, based on panel evidence..



Why?

Because an Incomplete IG has total control over the UN's energies, based on panel evidence.






Again, this will be my last post in this thread, as I do not want to debate the same exact points for 20+ pages, which will inevitably go nowhere.

Originally posted by Galan007
Since you seem to enjoy sending out somewhat demeaning messages to users,

I'll throw you a bone, but this will be my last post in this thread..... As I do not wish to continue this debate, or stroke your ego in any way, shape, or form.

The IG controlled the UN's energies entirely, and turned them back on Quasar.

It had TOTAL control over those energies period. A user of the UN could never harm an experienced user of the IG, based on panel evidence.So then it's nice to see that you believe that "Black Alice > Spectre," since she controlled his powers enitrely during 'Day of Vengeance.' I didn't think people would be so stupid to accept this kind of logic. But apparently, you do.
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, Magus was "clearly panicking" before the IG was in working order, for obvious reasons.

After the IG was working again, Magus didn't fear the UN whatsoever, because..... Well, he knew that he had the superior weapon.Read the scan again. He refers to the UN as the ultimate weapon, not his IG. He characterized it as such when he had the IG in working order. Any response? I'm pretty sure you don't.
Originally posted by Galan007
Besides the IG controlling the energy of the UN itself, you're right.

IMO the "best panel feat" is the Incomplete IG's feat, of completely controlling the UN's energies.This is exactly why I've restarted this thread. Because in almost every cosmic debate, the IG comes up. And people continue to believe it was multiversal. These same people believe it was multiversal because it turned the UN on it's own wielder. Every single theory that streches from this assertion is completely based on a "Black Alice > Spectre" rationale. Absurd. Utterly.
Originally posted by Galan007
Since an Incomplete IG was shown to have TOTAL control over the energy of the UN, there is no real way to think that a wielder of the UN could harm a user of the IG, based on panel evidence..



Why?

Because an Incomplete IG has total control over the UN's energies, based on panel evidence.






Again, this will be my last post in this thread, as I do not want to debate the same exact points for 20+ pages, which will inevitably go nowhere. Since the UN erased and recreated the entire marvel Multiverse, and the IG has done nothing even near that scope, there is no real way to think the IG is on the same level as the UN based on panel evidence.

If you believe the IG reversing the UN on Quasar works, then you believe like a fool that "Black Alice > Spectre." And for that, I either call you a complete idiot, or you're a hypocritical muppet, since you use one standard to conclude one instance in your favor and not for any others that clearly show why the standard is stupid. Hypocrisy. Pure and utter hypocrisy. You phail, and it's not just because you decide to ninja-post and run, it's because you can't own up to the hypocrisy in this thread yet continue to foster it in every other thread you hope I haven't read.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So then it's nice to see that you believe that "Black Alice > Spectre," since she controlled his powers enitrely during 'Day of Vengeance.' I didn't think people would be so stupid to accept this kind of logic. But apparently, you do.
Read the scan again. He refers to the UN as the ultimate weapon, not his IG. He characterized it as such when he had the IG in working order. Any response? I'm pretty sure you don't.
This is exactly why I've restarted this thread. Because in almost every cosmic debate, the IG comes up. And people continue to believe it was multiversal. These same people believe it was multiversal because it turned the UN on it's own wielder. Every single theory that streches from this assertion is completely based on a "Black Alice > Spectre" rationale. Absurd. Utterly.
Since the UN erased and recreated the entire marvel Multiverse, and the IG has done nothing even near that scope, there is no real way to think the IG is on the same level as the UN based on panel evidence.

If you believe the IG reversing the UN on Quasar works, then you believe like a fool that "Black Alice > Spectre." And for that, I either call you a complete idiot, or you're a hypocritical muppet, since you use one standard to conclude one instance in your favor and not for any others that clearly show why the standard is stupid. Hypocrisy. Pure and utter hypocrisy. You phail, and it's not just because you decide to ninja-post and run, it's because you can't own up to the hypocrisy in this thread yet continue to foster it in every other thread you hope I haven't read.

Your argument is very logical and the same one that I and other's have brought up.

Originally posted by Galan007
Since you seem to enjoy sending out somewhat demeaning messages to users,

I'll throw you a bone, but this will be my last post in this thread..... As I do not wish to continue this debate, or stroke your ego in any way, shape, or form.

The IG controlled the UN's energies entirely, and turned them back on Quasar.

It had TOTAL control over those energies period. A user of the UN could never harm an experienced user of the IG, based on panel evidence.

Yeah, Magus was "clearly panicking" before the IG was in working order, for obvious reasons.

After the IG was working again, Magus didn't fear the UN whatsoever, because..... Well, he knew that he had the superior weapon.

Besides the IG controlling the energy of the UN itself, you're right.

IMO the "best panel feat" is the Incomplete IG's feat, of completely controlling the UN's energies.


Since an Incomplete IG was shown to have TOTAL control over the energy of the UN, there is no real way to think that a wielder of the UN could harm a user of the IG, based on panel evidence..



Why?

Because an Incomplete IG has total control over the UN's energies, based on panel evidence.






Again, this will be my last post in this thread, as I do not want to debate the same exact points for 20+ pages, which will inevitably go nowhere.

i agree.

good job galan. thumbup

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/4436/newavengersilluminati00al2.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/6273/newavengersilluminati00ip7.jpg
http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/1739/newavengersilluminati00ku3.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3781/newavengersilluminati00cz0.jpg
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2927/newavengersilluminati00jv0.jpg
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4489/newavengersilluminati00wz7.jpg
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/4083/newavengersilluminati00mu5.jpg
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/7438/newavengersilluminati00jt8.jpg
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/85/newavengersilluminati00ln3.jpg
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/3320/newavengersilluminati00pm8.jpg
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3787/newavengersilluminati00xa6.jpg

If you want the other half of the issue let me know.

Also is the upcoming issue they will reveal beyonders origin. cant wait.

Originally posted by Mordum
If you want the other half of the issue let me know.

Also is the upcoming issue they will reveal beyonders origin. cant wait.
But the infinity Gauntlet have been affecting multiple universes.

Maybe 2 at most but i dont think that would be considered multi.

Originally posted by Mordum
Maybe 2 at most but i dont think that would be considered multi.

It was Three actually with an Incomplete IG.

Multi means more than One.


Anyways,


the biggest showing for the Complete IG,

is that only the LT stood a chance against it.

LT the secong most powerful entity in Marvel.

LT who holds Megaverses in one Hand.

Originally posted by Mordum
Maybe 2 at most but i dont think that would be considered multi.
Thanos used it to affect one universe, mainly because he din't want to affect anything else, there was no need to.
Magus affected two, but again, he didn't need to affect any more.

O RLY!? so you know what the characters were thinking?

Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Thanos used it to affect one universe, mainly because he din't want to affect anything else, there was no need to.
Magus affected two, but again, he didn't need to affect any more.

Originally posted by Galan007
The IG controlled the UN's energies entirely, and turned them back on Quasar.

It had TOTAL control over those energies period. A user of the UN could never harm an experienced user of the IG, based on panel evidence.

Simple as that.

Originally posted by Mordum
O RLY!? so you know what the characters were thinking?

I do.


Thanos only wanted one Universe.


Eternity and company go to LT for help against Thanos:

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/6453/ltnoig1lw8.th.jpg


LT will not interfere because Thanos only wants One Universe

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/3766/ltnoig2zv1.th.jpg






Magus had an incomplete IG = NOT Omnipotent.

http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/3220/nothood1ta2.th.jpg
"Warlock and I gave the Magus a Taste of GodHood ... just a Taste"


http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/4739/nothood2vb3.th.jpg
"the Magus merely had the illusion of Omnipotence, no more"



That's an Incomplete IG, it's just an illusion of omnipotence, a taste of Godhood,

and yet Magus Owned the UN.

Magus Owned Two Universes in an instant.


Now put that in perspective, and think about a Complete IG.






Warlock didn't want any Universe at all.

Warlock wasn't collapsing the Universe or the Multiverse.

Warlock was not at the moment a threat to the Balance.



The second most powerful Entity in Marvel,

only appears because of threats to Multiversal imbalance:

http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/7840/ltny5.th.jpg



The Living Tribunal still interfered, (never been done before)

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8108/ltrulesig44zu.th.jpg

http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/7757/ltorderswl0iy.th.jpg





On one last note



If the IG is just a Universal power,

why would TOAA himself, place a restriction on their use?

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9461/etvh2.th.jpg

"Let it be known the Power that the Living Tribunal Represents (TOAA)

will never again allow the Gems to work in Unison"

Thats not true becasue in this current issue of the illuminati Reed was about to put them together but the watcher stepped in.

Originally posted by Mordum
Thats not true becasue in this current issue of the illuminati Reed was about to put them together but the watcher stepped in.

That's only issue #2,

there's alot of explaining to do.

Let's wait and not speculate on the matter.

Issue 3 will not continue with the ganutlet it will reveal beyonders origin.

Originally posted by Mordum
Issue 3 will not continue with the ganutlet it will reveal beyonders origin.

Beyonder's origin?

Another one?


Beyonder is one of the most retconned characters in history.

Marvel be buggin'

http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?book_id=6586


The TRUE origin it says.

Originally posted by Mordum
http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?book_id=6586


The TRUE origin it says.

Interesting.

I'll be getting that.

Thanx.

Originally posted by Mr Master
It was Three actually with an Incomplete IG.

Multi means more than One.


Anyways,


the biggest showing for the Complete IG,

is that only the LT stood a chance against it.

LT the secong most powerful entity in Marvel.

LT who holds Megaverses in one Hand.

Please. That is like saying no one elso could stand up to it. Could it beat abraxas? Im betting Multi Death or Multi Eternity wouldn't be bothered by it in the slightest.

Infinity Gauntlet vs Ultimate Nullifier

- Lets not mess the other thread discuss here

Mr. Master wins.

Hulk smashes both Mr Master and OnedumGo

Originally posted by Enyalus
GalacticStorm wins.

Fixed

Let the pages-spanning essays that no one cares about, begin!

Everybody loses you will see

IG wins.

IG wins.

IG

How is this a debate? didn't an incomplete gauntlet already turn back/defeat the energies of the UN?

even if through some bizarre logic the UN is more powerful than "infinite power", complete control of space and time means the UN user will never actually get to fire the thing if a savvy gauntlet holder doesn't want him to.

IG 10/10

Originally posted by Galan007
Let the pages-spanning essays that no one cares about, begin!

Originally posted by Galan007
Let the pages-spanning essays that no one cares about, begin!

Thanks to this post it will.

Good job.

IG wins.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Thanks to this post it will.

Good job. Yes, it would be all my fault if essays start appearing in this thread. I mean, it's not like that's ever happened elsewhere. lulz.

Now they're going to just to piss you off. Should've kept your big mouth shut.

I don't understand. A incomplete IG stopped it. There is nothing to talk about.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Now they're going to just to piss you off. Should've kept your big mouth shut. a.) The essays don't piss me off at all. I actually find them quite funny - however, there's a fine line between what I consider funny, and what others might consider sad.

b.) I didn't open my mouth, I merely typed a response. Thus, your bash against a piece of my anatomy *giggity* was quite uncalled for, and completely untrue.

Typing something is methaphorically opening your mouth. Let's not play semantics.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Typing something is methaphorically opening your mouth. Nah.

Sure it is. You're just typing it instead of saying it. If we were having the discussion in person you'd be using your mouth, no? Unless you're Stephen Hawking that is.

Originally posted by Galan007
a.) The essays don't piss me off at all. I actually find them quite funny - however, there's a fine line between what I consider funny, and what others might consider sad.

b.) I didn't open my mouth, I merely typed a response. Thus, your bash against a piece of my anatomy *giggity* was quite uncalled for, and completely untrue.

You actually read them?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
Sure it is. You're just typing it instead of saying it. If we were having the discussion in person you'd be using your mouth, no? Unless you're Stephen Hawking that is. Oh he uses his mouth, but not to talk, if you know what I mean.

bow chika wow wow

Originally posted by Mindset
Oh he uses his mouth, but not to talk, if you know what I mean.

bow chika wow wow For free?

Of course for free, he's not a whore!

Wow, that's just rude.

Originally posted by Mindset
You actually read them? Oh God no. I'm not that pathetic. srsly

Originally posted by Mindset
Of course for free, he's not a whore!

Wow, that's just rude. 2237

Originally posted by Mindset
Oh he uses his mouth, but not to talk, if you know what I mean.

bow chika wow wow
lol i spit out my food when i read this. lmao

Originally posted by Galan007
Oh God no. I'm not that pathetic. srsly

2237
Mr. M's are usually pretty quick reads because a lot of the stuff he reposts or has posted before in various threads.

I don't think Mr. M knows how to write paragraphs.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Mr. M's are usually pretty quick reads because a lot of the stuff he reposts or has posted before in various threads. Well GS does that to.

After few years of debating it's hard to come with new scans lol

Pulled from the other thread:
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That is a fallacy and pure speculation on your part that Reed used the UN to it's highest potentional. Show me a scan of of this being said.I am recognizing that Reed has used the UN to its highest potential that we have seen so far. I am not speculating as to whether resetting the Marvel Multiverse is the highest potential of the UN possible. I am arguing against such speculation because it is unnecessary to make a qualitatively comparative analysis. This is the same reason that I won't engage in speculation about whether conquering the 616 universe is the highest potential of the IG possible.

As for the rest of your argument, you continually ignore your use of a double-standard. Because it's fact that Nebula w/ IG completely failed to detect Adam Warlock. It's also fact that Thanos w/ IG completely failed to hurt Maelstrom bonded with Anomaly.

So do you hold the power/scope of the IG itself accountable for Nebula's personal failure against Adam Warlock? In other words, you consider that the IG's lack of power is to blame for that failure, because it was weaker than Adam Warlock? Well? Do characterize that incident as: Adam Warlock pwns IG?

So do you hold the power/scope of the IG itself accountable for Thanos' personal failure against Maelstrom w/ Anomaly? In other words, you consider that the IG's lack of power is to blame for that failure, because the IG was weaker than Maelstrom? Well? Do characterize that incident as: Maelstrom pwns IG?

Personally, I think such conclusions are ludicrous. Just because Nebula failed to detect Adam Warlock and Thanos failed to hurt Maelstrom does not necessitate a leap of logic to conclude that Adam Warlock or Maelstrom are more powerful than the IG. The reason is simple, because when you discard such inane logic, we know for a fact from qualitative comparison: IG wielders have accomplished far more than either Adam Warlock or Maelstrom have accomplished on-panel.

And:

UN resets Multi-Eternity on-panel.
IG conquers 616 Eternity on-panel.

Multi-Eternity as he appeared in Abraxas > 616 Eternity as he appeared in Infinity Gauntlet.

Therefore UN > IG.

*Edit*

Ahh forget it, not worth it. yawn

ilu

The gems have been a threat to the Omniverse, read the Ultraverse series.

Originally posted by LDHZenkai
lol i spit out my food when i read this. lmao

love the sig buddy

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Pulled from the other thread:
I am recognizing that Reed has used the UN to its highest potential that we have seen so far. I am not speculating as to whether resetting the Marvel Multiverse is the highest potential of the UN possible. I am arguing against such speculation because it is unnecessary to make a qualitatively comparative analysis. This is the same reason that I won't engage in speculation about whether conquering the 616 universe is the highest potential of the IG possible.

As for the rest of your argument, you continually ignore your use of a double-standard. Because it's fact that Nebula w/ IG completely failed to detect Adam Warlock. It's also fact that Thanos w/ IG completely failed to hurt Maelstrom bonded with Anomaly.

So do you hold the power/scope of the IG itself accountable for Nebula's personal failure against Adam Warlock? In other words, you consider that the IG's lack of power is to blame for that failure, because it was weaker than Adam Warlock? Well? Do characterize that incident as: Adam Warlock pwns IG?

So do you hold the power/scope of the IG itself accountable for Thanos' personal failure against Maelstrom w/ Anomaly? In other words, you consider that the IG's lack of power is to blame for that failure, because the IG was weaker than Maelstrom? Well? Do characterize that incident as: Maelstrom pwns IG?

Personally, I think such conclusions are ludicrous. Just because Nebula failed to detect Adam Warlock and Thanos failed to hurt Maelstrom does not necessitate a leap of logic to conclude that Adam Warlock or Maelstrom are more powerful than the IG. The reason is simple, because when you discard such inane logic, we know for a fact from qualitative comparison: IG wielders have accomplished far more than either Adam Warlock or Maelstrom have accomplished on-panel.

And:

UN resets Multi-Eternity on-panel.
IG conquers 616 Eternity on-panel.

Multi-Eternity as he appeared in Abraxas > 616 Eternity as he appeared in Infinity Gauntlet.

Therefore UN > IG.

Yet again you failed to address my point...

Wasn't it shown on panel and we both agree.. Quasar was a newb using the UN and Magus had also just gotten the INCOMPLETE IG?

So, therefore what was shown on panel is with two users who aren't versed in using their weapon the IG was shown superior? Therefore, a complete IG with a compotent user to it's fullest potential as KMC rules specifiy, should certainly be more then enough to deal with the UN. It has many possible wasy to win as you already said and has as already has on panel.

Incomplete IG beat the UN on panel therefore,
a complete IG certainly would do the same.

^ Except you ignore that an adept user of the UN reset the entire Marvel Multiverse, whereas an adept user of the IG conquered the 616 universe.

Bottom-line is, you wish to equivocate the simple idea of comparing feats while ignoring everything else in favor of BA > Spectre logic. That = phail.

IG

Ig wins.

Merged

If the Infinity Gems can twist and bend the energies emitting from the Ultimate Nullifier, why wouldn't they have the power to alter similar forces when exerted?

^ You're begging the question. Want to rephrase?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ You're begging the question. Want to rephrase?
Begging the question is the same as circular reasoning, which i didn't apply in this case.

^ Then I don't understand the question. Can you rephrase your question?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Except you ignore that an adept user of the UN reset the entire Marvel Multiverse, whereas an adept user of the IG conquered the 616 universe.

Bottom-line is, you wish to equivocate the simple idea of comparing feats while ignoring everything else in favor of BA > Spectre logic. That = phail. that's actually a really good point. reed and presumably galactus are the best suited for wielding the UN, quasar was scared shitless even holding the thing, and had to quantum jump to a intergalactic repository of knowledge (university of rus, owned by the possessor) to even understand what he was even holding in his hands.

in the right hands the UN is potentially the most powerful weapon in the universe, in the wrong hands the user simply erases themselves from existence.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Then I don't understand the question. Can you rephrase your question?
If the gems have the potency to control whatever forces are emitted from the nullifier. Why wouldn't they have the power to bend similar forces from cosmic beings?

Because if the gems can, then there isn't a power issue here at all.

What good is a gun to you if all the bullets go right through you rather than the one you're going to gun down?

Originally posted by Astner
If the gems have the potency to control whatever forces are emitted from the nullifier. Why wouldn't they have the power to bend similar forces from cosmic beings?

Because if the gems can, then there isn't a power issue here at all.

What good is a gun to you if all the bullets go right through you rather than the one you're going to gun down? If the gems can, then there isn't a power issue. You did assume your conclusion. You're attempting to approach this issue with a facile maneuever, by diverting the true inquiry of the matter and reframing the argument in an extremely narrow, yet fallacious way: if one artifact/character can manipulate the other artifact/character, this must presume that the former has a greater overall scope of power than the other.

That's the fallacy. Because manipulation doesn't presume superiority in scope. It's the same Black Alice > Spectre argument.

Let's approach your argument from the other direction. The converse of your logic is that had the Ultimate Nullifier and its nullification energies been completely unaffected by the IG, then that presumes that the UN is superior in scope right? This is your logic, perfectly extrapolated.

Now apply that logic to IG vs Maelstrom. Hmph. Guess since Maelstrom was completely unaffected by the IG, then that presumes that Maelstrom is superior in scope to the IG, eh? Answer this question, yes or no.

I await your reply.

bump

There has been debate in the Thanos vs. wanda thread about IG vs. UN so can those people debate that in this thread instead of that one.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
bump

There has been debate in the Thanos vs. wanda thread about IG vs. UN so can those people debate that in this thread instead of that one.
It doesn't really work that way. This argument has spanned half a dozen threads, maybe more.

^ The scope of the UN's power knows no bounds. biscuits But in all seriousness: Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Well look, I personally don't doubt your sincerity here. But if you want to discuss it more, I still don't understand your position. You think nullifying one atom requires a certain amount of power... and nullifying two atoms requires twice that certain amount of power... right?

Then what about nullifying a marble that is made of 10 billion atoms... and nullifying an extremely dense marble that is made of 100 trillion atoms? They're the same size. So?

The gauntlet.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ The scope of the UN's power knows no bounds. biscuits But in all seriousness: So your saying UN could nullify omniverse?

^ Ahem: Originally posted by OneDumbG0
But in all seriousness: You probably didn't mean to, but don't insinuate that I embrace no limits fallacies. crackers

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Ahem: You probably didn't mean to, but don't insinuate that I embrace no limits fallacies. crackers I heard you say that about 20 times.You were the one that said it knows no bounds.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I heard you say that about 20 times.You were the one that said it knows no bounds. I was saying it because quanchi112 used a no limits fallacy to suggest that the IG could match the UN's feat of instantly destroying/recreating the entire Marvel Multiverse because it hasn't shown any limits yet.

And while he ignored Maelstrom and eventually recanted the claim, I simply used his same no limits fallacy to defuse that argument, i.e., the UN hasn't shown any limits yet so it nullifies the entire Omniverse+LT+TOAA.

The stupidity of such a conclusion reveals the inherent stupidity of using that no limits fallacy. Those statements were intended to halt any use of a no limits fallacy for the IG's benefit. Didn't work so much with the spam-fest, as it apparently couldn't be grasped (or was just ignored) so that's why it was said 20+ times or whatever.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I was saying it because quanchi112 used a no limits fallacy to suggest that the IG could match the UN's feat of instantly destroying/recreating the entire Marvel Multiverse because it hasn't shown any limits yet.

And while he ignored Maelstrom and eventually recanted the claim, I simply used his same no limits fallacy to defuse that argument, i.e., the UN hasn't shown any limits yet so it nullifies the entire Omniverse+LT+TOAA.

The stupidity of such a conclusion reveals the inherent stupidity of using that no limits fallacy. Those statements were intended to halt any use of a no limits fallacy for the IG's benefit. Didn't work so much with the spam-fest, as it apparently couldn't be grasped (or was just ignored) so that's why it was said 20+ times or whatever. Just saying this:You say it nullifies TOAA but if TOAA chose it couldn't nullify a pebble.The thing about the UN is that they can only increase it in power.The IG has been deemed to work no longer so they can never make it any stronger.

^ ...

Are you not understanding that "UN > Omniverse/LT/TOAA" statement was meant only to reflect the stupidity of using a no-limit fallacy for the IG? crackers

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ ...

Are you not understanding that "UN > Omniverse/LT/TOAA" statement was meant only to reflect the stupidity of using a no-limit fallacy for the IG? crackers Yes I know what quan was saying about "well Ig hasn't been shown to do it et so prove it can't" argument.I'm confused...I was up till 1 am last night and have woke up at 9...i'll be back tomorrow when i acctually understand what others and myself are talking about.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Yes I know what quan was saying about "well Ig hasn't been shown to do it et so prove it can't" argument.I'm confused...I was up till 1 am last night and have woke up at 9...i'll be back tomorrow when i acctually understand what others and myself are talking about. Oh noes, not only 8 hours of sleep. That's terrible....

I miss being 13

Originally posted by Original Smurph
Oh noes, not only 8 hours of sleep. That's terrible....

I miss being 13 Not that but the fact that currently,form where I am.Have been up for like 15 hrs.

lol, is that long?

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Yes I know what quan was saying about "well Ig hasn't been shown to do it et so prove it can't" argument.I'm confused...I was up till 1 am last night and have woke up at 9...i'll be back tomorrow when i acctually understand what others and myself are talking about. That's... that's actually his negative proof fallacy. crackers

...

Blast! You've foiled my efforts yet again! durhulk

What would stop the IG from controlling the UN's energies and reverting them back at Galactus?

^ The same thing that stops Human Torch from controlling the Earth's Sun.

Common sense.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Not that but the fact that currently,form where I am.Have been up for like 15 hrs. So, you woke up at 9 AM and stayed up til midnight?

Geez, boy, you must be tuckered right out. What a long day.

ermm

Originally posted by Original Smurph
So, you woke up at 9 AM and stayed up til midnight?

Geez, boy, you must be tuckered right out. What a long day.

ermm It's not that i've been up for a while and am tired it the reason why I am up.I was up until 1 am last night at a concert for the bands bonerama and the blasters.

Originally posted by Original Smurph
So, you woke up at 9 AM and stayed up til midnight?

Geez, boy, you must be tuckered right out. What a long day.

ermm

Originally posted by Black bolt z
It's not that i've been up for a while and am tired it the reason why I am up.I was up until 1 am last night at a concert for the bands bonerama and the blasters. I've never heard of them, but obviously they're pretty hardcore if you're so exhausted the next day. You musta been right up in that mosh pit, eh? Probably a regular crowd surfer.

Also, I'm just being a prick now. Go to bed.

lmao smurph

Originally posted by Original Smurph
I've never heard of them, but obviously they're pretty hardcore if you're so exhausted the next day. You musta been right up in that mosh pit, eh? Probably a regular crowd surfer.

Also, I'm just being a prick now. Go to bed. seriously look them up on youtube.Bonerama is pretty good.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I was saying it because quanchi112 used a no limits fallacy to suggest that the IG could match the UN's feat of instantly destroying/recreating the entire Marvel Multiverse because it hasn't shown any limits yet.

And while he ignored Maelstrom and eventually recanted the claim, I simply used his same no limits fallacy to defuse that argument, i.e., the UN hasn't shown any limits yet so it nullifies the entire Omniverse+LT+TOAA.

The stupidity of such a conclusion reveals the inherent stupidity of using that no limits fallacy. Those statements were intended to halt any use of a no limits fallacy for the IG's benefit. Didn't work so much with the spam-fest, as it apparently couldn't be grasped (or was just ignored) so that's why it was said 20+ times or whatever. Seeing as we have a direct comparison and the ig came away as much more powerful what is so far fetched about it matching the power required here? It's also been described as absolute power before. Do I need to post the definitions side by side so you can figure out what that means.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ The same thing that stops Human Torch from controlling the Earth's Sun.

Common sense. So even though we have seen stories suggest that the power gem has no limits we assume this is it's limit? Seriously?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Seeing as we have a direct comparison and the ig came away as much more powerful what is so far fetched about it matching the power required here? It's also been described as absolute power before. Do I need to post the definitions side by side so you can figure out what that means.

So even though we have seen stories suggest that the power gem has no limits we assume this is it's limit? Seriously? Yes. IG is a lot more powerful than a tiny sphere of nullification in an outdated story. Clearly. And Ironman is more powerful than the combined power of the Infinity Gems in an outdated story.

Hey Black bolt z, this is the no limits fallacy I was talking about.

Naturally the response is, though we have seen stories suggest that the UN has no limits we assume that it can't nullify Omniverse/LT/TOAA?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yes. IG is a lot more powerful than a tiny sphere of nullification in an outdated story. Clearly. And Ironman is more powerful than the combined power of the Infinity Gems in an outdated story.

Hey Black bolt z, this is the no limits fallacy I was talking about.

Naturally the response is, though we have seen stories suggest that the UN has no limits we assume that it can't nullify Omniverse/LT/TOAA? Again, what do we have to suggest that we ignore the actual comparison? Hmmmm?

The power gem has been described as having no limits has the un?

^ A new story that reveals the true power of the UN: Abraxas story. dur

Yes.

Now say it: "I'm quanchi112, and I believe that the UN nullifying a small marble is just as powerful a feat as nullifying AND RECREATING the entire Marvel Multiverse." arrrgh

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ A new story that reveals the true power of the UN: Abraxas story.

Yes.

Now say it: "I'm quanchi112, and I believe that the UN nullifying a small marble is just as powerful a feat as nullifying AND RECREATING the entire Marvel Multiverse." When did It reveal the true power? What are you even talking about anymore? You seem to blow everything out of proportion and just make things up at this point.

^ When did the Infintiy Gems show their true power? Guess, Ironman >>>> Gems' power! dur

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ When did the Infintiy Gems show their true power? Guess, Ironman >>>> Gems' power! dur In Thanos quest where the true purpose was explained. When did the un's true power get revealed?

^ Quanchilogic: "That story doesn't matter! The inherent power of the Gems never changed. Ironman destroyed the Star Gem. Ironman >>>> Gems' power. Why do you make things up just to make a point?"

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Quanchilogic: "That story doesn't matter! The inherent power of the Gems never changed. Ironman destroyed the Star Gem. Ironman >>>> Gems' power. Why do you make things up just to make a point?"

When did I say anything in any story didn't matter? Are you ten? What I said was when did the un's true power get revealed? I'd like an answer.

^ Quanchilogic: "Based on? You haven't proved anything. Stop ignoring what happened in one storyline. Ironman wtfpwned the Star Gem. Hmmmmm?"

the star gem was just a devise to be the reservoir for the other gem's powers, it didn't have the innate indestructibility of the real infinity gems.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Quanchilogic: "Based on? You haven't proved anything. Stop ignoring what happened in one storyline. Ironman wtfpwned the Star Gem. Hmmmmm?" So when the un nullified something it revealed it's true power? I guess prior to 2001 we never knew it could do so.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Quanchilogic: "Based on? You haven't proved anything. Stop ignoring what happened in one storyline. Ironman wtfpwned the Star Gem. Hmmmmm?"

We call it "Quangical analysis."

Originally posted by psycho gundam
the star gem was just a devise to be the reservoir for the other gem's powers, it didn't have the innate indestructibility of the real infinity gems. And a tiny sphere of nullification isn't a Multiverse destroying/recreation blast. Originally posted by quanchi112
So when the un nullified something it revealed it's true power? I guess prior to 2001 we never knew it could do so. *ahem* Multiverse-wide nullification. Multiverse-wide RECREATION.