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so who would win between these guys, yoda and sidious are equals in force abilitys from what ive observed, and mace is second only to yoda so how would he do against vader after 20 years in the suit this is vader from a new hope.

Windu takes this one. If vader used his anger mace would use vaadpad to send him back. Without his anger windu would just be to much for his static stances and movements.

i hear that if vader stops being all self hating as he is, he'd actually be at full power, i read that palpatine told him its not your limbs that make you powerful its your will or something like that, so i guess vader doesnt really use hate or anger, just does his job out of bitterness or something akin to that.

Anyway how would these two do against each other if they just used the force no sabers.

Threads been done before and if this is TESB Vader, he puts up a good fight but loses.

Mace destroys him.

Mace Windu is more powerful then Darth Vader. He will win after a hard fight.

Given how slow and predictable Vader is, it won't be hard for Mace to find his shatterpoint. Mace easily has this.

Vader could either hang with him in melee long enough to get away and try and break him via force powers, or, use his memory and realize he may want to avoid a straight up duel with Mace. Tough fight. Mace has an edge with Vaapad and Shatterpoint, but, Vader is more deadly with force attacks...

Windu wins. Vader is 80% of Sidious. Mace beat Sidious.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Windu wins. Vader is 80% of Sidious. Mace beat Sidious.

So many loopholes for such a short statement.

A>B>C> Argument.
Windu only beat Sidious in lightsaber combat, and was being overpowered by force attacks.
Mace beat ROTS Sidious, ROTJ Sidious has had 20+ years to study while training Vader and others, with, basically, the whole galaxy at his disposal (Including all the Jedi Holocrons).

Originally posted by jollyjim311
So many loopholes for such a short statement.

A>B>C> Argument.
Windu only beat Sidious in lightsaber combat, and was being overpowered by force attacks.
Mace beat ROTS Sidious, ROTJ Sidious has had 20+ years to study while training Vader and others, with, basically, the whole galaxy at his disposal (Including all the Jedi Holocrons).
Windu would probably have lost to Sidious's Force attacks, but that was close and he won in saber combat, so he's far more than 80% of Sidious. Any proof that Sidious trained with Vader or did any training at all between the PT and the OT?

You just got databanked!

"Although Palpatine called for the extermination of the Jedi and any Force-sensitives who could conceivably challenge him, he did keep a few loyal agents who were trained in the Force. Darth Vader was chief among them, as his primary lieutenant and Sith apprentice. Palpatine also had a string of loyal, deadly agents referred to as his "Hands." Mara Jade was foremost among these dedicated enforcers. "

Vader was 80% of RotJ Sidious. I did the math in Vader vs. Dooku and I got Vader as being approximately 95% of RotS Sidious. Because Sidious MAY HAVE BEEN (do not jump down my throat for this) holding back in the duel in RotS while fighting Anakin, I'd give Vader more of a chance than most seem to give him credit for. Here's how I see it:
Force fight: Vader
Lightsaber fight: Windu
Overall: ? (I'd say Windu wins 55 out of 100 times, while Vader takes 45)

if vader cant handle a few jedi he wont handle windu, he put up a good fight with sidious though i still think sidious threw the fight, sidious was fast enough to kill three jedi masters in seconds they didnt even see it comming, there both to fast for vader.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
You just got databanked!

"Although Palpatine called for the extermination of the Jedi and any Force-sensitives who could conceivably challenge him, he did keep a few loyal agents who were trained in the Force. Darth Vader was chief among them, as his primary lieutenant and Sith apprentice. Palpatine also had a string of loyal, deadly agents referred to as his "Hands." Mara Jade was foremost among these dedicated enforcers. "
Um, what has that got to do with anything I said?

lol, exactly! There's nothing in there that disputes what DS was saying.

It would help if you would learn to read, Planet, instead of barging in, commenting about things that you are ignorant of.



Jollyjim provided information from the databank that makes it quite clear that Sidious did perform training with both Vader and other Force-trained agents, such as his Hands and dark side adepts. Sidious improved by quite a bit from RotS to RotJ.

It says that the agents were trained, it doesn't say that Sidious himself trained them.

Originally posted by Sexyback
It says that the agents were trained, it doesn't say that Sidious himself trained them.

Wrong. He personally trained his Hands. Children of the Jedi and Mara Jade's accounts made it quite clear that they learned their technique from Sidious.

I'm not disputing that, all I'm saying is that DS didn't get databanked, because there was nothing in the databank.

Originally posted by Sexyback
I'm not disputing that, all I'm saying is that DS didn't get databanked, because there was nothing in the databank.

No. The databank (with elaborations from myself) made it quite clear that Sidious did train Vader and he did train his agents - which is also common sense when you think about it. Who else would train them? Vader? Vader hadn't even completed his training.

Originally posted by Gideon
No. The databank (with elaborations from myself) made it quite clear that Sidious did train Vader and he did train his agents - which is also common sense when you think about it. Who else would train them? Vader? Vader hadn't even completed his training.

Refer to the .

Okay... Sorry?

"She was once known as the Emperor's Hand -- a highly skilled assassin and operative who could hear Emperor Palpatine's bidding from across the galaxy. Trained since childhood and honed into a weapon, Mara learned self-sufficiency, piloting, marksmanship and talents in the Force while serving her dark master. "

Better?

Okay, yes, it proves that he trained people. When I asked

I meant not just training them, but like sparred w/ them or traned himself (not just training others). So I still want proof that he got stronger hismelf and didn't just train his minions.

You are asking two questions.

Question #1: "Did Sidious train with Vader?"
Answer #1: Yes, he did. He trained not only with Vader, but dozens of dark side adepts.

Question #2: "Did Sidious do any training himself?"
Answer #2: Yes, he did. When the Emperor trained with others, not only is it logical that his own abilities would improve - but they would be active and in fighting condition. Likewise, Vader: the Complete Visual Guide confirms that Sidious allowed people such as Moff Tarkin and Sate Pestage to take care of the more tedious activities so that he could dedicate himself completely to the dark side. There have been accounts of him visiting Korriban, interrogating captured Jedi, raiding the Temple, visiting various Sith temples and points of interest, and utilizing his galaxy-wide resources to further his studies.

Really, Darthsith, it is a rather stupid assertion that he didn't improve.