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Mace Windu, Yoda, Anakin, Obi-wan, and Qui-gon
(all in RotS stages except for, obviously, Qui-gon)

VERSUS

Darth Sidious, Darth Bane, and Exar Kun
(Sidious is in DE stage; Bane from end of PoD)


This will take place in Palpatine's throne room, on the Death Star.

Round One: Mastery of the Force
Round Two: Lightsaber Prowess
Round Three: Chaos, Murder and Mayhem! Anything Goes!

Sith emerge victorious in all three rounds.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Sith emerge victorious in all three rounds.

I say the Sith win round one. Sidious is the undisputed master of Force attacks, Bane "nudged" a moon and toppled a building with a wave of pure energy, and Exar... Need I elaborate?

I say the Jedi win round two. Their numbers include five of the greatest swordsmen in SW history. The Sith are incredible duelists, but the 5 to 3 odds make things difficult for them. In the end, numbers win this battle.

I say the Sith win round three. In an overall battle, DE Sidious could probably take Mace and Yoda, or at least hold them off until more help arrives. I'd be willing to bargain that Bane and Exar could take on Anakin, Obi-wan, and Qui-gon. I say one dies, but the other attains victory and could then help Sidious crush Mace and Yoda. Another one dies in that battle, but one Sith remains standing, while no Jedi do.

Originally posted by Rampant ox and Blaxican
Sith emerge victorious in all three rounds.

Please elaborate.

Elaborate is a cool word.

1. Sith pwn.
2. Sith firmly win.
3. Sith pwn.

Originally posted by Darth Godzilla
Please elaborate.

Elaborate is a cool word.


Elaboration was never my strong point.

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here. The Jedi, I believe, win round two. Qui-gon Jinn was stated to be a lightsaber prodigy. Obi-wan, by RotS, beat Anakin and Grievous, the latter of which being able to strike sixteen times per second. Anakin beat Dooku, who was one of the greatest duelists of all time. Yoda and Mace are self explanatory.

If Anakin was in the same state of mind as when he fought Dooku then the Jedi might have a chance. Qui-Gon (as awesome as he is) was never really an exceptional duellist. He was better than most but still a firm notch or two behind the Orders best. He got beaten by Maul (a weak fighter in comparison to others) even after he had meditated and become fully revitalised. I also dont think numbers will play a very big part. We have seen Sith fight multiple opponents before and emerge victorious.

Like I said, I was playing devil's advocate. People don't seem to be giving the Jedi much of a chance.

That's because the EU FUs are far more powerful than those in the movies.

The Jedi win in lightsaber combat. Sith win in the Force.

Even in lightsaber combat, the sith are superior.

Darth Bane's easily the strongest here, he's insanely quick, and on par with Kas'im, the guy who mastered all 7 lightsaber forms, and then spent decades perfecting each form, and refining his skills.

Darth Sidious in RotS was basically superior to all of the jedi listed except Yoda, who he was close to, and this was when he was 13 years our of practise, and old. By DE, he's much stronger in the force, his clone body is in peak physical condition, and he's insanely quick.

Exar Kun was slightly better than Ulic Quel-Droma, someone who was able to stalemate Sylvar, an extremely powerful jedi who was tapping into the darkside.

All three are firmly better than Yoda, and leagues above the others.

Sylvar was an "extremely powerful jedi"?

Anyway, i think the jedi win. Why? Let's see:

While yoda and sidious fight, qui-gon and obi-wan naturally join to fight ok, let's say, bane, while windu and anakin fight exar kun. After a while, while sidious is still fighting yoda, bane kills qui-gon and obi-wan. When he does this, windu and anakin kill exar kun (don't come with bullshit, windu+vaapad and anakin+anger can own even sidious). After this windu decides to help yoda who is losing, leting bane fighting anakin. While windu and yoda kill sidious, bane gives a force storm on anakin and let him out of the fight. Then windu and yoda finish him off...

Yes. She was able to defeat three strong Massasi warriors with her bare hands in seconds, she was able to sneak up on Oss Wilum, an exceptional jedi, and knock him to the ground with the hilt of the saber. It's also constantly implied throughout the comics that she's one of the top jedi, and she's pretty badass in action.

The Sith will win in everything but Saber combat. In a saber battle the Sith get owned.

In a Force battle though the Sith win rather handily. In an All out battle I'd say that the Sith still win, but Palpatine might end up killing everyone but himself.

The two lesser Sith engage the Jedi long enough for Palpatine to get decently far away in order to kill everyone (Bane and Kun included) with a Force Storm.

With DE Sidious, the sith stomp a mudhole in the jedi.

Jesus christ Nebaris/Planet, give it up with your bullshit about her, your argument(if you could call it that) was defeated again and again.

No it wasn't, Advent even somewhat conceded (in the Crado thread, she was like 'I'll give you Sylvar, but Crado?'). It's pretty obvious she was somewhat exceptional.

Explain that to me, Planet.

Seriously, sneaking up on a distracted Willum-who was never more than average and nkilling weakling Massassi isn't impressive.

Moreover, Bane is weaker by far than Yoda and Palpatine...without Palpatine, the sith lose HARD, but with him, they win

Originally posted by Gideon
Explain that to me, Planet.

Yes, he is, in lightsaber combat that is. For starters, his speed is insane, here's a description:

'He waited until the last possible second before unleashing the energy bolted up inside of him in a tremendous rush of power. He channelled it through his muscles and limbs, moving so fast it seemed as if time had stopped for the rest of the world. In the blink of an eye he knocked the saber from Sirak's hand, sliced down to shatter his forearm, then spun through and and brought his saber crashing into his opponent's lower leg. It splintered under the impact and Sirak screamed as a shard of gleaming white bone sliced through muscle, sinew and finally skin.'
For an instant none of the spectators was even aware of what had happened; it took their minds a moment to catch up and register the blur of action that had occurred so much quicker than their eyes could see. - PoD, PG 170.

He was also beating Kas'im at the end of PoD, he only lost when Kas'im pulled out an unfamiliar form.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Seriously, sneaking up on a distracted Willum-who was never more than average and nkilling weakling Massassi isn't impressive.

Moreover, Bane is weaker by far than Yoda and Palpatine...without Palpatine, the sith lose HARD, but with him, they win

Oss Wilum was labelled as 'exceptional', and he was hardly distracted.
And killing Massasi warriors (who were strong in the darkside, and who's weaker ancestors were capable of taking out ancient sith) with just your bare hands, in seconds is impressive.

That's cool. But, prove that he is more skilled than his Sith counterparts. Especially Palpatine. Palpatine moved faster than the Leia's eye could see (and her strength in the Force dwarfs any of the Sith present for Bane's fight) - and it was so intense that he generated waves of energy that killed nearby Imperial personnel (and they weren't even in the room with him).

Anyways, given the numbers of the opponents, as well as the skill of Yoda, Mace, and Anakin, I'd say that the Jedi could give the Sith hell in lightsaber combat - but they'd lose.

I think Jedi take Round 2.

Mace focuses on Sids.
The others are 4 on two.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I think Jedi take Round 2.

Mace focuses on Sids.
The others are 4 on two.

You know, you bring up a point. Aside from Luke (depending on which author is writing him) Mace Windu may very well be the most difficult Jedi for a dark side user to take on, given the circumstances of Vaapad.

Bears to think about.

That said, DE Sidious is too overwhelming for even Mace's skills, I think. But I could be wrong. Mace is underrated (and there's no reason that he should be).

She has greater potential, but it is very much untapped. The sith who witnessed it (which included Kas'im) are very much more powerful with the force, Leia's an amateur by DE, she's been a jedi for like 5 minutes.



Source please. Also, Bane taps into much more of his potential after this point until the end of PoD. But if what you said is correct, then sure, I won't deny that Palpatine is faster as he clearly would be.

Lightsnake says the DE Sourcebook.

Originally posted by Gideon
You know, you bring up a point. Aside from Luke (depending on which author is writing him) Mace Windu may very well be the most difficult Jedi for a dark side user to take on, given the circumstances of Vaapad.

Bears to think about.

That said, DE Sidious is too overwhelming for even Mace's skills, I think. But I could be wrong. Mace is underrated (and there's no reason that he should be). DE Palpatine in force power, yes. But in sabers?

I have to say, I see no chance of the Sith winning in saber combat at all.

Obi-Wan is not going down to ANYONE quickly in a pure saber fight, he is just too damn good defensively. Yoda needs no explanation, he's just amazing. Anakin is possibly on par with Mace and in/ VERY close to being in the same league as Yoda in saber combat.

In a pure saber fight, I could see Anakin actually beating both Yoda and or Mace say 4-5 times out of 10. Then you have Mace who's Vaapad is possibly the hardest style for any Darksider to counter, as well as being just pure outright amazing with a lightsaber, PLUS the fact that other then Palpatine, the other two Sith don't even know what Vaapad is. With all this, the Sith have some serious problems on they're hands.

The fact that there are three extremly amazing saber prodigies and the best practitioner of Soresu (possibly ever), but at the very least of his era, and given the fact that the Sith are outnumbered, I don't see any chance of the Sith winning in a pure saber battle.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
DE Palpatine in force power, yes. But in sabers?

RotS Sidious was able to give Mace hell in lightsaber combat. DE Sidious has improved considerably - younger body, he's faster, more refined, ect. Mace has a good chance of beating him, though, due to Vaapad and his Shatterpoint skills.

But it's not a guarenteed victory for Mace.

Originally posted by Sexyback
Oss Wilum was labelled as 'exceptional', and he was hardly distracted.
And killing Massasi warriors (who were strong in the darkside, and who's weaker ancestors were capable of taking out ancient sith) with just your bare hands, in seconds is impressive.
No he wasn't and he was controlling the Hssiss

And you mean they 'backstabbed random Sith' and when were Massassi strong ever?

The only one the Jedi stand even the slightest chance in is lightsaber combat. I still don't think they will win though. Sidious is strong enough to take on Obi-wan, Anakin, and Obi-wan, and win, before Mace is able to take down Bane and Yoda is able to take down Exar. Simply put, Sidious is well beyond anyone here, even in saber combat. Replace him with any other Sith and their chances drop significantly, but as long as he's around they will win.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The only one the Jedi stand even the slightest chance in is lightsaber combat. I still don't think they will win though. Sidious is strong enough to take on Obi-wan, Anakin, and Obi-wan, and win, before Mace is able to take down Bane and Yoda is able to take down Exar. Simply put, Sidious is well beyond anyone here, even in saber combat. Replace him with any other Sith and their chances drop significantly, but as long as he's around they will win.

Have you posted on the Trade Fed cruiser vs. Star Destroyer thread, yet? You're the running scholar of Imperial military might, so maybe you could make a final pronouncement on it.

Originally posted by Gideon
Have you posted on the Trade Fed cruiser vs. Star Destroyer thread, yet? You're the running scholar of Imperial military might, so maybe you could make a final pronouncement on it.

Yeah, I made the 12th post. I think it would take at least 3 Lucrehulks to have a reasonable chance of success of taking down an ISD 1-Class. Against a ISD2-Class it would take at least 4 or 5 for a reasonable chance of victory. Anyway, one-on-one, a Lucrehulk stands absolutely no chance of taking down any model of ISD, save divine intervention.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Yeah, I made the 12th post. I think it would take at least 3 Lucrehulks to have a reasonable chance of success of taking down an ISD 1-Class. Against a ISD2-Class it would take at least 4 or 5 for a reasonable chance of victory. Anyway, one-on-one, a Lucrehulk stands absolutely no chance of taking down any model of ISD, save divine intervention.

What about an Eclipse-Class or Executor-Class?

And what kind of cruiser did General Grievous use as his flagship?

Yes he was, in the Freedon Nadd Uprising.
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=024

And controlling the beasts isn't a continuous thing, when Sylvar snuck up on him and knocked him over, he was simply just watching the events unfold.

And the Massasi were strong.
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=085
http://swtimeline.ru/?comics=7&page=086

An exceptional band....so what?
And attacing a powerless Kun means what?

1. He was exceptional.
2. Read the details, that's why I posted it.

Originally posted by Gideon
What about an Eclipse-Class or Executor-Class?

And what kind of cruiser did General Grievous use as his flagship?

Well, the Eclipse would just waste a huge number of them. It gets kind of hard to say an exact number when it gets this big, but I would imagine it taking 6 or 7 dozen. The Executor would probably take a good 5 dozen at least.

GG's ship was a modified Providence-class vessel.