Ganner Rhysode vs. Kas'Im

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



General Kenobl
Ganner Rhysode, the Yellowblade, faces off against the Twi'Lek battlemaster Kas'Im. Who wins?

Setting: Jedi Temple

Round 1- Force Battle
Round 2- Lighsaber Combat
Round 3- Overall

Sexyback
1. While we don't see Kas'im do anything with the force, it's clear that his strength is immense given his defence against Bane's energy attack at the end of PoD. Ganner Rhysode never displayed anything too special with the force to my knowledge, Kas'im would be able to defend against anything he could throw at him.

2. Kas'im decimates him. He's far too strong in the force, fast, strong, and his mastery of the saber is the highest in the entire SW saga.

3. Kas'im decimates him.

General Kenobl
Ahem, read this:

The Duel at the Well of the World Brain
from Wookiepedia :



As you can see, Ganner is very impressive with the lightsaber. Thousands of Vong warriors died at his hands. With the Force, he was able to animate and collapse an entire chamber. Definately impressive. I hardly believe Kas'Im "decimates" him.

Darth_Glentract
At that temporary uber-stage that Ganner reached only once he would win. At any other time, he'd lose.

Sexyback
He can't just turn that on and off, that was kinda like a limit break thing for him.

General Kenobl
He was going all out, and because of that, he was able to kill thousands of Vong with lightsaber and Force.

Sexyback
GK, you need to actually read the book and not wookiepedia to understand how he performed the attack. He can't just actively do it.

General Kenobl
He saw his opponent. He realized that he had to use every ounce of energy. He went all out and used all his powers. Even if it that was an exception (which it may not be), the fact is he is very powerful and that Kas'Im cannot decimate him.

Sexyback
Under normal conditions, Kas'im would decimate him. In the unlikely event that Ganer goes through that phase, he wins. There's nothing more to it.

General Kenobl
Tell me, how is it that if Ganner is able to do all those things when he goes all out, how in the world would be get decimated by Kas'Im in normal conditions? And note, this is if what Rhysode did was extreme. If he went all out against Kas'Im, if he was able to kill thousands of Vong, I'm sure he take on a Twi'Lek and defeat him.

Sexyback
GK, this discussion is over. Read Traitor, and then get back to me.

General Kenobl
No, it isn't. Ganner going all out extreme is able to do magnificent feats. If he went all out on Kas'Im (not extreme), then I don't see how he gets decimated. Please, if you cannot admit it, then don't talk.

Sexyback
Originally posted by Sexyback
GK, this discussion is over. Read Traitor, and then get back to me.

General Kenobl
That's cool, I'll wait for someone else who actually has an argument.

Advent
Originally posted by General Kenobl
No, it isn't.

Technically speaking, it isn't (since it's still continuing), but on a level, it should of been. Both Glentract and Sexyback were right. Kas'im would kill Ganner if he weren't to acquire that state with the Force. If he were to become an empowered by the Force to the point he did, he'd win.



Your point? Oops, you don't have one (seeing as this is irrelevant insomuch as he's only able to perform at this level when the Force is with him to the degree that it was at the entrance to the World Brain)!



What do you have to back up that assertion?

I'll break down the situation for you. In a nutshell, when Ganner become "The Ganner", he underwent a phase where he was letting the Force control his actions, at that point:

"He should just order the fool cut down--but Ganner didn't sound weak now or foolish.

The Force does more than give him strength, more than lift him, spin him: the Force surges though his veins to tune his heart to the rhythm of the Universe. He has become the Force, and the Force has become him. He is not directly aware of the sequence of his death; time vanished along with fear, and doubt, and pain in that eternal second when he surrendered his self-command." (Traitor, Chapter 13).

"The Force thunders through him, and he thunders through the Force. Letting slip the bonds of control, leaving aside conscious thought. He has become the battle." (Traitor, Chapter 14).

And there's even more references than just that, but the only reason he had been able to do that was because, as your source says, he "achieved oneness with the Force". It put to ease his aesthetic awareness, basically. Now, on the other hand, from what I'm gathering, your logic is "If he does feats X, Y, and Z while he was empowered by A, he must be good when not empowered by A". For one who claims to take Argumentation theory, you should know that's some faulty logic before even stating it.

Firstly, what do you actually know about Ganner? Everything? Nothing? It's apparent you don't know much, because this is stated in the same, exact book about Rhysode:

"this was Ganner Rhysode, the weakling who could not even mount the causeway. Ganner Rhysode who got no respect from the other Jedi. Ganner the poser, the playactor. The joke." (Traitor, Chapter 13)

In essence, he's not a top notch Jedi until he comes to a realization, and the Force essentially effuses through his entire body, directing and taking over. It's hard to explain in a way that would get to the point cleanly (yes, "cleanly"wink, but it's quite obvious he sucks otherwise. And secondly - to further this point - Ganner himself knows it! Lol!

Ahem, read this:

"Make this weak, pathetic excuse for a Jedi get on with this sacrifice (dialogue)

Everyone has to lie for me, he thought. Everyone has to pretend I'm not as pathetic and useless and weak as I really am...Sick of being a crappy Jedi, a mediocre pilot, and a bloody lousy leader of men. Sick of being a joke. Just sick." (Traitor, Chapter 13).

In normal circumstances and state, Ganner gets mauled. In uber state, he wins. To quote Sexyback, "there's nothing more to it".



Originally posted by Sexyback
Read Traitor, and then get back to me.

xxXAcStylesXxx
owned.

Xero_Ganner
Dark Tide II: Ruin
Chapter 5: Corran Horn: "They're Noghri, Ganner. Besides, I figured to tap you as one of my civilian observers. Figured you had to be equal of another dozen Noghri, right?"

Princess Leia in Balance Point says that Noghri were the most fearful things she'd ever seen next to the Empire(which is now beaten by the Yuuzhan Vong so that makes them the 3rd most fearful).

Ganner was amazingly gifted with TK btw. When he, Jacen and Corran along with some of Garqi's resistance were interfering with a Yuuzhan Vong training session, were planning to ambush them and capture live suspects, Jacen used the force to blow the hatch off the maintenance tunnel. Ganner used the force to blow it off and levitate out of the hole and used the cover to hit one of the Yuuzhan Vong. (That one died because its leg got stuck in the hole and it broke and Ganner proceded to kill it.)

truejedi
What is the book in which Ghanner TK's himself AND Corran Horn across a desert and back? In that one, its made pretty clear that Ghanner is >Horn. He did have a weak moment, one filled with fear, that's made obvious by Traitor. However, Advent, those quotes are referring to those moments of fear, not to his actual strength in the force. If i could remember the title of the book i'm thinking about, i believe pre-NJO, it would lend some credence to Rhysode's Combat ability, which at that time, is considerable.

Xero_Ganner
That's Dark Tide I: Onslaught

Horn and Ganner witness two Yuuzhan Vong killing a slave. Ganner, being one of the more radical Jedi following Durron, was about to rush in when Horn, being very clever, made the smell of the dead slash rats which made him sick.

Corran was more clever than Ganner but he would be no match in a fight.

Vergere even says to Jacen Solo, "He was born to be a legend."

Kas'im was known for being a master with a lightsaber. Ganner was known for his TK.

Kas'im was obviously well with the force for his master to purchase him from slaves. But what I can't get is that his master payed for him instead of slaughtering his captors. Stupid Sith. The only good thing they did was invent Force Lightning.

Kas'im has a resistance to the Force but its like shooting at targets, eventually you'll have to hit it, and eventually a shield will break.
1. Ganner- Master of TK.
2. Kas'im- Master of lightsaber combat.
3. Ganner- I'm pretty sure that the force is more useful than a lightsaber, just stay far enough away from its reach and pull what Darth Vader did in Episode V, use TK to bombard your opponent with anything not nailed down.

truejedi
See, Kas'im falls into that, amazing swordsman, but not powerful force user category to me, like Obi-wan. In fact, that would make a good thread, because could Kas'im's saber mastery overcome Kenobi's Soresu. I thought Ghanner was one of the more powerful jedi, close to durron, before his death. (and thanks for the info on what book that was)

Enyalus
I also thought Ganner was a pretty powerful Jedi...with the Force. With a saber? He doesn't really show it to the end. So my breakdown would be:

1. Sabers, Kas'im - 10/10.
2. Force, Ganner - 8/10.
3. All Out, Kas'im - 6/10. Maybe higher.

Xero_Ganner
Yeah, I went to the library actually to get books with a lot of Jacen in them, but I started reading Dark Tide II: Ruin and I thought that Ganner was pretty interesting so I looked up info on him on Wookiepedia (awesome site which actually got me into EU).

And now that I've read almost every inch of that site I've got to say that Jacen's a puss. He got pushed out of the way by his little bro to lead a suicide mission where he got put 2nd in command and was glad about it. Plus, who wants to be Dark Lord of the Sith anyway, that's just gay. Hey I'm gonna kill Jedi!!! Oh wait Yuuzhan Vong's doing that for me. Then he goes and names his flagship after his little bro that he practically killed by wanting to be 2nd in command.



Wow, I'm nerded out. Star Wars has betrayed me again!!! Oh well I can still pray that lightsabers come into existence before I die. And is it just me or are green lightsabers gay compared to all the other ones?

Xero_Ganner
What!?????

You're saying that lightsabers are better than the Force????

Lightsabers are awesome, and its possible to make one, we just don't know how. But compare that to something that allows you to see the future, lift cars, sense danger, that's nothing.

Vorpal Ruin
Originally posted by Xero_Ganner
That's Dark Tide I: Onslaught

Horn and Ganner witness two Yuuzhan Vong killing a slave. Ganner, being one of the more radical Jedi following Durron, was about to rush in when Horn, being very clever, made the smell of the dead slash rats which made him sick.

Corran was more clever than Ganner but he would be no match in a fight.

Vergere even says to Jacen Solo, "He was born to be a legend."

Kas'im was known for being a master with a lightsaber. Ganner was known for his TK.

Kas'im was obviously well with the force for his master to purchase him from slaves. But what I can't get is that his master payed for him instead of slaughtering his captors. Stupid Sith. The only good thing they did was invent Force Lightning.

Kas'im has a resistance to the Force but its like shooting at targets, eventually you'll have to hit it, and eventually a shield will break.
1. Ganner- Master of TK.
2. Kas'im- Master of lightsaber combat.
3. Ganner- I'm pretty sure that the force is more useful than a lightsaber, just stay far enough away from its reach and pull what Darth Vader did in Episode V, use TK to bombard your opponent with anything not nailed down.

Corran is no match for Ganner? Please, you must be out of your mind. Ganner is stronger in TK, thats it. Everyone is stronger than Corran in TK, that doesnt make him weak, its part of his bloodline. I'm not sure how you can compare Ganner the 'joke' to Corran Horn, the Jedi Master selected to lead the order in Lukes absence. Those two went on a mission together, and Corran was in charge.

truejedi
i already pointed out that ganner "the joke" was based on a single incident.

Xero_Ganner
Corran's an old man!!!!

The only thing that Corran did that was cool was have a silver lightsaber that when you twisted the handle doubled in length and became purple.

Let me restate my comment.

Using the TK bombardment trick that Vader pulled in Episode V, Corran would be no match.


Corran was also in charge on Garqi only because he was chosen by the military chose him to lead the operation because of his past with Rogue Squadron.

I don't see how Ganner is at all a "joke" when "Corran Horn, the Jedi Master selected to lead the order in Lukes absence," chose him to be one of his civilian observers.

Corran was a skilled Jedi because of his dedication and his time as one.
He was skilled with mind tricks and had an almost bullet-time like state he went into in combat at times.

But like I said, the Force is more powerful than a lightsaber.

Vorpal Ruin
What does age have anything to do with this? Yoda.

Yes Corran was appointed head of the Jedi in DN by Cal Omas, but in LOTF Corran is selected by luke to lead the Jedi.

If the force is more powerful than a lightsaber, why didnt Anakin beat Obi-Wan? Why didnt Luke dominate Lomi Plo/Ranyar Thul quickly?

Oh yea, and Ganner was mind tricked my Corrans child son.

EDIT: Oh yea, just so you know, I like Ganner too, im just not delusional.

truejedi
Luke did dominate Raynar Thul, and Lomi Plo. He kept trying to turn Thul away from the dark side while toying with Plo, before he ends up killing her... that fight was the epitome of a curb stomp.

Corran's son did NOT mind-trick Ganner, he mind-tricked the ants in the forest on Yavin, and THEY attacked ganner because they he was food. He though Horn did the trick is all.

Darth_Glentract
Originally posted by Xero_Ganner
Corran's an old man!!!!

Which means he has more experience and training. Age means almost nothing to Jedi.

Originally posted by Xero_Ganner
The only thing that Corran did that was cool was have a silver lightsaber that when you twisted the handle doubled in length and became purple.

So it's a battle of coolness?

And he absorbed all of the energy from a huge explosion and channeled it into the air in the shape of a lightsaber that could be seen from miles and miles away, with only SIX WEEKS of training. He also has extreme affinity for Force Absorption and mind control, as he was able to trick even Luke for a few seconds with only a few weeks of training.

He also defeated Shedao Shai, which I highly doubt Ganner could have done.

Originally posted by Xero_Ganner
Let me restate my comment.

Using the TK bombardment trick that Vader pulled in Episode V, Corran would be no match.

Except Corran would easily absorb all of Ganner's TK energy and redirect it right back at him. Or get his head cut off just trying to use TK on corran.

Originally posted by Xero_Ganner
Corran was also in charge on Garqi only because he was chosen by the military chose him to lead the operation because of his past with Rogue Squadron.

Are you trying to downplay his abilities because he has experience?

Originally posted by Xero_Ganner
I don't see how Ganner is at all a "joke" when "Corran Horn, the Jedi Master selected to lead the order in Lukes absence," chose him to be one of his civilian observers.

People just called him a Jedi because he messed up a lot. He didn't perform as well as a lot of his peers.

Originally posted by Xero_Ganner
Corran was a skilled Jedi because of his dedication and his time as one.
He was skilled with mind tricks and had an almost bullet-time like state he went into in combat at times.

That's part of the reason.

Originally posted by Xero_Ganner
But like I said, the Force is more powerful than a lightsaber.

And Corran is far more powerful with the Force.

EVEN IF he wasn't more powerful with the Force he is better with a saber and...

"Someone well trained in lightsaber combat can defeat an opponent who is stronger in the Force."
―Kas'im's view on lightsaber dueling

I like Ganner alot; that scene in Traitor could be my favorite in the entire series, but he's simply not stronger than Corran or Kas'im, unless in that one time state. He isn't, so it doesn't matter.

truejedi
in that one time stated however, he is considerably more powerful than pretty much any jedi during NJO. He's on par with Luke's greatest accomplishments for the series for those minutes.

Raptor22
some of u keep refering to ganners "power up" as a one time thing. do u have any proof he would not have retained that strength had he survived. the author described him as finally becoming one with the force. i dont know how many times a master told a student that thw force is everywhere and they need to become 1 with it. i took it as him finaly unlocking his true potential but unfortunatly it came just before he had to sacrifice himself.

Red Nemesis
1. logic fail
2. proof:

Jacen got with the Force more during TUF
Jacen knew he would 'never again' reach that level
Jacen did not remain at that level
To recap: it is not our burden to prove that he would lose it because we have never seen someone join and remain one with the Force. Furthermore, we have an example of a similarly powerful meld/ascension by a more powerful person (who would, presumably, be better suited to retaining that level of power) that did not stay active. I'm going to bed but that seems like enough to put 'Ganner retains his powerup' in the realm of speculation.

Tl;dr version: prove he keeps it.

Raptor22
and even if he could only reach that leven when he goes "all out" what is he going to hold back in a duel with kas'im and for some reason not go all out. oh and corran is weak only in tk, but extremly strong in the force and other aspects of it mostly mind powers, and is an very high calibre duelest. i could be wrong but didnt he successfuly use his mind powers on ganner on their mission in dark tide. to sum it up ganner over kas'im and corran over both (not both at once)

Lord Lucien
That was actually painful to read. Seriously, my corneas itch.

Raptor22
to red nemesis on ganner not keeping keeping his one with the forceness. very good point thats proof enough for me.

kotorfan
hey guys, I think the thread starter may have meant for Ganner to be uber one with the force state. Or else, why would he have even paired Ganner with Kas'im?

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.