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Force powers only. THis is on Kashyyyk.

This has been made before, DE Sidious destroys Revan

I think that the previous thread was an all out fight; but I agree. Sidious will soundly defeat Revan.

I doubt the fight would actually get to saber anyway, so same result; Sidious comfortably wins, but doesn't pwn.

Probably Sidious but it would be close. I mean, Revan is ahead of Sidious in the other thread and that's an all-out fight and Revan'll likely do better in a Force-Only fight since the Force is his strong point, not his saber skills.

Originally posted by darthsith19
Probably Sidious but it would be close. I mean, Revan is ahead of Sidious in the other thread and that's an all-out fight and Revan'll likely do better in a Force-Only fight since the Force is his strong point, not his saber skills.

And how many of those many people have submitted valid arguments as to why they voted for Revan as opposed to the blind fanboys who voted without reading or submitting anything?

There's nothing to indicate that this would be a close fight. Sidious's raw power exceeds Revan's own, as does his knowledge.

If this was ROTS Sidious, then there would be a good debate. But DE Sidious is above and beyond every other sith.

Sidious just plain rapes Revan.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Sidious just plain rapes Revan.
Now don't be ridiculous.

Sidious's Force Storm will kill him as well, if he unleashes it in the fight. Because if his Storm can tear the fabrics of space itself, then no flesh can survive it.

It will be a good fight but Revan alone will be defeated.

Palpatine doesn't require the Force Storm

Spear of midnight black is good enough or the force drain

Originally posted by Kadesh
Spear of midnight black is good enough or the force drain
Malak also knew Force Drain and that too did not stopped Revan.

Something else would be tried.

It will take multiple Force attacks to bring down Revan and not just one.

Though I believe that DE Sidious will be victorious.

Um no, palpatine would slaughter him with deadly sight or his lightning alone

And many of palpatines techniques are insta kills, spear of midknight for example or mechu-deru

Originally posted by Kadesh
Um no, palpatine would slaughter him with deadly sight or his lightning alone
Deadly Sight is not as effective as it sounds. It works in specific situations and it does not kills an individual instantly.

And Lightning cannot bring Revan down. Sorry!

Originally posted by Kadesh
And many of palpatines techniques are insta kills, spear of midknight for example or mechu-deru
Spear of Mid Knight would be interesting thing.

But Like I said before, Revan is not an instakill for DE Sidious. It will be a good fight and it will take multiple strikes to bring down Revan.

We are talking about one of the most powerful Jedi here and not an weakling.

One of the most powerful Jedi versus THEE most powerful Sith. And why again would lightnign be ineffective against Revan? A space time ripping vortex would be more then sufficient.

Darth Revan is on par with ROTS Sidious. DE Sidious is better than this ROTS self. Ergo, he wins.

Malak isn't half as powerful as Palpatine. Palpatine is going to butcher Revan

its DE Sidious not ROTS Sidious, who would have an all out battle with Revan. DE Sidious would own anybody.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Malak isn't half as powerful as Palpatine. Palpatine is going to butcher Revan Lol not even being 50% hm? That proves 80% > 50% and vader > malak weather SF powered or not

Sidious utterly curbstomps Revan's ass. His sheer raw power is much greater then Revans own and his Force knowledge is possibly the greatest in the SW universe. There's pretty much nothing that Revan could do that Sidious wouldn't already know everything about.

What is mechu-Deru exactly? Or morichro for that matter?

I think the mechu-duro thingymabob in is the dark side technique that allows one great skill in building things. I know that sounds strange, but I think that's right.

Morichiro? No clue, but I've seen it mentioned before.

I actually think Palpatine's pretty overrated on here, what exactly speaks for his raw power being that much above Revan's?

Revan was able to wipe out an entire army of Rakatan warriors and Rancor beasts with force lightning alone, in one usage. This was also before the end of KotOR, where he apparently becomes much more powerful.

And judging by how Bane viewed Revan, and his holocron, I think it's pretty safe to say that his knowledge base was pretty exponential too.

Honestly, I'd say Sidious wins, but he hardly curbstomps.

I dunno, his Force Storm? His force lightning prowess?

Oh, and Revan wiped out a scouting party. Thanks!

1. Force Storm is ritualistic. It doesn't speak for his raw power, and it can't be utilised in this scenario. Point moot.

2. What's so great about his lightning?

3. And no, Revan wiped out all of The One's scouting parties.

Sidious can mortally wound people with single blasts of energy (doubt if it's Force lightning - 'cuz it looks different). But, yeah, he's probably got the most potent Force lightning this side of Luke's green version. He can decimate a hundred stormtroopers with a single blast (augmented stormtroopers at that), he can turn three powerful dark side prophets who were capable of "resurrecting" Darth Maul into smoldering skeletons with a single blast (and they were powerful Force uers).

Sidious can move at outrageous speeds - he owned Luke in single combat despite Luke being very powerful in his own right (creating immense illusions, repelling fire from an AT-AT, toppling said AT-AT with only the Force). He knows an extreme amount of Jedi techniques, such as Malacia (induces nausea to one's opponent and disorients them). He's the undisputed grandmaster of Sith arts. He's the most powerful Sith Lord in history - according to the sourcebook, tNEC, and the spirits of the Ancient Sith Lords. He used the Force to bury a Super Star Destroyer under Coruscant and then mindwiped the population so they forgot what they saw. During his fight with Luke, he killed nearby Imperial personnel due to the sheer immensity of the power output that they were giving off. Lastly, it took the combined Force connection of three Skywalkers to stop him and his Force Storm.

So.. :erm: how does he not curbstomp?

Edit: The Force Storm is about as ritualistic as Bane's blast on the Temple, Sexyback. All he needs is a few seconds to summon some rage, and then he unleashes it.

Pfft sidious lightning > revans lightning

This pic clearly shows that

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5089/sidiouspwnsqq5xd7.jpg

And that was just over a drink, lol.

Anyways, LS is right, Palpatine's flunky - Sedriss - was able to call down lightning from the sky to devastating effect.

What was palpatine going to drink? Whisky?, i did see a picture that when he dropped his mug and the bottle he got angry and killed the storm troopers or was he going to drink Blue milk?

Originally posted by Gideon
And that was just over a drink, lol.

Anyways, LS is right, Palpatine's flunky - Sedriss - was able to call down lightning from the sky to devastating effect.

What comic book is that picture in? And in what book does he bury the star destroyer.

He buried the Lusankya prior to the X-wing series....Escape has the complete quote.

And he annihilates the stormies in Empire volume 1

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I dunno, his Force Storm? His force lightning prowess?

Oh, and Revan wiped out a scouting party. Thanks!
I checked it again and Revan wiped out Scouting Parties and not just a single scouting party. He made a huge kill with his Lightning attack.

He then again destroyed the entire Black Rakatan Race as a Jedi.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
What comic book is that picture in? And in what book does he bury the star destroyer.

It wasn't in a book. You see, Ysanne Isard - the head of Imperial Intelligence - operated from a Super Star Destroyer buried beneath Coruscant. It was a gift from the Emperor. Well, there has always been speculation how the Empire got the damn thing down there, and the New Essential Guide to Charactes confirms in Isard's biography that Palpatine did it himself. He used the Force to bury the Lusankya (the name of the ship) - which, by the way, is the sister ship to the Executor - and then he mindwiped the planet's population to forget what they saw.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Pfft sidious lightning > revans lightning
Wrong! I have checked in KOTOR game once again and Revan destroyed "all the scouting parties" through his Force attack.

This makes Revan's Lightining more powerful.

Originally posted by Gideon
It wasn't in a book. You see, Ysanne Isard - the head of Imperial Intelligence - operated from a Super Star Destroyer buried beneath Coruscant. It was a gift from the Emperor. Well, there has always been speculation how the Empire got the damn thing down there, and the New Essential Guide to Charactes confirms in Isard's biography that Palpatine did it himself. He used the Force to bury the Lusankya (the name of the ship) - which, by the way, is the sister ship to the Executor - and then he mindwiped the planet's population to forget what they saw.

That's funny, I can't find that anywhere in my copy...

Originally posted by Sexyback
That's funny, I can't find that anywhere in my copy...

It's under Isard's biography, I assure you. Should say something like "he used the mind fogging powers of the Force to command the population to forget what they saw."

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Wrong! I have checked in KOTOR game once again and Revan destroyed "all the scouting parties" through his Force attack.

This makes Revan's Lightining more powerful.

WRONG!

(lol, had to do that, you're so funny when you try to prove people wrong)

1. Prove that Revan did this with a single attack.

2. Even if he did, lol, it's very elementary - he continued to use the attack 'til they were all did. Which is what Palpatine would have done had more Stormtroopers been present.

3. Prove that "scouting parties" of technologically inferior species are more numerous than a brigade of enhanced Stormtroopers.

Originally posted by Gideon
WRONG!

(lol, had to do that, you're so funny when you try to prove people wrong)

1. Prove that Revan did this with a single attack.

2. Even if he did, lol, it's very elementary - he continued to use the attack 'til they were all did. Which is what Palpatine would have done had more Stormtroopers been present.

3. Prove that "scouting parties" of technologically inferior species are more numerous than a brigade of enhanced Stormtroopers.
No you are wrong too!

It is well established that both Revan and Sidious were master practioners of Force Lightning. So it is useless to argue upon this.

1. The One's scouting parties were destroyed in a very short time. It was not a long or hard battle as you try to portray.

2. His attack was of a large scale like that of Sidious. And Lightning can kill non-Jedi very quickly. Only Jedi and Sith can resist it for long time.

3. Technology is irrelevant. Sidious killed large number of troops (100 total) with his Lightning. And Revan also killed large number of Rakatans (several scouting parties) with his Lightning attack.

So it is useless to argue upon this as both Sidious and Revan are powerful enough to counter Lightning attacks. It does not matters.

My point stands that Revan will go down after a good fight. It will not be WTFPawn situation as some Sidious Fanboy's try to say.

I don't get it, how do you brainwash the entire planet of Coruscant, and how do you put a super star destroyer BENEATH coruscant?

It said he destroyed a socuting PARTY singular.

this WILL be quickly...Palpaine's lightning has wiped out a battalion of elite stormies when he was hardly involved

Nope, every scouting party.

Quote please?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Quote please?
This information has been gathered from various comments from black Rakatans.

Quote 1: "You have used strange magics and weapons to slaughter our raiding parties".

Quote 2: "The One came here with an army to see this temple and seize it for our cause, but we were met with strange and powerful magics which have defeated us at every turn".

The term magics is used for referring to "Force" by The One. Revan had slaughtered their army near Rakatan Temple through Force.

And there are some more associated comments but I don't remember. One such comment is that Revan attacked from Sky and slaughtered all the scouts or something like that.

This was a short battle and some sources indicated that it was major Lightning attack.

Once again....I'm not seeing any indication this's any great than Sedriss or that Revan did this single handedly, especially considering Malak was there. And btw, a Rakatan raiding party as seen in game, isn't that large.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Once again....I'm not seeing any indication this's any great than Sedriss or that Revan did this single handedly, especially considering Malak was there. And btw, a Rakatan raiding party as seen in game, isn't that large.
Fights in games are not good ways to judge the canonical aspects of the story.

Second quote clearly suggests that an entire army of rakatan warriors was slayed by Revan. Force Lightning is the most preferred attack by a powerful Sith Lord to kill large number of individuals.

And we know that powerful Lightning can spread and kill many individuals instantly.

Lol, that's cute.



And yet you were the one who brought it up.



Prove it.



And Sidious rendered three prophets of the dark side (powerful Force users) charred skeletons in a single blast.



Again, prove it was a similar situation. Prove he did it with a single blast, and prove that he killed as many as Sidious did.



Yup. It does.



Two words: Prove. It.

Originally posted by Gideon
Prove it.
Why don't you prove to me that it was a long and hard battle?

Because I haven't seen any such indication.

Originally posted by Gideon
And Sidious rendered three prophets of the dark side (powerful Force users) charred skeletons in a single blast.
So did I say anything wrong about Sidious?

Originally posted by Gideon
Again, prove it was a similar situation. Prove he did it with a single blast, and prove that he killed as many as Sidious did.
Check the Quote 2 in above Post. And Force Lightning (Storm) is the best Force power to kill large number of individuals. It takes a short time but not long. Revan was a master practioner of Lightning and he could generate such massive amount of Lightning.

Also, Revan resorted to use of Force against Rakatans because he wanted a short fight. See! Logic applies here.
Originally posted by Gideon
Yup. It does.
I said the both were master practioners of Lightning. Stop arguing like a Child? Oooh! Look Sidious dad can produce more Lightning!

Originally posted by Gideon
Two words: Prove. It.
One of the most powerful Jedi of all times. Logic applies here and not Fanboyism.

I never said, lol, that it was a "long and hard battle". I asked you to prove that he did it "with a single blast" and prove that it was "quick". You made the assertion that it was both - it is up to you to provide proof.



You said Revan's lightning > Sidious's. I can provide the quote if you like, lmao. You've made an assertion. You need to back it up, now, or consent defeat and move on.



Again, he said he was met with "powerful magics". Prove that it was a single blast.



A shorter fight than engaging them all in single combat, yes. But prove it was over in a few seconds - like Sidious when he decimated those stormtroopers.



Lmao. "Quit arguing like a child"! Do you say this when you're beaten all the time? Please. You brought it up. You made your bed, now you can lay in it. You said that Revan's lightning was stronger. You made the assertion. You can either back it up or say "I was wrong, I don't have proof" and we can move on.



I'm sorry, didn't you make the assertion that Revan's lightning was stronger? That is fanboyism.

As much as I like Revan

Sidious's lightning > Revan's

Originally posted by Gideon
I never said, lol, that it was a "long and hard battle". I asked you to prove that he did it "with a single blast" and prove that it was "quick". You made the assertion that it was both - it is up to you to provide proof.It is obvious that he defeated them in short time or else it would have been indicated by a source that it was a tough fight.

Originally posted by Gideon
You said Revan's lightning > Sidious's. I can provide the quote if you like, lmao. You've made an assertion. You need to back it up, now, or consent defeat and move on.
I made an error at that point and rectified it on my next post. Try to focus on addressed points next time.

Originally posted by Gideon
Again, he said he was met with "powerful magics". Prove that it was a single blast.
Powerful magics refers to use of Force. Tell me one powerful Sith Lord who knows Force Lightning and does not uses it in attacks? Revan was a powerful DLOTS by that time and he also preferred to use Force Lightning in combat like Malak. Logic applies here.

Originally posted by Gideon
A shorter fight than engaging them all in single combat, yes. But prove it was over in a few seconds - like Sidious when he decimated those stormtroopers.
Did I said that it was over in few seconds? Don't put words in my mouth. I said that it was short fight and Revan handled it easily through Force.

Originally posted by Gideon
Lmao. "Quit arguing like a child"! Do you say this when you're beaten all the time? Please. You brought it up. You made your bed, now you can lay in it. You said that Revan's lightning was stronger. You made the assertion. You can either back it up or say "I was wrong, I don't have proof" and we can move on.
LOL! I do not claim to be a very good debator but I certainly use some Logic and Reasoning in my points. I remember that in my very first debate, you were among the first to run-off after a short contest of knowledge and only Lightsnake put up a good debate/contest. So stop telling me that who is superior or who is not.

I have made an error before while not noticing it and I have addressed this issue afterwards. Both of them are master practitioners of Lightning and it ends all things.

Originally posted by Gideon
I'm sorry, didn't you make the assertion that Revan's lightning was stronger? That is fanboyism.
Same point above that have been already addressed.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
As much as I like Revan

Sidious's lightning > Revan's
Both of them were master practitioners of Lightning. Their is no hard and fast way to say that Sidious was better in it.

Vader, Maul.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Vader, Maul.
Vader was a cyborg and cyborg do not use this power.

Maul is not on par with Revan. Revan was a master practitioner of Lightning and so was Malak. Maul does not knows Force Lightning.

Thats besides the point, you said "Name me one Sith Lord who doesn't use Lightning" I did.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Thats besides the point, you said "Name me one Sith Lord who doesn't use Lightning" I did.
I have already edited my post to make it more clear now.

Tell me one powerful Sith Lord who knows Force Lightning and does not uses it in attacks?

Kaan, Naga Sadow, Freedon Naad, Exar Kun, Kas'im, Kopezc, Ludo Kresh, Sion. I'm just really being a dick right now

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Tell me one powerful Sith Lord who knows Force Lightning and does not uses it in attacks?

Kaan, Naga Sadow, Freedon Naad, Exar Kun, Kas'im, Kopezc, Ludo Kresh, Sion. I'm just really being a dick right now
It depends that in what type of challenge they are in to.

Most Sith Lords who know Force Lightning, do use it in combat. Even Sidious used it many times.

Revan and Malak also used it many times.

Sion is not known to know Force Lightning. I may be wrong but he does not demonstrates this ability.

Kas'im was more of a duelist type guy.

Exar Kun did used it on some occassions.

Can't say about preferences of Ancient Sith Lords. They did not even wielded Light Sabers, except for may be Tulak.

I thought Revan's "Force storm" WAS a single blast.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I thought Revan's "Force storm" WAS a single blast.

Well, I don't know about you, but I don't recall ever wiping out an "army" of anything in game with a single blast of lightning. Sidious wiped out those augmented and defected stormtroopers with a single blast. For all we know, Revan blasted them once, repowered, blasted them again, and repeated 'til they were all dead.

Originally posted by Gideon
Well, I don't know about you, but I don't recall ever wiping out an "army" of anything in game with a single blast of lightning. Sidious wiped out those augmented and defected stormtroopers with a single blast. For all we know, Revan blasted them once, repowered, blasted them again, and repeated 'til they were all dead.
Game Mechanics? Not good!

If Sidious would be in an KOTOR game, his powers would also work in the same way.

Don't assume. Do me a favor and calculate "a short time". And, remember, I never said that it took him long. I said "did he do it with one blast?" You have yet to prove it.



You rectified it by saying "oh, let's just not argue this anymore!". You were wrong; you were proven incorrect. Your assertion fell through. Period. We won't need to argue it anymore, because Sidious's lightning is more potent than Revan's.



"Logic applies here!" Lmao. Says the guy who keeps saying "no, you are wrong!" like Sexyback used to - and, is in return, being proven wrong himself. Do us all a favor and don't lecture anyone about logic. By the way, your entire point makes no sense. I know he was referring to the Force. Prove that Revan did the damn feat with a single blast.



The word "dumbass" springs to mind, now. I never said that you said "it was over in a few seconds". You claimed that Revan's lightning was stronger than Sidious's (like a fanboy). Sidious wiped out "an army" in seconds. If Revan were stronger, he would likely have done it quicker. So, prove it.



Lmao. Right when you stop saying "Wrong!" or making stupid ass assertions.



No. Sidious is more powerful, and has shown to be a much stronger practitioner of lightning. They are both "masters", sure, but Sidious is much moreso.



Again, then you were wrong and you need to stop trying to defend a savagely beaten point.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Game Mechanics? Not good!

If Sidious would be in an KOTOR game, his powers would also work in the same way.

Yeah... you're pretty much not getting the point... Prove that it was just game mechanics. Prove he wiped them out in a single blast.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Both of them were master practitioners of Lightning. Their is no hard and fast way to say that Sidious was better in it.

Yes there is, i have proof,

Swlegend you are severely overrating Revan to actually claim sidious lightning isnt better than his


http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4639/sidiouspwnsqq5nn2.jpg


And sidious can do better than this,

Who knows? the rakatas words could be hyperbole, They have never seen the force before, they could exaggerate. People would do if they seen the loch ness monster

Yup.

Like I said, Sidious reduced three Prophets of the Dark Side (who were powerful enough to resurrect Darth Maul (or an illusion of Darth Maul, we don't know) to charred skeletons in a single blast. Revan hasn't performed anything like it.

Revan killing a scouting party isnt impressive, Vader on the other hand killed an entire army of wookies with his lightsaber and i mean he really decapitated each and every one of them

Originally posted by Gideon
Don't assume. Do me a favor and calculate "a short time". And, remember, I never said that it took him long. I said "did he do it with one blast?" You have yet to prove it.
A couple of minutes. Thats it.

Originally posted by Gideon
You rectified it by saying "oh, let's just not argue this anymore!". You were wrong; you were proven incorrect. Your assertion fell through. Period. We won't need to argue it anymore, because Sidious's lightning is more potent than Revan's.
I made a mistake, accepted it and then moved on. But still you keep on pushing it, which is more like bad debating approach.

And you can't prove that Sidious's Lightning is more potent then that of Revan. Both were master practitoners of Lightning. I can say that Bane's Lightning is even better.

Originally posted by Gideon
"Logic applies here!" Lmao. Says the guy who keeps saying "no, you are wrong!" like Sexyback used to - and, is in return, being proven wrong himself. Do us all a favor and don't lecture anyone about logic. By the way, your entire point makes no sense. I know he was referring to the Force. Prove that Revan did the damn feat with a single blast.
You don't use Logics in debates or do you?

Revan would have used a single Lightning attack to wipe them all out which would have taken a couple of minutes. This is my observation regarding that event.

Originally posted by Gideon
The word "dumbass" springs to mind, now. I never said that you said "it was over in a few seconds". You claimed that Revan's lightning was stronger than Sidious's (like a fanboy). Sidious wiped out "an army" in seconds. If Revan were stronger, he would likely have done it quicker. So, prove it.
I have already accepted my mistake. Now you keep on pushing it like a dumbass then it is your problem and not mine. So move on!

That was not an entire army. Those were 100 troopers.

Revan actually wiped out an entire Rakatan Army in a few minutes.

Originally posted by Gideon
Lmao. Right when you stop saying "Wrong!" or making stupid ass assertions.
People learn from debates or don't they?

Originally posted by Gideon
No. Sidious is more powerful, and has shown to be a much stronger practitioner of lightning. They are both "masters", sure, but Sidious is much moreso.
Sidious is only better in Lightning in your opinion. I am not convinced by that single cartoonish image.

Revan's Lightning would have looked like that as well.

Originally posted by Gideon
Again, then you were wrong and you need to stop trying to defend a savagely beaten point.
I have not been savagely beaten. You have not changed my opinion, so you keep your so called victory in your head.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Revan killing a scouting party isnt impressive, Vader on the other hand killed an entire army of wookies with his lightsaber and i mean he really decapitated each and every one of them
Revan destroyed the entire Black Rakatan Race afterwards in his second visit. It isn't a big deal.

And Revan destroyed an entire army of Rakatans and not just a scouting party. I have mentioned a quote of that.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It depends that in what type of challenge they are in to.

Most Sith Lords who know Force Lightning, do use it in combat. Even Sidious used it many times.

Revan and Malak also used it many times.

Sion is not known to know Force Lightning. I may be wrong but he does not demonstrates this ability.


Exar Kun did used it on some occassions.

Can't say about preferences of Ancient Sith Lords. They did not even wielded Light Sabers, except for may be Tulak. Thats all fine and good, but the fact remains that you said, even after editing the post, name one powerful Sith lords who doesn't use lightning. That was the only (technically the second) rule you gave, and he in turn answered you with about 8 Sith Lords.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Kas'I'm was more of a duelist type guy. Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Dooku also "more of a duelist" type guy?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Thats all fine and good, but the fact remains that you said, even after editing the post, name one powerful Sith lords who doesn't use lightning. That was the only (technically the second) rule you gave, and he in turn answered you with about 8 Sith Lords.
Their are many characters in Star Wars. I can't keep the record of all of them in my head. But most Sith Lords who knew Force Lightning, used it in combat.

Originally posted by Gideon
Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Dooku also "more of a duelist" type guy?
Dooku perferred to use both Force and Saber skills in combat.

He used Force Lightning in AOTC.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Revan destroyed an entire army of Rakatans and not just a scouting party. I have mentioned a quote of that.

Again how do you know if "teh" one was telling the truth? People tend to exaggerate when they see something they never seen before, and why would they want to send an entire army to 2 people they dont even know are jedi or what they could do?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Their are many characters in Star Wars. I can't keep the record of all of them in my head. But most Sith Lords who knew Force Lightning, used it in combat. Not really, Sidious used it twice when he got disarmed, dooku did it before a duel not during one



Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

He used Force Lightning in AOTC.

And he couldnt do so in ROTS if lightning was used so often in battle, since vader doesnt have them wouldnt he do crush? And by the way crush can kill you in a matter of seconds, vader took down a tank the size of an AT-AT with that with ease

Originally posted by Kadesh
Again how do you know if "teh" one was telling the truth? People tend to exaggerate when they see something they never seen before, and why would they want to send an entire army to 2 people they dont even know are jedi or what they could do?
The One had plans to take over the entire Rakatan Temple. He brought many warriors with him for that attack. But sadly for him, Revan had reached the place and decimated many of his warriors.

Then he proceeded towards The One and ripped basic in to his mind through telekinesis to learn the secrets of entering the Temple, but The One had no such knowledge.

So he left The One to his fate and sought help from The Elders.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The One had plans to take over the entire Rakatan Temple. He brought many warriors with him for that attack. But sadly for him, Revan had reached the place and decimated many of his warriors.

Then he proceeded towards The One and ripped basic in to his mind through telekinesis to learn the secrets of entering the Temple, but The One had no such knowledge.

So he left The One to his fate and sought help from The Elders. This still cannot prove your point, Killing many warriors doesnt mean killing an army, Again we saw how big the groups of rakatas are in lehon in each temple there were 2 right?

Not that many warriors, not even enough to fill up a big platoon

w/e i gtg now so ill talk about this later ok?

Originally posted by Kadesh
Not really, Sidious used it twice when he got disarmed, dooku did it before a duel not during one
It does not matters that how many times they use it, but they do use it in combat when necessary. Sidious used it as well so my point is true.

In-fact Sidous used it in several of his fights.

Originally posted by Kadesh
And he couldnt do so in ROTS if lightning was used so often in battle, since vader doesnt have them wouldnt he do crush? And by the way crush can kill you in a matter of seconds, vader took down a tank the size of an AT-AT with that with ease
It depends upon what kind of fighting a Sith is engaged it. He could use Force Lightning even in ROTS but Dooku made a different choice.

Crush is irrelevant here. Powerful Force Users do have impressive defensive abilities and Revan had some too.

Originally posted by Kadesh
This still cannot prove your point, Killing many warriors doesnt mean killing an army, Again we saw how big the groups of rakatas are in lehon in each temple there were 2 right?

Not that many warriors, not even enough to fill up a big platoon

w/e i gtg now so ill talk about this later ok?
Note this quote: "The One came here with an army to see this temple and seize it for our cause, but we were met with strange and powerful magics which have defeated us at every turn".

Revan decimated the entire Rakatan army near the Rakatan Temple. Because he would not allow Black Rakatans to gain entry in to the temple.

And as i said, the "army" isnt as big as you think, The entire housing for those rakata werent big, and there were like what 20 of them at most?
And i actuallydoubt that One fool would send the entire camp and get wiped out.


Who knows? Every turn, do you know what does that mean? Means revan didnt kill them with one move, he could have killed them one by one, or he used several powers

Originally posted by Kadesh
And as i said, the "army" isnt as big as you think, The entire housing for those rakata werent big, and there were like what 20 of them at most?
And i actuallydoubt that One fool would send the entire camp and get wiped out.
I have mentioned the reason that what The One had planned to do. And thats why he brought so many warriors in that place.

And after that defeat, he went back to his base and stayed their for 3 years and until Revan returned and asked Revan to full-fill his previous promise to destroy Elders.

In the game, we don't see exact numbers of Black Rakatans. Canonicaly Black Rakatans numbered 1000 in that base. But their numbers fell due to obvious reasons.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Who knows? Every turn, do you know what does that mean? Means revan didnt kill them with one move, he could have killed them one by one, or he used several powers
No! Revan used Force to kill them. Most fitting thing is a massive Lightning based attack. "Every turn" refers to that no matter what Rakatans tried, they were getting slaughtered by Revan's Force attack at every move.

I'm not trying to be mean here, but I find you very annoying a lot of the time S_W_LeGenD. Your arguments (not all, but some of the time) are vague and unsupported, and most are filled with hyperbole in them due to your favoring a specific person (usually Revan) and its just irritating to read, I find myself skipping over your posts a lot of the time because they can become so irritating. However, you seem like an intelligent person, I just wonder sometimes whats going through your head...Why do you do it? Its not to be annoying on purpose I hope..

Assuming that your deduction is accurate, that would still make his feat much less impressive than the Emperor's. If you are even implying that the two are somehow equal in that sort've thing, you're wrong.



Good. You've admitted that you've made a stupid assertion. Great job.



Wrong!

I can.

You've failed to provide accounts of Revan's lightning being equal or above Sidious's own. You have failed to bring evidence to your conclusions that both of them "are masters". And even if they both are, it is irrelevent. Yoda was a master; Obi-Wan was as well. Yet Yoda would thoroughly curbstomp Obi-Wan in anything related to the Force. You have a similar situation here; color it anyway you want, but Sidious is much more powerful than Revan, and based on onpanel evidence, he is the more potent caster of Force lightning.

Wanna disagree? That's fine. Just offer proof.



Sure. When he kills a hundred soldiers in a single blast, kills Jedi with single blasts, or reduces three powerful prophets to charred bones with a single blast, you can make such an assertion. In the meantime, do us both a favor and don't.



Well... it would seem that most of the people here seem to agree with me and not you. You tell me.



Your observation isn't canon.



Lmao. Then do as the Anomaly suggested and quit being so irritating. You assume to be right; your points have been rendered moot or irrelevent. You win when you outlogic me; you haven't. You've lost.



Quantify how many people are in an army. I'm not aware of a set number for an army. I've always considered an army to be a reasonably large amount of individuals. 100 meets that requirement. It can be considered an army.



a.) You "assert" that. But we all know how much your assertions are worth, don't we?

b.) Quantify how many people were there.



You don't learn much.



Wrong!

Sidious is better due to on panel evidence supporting as such. And, really, you call me the fanboy.



This is me not really caring. Denying facts doesn't make them any less of a fact.



I think I'm going to take out my "idiot shrine" to Planet, since he and I are getting along, and replace it with you. You're not a canon source. You do not tell me "what" it would have looked like. Period.



The traditional excuse of the savagely beaten.



Aww... that's cute. See, guys? He thinks his opinion matters. He thinks that was what I was trying to do: change his mind.

No. It wasn't.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In the game, we don't see exact numbers of Black Rakatans. Canonicaly Black Rakatans numbered 1000 in that base. But their numbers fell due to obvious reasons.
Can you provide this canon source that states 1000 troops?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No! Revan used Force to kill them. Most fitting thing is a massive Lightning based attack. "Every turn" refers to that no matter what Rakatans tried, they were getting slaughtered by Revan's Force attack at every move. Wrong. "At every turn" generally means, that even where they went, and everything they did, was met with Revan's wrath. They quote uses plurals...a few times, which means it wasn't one attacks. "Magics" in no way can be construed as ONE Force or ONE force power. Magics, in the plural sense, means more than 1. Whether it's the same attack multiple times, or multiple attacks one time each, there was more than one. Sorry.

If Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord EVER, then it would stand to reason, that his darkside abilities would surpass others, hence making him the most powerful ever.

LOL!!!

I haven't been on these forums for a while, and the arguments are getting ridiculous.

When has Revan shown ANYTHING even CLOSE to the power of Sidious?

Really, if Revan could tear down fleets like Sidious does, i would seriously wonder why he didn't attempt it when the Republic's Fleet were against him.

Next i'll hate to bring up an old topic, but i can think of atleast an entire race of Sith Lords being superior to Revan: The Ancient Sith.

He learnt FRACTIONS of their power, unless you want to illogically speculate that all the knowledge the Ancients had were never looted, were never lost or destroyed.

Oh i'm sorry, but when has killing a scouting party become the equivalent of frying Jedi, destroying Star Destroyers and fleets?

The onus is on you to prove that Revan's ability to fry non force users is even comparable to Sidious's destructive power.

Originally posted by Deception
LOL!!!

I haven't been on these forums for a while, and the arguments are getting ridiculous.

When has Revan shown ANYTHING even CLOSE to the power of Sidious?

Really, if Revan could tear down fleets like Sidious does, i would seriously wonder why he didn't attempt it when the Republic's Fleet were against him.

Next i'll hate to bring up an old topic, but i can think of atleast an entire race of Sith Lords being superior to Revan: The Ancient Sith.

He learnt FRACTIONS of their power, unless you want to illogically speculate that all the knowledge the Ancients had were never looted, were never lost or destroyed.

Oh i'm sorry, but when has killing a scouting party become the equivalent of frying Jedi, destroying Star Destroyers and fleets?

The onus is on you to prove that Revan's ability to fry non force users is even comparable to Sidious's destructive power.

It the new Bane book, its spurred a resurgence of Revan fanboyism not seen since the days of KOTOR's release.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Can you provide this canon source that states 1000 troops?
The Lore Master in the Black Rakatan base says this. He is the most knowledgeable Black Rakatan.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Wrong. "At every turn" generally means, that even where they went, and everything they did, was met with Revan's wrath. They quote uses plurals...a few times, which means it wasn't one attacks. "Magics" in no way can be construed as ONE Force or ONE force power. Magics, in the plural sense, means more than 1. Whether it's the same attack multiple times, or multiple attacks one time each, there was more than one. Sorry.
We can't say properly that what form of attack was it but can Rakatans really tell you that which type of attack was it? Here is a hint:

Force Lightning has a advanced Form called Chain Lightning. Chain Lightning hits one target and the moves towards next and then next and then next. This can explain the theory of "every turn" or something. It seems that it was a powerful blast of Lightning as it killed many.

Now if you think that this is not the case, then it is unknown. Still what Revan did was imperssive. Killing an entire army through Force is impressive.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
If Sidious was the most powerful Sith Lord EVER, then it would stand to reason, that his darkside abilities would surpass others, hence making him the most powerful ever.
Did I said that Sidious would loose? Don't you people have eyes or something?

Revan is also among the most powerful Jedi of all times. Possibly in TOP 5 and this means something. He will not be defeated so easily.

Your so called mighty Sidious could not destroy DE Luke in combat. And DE Luke got his @ss whooped by a 4000 year old spirit of Exar Kun. See the difference?

Originally posted by Deception
LOL!!!

I haven't been on these forums for a while, and the arguments are getting ridiculous.

When has Revan shown ANYTHING even CLOSE to the power of Sidious?

Really, if Revan could tear down fleets like Sidious does, i would seriously wonder why he didn't attempt it when the Republic's Fleet were against him.

Next i'll hate to bring up an old topic, but i can think of atleast an entire race of Sith Lords being superior to Revan: The Ancient Sith.

He learnt FRACTIONS of their power, unless you want to illogically speculate that all the knowledge the Ancients had were never looted, were never lost or destroyed.

Oh i'm sorry, but when has killing a scouting party become the equivalent of frying Jedi, destroying Star Destroyers and fleets?

The onus is on you to prove that Revan's ability to fry non force users is even comparable to Sidious's destructive power.
Here is a List:

- Destroyed the entire Rakatan Army on Lehon through Force. And not just a scouting party.

- Wiped out the entire Rakatan Race in his second venture against them.

- Destroyed an entire Army of Sith on Star Forge and never even sweat. And then also easily took down Malak in combat.

- According to POD: his knowledge surpassed the entirety of Sith Archives in Korriban planet. His teachings made Bane more powerful then before.

- Was referred to as a "Prodigous knight" By a Jedi Master.

- Killed two Terentatek beasts easily in Tomb of Naga Sadow and did not even sweat.

- Killed several impressive and powerful individuals easily.

- He is considered to be one of the most powerful Jedi ever.

- Executed "Mandalore - The Ultimate" like he was nothing (even after being heavily trained and leader of millions of Mandalorian warriors)

- Killed Yusanis in the single spot. Yusanis was a master swordman as well and had excellent precognition capabilities. He was the best Echani Warrior ever known and Revan slaughtered him very easily.

- Kriea herself says that "Revan was power. Staring in to his eyes was like staring in to the heart of the Force".

And Kriea has not seen ancients in combat. She was possibly refering to Tulak's skills but Revan got hold of Tulak's secrets and studied them. kriea admits that Tulak's secrets were gone.

All of this is impressive. And if not then it is up to you.

And Sidious teared down a fleet through his Force Storm that he himself cannot control. That Force Storm will kill him too if he unleashes it in single combat.

yea i do see a difference, ones a tangible being, and one is an ancient spirit...good comparison though...

ill address the rest of that shit tomorrow...

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
yea i do see a difference, ones a tangible being, and one is an ancient spirit...good comparison though...

ill address the rest of that shit tomorrow...
That ancient spirit possessed body of Kyp and then attacked. Luke himself admits that Kyp was fighting very differently (after being possessed).

And that spirit wreaked havok on him. If that spirit would not have been stopped by Luke's students, then it would be end of Luke. Now imagine that how powerful real Exar Kun was.

exar kun is nothing, he hasnt demonstrated anything spetacular other than freezing what 100 000 non force users and "teh" amulet blasts

And luke fell because kun used the entire dark side of yavin to back him up, According to lightsnake

Originally posted by Kadesh And luke fell because kun used the entire dark side of yavin to back him up, According to lightsnake
A 400 year old ancient spirit could do that. So it is impressive.

He put Luke down no matter what arguement is raized. Real Exar Kun would be more dangerous.

Fights are not as black and white as some people try to make them sound. Each individual has his ups and downs.

DE Luke also had disadvantages. No one is prefect.

Um you do know that he possessed kyp and combined powers? That overwhelms luke and + with the golden globe, the entire dark side of yavin isnt it obvious he would beat luke?

Originally posted by Kadesh
Um you do know that he possessed kyp and combined powers? That overwhelms luke and + with the golden globe, the entire dark side of yavin isnt it obvious he would beat luke?
It was Kun that acted through Kyp's body in his own ways. This is why Luke admits that Kyp was acting very differently.

And Kun managed to do what DE Sidious could not.

Despite all his power, DE Sidious failed to accomplish that. I did not see DE Sidious curbstomping him, despite being assumed as a mighty Force God or something.

It is because that DE Luke was also powerful and so is Revan. Curbstomping a very powerful individual is not as easy as it seems to some people here.

Originally posted by Gideon
Assuming that your deduction is accurate, that would still make his feat much less impressive than the Emperor's. If you are even implying that the two are somehow equal in that sort've thing, you're wrong.
Does it really matters?

He faced an entire army while Sidious faced 100 troopers. Their is a difference here.

Revan can also counter Lightning attacks so their is no point in discussing this.

Originally posted by Gideon
Good. You've admitted that you've made a stupid assertion. Great job.
I have got the balls to admit my mistakes. This does not damages my image because I am not perfect. Call it stupid assertion or whatever, but you surely don't know how to remain CIVIL.

Originally posted by Gideon
I can.

You've failed to provide accounts of Revan's lightning being equal or above Sidious's own. You have failed to bring evidence to your conclusions that both of them "are masters". And even if they both are, it is irrelevent. Yoda was a master; Obi-Wan was as well. Yet Yoda would thoroughly curbstomp Obi-Wan in anything related to the Force. You have a similar situation here; color it anyway you want, but Sidious is much more powerful than Revan, and based on onpanel evidence, he is the more potent caster of Force lightning.
Lightning is something that if mastered to its highest form would be deadly and will spread and kill large number of individuals. Revan, Malak, Bane and Sidious were all master practitioners of Lightning, so it does not makes them superior to each other in this regard.

The point is that will Lightning harm Revan? Answer is No because he can counter it.

So move on! Sidious Lover.

Originally posted by Gideon
Well... it would seem that most of the people here seem to agree with me and not you. You tell me.
Do I care? No!

Originally posted by Gideon
Your observation isn't canon.
Still Revan slaughtered the entire army through Force. So it was impressive.

Originally posted by Gideon
Lmao. Then do as the Anomaly suggested and quit being so irritating. You assume to be right; your points have been rendered moot or irrelevent. You win when you outlogic me; you haven't. You've lost.
Does not matters actually. This really is not something to worry about as I don't take fiction very seriously.

Originally posted by Gideon
Quantify how many people are in an army. I'm not aware of a set number for an army. I've always considered an army to be a reasonably large amount of individuals. 100 meets that requirement. It can be considered an army.
Both Revan and Sidous killed large number of individuals so does it matters? 100 Troops does not sounds like an army to me. It is more like a division or something.

Originally posted by Gideon
You don't learn much.
Do you know me by nature? No! so stop making stupid judgements.

Originally posted by Gideon
Sidious is better due to on panel evidence supporting as such. And, really, you call me the fanboy.
Did I said that Revan is more powerful then Sidious? I pity your stupid mentality.

Originally posted by Gideon
This is me not really caring. Denying facts doesn't make them any less of a fact.
I have not denied any single fact. Try again!

Originally posted by Gideon
I think I'm going to take out my "idiot shrine" to Planet, since he and I are getting along, and replace it with you. You're not a canon source. You do not tell me "what" it would have looked like. Period.
I don't care. I follow canon aspects of things as well and put them just like that.

This is why I state that Sidious is more powerful then Revan. So stop Bull-shitting around.

Originally posted by Gideon
The traditional excuse of the savagely beaten.
And what harm did I endured. Just a debate and thats it.

Wow! you made a better arguement in one debate and you assume that I am messed up! idiot.

Stop being a child, Escape!

Originally posted by Gideon
Aww... that's cute. See, guys? He thinks his opinion matters. He thinks that was what I was trying to do: change his mind.

No. It wasn't.
Others don't really care as well so move along.

Yes, it does matter. The sooner you accept that Sidious's lightning is more powerful, we can move along. Because you saying "no, they're both master practitioners!" means jack. Sidious is the stronger Force user and his lightning is more potent.



Lmao. Let's leave your balls out of this, kay? Small subject.

Anyways, I'll be "civil" when you understand that you're wrong. On panel evidence backs me up. Not you.



:erm:

Yes, it does. Tell me, where the hell do you get these assertions? Do you just come up with randomly stupid stuff and try to pass it off as fact? I suppose since Yoda is a "master practitioner" of the Force, that it is useless to say anyone is more powerful than him? No. Because making one a "master" doesn't make one equal to every other master.

Sidious has the stronger lightning.



There ought to be a klaxon for stupid assertions. You have many.



Please. I could call you a Revan fanboy because you try to fellate him, fail, and then argue "oh, they're equal" because you're wrong, you know you're wrong, and you've got nothing else left to argue. Sidious's lightning is stronger.



Lol, you overvalue your opinion. Not everything is about you caring.

It means that most of the people here seem to think that I'm using logic and you aren't. Sorry.



You can't define the circumstances. Really takes the shazam! out of the damn feat. And, I never said it wasn't impressive. But Sidious's use of lightning is much moreso.



You're a walking contradiction, y'know.



How many makes up an army is open to interpretation. Bottom line: Sidious's feats > Revan's feats. This would include lightning.



:erm:

If anyone's making "stupid" anything, it would be you.



Did I say that you said otherwise? Jeez. Anyways, let's use logic here. If Sidious is more powerful... then his lightning would logically be stronger as well, right?

Guess that thought never occured to you?



Actually, yeah, you have. It's pretty much the reason we're debating this. You're denying that Sidious's lightning is more powerful. Why? Well, one can only guess.



If you followed canon, then you'd understand that Sidious's lightning would be stronger than Revan's.



Bingo.



Well, really, it's not much of a debate. It's me telling you that you're wrong and I'm right - and I'm proving it.



So you're calling me an idiot, despite me using logic better than you, and proving you wrong to the point where it's getting a bit redundant? Riiight...



Don't you always start out your arguments with something like "NO! You are wrong! Waa!"

I believe you did that to me earlier, lol, but we know how that went.

Please. You quit acting like a dumb child, and I'll stop acting like a mean one.



Lol. You can read minds, now? o0

Originally posted by Gideon
Yes, it does matter. The sooner you accept that Sidious's lightning is more powerful, we can move along. Because you saying "no, they're both master practitioners!" means jack. Sidious is the stronger Force user and his lightning is more potent.
Prove to me that how being more powerful makes you better with Lightning as well.

Bane also executed a huge form of Force Lightning. Does this means that he is stronger then Sidious?

Term "mastery" is not defined by just power of a Jedi or Sith. A powerful Jedi can be better in one ability then others but he/she could be lesser in other ability then others.

Originally posted by Gideon
Lmao. Let's leave your balls out of this, kay? Small subject.

Anyways, I'll be "civil" when you understand that you're wrong. On panel evidence backs me up. Not you.
I can insult you as well. So keep this in mind. And it is better to stay Civil in these kinds of debates.

Originally posted by Gideon
:erm:

Yes, it does. Tell me, where the hell do you get these assertions? Do you just come up with randomly stupid stuff and try to pass it off as fact? I suppose since Yoda is a "master practitioner" of the Force, that it is useless to say anyone is more powerful than him? No. Because making one a "master" doesn't make one equal to every other master.

Sidious has the stronger lightning.
Once again this is not a fixed thing. Some Sith Lords have demonstrated more mastery then Sidious in certain abilities.

Example: Nihilus demonstrated more mastery in Drain then Sidious. Does this means that Nihilus is more powerful then Sidious?

So keep your stupid logics with you.

Originally posted by Gideon
There ought to be a klaxon for stupid assertions. You have many. Your case is not any better as well.

You keep on saying that if a Jedi is more powerful then the other jedi, then this means that he/she is better in everything then the less powerful Jedi. This is utterly rubbish and false.

Originally posted by Gideon
Please. I could call you a Revan fanboy because you try to fellate him, fail, and then argue "oh, they're equal" because you're wrong, you know you're wrong, and you've got nothing else left to argue. Sidious's lightning is stronger.
I defend him to a certain extend and I try not to over-hype his abilities. But you are doing that in case of Sidious.

Originally posted by Gideon
Lol, you overvalue your opinion. Not everything is about you caring.

It means that most of the people here seem to think that I'm using logic and you aren't. Sorry.
You also over-value your opinions. It is not that you always speak the Truth so keep your lectures with you.

Originally posted by Gideon
You can't define the circumstances. Really takes the shazam! out of the damn feat. And, I never said it wasn't impressive. But Sidious's use of lightning is much moreso.
That's your opinion. We don't have a picture of Revan's Lightning but we do know that he was a master practitioner of Lightning as well.

Originally posted by Gideon
You're a walking contradiction, y'know.
No! I don't really take these debates very seriously. It is not very important for me. I just participate and thats it.

Originally posted by Gideon
How many makes up an army is open to interpretation. Bottom line: Sidious's feats > Revan's feats. This would include lightning.
This is not the case. Both have done some impressive things in their lives. Sidious was over-all more impressive.

Originally posted by Gideon
:erm:

If anyone's making "stupid" anything, it would be you.
You too have made a stupid assertion now in your above lines.

Originally posted by Gideon
Did I say that you said otherwise? Jeez. Anyways, let's use logic here. If Sidious is more powerful... then his lightning would logically be stronger as well, right?

Guess that thought never occured to you?
This is the most stupid assertion. It is not true that Sidious will be above all Sith Lords in each and every ability. I have quoted an example above.

Example: Bastilla was a master in Meditation Abilities. Now Sidious also knew Meditation and even Revan as well. Does this means that Bastilla is over-all more powerful then Sidious and Revan?

No! Mastery in an ability is not just limited to the over-all power of a Jedi. So my point stands.

Originally posted by Gideon
Actually, yeah, you have. It's pretty much the reason we're debating this. You're denying that Sidious's lightning is more powerful. Why? Well, one can only guess.
Their is not fact behind this so I have do not accept this.

In KOTOR games, you can master Lightning to its highest forms.

Originally posted by Gideon
If you followed canon, then you'd understand that Sidious's lightning would be stronger than Revan's.
Logical Fallasy here. No proper evidence available.

Originally posted by Gideon
Well, really, it's not much of a debate. It's me telling you that you're wrong and I'm right - and I'm proving it.
No! you have put up a wrong assertion and I have proved it to be wrong in one of my above statements.

Originally posted by Gideon
So you're calling me an idiot, despite me using logic better than you, and proving you wrong to the point where it's getting a bit redundant? Riiight...
Your logics are as flawed as mine.

Originally posted by Gideon
Don't you always start out your arguments with something like "NO! You are wrong! Waa!"

I believe you did that to me earlier, lol, but we know how that went.

Please. You quit acting like a dumb child, and I'll stop acting like a mean one.
I will be more careful but I have the right to state my opinions. If you disagree then try to convince me or let go the debate.

Originally posted by Gideon
Lol. You can read minds, now? o0
Another stupid assertion from you.

Are you saying revans lightning > sidious? Firstly S_w_legend as much as i like you, please dont make ridiculous claims, How would you even know that revan used lightning to whoop the rakatas ass? He could have used his lightsaber(rakatas dont know what it is and they can call it "magic" he could have used lightning and he could have used other powers.

Nothing at all indicates he killed the scouting part instantly

Wow. You're pulling stuff out of your ass, now. When did I say that? Oh, wait. I thought I was proving my point by offering evidence of Sidious's lightning being stronger, which you - of course - try to argue against.



Has Bane's lightning wiped out a small army? Has Bane's lightning mortally wounded Jedi with single blasts? Has Bane's lightning reduced three very powerful Prophets to charred remains in a single blast?

No.

Bane's lightning isn't more powerful than Sidious's.



Lol, you've really got no point here, do ya?



Lmao, you already have insulted me. So, really, don't lecture on being civil. Like I said: a walking contradiction.



Prove it.



Please.

Nihilus's hunger surpassed Sidious; not his drain. Sidious also drained planets. The only difference is, he did so for experimental purposes and for maintaining his health due to the toll the dark side was taking on him. Nihilus WTFdrained things because he had a never ending appetite.





If my logic is stupid, what does that make yours? Uberstupid?



Do you practice this in a mirror or something, lol? Just because your logic is failing, doesn't mean that mine is.



When have I said that?



Oh, I see. So, by offering accounts of Sidious's superiority, I am overhyping his abilities. But when you defend him without proof or conclusive evidence and say that his power is equal to or greater than Sidious's own (when it comes to lightning), you are "defending him to a certain extent".



Wrong!

I am speaking the truth. Otherwise, you'd have refuted it by now.



Yeah, you totally ignored the example of Yoda up there, didn't ya? Some "masters" are better than other "masters". Kind've like Sidious and Revan. Revan may be a master lightning practitioner, lol, but Sidious is the stronger one.



Translation: I am indeed a walking contradiction!



Disagree? Oh, well, then prove it.



Like I said. Just because you've lost doesn't mean that my assertions (which are backed by canon) are wrong or stupid as well. Sorry.



Yeah, and your example got curbstomped.



No, lol, because there's no proof that Bastilla's meditation surpassed Sidious's. Sidious may very well be the most potent user of battle meditation ever, either. What he did to the Imperial Starfleet (if you've ever read the RotJ novelization) is hand-in-hand with mind control. He completely dominated them in every way, and even Thrawn makes it clear.

And he maintained control of the fleet even during his confrontation with Luke and Vader.

So, yeah. Pretty much thinking Sidious > Bastilla there, too.



Your point kind've reminds me of Darth Maul. Bisected and at the bottom of Theed's melting pit.



I hear the dumbass klaxon ringing. Sidious is the more potent caster of Force lightning.



Bingo! You don't have proper evidence to support your point, so you try (and fail) to question mine.



Oh, the workings of a deluded mind.



No. Your logics are more flawed than Planet's one-time belief that Freedon Nadd was the Chosen One. Seriously, I'd probably believe that over any garbage you spill out.



You should be the one considering letting go of the debate. Y'know, with the sheer absence of an argument on your part.



In a way, you're entertaining. I said "assertion", and wham! You try to cram it in every other line. Then you whine about "being civil!". Yeah. It's cute.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Are you saying revans lightning > sidious? Firstly S_w_legend as much as i like you, please dont make ridiculous claims, How would you even know that revan used lightning to whoop the rakatas ass? He could have used his lightsaber(rakatas dont know what it is and they can call it "magic" he could have used lightning and he could have used other powers.

Nothing at all indicates he killed the scouting part instantly
I have not said that Revan's Lightning is greater then that of Sidious's Lightning. I said that both ware master practitioner's of Lightning. Thats it.

Gideon is having difficulty in understang this simple point.

Don't lie. You did say that, but according to you, you "rectified" it.



Lmao. No, you're having difficulty understanding that Sidious's lightning is more potent than Revan's.

Originally posted by Gideon
Wow. You're pulling stuff out of your ass, now. When did I say that? Oh, wait. I thought I was proving my point by offering evidence of Sidious's lightning being stronger, which you - of course - try to argue against.
What does this comment means then: Anyways, let's use logic here. If Sidious is more powerful... then his lightning would logically be stronger as well, right?

You are obviously blind to your own statements.

That Lightning Feat (in image) could be performed by any master Lightning practitioner. It requires great affinity in Force and Revan and Bane were both sufficiently strong in the Force to perform that Feat.

Originally posted by Gideon
Has Bane's lightning wiped out a small army? Has Bane's lightning mortally wounded Jedi with single blasts? Has Bane's lightning reduced three very powerful Prophets to charred remains in a single blast?

No.

Bane's lightning isn't more powerful than Sidious's.
What would have happened if Bane's Lightning would have hit them? Obviously those soldiers would be dead.

Logic really lacks in your statements and you try to twist your comments to change the dynamics of debates and this is your weakness.

Originally posted by Gideon
Lol, you've really got no point here, do ya?
I have posted a simple logical statement that you can't understand.

Originally posted by Gideon
Prove it.
Sure!

- Bastilla's meditation ability was better then that of Sidious. She could destroy the moral of an entire fleet of an enemy and make them weak. And at the same time make the other fleet fully perfect in terms of every move.

- Nihilus's Drain is more devastating then that of Sidious. He drained entire worlds in an instant. His Drain consumed Force itself.

- Freedon Nadd could hit a Jedi from Light Years away. Something Sidious has not done.

Originally posted by Gideon
Please.

Nihilus's hunger surpassed Sidious; not his drain. Sidious also drained planets. The only difference is, he did so for experimental purposes and for maintaining his health due to the toll the dark side was taking on him. Nihilus WTFdrained things because he had a never ending appetite.
His hunger fueled his Draining abilities. His Drain not just drained people but also consumed the Force itself.

Originally posted by Gideon


If my logic is stupid, what does that make yours? Uberstupid?
Your logic is biased towards Sidious.

Originally posted by Gideon
Do you practice this in a mirror or something, lol? Just because your logic is failing, doesn't mean that mine is.
Your biasedness towards Sidious is what has made you blind in this debate.

Originally posted by Gideon
When have I said that?
Comment Reposted: Anyways, let's use logic here. If Sidious is more powerful... then his lightning would logically be stronger as well, right?

Originally posted by Gideon
Oh, I see. So, by offering accounts of Sidious's superiority, I am overhyping his abilities. But when you defend him without proof or conclusive evidence and say that his power is equal to or greater than Sidious's own (when it comes to lightning), you are "defending him to a certain extent".
Master practitioners of Lightning do not have edge over others in terms of Lightning in Combat situations. Those who practice this, surely know how to defend against this.

Originally posted by Gideon
Wrong!

I am speaking the truth. Otherwise, you'd have refuted it by now.
No! you even deny your own comments. Hints are already above.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yeah, you totally ignored the example of Yoda up there, didn't ya? Some "masters" are better than other "masters". Kind've like Sidious and Revan. Revan may be a master lightning practitioner, lol, but Sidious is the stronger one.
Their is no canonical evidence to suggest that Sidious's Lightning is strongest then that of all others. This is your own assumption. But if their is such evidence then post it here and I will accept it.

Originally posted by Gideon
Translation: I am indeed a walking contradiction!
This comment suits you now well.

Originally posted by Gideon
Disagree? Oh, well, then prove it.
Prove what? That Sidious's performance is over-all more impressive? You surely fail to understand simple logics, which is pathetic. Are you drunk or something?

Originally posted by Gideon
Like I said. Just because you've lost doesn't mean that my assertions (which are backed by canon) are wrong or stupid as well. Sorry.
Where it is canonically stated that Sidious's Lightning is most powerful then that of all others?

Originally posted by Gideon
Yeah, and your example got curbstomped.
Nopes!

Originally posted by Gideon
No, lol, because there's no proof that Bastilla's meditation surpassed Sidious's. Sidious may very well be the most potent user of battle meditation ever, either. What he did to the Imperial Starfleet (if you've ever read the RotJ novelization) is hand-in-hand with mind control. He completely dominated them in every way, and even Thrawn makes it clear.
Again you are making a personal assumption that Sidious may be the most potent user of Battle Meditation in Star Wars Galaxy, which is not said anywhere. He commanded the Imperial Fleet and was ruler of Empire. He used Mind Domination abilities but he did not demonstrated what Bastilla has demonstrated.

Originally posted by Gideon
And he maintained control of the fleet even during his confrontation with Luke and Vader.

So, yeah. Pretty much thinking Sidious > Bastilla there, too.
He had obvious advantage of Death Star. He said that the rebellion was in-significant. And he was more concentrating on Luke then on his fleet as shown in the movies. Plus! Death Star was protected by the Shield that would have to be de-activated before Rebel Forces could make a move.

It was not like what Bastilla was doing on Star Forge. Bastilla turned the tide in war without any Death Star or something and simply through her Battle Meditation.

Two very different cases here.

Originally posted by Gideon
Your point kind've reminds me of Darth Maul. Bisected and at the bottom of Theed's melting pit.
You remind of those people who think that they are always right.

Originally posted by Gideon
I hear the dumbass klaxon ringing. Sidious is the more potent caster of Force lightning.
Prove this through an official statement and I will accept it. Also post the link of that evidence.

Originally posted by Gideon
Bingo! You don't have proper evidence to support your point, so you try (and fail) to question mine.
You have not proved your point yet so your case is not better then mine.

Originally posted by Gideon
Oh, the workings of a deluded mind.
I can say the same thing about you.

Originally posted by Gideon
No. Your logics are more flawed than Planet's one-time belief that Freedon Nadd was the Chosen One. Seriously, I'd probably believe that over any garbage you spill out.
I have not stated that kind of garbage. Your assumption is wrong.

Originally posted by Gideon
You should be the one considering letting go of the debate. Y'know, with the sheer absence of an argument on your part.

In a way, you're entertaining. I said "assertion", and wham! You try to cram it in every other line. Then you whine about "being civil!". Yeah. It's cute.
You also let go the debate then.

Originally posted by Gideon
Don't lie. You did say that, but according to you, you "rectified" it.
Blind people like you can never understand. I have addressed that issue already so get over it.

Originally posted by Gideon
Lmao. No, you're having difficulty understanding that Sidious's lightning is more potent than Revan's.
Provide me written evidence with Link that Sidious's Lightning is most powerful.

Everyone wants to spout this shit about Nadd attacking from light years away, but fail to mention that Vodo received absolutely NO injuries. So really, point moot.

Um actually i dis agree with you, palpatine Did a galaxy wide battle meditation during the OT and that made the empire far stronger than it is, FOC proves this again and after he died, the imperial forces started to crumble even by attacks by the zann consortium.

Sidious meditation > bastilas

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Everyone wants to spout this shit about Nadd attacking from light years away, but fail to mention that Vodo received absolutely NO injuries. So really, point moot.
He stopped Vodo from using Meditation to help Exar and succeeded in his purpose, so point not moot.

It was surely a masterful display of Dark Side Feat.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Um actually i dis agree with you, palpatine Did a galaxy wide battle meditation during the OT and that made the empire far stronger than it is, FOC proves this again and after he died, the imperial forces started to crumble even by attacks by the zann consortium.

Sidious meditation > bastilas
Moral of Rebel Forces had not collapsed. They continued to fight and were waiting for the right movement to strike after the shield of Death Star was de-activated.

Their is no reference to state that Sidious had the best Battle Meditation ability of all times.

Bastilla not just over-powered one side with her Meditation ability but at the same time destroyed the will of other side to turn tide in wars. Her meditation performance in Battle of Star Forge was simply amazing.

Bastilla's Meditation > then that of Sidous. Until this is canonically refuted, then I am not accepting this assumption.

Bull shit, FOC and the EU proved palpatines battle meditation was galaxy-wide, and the rebel forces in ROTJ were getting pwned and the star destroyers didnt even do shit until palpatine died, Thats when they got the crushing blow

You know what galaxy wide is right? Even bastila cant do that

Originally posted by Kadesh
Bull shit, FOC and the EU proved palpatines battle meditation was galaxy-wide, and the rebel forces in ROTJ were getting pwned and the star destroyers didnt even do shit until palpatine died, Thats when they got the crushing blow

You know what galaxy wide is right? Even bastila cant do that
That battle was not Galaxy wide or was it? It took place around the Death Star.

Also, Rebel Forces were getting hit by direct fire from the Death Star itself. Surely that would scare anybody.

But Bastilla installed fear in to the heart of the enemies by her Will through her meditation. She did not required any Death Star to do that.

Rebel raiders were waiting for shield of Death Star to go down to make a killer strike at its core. And after the shield was de-activated, they just did that.

Watch the fight in the movie for better clarification. G-canon is greater then any C-canon.

All he did was block his meditation, that could be construed as blocking it on his end. The point of an attack is to injure and/or kill someone...neither happened to Vodo, so its not that impressive.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
All he did was block his meditation, that could be construed as blocking it on his end. The point of an attack is to injure and/or kill someone...neither happened to Vodo, so its not that impressive.
Nadd's purpose was to stop Vodo from helping Exar Kun through meditation because he wanted to turn Exar Kun to Dark Side for his own secret purposes.

He just did that and it was an amazing feat. He succeeded in doing what he wanted and thats the point here.

Killing is irrelevant. Nadd was powerful enought to kill a Jedi if he wanted to. And attacks are not always made to kill.

FFS i said in the EU, during the dark times, That was where he did galaxy-wide battle mediation


and palpatine was busy tempting luke to the dark side, had he fully focused on battle meditation the rebel alliance would collapse and disintegrate, and sidious was doing it sub consciously. And bastila had to concentrate like hell just to even make her battlemeditation on the same level as his

And the fight shows that the rebel alliance was losing before palpatine got killed and the shields went down,

Bastilas battlemeditation is crap compared to lukes,

Seriously are you trying to compare an inferior to the most powerful sith lord in the galaxy? When he learns something, he masters it to its highest degree

Originally posted by Kadesh
FFS i said in the EU, during the dark times, That was where he did galaxy-wide battle mediation


and palpatine was busy tempting luke to the dark side, had he fully focused on battle meditation the rebel alliance would collapse and disintegrate, and sidious was doing it sub consciously. And bastila had to concentrate like hell just to even make her battlemeditation on the same level as his

And the fight shows that the rebel alliance was losing before palpatine got killed and the shields went down,
Their is no definate proof that Palpatine would have caused great destruction to Rebel Forces through his Will. He had Death Star at his disposal for a good reason.

And Rebel Alliance was being directly hit by Death Star's super laser. What would you expect from Rebels in such a situation?

If shields went down earlier, then Rebels would attack earlier. Remember that the Rebels were perpared for this mission.

Also canonically, where it is said that Bastilla's meditation is inferior to that of Sidious? A direct statement would be nice along with the link.

And canonically where does it state that bastilas battle mediation is greater than sidious? What part of GALAXY WIDE dont you understand?
Note this happened in to EU.

And the DS only could hit capital ships and yet there were so many Y-wings and x wings blowing up and getting pwned by tie fighters

And palpatine planned all this, he did it at a level which wont crush the rebels, he wanted luke to fall to his trap,

By the way Eaw and FOC featured the empire destroying its enemies in every part of the galaxy and they won at every single planet that was under imperial control, all due to palpatines battle meditation which is masterfull and galaxy wide.

QUIT being a kotor fanboy, its totally ridiculous that you are comparing bastila, an inferior to the mostpowerful sith lord in the galaxy.

O and a canon statement that his powers > bastila? DESB, "Palpatine is believed to MASTER all known force powers, unknown force powers and invents them at his pleasure."

ill continue this tomorrow

Originally posted by Kadesh
And canonically where does it state that bastilas battle mediation is greater than sidious? What part of GALAXY WIDE dont you understand?
Note this happened in to EU.

And the DS only could hit capital ships and yet there were so many Y-wings and x wings blowing up and getting pwned by tie fighters

And palpatine planned all this, he did it at a level which wont crush the rebels, he wanted luke to fall to his trap,

By the way Eaw and FOC featured the empire destroying its enemies in every part of the galaxy and they won at every single planet that was under imperial control, all due to palpatines battle meditation which is masterfull and galaxy wide.

QUIT being a kotor fanboy, its totally ridiculous that you are comparing bastila, an inferior to the mostpowerful sith lord in the galaxy.

O and a canon statement that his powers > bastila? DESB, "Palpatine is believed to MASTER all known force powers, unknown force powers and invents them at his pleasure."
According to my knowledge, palpatine used Battle Meditation in Battle of Endor. Not only he but Grand Admiral Nial Declann was also using Battle Meditation in Battle of Endor.

So two master practitioners of Battle Meditation were using this ability in one single battle despite having the advantage of Death Star. Very convincing!

Bastilla alone turned the tide of the entire war in Battle of Rakata Prime easily in short time. This was very impressive.

She was one of the master practitioners of Battle Meditation and she mastered it in very early age. What point of this don't you actually understand?

And "Battle Meditation" is such a powerful ability that it can be effective through-out the Galaxy.

She can be easily compared to palpatine in this regard and their is no fanboyism here and her case looks better. She was the biggest trouble for Sith Empire in KOTOR due to this ability and that's why Malak wanted her so badly.

What bullshit who the hell is nial declenn. care to stop making bull shit up?

battle meditation works quickly, its not impressive when you turned the tide

Accoring to my knowledge palaptine only used minimal BM in the battle of endor, and yet it turned out sweatly for him before he got his ass wiped by vader.

And no, theres no way in hell she can compare to someone who did a galaxy-wide battle meditation. If the great bastila is so damm good with BM, why did she need to concentrate like hell and why couldnt she do it galaxy wide?

Is this crap still continuing?

Apparantly, Sw legend claims bastila is better than palaptine in BM which is bull shit

She could be, it's very possible. But Bastilla was the most famous BM practitioner. Her feat in the battle over Rakata Prime and in the battle in which they caught Revan kinda surpasses Sidious' BM. But at the same time it never states that Sidious was a BM master, so it's very possible.

Originally posted by Kadesh
What bullshit who the hell is nial declenn. care to stop making bull shit up?

battle meditation works quickly, its not impressive when you turned the tide

Accoring to my knowledge palaptine only used minimal BM in the battle of endor, and yet it turned out sweatly for him before he got his ass wiped by vader.

And no, theres no way in hell she can compare to someone who did a galaxy-wide battle meditation. If the great bastila is so damm good with BM, why did she need to concentrate like hell and why couldnt she do it galaxy wide?
Kadesh you got all you points wrong here.

Two people: Palpatine and Nial Declann were using Battle Meditation in Battle of Endor.

Here is quote: "Grand Admiral Nial Declann had also mastered this technique, and used it to great effect in the Battle of Endor."

Nial Declann was a Grand Admiral in Imperial Navy and also had mastered Battle Meditation ability. He was using it to great effect during Battle of Endor.

You have to note that Bastilla mastered this technique in very early age, which was extremely rare. She alone turned the tide of war in the massive battle of Rakatan Prime in a short time.

She has done more impressive job with it. And Battle Meditation has no limitations in terms of Area. It can effect targeted people throughout the Galaxy.

Kadesh, Bastila's BM is possibly the best in the SW Galaxy, she turned the tide of a battle in seconds just by deciding on which side she wanted to win.

Palpatine himself was able to control the billions of soldiers in the armada at Endor...Thrawn notes when he died, everything changed immediately

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Palpatine himself was able to control the billions of soldiers in the armada at Endor...Thrawn notes when he died, everything changed immediately
Thrawn was not present in Battle of Endor. He speculated that it was only due to death of Emperor, that the Imperial Forces fell. His views are partially true however. And he clearly knew that Nial Declann was also using Battle Meditation in the battle but he did not used his name in his speech.

Emperor was getting distracted by Luke vs Vader showdown and during the battle he gets off to kill Luke himself. Nial Declann was making sure that in case if something happens to Emperor, his BM will help.

So technically two persons were using BM during Battle of Endor and still lost.

Bastilla however changed the fate of the entire battle in a very short time. She was alone influencing minds of her enemies (making their moral and tactics weak) and also of that of her allies (making them respond perfectly in all situations). And they all numbered in billions as well.

You're right, Thrawn was in the outer rim for all those years, so what he said was speculation. Sidious was good at BM but Bastilla is still the best in the sw galaxy.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You're right, Thrawn was in the outer rim for all those years, so what he said was speculation. Sidious was good at BM but Bastilla is still the best in the sw galaxy.

Unfortunately, Thrawn had years of experience with the Emperor to make an accurate assessment. But, like I said, even if that doesn't suit you, read the RotJ novel. Sidious's death caused a massive disturbance in the Force, and the control he had over the Imperials at Endor was outrageous - and his death (not the destruction of the Death Star) that shifted the tide from Imperial victory to that of the Rebellion.

And, really, you can't say Bastilla's was better, considering how both forces in her space battle were attempting to kill one another. In RotJ, Palpatine ordered the Imperial fleet to simply prevent the Rebellion from escaping. And, yet, the TIE fighters and the Death Star managed to wipe out a fifth of the Rebellion's overall fleet.

Edit: The novelization (G-canon) credits Palpatine with this feat. And he did so, despite being distracted with the engagement with Vader and Luke. Bastilla had to sit her ass down and go into complete concentration mode before she could get anything done.

Hell, the visual guide makes it clear: "Palpatine drew his powers of persuasion and control from the blackest depths of the dark side of the Force."

So, LeGenD, tell me, where is this source that that Grand Admiral was using battle meditation? Methinks your quote is coming from Wookipedia.

Well really its no knock on power to be below Palpatine. None whatsoever.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Well really its no knock on power to be below Palpatine. None whatsoever.

Agreed. Considering how everyone this side of full-potential Anakin and NJO Luke is.

Originally posted by Gideon
Unfortunately, Thrawn had years of experience with the Emperor to make an accurate assessment. But, like I said, even if that doesn't suit you, read the RotJ novel. Sidious's death caused a massive disturbance in the Force, and the control he had over the Imperials at Endor was outrageous - and his death (not the destruction of the Death Star) that shifted the tide from Imperial victory to that of the Rebellion.

And, really, you can't say Bastilla's was better, considering how both forces in her space battle were attempting to kill one another. In RotJ, Palpatine ordered the Imperial fleet to simply prevent the Rebellion from escaping. And, yet, the TIE fighters and the Death Star managed to wipe out a fifth of the Rebellion's overall fleet.

Edit: The novelization (G-canon) credits Palpatine with this feat. And he did so, despite being distracted with the engagement with Vader and Luke. Bastilla had to sit her ass down and go into complete concentration mode before she could get anything done.

Hell, the visual guide makes it clear: "Palpatine drew his powers of persuasion and control from the blackest depths of the dark side of the Force."

So, LeGenD, tell me, where is this source that that Grand Admiral was using battle meditation? Methinks your quote is coming from Wookipedia.

And that is why sidious battle meditation >bastilas

Originally posted by Kadesh
And that is why sidious battle meditation >bastilas

Pretty much Sidious' everything > Everyone elses everything (up until NJO anyways)

id say Sidious is second only to luke