Thanos vs. Hal Jordan/Kyle Rayner/Kilowog

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



nvrbeenwthagirl
Since he owns Multiple Top tiers, how does he do against These Three?

nvrbeenwthagirl
I guess the silence is indicative that no one wants to say the truth.

darthgoober
Depends, are the GL's going to job the way they do against people like SBP, DS, and Despero?

Desaad
When have GL's jobbed against Despero?

Evangel94
Thanos takes the majority.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Desaad
When have GL's jobbed against Despero?
Whenever they didn't recreate the entire GL Corps with their rings or stop time. See, nvr likes to use THOSE types of feats for GL's when they're going against someone from Marvel, but when they go against someone like SBP or someone like that and don't use them, then it's not jobbing, it's just an indication of how powerful the villain is.

Desaad
Originally posted by darthgoober
Whenever they didn't recreate the entire GL Corps with their rings or stop time. See, nvr likes to use THOSE types of feats for GL's when they're going against someone from Marvel, but when they go against someone like SBP or someone like that and don't use them, then it's not jobbing, it's just an indication of how powerful the villain is.

Ah, understood.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Desaad
Ah, understood.
Yeah, that's what we have to deal with around here. Ain't it great?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Whenever they didn't recreate the entire GL Corps with their rings or stop time. See, nvr likes to use THOSE types of feats for GL's when they're going against someone from Marvel, but when they go against someone like SBP or someone like that and don't use them, then it's not jobbing, it's just an indication of how powerful the villain is.
I believe that SBP is more powerful than Thanos, and thus the Gl's didn't job. THanos is at a major disadvantage against these three becuz he lacks the sheer might of the PC kryptonian Superboy and Speed. He does have better durability. With that said, I can see him taking 3/or 4/10 if he can kill Kilowog first.

Desaad
Kyle Rayner is currently Ion. He makes it a definite win for the Green Lanterns, I think.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I believe that SBP is more powerful than Thanos, and thus the Gl's didn't job. THanos is at a major disadvantage against these three becuz he lacks the sheer might of the PC kryptonian Superboy and Speed. He does have better durability. With that said, I can see him taking 3/or 4/10 if he can kill Kilowog first.
The funny thing is that you refuse to acknowledge the fact that those GL's jobbed, and it's actually covered in the book that they were holding back. laughing out loud

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Desaad
Kyle Rayner is currently Ion. He makes it a definite win for the Green Lanterns, I think.
NOt Kyle the ion, that wouldn't be fair, just kyle the best GL

Desaad
Kyle is the best GL? Really?

I had always heard that Hal Jordan was the best one.

Ah well...in that case, I think it would be pretty close. The GL's would work really well together, so that could be a big advantage.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Desaad
Kyle is the best GL? Really?

I had always heard that Hal Jordan was the best one.

Ah well...in that case, I think it would be pretty close. The GL's would work really well together, so that could be a big advantage.

I think the guardians called kyle the best one.

Kurash
GLs take him down

Soljer
Kyle has the most potential. Hal is the most creative. Which is better is up to opinion.

I personally believe Kyle is stronger. Others disagree. Whatever.

Evangel94
What nvrbeenwthagirl is completely not understanding is that averages of heroes powers is what matters here. You can't take a heroes greatest feats and use it as a standard for their strength. It is the average of the character's entire history of fighting that matters.

UniOmni
Would these three win against Darkseid?

Nope.

Would they win against Despero??

Nope.

Would they win against Thanos?

Nope.

Why?

Standing and all that.
They've beaten better on their own, but the villain type would demand they lose.

Constructs would be broken, as constructs are wont to do.

And Evangel is saying the same thing i've said for a while now.

(Though i'll conveniently forget this law of averages the next time a Surfer/Superman debate comes up.....naturally)

Martian_mind
Thanos dies,as does SPB against non-Jobbing GL

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Evangel94
What nvrbeenwthagirl is completely not understanding is that averages of heroes powers is what matters here. You can't take a heroes greatest feats and use it as a standard for their strength. It is the average of the character's entire history of fighting that matters.

Ands what you fail to realize, is that you can't take the averages of Characters when you have a character like Thanos who has very few appearances. THat just isn't fair. Even mighty ODin Has been portrayed as a chicken a couple times for story effect. Youhave to take hi feats when your comparing someone like thanos against someone who has been seen many many times. THey aren't always going to be portrayed as Gods, or the stories get stale.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Ands what you fail to realize, is that you can't take the averages of Characters when you have a character like Thanos who has very few appearances. THat just isn't fair. Even mighty ODin Has been portrayed as a chicken a couple times for story effect. Youhave to take hi feats when your comparing someone like thanos against someone who has been seen many many times. THey aren't always going to be portrayed as Gods, or the stories get stale.
Since when does Thanos have few appearances? I guarantee he has at least 200. That may not be as much as Supes or Thor, but it's more then enough to establish a gauge on his power.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Since when does Thanos have few appearances? I guarantee he has at least 200. That may not be as much as Supes or Thor, but it's more then enough to establish a gauge on his power.

Thanos is the plot/. where thor and superman are characters that react to the story. Therefor, They will have more average showings to drive the drama and entertainment. Whereas thanos is there simply to drive the story. With that being said, you have to take the highest of feats when pitting thanos against anyone or else your being unfair to the likes of Thor and superman.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Thanos is the plot/. where thor and superman are characters that react to the story. Therefor, They will have more average showings to drive the drama and entertainment. Whereas thanos is there simply to drive the story. With that being said, you have to take the highest of feats when pitting thanos against anyone or else your being unfair to the likes of Thor and superman.
No, you have to take the highest AVERAGE or your being unfair to Thanos, because he's one of the few characters who's power is actually portrayed with a fair amount of consistency. If his power level seemed to fluctuate, then it might be debatable, but it doesn't. Anyone with over 1000 appearances(like Thor or Supes), is bound to have some uber feats to their credit, but you can't really penalize someone like Thanos who only has a couple hundred appearances, when he's consistently been shown to be above those characters. Fighting to the best of their ability doesn't mean that we only look at their high showings. It just means that the characters actually use the abilities they've shown they're capable of. PIS and SMvF are dictated by the AVERAGE(at least to a certain degree).

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
No, you have to take the highest AVERAGE or your being unfair to Thanos, because he's one of the few characters who's power is actually portrayed with a fair amount of consistency. If his power level seemed to fluctuate, then it might be debatable, but it doesn't. Anyone with over 1000 appearances(like Thor or Supes), is bound to have some uber feats to their credit, but you can't really penalize someone like Thanos who only has a couple hundred appearances, when he's consistently been shown to be above those characters. Fighting to the best of their ability doesn't mean that we only look at their high showings. It just means that the characters actually use the abilities they've shown they're capable of. PIS and SMvF are dictated by the AVERAGE(at least to a certain degree).

A character like thanos is a fan fav. And therefor not looked at with scrutiny. He constantly has good showings against Jobbers Like the surfer who forget all of his powers, Odin, who could just have steam rolled right over him, Tyrant, who played with thanos AND thanos had morg's power as well. The battles Thanos has had with top tiers don't impress me. It's not like he's fought Gladiator, a non jobbing Silver Surfer, and BRB. He's fought the like of Professor hulk, who isn't that strong at base, the thing, a version of THor I considered weak and in B and T, Out of his mind, and Herc. Thanos isn't fighting Multiple Hi tiers who have more than strength going for them. So it pisses me off to no avail for people to give so much credit without a scrutinizing eye. but they sure as hell can scruitinize characters they dont' like that much.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
A character like thanos is a fan fav. And therefor not looked at with scrutiny. He constantly has good showings against Jobbers Like the surfer who forget all of his powers, Odin, who could just have steam rolled right over him, Tyrant, who played with thanos AND thanos had morg's power as well. The battles Thanos has had with top tiers don't impress me. It's not like he's fought Gladiator, a non jobbing Silver Surfer, and BRB. He's fought the like of Professor hulk, who isn't that strong at base, the thing, a version of THor I considered weak and in B and T, Out of his mind, and Herc. Thanos isn't fighting Multiple Hi tiers who have more than strength going for them. So it pisses me off to no avail for people to give so much credit without a scrutinizing eye. but they sure as hell can scruitinize characters they dont' like that much.

Odin hardly steamrolled over him. He was unable to put him down for the count even after he pulled out that spear of his(I forget the name). I'll acknowledge that Odin definitely dished out more that Thanos in that fight, but the fact that Thanos took it all says a Hell of a lot for him. And Tyrant is above a skyfather, so Thanos's fight against him was hardly a bad showing.

By the way, Professor Hulk's base is WAY higher than any other version of the Hulk, which is why he's been able to take on the likes of Thor even though his strength doesn't increase as quickly as the other versions.

And which "weak" version of Thor are you talking about?

UniOmni
A Prof. Hulk who shook dimensions in his battle at the crossroads.

A Thor who knocked Thanos off planet with a swing from the hammer.

Yeah, real lightweights.

Its not jobbing unless they win huh?

Thats basically what you're saying.

Surfer has blasted Thanos to no avail.

As an Eternal, transmutation isn't a sure thing, due to the extensive molecular control.

When Darkseid takes the hv blast to the face, and smiles and backhands Superman into unconsciousness, is that Superman jobbing?

Of course, all this happens before 99.

We now know that Superman isn't likely to be one shotted by Darkseid anymore.
Apok Now and S/B has seen to that.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Odin hardly steamrolled over him. He was unable to put him down for the count even after he pulled out that spear of his(I forget the name). I'll acknowledge that Odin definitely dished out more that Thanos in that fight, but the fact that Thanos took it all says a Hell of a lot for him. And Tyrant is above a skyfather, so Thanos's fight against him was hardly a bad showing.

By the way, Professor Hulk's base is WAY higher than any other version of the Hulk, which is why he's been able to take on the likes of Thor even though his strength doesn't increase as quickly as the other versions.

And which "weak" version of Thor are you talking about?

That goofy Thor. I can't remember which one, they all get confused. But what I was saying was, ODIN should have steam rolled over thanos, he didn't, he jobbed. There is no way in hell Odin can be this all powerful Sky father that people make him out to be, and Thanos not been paste. So Either Odin isn't as powerful as people make him, or He Jobbed to thanos. It can't be both. I also said that Tyrant Jobbed to thanos becuz Tyrant is entity lvl in power. He's far superior to Thanos. He even looked like he was just having fun. Hell , he even laughed at the end of the whole thing cuz thanos got the wrong orb. It was a big fat joke to him. But people try and use these "feats" to make thanos out to be more than he is. When he has never handled any for real Top Tiers at the same time. When he can handle Superfast, Super Tough, Flying opponents at the same time, I will concede. I need to see him beat the shit out of Thor, Gladiator, and BRB and then I'll be convinced he's on Despero's lvl.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That goofy Thor. I can't remember which one, they all get confused. But what I was saying was, ODIN should have steam rolled over thanos, he didn't, he jobbed. There is no way in hell Odin can be this all powerful Sky father that people make him out to be, and Thanos not been paste. So Either Odin isn't as powerful as people make him, or He Jobbed to thanos. It can't be both. I also said that Tyrant Jobbed to thanos becuz Tyrant is entity lvl in power. He's far superior to Thanos. He even looked like he was just having fun. Hell , he even laughed at the end of the whole thing cuz thanos got the wrong orb. It was a big fat joke to him. But people try and use these "feats" to make thanos out to be more than he is. When he has never handled any for real Top Tiers at the same time. When he can handle Superfast, Super Tough, Flying opponents at the same time, I will concede. I need to see him beat the shit out of Thor, Gladiator, and BRB and then I'll be convinced he's on Despero's lvl.
UNLESS...Odin and Tyrant NOT steamrolling over Thanos was Marvel's way of showing how powerful Thanos really is. You wouldn't be upset if Odin or Tyrant DIDN'T roll over Darkseid now would you?

And the scan I posted of Thor being knocked around by Thanos was indeed the "Classic" version of Thor.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
UNLESS...Odin and Tyrant NOT steamrolling over Thanos was Marvel's way of showing how powerful Thanos really is. You wouldn't be upset if Odin or Tyrant DIDN'T roll over Darkseid now would you?

And the scan I posted of Thor being knocked around by Thanos was indeed the "Classic" version of Thor.

I believe DS to be close to Tyrant in power or equal. As Yugakhan is as powerful as Galactus and the only being who could kill him was DS.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I believe DS to be close to Tyrant in power or equal. As Yugakhan is as powerful as Galactus and the only being who could kill him was DS.
Wait a second. What has Yuga done to put him at Galactus's level?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Wait a second. What has Yuga done to put him at Galactus's level?

He's an old God. Much more powerful versions of the New Gods. His power was rediculous. And Kirby when he created DS, made him to be BIg G's Equal. Big G has grown in power and Tyrant is now at the lvl that Big G used to be at. WHich means DS is at the same lvl as Tyrant.

UniOmni
Yuga Khan is a Promethian Giant.

The Old Gods, which weren't really delved into in New God lore, are the Asgardians.

Or at least thats what Kirby alluded to.

Khan actually didn't do anything more impressive, other than topple his sons rule.

Galactus certainly has more showings that reinforce his power.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He's an old God. Much more powerful versions of the New Gods. His power was rediculous. And Kirby when he created DS, made him to be BIg G's Equal. Big G has grown in power and Tyrant is now at the lvl that Big G used to be at. WHich means DS is at the same lvl as Tyrant.
No one cares what DS was created to be. The only thing that matters is what he's SHOWN to be. And he hasn't shown to be anything of the sort. By that reasoning, I could say that since Thanos was made to be Marvel's DS and Thanos has been upgraded since then, he is now far more powerful than DS. Do you see where that kind of thinking leads?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by UniOmni
Yuga Khan is a Promethian Giant, lackwit.

The Old Gods, which weren't really delved into in New God lore, are the Asgardians.

Or at least thats what Kirby alluded to.

UM Yuga Khan is DS"s father. So where are you getting your info? Becuz your calling me out of my name and not having your info right.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
No one cares what DS was created to be. The only thing that matters is what he's SHOWN to be. And he hasn't shown to be anything of the sort. By that reasoning, I could say that since Thanos was made to be Marvel's DS and Thanos has been upgraded since then, he is now far more powerful than DS. Do you see where that kind of thinking leads?

Really from where I am, No one cares what DS has shown to be and has done. You guys dont' use any logic in your assesment of him. You don't think to your selves, Damn, he absorbed the power of THOUSANDS of Gods. You don't think to yourselves, His avatars, are only but a fraction of his might. You don't think to yourselves, damn DS stopped ares with The GOD wave, and Takion, arguably more powerful than even Sky gods as he is the source avatar couldn't. All you do is seek to discredit, use a few stupid loeb showings, and uphold who you want to be the top of the character heap. Period.

UniOmni
I edited out the lackwit part, cuz it wasn't necessary.

But Yuga Khan is a Promethian Giant, and i know he's Darkseids father.

No secret there.

Hence the reason why Darkseid is really huge in his true form.

Covered that already.

And the only reason why people are so damn hard on you is because you're totally oblivious to what everybody else sees.

Darkseid isn't at the top of the character heap, due to Superman and others having knocked his craggy ass off multiple times.

Everybody else sees what the law of averages points out, BUT YOU!

Takion is merely the Avatar of the source.

You yourself just pointed out how little power Darkseid puts into the avatars he uses.

Who's to say that Takion and the Source isn't the same thing?

But going by your record, you're gonna ignore that, and this entire post.

What Darkseid did decades ago is nice, but shameful showings put a taint on things.

And guess what?!

Moaning about eyes being blinded, and begging and talking about change is shameful!

Odin has his low showings too, but his highend is so impressive, they balance out.

And the Godwave thing has been taken apart already.

Tech showing is great, but it wasn't completely under his own power.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Really from where I am, No one cares what DS has shown to be and has done. You guys dont' use any logic in your assesment of him.
Wrong, I do use logic in my analysis of EVERY character I'm discussing. Try to find a single instance to prove the contrary.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl You don't think to your selves, Damn, he absorbed the power of THOUSANDS of Gods.
Because those Gods have an unestablished level of power. Besides, power absorption tends to wear off or be used eventually.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl You don't think to yourselves, His avatars, are only but a fraction of his might.
Well let's see... it's never covered WHAT fraction now is it? It could be 2%, or 95%, we don't know. And the majority of the info we have on them came from DS himself when he was talking to someone else.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl You don't think to yourselves, damn DS stopped ares with The GOD wave, and Takion, arguably more powerful than even Sky gods as he is the source avatar couldn't.
He stopped time. He didn't stop the Godwave. There's a difference.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl All you do is seek to discredit, use a few stupid loeb showings, and uphold who you want to be the top of the character heap. Period.
Because by forum rules, we go by the character's latest incarnation. And the way DS is being portrayed now just isn't as powerful as you act like he is. One day someone else may write him into a position of power again, but for now Supes>Darkseid.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by UniOmni
I edited out the lackwit part, cuz it wasn't necessary.

But Yuga Khan is a Promethian Giant, and i know he's Darkseids father.

No secret there.

Hence the reason why Darkseid is really huge in his true form.

Covered that already.

And the only reason why people are so damn hard on you is because you're totally oblivious to what everybody else sees.

Darkseid isn't at the top of the character heap, due to Superman and others having knocked his craggy ass off multiple times.

Everybody else sees what the law of averages points out, BUT YOU!

Takion is merely the Avatar of the source.

You yourself just pointed out how little power Darkseid puts into the avatars he uses.

Who's to say that Takion and the Source isn't the same thing?

But going by your record, you're gonna ignore that, and this entire post.

What Darkseid did decades ago is nice, but shameful showings put a taint on things.

And guess what?!

Moaning about eyes being blinded, and begging and talking about change is shameful!

Odin has his low showings too, but his highend is so impressive, they balance out.

And the Godwave thing has been taken apart already.

Tech showing is great, but it wasn't completely under his own power.

YOu do know that the Loeb showing are retconned. IC has retconned everything. As far as I concerned, I have to use the OLD DS showings becuz those are the consistant ones. Aren't you the one talking about consistancy? It isn't consistant at all the Superman be able to beat DS, when DS has beaten him and the entire league effortlessly so many times. As the record stands, DS still has more wins against Superman than Superman has on him. Takion is not the same thing as the source. Highfather did say that the creation is more powerful than the Creator. Highfather is by definition a SKYFATHER. Takion is more powerful, Making him Entity lvl. But he isn't abstract lvl like the source. The source is already shown to be superior to the spectre.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Wrong, I do use logic in my analysis of EVERY character I'm discussing. Try to find a single instance to prove the contrary.


Because those Gods have an unestablished level of power. Besides, power absorption tends to wear off or be used eventually.


Well let's see... it's never covered WHAT fraction now is it? It could be 2%, or 95%, we don't know. And the majority of the info we have on them came from DS himself when he was talking to someone else.


He stopped time. He didn't stop the Godwave. There's a difference.


Because by forum rules, we go by the character's latest incarnation. And the way DS is being portrayed now just isn't as powerful as you act like he is. One day someone else may write him into a position of power again, but for now Supes>Darkseid.

Supers is also protected by the source. SOURCE>>> DS. not supers.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Supers is also protected by the source. SOURCE>>> DS. not supers.
Well evidently when the threat of being erased is removed, Supes>DS. And way to ignore EVERYTHING else I posted.

UniOmni
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
YOu do know that the Loeb showing are retconned. IC has retconned everything. As far as I concerned, I have to use the OLD DS showings becuz those are the consistant ones. Aren't you the one talking about consistancy? It isn't consistant at all the Superman be able to beat DS, when DS has beaten him and the entire league effortlessly so many times. As the record stands, DS still has more wins against Superman than Superman has on him. Takion is not the same thing as the source. Highfather did say that the creation is more powerful than the Creator. Highfather is by definition a SKYFATHER. Takion is more powerful, Making him Entity lvl. But he isn't abstract lvl like the source. The source is already shown to be superior to the spectre.

And you do it again.

We don't know what exactly IC retconned in regards to the New Gods, so until we do, its safest to say that it ALL stands.

Not only PC stuff, but post crisis as well.

And Superman beating Darkseid isn't the norm, you're right.

But it happened twice, and he whined in both instances. His average plummets.

Takion is potentially more powerful than everybody else, but he hasn't shown it yet.
We can't give him credit for stuff he didn't do.

So until he does something Entity level, lets hold off on that.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Well evidently when the threat of being erased is removed, Supes>DS. And way to ignore EVERYTHING else I posted.

There is no need. The forum has already argued that when someone says something is a fraction, they mean a very small part. When something is higher in portion, the talker usually says something like, half of my power. A fraction means just a small portion. With Gods, it's usually like less than one percercent.

As far as The power lvl of those Gods, It is infered from ODin, who banished surtur, that DS was more powerful than He and highfather together. I dont need to know how powerful all the pantheon's were. I knwo that DS was more powerful than ODin and Highfather. Highfather is a being that DS has destoyed planets when fighting. SO I know DS would have to be extremely powerful. As far as absorbed power goes, There is nothing to suggest that DS would go thru all of that trouble to absorb power that wears off. As far as stopping time, um no. He hardened time AND space and Stopped the wielder of the god wave who was advancing at the time. It would be something like the juggernaut in motion, and quasar has the power to encase the juggernaut in his quantum powers. He has stopped the motion of the juggernaut. a very powerful feat indeed. You can't lesson ds feat by saying he stopped time when that is clearly NOT what the panel said. IT said he was encased in Hardened time and space like a fly in amber. Going by forum rules, you go by the incarnation that someone says as well. I have said in many of my post pre loeb DS or kirby DS. To which the arguments are still the same. Tainted with hateration. i'm done. goodnight.

UniOmni
Its already been made clear, that Darkseid stopped Ares with prep and technology.

A good techie feat, but it wasn't under his own power. Why you keep bringing it up, is beyond me.

And the thing about the absorbing pantheons thing from the Great Darkness Saga........It hasn't happened yet.

That was a Legion of SuperHeroes story arc, and well into the future.

Current Darkseid doesn't have that energy wellspring, cuz it hasn't happened.

I wonder why i didn't blast you for that months ago?

And i love how you pick and choose what DS you want.

Thats not biased and immature at all............

And Kirby DS wore a cape, and only used the OE sparingly. He wasn't the threat you make him out to be.

darthgoober
Originally posted by UniOmni
Its already been made clear, that Darkseid stopped Ares with prep and technology.

A good techie feat, but it wasn't under his own power. Why you keep bringing it up, is beyond me.

And the thing about the absorbing pantheons thing from the Great Darkness Saga........It hasn't happened yet.

That was a Legion of SuperHeroes story arc, and well into the future.

Current Darkseid doesn't have that energy wellspring, cuz it hasn't happened.

I wonder why i didn't blast you for that months ago?

And i love how you pick and choose what DS you want.

Thats not biased and immature at all............

And Kirby DS wore a cape, and only used the OE sparingly. He wasn't the threat you make him out to be.
Wait so your saying that nvr's two big feats(time stopping and the absorbing gods) are actually a load of BS? laughing out loud Now I have to go and reevaluate DS, cause those are the things that actually put him over Thanos in my book.

UniOmni
The stopping Ares with the Godwave thing, was debunked earlier as a tech feat, not primarily a power feat as implied by NvrhdClue.

The Whole GDS, absorbing pantheons, changing suns and moving planets thing happened in a future, iirc.

Hence the Legion of Superheroes being the guys who handled it.

I'm not sure if it even still stand today.

darthgoober
Originally posted by UniOmni
The stopping Ares with the Godwave thing, was debunked earlier as a tech feat, not primarily a power feat as implied by NvrhdClue.

The Whole GDS, absorbing pantheons, changing suns and moving planets thing happened in a future, iirc.

Hence the Legion of Superheroes being the guys who handled it.

I'm not sure if it even still stand today.
Thanks a lot. He's been spewing that BS since....God only knows when. It's good to have someone point all that crap out. smile

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by UniOmni
Its already been made clear, that Darkseid stopped Ares with prep and technology.

A good techie feat, but it wasn't under his own power. Why you keep bringing it up, is beyond me.

And the thing about the absorbing pantheons thing from the Great Darkness Saga........It hasn't happened yet.

That was a Legion of SuperHeroes story arc, and well into the future.

Current Darkseid doesn't have that energy wellspring, cuz it hasn't happened.

I wonder why i didn't blast you for that months ago?

And i love how you pick and choose what DS you want.

Thats not biased and immature at all............

And Kirby DS wore a cape, and only used the OE sparingly. He wasn't the threat you make him out to be.

I'm not talking about the GDS. I'm talking about when Highfather went to Odin and told Odin DS was killing off the pantheon's of the universe. That didn't happen in GDS. anyway, The younger version of DS was still more powerful than the GDS DS.

darthgoober
So nvr, you got any other lies you want to tell about DS's power?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
So nvr, you got any other lies you want to tell about DS's power?

actually i think your just confused. DS absorbed the power of the pantheons in the story arc where highfather went to Odin for help. That wasn't GDS. Also in GDS, The younger DS, was indeed still more powerful than the Ass kicking GDS DS. Thanks. Im not lying. But if it makes you feel better, feel free to say what you want.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
actually i think your just confused. DS absorbed the power of the pantheons in the story arc where highfather went to Odin for help. That wasn't GDS. Also in GDS, The younger DS, was indeed still more powerful than the Ass kicking GDS DS. Thanks. Im not lying. But if it makes you feel better, feel free to say what you want.
And what about stopping the Godwave? You never mentioned he had tech before.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
And what about stopping the Godwave? You never mentioned he had tech before.

People never seem to remember that Thanos' Supposed Durability against Galactus had more to do with his tech either. Sue me.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
People never seem to remember that Thanos' Supposed Durability against Galactus had more to do with his tech either. Sue me.
When people talk about Big G and Thanos, they talk about the strength of Thanos's FORCEFIELD(you know, tech). But at least with Thanos, the forcefield is part of his standard equipment, you've been acting like that was just some crap that DS could do at a moments notice or something like that. That crap ain't happening in a forum fight.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
When people talk about Big G and Thanos, they talk about the strength of Thanos's FORCEFIELD(you know, tech). But at least with Thanos, the forcefield is part of his standard equipment, you've been acting like that was just some crap that DS could do at a moments notice or something like that. That crap ain't happening in a forum fight.

It really doesn't need to. DS has shown he has reality manipulation, something thanos never has shown to have, and all kinds of other time and space wielding powers. The OE effects time and space. He's done to people what thanos needed infinity gems to do.

UniOmni
I may have been mistaken about the stories.

I haven't read either in a long time.

But Thanos still beats the lanterns for the majority.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It really doesn't need to. DS has shown he has reality manipulation, something thanos never has shown to have, and all kinds of other time and space wielding powers. The OE effects time and space. He's done to people what thanos needed infinity gems to do.
So if the OE is capable of doing that without tech, then why did DS need it? Give me an example of him actually doing that on his own.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
So if the OE is capable of doing that without tech, then why did DS need it? Give me an example of him actually doing that on his own.

The OE wipes it's target from Time and Space. he's turned people into kids before. He's teleported people away. all showing his power over time and space. The wielder of the God wave is abstract in power. Of course he can't do that on his own. He could have hurt ares, but not stopped him. He's shown he has the power to hurt abstract lvl beings.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by UniOmni
I may have been mistaken about the stories.

I haven't read either in a long time.

But Thanos still beats the lanterns for the majority.

How? These lanters are rediculous.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
The OE wipes it's target from Time and Space. he's turned people into kids before. He's teleported people away. all showing his power over time and space. The wielder of the God wave is abstract in power. Of course he can't do that on his own. He could have hurt ares, but not stopped him. He's shown he has the power to hurt abstract lvl beings.
So basically your saying that he's NEVER shown the ability to solidify time and space on his own right?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
So basically your saying that he's NEVER shown the ability to solidify time and space on his own right?
He's actually shown more. REality manipulation, Time and Space manipultion as well.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He's actually shown more. REality manipulation, Time and Space manipultion as well.
Has he ever done it? No speculation or BS sidestepping, has he ever shown the ability?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
Has he ever done it? No speculation or BS sidestepping, has he ever shown the ability?
He's turned beings from Old to young, he's Tp people from vast distances away from him, to him , he's tp'd them away from him as well. In GDS, he manipulated reality against the legion.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He's turned beings from Old to young, he's Tp people from vast distances away from him, to him , he's tp'd them away from him as well. In GDS, he manipulated reality against the legion.
HAS HE EVER SOLIDIFIED TIME AND SPACE UNDER HIS OWN POWER? This is not that difficult of a question.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
HAS HE EVER SOLIDIFIED TIME AND SPACE UNDER HIS OWN POWER? This is not that difficult of a question.

Now your just being stupid. If he can manipulate reality, space, and time, of course he can. Your trying to use a specific story element to make a point. and it's a dumb one. I could say, has thanos ever made a force field under his own power, just becuz he used a tech one against Big G. Of course I dont' ever have to see him make one to know that it's in his powerset to make one if he's blocked energy blast with smaller shields.

Soljer
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Now your just being stupid. If he can manipulate reality, space, and time, of course he can. Your trying to use a specific story element to make a point. and it's a dumb one. I could say, has thanos ever made a force field under his own power, just becuz he used a tech one against Big G. Of course I dont' ever have to see him make one to know that it's in his powerset to make one if he's blocked energy blast with smaller shields.

But...Thanos HAS made forcefields under his own power - against Fallen one, Thor, etc.

Has darkseid ever solidified spacetime under his own power?

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Now your just being stupid. If he can manipulate reality, space, and time, of course he can. Your trying to use a specific story element to make a point. and it's a dumb one. I could say, has thanos ever made a force field under his own power, just becuz he used a tech one against Big G. Of course I dont' ever have to see him make one to know that it's in his powerset to make one if he's blocked energy blast with smaller shields.
No I'm pointing out a lie on your part. So I ask again...

HAS HE EVER SOLIDIFIED TIME AND SPACE UNDER HIS OWN POWER?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by darthgoober
No I'm pointing out a lie on your part. So I ask again...

HAS HE EVER SOLIDIFIED TIME AND SPACE UNDER HIS OWN POWER?

He's certainly immobilized beings. I dont' knwo what power he used as there was no specific as to how he did it. So he may have and not explained it. Do characters have to explain how they do everything every single time they do it? Nope. SO you dind't catch me in any lie. He has immobilized beings before. Given that he controls, time, space, and reality, and even can kill souls, I would gather he did it the same way or some similiar method on a smaller scale.

darthgoober
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He's certainly immobilized beings. I dont' knwo what power he used as there was no specific as to how he did it. So he may have and not explained it. Do characters have to explain how they do everything every single time they do it? Nope. SO you dind't catch me in any lie. He has immobilized beings before. Given that he controls, time, space, and reality, and even can kill souls, I would gather he did it the same way or some similiar method on a smaller scale.
You DID lie(at least kind of), because you've been acting like the whole "Godwave" freezing was something that DS did himself. But it turns out that he used tech.

thanospimphand
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
A character like thanos is a fan fav. And therefor not looked at with scrutiny. He constantly has good showings against Jobbers Like the surfer who forget all of his powers, Odin, who could just have steam rolled right over him, Tyrant, who played with thanos AND thanos had morg's power as well. The battles Thanos has had with top tiers don't impress me. It's not like he's fought Gladiator, a non jobbing Silver Surfer, and BRB. He's fought the like of Professor hulk, who isn't that strong at base, the thing, a version of THor I considered weak and in B and T, Out of his mind, and Herc. Thanos isn't fighting Multiple Hi tiers who have more than strength going for them. So it pisses me off to no avail for people to give so much credit without a scrutinizing eye. but they sure as hell can scruitinize characters they dont' like that much.

he didn't have his power he was just using the orb as a weapon

Desaad
Originally posted by Soljer
But...Thanos HAS made forcefields under his own power - against Fallen one, Thor, etc.

Has darkseid ever solidified spacetime under his own power?

I don't think THanos can make forcefields under his own power. I always viewed that as technology.

Remember, its been revealled that he taps energy from his ship, and Odin made mention of him tapping into some dark reserve of outside energy in their battle.

Desaad
Originally posted by UniOmni
The stopping Ares with the Godwave thing, was debunked earlier as a tech feat, not primarily a power feat as implied by NvrhdClue.

The Whole GDS, absorbing pantheons, changing suns and moving planets thing happened in a future, iirc.

Hence the Legion of Superheroes being the guys who handled it.

I'm not sure if it even still stand today.

Darkseid specifically says that his power had "ebbed" in that future, though.

Meaning he was actually LESS powerful in that story than what he used to be (ie, currently).

Great Darkness Saga, that is.

And as previously stated, the Pantheon killing thing was something from Jack Kirby's Fourth World (Later followed up upon in Orion), nothing to do with Great Darkness Saga.

Soljer
Originally posted by Desaad
I don't think THanos can make forcefields under his own power. I always viewed that as technology.

Remember, its been revealled that he taps energy from his ship, and Odin made mention of him tapping into some dark reserve of outside energy in their battle.

Nah, he has himself the capability to make and shape forcefields.

Desaad
Originally posted by Soljer
Nah, he has himself the capability to make and shape forcefields.

Where was this stated?

Soljer
Originally posted by Desaad
Where was this stated?

Stated?

I don't remember where it was stated "Spiderman can shoot webbing," he just does.

It hasn't been STATED - it's just been shown, exemplified, and put on exhibit. Time and time again.

Desaad
I ask, because in past times it was made clear that the forcefields were technological nature. I continued on with that assumption, and its worked quite well since then.

Unless you have specific evidence to the contrary, I can't help but view your point as more speculative than factually based.

Not saying that you aren't right, mind you, I'd just ask for a reference.

MightyEInherjar
Well, I'm pretty sure (100%) Invisible Woman doesn't use tech to make forcefields, I don't think it's much different for Thanos.

Even if his shields ARE tech, he's always had them, and you can't really take them away from him. That's like saying Iron Man can't use his suit because it's tech.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
Well, I'm pretty sure (100%) Invisible Woman doesn't use tech to make forcefields, I don't think it's much different for Thanos.

Even if his shields ARE tech, he's always had them, and you can't really take them away from him. That's like saying Iron Man can't use his suit because it's tech.

THe point is, DS has always had New God Tech, Which is superior to most any tech in comics. So if DS is shown in any battles, Then he should have use of his New God Tech.

MightyEInherjar
Does he always have access to New God tech, or does he always have it equipped? WW always has access to her sword, shield and what not, but it's not part of her regular equipment, so it shouldn't be included with her in a fight, just like other tech that's is accessible but not standard.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
Does he always have access to New God tech, or does he always have it equipped? WW always has access to her sword, shield and what not, but it's not part of her regular equipment, so it shouldn't be included with her in a fight, just like other tech that's is accessible but not standard.

ALL of WW's weapons are always right there with her in her mini disc of Linishar. As for DS. There is no reason to think Odin can defeat DS where the Spectre Fails. THe only time we really see DS held in check is by the Source wall. These "defeats" at the hand of Superman are all mired by the fact that Superman is Protected by the Source and has had help. Superman has gotten his ass kicked so many times by DS it isn't even funny. I'll stand by my statement, Until Odin can hurt the LT, He's not on DS level. Becuz DS hurt the spectre and The AM.

Howard_Jones
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Now your just being stupid. If he can manipulate reality, space, and time, of course he can. Your trying to use a specific story element to make a point. and it's a dumb one. I could say, has thanos ever made a force field under his own power, just becuz he used a tech one against Big G. Of course I dont' ever have to see him make one to know that it's in his powerset to make one if he's blocked energy blast with smaller shields.

It's not an "of course he can" scenario. Gardener had the Time gem, and he never stopped time of his own accord, and couldn't. You don't know if they can or not if they haven't done it before when it comes to that sort of power.

Wally West
Originally posted by Desaad
I ask, because in past times it was made clear that the forcefields were technological nature. I continued on with that assumption, and its worked quite well since then.

Unless you have specific evidence to the contrary, I can't help but view your point as more speculative than factually based.

Not saying that you aren't right, mind you, I'd just ask for a reference.
This doesn't look like a tech forcefield to me, he isn't wearing any armour and his ship was destroyed just moments earlier:

http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fallen44os.jpg

this doesn't look like tech either, although not exactly a forcefield for himself:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Ixion83/CelestialQuest6I.jpg

Desaad
Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
Well, I'm pretty sure (100%) Invisible Woman doesn't use tech to make forcefields, I don't think it's much different for Thanos.

Even if his shields ARE tech, he's always had them, and you can't really take them away from him. That's like saying Iron Man can't use his suit because it's tech.

This, I agree with.

On my part, it was really more a quibble than any point that would change the outcome/circumstance of this fight.

But I'm quite sure that his fields are technology rather than organic.

Desaad
Originally posted by Wally West
This doesn't look like a tech forcefield to me, he isn't wearing any armour and his ship was destroyed just moments earlier:

http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fallen44os.jpg

this doesn't look like tech either, although not exactly a forcefield for himself:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v108/Ixion83/CelestialQuest6I.jpg

Fair enough about the first, but the second wasn't Thanos but a Thanos clone. (assuming it comes from Celestial Quest).

Retconned in Starlin's "Infinity Abyss".

Howard_Jones
Who was saying Thanos couldn't pull up a shield under his own power?

Wally West
Originally posted by Desaad
Fair enough about the first, but the second wasn't Thanos but a Thanos clone. (assuming it comes from Celestial Quest).

Retconned in Starlin's "Infinity Abyss". Yeah but none of the clones have ever shown powers Thanos can't do, and that story was intended originally to be the real Thanos so using his normal powerset. He can manipulate cosmic energy in tons of ways, making a field with it is well within his power.

Desaad
Originally posted by Wally West
Yeah but none of the clones have ever shown powers Thanos can't do,

Now thats totally untrue.

In the very story that introduced the clones, we saw clones that had powers that Thanos did not - telepathic powers, magic powers - and one clone in particular that was many times more powerful than Thanos himself -- Omega.

Clearly, clones could be much more powerful than him if he so desired it.




I have no doubt that Englehart meant it to be the "real" Thanos, but Starlin came in and retconned that. Probably in part because Thanos was doing things that he shouldn't have been capable of (as well as acting totally out of character).

Desaad
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Who was saying Thanos couldn't pull up a shield under his own power?

'Tis me!

Howard_Jones
Originally posted by Desaad
Now thats totally untrue.

In the very story that introduced the clones, we saw clones that had powers that Thanos did not - telepathic powers, magic powers - and one clone in particular that was many times more powerful than Thanos himself -- Omega.

Clearly, clones could be much more powerful than him if he so desired it.


Possibly, but Thanos has used all of that in the past. He had to use magic to reach the In-Betweener. I think I posted that scan in a different thread.

Wally West
Originally posted by Desaad
Now thats totally untrue.

In the very story that introduced the clones, we saw clones that had powers that Thanos did not - telepathic powers, magic powers - and one clone in particular that was many times more powerful than Thanos himself -- Omega.

Clearly, clones could be much more powerful than him if he so desired it.

I have no doubt that Englehart meant it to be the "real" Thanos, but Starlin came in and retconned that. Probably in part because Thanos was doing things that he shouldn't have been capable of (as well as acting totally out of character).
Well obviously the Omega, Amour, Strange etc. clones were meant to have powers of others, I was refering to the regular Thanos clones that weren't merged with another being (and I think Starlin only retconned those apperances because Thanos acted out of character, not for displaying incorrect powers..). The Omega is the only clone I can recall Thanos saying was more powerful than himself. And I don't understand why you think he isn't capable of it, it has been shown he can create fields with his power, he can manipulate cosmic energy in many ways, energy manipulation is his main power.

granzon
How big is Darkseid in his true form and is he more powerful?

Desaad
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Possibly, but Thanos has used all of that in the past. He had to use magic to reach the In-Betweener. I think I posted that scan in a different thread.

I actually just re-read Thanos quest, so I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

Thanos used a magical throne, granted to him by Mistress Death to reach the Inbetweener in a realm of magic. He didnt' do anything magical himself, and only blasted the outside of his prison with his normal energies.

Its been said that he's dabbled in sorcery before, but we've never seen any tangible effects from that, and clearly the Strange clone was far more adept than he himself. So one could argue that the Thanos clone in Infinity Abyss showed the ability to make forcefields because he was far more adept in energy manipulation than normal Thanos was.

Purely speculation on my part, obviously, but either way it doesn't really mean anything. All I know for sure is that that scan cannot be used to prove anything about the normal Thanos, in my mind.

Desaad
Originally posted by Wally West
Well obviously the Omega, Amour, Strange etc. clones were meant to have powers of others, I was refering to the regular Thanos clones that weren't merged with another being (and I think Starlin only retconned those apperances because Thanos acted out of character, not for displaying incorrect powers..). The Omega is the only clone I can recall Thanos saying was more powerful than himself. And I don't understand why you think he isn't capable of it, it has been shown he can create fields with his power, he can manipulate cosmic energy in many ways, energy manipulation is his main power.

I don't believe he can necessarily create forcefields on his own, because historically he's done it with technology from what I can remember. He isn't the Silver Surfer. He has more raw power, but not nearly the versatility.

Howard_Jones
Was the throne magical? He's used that same throne before, and it thought it was his earlier ship, and she just ported it there?

Desaad
Originally posted by granzon
How big is Darkseid in his true form and is he more powerful?

Who knows?

We haven't seen it, ever, save perhaps in Seven Soldiers 1.

Desaad
Originally posted by Howard_Jones
Was the throne magical? He's used that same throne before, and it thought it was his earlier ship, and she just ported it there?

Nah, he was going through the various dimensions via the Throne. And yeah, the Throne was magical, bequeathed by Mistress Death.

After its destruction, he tries to build his own but says its woefully inadequate compared to the one given to him by Death herself.

Wally West
Originally posted by Desaad
I don't believe he can necessarily create forcefields on his own, because historically he's done it with technology from what I can remember. He isn't the Silver Surfer. He has more raw power, but not nearly the versatility. Well if he can't create forcefields what is he doing in that first picture I linked too?

Thanos can teleport/phase and create shields without tech, he just does it better with.

Soljer
Originally posted by Wally West
Well if he can't create forcefields what is he doing in that first picture I linked too?

Thanos can teleport/phase and create shields without tech, he just does it better with.

Cosigned.

Avalonofthewind
Originally posted by Wally West
Well if he can't create forcefields what is he doing in that first picture I linked too?

Thanos can teleport/phase and create shields without tech, he just does it better with.

Those scans did not show forcefields.

I believe this is a gray area for Thanos.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Those scans did not show forcefields.

I believe this is a gray area for Thanos.

I dind't see a force field either.

Wally West
confused

What exactly would you call the thing Fallen One's face has slammed into then?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Wally West
confused

What exactly would you call the thing Fallen One's face has slammed into then?

An energy shield. Not exactly a force field. And if you scruitnize the scan, it actually looks as if thanos is exerting some energy outwards towards the fallen one.

Wally West
So what are you saying? Hes using telekenesis to push Fallen One back?!

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Wally West
So what are you saying? Hes using telekenesis to push Fallen One back?!

That scan for sure isn't shown a force fields. He's using something. And it's ths same something that slammed the fallen one.

Wally West
Well I don't see how it can be interpreted any other way than Fallen One flying face first into some sort of field, but to each their own I guess...

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Wally West
Well I don't see how it can be interpreted any other way than Fallen One flying face first into some sort of field, but to each their own I guess...

How is it a field when thanos' hand is up and pushing him away from him with this energy. When ever thanos uses shields, he just stands there. Like when he fought champion and when he fought galactus. His hands were not stretched out. That was no force field against the fallen one.

Avalonofthewind
They look like the effect of blasts in slow motion.

Soljer
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
How is it a field when thanos' hand is up and pushing him away from him with this energy. When ever thanos uses shields, he just stands there. Like when he fought champion and when he fought galactus. His hands were not stretched out. That was no force field against the fallen one.

Never uses his hands? What about his inertia-sapping forcefield that stopped Mjolnir?

Wally West
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
How is it a field when thanos' hand is up and pushing him away from him with this energy. When ever thanos uses shields, he just stands there. Like when he fought champion and when he fought galactus. His hands were not stretched out. That was no force field against the fallen one.
Because he used tech forcefields against those two, whereas this one he was generating it himself, he was projecting it with his hand. I'm really amazed anyone would try and say otherwise, I mean its right there for all to see...

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Soljer
Never uses his hands? What about his inertia-sapping forcefield that stopped Mjolnir?

That is an inertia sapping forcefield. Just like u said. Show me him using his hands with any kind of fields like the one's he used against champion or Galactus.

Soljer
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That is an inertia sapping forcefield. Just like u said. Show me him using his hands with any kind of fields like the one's he used against champion or Galactus.

Like wally said, he projects his OWN forcefields with his hands, and doesn't traditionally with the techie ones. They are entirely different beasts.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Soljer
Like wally said, he projects his OWN forcefields with his hands, and doesn't traditionally with the techie ones. They are entirely different beasts.

I guess it is no different than me saying DS controls time and space all the time, and uses tech for the bigger threats.

Soljer
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
I guess it is no different than me saying DS controls time and space all the time, and uses tech for the bigger threats.

Exactly like that.

If by controls time and space you mean jobs to Superman and lacks any real showings to put him on the level you wish for him to be on.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Soljer
Exactly like that.

If by controls time and space you mean jobs to Superman and lacks any real showings to put him on the level you wish for him to be on.

Like the many many times DS has beaten Superman's ass, or like in the new series, how DS is making multiple pocket realities, or like how DS has taken the souls of entire planets including his own. and resurrected the dead, and aged peopple to dust. Those lack of showings? Or maybe you just down own any of them. Try the local comic retailer. they can help you out.

Desaad
Originally posted by Wally West
confused

What exactly would you call the thing Fallen One's face has slammed into then?

Thats definitely a forcefield. By pretty much any definition, thats a forcefield.

My only point is that this is more an outlier than it is a common practice. Mostly, its his technology.

Wally West
Originally posted by Desaad
Thats definitely a forcefield. By pretty much any definition, thats a forcefield.

My only point is that this is more an outlier than it is a common practice. Mostly, its his technology. Yeah he definatly seems to use tech more, no surprise really as his tech is so advanced. I don't think he could generate a field under his own power to keep out Galactus for example, he'd need a tech forcefield for that, but a herald I think is well within his capabilities to keep at bay.

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.