Batdude's Third Round Tourney Draft

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King_Mungi
This is the third round for the tourney.

Category:
Anyone under Thanos.

Order of the drafts:
Free for all.

Teams:
Bran/Darthgoober
pr/Rewmac
Digi/Scoobs
Souja/MM
Roldz/Nino
trolly/KK
DL/Lucid
BW/DC

DigiMark007
Digi and Scoob select Thor

darthgoober
Silver SUrfer

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Silver_Surfer

Scoobless
Damn ... that was fast

Blair Wind
Our team character will be, The Keeper:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Surfer#Guardians_of_the_Galaxy
http://www.answers.com/Silver%20Surfer

pr1983
Kyle Rayner GL...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Rayner

Scoobless
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Our team character will be, The Keeper:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Surfer#Guardians_of_the_Galaxy
http://www.answers.com/Silver%20Surfer

He's already banned ... I discussed him with BD a while back

Devil Lance
my team drafts

Shaman Nate Grey
http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/showquestion.asp?faq=10&fldAuto=73

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Scoobless
He's already banned ... I discussed him with BD a while back

I told him about him too. He said go for it smile

No reason for him to be banned anyways erm

Rewmac
We'll take Parallax if Surfer is allowed...

If not then Kyle Rayner...

pr told you to get on MSN big grin

Scoobless
Originally posted by Blair Wind
*I* discussed him with BD. He said go for it smile

Besides we have all his appearances.....whatever made up notion KMC has made of him is really false erm

Like the time he beats and almost kills Galactus.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Scoobless
Like the time he beats and almost kills Galactus.

Didnt he proclaim to be at his weakest ever? Hmmm....hasnt thor done about the same? Godblast and all?

plus Galactus got fed up and blasted him.

DigiMark007
Surfer + Quantum Bands = over Thanos. And the fact that he could nearly kill Big G in any form is proof enough. Hell, Thanos blasted him when Big G was weak and it only pissed him off, even though it sent him flying back.

King_Mungi
Tend to agree, Keeper should be banned.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Surfer + Quantum Bands = over Thanos. And the fact that he could nearly kill Big G in any form is proof enough. Hell, Thanos blasted him when Big G was weak and it only pissed him off, even though it sent him flying back.

Take Surfer and take Quasar and have them fight thanos. Thanos would still win erm

.....Im sorry but this doesnt look like he nearly killed Galactus:
Ill find the scan in a second. Galactus basically said shut up, blasted him and that was the end of the struggle
http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/1852/gog1yk1.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4033/gog2kw6.jpg

besides the Guardians of the Galaxy were giving him trouble. And they were a bunch of nobodies erm

pr1983
Originally posted by Rewmac
We'll take Parallax if Surfer is allowed...

If not then Kyle Rayner...

pr told you to get on MSN big grin

yeah, actually what he said...

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Take Surfer and take Quasar and have them fight thanos. Thanos would still win erm

.....Im sorry but this doesnt look like he nearly killed Galactus:
Ill find the scan in a second. Galactus basically said shut up, blasted him and that was the end of the struggle

besides the Guardians of the Galaxy were giving him trouble. And they were a bunch of nobodies erm

Is this 616 Surfer still? Or is it an alternate dimension or somesuch?

King_Mungi
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Is this 616 Surfer still? Or is it an alternate dimension or somesuch?

Alternate reality set in the 31st century (Earth-691). It's still Norrin Radd though

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Take Surfer and take Quasar and have them fight thanos. Thanos would still win erm

.....Im sorry but this doesnt look like he nearly killed Galactus:
Ill find the scan in a second. Galactus basically said shut up, blasted him and that was the end of the struggle
http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/1852/gog1yk1.jpg
http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4033/gog2kw6.jpg

besides the Guardians of the Galaxy were giving him trouble. And they were a bunch of nobodies erm


So you can see the scans...


anyways its 616 surfer for the most part. Its not a total alternate reality. Basically the timeline went two different ways. They even reference regular 616 continuity. Here this scan should explain it:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3342/guardiansofthegalaxy241kg1.jpg

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Blair Wind
So you can see the scans...


anyways its 616 surfer for the most part. Its not a total alternate reality. Basically the timeline went two different ways. They even reference regular 616 continuity. Here this scan should explain it:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3342/guardiansofthegalaxy241kg1.jpg

So he has all the same experiences of 616 Surfer, but diverged into something else, right?

King_Mungi
Originally posted by DigiMark007
So he has all the same experiences of 616 Surfer, but diverged into something else, right?

Right, he's still 616 Surfer but older and more powerful.

Rewmac
What about Parallax?

Blair Wind
Parallax? no expression

Him and thanos fought (yea yea non canon) but they made them stalemate did they not? I guess thats the only indication we have.

Rewmac
Thanos is over Parallax...

DigiMark007
Dunno. He seems to get talked up way past Skyfather on the forums though. I see a lot of "Well, the Corps loses unless they have Parallax/Ion. Then they win easy." So I just assumed he'd be banned.

Blair Wind
I would not think that, Rew erm

Parallax PWND everyone. Everyone.

Rewmac
So did Thanos big grin Maybe Parallax is bit much...Hmmm....Then we gotta take Hal or Kyle I suppose....

DigiMark007
...well you already have Kyle, so you're set unless you want to switch.

But hell, Parallax punked a bunch of people, including a few that are near Skyfather anyway. We can't really tell but it seems kinda cheap.

batdude123
Keeper = thumb down

Validus
FYI: The Thanos/Parallax crossover fight was after Spectre stole a massive load of power from Parallax in Zero Hour.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Validus
FYI: The Thanos/Parallax crossover fight was after Spectre stole a massive load of power from Parallax in Zero Hour.

Thanks Val. I think we can safely nix Parallax then too.

...

Also, we don't have an updated list with links and such. Here's the second draft for anyone feeling ducky enough to put it together.

smile

King_Mungi
Batdude can do it when ever he appears smile

Rewmac
We want to switch to Hal Jordan and it's final...

DigiMark007
Bio?

DigiMark007
Here's the most updated we have:

i]Originally posted by ExodusCloak
This list more accurate? Includes Round 2 Choices...

BW / DC - Black Alice
Lucid Lui / DevilLance - Quasar
trolly / King Kandy - Fallen One
Roldz/Nino - Superman Blue
Souja/ MartianMind - Dr Light
Digi / Scoob - Adam Warlock
PR/Rewmac-Vulcan(Darwin) (Superman the current/post crisis/non-energy version)
Bran / Darthgoober - Earth X Absorbing Man Despero

DigiMark007
More additions...but I'm not doing anymore.

BW / DC -
Black Alice

Lucid Lui / DevilLance -
Quasar
X-Man

trolly / King Kandy -
Fallen One

Roldz/Nino -
Superman Blue

Souja/ MartianMind -
Dr Light

Digi / Scoob -
Digi: Adam Warlock
Scoob: Majestic
Both: Thor

PR/Rewmac-
Vulcan(Darwin)
(Superman the current/post crisis/non-energy version)
Hal Jordan

Bran / Darthgoober -
Earth X Absorbing Man
Despero
Surfer

Newjak
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Digi and Scoob select Thor Haha someone picked Thor before SS or GL thats great because I don't remember him going until like the second or third round last Tourny

pr1983
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Bio?

stick out tongue

Hal Jordan bio...

http://comicbooks.about.com/od/greenlantern/p/glhaljordan.htm

or even...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Jordan

happy now? stick out tongue

ahem...

BW / DC - Black Alice
Lucid Lui / DevilLance - Quasar
trolly / King Kandy - Fallen One
Roldz/Nino - Superman Blue
Souja/ MartianMind - Dr Light
Digi / Scoob - Adam Warlock
PR/Rewmac-Vulcan(Darwin) Superman (the current/post crisis/non-energy version)
Bran / Darthgoober - Earth X Absorbing Man Despero

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Newjak
Haha someone picked Thor before SS or GL thats great because I don't remember him going until like the second or third round last Tourny

True (he went middle 2nd round)...but there's a reason Thor made it to the finals in that tourney.

wink

I'm honestly surprised others weren't after him (or maybe they were and they're just hiding it stick out tongue ). I know goober has been talking him up and adding to his respect thread recently a bunch, and BRB/Thor seemed to be getting a lot of attention in the draft discussion recently.

P.S. I added the Hal bio to the one I have up there....that's the most current we have.

Newjak
Originally posted by DigiMark007
True (he went middle 2nd round)...but there's a reason Thor made it to the finals in that tourney.

wink I agree it was just he got passed up by so many people last tourny heck Magneto went before Thor I'm just glad he got some better props in this tournies draft.

Validus
Originally posted by DigiMark007
True (he went middle 2nd round)...but there's a reason Thor made it to the finals in that tourney.

wink

Is there a reason he lost? stick out tongue

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Validus
Is there a reason he lost? stick out tongue

Poor supporting cast, and under-utilization.

stick out tongue

Actually, as I remember it, they were trying to do a million things with Thor in that fight, because they were boned without him, and the judges didn't buy that Thor could carry that much weight even though he was doing most of the "heavy lifting" per se.

Newjak
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Poor supporting cast, and under-utilization.

stick out tongue

Actually, as I remember it, they were trying to do a million things with Thor in that fight, because they were boned without him, and the judges didn't buy that Thor could carry that much weight even though he was doing most of the "heavy lifting" per se. Pretty much heck if I knew about the prep limits I probably would have taken Thor before Juggernaut and then we would have been a hell of a team to beat

DarkCrawler
About Keeper. Galactus was at his weakest EVER. He even states so himself.
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/7964/guardiansofthegalaxy251qw2.jpg

And directly after that, he states that he would have never done that if Galactus was not so weak.
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/585/guardiansofthegalaxy253hp4.jpg

And what happens when Galactus isn't weak? Keeper gets pwned in one blast.
http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/7946/kep1vl9.jpg

And when Keeper attacked Galactus, he needed Guardians help. And Galactus was too weak to even DEFEND against him. Could not even raise a hand in defense.

He's fine. Considering that BD Ok'd the pick, it is unfair to do this at the Third Draft when we aren't ready. I want to see some reasons for the banning besides "he is too powerful".

Oh, and when Thanos blasted Galactus, he had just fed days ago. Not to mention Thanos's Tyrant and Odin fights.

Roldz
3rd draft is free for all? NOOOO!! too late.. all the ones i wanted taken.
1st draft Superman Blue
2nd Draft Union
3rd Void

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Roldz
3rd draft is free for all? NOOOO!! too late.. all the ones i wanted taken.
1st draft Superman Blue
2nd Draft Union
3rd Void

Take another good GL or something. Kyle's available. So's BRB if you were interested in Thor.

Howard_Jones
Use BRB. He's a great pick.

Validus
There's a lot of good picks left, most pretty obvious. Seems like some people are just picking the most powerful characters possible while trying to argue they're under Thanos (Mangog?).

DarkCrawler
There is lot of gaps between guys like Thanos and guys like Surfer. Mangog might be stronger then Thanos, but in overall power he is left behind, so he fits in that gap. Same with AS Superman, or Keeper.

Validus
Uh huh

What I'm getting at is most of upper guys drafted thus far have been considered Thanos level for all my time on this forum yet when draft time comes everyone and their mother is under Thanos. Shit, we just saw Parallax pitched in this thread.

DarkCrawler
yes
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9686/fight171eo0.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/716/fight172sz5.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6882/fight173uk9.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6044/fight174kv3.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3100/fight175ru8.jpg

DigiMark007
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
yes
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/9686/fight171eo0.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/716/fight172sz5.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6882/fight173uk9.jpg
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/6044/fight174kv3.jpg
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3100/fight175ru8.jpg

Is that Keeper? Or just regular Surfer?

Anyway, I agree. It's kind of a shame that there's lots of people that most of us would consider too cheap and/or powerful to be under Thanos, yet they keep getting picked and argued for. I can understand wanting to do well in the drafts, but re-writing forum hierarchy every time there's a tourney is a little maddening.

Still, there's a lot to be said for just having a good plan and powerful characters who are also versatile. We have good answers for most of the "uber" picks so I'm honestly not too worried....even though there's going to be some great battles.

Blair Wind
Thats regular SS

leonidas
Originally posted by DigiMark007
More additions...but I'm not doing anymore.

BW / DC -
Black Alice

Lucid Lui / DevilLance -
Quasar
X-Man

trolly / King Kandy -
Fallen One

Roldz/Nino -
Superman Blue

Souja/ MartianMind -
Dr Light

Digi / Scoob -
Digi: Adam Warlock
Scoob: Majestic
Both: Thor

PR/Rewmac-
Vulcan(Darwin)
(Superman the current/post crisis/non-energy version)
Hal Jordan

Bran / Darthgoober -
Earth X Absorbing Man
Despero
Surfer

why do so many teams have only 1 pick? and the only pick i've seen that is certainly out of the range of this tourney is parallax. keeper is pushing it, and i'd likely say he's too powerful, but bats already nixed him, i think. some VERY interesting teams . . .

Blair Wind
The odds thread has a better list.

and were working on the Keeper still. smile

Soujaboy
Souja/Martian Mind: Beta Ray Bill

http://marvel.com/universe/Beta_Ray_Bill

King KAM
if someone is stuck on picks they can PM i have a few good ones in mind

bigbran
Originally posted by Validus
FYI: The Thanos/Parallax crossover fight was after Spectre stole a massive load of power from Parallax in Zero Hour. Thanos also got a massive powerup from Oa too.
Kyle ended up beating both Thanos and Parallax in one attack... no expression

DigiMark007
Originally posted by King KAM
if someone is stuck on picks they can PM i have a few good ones in mind

Thanks for throwing that out there Kam. thumb up

...

I think we have, what, two more picks to go?

trolly_crouchjr
Graviton

DarkCrawler
Well...I'd think that Graviton is more 1th round type pick. erm But I don't object if you get him here anyway...

DigiMark007
Originally posted by trolly_crouchjr
Graviton

I love that it's just a name. No "We pick...", no bio, etc.

But I have no problem with him either.

DigiMark007
K, so Roldz/Nino are the only team left....except for the picks that are still under scrutiny. If I remember, BD's last ruling was " thumb down " to Keeper. And I'm not sure we ever got a firm ok on EXAM and Mangog, even though we've kinda been assuming that they're still around.

DarkCrawler
Batdude okay'd Keeper when we asked him prior to the draft, so he better have a pretty damn good reason why he suddenly bans him. Really unfair that we would need to suddenly find another pick when other good ones are already taken. Keeper is under Thanos.

Scoobless
Keeper is not under Thanos.

He beat the hell out of Galactus ... weakened state or not, Thanos has never shown that level of power without some cosmic add-ons.

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8017/guardiansofthegalaxy253kh2.th.jpg http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/3090/guardiansofthegalaxy253xw4.th.jpg

And so what if Galactus beat him later ... it was immediately after he'd just ate a planet.... there's no way you can be using that to say he's less than Thanos.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Scoobless
Keeper is not under Thanos.

He beat the hell out of Galactus ... weakened state or not, Thanos has never shown that level of power without some cosmic add-ons.

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8017/guardiansofthegalaxy253kh2.th.jpg http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/3090/guardiansofthegalaxy253xw4.th.jpg

And so what if Galactus beat him later ... it was immediately after he'd just ate a planet.... there's no way you can be using that to say he's less than Thanos.

"You could have never done this if I was not in such debilitated state." Galactus has NEVER, in any continuity, been that weak. If one blasts takes him out (blast that can't be above Quasar/Surfer since Surfer is identical to the 616 one and has the exact same bands)

Thanos is already able to do this to Galactus that that was not like 1/10000th of his power:
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1365/energy291ol2.jpg

Was able to have mental battle for pages against Galactus of same power:
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9950/energy281yz9.jpg
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4827/energy282jp2.jpg
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4483/energy283sy8.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4251/energy284sb8.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/8898/energy285od2.jpg

Was able to, with his forcefield, take powerful blast from Galactus (Whereas Keeper got taken down with ease):
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6706/energy31uw6.jpg

Was able to shield people from being that was STRONGER then Galactus:
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5219/energy25iz7.jpg

Was able to hurt the said being with a blast:
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/1275/energy26rt2.jpg

Was able to survive attack from the same being (which was FAR stronger attack then the one against Keeper):
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3969/durability71an1.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7756/durability72rw7.jpg

Keeper still has offensive and defensive power less then Thanos. Those were just direct Galactus comparisions, I have entire Respect thread worth of Thanos stuff to prove my point.

Keeper is under Thanos.

Soljer
I agree that Keeper is under Thanos.

But isn't he, more or less, Surfer with the Quantum bands? Or am I mistaken?

Wouldn't that be like trying to draft "Superman with a Green Lantern ring," and arguing that he's still under Thanos level?

Wouldn't the keeper make anyone that drafter the Surfer or Quasar at an INCREDIBLE - RIDICULOUS - INTENSE disadvantage?

Meh.

I'm surprised no one drafted exiles' Surfer. He was a bit intense.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Soljer
I agree that Keeper is under Thanos.

But isn't he, more or less, Surfer with the Quantum bands? Or am I mistaken?

Wouldn't that be like trying to draft "Superman with a Green Lantern ring," and arguing that he's still under Thanos level?

Wouldn't the keeper make anyone that drafter the Surfer or Quasar at an INCREDIBLE - RIDICULOUS - INTENSE disadvantage?

Meh.

I'm surprised no one drafted exiles' Surfer. He was a bit intense.

He's had the bands for years and multiple comics, they are part of his character as much as they are to the likes of Quasar or Marvel Boy.

By the way, here is Keeper getting beaten by Galactus who is at his normal levels.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1193/guardiansofthegalaxy250pl3.jpg

The weakened Galactus, by the way, had not fed for five hundred years, so he was VERY weak.

leonidas
500 years? blink

really? where was that stated? i have the issue. am i simply forgetting that . . . confused

DarkCrawler
The timeframe between the first meeting of Keeper and Guardians and second meeting is five hundred years, wasn't it. After the first meeting Keeper went against Galactus, but got pwned. I'm pretty sure it was stated that Galactus had not fed since that meeting (something about him never having a herald again - and heralds find the planets for him, right?).

I can be wrong, though, but it was obvious that the Galactus showed there was REALLY weak.

Scoobless
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
By the way, here is Keeper getting beaten by Galactus who is at his normal levels.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/1193/guardiansofthegalaxy250pl3.jpg

Normal? his normal showings are when "the hunger is upon him" ... that scans was immediately after he'd eaten a freakin' planet .... he'd have done the same or worse to Thanos at that level.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Scoobless
Normal? his normal showings are when "the hunger is upon him" ... that scans was immediately after he'd eaten a freakin' planet .... he'd have done the same or worse to Thanos at that level.

Still doesn't take away all the other Thanos stuff I posted against Galactus and stronger version of Galactus. And Thanos defenitely would not have been owned by a flick of an finger. Keeper is still under Thanos.

Do I need to collect all the showings of weakened Thanos to prove this? I remember guys like FF hurting him while he is weak...

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Was able to hurt the said being with a blast:
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/1275/energy26rt2.jpg How is he hurt?

"annoyance"

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
How is he hurt?

"annoyance"

Well, enough to at least make it angry. Obviously it felt it.

Anyway, like I said before...Thanos has higher level of offensive and defensive power then Keeper has (Considering that Thanos >>>> Quasar & Surfer).

Lucid Lui
How good is Keeper with the Quantum Bands?

DarkCrawler
At least Quasar level. He was taught by Aron to their full potential, I remember it being said...Quasar is probably a bit stronger, though, considering the feats he has done (like beating four previous QB wearers at once), but not far stronger, I would assume.

Soljer
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
At least Quasar level. He was taught by Aron to their full potential, I remember it being said...Quasar is probably a bit stronger, though, considering the feats he has done (like beating four previous QB wearers at once), but not far stronger, I would assume.

Wait, isn't this the SILVER SURFER with the Quantum Bands? Not Norrin Radd with the Quantum Bands? Unless I'm mistaken, doesn't he have the entirety of the quantum zone PLUS power cosmic at his disposal?

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Soljer
Wait, isn't this the SILVER SURFER with the Quantum Bands? Not Norrin Radd with the Quantum Bands? Unless I'm mistaken, doesn't he have the entirety of the quantum zone PLUS power cosmic at his disposal?

Yes...that is the character I have been talking about all the time. I was talking about when it comes to Quantum Bands, him and Quasar are about same in using them (Quasar is probably better). Not overall power.

Still doesn't put him above Thanos, if you want to start comparing feats.

Soljer
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yes...that is the character I have been talking about all the time. I was talking about when it comes to Quantum Bands, him and Quasar are about same in using them (Quasar is probably better). Not overall power.

Still doesn't put him above Thanos, if you want to start comparing feats.

Oh! In his quantum band proficiency, sure. But when you stack Surfer's power on top of that...you're basically getting two herald levellers in one.

It's smart picking, because I'd agree that the Keeper is still right under Thanos, but it's kinda cheap at the same time.

DarkCrawler
Well...maybe...but like you said, it is a smart pick.

It's not like me and BW are completely unworried about the opposing teams, there are like three ones that we are worried and are making strategies against. Picks alone don't win tournament, but they help.

King KAM
Originally posted by Soljer
Oh! In his quantum band proficiency, sure. But when you stack Surfer's power on top of that...you're basically getting two herald levellers in one.

It's smart picking, because I'd agree that the Keeper is still right under Thanos, but it's kinda cheap at the same time. i Agree, this is quasar+Surfer, and i feel like it is atleast equal to Thanos, its 2 heralds in one.

Soljer
Originally posted by King KAM
i Agree, this is quasar+Surfer, and i feel like it is atleast equal to Thanos, its 2 heralds in one.

Meh, Thanos is on a level above heralds. He could simultaneously take several of them on. Look how he handles the Surfer, I'm quite sure he could handle the Surfer and Quasar at once.

However, it still seems cheap and unfair to people who make choices like the Surfer or Quasar. stick out tongue.

DarkCrawler
It's not equal to Thanos. Not in durability, not in offensive power, certainly not in strenght.

Surfer and Quasar are about equal. But Thanos is easily over ten times more powerful then Surfer (In anything you can name besides speed). It doesn't just add up to Thanos level.

Soljer
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
It's not equal to Thanos. Not in durability, not in offensive power, certainly not in strenght.

Surfer and Quasar are about equal. But Thanos is easily over ten times more powerful then Surfer (In anything you can name besides speed). It doesn't just add up to Thanos level.

Well, recently, the Surfer matched Thanos' power level in annihilation, big grin. I posted the feat in the respect thread.

It's slightly ambiguous, but it's still quite impressive regardless, wink.

But, like I said, Thanos is still superior to Quasar and the Surfer, but it's still unfair to those who are picking heralds LIKE Quasar or Surfer by their lonesome.

DarkCrawler
Surfer is majorly upgraded on annihilation, though, by Galactus himself.

And I think there still is an confirmation round where people can change their picks, so if they feel like doing it...

Lucid Lui
It's not unfair. Annoying? Yes. But not unfair.

As long as there's no "Well Quasar did this, so Keeper must be able to do exactly the same."

Soljer
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Surfer is majorly upgraded on annihilation, though, by Galactus himself.

And I think there still is an confirmation round where people can change their picks, so if they feel like doing it...

But that's current Surfer. And that's the one that would be used in the thread, is it not?

DarkCrawler
Really?

Okay, then. He did have to go all-out to match that power, though. Thanos can match power with In-Betweener, so I don't think he would have needed to go all-out on those power cells.

Anyway, Keeper is pre-upgrade Surfer, anyone was wondering...

Soljer
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Really?

Okay, then. He did have to go all-out to match that power, though. Thanos can match power with In-Betweener, so I don't think he would have needed to go all-out on those power cells.

Anyway, Keeper is pre-upgrade Surfer, anyone was wondering...

I realize. Still not a bad showing for the Surfer, though. Especially considering how weakened he was - he couldn't even WALK, and yet, he matched Thanos' power? Not shabby.

Een if it isn't the same surfer that would be used as the Quantum band wielder. I just like pointing out that....intense feat. wink.

DarkCrawler
Yeah, I know, it's impressive feat. yes

Scoobless
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Well, enough to at least make it angry. Obviously it felt it.

Anyway, like I said before...Thanos has higher level of offensive and defensive power then Keeper has (Considering that Thanos >>>> Quasar & Surfer).

Thanos > Power Cosmic

Thanos > Quantum Bands

Thanos = or < Power Cosmic + Quantum Bands


Anyway, BD booted him so this is moot, get your back up character ready.

King KAM
Originally posted by Scoobless
Thanos > Power Cosmic

Thanos > Quantum Bands

Thanos = or < Power Cosmic + Quantum Bands


Anyway, BD booted him so this is moot, get your back up character ready. Thanos isnt Greater than the Power Cosmic...come on man....scoob you got more since than that

batdude123
Originally posted by King KAM
Thanos isnt Greater than the Power Cosmic...come on man....scoob you got more since than that

I think he means SILVER SURFER'S power cosmic<<<Thanos

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
It's not unfair. Annoying? Yes. But not unfair.

As long as there's no "Well Quasar did this, so Keeper must be able to do exactly the same."


Exactly.

While we would not be using every single Quasar feat, Keeper was proficient in the use of them. It would all be up to judging as to whether or not we could use the said feats or not and our debating as to whether it would be plausible or not.


Also take SS and Quasar vs Thanos. Thanos wins everytime.

It might be cheap, it might be annoying, it might place people at a certain disadvantage but he is NOT above thanos. It was just a smart pick. I really wanna hear some reason as to why he should be banned other than, "damn I'm scared. Its the surfer with the quantum bands!...." No. no expression Just no.

And me and DC are still working with Batdude about the pick. We really would consider it unfair if we were not allowed to get this pick since we were under the impression that Batdude had ok'd him since draft one! Especially considering the fact that he is STILL under Thanos. Thanos beats on Surfer like its a hobby and has blasted out of Quasars shields when no one else could. erm

Scoobless
Keeper >>>>> SS & Quasar

erm

Originally posted by Blair Wind
We really would consider it unfair if we were not allowed to get this pick since we were under the impression that Batdude had ok'd him since draft one!

BD didn't have much info on him when he was OKd .... now that he's seen some he realises that he's over the limits.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Scoobless
Keeper >>>>> SS & Quasar

erm



BD didn't have much info on him when he was OKd .... now that he's seen some he realises that he's over the limits.

^^

...

Also, the current "upgrade" Surfer....I thought he was just brought back to classic power levels. I didn't think he was any more powerful than he was originally. Am I wrong in this?

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Also, the current "upgrade" Surfer....I thought he was just brought back to classic power levels. I didn't think he was any more powerful than he was originally. Am I wrong in this? It's such a vague damn power-up. Too hard to tell.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
It's such a vague damn power-up. Too hard to tell.

...good enough for me. It'll be hard to prove in a fight. wink

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Scoobless
Keeper >>>>> SS & Quasar

erm



BD didn't have much info on him when he was OKd .... now that he's seen some he realises that he's over the limits.

eh, we are still working on the thing over Pm. And in reality Keeper= SS and Quasar erm

Thinking otherwise is absurd. He is less than SS (without the bands) since the upgrade, and just about the same as Quasar with the bands. Thanos can take MULTIPLE Herald levelers and still win. Keeper is still under thanos. Beating on Galactus when he had not feed in 500 years is not that great a feat no expression He got beat TWICE by galactus. One right when he feed, and an average Galactus erm

Hasnt Thor scared Galactus away with a Godblast?? Does that make him above thanos?

All in all, Keeper is below the mark. DC I think proved that with his scans of just how powerful Thanos really is erm

Scoobless
Originally posted by Blair Wind
And in reality Keeper= SS and Quasar

So by that, you would say that Superman with a GL ring and 500 years of practice = Superman & Random GL of the present?

Because that just sounds retarded to me.

Blair Wind
Nah. Id say it was = to Superman plus Hal Jordan. Its not about raw power its about willpower stick out tongue

Its still SS, and he just has extra practice with the bands. Quasar would be a match for him (if you take the power cosmic away from the fight).

Thanos would still beat on him. The man took on Odin! If I'm not mistaken he took on Tyrant as well. He can take multiple heralds and would take Keeper as well. Beating on a non fed for 500 years Galactus should not put him out of the tourny erm

Two other showings show what A) normal, average Galactus can do
and what a B) Fed galactus can do.

DigiMark007
I try to be as unbiased as possible, but I gotta side with my partner here this time.

It's like Superman 1 Million (maybe a bad example, but I'm trying), having absorbed eons of sunlight. Except Surfer's been loaded with power cosmic, and also quantum energy, for centuries as the Keeper. It's now a huge way past herald and even Skyfather, in both cases.

I'm willing to conceded that he's not, say, Galactus level. But saying Keeper = Quasar + Surfer is also more than a little naive.

Blair Wind
The thing is for a long period of time he didnt even have power cosmic erm
He had to realize that it was part of him and he could get it back in the story line....

Guardians of the Galaxy where giving him a rough time and they were nobodies at all!.....he really IS not above Thanos. When thanos has is being even remotely matched by anyone equal to them we can talk. Till then, Keeper stands as a valid pick

Soljer
The Keeper is cheap, but I guess, all in all, he's actually just a smart pick.

Slightly unfair to the other competitors, sure. But still just a smart pick.

He's done nothing to make me think he's above Thanos level. erm.

DigiMark007
I hear what you're saying Blair, and I don't want to argue the point. I think everyone's made their case, and BD can hopefully make an informed decision. It just seems like this was a guy getting Skyfather+ cred up until now, just like a few others (EXAM comes to mind). They're still beatable, but it just makes me uneasy when it's likely a few crazy things will come out in the battles.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I hear what you're saying Blair, and I don't want to argue the point. I think everyone's made their case, and BD can hopefully make an informed decision. It just seems like this was a guy getting Skyfather+ cred up until now, just like a few others (EXAM comes to mind). They're still beatable, but it just makes me uneasy when it's likely a few crazy things will come out in the battles.

Its ok. Me and DC were actually perplexed as to WHY he was getting Skyfather cred. We actually went back and re-read all that we could to make sure we had not missed something. We still stand by our affirmation that he is not above thanos level erm


And I would have to agree Soljer. Cheap? Maybe. Smart and Valid?? Hell yes big grin

Roldz
Sorry it took a while but here's our pick..
Spartan w/voids upgrade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Void_%28comics%29, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_%28comics%29#Jack_Marlowe
Ill try to find one thats not wiki but for now i quess that will do...
Now i know he hasnt made that many appearances but since the orb contains void essence/experience i could use her feat as well w/ Spartans. I dont know if thats a problem..

DigiMark007
I think Khell wanted him for the last tourney, and ran into some problems with the whole Void thing.

He seems ok at a glance, but we may need some clarification, at least on the Void aspect, before I feel comfortable not complaining.

Also, the wiki bio for Void isn't anything about the character....I've seen a credible one, so I know it has to be out there somewhere.

Roldz
Yup im looking into it right now, as soon as i find a better it, ill post it..

pr1983
Just thought i'd post this here (kudos to digi)

BW / DC -
Black Alice
All-Star Superman
The Keeper??

Lucid Lui / DevilLance -
DL - Quasar
LL - X-Man
Both - Mangog

trolly / King Kandy -
Fallen One
He-Man
Graviton

Roldz/Nino -
Superman Blue
UNION
Spartan (w/Void)

Souja/ MartianMind -
Dr Light
Juggernaut
Beta Ray Bill

Digi / Scoob -
Digi: Adam Warlock
Scoob: Majestic
Both: Thor

PR/Rewmac-
Vulcan (Sway & Petra, no Darwin)
Superman
Hal Jordan

Bran / Darthgoober -
Earth X Absorbing Man
Despero
Surfer

DigiMark007
I edited it a bit again. There's bios for nearly everyone now. All we need now is a definite decision on Keeper, and "you/me/both" distinctions from each team for the debates.

pr1983
Me and rewmac have that pretty much sorted, just needs to be finalised...

DigiMark007
I'm guessing:

Vulcan - Rew
Supes - pr
Hal - Both

...seems to make the most sense. But of course, you're free to be dumb about it.

stick out tongue

darthgoober
Originally posted by Blair Wind
The thing is for a long period of time he didnt even have power cosmic erm
He had to realize that it was part of him and he could get it back in the story line....

Guardians of the Galaxy where giving him a rough time and they were nobodies at all!.....he really IS not above Thanos. When thanos has is being even remotely matched by anyone equal to them we can talk. Till then, Keeper stands as a valid pick
Ok, I'm just going to say my piece and let it be about the Keeper. I'm sure that in his ACTUAL appearances, he was never really portrayed as being above Thanos in power. However, if you guys start using the 616 versions of Quasar and Surfer, he might actually hit that level. The reason for this is because both Surfer and Quasar DO have some spectacular feats. If you add together the total showings of the Keeper, Surfer, and Quasar it might actually end up being over Thanos. Think of it this way, Surfer and Quasar from 616 have both taken on a Watcher(and Watcher's ARE above Thanos) right? Well for each of them to do it once really means nothing(cause just about everyone that's been around for a while has a massive feat to their record), but being able to use BOTH showings would lend believability to the feat by the character. You'd be able to say that both have done it on their own, so imagine the power of the techniques used when combined. Basically you'd be able to use ANY feat of their's no questions asked(and like I said, if you add together all three's highest showings, you have a character that is at the very least on Thanos's level, even if he doesn't surpass him. The Keeper was a character that was introduced before most of Surfer and Quasar's most impressive feats, so being able to draw on all those feats will make him superior than was originally intended for him, and that's before power meshing. The only real way I could see of him being under Thanos, would be to restrict him to feats he actually preformed(thus removing many of the questionable feats).

Like I said at the first, I'm not trying to raise a major fuss here, and I won't be complaining if Keeper's allowed, I was just pointing something out. But I've said my piece so I'll leave it to batdude to decide.

Lucid Lui
I don't see how using feats from Quasar is a valid argument for Keeper. Just because the Quantum bands, in Quasar's possesion, have proven capable of doing something, doesn't mean Keeper is capable of the same things.

Soljer
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
I don't see how using feats from Quasar is a valid argument for Keeper. Just because the Quantum bands, in Quasar's possesion, have proven capable of doing something, doesn't mean Keeper is capable of the same things.

Cosigned.

No name Green Lantern #5852 can't do the same things as Hal Jordan or Kyle Rayner just because they both wield Lantern Rings.

Blair Wind
We can prove Keepers usefulness with the bands. Thats besides the point. (and we can prove that he can do at least the more general quasar techniques)

And darth, I understand your point, but your EX AM falls into the same trap of potential erm

We would not be using him with EVERY major SS/Quasar feat (or even most at all). Just the basic stuff that we can extract from the powers. Limit us in that fashion and I HAVE to insist the same be done to you.

DarkCrawler
What Blair Wind said...

And I am pretty sure that I already DID prove that he is below Thanos...if you need any extra scans, though...

Scoobless
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Nah. Id say it was = to Superman plus Hal Jordan.

No.

A GL field can protect a regular human from attacks that could hurt/KO class 100 character ... slap that field over Superman and nothing short of Thanos is going to even dent him.

Surfer already starts off more durable than Superman and Quasar's energy fields have been shown to withstand Galactus' attacks easily enough.

Hal & Superman would have no chance against a Super GL with more experience than both combined.

King KAM
Originally posted by Scoobless
No.

A GL field can protect a regular human from attacks that could hurt/KO class 100 character ... slap that field over Superman and nothing short of Thanos is going to even dent him.

Surfer already starts off more durable than Superman and Quasar's energy fields have been shown to withstand Galactus' attacks easily enough.

Hal & Superman would have no chance against a Super GL with more experience than both combined. as if....Superman would crack surfers effing head open and watch the glitter, spew from his neck.

Rewmac
Originally posted by DigiMark007
I'm guessing:

Vulcan - Rew
Supes - pr
Hal - Both

...seems to make the most sense. But of course, you're free to be dumb about it.

stick out tongue

Naaaarrrrgghhh Wrong answer....Why do you think I'm the Vulcan type guy? Or why do you think that I'm not the GL type guy?? Or pr isn't the GL type guy or little it of both or a little bit of anything and then a like I said those things... shifty roll eyes (sarcastic)

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Scoobless
No.

A GL field can protect a regular human from attacks that could hurt/KO class 100 character ... slap that field over Superman and nothing short of Thanos is going to even dent him.

Surfer already starts off more durable than Superman and Quasar's energy fields have been shown to withstand Galactus' attacks easily enough.

Hal & Superman would have no chance against a Super GL with more experience than both combined. You still got no basis that he is any more powerful then Thanos. He isn't as durable (even with the field, because Thanos has his own, more durable fields and more durable physical body), his energy powers are still not as formidable (Thanos destroys planets with one blast), he isn't physically as strong either.

Soljer
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
You still got no basis that he is any more powerful then Thanos. He isn't as durable (even with the field, because Thanos has his own, more durable fields and more durable physical body), his energy powers are still not as formidable (Thanos destroys planets with one blast), he isn't physically as strong either.

I'll repeat my opinion, not that it matters much.

The Keeper is a bit cheap. He's obviously a step above the average herald-leveller.

That said, the limit for this tourney was not "Herald-Level" it was "Sub-Thanos."

Thanos would still beat the Keeper consistently. He's DEFINITELY sub-thanos, and is, in reality, just a smart pick.

I say he stays. A little unfair to the other competitors? Yeah, but take it as a challenge! smile.

DarkCrawler
And like I said, if it is unfair, there is still an confirmation thread where people can change some of their picks...yes

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Soljer
I'll repeat my opinion, not that it matters much.

The Keeper is a bit cheap. He's obviously a step above the average herald-leveller.

That said, the limit for this tourney was not "Herald-Level" it was "Sub-Thanos."

Thanos would still beat the Keeper consistently. He's DEFINITELY sub-thanos, and is, in reality, just a smart pick.

I say he stays. A little unfair to the other competitors? Yeah, but take it as a challenge! smile.

I agree smile

DarkCrawler
By the way, to Scoob's comment about us needing to get our backup character...

We did have one. Two. Even three.

They were all taken while we drafted an character that been ok'd.

DigiMark007
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
By the way, to Scoob's comment about us needing to get our backup character...

We did have one. Two. Even three.

They were all taken while we drafted an character that been ok'd.

I understand the concern with that. But doesn't Blair like using Kyle? He's still available, right?

...this is, of course, in a "backup" scenario, because I don't know what'll happen with Keeper.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Naaaarrrrgghhh Wrong answer....Why do you think I'm the Vulcan type guy? Or why do you think that I'm not the GL type guy?? Or pr isn't the GL type guy or little it of both or a little bit of anything and then a like I said those things... shifty roll eyes (sarcastic)

lol

Meh, pr's obviously a good choice for Supes, and Hal's the most versatile of the bunch...just seems like he'd be the most useful as a tandem character.

Blair Wind
read the discussion thread smile

DarkCrawler
Kyle would not have meshed with our other characters as well as Keeper. erm

batdude123
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
(Thanos destroys planets with one blast)

smile

http://img19.photobucket.com/albums/v58/Desaad/Hal%20Jordan/Hal%20Jordan2/Justice_League_of_America_140-21.jpg

King_Mungi
Ha! I'm rooting for DC and BW for their sigs and avatars...now that's unity smile

Scoobless
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
By the way, to Scoob's comment about us needing to get our backup character...

We did have one. Two. Even three.

They were all taken while we drafted an character that been ok'd.

And We didn't draft Keeper because we were told that he would be banned ... and we drafted before you.

erm

DarkCrawler
Well, you should have studied the character beforehand and collect proof to show that he is below Thanos...like we did. Don't give up immediatly if you KNOW that you character fits the gap. We didn't. erm

King KAM
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Ha! I'm rooting for DC and BW for their sigs and avatars...now that's unity smile or homosexuality...but hey...tomatoe-tomotoe embarrasment

King KAM
Originally posted by King KAM
or homosexuality...but hey...tomatoe-tomotoe embarrasment and it was a joke...

DarkCrawler
Heh, you going to do that every time you make a joke? wink

King KAM
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Heh, you going to do that every time you make a joke? wink you hittin on me???.....

DarkCrawler
laughing out loud

Soljer
Originally posted by King KAM
you hittin on me???.....

Who DOESN'T hit on Kam? confused

King KAM
Originally posted by Soljer
Who DOESN'T hit on Kam? confused i knew it!!!!!

soljer is Teh Ghey.....
























and i might just like it....embarrasment

Soljer
Originally posted by King KAM
i knew it!!!!!

soljer is Teh Ghey.....
























and i might just like it....embarrasment

And....

Who doesn't?

smile.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Blair Wind
We can prove Keepers usefulness with the bands. Thats besides the point. (and we can prove that he can do at least the more general quasar techniques)

And darth, I understand your point, but your EX AM falls into the same trap of potential erm

We would not be using him with EVERY major SS/Quasar feat (or even most at all). Just the basic stuff that we can extract from the powers. Limit us in that fashion and I HAVE to insist the same be done to you.
The difference is that we(bigbran and I) won't HAVE any uber feats to use in a match. The most impressive feat of EX AM's is absorbing the properties of a city(which I already said we wouldn't use if everyone thought it would surpass the cap), and the most impressive feat of regular AM's is absorbing the Odin Force(and that form would definitely put him over the cap so we have absolutely no intention of using it). However, 616 Surfer and Quasar both have feats that when added together WOULD put someone on Thanos's level(taking down Watcher's and such). The Keeper was(unless I'm mistaken about this, which is possible) never really portrayed as being as powerful with his individual component powers as his 616 counter parts. He may have been shown to be more powerful than Quasar and Surfer where being portrayed at the time he was introduced, but both have accumulated several MAJOR feats since then(like when Surfer took down the Uni lord). It's not so much about a character having the POTENTIAL to equal or exceed Thanos(just about everyone in the tourney can with 20 minutes prep and power meshing if they're not ), as it is about the character having the feats to equal Thanos before the match starts. And as I said before, if the feats of 616 Quasar, 616 Surfer, and the Keeper are totalled together, he DOES equal Thanos.

When bigbran and I use EX AM, all we'll be using 616 feats for is to show the effects of his transformations not proof of what he's already absorbed in the EX universe. So basically, we'd do things like prove that he should be able to turn into light, and then show what abilities was gained in that form in the 616 universe. We're not going to be doing anything like using the regular AM's showing to show what he CAN turn into, we'll be using them to show the effects of the transformations after we prove that he should be able to do it.

If we're now allowed to pull feats strait from their 616 counterparts, then bigbran and I should be allowed to have EX AM turn into Mjolnir(not uru, an actual giant sized Mjolnir power wielding AM, complete with all of its abilities), or Quasar's Quantum Bands(with all the abilities that Quasar has shown).

I really don't have a problem with the Keeper being drafted(though it IS kind of messed up that he was rejected for Digi/Scoob), the only real problem I have is with the uber feats that are going to be available to him because 616 Surfer and Quasar have steadily grown in the amount of power they have been shown to possess over the years. But if Batdude says that's ok then that's that(though in that case bigbran and I SHOULD be able to use ALL of regular AM's transformations minus the Odin Force of course).

Anyway, does anyone have a list of the Keeper's appearances so that I can get ready for him?

King KAM
now that everyone is drafted...someone should have gotten full potential genis.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by King KAM
now that everyone is drafted...someone should have gotten full potential genis. There's still the confirmation thread, so he could still be picked. I thought about it. Though i wouldn't be surprised if he's over the cap.

Validus
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
There's still the confirmation thread, so he could still be picked. I thought about it. Though i wouldn't be surprised if he's over the cap.
Only if you listen to Genis101.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by darthgoober
The difference is that we(bigbran and I) won't HAVE any uber feats to use in a match. The most impressive feat of EX AM's is absorbing the properties of a city(which I already said we wouldn't use if everyone thought it would surpass the cap), and the most impressive feat of regular AM's is absorbing the Odin Force(and that form would definitely put him over the cap so we have absolutely no intention of using it). However, 616 Surfer and Quasar both have feats that when added together WOULD put someone on Thanos's level(taking down Watcher's and such). The Keeper was(unless I'm mistaken about this, which is possible) never really portrayed as being as powerful with his individual component powers as his 616 counter parts. He may have been shown to be more powerful than Quasar and Surfer where being portrayed at the time he was introduced, but both have accumulated several MAJOR feats since then(like when Surfer took down the Uni lord). It's not so much about a character having the POTENTIAL to equal or exceed Thanos(just about everyone in the tourney can with 20 minutes prep and power meshing if they're not ), as it is about the character having the feats to equal Thanos before the match starts. And as I said before, if the feats of 616 Quasar, 616 Surfer, and the Keeper are totalled together, he DOES equal Thanos.

When bigbran and I use EX AM, all we'll be using 616 feats for is to show the effects of his transformations not proof of what he's already absorbed in the EX universe. So basically, we'd do things like prove that he should be able to turn into light, and then show what abilities was gained in that form in the 616 universe. We're not going to be doing anything like using the regular AM's showing to show what he CAN turn into, we'll be using them to show the effects of the transformations after we prove that he should be able to do it.

If we're now allowed to pull feats strait from their 616 counterparts, then bigbran and I should be allowed to have EX AM turn into Mjolnir(not uru, an actual giant sized Mjolnir power wielding AM, complete with all of its abilities), or Quasar's Quantum Bands(with all the abilities that Quasar has shown).

I really don't have a problem with the Keeper being drafted(though it IS kind of messed up that he was rejected for Digi/Scoob), the only real problem I have is with the uber feats that are going to be available to him because 616 Surfer and Quasar have steadily grown in the amount of power they have been shown to possess over the years. But if Batdude says that's ok then that's that(though in that case bigbran and I SHOULD be able to use ALL of regular AM's transformations minus the Odin Force of course).

Anyway, does anyone have a list of the Keeper's appearances so that I can get ready for him?

I think it is a bit different though. Guardians of Galaxy universe Keeper is identical to 616 Surfer. When mentioning his past events, they actually refer to 616 comics, because Guardians of Galaxy 'verse and 616 'verse were the same until the the point they divert, Keeper isn't simply just another alternate version of Surfer. This same doesn't of course apply to Quasar, because the bands have different wearer.

But we know that there have been special circumstances in the uber feats that the both have done, so me and BW are not going to use them. I think nobody can argue against us doing the simpler feats, though.

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by Validus
Only if you listen to Genis101. I do. He's my teacher. My guru.

DarkCrawler
Originally posted by Lucid Lui
There's still the confirmation thread, so he could still be picked. I thought about it. Though i wouldn't be surprised if he's over the cap.

Sweet sig, by the way. big grin

Devil Lance
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Sweet sig, by the way. big grin

yes

Lucid Lui
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Sweet sig, by the way. big grin Thanks. smile

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