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Is it just me, or do you notice that Marvel and DC are pretty much running out of ideas, and are pretty much just competing against each other for whose characters are more powerful ?



Not to mention, resurrecting stories best left alone, constantly ret-conning sh*t over and over to make the new stories a "bigger deal than the last"


I honestly get viciously annoyed by this. I used to love Silver Surfer, Spiderman, and X Men, but now its just a repetition of the same ol sh*t.....the series was a masterpeice until recently when things get overdone...


Spectre is still pretty good, because they don't make his adventures tooo over the top..as of now, he still remains on Earth, and even though he is possibly the most powerful character in DC, he still faces many believable challenges.....I think the writers have influenced from the person who wrote the Lucifer Morningstar series, because that person knew how to write very well.....





But as for Superman, Batman, Spiderman, X Men, current Silver Surfer, etc. its the same ol' shit over and over, a recycling of the old stories, trying to impress us more and more, resurrecting characters repeatedly, just a senseless orgy of colorful bullshit.....




That is why I love Spawn and the late Crossgen Comics....they are not guilty of this.....they knew how to write much smarter, without overloads of PIS and retcon....


Yes, Spawn did go through a retcon, but that was because Todd McFarlane was sued for using Chapel as the character who killed Al Simmons, so they had to replace Chapel with Jessica Priest.....

The only other retcon in Spawn is that God is an evil being who is not the creator of the Image Universe, because before that God was manifested as a loving old lady who did create the universe....but her last appearance was SO FAR BACK, it almost doesn't matter




I dunno...im getting a lil bored and tired of Marvel and DC, I feel they are losing thier magic little by little....

What do you guys think ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Is it just me, or do you notice that Marvel and DC are pretty much running out of ideas, and are pretty much just competing against each other for whose characters are more powerful ?



Not to mention, resurrecting stories best left alone, constantly ret-conning sh*t over and over to make the new stories a "bigger deal than the last"


I honestly get viciously annoyed by this. I used to love Silver Surfer, Spiderman, and X Men, but now its just a repetition of the same ol sh*t.....the series was a masterpeice until recently when things get overdone...


Spectre is still pretty good, because they don't make his adventures tooo over the top..as of now, he still remains on Earth, and even though he is possibly the most powerful character in DC, he still faces many believable challenges.....I think the writers have influenced from the person who wrote the Lucifer Morningstar series, because that person knew how to write very well.....





But as for Superman, Batman, Spiderman, X Men, current Silver Surfer, etc. its the same ol' shit over and over, a recycling of the old stories, trying to impress us more and more, resurrecting characters repeatedly, just a senseless orgy of colorful bullshit.....




That is why I love Spawn and the late Crossgen Comics....they are not guilty of this.....they knew how to write much smarter, without overloads of PIS and retcon....


Yes, Spawn did go through a retcon, but that was because Todd McFarlane was sued for using Chapel as the character who killed Al Simmons, so they had to replace Chapel with Jessica Priest.....

The only other retcon in Spawn is that God is an evil being who is not the creator of the Image Universe, because before that God was manifested as a loving old lady who did create the universe....but her last appearance was SO FAR BACK, it almost doesn't matter




I dunno...im getting a lil bored and tired of Marvel and DC, I feel they are losing thier magic little by little....

What do you guys think ?

i do agree with you to a point, but i think that given the length some comics have been running, the occasional retcon is needed... i mean, some of the older stories just dont stand up to scrutiny anymore, and they need to be adapted for modern audiences...

that said, the lack of fresh writing was always going to be a problem, but i dont think the problem is as widespread as it could be...

there are plenty of decent comics out there that use good writing but classic themes...

I disagree.

Originally posted by Scoobless
I disagree.

with what?

The whole thing. Recycling happens, but McFarlane did the same thing with Spawn. King of Hell, and now he's as powerful as the Devil, again.

Originally posted by pr1983
with what?

With most of what Urizen posted..... but I'm having much too lazy a boxing day to get into it right now ... maybe tomorrow.

Originally posted by Scoobless
With most of what Urizen posted..... but I'm having much too lazy a boxing day to get into it right now ... maybe tomorrow.



hey, as long as you arent arguing with me, its all good...

I agree with Scoob, including the lazy part.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Is it just me, or do you notice that Marvel and DC are pretty much running out of ideas, and are pretty much just competing against each other for whose characters are more powerful ?



Not to mention, resurrecting stories best left alone, constantly ret-conning sh*t over and over to make the new stories a "bigger deal than the last"


I honestly get viciously annoyed by this. I used to love Silver Surfer, Spiderman, and X Men, but now its just a repetition of the same ol sh*t.....the series was a masterpeice until recently when things get overdone...


Spectre is still pretty good, because they don't make his adventures tooo over the top..as of now, he still remains on Earth, and even though he is possibly the most powerful character in DC, he still faces many believable challenges.....I think the writers have influenced from the person who wrote the Lucifer Morningstar series, because that person knew how to write very well.....





But as for Superman, Batman, Spiderman, X Men, current Silver Surfer, etc. its the same ol' shit over and over, a recycling of the old stories, trying to impress us more and more, resurrecting characters repeatedly, just a senseless orgy of colorful bullshit.....




That is why I love Spawn and the late Crossgen Comics....they are not guilty of this.....they knew how to write much smarter, without overloads of PIS and retcon....


Yes, Spawn did go through a retcon, but that was because Todd McFarlane was sued for using Chapel as the character who killed Al Simmons, so they had to replace Chapel with Jessica Priest.....

The only other retcon in Spawn is that God is an evil being who is not the creator of the Image Universe, because before that God was manifested as a loving old lady who did create the universe....but her last appearance was SO FAR BACK, it almost doesn't matter




I dunno...im getting a lil bored and tired of Marvel and DC, I feel they are losing thier magic little by little....

What do you guys think ?

I agree

I agree to a point. It's inevitable; after a character's been around for forty years, what are you going to do with him that's really fresh? Especially when you've gotten the idea somehow that you have to keep reusing the same villains over and over? Still, Vertigo rocks the house, and there's good stuff going on in the mainstream titles.

Spawn is an awful comic, but Crossgen was awsome. Broke my heart when I heard they went out of business.

Meh, after decades of the same characters it's bound to happen. And retcons help new readers get involved with the characters, rather than having to delve through back issues to determine continuity and power levels.

Not always great for us comic geeks, but necessary from a business standpoint.

Meh

Maybe some stories are recycled, god knows im tired of so many phoenix(Xmen) stories as of recent years but u gotta admit they also have some of the best stuff to come out ever like Batman: Hush, Identity Crisis and the biggest original story that have fans and non fans going back to a comic book store, Marvel's Civil War. I dont know of another storyline that has brought non comic book readers to pick up comic books like CW. I know a few people that after reading about it on the newspaper started picking the books when they started to come out and havent stopped since.

Its not that they can't write new stories.

Its that they feel they're limited in what kinda stories certain characters could/should be a part of.

Superman can't be written entirely freely, because you run the risk of crossing the line that Superman has been shown not to cross.

Every character can't be in a new edgy story, since it might not be true to the character.

Originally posted by UniOmni
Its not that they can't write new stories.

Its that they feel they're limited in what kinda stories certain characters could/should be a part of.

Superman can't be written entirely freely, because you run the risk of crossing the line that Superman has been shown not to cross.

Every character can't be in a new edgy story, since it might not be true to the character.

The recycled Zod storyline in action comics is an example of exactly this.

- FO!!

Originally posted by Flame On!!
The recycled Zod storyline in action comics is an example of exactly this.

- FO!!

Oh yes. I love the Kuberts work and I was curious what and how they were gonna be involved in DC, pretty similar stories, both have to do with a kid but when they brought Zod on AC it wasnt shocking, it was more like "not again!". They used him on the Jim Lee run and recently on Smallville which wasnt so bad, maybe because it was tv.

Annhilation doesn't seem like it was recycled.

Wait, how is Silver Surfer recycled?

Originally posted by Howard_Jones
The whole thing. Recycling happens, but McFarlane did the same thing with Spawn. King of Hell, and now he's as powerful as the Devil, again.




That's not retconned, nor it is recycling....



Spawn was king of the 8th level of Hell, and only that part of it...he was overthrown...that was the plot.


He was reborn with the introduction of the Mother of Creation who placed him on par with God and Satan after he defeated her Disciples...
the point is the battle of Armaggedon and these events are beyond Spawn's true power to handle....MOM had to get involved, because of her pity for the human race.



Tell me how Spawn has been done "over and over" like Marvel and DC ?


DC has how many Infinity Crisis sagas? Not that thier not interesting or ne thing, because they are great, but it's the same concept done to death.....Same with Marvel:The End. Just a recreation of Infinity Gauntlet, to make people go, "OH WOW THATS SO COOL, EVEN MORE POWERFUL AND MORE POWERFUL UNTIL I ESPLODE !"

Let us look at Spawn's major villians:




1)Violator- has been harassing Spawn and those he loves for pretty much the entire series. Has had maybe 4 major cameos in the entire series.





2)Malebolgia- died issue 100, that's that....





3)Mammon- once considered Spawn's greatest enemy, now it is revealed that he is working for a far greater power




4)Zera- an enormous threat, a major powerhouse, one of Spawn's most powerful adversaries, she only was on the series for about 4 issues...


5)Satan- was JUST revealed within the past few issues, the enemy that has been mentioned was finally revealed in Armaggedon, but even he isn't the greatest threat here


6)God- all this time we thought he was the good guy, he was just as bad and ruthless as every other villian in Spawn, he just happens to be one of the most powerful


7)Urizen- Dark God who nearly destroyed the world, so dangerous that Heaven and Hell decided to unite in war against him....Greenworld had to get involved for his defeat



Now there is a new threat, a being who aims to feed on the Earth.....someone who is apparently rumored to be a greater threat than even God and Satan...


Oh, and guess what ? Humanity is dead........that's never happened in Spawn before....







Tell me dude, how has Spawn's stories been recycled ?

yea, its actually an amazing story.

It's a problem, but one I can live with. The stories are recycled in ways you can't even imagine, but general writing has improved a lot. That's something.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Tell me dude, how has Spawn's stories been recycled ?

I already said it. Spawn was at one point the King of Hell. Now he's at that level again, powerful as Satan.

The Legion showed up when he took over hell, then he used the again, but gave them an actual name.

Also, the whole "powers of hell used against it" has already been used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Rider

Also, the symbiotic costume has also been used by McFarlane before.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venom_%28comics%29

Fighting a demon that affects humans has already been done
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackheart

Fighting Vampires has already been done
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_%28comics%29

so, saying Spawn and everything he does is completely original is just dumb. Good comic, but nothing really new.

Toppy.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Is it just me, or do you notice that Marvel and DC are pretty much running out of ideas, and are pretty much just competing against each other for whose characters are more powerful ?

Not to mention, resurrecting stories best left alone, constantly ret-conning sh*t over and over to make the new stories a "bigger deal than the last"

I honestly get viciously annoyed by this. I used to love Silver Surfer, Spiderman, and X Men, but now its just a repetition of the same ol sh*t.....the series was a masterpeice until recently when things get overdone...

Spectre is still pretty good, because they don't make his adventures tooo over the top..as of now, he still remains on Earth, and even though he is possibly the most powerful character in DC, he still faces many believable challenges.....I think the writers have influenced from the person who wrote the Lucifer Morningstar series, because that person knew how to write very well.....

But as for Superman, Batman, Spiderman, X Men, current Silver Surfer, etc. its the same ol' shit over and over, a recycling of the old stories, trying to impress us more and more, resurrecting characters repeatedly, just a senseless orgy of colorful bullshit.....

That is why I love Spawn and the late Crossgen Comics....they are not guilty of this.....they knew how to write much smarter, without overloads of PIS and retcon....

Yes, Spawn did go through a retcon, but that was because Todd McFarlane was sued for using Chapel as the character who killed Al Simmons, so they had to replace Chapel with Jessica Priest.....

The only other retcon in Spawn is that God is an evil being who is not the creator of the Image Universe, because before that God was manifested as a loving old lady who did create the universe....but her last appearance was SO FAR BACK, it almost doesn't matter

I dunno...im getting a lil bored and tired of Marvel and DC, I feel they are losing thier magic little by little....

What do you guys think ?

Agreed. But hey, comics are hardly alone. Let's throw in Hollywood (eg, remakes), the music industry (eg, poptart clones) and the fashion industry (eg...damn, too many to mention).

Well wado you expect from a world where death is something of a habbit>or a nuisence to some. Most characters have been around for like when our fathers were kids. Of corse they are gonna start using ideas over n over, some characters are coming outa the closet to keep hip&fresh, i dun see it. well when all else in DC fails call EMOBOY PRIME and everythings gona change IC2 maybe eh...For Marvel I garuntee Thanos, or Galactus is involved.