Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I know for a fact that this thread has been done before.

Matter of fact heres the link: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=427129&highlight=Maul+Bastilla


Hey, I was even the last poster of that thread!

Anyway, who wins? Setting is in Endar Spire's bridge.

Bastilla as a Sith or as a Jedi?

Bastilla as a Sith became very powerful. She would use "Force Wave" to throw Maul many yards away and then she will use her "Light Saber Throw" ability to end Maul's threat.

Bastilla as a Jedi was also powerful. But she can be defeated by Maul in a pure Saber Combat.

I say Bastilla. She's much stronger in the force, and arguably as strong with a saber.

Is there any proof that Maul would even be able to defend against her lightning? Given that he wasn't able to block Mighella's, only able to resist it, whereas Bastilla is clearly far more powerful in the force than Mighella is, I'd say Bastilla just kills him with her lightning.

Oh yeah she uses force lightning while Maul is busy chopping her head off...Why did you remake this isn't it already established Maul would skull *uck her.

All that was established, from what I saw, is that you got BURNED by Darth Subjekt.

But anyways Ac, if Maul is that good, why wasn't he like that against Mighella? 'Cause you're a fanboy? Oh right, that's it.

Originally posted by Sexyback
I say Bastilla. She's much stronger in the force, and arguably as strong with a saber.

Ah what the hell makes you think Bastila is good with a saber, or anywhere near Mauls level?

She was stated to be a saber prodigy by Vandar, she was one of the top dogs in one of the most martial eras ever, she constantly faced combat against other force users, she was able somewhat contend with Malak and Revan...

Direct Quote please, Im VERY hesitant to take the word of a known liar, of someone who misquotes and mis interprets everything.

Bastilla was never considered to be a Saber Prodigy.

Master Vandar only termed Revan as a Saber Prodigy and none other.

And the only known master swordsmen of KOTOR era are:

- Revan
- Exar Kun
- Malak
- Yusanis
- Sion

Bastilla is indeed good with Saber and is among the list of those few Jedi/Sith that preferably use Double Bladed Light Saber in Combat. But still I believe that Maul is better.

He alone handled Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan very well and was capable enough to defeat them both in a straight Saber Fight.

Bastilla only has chance through her knowledge of Force in this case.

Maul is better than Mighella in terms of lightsaber combat definately. As for the Force, Bastila is better. Overall though, due to Maul's agility, resistance (he resisted Mighella's Force Lightning), strength, and skill he'll take the victory.

Bastilla, saber combat is close but she knows more Force Powers.

Where has Bastilla's "extreme skill" with a lightsaber been identified? I am hesitant to say that she'd take someone on Maul's level. Maul was referred to, by the TPM visual guide, as "one of the deadliest Sith apprentices in history". He's far more versed in combat than she is. He's faster, stronger, more agile, and imbued with skills in martial arts. I don't see her beating him in physical combat - even if it is with a lightsaber.

He was able to take on Anoon Bondara - a legendary lightsaber duelist, with moderate difficulty only. He manhandled Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan at the same time. He did well against Sidious in a mock battle, even.

If anything, Maul is extremely durable and possesses intense stamina and a pain threshold. Bastilla's only option is for Force powers, and I don't see her disabling or killing him with lightning.

If it goes to sabers, I see her dying without too much difficulty.

Mighella broke through his lightsaber defence with lightning. Bastilla, who is far stronger in the force will do the same, except her lightning will actually be too strong for Maul to resist.

Oh yes he just can't use his lightsaber to block it

Hard fight. I think bastilla has more force power (and said to be strong with the force) but about lightsaber skill is hard to know... Ok, i say a tie.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Oh yes he just can't use his lightsaber to block it

Well he couldn't against a weaker force user. Face it, Bastilla pwns, she's too strong in the force.

Maul is overrated in lightsaber combat, he's pretty whack in TPM, sure he can do some nice acrobatics, but he leaves himself open and is too reckless. Bastilla has far more experience than he does against lightsaber users, she was stated to be a saber prodigy by the masters at Dantooine, she's much stronger in the force which is a huge factor in lightsaber fights, she was one of the best in one of the most martial periods ever, I'd say it can be deduced that she's above Maul in lightsaber combat, but that's irrelevant really, as she pwns him with the force. Bastilla easily has this.

For once I agree with the Sexy Beast. Besides, pissed off TPm kenobi is better then Maul in kombat anyway.

For once I agree with the Sexy Beast

Originally posted by Sexyback
Maul is overrated in lightsaber combat, he's pretty whack in TPM, sure he can do some nice acrobatics, but he leaves himself open and is too reckless. Bastilla has far more experience than he does against lightsaber users, she was stated to be a saber prodigy by the masters at Dantooine, she's much stronger in the force which is a huge factor in lightsaber fights, she was one of the best in one of the most martial periods ever, I'd say it can be deduced that she's above Maul in lightsaber combat, but that's irrelevant really, as she pwns him with the force. Bastilla easily has this.


Do tell sock, where is this quote that says Bastila is a saber prodigy? Do tell sock, where this quote is that says Bastila has "LEET" saber skills. Do tell sock, where its said Bastila was one of the best, when she even admits that she's not the hot shit she lets on to be. Do tell sock, where it says Padawan Bastila was stronger then Master Lucien Draay and the Covenant, The Dantooine council, the Coruscant council, Vima Sunrider, Nomi Sunrider, Master Thon, Tott, and all the other Jedi during KOTOR. Your a liar.

Vandar stated in Dantooine, 'Ah, I see you have met padawan Bastilla, a rising star in the jedi ranks, prodigous both with the force and the saber'. BTW, I'm loving your tactic which makes it seem like you're responding to four points when you're only responding to two, I commend you.

BTW, you downgrade Maul's swordsmanship here, yet in the Vader vs. Tyranus thread, you treat Maul as a god of a swordsman to suit your own wicked purposes.

HAHAHA pwnt again

In comparison to clumsy old Vader, he is a God.

Man, you are like the biggest Anti-Fanboy of Vader, aren't you?

Why yes I am, and it's because he sucks.

No way Maul loses this.

He is faster, stronger, smarter, more skilled, and trained, by Sidious, to be a Jedi killer. Bastilla is a Padawan, she isn't great. Maul tooled Qui Gon, you know, Dooku's apprentice? Said to be on par with Mace Windu as of The Phantom Menace? The best duelist Obi Wan had ever seen? Yeah, Maul beat him down, after he had meditated, in thirty seconds flat.

Source anything that shows Bastilla is even close to Maul with the force or with a saber. I've seen a lot of claims, with no backing them up. From the Ultimate Visual Guide:

"...Mighella, a highly trained bodyguard, who is also a witch of Dathomir, or Nightsister. Like all Nightsisters, she is skilled in the use of the dark side of the force. Mighella attempts to use an energised sword to stop Darth Maul, then surprises him with a burst of force lightning.
The moment after Mighella realises her opponent is a Sith Lord, with far superior dark side knowledge, she is felled by a lethal slash of Maul's lightsaber."

Page 33.

I'm not too sure. We haven't seen much to gauge her skill and prowess with a Lightsaber.

Yeah, I'd like to know where the ridiculous theory that Bastilla is so much greater than Maul originated. The TPM visual guide makes it quite clear that Maul was "one of the most deadly Sith apprentices in history". This guy was trained to be the ultimate weapon - imbued with hatred and an outrageous amount of discipline in physical combat.

So, let's break it down for those who disagree. Maul is stronger than Bastilla (by a lot). Maul is faster than Bastilla (by a lot). Maul is more agile than Bastilla (by a lot). Maul is far more versed in physical combat and martial arts than Bastilla. She doesn't have a ghost of a prayer against him in physical combat. Maul manhandled Qui-Gon Jinn (a Jedi trained by Count Dooku, on par with Mace - who is above and beyond Bastilla) and Obi-Wan at the same time (and it is suggested that he was even toying with them, as Shadow Hunter reveals that he had a habit of doing). He also faced Anoon Bondara in combat, an extremely gifted lightsaber instructor whom Qui-Gon considered to be on par with any of the Council (including Yoda - who Bastilla wouldn't even so much as trouble in a duel). Bondara knew that he was outclassed by Maul, and thought that it was only a matter of time before Maul killed him - which he did.

Combined with the quotes from the visual guide that Jollyjim provided, Mighella was powerful - and her attack was one of surprise - and yet Maul's strength and stamina withstood her intense lightning attack (he wasn't even prepared for it), and then he butchered her right after she realized his skill was much more than hers.

What's Bastilla got going for her?

Oh, yeah. She almost faced Revan in combat, and got tortured to the dark side by Malak.

Yeah. Like that measures up. Maul pwns her.

O RLY?



Proof?



Which sith isn't trained to be a jedi killer?
Anyways, I'm pretty sure Darth Sidious held him back if anything. He taught him like nothing of the darkside, Bastilla has extensive training both in the lightside and darkside.



Excuse me? She was a force and saber prodigy, a rising star in the jedi ranks, and I'm pretty sure she was promoted to a knight just before she began her adventure with Revan. Also, need I remind you that Maul was defeated by a padawan?



This is great and all, but Bastilla has faced far more and actually survived. Given how martial the KotOR time period was, how many jedi/sith action there was, and how many dark jedi Revan, Bastilla and co faced, it can be deduced that she faced many. Even canonically, given the small amount we know, she has more kills under her belt than Maul does.

Maul killed only five force users in his time, only three of which used lightsabers, before getting killed by a padawan. Hell, Kenobi was even able to outduel him once using the darkside, and Darth Maul had to use a force push to save himself from Obi-Wan's onslaught.



Exactly, as of The Phantom Menace, years before Mace actually got relatively powerful.



Obi-Wan is his apprentice, he's naturally going to be a tad bit biased, and the fact is, he was only a padawan, he hadn't seen that much.



That's real great and all, but you're only focusing on his good aspects. Did you forget how padawan Kenobi was able to flip over him, pull his lightsaber towards him, and slice him up before he could do jack to defend himself? Pretty sloppy reflexes, I'd say.

And need I remind you how Bastilla was shown to toy with and defeat a dark jedi in seconds (in Revan's vision, aboard his ship), and it can be assumed that this dark jedi was pretty skilled given the fact that he was accompanying Darth Revan, and Bastilla just pwned him in seconds, and this was quite a bit of time before KotOR.



1. Being labelled as a force prodigy.
2. Instantly being able to stun Jolee Bindo and Juhani on the spot.
3. The extent of her battle meditation.

there's more, that's just off the top of my head



Who isn't labelled as 'skilled', or 'strong in the force' in the SW universe? When it's said about a gazillion times, it's no longer considered that great in the big picture. The fact is, if she was anything special, Darth Sidious would have tried to recruit her, she wouldn't serve as a simple bodyguard, now please, Bastilla is far stronger in the force than she is, there's no reason to assume she wouldn't be able to do the same, except with more effect. Maul just can't win this.

Okay, all quotes and references are from the Ultimate visual Guide. Maul wins this.

Maul is a beast. He is "An almost unstoppable weapon." He had "Constant training to become stronger, faster, and smarter than any adversary could anticipate." Maul "Masters the lightsaber and practices martial arts and marksmanship." He "Survives a month against a legion of assassin droids." During his duel with Sidious, he "Opens himself up to the darkside and becomes a true Sith Lord." Maul is also a master of Teras Kasi, the ultimate martial arts style, and incorporates his style and attacks into his lightsaber techniques.

Not enough? I think it is, but, if you want to be stubborn:
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=009
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=010
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=011
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=012
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=013
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=041
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=042
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=043
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=044
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=045
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=051 (look at the bodies)
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=064
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=066
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=067
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=068
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=069
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=073 (Those are Vigos, more than average punks, some of the deadliest people around, only 7 in the galaxy.)
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=074
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=075
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=076
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=077
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=079
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=080
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=084
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=085
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=086
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=087
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=091

Planet, "Bastilla had extensive training in the lightside and dark side"? I do hope that you're not referring to Bastilla's tenure as Malak's apprentice. Like that even registers next to Maul's twenty six years as a Sith Lord.

It was enough time for her to learn force lightning, Maul didn't even know that, Sidious clearly trained him to be nothing more than a swordsman.

Originally posted by Sexyback
It was enough time for her to learn force lightning, Maul didn't even know that, Sidious clearly trained him to be nothing more than a swordsman.

Has it been confirmed that Maul didn't know Force lightning? Or, are we assuming as such because he hasn't been depicted performing it - and relied primarily on his skills with a lightsaber and martial arts prowess. Considering the multiple, multiple accounts we have had of neophytes using and commanding Force lightning, I'll be pretty damn shocked (no pun intended) if a twenty-six year old Sith Lord, called "the ultimate weapon" didn't have skills in it.

Bastilla didn't have any long amount of time under Malak. Maul did. Even implying that she learned more is idiocy at its finest.

Given how much source material there is on Darth Maul, and the fact that there have been plenty of occasions where using it would actually be beneficial, the fact that he has never displayed it means it's more likely that he never knew it. Really, it's quite clear that Sidious held him back in dark side knowledge.

Well, he has "Far superior dark side knowledge" compared to someone who has lightning. Weather he can use it or not, it doesn't really matter.

Plenty occasions where using it would actually be beneficial? 99% of the time, he manhandled all of his opponents with his lightsaber. I'm not saying that he was a master practitioner of the Force - but it is clear that he relied more on his physical prowess and talents with a lightsaber as opposed to anything else. It is completely ridiculous to assume that a Sith Lord trained to be the "ultimate weapon" as well as "one of the most deadly Sith apprentices in history". Hell, Jollyjim just proved that Maul's knowledge of the dark side far exceeding Mighella's, who was capable of utilizing Force lightning. If anything, it is quite obvious that he had knowledge of it.



Why would he? Sidious had no qualms about teaching Count Dooku a lot of dark side secrets. Especially when you think about it: Sidious would have no reason not to train Maul. Maul had zero ambition to kill Sidious. Zero. None. Dooku was a strong-willed, ambitious thinker and political visionary - and Sidious wasn't afraid of obviously teaching him Force lightning. Especially when Maul, even moreso than Dooku, was trained to be a fighter and warrior. I think that your assertion is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Sexyback
Vandar stated in Dantooine, 'Ah, I see you have met padawan Bastilla, a rising star in the jedi ranks, prodigious both with the force and the saber'. BTW, I'm loving your tactic which makes it seem like you're responding to four points when you're only responding to two, I commend you.


I remember the first part but not the second, and I've played KOTOR NUMEROUS times, I've seen just about every piece of dialog and I don't remember that, till someone else substantiates this I won't believe it.

And really if it was true...so what. She's a padawan, how damn prodigious can a Padawan be, if this was the case she'd be a Knight, if this was the case she'd wouldn't have needed Revan, if this was the case she wouldn't have admitted her own weakness.

Yeah, she needed her ass saved from some common thugs on Taris.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Yeah, she needed her ass saved from some common thugs on Taris.

This is an obvious indication that she could hand Maul's ass to him on a silver platter. Hell, she could comfortably take him and Sidious and Yoda at the same time! Lolololol!1111!!!

Sorry. I was using Planet-logic. How'd I do?

"Give me a source, that I like, from George Lucas himself saying that Maul can beat Bastilla. Can't do it? And you call me a sock..."

Originally posted by jollyjim311
"Give me a source, that I like, from George Lucas himself saying that Maul can beat Bastilla. Can't do it? And you call me a sock..."

Lol.

Didn't quite pull it off.

Originally posted by Sexyback
Didn't quite pull it off.

Teach me the ways of the dark side of The Logic, my mastah...

So... Maul wins.

Don't ask for proof, look at the links and all the stuff I posted.

Also, Bastilla needed help when she was put in a cage by common thugs. Her battle meditation is impressive, but, it won't help here. Maul has slain a freaking army, and with no distress.

Bastilla's much stronger in the force, and it's not even definite that Maul is a better saber duelist. So I'd say Bastilla wins.

Originally posted by Sexyback
Bastilla's much stronger in the force, and it's not even definite that Maul is a better saber duelist. So I'd say Bastilla wins.

Okay, can you put all your basis for that in a post, please?

That was when she was weak after crash landing on Taris, and those 'common thugs' had used stimulants to suppress her force strength, IIRC.



The strength of the force required to be so adept at battle meditation will help here.

Only because she lost her lightsaber in the crash. And besides she said that it took a LOT of those commno thugs to take her down, even without her lightsaber.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Okay, can you put all your basis for that in a post, please?

I already have.

1. Being labelled as a force prodigy.
2. Instantly stunning Juhani and Jolee Bindo on the spot.
3. Given how great her battle meditation is.

That was AFTER they captured her genius, thats when they put her in the force suppressant cage.

Originally posted by Blaxican
Only because she lost her lightsaber in the crash. And besides she said that it took a LOT of those commno thugs to take her down, even without her lightsaber.


She won't admit that you saved her, and is trying to seem holier-than-thou because she is a Jedi. Also, the thugs wouldn't kill her, she was worth too much.

Originally posted by Sexyback
I already have.

1. Being labelled as a force prodigy.
2. Instantly stunning Juhani and Jolee Bindo on the spot.
3. Given how great her battle meditation is.

She is gifted in the one area of Battle Meditation.

Still, that's not enough to take on Maul.

Ignored point #2, huh?

And AC, again, she was weak after having crash landed on taris, and like Blaxican said, she didn't have her lightsaber on her.


But really, this downplaying thing that you guys are doing is nice, real good stuff, it in no way shows that you're both fanboys.

Well apparently she is uber with the force, no common thugs should be able to touch her...




Fanboys of whom? I actually like Bastila, its just in this case she gets owned, Im only correcting your misinformation as usual.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Okay, all quotes and references are from the Ultimate visual Guide. Maul wins this.

Maul is a beast. He is "An almost unstoppable weapon." He had "Constant training to become stronger, faster, and smarter than any adversary could anticipate." Maul "Masters the lightsaber and practices martial arts and marksmanship." He "Survives a month against a legion of assassin droids." During his duel with Sidious, he "Opens himself up to the darkside and becomes a true Sith Lord." Maul is also a master of Teras Kasi, the ultimate martial arts style, and incorporates his style and attacks into his lightsaber techniques.

Not enough? I think it is, but, if you want to be stubborn:
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=009
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=010
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=011
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=012
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=013
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=041
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=042
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=043
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=044
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=045
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=051 (look at the bodies)
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=064
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=066
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=067
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=068
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=069
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=073 (Those are Vigos, more than average punks, some of the deadliest people around, only 7 in the galaxy.)
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=074
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=075
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=076
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=077
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=079
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=080
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=084
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=085
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=086
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=087
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=11&page=091

Does it look like I'm trying to downplay Bastilla? No. I'm just posting that Maul is a beast. I mean "Despite their combined training and experience, the Jedi are not prepared for the ruthless fighting techniques employed by Darth Maul." Also, "Darth Maul uses his superior Sith fighting skills" to kill a battle-focused Qui Gon in thirty seconds.

Planet, you seriously need to stop dishing out the "fanboy!" moniker to people whose arguments you don't agree with. You're a self-professed fanboy yourself, so you're on identical footing. I could point out that you're a Bastilla fanboy, by suggesting that her knowledge of the dark side actually came anywhere close to that of Maul's. Such an assertion is stupid.

Bastilla isn't a Force titan. Maul's knowledge of the dark side far outstrips her own, and he has been shown to resist Force lightning from a relatively strong Force user, which only speaks well for him, considering how the whole attack was one of "surprise" according to the visual guide.

He is far more versed in melee combat skills than she is. He's stronger. He's faster. He's more agile. He's got this in the bag. So, stop making ridiculous and falsified assessments and make something logical. I understand that such a thing will be out of character, but that's the way debates are won - not through your habit of extreme exaggeration and refusal to accept fact.

Again, she was weak after the crash.



Whom? That's posh. Perhaps Darth Maul.



Like her as in, like her? Do you like Revan too?



Like he owned Mighella, right? - (gosh, who made that smilie, I love it!)

Stated by whom? Bastila certainly didn't say she was weakened, its only you...





Apparently Im a fanboy of everyone I argue against you about.

Weakened was just a guess, a more likely explanation would be that she passed out, just like Revan and Carth did, and by the time she woke up, she was put in that cage thingy.

How would she fight the thugs (which she claimed she did and you did) if she was unconscious from the start...come now sock, you have to keep track you the dumb things you post...

Ok, first of all, I played KotOR like a gazillion years ago, so excuse me if my memory on it's a tad bit shoddy. The point is, she's proven herself to be uber, so the only explanation is that she was weakened from the crash.

I've also just been informed that Bastilla was able to use a jedi mind trick on a hutt, suggesting an incredible willpower.

Originally posted by Sexyback
Ok, first of all, I played KotOR like a gazillion years ago, so excuse me if my memory on it's a tad bit shoddy. The point is, she's proven herself to be uber, so the only explanation is that she was weakened from the crash.

Your "extreme skillz" as a debater notwithstanding (lol), this is one of the lamest posts you've ever made. What a bunch of bull. You make an outrageous exaggeration (a meaner person than me might even go so far as to call it a "lie", and now you're turning tail and making excuses and crediting your actions to logical deduction?

Boy, doesn't this sound familiar. This is kind've like our most recent debacles involving Bane.

Another viable answer could be: she's good - not uber, but good - and simply got outmaneuvered by these thugs.

Originally posted by Sexyback
I've also just been informed that Bastilla was able to use a jedi mind trick on a hutt, suggesting an incredible willpower.

Didn't Return of the Jedi make it clear that Hutts were immune to Jedi mind tricks? If so, then Bastilla's "mind tricking a Hutt" is non canon. And if it only applied to Jabba, then what she did is nothing special.

Originally posted by Gideon
Your "extreme skillz" as a debater notwithstanding (lol), this is one of the lamest posts you've ever made. What a bunch of bull. You make an outrageous exaggeration (a meaner person than me might even go so far as to call it a "lie", and now you're turning tail and making excuses and crediting your actions to logical deduction?

Boy, doesn't this sound familiar. This is kind've like our most recent debacles involving Bane.

Another viable answer could be: she's good - not uber, but good - and simply got outmaneuvered by these thugs. And would get owned by Maul.

Originally posted by Gideon
Didn't Return of the Jedi make it clear that Hutts were immune to Jedi mind tricks? If so, then Bastilla's "mind tricking a Hutt" is non canon. And if it only applied to Jabba, then what she did is nothing special.

Didn't realise that Jabba the Hutt was infallible, LOL! Clearly, a force user with a high enough willpower would be able to pull it off.

Originally posted by Gideon
Your "extreme skillz" as a debater notwithstanding (lol), this is one of the lamest posts you've ever made. What a bunch of bull. You make an outrageous exaggeration (a meaner person than me might even go so far as to call it a "lie", and now you're turning tail and making excuses and crediting your actions to logical deduction?

Boy, doesn't this sound familiar. This is kind've like our most recent debacles involving Bane.

Another viable answer could be: she's good - not uber, but good - and simply got outmaneuvered by these thugs.

Please, Bastilla has shown herself to be somewhat of a force titan, if she was really in perfect condition, she would have simply disarmed the thugs with the force, used a shield to block any of the blaster bolts, and stunned them with the force. She's shown herself to be that good. Now the fact that she did get disarmed leaves only a few other explanations.

1. She was severely weakened from the crash.
2. She improved drastically from this point towards the end of KotOR.
3. She was incredibly unlucky.

The point is, you can't use the occasion to downplay Bastilla.

Originally posted by Sexyback
Didn't realise that Jabba the Hutt was infallible, LOL! Clearly, a force user with a high enough willpower would be able to pull it off.

Didn't realize Jabba would have a reason to lie or be misinformed, LOL! I suppose Watto was incorrect when he proclaimed Toydarians were immune to mind tricks. Regardless, if Hutts as a whole are immune to the Force trick, then Bastilla's maneuver is non canon.



The fact that you're "Force titan" got captured by a group of ragtag thugs is embarrassing, and yes, it goes to show that she's really not among the best of the best in terms of fighting. She's no match for Maul.

Give Bastila when credit due people. Yes, Maul could kill her, but he cannot destroy as you guys have wonderfully put out.

Bastila Shan:

Force-

One of the greatest users of the Battle Meditation technique.
__________________________________________________
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Learned many Dark Side moves in a very limited amount of time.
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Considered to be one of the strongest Jedi by the Dantooine Jedi High Council
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Wanted by Darth Malak; even though he desired her Battle Meditation, why make her apprentice unless she was powerful as well.
__________________________________________________
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Lightsaber-

Nothing suggests Bastila to be prodigious with the saber, however she does have some impressive feats.

Bastila was the personal leader of a Jedi strike team into Revan's flagship itself. A strike team isn't an army, and since the unit's objective is to kill Revan at all costs, then it's more likely it was a small group (like 7 members) to not draw the full attention of the ships security force. Revan, the tactical genius, more likely knew of such an attempt of the Jedi and probably buffed security. Yet Bastila managed to survive with three Jedi to reach into the control room of the ship itself and manage to corner Revan. You see her also pwning one of Revan's personal Dark Jedi Master security. That is quite amazing.

However, I again stress Maul's endurance and speed with his lightsaber skills help him overwhelm Shan. My point was Bastila ain't a weak kitten.

Maul has mastered his weapon, the same one that Bastilla uses (double bladed). He wins, but, I guess it takes some effort.

Yes that was my intention. I mean, Maul cannot destroy Shan. He'll kill her certainly, but it won't be a massacre. That was the idea I was getting from the responses in this thread.

Haven't we already been through the whole "strike team" crap? And Jedi strike teams usually consist of at least 12 Knights and Masters, considering the strike team on the SF and the Strike Team that Jango Fett fought. Was Bastila the leader? She was a padawan remember, why the f*ck would the Jedi put a Padawan in charge of taking down Darth f*cking Revan?

I know it sounds weird, but the Planet logic is right for once. Revan was out for days when he and Carth landed on Taris. Bastila managed to remain in consciousness and was very weak to go all out on the Taris thugs. And note, the Black Vulkars are not weaklings. The fact that they are the most feared gang in all of the backstreets of Taris means something. Bastila was able to run though the gauntlet of Revan's flagship security and kill his own personal master guard. I'm sure in good health she would have no trouble with the Vulkars.

No we haven't AC. I didn't get to continue my argument in the previous thread.

First off, when was there a strike team on the Star Forge? Second, when did Jango fight a strike team of 12 Knights and Masters? Sorry, I was proof of this. Pardon my pickiness.

The Jedi Council believed she was on the strongest among the group. You saw how they remarked on her when on Dantooine. The fact she got to Revan is a testament to her power.

And being a Padawan means shit. Bastila was the finest exemplar of BM and a powerful knight. If she was a Padawan, why did they put her on that ship?

Vandar says that there was already a team of knights in place on the Star FOrge they are all those other Jedi fighting on the Star Forge. Jango fights the strike team in Open Season, Dooku even comments how he killed "so many of us"



Not really, its a testament to how she could have simply run ahead, which she has already shown she WILL do.



You answered your own question for her Battle Meditation.

it is highly obvious Sexyback is a fanboy of kotor

Did it say in Open Season that there was a Jedi Strike Team sent?

Second, the Jedi on the Star Forge were that many. In one cutscene, you see around 4 getting killed by the Sith. I would say for effectiveness, a Jedi Strike Team would probably be like 12 Jedi or so.



When has she shown this?

Second, if she did run ahead, then I guess she dismantled Revan's security herself. If she decided to screw the group and run for Revan, she would have faced the security by herself, and apprently killed them all then.



You cannot use Battle Meditation while running and fighting. You have to sit down and think. The Jedi sent her as part of a Strike Team to infiltrate and kill Darth Revan. If they were used only for BM, then why didn't they put her on a capitol ship?

I believe that some people down-play Bastilla very much, which is not good. I know that she is whinny and all that but she was indeed a powerful Jedi. And Jedi Council had high expectations from her.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
Did it say in Open Season that there was a Jedi Strike Team sent?

Second, the Jedi on the Star Forge were that many. In one cutscene, you see around 4 getting killed by the Sith. I would say for effectiveness, a Jedi Strike Team would probably be like 12 Jedi or so.
Yes! a Jedi Strike Team actually went in to the Star Forge. Not all were shown in the battle because some ships landed on other "Landing Pods", where we could not go .

5 Jedi were already standing where we landed and 5 more went inside and we saw them getting killed on two occassions.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
When has she shown this?
She has shown this in case of Malak. She rushed towards him and tried to fight him on her own and got trapped in the process. Even though the excuse was to save Revan and Carth.


Originally posted by General Kenobl
Second, if she did run ahead, then I guess she dismantled Revan's security herself. If she decided to screw the group and run for Revan, she would have faced the security by herself, and apprently killed them all then.
She was accompanied by other powerful Jedi as well. So it is safe to say that her team actually dismantled Revan's security.

But remember that Darth Malak had actually helped them in this process in some way. He himself says that "I helped them", when we face him on Leviathan.

But Bastilla (as usual) gives all credit to her BM capability. She is really not very reliable.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
You cannot use Battle Meditation while running and fighting. You have to sit down and think. The Jedi sent her as part of a Strike Team to infiltrate and kill Darth Revan. If they were used only for BM, then why didn't they put her on a capitol ship?
I agree!

But it was more of a suicide mission. Those Jedi were not powerful enough to defeat Darth Revan on their own. The Jedi Council played a big gamble by ordering this mission and this shows that how desperate they were against Revan's on-slaught. The Jedi Council was even willing to sacrifice Bastilla in the process.

I'd say Bastilla's easily above someone like Mace Windu or Count Dooku with the force, on Yoda's level, and it can be deduced that her saber skills are pretty high too.

Originally posted by Sexyback
I'd say Bastilla's easily above someone like Mace Windu or Count Dooku with the force, on Yoda's level, and it can be deduced that her saber skills are pretty high too.
Are you serious?

My conclusion about her is:

In terms of Saber Skills: She is close to Maul.

In terms of Force: She is above Maul and below Dooku.

She is lesser than Maul, and probably around the level of TPM QGJ.

Originally posted by Sexyback
I'd say Bastilla's easily above someone like Mace Windu or Count Dooku with the force, on Yoda's level, and it can be deduced that her saber skills are pretty high too.

O my god, thats just pure horseshit,

And what the hell puts bastila in the force above mace windu and count dooku?

Those powers you learnt in gameplay arent canon by the way unless it is demonstrated in cut scenes.

That means she has
force wave
BM force lightning
and stasis field

Thats all

Her BM was incredible, she was labelled as a force prodigy, became even stronger in the force once being powered up by the SF, was able to stun Jolee Bindo and Juhani instantly on the spot...

So? exar kun froze hundreds and thousands of people and drained an entire planet to extinction, does that make him a god? No it doesnt

And who the hell put her a force prodigy? That would make her > revan which is not true

She only became temporarily powered up, revan pawned her afterwards
bastila is rather weak, im sure malak put her ass down on the leviathen and phew she got kidnapped by a bunch of thugs and made excuses that her lightsaber rolled under her seat

And lightsaber? come on, maul is using the juyo form, a form which sidious used to pwn 3 other jedis in ROTS

A god? No. Far above any PT force user? Yes.



Wonderful logic.

Just because she learns BM means ZOMG shes a prodigy, luke skywalker and his students all learnt BM too you know.

Nomi sunrider has that ability

It was how strong her BM was.

And that makes her wtf powerful? No only for her allies, try that in battle and die

That's not the point, it speaks for her power. I wasn't saying that she is powerful because she can utilise her incredible BM in a battle, I was saying that the fact that her BM is so incredible speaks for her power.

She was gifted with it thats why, Only her BM is good, everything else sucks, jar jar binks can pwn her in a fist fight

point is she was gifted with a high level of BM, she didnt learn it like her other powers

We actually see how strong in the force she is through other feats, such as stunning two powerful jedi.

But regardless of that, let me get this straight, your argument is that she shows incredible BM, we don't see her doing anything else noteworthy, therefor she sucks at everything else? Great logic!

Lol stunning 2 jedis means you are good? I dont think so

By your logic, because she is good at BM means she is good at everything, great logic!

Yes. Instantly stunning two jedi is an incredible feat.

No! My logic, which is correct, is that given how great her BM is, she must be very powerful with the force.

Originally posted by Sexyback
No! My logic, which is correct , is that given how great her BM is, she must be very powerful with the force.

Lol, thats an oxymoron.

lolz, good one joker.

Originally posted by Sexyback
I'd say Bastilla's easily above someone like Mace Windu or Count Dooku with the force, on Yoda's level, and it can be deduced that her saber skills are pretty high too.

Yeah, but what you say is pretty insignificant.

But then why are you my humble slave?

Originally posted by Sexyback
But then why are you my humble slave?

Because I feel the need to make you seem intelligent by assocation. Despite the sheer idiocy of virtually all your points, you're still human. A poor excuse for one, but a human nonetheless. Hence I feel it necessary to try to make you seem smarter.

Seriously, though, joking aside, Bastilla's not even close to Dooku or Mace in the Force. You're basing that assessment primarily off of her battle meditation. So what? Jorus C'Boath and his clone possessed that skill as well - and on a scale equal to Bastilla's. Yet he was never regarded as anything more than an above average Jedi Master with a God complex.

In an all out fight? Bastilla wouldn't last but ten seconds at most. Dooku would tool her. Mace would tool her.

Then to compare her to Yoda, rofl. No. Yoda'd rape her without any virtual difficulty.

Oh that was a joke?

^Wait, hold up, that wasn't funny, why am I laughing?



What have Dooku or Mace done? And I'm not basing it off that one feat, I can only assume you just can't read, because I've made it clear that there are many points that I base it off.



Very persuasive my friend.



Yoda struggled with that crane that was falling on Obi and Ani in AotC, his raw power is pretty pathetic.

Escape stop wasting your time with this retard.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Escape stop wasting your time with this retard.

You're right, lol. The guy can't understand logic at all. Have you seen my shrine to him? Check out my profile. It's hilarious. When I'm feelin' blue or sad, I go to my KMC profile for a good laugh.

Hey, Ac: "Freidon Nad is teh Chozen On!1111!!!!!"

Bastila is probably better or on the level of TPM Qui-Gon Jinn. Maul killed Qui-Gon in like thirty seconds. This is how long Maul might kill Bastila, however if Bastila decides to prolong the duel using the Force, it might take a minute.

Originally posted by Sexyback
Oh that was a joke?

^Wait, hold up, that wasn't funny, why am I laughing?



What have Dooku or Mace done? And I'm not basing it off that one feat, I can only assume you just can't read, because I've made it clear that there are many points that I base it off.



Very persuasive my friend.



Yoda struggled with that crane that was falling on Obi and Ani in AotC, his raw power is pretty pathetic.

your logic is pretty pathetic. Maybe you're the only one who hasn't noticed that due to being in print, rather than film, and not having much to do with the actual SW time line, that the older Sith/Jedi are extremely overpowered and if that were done in the movies, it would be pretty lame. They're people with special gifts, not Gods in people form with TEH UBER POWA!!!11!!!111

Saying that the possibly most powerful jedi to ever live had a pathetic raw power level, is down right idiotic. Obviously you yourself are the fanboy of all the EU characters and are bias against the films. If Vader was so weak, he wouldn't have been "the chosen one" which I'm sorry to tell you, he was. Also, if Yoda was so weak, he wouldn't have made it to 900 years old.

What it is that AC tells you all the time? It's right on the tip of my tongue...damn, what is it....oh yea...you suck. Loser.

I think you'll find it's your logic which is pretty messed DS, if you think out-of-universe explanations apply in these debates.



Calling someone, who struggled like a ***** with that crane in AotC, possibly the most powerful jedi to ever live, is down right idiotic.



Perhaps it's because the movie characters suck and the EU characters do not rock.



1. No he's not.
2. Cyborg Vader doesn't quite have the chosen one force connection now, does he?




Great logic!
I guess Odun-Urr is a god in your eyes then.



Wait, hold up, what is it that everybody tells you all the time? Oh that's right, nothing!! You're a nobody, people don't even notice you, you come to an internet forum seeking attention that you don't even get. So unlucky!

Each time you bypass the censor, I'm going to replace it with something ridiculous.



Since when haven't they? ermm



And here I provide a quote for you, from Yoda's profile on the OS.

...a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides.



*snicker*

Anyways, maybe it's because the EU overpowers all of their characters, straying as far from Lucas's original view of the Force as possible.



I'm just going to laugh at you until you prove me wrong in the Legacy thread that Vader is not the Chosen One, when George Lucas has said it, very blatantly, that he is.



Eh, I can see the logic there. Not all very old Jedi are all the impressive, it seems.



Cool beans, I don't think that's what people come to a message board for. I certainly didn't join so I could bash idiots senseless and prove people wrong, I joined because I wanted to talk about movies.

Meanwhile, you're the one that continues to register here when you've been banned time and again. Then, you absolutely have to establish yourself as the authority on debating Star Wars.

You have no room to talk in terms of attention-seeking...

We debate from an in-universe perspective. Using out-of-universe explanations don't apply.



Your point being?

We? No, no, no. You. You do not define how other people debate; just you. As far as I'm concerned, as long as it is relevant, you can use whatever the hell you want to debate, in- or out-of-universe.

And do I need to put 'Most powerful' in bold? Maybe Size 8 font as well...

At the time, yeah, so what? How does that directly respond to what I was saying? I was disputing that Yoda may have been possibly the most powerful jedi ever, what you posted does nothing in contradicting that.

I fail to see where it says 'At the time.' Can you point it out to me?

It responds to you saying that 'Saying that Yoda is the most powerful is idiotic.'

Meanwhile, I don't see your response on the Chosen One argument. Can you point that out as well?

Originally posted by Captain REX
I fail to see where it says 'At the time.' Can you point it out to me?

No, that's not how this works. You originally brought the quote up to dispute something I said, it's up to you to prove how so, not up to me to prove a negative.



Nope, I said that saying Yoda is possibly the most powerful ever is idiotic.

I'm sorry, since when did you define how debating works?

And yet that is what the OS is implying.

Planet, you should just turn your monitor away from you when you type. You don't read other peoples arguments. You refuse to listen to canon. You make things up. You go against Lucas. You offer absolutely nothing to these boards.
Not instantly agreeing with the common opinion is fine. Not listening to them just because they are the common opinion isn't. If you continue to act like you have been, I wouldn't be surprised if you got banned, and it would be fitting. You are unbelievably biased. We have posted sources and proof to Anakin being the chosen one, and you just shut your eyes, cover your ears, and b*tch about how you're right.
Now, start providing reasons, listening to other people, and being civil, or else I have a feeling you won't be on these forums much longer...

Now, when did Bastilla freeze the Jedi? Also, Bastilla's Battle Meditation is a specific talent, like Mace Windu's Shatterpoint ability (only, BM is not helpful in single combat). Other Jedi can learn BM, Bastilla just has a special gift for it. Any impressive displays of BM speak for her gift in this specific ability, not her overall ability in the force. Now, unlike Mace Windu, who we have seen displays of power from (like stopping an avalanche with the force, using crush, and the like), we haven't seen Bastillas actual effectiveness in the force, and, it doesn't appear to be anything special. She is good at BM in a time of war, so, she sees a lot more action than someone of her skill level would normally (a padawan, got beaten by thugs who wouldn't use lethal force, and needed to be saved from the same thugs).

Originally posted by Gideon
You're right, lol. The guy can't understand logic at all. Have you seen my shrine to him? Check out my profile. It's hilarious. When I'm feelin' blue or sad, I go to my KMC profile for a good laugh.

Hey, Ac: "Freidon Nad is teh Chozen On!1111!!!!!"

yea yea the shrine, things where you know who fling insults to me funny funny

Originally posted by Kadesh
yea yea the shrine, things where you know who fling insults to me funny funny

?

It's a shrine to the Planet...

i know lol, i got a good laugh to it, its embarrassing to see that fool mentioning my name though

Originally posted by Kadesh
i know lol, i got a good laugh to it, its embarrassing to see that fool mentioning my name though

He's a funny guy (just not in the way he intends).

Originally posted by Gideon
He's a funny guy (just not in the way he intends).

Yea quite funny i guess. anyways can we bury the hatchet? Ignore those PMs i sent you ok? I admit you are right

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Planet, you should just turn your monitor away from you when you type. You don't read other peoples arguments. You refuse to listen to canon. You make things up. You go against Lucas. You offer absolutely nothing to these boards.
Not instantly agreeing with the common opinion is fine. Not listening to them just because they are the common opinion isn't. If you continue to act like you have been, I wouldn't be surprised if you got banned, and it would be fitting. You are unbelievably biased. We have posted sources and proof to Anakin being the chosen one, and you just shut your eyes, cover your ears, and b*tch about how you're right.
Now, start providing reasons, listening to other people, and being civil, or else I have a feeling you won't be on these forums much longer...

Now, when did Bastilla freeze the Jedi? Also, Bastilla's Battle Meditation is a specific talent, like Mace Windu's Shatterpoint ability (only, BM is not helpful in single combat). Other Jedi can learn BM, Bastilla just has a special gift for it. Any impressive displays of BM speak for her gift in this specific ability, not her overall ability in the force. Now, unlike Mace Windu, who we have seen displays of power from (like stopping an avalanche with the force, using crush, and the like), we haven't seen Bastillas actual effectiveness in the force, and, it doesn't appear to be anything special. She is good at BM in a time of war, so, she sees a lot more action than someone of her skill level would normally (a padawan, got beaten by thugs who wouldn't use lethal force, and needed to be saved from the same thugs).

Not responding when I say something he doesn't want to hear... Same thing happened when I posted the quote about Anakin being the chosen one from the Ultimate Visual Guide. Oh well, I can wait...

Why do you think he stopped replying to the Legacy thread? Gideon and I annihilated him with LOGIC and PROOF...

Planet: Prove up with quotes!
Rex: *QUUUOOOOTES*
Gideon: *QUUUOOOOTES*
Planet: ... *runs away*

Originally posted by Captain REX
Why do you think he stopped replying to the Legacy thread? Gideon and I annihilated him with LOGIC and PROOF...

Planet: Prove up with quotes!
Rex: *QUUUOOOOTES*
Gideon: *QUUUOOOOTES*
Planet: ... *runs away*

Prove it, Rex! Waaa!