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In response to Sion & Nihilus vs. Entire PT Jedi Order, I decided to make this thread due to the rising debate whether Yoda can defeat Nihilus and block the Ultra Death Field of the Sith Lord.

Who wins in this clash of titans?

Quotes and Analysis from the Star Wars Databank

From the profile of Jedi Master Yoda:

contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides.

This line from the Star Wars Databank is in regards to the Duel in the Senate Chamber between the Dark Lord Palpatine and the Jedi Grandmaster Yoda. The line proves that up to that point in time, Sidious and Yoda were the most powerful practitioners of the Force. In the duel, while Sidious bested Yoda by knocking him down the pods, in fact the fight ended in a stalemate with neither side overcoming the other.

Sidious's Force Strength = Yoda's Force Strength
Sidious's Force Strength > Nihilus's Force Strength
Ergo, by the Transitive Property of Equality:

Yoda's Force Strength > Nihilus's Force Strength

With evidence from Lightsnake proving that Yoda had a defense for every Light and Dark Side technique, and Yoda being the most powerful Light side user of the Force up to that point of time and him having a greater Force strength than Nihilus, I'm sure we can conclude that Yoda, in some way possible, can block Nihilus's Ultra Death Field.

More proof on how powerful ROTS Sidious was? Well take a look at this:

From the profile of Palpatine:

He is the most powerful practitioner of the Sith ways in modern times. He studied the ancient ruins on the Sith mausoleum world of Korriban. He unlocked secrets of the Force from a captured Jedi Holocron. The dark side energies flowing through Palpatine's body were so intense, that they ravaged his mortal frame.

Along with other sources, such as the tNEC, etc., Palpatine is the most powerful Sith Lord in existence. Yoda was equivalent to that might. If this is the case, then it seems very very very likely that Yoda can defeat Nihilus.

Want more evidence Nihilus supporters? Well, that'll come soon....

This is General Kenobl signing off.....

Yoda can block it, but it'll weaken him to do so. It's either very close or a stalemate.

That's not a very good argument considering the fact that an inferior force user could possess more natural skill in a specific ability. Do I have to bring up Kar Vastor as an example? And not to mention ROTS Yoda=ROTS Sidious.. ROTJ Sidious>ROTS Sidious and DE Sidious>everybody except Luke.

Hmmm.......ROTS Yoda is not Yoda in his prime. Yoda in his prime is probably equal to ROTJ or DE Sidious. He can defeat Nihilus ofr sure.

And even then, ROTS Yoda is very powerful in terms of the Force. 8 centuries of experience coming at Nihilius here.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
Hmmm.......ROTS Yoda is not Yoda in his prime. Yoda in his prime is probably equal to ROTJ or DE Sidious.

Proof?

Well in terms of the lightsaber, Yoda isn't at his peak. In terms of Force strength, he's in his prime.

Actually in terms of both I'd say Yoda is at his prime by ROTS. Sidious to the dark side is what Anakin/Luke is to the light side though, so his potential is beyond Yoda. Ah how the force operates.

Theories , by General Kenobl:

Except you cannot accurately measure when they all hit their prime, so that argument is valid, but not sound.

Next point of argument:

Darth Nihilus is facing a singular opponent. Unlike Katarr, Nihilus wouldn't risk his Ultra Death Field in fear of it destroying the very turf he is on, and thus kill himself.

So he will attempt to focus a powerful Drain at Yoda. Now Yoda, being one of the greatest Light Side Force users and a greater Force user than Nihilus (which includes the Ultra Death Field), would most likely put a Shield to reflect this at Nihilus. This will tire Nihilus as he did against he fight against Exile.

From here, Yoda whips out his lightsaber and pwns and kills the Sith Lord in a clash of blades.

It's very accurate though, you have to admit. My Theories require me to put a good thought into the matter. Oh well.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
Next point of argument:

Darth Nihilus is facing a singular opponent. Unlike Katarr, Nihilus wouldn't risk his Ultra Death Field in fear of it destroying the very turf he is on, and thus kill himself.

So he will attempt to focus a powerful Drain at Yoda. Now Yoda, being one of the greatest Light Side Force users and a greater Force user than Nihilus (which includes the Ultra Death Field), would most likely put a Shield to reflect this at Nihilus. This will tire Nihilus as he did against he fight against Exile.

From here, Yoda whips out his lightsaber and pwns and kills the Sith Lord in a clash of blades.

No, it will NOT tire him like it did against Nihilus, because what tired Nihilus while fighting the Exile was the fact that the Exile could disconnect himself from the force, and the force consumption worked against Nihilus. So THAT isn't a valid argument.

A Shield can reflect the Drain back at Nihilus. And next, Yoda can dodge the Drain attack aimed at him. If Nihilus decided to a widespread Drain, Yoda can continue jumping away and have Nihilus facing the risk of the setting collapse around him if the hunger goes over the top.

The ONLY thing that will save Yoda is moving faster than the eye, and then slicing Nihilus in half. But he'd have to move pretty damn fast to get out of Nihilus' range.

Nihilus cannot perform the widespread Ultra Death Field like he did in Katarr for fear of destroying the environment. So he'll attempt to put a concentrated Draining attack at Yoda, which Yoda has the power to Shield against. Yoda has a defense for every Dark Side technique, and considering his considerable power in terms of the Force, he can most likely possess the skill to block a Drain of that magnitude.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
Nihilus cannot perform the widespread Ultra Death Field like he did in Katarr for fear of destroying the environment. So he'll attempt to put a concentrated Draining attack at Yoda, which Yoda has the power to Shield against. Yoda has a defense for every Dark Side technique, and considering his considerable power in terms of the Force, he can most likely possess the skill to block a Drain of that magnitude.


1. You cannot speculate what Nihilus will or will not do. This isn't where we put up hypothetical situations to prove a case.
2. Yoda can have a defense for whatever he wants(still waiting for proof which hasn't arrived), doesn't mean he is strong enough to defend against something like what Nihilus can do. It doesn't work dude.

1. Well if Nihilus is full of gluttony and decides to perform a planet-sucking Ultra Death Field, it's his funeral at the horizon.

Again, youre arguing a hypothetical situation which would put the argument in your favor. We don't deal with "what ifs". I can just as well say "well Yoda trips and falls on his own saber". Understand?

Originally posted by General Kenobl
Yoda has a defense for every Dark Side technique

I bet he does.

Quote, source, and page number. Somehow I doubt Yoda has protection for the entire sum of dark side powers, but of course I'm not going to count it out just because it utterly reeks of bullshit.

Originally posted by Advent
I bet he does.

Quote, source, and page number. Somehow I doubt Yoda has protection for the entire sum of dark side powers, but of course I'm not going to count it out just because it utterly reeks of bullshit.

It was lightsnake who originally posted it and said it was in the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook. Planet said he has the book but it's nowhere in it so I call bullshit.

Nihilus wins. Force Drain. If not than then he merely zaps him to death using Force Lightning. Yoda won't be able to block it with his hands since he had a hard time blocking Sidious's and Nihilus is FAR stronger than Sidious's is. But a Force Drain should do the job.

Ask Lightsnake. He's the one who mentioned it in the first place. He also had a source for it, so I believed him. He doesn't seem to be a lying type.

Nihlius is not stronger then Palpatine, he has one power that he can barley control, that he won't unleash in a one on one duel (He didn't do it to the Exile) And read the start of the topic that say Palpatine > All Sith

Agreed. My 2nd post gives Databank evidence.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Nihlius is not stronger then Palpatine, he has one power that he can barley control, that he won't unleash in a one on one duel (He didn't do it to the Exile) And read the start of the topic that say Palpatine > All Sith


Except he DID unleash it against the exile and he lost because that was the only defense for it, being a wound in the force, so there goes your argument.

They were not the same attack. What he did to Katarr destroyed the geographical structure of the entire planet, read Unseen Unheard, two COMPLETELY different attacks.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
They were not the same attack. What he did to Katarr destroyed the geographical structure of the entire planet, read Unseen Unheard, two COMPLETELY different attacks.


You obviously haven't read or figured out the storyline then. It was the same attack. However it's not an attack, it's what Nihilus does to satisfy his appetite, so whether he does it to a whole world or 1 person, it's the exact same attack. And it failed because the exile was a wound in the force.

Perhaps I misspoke (I did), it was the same attack, but the one he did to the Exile was a MUCH more concentrated, smaller version.

Proof.

1. It didn't affect anyone else in the room, be it Visas, Mandalor or the lackeys standing around.

2. Had he unleashed that power on the Ravager, he would have destroyed the ship, himself and everything else in the vicinity. Something he doesn't want to do since he only lives to feed and the power controls him so it wouldn't let its host kill itself.

Now this is what he would likely do in a 1v1 fight.

Sexy....you're taking Planet's word over mine? Seriously, now...Also, according to the Complete Visual guide, Yoda has spent 900 years studying the Force,as well as consulting the Sith's own holocrons in the Temple to develop his own abilities against the Dark Side.

Page number please?
Methinks you're lying.

Methinks you can **** off.
I don't waste my time with you, brat. Like I said, you may return to being Nadd's whore and let the big boys chat. K? K

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sexy....you're taking Planet's word over mine? Seriously, now...Also, according to the Complete Visual guide, Yoda has spent 900 years studying the Force,as well as consulting the Sith's own holocrons in the Temple to develop his own abilities against the Dark Side.


And once again, how in the blue hell does this equate to him building up a defense for something that will eat at his life force on such a scale he's never seen before? "Oh well he's a PT Jedi" simply doesn't cut it lightsnake.

Much is unknown about yoda he could have met the fallanasi during that 900years, I doubt a shield actually works and had it been so effective, the jedi on katarr would throw it up agains the ultra death field.

Ipretty much agree with DS though, the best way to evade something which drains the force itself is the fallanasi technique

Me and lightsnaked discussd this, it could be possible that yoda learnt the looping technique, how much do we know of him? We havnt covered his 900 years study

Originally posted by General Kenobl
A Shield can reflect the Drain back at Nihilus. And next, Yoda can dodge the Drain attack aimed at him. If Nihilus decided to a widespread Drain, Yoda can continue jumping away and have Nihilus facing the risk of the setting collapse around him if the hunger goes over the top. Thats bull shit, a shield cannot reflect a drain and even if it did, It would have no effect, why? Nihilus himself is a wound in the force
And widespread drain? Yoda would get killed.

Again if the almighty shield is so usefull, why didnt the jedi on katarr use it? Its highly likely they had that ability considering they were experienced masters and they had like what minutes to throw one up? Its instant, POD proved the shield can come up instantly

Perhaps they were caught by surprise...
Or perhaps they did throw up a shield, but they weren't strong enough to defend...
The fact is, there's no reason to assume that a force shield wouldn't defend against a force drain.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Again if the almighty shield is so usefull, why didnt the jedi on katarr use it? Its highly likely they had that ability considering they were experienced masters and they had like what minutes to throw one up? Its instant, POD proved the shield can come up instantly

Because none of them were superior Force users to Nihilus. It doesn't matter if you don't know the technique if you're facing a more powerful Force-user anyway. Nihilus was the prime Force-user in his day, and therefore could overpower all his opponents with Force Drain. However, could he do it when faced with a superior Force user, like Yoda?

And if you don't think that Yoda is a superior Force user, then look at this diagram.

Sidious > all pre-PT Sith (according to NEC)
II
Yoda > all pre-PT Jedi (according to RotS novelization)

Nihilus IS a pre-PT Sith, which means that Sidious is more powerful than him. Yoda is equal to Sidious. Yoda is, by the transitive property, (I quote General Kenobi) a better Force-user than Nihilus.
And I doubt whoever was writing Power of the Jedi just said,
"Huh, yeah, duh, uh, wouldn't it be cool if we, uh, you know, just said for no reason that, uh, that little green guy, uhhh, what's his name? Oh yeah, Yoda, if we said that, uh, he had a defense for all darkside, uhh, what's that word... techniques!"

No. They wrote it because Lucas agreed with it.
And don't throw that cr@p at me about Yoda not being able to block Sidious' lightning. Sidious is an equal Force user. Nihilus isn't. Unless George Lucas didn't think that Yoda really knew all darkside techniques and was just sh1tt1ng with us, I think that Yoda can almost definitely block Nihilus' drain.

The NEC is an in-universe source, the narrator is a historian inside the SW Galaxy, his word is fallible, and saying that Sidious is the most powerful is nothing more than an opinion, that is no better than mine or your's.

It was never actually factually stated that Yoda was the most powerful jedi ever up to RotS, all it was, was Yoda coming to realise that, and Yoda is perfectly fallible, so it's not a fact.

The fact is, Darth Nihilus has displayed much greater force power than Yoda, there's simply no way that Yoda can win this.

Originally posted by Sexyback
The NEC is an in-universe source, the narrator is a historian inside the SW Galaxy, his word is fallible, and saying that Sidious is the most powerful is nothing more than an opinion, that is no better than mine or your's.

It was never actually factually stated that Yoda was the most powerful jedi ever up to RotS, all it was, was Yoda coming to realise that, and Yoda is perfectly fallible, so it's not a fact.

The fact is, Darth Nihilus has displayed much greater force power than Yoda, there's simply no way that Yoda can win this.

1. Since when was the NEC not canon? Others have used it in arguments! Nobody said anything then.
2. Yoda was called,"the most tenacious foe the darkness had ever faced" and "the greatest warrior ever to have fought for the light" or some sh1t like that. You're right, it's very indirect.

EDIT- BTW, is it a bad idea to put biscuts in the microwave?

1. I didn't say it wasn't canon, just that the narrator isn't omniscient, he's fallible, and he saying that Sidious is the most powerful by that time is nothing more than an opinion.

2. But it wasn't the author directly saying it, it was Yoda coming to realise it.

Edit - It's a wonderful idea.

1. I dunno, but this argument has been used before, and nothing said.
2. That was not Yoda's opinion, it was stated by the narrator. Yoda hardly seems the type to flatter himself.

edit- thanks!

You guys are STILL missing the point. Nihilus' technique is not really a technique but a wound in the force. There is one known defense for it and that's to loop out of the force or become a wound, which is essentially the same thing. All this bullshit text is just an excuse for not being able to explain how Yoda could possibly defend himself.

Where's the proof for this? It's a nice theory, but I don't see any proof.

Nihilus might be a wound himself, but wtf does that have to do with his drain? It's still a technique.

Originally posted by Darth Godzilla

And if you don't think that Yoda is a superior Force user, then look at this diagram.

Sidious > all pre-PT Sith (according to NEC)
II
Yoda > all pre-PT Jedi (according to RotS novelization)
And by your logic, mace windu > yoda, Because why? He beat sidious whom yoda couldnt beat in saber combat, Does that make mace teh most uber jedi? No

Originally posted by Darth Godzilla

Nihilus IS a pre-PT Sith, which means that Sidious is more powerful than him. Yoda is equal to Sidious. Yoda is, by the transitive property, (I quote General Kenobi) a better Force-user than Nihilus.
And I doubt whoever was writing Power of the Jedi just said,
"Huh, yeah, duh, uh, wouldn't it be cool if we, uh, you know, just said for no reason that, uh, that little green guy, uhhh, what's his name? Oh yeah, Yoda, if we said that, uh, he had a defense for all darkside, uhh, what's that word... techniques!" Name and describe the technique, You ever heard of the fallanasi technique? Yoda might know that, but do we have any proof to say he has it? No, its just our opinions
Originally posted by Darth Godzilla

No. They wrote it because Lucas agreed with it.
And don't throw that cr@p at me about Yoda not being able to block Sidious' lightning. Sidious is an equal Force user. Nihilus isn't. Unless George Lucas didn't think that Yoda really knew all darkside techniques and was just sh1tt1ng with us, I think that Yoda can almost definitely block Nihilus' drain. Yoda can block lightning, but can he block a drain which destroyed mountains and strips human flesh right to the bone? Again this thing drains the force in you,

The force drain technique itself was a technique of the ancient sith and learned on malachor V, but what Nihilus does is completely eat away at the force from living beings on such a level, that it's damn near illogical to have a defense for that.

Why? Why, especially after such problems with Nihilus, would the Order not work tod evelop something, especially with the Exile, Visas and former Sith?
Why would Yodanot be able to circumvent it when the Jedi of his era can disconnect from the Force at will and had contact with the Fallanassi before the Empire's rise.

Nihilus's drain is no different, just the reason for it

Originally posted by Kadesh
And by your logic, mace windu > yoda, Because why? He beat sidious whom yoda couldnt beat in saber combat, Does that make mace teh most uber jedi? No

Name and describe the technique, You ever heard of the fallanasi technique? Yoda might know that, but do we have any proof to say he has it? No, its just our opinions
Yoda can block lightning, but can he block a drain which destroyed mountains and strips human flesh right to the bone? Again this thing drains the force in you,

1. No. There is plenty of proof that Sidious was holding back when fighting Mace, I don't even want to get into that, though. Yoda is most definitely a greater Force-user than Nihilus, however.
2. THE TECHNIQUE DOESN'T HAVE A NAME! I came up with Bob, but that didn't catch on. So it's unnamed! SO WHAT? If you don't think Yoda has a defense for all darkside techniques up to that point in time (even though he might not be able to block them if they come from a more powerful Force-user), then take it up with the NEC. And if you don't think that Nihilus' drain is a darkside technique, well, uhh... I'm at a loss for words.

Could someone please elaborate on the whole looping in and out of the force thing?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
The force drain technique itself was a technique of the ancient sith and learned on malachor V, but what Nihilus does is completely eat away at the force from living beings on such a level, that it's damn near illogical to have a defense for that.

It's damn near illogical for the Jedi, over 1000 years, to have not come up for a defense for it, just in case someone like Nihilus were to rise up.

how can they have come up with a defense against it, not thee force drain but nihilus force drain, have you heard of any other sith doing that drain of that magnatude if so please name him or her. That is the very point others have been saying the force drain is that a drain but nihilus force drain is a mega force drain. Yoda probably cant handle that sort of power, and from the feets ive seen nihilus is above yoda, being able to move his ship and stuff, yoda can move ships that are big too but he strained when he did it and he didnt even move them that much.

Yeah: Palpatine. Globally
And again: there's no difference to the drains, just the power and scale. And you whine so much about the feats you've seen....and Yoda didn't strain when he moved ships....or mountainsides. In fact, it was effortless..he didn't even strain when he carried a gun the size of a house on his back.

Please

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yeah: Palpatine. Globally
And again: there's no difference to the drains, just the power and scale. And you whine so much about the feats you've seen....and Yoda didn't strain when he moved ships....or mountainsides. In fact, it was effortless..he didn't even strain when he carried a gun the size of a house on his back.

Please

Oh yes lightsnake, because carrying a huge gun is somehow on the level of draining entire planets of the force. Great argument. Once again, if you can't prove he can block it(which you can't and won't), give it up. Because at this point it's more than illogical to assume he can.

Hm, maybe you should open your eyes and see I was responding to Mider!

And Yoda knows the defenses and probably the Fallanassi abilities.

BTW, we see Yoda strain, but there's no friggin way to tell if Nihilus is straining. Hell, he could have been on the verge of a heart attack when he pulled the Ravager out of orbit, and we wouldn't have seen anything to show it.
Just wanted to point that out.

Originally posted by Darth Godzilla
1. No. There is plenty of proof that Sidious was holding back when fighting Mace, I don't even want to get into that, though. Yoda is most definitely a greater Force-user than Nihilus, however.
Really? provide proof please, that sidious was holding back, The movie clearly explains mace > sidious is swordplay and mace would know if sidious was holding back.
Originally posted by Darth Godzilla

2. THE TECHNIQUE DOESN'T HAVE A NAME! I came up with Bob, but that didn't catch on. So it's unnamed! SO WHAT? If you don't think Yoda has a defense for all darkside techniques up to that point in time (even though he might not be able to block them if they come from a more powerful Force-user), then take it up with the NEC. And if you don't think that Nihilus' drain is a darkside technique, well, uhh... I'm at a loss for words. I didnt say he didnt have the defence, im argueing against your logic, you havnt come up with an arguement at all, Do you even know the fallanasi? Jeez

@Darth sexy,

Me and lightsnake have been discussing this on Msn. We came with speculation that yoda could have met the fallanasi although we have no proof yet but it is a possibility because he has lived and studied for 900 years. Until we find proof, i dont think we can assume yoda does have the fallanasi technique

Have you even heard of the scepter of ragnos which can drain out force energies from various places? It doesnt drain life out of people but it sucks a place dry from the force.

Nihilus replicated this and brought it to a level strong enough to actually kill living organisms with this technique

Thats the difference between a Force drain and this technique.

Again if its just a simple useless drain, Why would kreia quote it as the greatest sith technique? Because it is different

Just like yesterday, lightsnake does not have an argument. Not even a valid one. It's PT or nothing. Come back when you're ready lightsnake.

Would you just SHUT UP?
You NEVER present an argument. You parrot, you moan, you insult, you make a fool out of yourself and you cannot make ANY argument. I'll take an Antediluvian above you any day, at least they have brains and arguments to back them up.
You're as bad as The Planet.

Now, Kadesh: Once again, it's simply a matter of scale and power. Given Nihilus's nature, he uses it a different way, but it's still the drain as seen in the cutscene. Traya does the same thing, if you recall

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Would you just SHUT UP?
You NEVER present an argument. You parrot, you moan, you insult, you make a fool out of yourself and you cannot make ANY argument. I'll take an Antediluvian above you any day, at least they have brains and arguments to back them up.
You're as bad as The Planet.

Now, Kadesh: Once again, it's simply a matter of scale and power. Given Nihilus's nature, he uses it a different way, but it's still the drain as seen in the cutscene. Traya does the same thing, if you recall

That's adorable dumbass. I claim you don't have an argument, and you throw back the "I know you are but what am I" insult. Thanks Glentract.. Let me guess "No whoops sorry you lose you brat blah blah blah wah wah wah". You have embarassed yourself today, you have embarassed yourself yesterday. I realize denial makes you throw your failures on others, but that's just sad. And of course you'll take an Antedelluvian over me, when it benefits you. Otherwise they will embarass you and send you packing for 6 months because you're an obnoxious little nerd who can't comprehend common sense. So lets try this again.
Me=argument
You=bitching and useless text which you can't back up. Understand yet, or are you going to start crying?

what if the cut scene wasnt accurate?

it's so impossible when he's been alive for 900 years? That tops all but one Jedi. And again: Power of the Jedi is the source, according to previous debates

And Yoda is quick enough to kill Niilus before he can react.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
it's so impossible when he's been alive for 900 years? That tops all but one Jedi. And again: Power of the Jedi is the source, according to previous debates

And Yoda is quick enough to kill Niilus before he can react.


1. Planet says he has the book and nothing that you described is in there. So way to make shit up.
2. Way to prophesize what Yoda can and cannot do fanboy.. Let me try. "Nihilus force drains and sends force lightning at Yoda at the same time while Yoda is trying to run away, so he gets killed". Sound about as ridiculous as your statement? I think so.. So once again we can logically deduce that Yoda either does NOT have a defense for the drain, or doesn't have the ability to stop it. Thank you for playing, come again lightsnake.

1. Planet says he can prove Freedon Nadd is the Chosen One.
2. Awww, whining again. Yoda can move faster than the ey can see. Fact. Nihilus cannot. Yoda knew the Fallanassi personally. Yoda has mastered numerous defenses to the Dark Side. Fact. The Jedi had all the Sith holocrons, which'd fall under the category of Nihilus's

Oops

Well dooku an inferior to yoda could react in time

Dooku's also one of the most powerful Jedi in history and the Order's greatest loss.

Moreso than Darth Ruin, Xendor or Exar Kun, it seems.

Who ever said dooku > exar kun?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
1. Planet says he can prove Freedon Nadd is the Chosen One.
2. Awww, whining again. Yoda can move faster than the ey can see. Fact. Nihilus cannot. Yoda knew the Fallanassi personally. Yoda has mastered numerous defenses to the Dark Side. Fact. The Jedi had all the Sith holocrons, which'd fall under the category of Nihilus's

Oops

What's that lightsnake? I thought Yoda mastered ALL dark side defenses? Now it's numerous? Poor kid. Has to make up sources, and when he's caught, has to contradict himself. Way to debate dumbass. Move along.

Says the one whose back is to the wall, he takes The Planet's word because he has nothing else.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Says the one whose back is to the wall, he takes The Planet's word because he has nothing else.


Look up the word denial lightsnake. You've been owned once again. No argument, no sources, no real quotes. Way to go kid.. Hope you plan on ever graduating college.

Mmmhmm.

http://www.mertner.com/gallery2/d/3532-2/screaming.jpg

*Claps*

Well, this has past the point of anything mature

just making sure you know what you sound like. It's not an issue of maturity, but I don't expect you to comprehend something so simple. Remember, common sense isn't a natural ability lightsnake, you have to use it and apply it to life.

ah, listening to you go on is fun

wow, once again repeating my lines back to me. Way to go broken record, I applaud your futile efforts.

*Claps*

mkk pumpkin whatever makes my special little helper feel better.

For someone so hellbent on saying he's done, he sure posts a lot

I don't know what's worse. The fact that you're an angry clown or the fact that it's so transparent.

I've sacrificed enough dignity on this

the last thing you should be worried about is your dignity, although you have lost a lot of it. I'd include respect, the ability to form cogent arguments, the ability to think clearly, the belief that you aren't a fanboy, etc. I'll come up with some more for you later.

Look Lightsnake!

Yoda's Raw Power is much greater then that of Nihilus.

I believe that Yoda is over-all more powerful then Nihilus.

But Nihilus has still demonstrated more mastery in the Force then him.

Anyways! Yoda is much better then Nihilus in Saber Skills. But he is not a wound in the Force like Jedi Exile.

Nihilus will kill Yoda if he gets caught in Nihilus's Drain attack. And Nihilus's Drain is instant.

You should try to keep your personal biases out from these debates.

About the statements regarding Dooku, yes, Count Dooku was considered "the Order's greatest loss". The complete visual guide says that of all the Lost Twenty, Dooku was considered the most bitter loss because of his strength in the Force. This is an obvious statement that his strength in the Force superceded any of the previous nineteen lost Jedi - I don't know if Kun's one of them, or not, but I'd imagine so.

Either way, Dooku was one of the very most gifted swordsmen and Force users in the Order's history. Books such as Dark Rendezvous, Labyrinth of Evil, and the RotS novelization make that point very, very clear.

Yoda is the most powerful of Jedi. He should be able to destroy Nihilus.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Look Lightsnake!

Yoda's Raw Power is much greater then that of Nihilus.

I believe that Yoda is over-all more powerful then Nihilus.

But Nihilus has still demonstrated more mastery in the Force then him.
How so, though?

Legend, this isn't true. It's a drain like any other ability. Yoda's own mastery and possible Fallanassi abilities would save him.
I am. However, 'Nihilus owns all because his technique was unbeatable 4 years ago' is faulty

Originally posted by Gideon
About the statements regarding Dooku, yes, Count Dooku was considered "the Order's greatest loss". The complete visual guide says that of all the Lost Twenty, Dooku was considered the most bitter loss because of his strength in the Force. This is an obvious statement that his strength in the Force superceded any of the previous nineteen lost Jedi - I don't know if Kun's one of them, or not, but I'd imagine so.

Either way, Dooku was one of the very most gifted swordsmen and Force users in the Order's history. Books such as Dark Rendezvous, Labyrinth of Evil, and the RotS novelization make that point very, very clear.


Did you post in the wrong section Escape?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How so, though?

Legend, this isn't true. It's a drain like any other ability. Yoda's own mastery and possible Fallanassi abilities would save him.
I am. However, 'Nihilus owns all because his technique was unbeatable 4 years ago' is faulty

Yoda's own mastery won't save him because that term is so damn ridiculous that it shouldn't even be used. "OH Yoda will own Guy X because of his Force Mastery". What the hell does that even mean? IF he knows the looping ability(which there is no proof for that), he can defeat Nihilus. If not, which is more likely, he better move fast.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Did you post in the wrong section Escape?

Nope.

Last page, you had a brief chat about Dooku > Kun. And the Order seems to think Dooku was the greater loss.

I suppose but you forget that Kun left the Jedi order as a padawan and came back a lot stronger, so I highly doubt Kun being a loss as a padawan has any bearing on Dooku>Kun or vice versa.

I don't think they measure loss by what someone was when they actually left the Order.

It's very likely Kun was a member of the Lost Twenty, along with Xendor, Darth Ruin and the others

Well, I don't see where they even mentioned Kun and the Jedi Order itself, which means they either didn't write that much on Kun, or nobody knew of him as a Padawan.

He was the most skilled padawan-it;s implied he was a knight as was- of Vodo-Siosk Baas....that's still a member of the Order.
Darth Ruin and Xendor were the same

I wonder how in the 25,000 year history of the Jedi order, there were only 20 lost.

Voluntary leavings. They were usually masters who resigned their commision

Falling to the darkside isn't quite the same thing though, Kun wouldn't count, and he was a padawan anyway, The Lost 20 only refers to actual jedi (Knights and Masters).

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How so, though?
We all know that Nihilus had kept the broken Ravager Ship intact and flying in the space through sheer Force of his will. This was Telekinetic ability actually and was more impressive then Yoda throwing a Pod or holding off a Crane.

Then his Force Drain ability was so immense that he could Drain an entire World from the Force and Life.

Then he could also Force Stun multiple opponents.

So, overall he has demonstrated more mastery in the Force.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Legend, this isn't true. It's a drain like any other ability. Yoda's own mastery and possible Fallanassi abilities would save him.
I am. However, 'Nihilus owns all because his technique was unbeatable 4 years ago' is faulty
No! Nihilus's Drain is more powerful then any other Drain. His Drain can destroy buildings and structures as evident from Katarr. So his Drain does more damage then Draining Life from others.

Yoda does not canonically knows Fallanassi Looping techniques. Luke however learns this much later.

My personal Opinion on Nihilus and KOTOR II: I hate Nihilus actually but Obsidian developed this monster and put a good dent on Star Wars.

GL's Star Wars was so pure and good and the EU has ruined it badly.

Obsidian should not be allowed to make an another KOTOR game.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
We all know that Nihilus had kept the broken Ravager Ship intact and flying in the space through sheer Force of his will. This was Telekinetic ability actually and was more impressive then Yoda throwing a Pod or holding off a Crane.
Legend, do you read the EU? Yoda has lifted up guns the size of houses on his back and tossed around capital ships

So? Palp was even stronger

Hardly, Joruus C'Baoth did that technique to a great extent


No! His drain is the same. as shown with the Thought bomb, a dying world causes many tremors and environmental effects, that's all!

Yoda knew the fallanassi well, actually.

I agree

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Legend, do you read the EU? Yoda has lifted up guns the size of houses on his back and tossed around capital ships
Any powerful Jedi can lift heavy objects. It is no surprise to me that Yoda could do that.

I however do not know that Yoda could toss around Capital Ships. If this is true then Nihilus and Yoda are equal in regards of Telekinesis.

However I would like to see a direct source for this claim to make up my mind.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
So? Palp was even stronger
No! Nihilus was the baddest with the Drain. Palp had not done what Nihilus had did. Nihilus not just consumed Katarr but many other worlds as well.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Hardly, Joruus C'Baoth did that technique to a great extent
But I am talking about Yoda here who has not demonstrated this ability in the movies.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No! His drain is the same. as shown with the Thought bomb, a dying world causes many tremors and environmental effects, that's all!
I don't remember that Force Drain of other Sith (apart from Nihilus) could destroy the buildings. So my point stands.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yoda knew the fallanassi well, actually.
If you can provide a direct proof then it would be good.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I agree
Yeah actually!

Even the Luke based EU stories have become less interesting now. Now they are trying to make Jacen a Sith Lord as well. Nice move to prolong a story. Does anyone stops falling to Dark Side and learn from mistakes of others?

And original KOTOR was so much plain and better. I think that Bioware have done much better job over-all. They should be allowed to do the next KOTOR project, if it is in the plans.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Any powerful Jedi can lift heavy objects. It is no surprise to me that Yoda could do that.

I however do not know that Yoda could toss around Capital Ships. If this is true then Nihilus and Yoda are equal in regards of Telekinesis.

Yeah, there's a difference there.

CW Adventures. Check out volume 3, too, where Yoda lifts a massive gun on his back


Palp drained worlds, too


In the EU, it's different


Legend, LISTEN: When you drain the world, it causes tremors and earthquakes, that's it

Blac Fleet Crisis


I agree again. Though Jacen's fall is actualy good

And at the very end, there's very little proof that Yoda new the special fallanassi technique despite what lightsnake is saying about Yoda knowing them.

You mean Yoda knowing the Fallanassi personally?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Yoda

I know Wookie isn't exactly the most reliable thing in the world, but I kinda find it interesting that it doesn't list the Black Fleet Crisis as a source that Yoda is mentioned in...

Could you maybe give a direct quote that proves that they were acquainted?

Perhaps you shouldn't use SW Wiki as a source? Especially when it doesn't list a single book as a Yoda source when he's mentioned in numerous ones? Seriously, does it seem strange to you that Yoda isn't mentioned in ANY books under those sources ones?

Well I could check, do you know what is said, or where abouts it is said?

Wialu just tells Luke The Fallanassi knew the Jedi of old and was saddened by their passing? She's also saddened at Yoda's passing

In Courtship of Princess Leia, Mother Rell says she knew Yoda centuries ago

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Wialu just tells Luke The Fallanassi knew the Jedi of old and was saddened by their passing? She's also saddened at Yoda's passing

In Courtship of Princess Leia, Mother Rell says she knew Yoda centuries ago


Ok lightsnake, but does that in any way equate to him knowing the Fallanassi technique? OF course not. I can just as easily say "Well Jacen knew Luke personally", but does that mean Luke taught him the emerald lightning? Of course not, it's all speculation, and not logical.

You mean someone as knowledgable and knowledge seeking as Yoda who spent his entire life fighting the Dark Side wouldn't benefit from that?

I suppose Jacen was just boozing with the Fallanassi when HE visited them

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You mean someone as knowledgable and knowledge seeking as Yoda who spent his entire life fighting the Dark Side wouldn't benefit from that?

I suppose Jacen was just boozing with the Fallanassi when HE visited them


And yet again you're missing the point. There is NO proof that Yoda learned the looping technique from them. There's not even logical deduction for it either as I've just stated. Jacen also learned from Luke Skywalker but he still doesn't know techniques X, Y, Z, etc. So you saying "Oh Yoda knew 1 fallanassi MAYBE so he MUST know the technique" is both invalid, and illogical.

Isn't emerald lightning just a nickname given to Luke's incredible grasp of electric judgement, 'cause Jacen knows electric judgement, and so the analogy doesn't apply.

No, it's a better technique that would be classified as an instakill. Luke also has force lightning but they are two different things mind you. And the Jacen learning from the Fallanassi analogy is also invalid, considering Jacen went on a 5 year hiatus JUST to study ALL the aspects of the force.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And yet again you're missing the point. There is NO proof that Yoda learned the looping technique from them. There's not even logical deduction for it either as I've just stated. Jacen also learned from Luke Skywalker but he still doesn't know techniques X, Y, Z, etc. So you saying "Oh Yoda knew 1 fallanassi MAYBE so he MUST know the technique" is both invalid, and illogical.
Ther'es a logical basis for it and that's what is required.
Yoda spent his life learning technqiues and fighting the Dark Side. He consulted Sith holocrons to discover their techniques and how to fight the,

He was clsoe to the Fallanassi so it's likely he learned from them as well. Especially when you consider what Tholme could do and the nature of Vaapad has with the loops

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Ther'es a logical basis for it and that's what is required.
Yoda spent his life learning technqiues and fighting the Dark Side. He consulted Sith holocrons to discover their techniques and how to fight the,

He was clsoe to the Fallanassi so it's likely he learned from them as well. Especially when you consider what Tholme could do and the nature of Vaapad has with the loops

There is no logical basis for your argument lightsnake. Now if you were to say "Sidious more than likely knows the looping technique because he has come across the fallanassi", then it has a logical basis, because Sidious hungered for power and studied every aspect of the force. Yoda spent 900 years studying but wasn't hellbent on knowing every aspect of the force, so if Yoda ever DID come across a Fallanassi, there's no reason to think "Oh that means he knows technique X, Y, and Z".

Yoda wasn't hellbent on knowing every aspect, but he was dedicated to fighting the Darkside and preserving the light. The Fallanassi ways, The White Current, were sought after and extremely valuable.
Yoda did not just 'come across them', he knew them very well. His Order were friends to the Fallanassi and Yoda was apparently personal friends wthWialu

Yoda was a great teacher AND learner. He never missed an opportunity to do either.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yoda wasn't hellbent on knowing every aspect, but he was dedicated to fighting the Darkside and preserving the light. The Fallanassi ways, The White Current, were sought after and extremely valuable.
Yoda did not just 'come across them', he knew them very well. His Order were friends to the Fallanassi and Yoda was apparently personal friends wthWialu

Yoda was a great teacher AND learner. He never missed an opportunity to do either.


Your argument is based on biased speculation. You assume that he wanted their knowledge, you assume that he knew them well, etc. So by your logic, he knew force lightning, Sidious' instakill, etc. Seriously lightsnake no offense, but you don't have an argument. You, one again, have speculation based on bias.

No, I assume Yoda, who loved learning and knowledge above all else, would have taken the chance to learn and teach. The Fallanassi were servants of the light side and Yoda learned all he could on that front
Again: Yoda would never learn Force lightning or a dark side technique because it goes against his principles. He learned how to defend against those.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, I assume Yoda, who loved learning and knowledge above all else, would have taken the chance to learn and teach. The Fallanassi were servants of the light side and Yoda learned all he could on that front
Again: Yoda would never learn Force lightning or a dark side technique because it goes against his principles. He learned how to defend against those.

Ok then get a third party into this debate so we don't have an episode from this morning. Someone unbiased like Escape. I stand by the fact that your argument is speculatory and biased.

Yeah, I'd actually say there's sufficient proof to assume that Yoda would know of this looping technique, but it would be nice if someone could explain a bit about the technique here.

Surely. I'm talking to escape now

The visual guide seems to imply it: "a great traveler in his younger years, Yoda has visited hundreds of worlds on his own, spending years learning different lifeways and appreciating the Force." I'd say that if he met up with the Falanassi, it is logical to assume that he would attempt to learn from them.

how logical is it to assume that he did learn it? And how would you use this "logical speculation" as you call it, in this debate? And where does it say that he knew the Fallanassi well, and not just ran into one?

The Black Fleet trilogy shows Wialu and Yoda knew one another on a personal level.

It fits in with things, including Yoda's sojourns to Dathomir. Given Yoa's love of learning, it does fit in

Originally posted by Lightsnake
The Black Fleet trilogy shows Wialu and Yoda knew one another on a personal level.

It fits in with things, including Yoda's sojourns to Dathomir. Given Yoa's love of learning, it does fit in


Lightsnake you REALLY need to learn how to argue objectively, because while I like Yoda and think he pwns, it's very illogical for me to assume that just because he met 1 fallanassi, that he studied with the fallanassi and learned a specific technique. That's just unwarranted speculation.

Again: She was the leader of the Fallanassi. The implication is that he was with their society as a whole, too

Why is that an implication lightsnake? Does the society all travel together to places? Is there evidence of Yoda visiting their homeworld? No, it's all biased speculation that cannot be used in a logical debate.

Huh? The Fallanassi are a society that remained in one place until the Rise of the Empire....they're not exactly nomadic.

Well it's not like Yoda just goes around making friends, it's likely that Yoda sought the Fallanasi out (Lightsnake provided some good reasons why he would go out of his way to do so), studied under them, and from that, built a friendship with their leader.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Huh? The Fallanassi are a society that remained in one place until the Rise of the Empire....they're not exactly nomadic.

You are assuming Yoda visited their homeworld. What's more logical is he met a fallanassi somewhere. Again this is all speculation that can't be used in a debate. I can give plenty of examples of logical speculation but this isn't part of it.

How? Escape posted that, in his youth, Yoda was a great traveller. We know he met the Witches of Dathomir, and e know the Fallanassi knew him before they were nomadic.

What's more likely: The great traveller who loved knowledge and learning travelled to see the Fallanassi and buiilt up a friendship, or he ran into the LEADER somewhere else, when they're of a very stationary society?

Sexy, it's pretty unlikely that Yoda would have made friends with the leader of the Fallanasi without originally having sought them out for their teachings. Though, I suppose, there's always the chance that they were drinking buddies.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
How? Escape posted that, in his youth, Yoda was a great traveller. We know he met the Witches of Dathomir, and e know the Fallanassi knew him before they were nomadic.
No, you are assuming Yoda met a fallanassi before they had travel capabilities, then you're assuming that he learned their force abilities. The second assumption is more logical than the first one but in the end they're both speculation and can't be used in a debate.



Or he happened to meet a Fallanassi and...Yea that's it. See? I can make a speculation too. Yet at the end, there's still no evidence that Yoda can defend against Nihilus drain/consumption.

So, the grandmaster of the jedi order and the leader of a mysterious force organisation just randomly met, through coincidence? Right...

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No, you are assuming Yoda met a fallanassi before they had travel capabilities, then you're assuming that he learned their force abilities. The second assumption is more logical than the first one but in the end they're both speculation and can't be used in a debate.
They always had travel capabilities. It's pointed out in no uncertain terms they are NOT travellers and were stationary until the Empire rose.
Learn that logical basis covers for speculation.



Which is likelier? Seriously now

Originally posted by Lightsnake
They always had travel capabilities. It's pointed out in no uncertain terms they are NOT travellers and were stationary until the Empire rose.
Learn that logical basis covers for speculation.



Which is likelier? Seriously now


Which is more likely you mean? I would say that he randomly met a Fallanassi and that is it. Logical basis covers LOGICAL speculation, based on logical deduction. What YOU are doing is biased speculation based on nothing. You're just throwing out random hypothetical situations that would make Yoda look better. That's BIAS lightsnake, when will you ever understand this?

Honestly?
Wow...

Um yea? What in the world makes you think he met 1 fallanassi, then traveled to their world, then learned the looping technique? Anymore ridiculous speculation? I suppose I should go ahead and say that Marka Ragnos knew all the ancient sith techniques because he was THE DLOTS of the ancient sith and all the techniques that were created, were created by them. See that illogical speculation?

I'm saying Yoda travelled to their world, at the time when they were friends to the Order and learned from them, as it's said he did before in the quote Escape provided.

This isn't ridiculous speculation. Shall we get other opinions?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
I'm saying Yoda travelled to their world, at the time when they were friends to the Order and learned from them, as it's said he did before in the quote Escape provided.

This isn't ridiculous speculation. Shall we get other opinions?

yes I think it's ridiculous speculation without ANY proof whatsoever. Bring Advent or Escape in.

Sexy, I'm not saying that Yoda knew the techniques. I'm saying that there is more evidence to support that he did know it than evidence that he didn't. The complete visual guide seems to make it quite clear that he traveled for centuries learning the ways of the Force. Considering how Yoda is a teacher first and foremost, it would be out of his character to not seek knowledge - like Sidious. Except, of course, he wouldn't conquer the galaxy or raze planets for the sake of it.

So you are saying that because he traveled for centuries and happened to meet a Fallanassi, that it's more than likely he went to their home planet and learned their technique? I still find that far fetched speculation that doesn't help a debate.

Again: The Fallanassi had their own society where they stayed on in one world: It's more likely Yoda arrived there. He didn't HAPPEN to meet one, he was well acquainted with their LEADER

And why not? Yoda was familiar with the Wookies of Kashyyk, familiar with the royalty of Gannathan (King Empatojayos Brand), familiar with natives of Dathomir, was part of a Jedi vessel called the Chu'unthor which probably traveled to other plants for Jedi training, familiar with Thustra royalty (King Thustra). I don't see why he didn't visit the Fallanassi and learned stuff from them.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Again: The Fallanassi had their own society where they stayed on in one world: It's more likely Yoda arrived there. He didn't HAPPEN to meet one, he was well acquainted with their LEADER

Maybe, maybe not, yet as it stands, Yoda has no defense for Nihilus' attack. What you speak of is speculation. I happen to think there's no proof that he visited their homeworld and learned their force techniques.

Umm, YES there is: Because the STATIONARY society that does not leave their homeworld except in times of peril knew Yoda, who often visited other places to study the Force visited them and was well acquainted with them

And why not, they had considerable Force knowledge. Wouldn't Yoda, the scholor, the wise one, willing to be an apprentice, care to learn these techniques??

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Umm, YES there is: Because the STATIONARY society that does not leave their homeworld except in times of peril knew Yoda, who often visited other places to study the Force visited them and was well acquainted with them

You are SPECULATING that because he SAW a fallanassi once or twice and BECAUSE in his early age he visited planets, that the TWO are somehow connected because it somehow helps your case. It does NOT work that way lightsnake.

Once or Twice? He was a close friend of their leader and was well known to them!
This wasn't in early age, either. He'd have had to do it more than once.

Want me to get Escape again?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Once or Twice? He was a close friend of their leader and was well known to them!
This wasn't in early age, either. He'd have had to do it more than once.

Want me to get Escape again?

Sure sure go ahead. Yet he himself said it was speculation. Meanwhile prove that he did it more than once. Of course you can't so you're going to speculate objectively. Also prove he was well known to them. Since you can't.... You see where this is going?

It's speculation but it's GOOD speculation, it's LOGICAL speculation, it has logic backing it completely.

Read between the lines.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
It's speculation but it's GOOD speculation, it's LOGICAL speculation, it has logic backing it completely.

Read between the lines.


No, you're taking something far fetched, adding in hypothetical situations in which your argument would be logical, and calling it "logical speculation".