Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/1884/1ya8.gif

^This is before the shot

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/9642/2jn4.gif

^This is the part of the deflection, Look at the wall next to lando

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/9784/3ft5.gif

^ This is the after math.

Notice the smoke? Several shots were fired at him, he delflected some while he dissipated the others.

No more bullshit of "But he used the glove!"

........

im Just sick of people assuming that vader used the gloves to block the bolts, clearly He used the force to do so, a technique which yoda and dooku used to block lightning.

No where does it ever state he cant block lightning eventhough he dies upon contact. How can it kill him If the lightning hits the layer of the force vader creates? The lightning doesnt obviously go through the layer of the force, thats the sole purpose of dissipation or deflection.

Yaya, this is proof!

Well let's see the script. Was G.L thinking of Force Deflection during this shot? Or was he thinking of blocking the bolt with his gloves?

With "this type of proof", the guys who said we never went to the moon would be correct!

As Escape continues to tell me, you can't assume you are Lucas and think what he was thinking. He could have been thinking Deflection, or he could have been thinking gloves. The movie shows, as Kadesh shows with the snap by snap picture & explanation, that Vader probably did use Force Deflection and dissipation.

Laser shots and Force lightning are two different things.

Its still the same technique to block both of them, dont be stubborn rampant

Originally posted by zephiel7
With "this type of proof", the guys who said we never went to the moon would be correct! Deny it all you want, i have just destroyed every arguement about vader using his gloves

I always just assumed he was using the force in that part anyways, cause the glove argument is a retarded argument.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Its still the same technique to block both of them, dont be stubborn rampant

Force Deflection wouldnt even have been thought of back when ESB was made.

irrelevant. Lucas just doesn't mention it one way or the other. But i also don't recall a hole in the glove...what kind of super gloves are these that a laser cant burn a whole in them? Isitoners on steroids? C'mon Ox, you're smarter than that.

I personally think it is bull that Vader can now somehow block lightning as his robotic self, force or no force. But seeing I cant come up with an argument against it right now I shall let it slide.

i dont mean lightning, im just talking about the blaster

But Kadesh seems to think that Vader can do the same thing to block lightning, which I find highly unlikely.

"No where does it ever state he cant block lightning eventhough he dies upon contact. How can it kill him If the lightning hits the layer of the force vader creates? The lightning doesnt obviously go through the layer of the force, thats the sole purpose of dissipation or deflection"

the ep 3 visual guide clearly states that due to his prosthetics he will never be able to use or deflect force lightning. if you want a direct quote i can get the book out for you.

Interesting (albeit pointless lol) argument.

Why Vader's gloves are deflecting blaster bolts (from the StarWars.com databank discussing Vader's suit):

"He wears a suit of quilted flexible blast-dampening multi-ply padding, and a cloak of armor weave. His gloves are made with a unique micronized iron that can deflect anything short of a lightsaber blow."

Why Vader's gloves are NOT deflecting blaster bolts (solely my opinion):

1. I highly doubt that Vader was hanging out firing blasters at his hands to see if they could penetrate his gloves. However, he was obviously confident that blaster fire couldn't touch him.
2. Blaster bolts are "light-based energy." These shots are traveling at light-speed! You have to have Jedi (i.e. Force-attuned) reflexes to even block the shot at all! I mean, you gotta have better hand-eye coordination than Barry Bonds.
3. Simply put, Vader is a bad MF and can do pretty much whatever the hell he wants to do.

Like I said, this is a pointless argument. I don't recall off the top of my head anywhere else where Vader blocks a blaster shot with his hands. If the official website says that his gloves can "DEFLECT anything short of a lightsaber blow," then I assume that the Han Solo scene in ESB is the support for that statement about Vader's gloves. My belief is that Vader uses the Force for his lightning-quick reflexes, but the gloves actually absorb and deflect the blasts.

My question now is this: how come it seems that no Jedi used deflection during the execution of Order 66?

Great shots of the scene, though! All the times I've seen the ESB, and I NEVER noticed the deflected shot into the wall. hmmm... which makes me wonder: if Vader can use the Force to deflect a shot, how come he didn't use it to guide it back to hit Han Solo? bah... It doesn't matter. And I really don't care if it's the gloves or the Force (reminds me of the old Jordan/Mars Blackman commercials: "Is it the shoes?!". Vader's a bad SOB either way it goes.

Because he wanted to keep Han Solo alive to be frozen and given to Boba.

Lol, wtf you doin here, I swear you got banned for being a sock.

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=002
http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=77&page=003

Slick, though.

thanks for the links, JollyJim! Much appreciated, not to mention a fun read!

No problem.

http://www.swtimeline.ru/

On the left, if you select the categories, it has comics from whatever era you pick.

Originally posted by Decay


the ep 3 visual guide clearly states that due to his prosthetics he will never be able to use or deflect force lightning. if you want a direct quote i can get the book out for you.

Dont think i am an idiot, i read the ep3 visual guide,

The quote is

"Vader would never be able to conjure lightning, nor be invulnerable to it"

Nice attempt to lie

No where it states he cant block it

Originally posted by Rampant ox
But Kadesh seems to think that Vader can do the same thing to block lightning, which I find highly unlikely.

Dooku used the same technique to throw back lightning to the ceiling

Originally posted by Kadesh
Dooku used the same technique to throw back lightning to the ceiling

But he has organic limbs.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
But he has organic limbs.

It doesnt fuc*king matter, its the force sourrounding his hand which protects him from the lightning, Both dooku and vader

I still remain skeptical im afraid.

I think its the fact that you are in denial

I think its the fact that other sources have stated that he is unable to conjur or repel force lightning.

Somehow I think you are wrong Kadesh.

His gloves are made with a unique micronized iron that can deflect anything short of a lightsaber blow. (SW databank)

He didnt use the force at all. His gloves are made of a material that deflects the laser bolts. Sorry for the double post btw.

Wrong, The movie clearly shows us that he is using the force to deflect the bolts. Again the link JJ posted proves this, it shows him deflecting them and turning it into raw energy and he throws it back at the storm trooper causing it to lobe his head off.

Obviously his armour cant do that right?

And his gloves having the ability to deflect bolts doenst mean shit because he turned it into raw energy.

Again he used dissipate, notice the bolts hit his hands and then turn to smoke? It cant be his gauntlet because why? The smoke trail didnt follow vaders hand.

Accept it rampant,

And no, RODV and the visual guide never stated he cannot block lightning

Originally posted by Kadesh
Wrong, The movie clearly shows us that he is using the force to deflect the bolts.

Wtf. The movie shows us nothing of the sort. So dont talk sh*t. We see the blasts come towards Vader (his glove specifically), then get redirected into the wall. I think it is more than reasonable to assume that it was his glove that caused the deflection, seeing we know for a fact that they can do so. Unlike your 'force deflection' theory of which your only piece of evidence has been destroyed by the databank.



Are you kidding me? We see him deflect two bolts, one with his lightsaber and the other with his glove. What point are you making?



Ummm...

More visible durasteel plates cover his shoulders, upper body and shins. He wears a suit of quilted flexible blast-dampening multi-ply padding, and a cloak of armor weave. His gloves are made with a unique micronized iron that can deflect anything short of a lightsaber blow.

Yes it can.



When have we ever seen smoke follow any laser bolt. How about I answer that for you...Never. So again, dont talk sh*t.

Kadesh, read your last post again from an outsiders POV and tell me honestly that that makes any sense...'i'll address it more tomorrow..night all.

Rampant ox, you are getting very annoying

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Wtf. The movie shows us nothing of the sort. So dont talk sh*t. We see the blasts come towards Vader (his glove specifically), then get redirected into the wall. I think it is more than reasonable to assume that it was his glove that caused the deflection, seeing we know for a fact that they can do so. Unlike your 'force deflection' theory of which your only piece of evidence has been destroyed by the databank.
Do you expect the people who watched the movie for the first time in what 1980 something to know that he used his gloves to deflect the bolts? Stop being stupid, Movie is higher canon, Whats wrong? Dont like it being used against you? And he demonstrated this several times in the EU, if his armour is so almighty, why the hell bother to stick up his hand and rather let the bolt hit him?


Originally posted by Rampant ox

Are you kidding me? We see him deflect two bolts, one with his lightsaber and the other with his glove. What point are you making?
Are you kidding me? He diverted several bolts by creating a shield, and did you look at the other link? He turned the bolt into energy and clearly durasteel armour cant do that


Originally posted by Rampant ox

More visible durasteel plates cover his shoulders, upper body and shins. He wears a suit of quilted flexible blast-dampening multi-ply padding, and a cloak of armor weave. His gloves are made with a unique micronized iron that can deflect anything short of a lightsaber blow.
Already refuted, see the above
Yes it can.


Originally posted by Rampant ox

When have we ever seen smoke follow any laser bolt. How about I answer that for you...Never. So again, dont talk sh*t. Read my post FFS, i said vader used dissipate and the bolt got dissipated and THERE WAS smoke, It couldnt be the gauntlet because the smoke DID NOT follow his gauntlet

Originally posted by Kadesh
Rampant ox, you are getting very annoying

Charming to the last



I thought it was quite obvious that it was his glove that deflected them. To put it simply, bolt comes towards glove, bolt gets deflected away. Logical to assume, even without the databank, that it was his glove which deflected it.



Wtf are you spewing out now? Im going by the movie just like you are, only I have the databank to back up what im saying. So dont patronise me.



For two reasons methinks. Ill even list them to make it easier for you.
Reason 1: Only his gloves have the magnetic capability to deflect them.
Reason 2: He was about to use the force to grab hold of Hans blade. Putting your hand up to catch it would be the logical thing to do.




I see him block one (or more, hard to tell) with his saber. Then he blocks one with his glove. What is this sh*t about turning it into energy? Its just the same laser bolt which has been deflected.



I dont understand your logic. Laser bolst never leaves a trail of smoke. Point moot. there was smoke around the gauntlet because that is where it made contact and was deflected. Your are either really dumb or really stubborn if you dont accept that.

Originally posted by Rampant ox




I thought it was quite obvious that it was his glove that deflected them. To put it simply, bolt comes towards glove, bolt gets deflected away. Logical to assume, even without the databank, that it was his glove which deflected it.
Bullshit, i just checked the databanks, No where does it state what you just said, You liar. Again this points gets refuted with JJs links, using the force to catch to bolts and then turn them to raw energy.

Originally posted by Rampant ox

Wtf are you spewing out now? im going by the movie just like you are, only I have the databank to back up what im saying. So dont patronise me. And i have everything to back me up, And the databank made no such statement


Originally posted by Rampant ox

For two reasons methinks. Ill even list them to make it easier for you.
Reason 1: Only his gloves have the magnetic capability to deflect them.
Reason 2: He was about to use the force to grab hold of Hans blade. Putting your hand up to catch it would be the logical thing to do.
1) Again he used the force, he proved it in empire comics several times
2) Then why he put his hands up to block the storm troopers bolts? He wasnt going to snatch his rifle wasnt he? I thought vaders almighty armour could block bolts, so again why did he put up his hands?


Originally posted by Rampant ox

I see him block one (or more, hard to tell) with his saber. Then he blocks one with his glove. What is this sh*t about turning it into energy? Its just the same laser bolt which has been deflected.
When you deflect a bolt, FFS when it hits your opponrnt, his head isnt suppose to fly off, even if it was a direct hit, He therefor used the force to enhance its power and throws it back, Now obviously he would have no time to quickly enhance the bolts power if he was using his gauntlet, he would have to use the force to deflect it am i correct?

Oops i forgot to add this, Dissipate and deflection are powers only Masters an do right? how bout this quote Darth Vader, Dark Lord of the Sith, was the scourge of the Jedi, a master of the dark side of the Force, From the databanks itself, And being a powerful force user i doubt that he has not learnt dissipate and deflection

Originally posted by Rampant ox

I dont understand your logic. Laser bolst never leaves a trail of smoke. Point moot. there was smoke around the gauntlet because that is where it made contact and was deflected. Your are either really dumb or really stubborn if you dont accept that.

Dude are you dumb or what? did you read my post? i said that the bolts turned to smoke when he dissipated them, and that it could not have been is gauntlet because The smoke trail did not follow his hhand

You anger me in this debate Kadesh. Your blatant refusal is ridiculous. But im going to bed. Ill argue with you in the morning.

Here is the f*ckin link to the database. http://www.starwars.com/databank/technology/darthvaderssuit/index.html

Next time dont go around calling me a liar assh*le.

Actually your denial is just as annoying, You refused to accept the fact thhat vader as a dark side master has mastered the dissipation ability and deflection ability and i clearly explained it.

I clearly explained the part of vader using the force in empire comics to deflect the bolts with the force,

Again if his damm suit is so almighty that his armour can block the bolts, Why in the name if screaming shit did he have to divert to bolts and bother to block it with his hands and his lightsaber if his armour can already block it!

i do apologise however for calling you a liar, i was looking under characters not technology.

Again the databanks are not G-canon and the movies are, The banks are C-canon

I've actually never noticed that it reflects back into the wall...

In any case, it was meant to be an act of power that Han and his motley crew could not contest with. Armored glove or neat Force power, who cares; it's ****ing awesome.

Meanwhile, I don't think armor can reflect. Also, no smoke coming from the glove.

Good point rex, because if his glove had absorbed it, There would be a burn or smoke on his glove, and clearly from what the picture showed us he reflected it and dissipated the other bolts

The glove didnt aborb it, it deflected it. Just like the databank said it could do.

well to be fair, that cant be entirely true, since "everything short of a lightsaber blow", didn't include Luke's lightsaber in ESB. So its not completely accurate and really, who cares if it was a glove or the force? Do you really think its beyond his abilities?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
well to be fair, that cant be entirely true, since "everything short of a lightsaber blow", didn't include Luke's lightsaber in ESB. So its not completely accurate and really, who cares if it was a glove or the force? Do you really think its beyond his abilities? Exactly, I'm sure Vader could do it anyway whether he did it then or not.

The database states that his armor is made of blaster dampening material and that his gloves can deflect anything short of a ligtsaber. Vader's armor gives him some protection against lightsabers, but not much (the growls of pain he let out in Dark Lord when Shryne got in a hit and in ESB when Luke snuck in a hit are evidence of this).

Also, there's not going to be any smoke from or any hole in Vader's glove because his gloves are metal ("micronized iron".

Originally posted by Rampant ox
The glove didnt aborb it, it deflected it. Just like the databank said it could do.

Sorry, the databanks is C-canon and GL had the idea of force deflection in the movies as he later featured in the prequels, You fail miserably rampant

And vader despite being a powerful sith lord and a master sith, i doubt he doesnt learn this ability

And rampant, you contradict yourself, you always babble that vader absorbed it with his gloves, now you said his gloves can deflect it.


And everything short of a lightsaber blow? Bol chatack, roan shryne and luke beat his armour with a lightsaber and yet he didnt get cut in half.

Contradictions? Yes and this rules out higher canon > c-canon

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2599/sarumanwtf9cbao2.jpg

Thats how I feel about this whole 'z0mg f0Rce dEflecti0n!!!!!111/' bullsh*t. Also, I dont contradict myself. The databank says his gloves can deflect it so it is logical to assume that did in fact deflect it. But thats enough arguing from me in this thread.

Yes he could, but Lucas had the idea of force deflection as early as TESB and later on in AOTC .

Again wookie did put he used dissipate and deflection but it also may have been due to his gloves.

Now let me elaborate, vader is indeed problably the top 5 strongest sith in history. He is a master of the dark side, and he studies under the strongest sith lord in all of history, Dont you think it is logical that he would learn this techniques? That was the whole reason why wookie put that vader used dissipate and deflection, and further state that his gloves can do it because they too had the ability to block bolts

Just to be sure here- there is absolutely no conclusive evidence that the Force can deflect or absorb blaster fire. The Vader scene is open to interpretation, it occurs at no other point in the Saga, and there has been no clear statement from GL or any relevant source on the matter.

Read the scene as you will.

Um yoda deflected bolts in the JAOW,

And dooku used deflection in Aotc.

And apparantly dissipate happened throughout the movies

And the databanks are C-canon, movies are G-canon, and im using logic to back me up, not denial

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Just to be sure here- there is absolutely no conclusive evidence that the Force can deflect or absorb blaster fire. The Vader scene is open to interpretation, it occurs at no other point in the Saga, and there has been no clear statement from GL or any relevant source on the matter.

Read the scene as you will.

It happens a lot in plenty of C Canon sources.

So do a lot of things, but I believe this was an attempt to say it is undeniably proven by the most primary canon. That is, I am afraid, not so. A case can be made but it is open to debate.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Um yoda deflected bolts in the JAOW,

And dooku used deflection in Aotc.

And apparantly dissipate happened throughout the movies

And the databanks are C-canon, movies are G-canon, and im using logic to back me up, not denial

Your attempt to say that deflecting Force-caused lightning and technology-caused blaster bolts is the same thing is simple assumption and again up for debate.

We know the Force can be used to deflect lighting. We absolutely do NOT know, for sure, it can do the same with blaster bolts.

You said theres no proof the force can block or dissipate bolts, and i proved you wrong with c-canon.

How bout i show you a picture of yoda deflecting a blaster bolt?

Again, as I said, this thread is an attempt to show that primary canon shows it, not C-Canon. After all, the databanks are c-canon and say otherwise.

Meanwhile your pictures prove absolutely nothing. Glove or force, we don't know how one might look different from the other, what the glove can do if it does block bolts, or how the special effcts might be misleading as to the intended effect.

Do you expect the audience to know that it was due to vaders gloves that the bolts bounced of the very first time in appeared in the 1980's?

And the databanks only said his armour can block bolts, if the almighty armour can block bolts why the hell lift up your hand and bother to block it?

Again vader despite being an extremely powerful sith lord and studying under the most powerful sith lord in the galaxy it is highly likely he learnt this technique.

The databanks however did not state he used his gloves to block the bolts

Well, I shall answer those in turn

1. Yes, plenty of people think it was the glove. Plenty others the force. It is an age old debate with no end

2. I believe the databank links you were given clearly state that only the gloves themselves have the ability, not the whole armour. I have no great confidence in the databanks myself because they are created by people making their own interpretations, but here in the EU area they officially have c-canon status, so I understand

3. GL clearly tells us that Vader has lost much of his power. We don't really see him doing that much. But even so, so what? Again, in primary canon, we have no evidence that any force user, even the most powerful of the most powerful, can use the force to deflect blaster bolts

4. No, but they stated he could, and the reason they state that is clearly because of the ESB scene.

sry for double post, Ushgarak, the other reason why i posted the pictures was to prove that vader did not ABSORB the bolts as so many people are fond of speaking of.

In stead the pictures show him reflecting and dissipating.

Well ok, if people are insisting that no shots were reflected then they were wrong, the scene clearly shows otherwise. But that's as far as it goes; it's impossible to tell if it was force or glove that caused it.

Originally posted by Ushgarak


1. Yes, plenty of people think it was the glove. Plenty others the force. it is an age old debate with no end
Prove it, during the first time they saw the movie, there was nothing to indicate that it was his gloves, and there for people would think its the force vader used, lightnake and anomaly said they believed he used the force when i asked them


Originally posted by Ushgarak




3. GL clearly tells us that Vader has lost much of his power. We don't really see him doing that much. But even so, so what? Again, in primary canon, we have no evidence that any force user, even the most powerful of the mosty powerful, can use the force to deflect blaster bolts

Do we see vader fighting a real threat in the movies? No we dont, we dont see what vader is capable off, and again G-canon stated vader is 80% of the most powerful sith lord in the galaxy and he studies under him, in the 19 year gap vader was learning what ever sidious taught him
Originally posted by Ushgarak

4. No, but they stated he could, and the reason they state that is clearly because of the ESB scene. No, again people believed it was the force, and what was written in the databanks was the persons own opinion. It wasnt clearly of the ESB scene, again this picture PROVES bolts can be deflected by the force http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=12&page=042

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well ok, if people are insisting that no shots were reflected then they were wrong, the scene clearly shows otherwise. But that's as far as it goes; it's impossible to tell if it was force or glove that caused it. I have to agree here, but many of us believe that he used the force, Here are my reasons,

1. he studies under the most powerful sith lord in the galaxy who has a very big knowledge of the dark side

2. It is highly unlikely GL would indicate during that scene that vader used his gloves and there was nothing to indicate so.

3.Yoda demonstrated this is Acts of war to block bolts with the force
and vader despite being a powerful sith lord it is highly likely he learnt this ability.

So yes i did make a mistake in the title, i should have put in something else

Prove it? What the hell do you mean, prove it? What, you think I tape record everyione I talk to? All I can tell you is that plenty- plenty of people I have talked to about this thought it was the glove. sorry, but they do. I thought it was the Force, but many people do not.

Whether we see Vader fighting a powerful threat in the movies is entirely irrelevant. You want proof positive that Vader has amazing powers- no such thing exists. Furthermore, I will repeat, there is NO evidence that the Force can be used to block blaster bolts by absolutely anyone at all, regardless of power.

It does not matter if it was that person's opinion. You have been reminded, many times, that the databanks have official c-canon status in the EU area, so that opinion now becomes fact unless contradicted by the films. Feel free to argue by film canon instead, in which case we can entirely discount the databank, and move this thread to the OT area, but then you'd be stuck without any of your EU sources either.

Finally, again, this thread was trying to show that primary canon shows these things were possible. Any c-canon sources don't matter at all- as just established, c-canon on this issue says otherwise in this particular case. Stop taking your own darn thread off topic.

Again, to be definitive- there is not one piece of evidence that can possibly be used to definitively state whether it was the glove or the Force that Vader used in that scene. People think either, the issue has never been resolved and likely never will be.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Prove it? What the hell do you mean, prove it? What, you think I tape record everyione I talk to? All I can tell you is that plenty- plenty of people I have talked to about this thought it was the glove. sorry, but they do. I thought it was the Force, but many people do not.


Um i asked many people, every body in my school who has seen this movie, The fans of star wars in this country
The people in Kmc, the ratios of people saying he used the force is 10:1
Originally posted by Ushgarak

Whether we see Vader fighting a powerful threat in the movies is entirely irrelevant. You want proof positive that Vader has amaziong powers- no such thing exists. Furthermore, I will repeat, there is NO evidence that the Force can be used to block blaster bolts by absolutely anyone at all, regardless of power. I just shattered this point with a link, did you bother to see it?
Originally posted by Ushgarak

It does not matter if it was that person's opinion. You have been reminded, many times, that the databanks have official c-canon status in the EU area, so that opinion now becomes fact.
Yes its a fact, but does it prove that vader used it in TESB? It didnt indicate, again GL did not indicate
that it was the gloves. Again the almighty databanks stated his glove was made of some kind of iron, if so, how is he able to clench his fist or even wriggle his fingers?

Originally posted by Ushgarak

Again, to be definitive- there is not one piece of evidence that can possibly be used to definitively state whether it was the glove or the Force that Vader used in that scene. People think either, the issue has never been resolved and likely never will be. Then it is settled

Gah! No you did not just shatter it with a link, it was not a movie link! Geez.

And obviously you must think there is great debate over whether it was Force or glove, or you would not have opened this thread. Such debate exists, hs existed for decades, and has not and will not be resolved.

The databanks say it was possible for Vader to have used his glove, reasonable interpretation says that this is in direct reference to that scene, but even if you do not wish to be so reasonable, it means the glove cannot be ruled oput, which brings us back to square one.

No but c-canon hasproved it is possible

And equally that it is possible for the glove to do it, hence that being square one.

My entire thrust is that primary canon does not help your case at all.

Thats why i made a mistake about the title as i said earlier.

Yes it is possible that the gloves did it, There is also the posibility that he used the force i never denied that the gloves could have been possible

i was giving my reasons why he used the force because it has been shown to be possible and he is a powerful sith lord, he is a master of the dark side and he learns from the best sith lord there is

Gotta say Kadesh, when i first saw it, even the SE in 97, i thought it was the glove, and just didn't hurt him due to cybernetic limbs. If the bolt didn't even touch his hand, which it wouldn't have had he used the force, then you wouldn't have heard a sound of the laser hitting his hand and sparking. Personally, I don't think it's beyond his abilities, but i don't want to be all adamant about it, because I don't want you to think that because of that, he can block lightning as well. Canon sources have stated as much.

Obviously he used the force to move his hand right where the lasers were traveling, but if you put Han's hand in the glove and shot it, i think Han would be a little bit hurt, ya know?

Also, what Ush is saying, is that the scene opens up the possibility, and that is in no way PROOF that he used the force, but i see you conceded that point already. Canon sources, be it C or G or whatever, have given cases to both possibilities, and there will likely never be a definite answer.

Also, Maul learned from the same Sith lord, does that mean he can do it? No, not at all.

Thats because we havnt seen maul do it yet. And he is not a master

Anyways like i said, han fired 3 shots at him , he reflected one and he dissipated the other two, why do i say that? Its because even in the databanks that it says his gloves can deflect it, and a deflection tool cannot absorb or dissipate energy or a bolt, and clearly i went through the scene several times, I mean heres a metaphor, Lets say vaders glove is a mirror and the bolts are a laser pointer, You point the laser at the mirror, it reflects and the mirror cannot abosorb because it is a reflecter not an absorber, Its like vaders glovs, theres nothing to prove that his gloves can absorb it

It is possible he dissipated the other 2 bolts while reflecting the last one because nothing has indicated his gloves can absorb them and i have checked c-canon sources, this ability can only be learnt by masters of the force which vader is.


Let me elaborate, If his gloves absorbed the bolts, the source of the smoke trail would be his hands, which didnt happen because the smoke is clearly in the air away from his hands and clearly i think it is logical to assume that vader dissipated the two bolts.

ok my final conclusion is that he used dissipate and not deflection,

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Personally, I don't think it's beyond his abilities, but i don't want to be all adamant about it, because I don't want you to think that because of that, he can block lightning as well. Canon sources have stated as much.



Just a question, where does it state he cant block lightning? No where it states that, i checked rodv and ep3 visual guide, it only stated he cant summon lightning, it also said that he is vulnerable to it, but nothing stated he cant block it

Maul's not a master and neither is Vader, he's better than Maul no doubt, but an apprentice nonetheless. Unfortunately, point moot.

Here's something else you have to consider...there's nothing to indicate that Vader's glove can absorb it, right? Well, what's there to indicate that a wall, stormtrooper, or ship hull can absorb it. The fact is that a laser bolt dissipates itself or stops existing once it hits a surface. Even in the trash compactor, where it was magnetically sealed, the laser eventually dissipated itself, otherwise it would ricochet forever. So its more than feasible that the lasers just stopped when hitting his hand, and didn't hurt him due to his glove and cybernetic limb. Being that we don't know what kind of metal that was, we can assume that it (the laser) didn't harm it. I mean the hand lasted the temperature of the lava banks of Mustafar, why not a laser blast?

As far as the source for him not being able to conjure or repel lightning due to not having human hands, Advent has it, and i don't believe someone of her debating abilities would be reduced to lying to adding in false quotes to win an argument. I'll ask her for a scan or page number.

I thought it was the glove when I first saw it, so did most of my friends. Some thought it was the Force.

But what the f*ck does it matter what people THOUGHT it was?

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Maul's not a master and neither is Vader, he's better than Maul no doubt, but an apprentice nonetheless. Unfortunately, point moot.
The databanks stated vader is a master

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt

Here's something else you have to consider...there's nothing to indicate that Vader's glove can absorb it, right? Well, what's there to indicate that a wall, stormtrooper, or ship hull can absorb it. The fact is that a laser bolt dissipates itself or stops existing once it hits a surface. Even in the trash compactor, where it was magnetically sealed, the laser eventually dissipated itself, otherwise it would ricochet forever. So its more than feasible that the lasers just stopped when hitting his hand, and didn't hurt him due to his glove and cybernetic limb. Being that we don't know what kind of metal that was, we can assume that it (the laser) didn't harm it. I mean the hand lasted the temperature of the lava banks of Mustafar, why not a laser blast? You do know theres a difference between vaders gloves and a ships hull right? And the databanks stated if the bolt hits vaders hands, if would be reflected, Did you see my metaphor earlier? its like a mirror, it cannot absorb and if the bolts were to hit his hands, they would be reflected as people are so fond of speaking, But no, this scene changes that, 2 of them "vanished" and if it were to dissipate at vaders gloves, the source of the smoke would have come from his gloves
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt

As far as the source for him not being able to conjure or repel lightning due to not having human hands, Advent has it, and i don't believe someone of her debating abilities would be reduced to lying to adding in false quotes to win an argument. I'll ask her for a scan or page number. I never said she lied, i checked the ep 3 visual guide.
The exact quote is "Vader would never be able to conjure lightning nor be invulnerable with it" No where does it state he cant block lightning in that quote, no where at all

you miss what I'm saying...I'm not saying his glove absorbed it at all. I'm saying that the same thing could have happened to the bolt when it hit his hand as it does when it hits something else...it just stops. The laser served its purpose and ceased to exist. OK, we'll use your example...when you have a laser pointer, if you point it in a mirror, yes, it reflects, but if you point it at a wall, thats where it stops. Vader's glove isn't a mirror. Do you see what I'm saying? It says his gloves can deflect anything short of a lightsaber, it doesn't say that it automatically reflects anything, so the mirror analogy is irrelevant. Also, it doesn't say that it can't absorb it, and like i said before, a laser ending at any certain point of contact, isn't being absorbed. Yoda absorbed Dooku's lightning, but when he deflected it towards the wall, the wall didn't absorb it, the lightning just ended...i cant think of how else to put it...

i get it, but another explanation is that he could have used the force to stop the bolt.. We dont know for sure.

Its not beyond his abilities as you said, and he has demonstrated a larger scale of force dissipation in empire: betrayel, infact he created a force shield shielding him from a barrage of bolts

And it is likely as he is a master he would know this, the databanks confirm him as a sith master

He may be on a masterful level, but the fact remains that Sidious was the Master and he was the apprentice...the databank says that he's a master of the darkside of the truth, and one of the emperor's most trusted servants...thats all i was saying about that. And yes you're right, we don't know for sure...so its not actual proof...but i know you said that earlier...

i was argueing about this because of what i saw in empire comics, the force shield thing which blocks force attacks and bolts so i thought its possible he used it in TESB because he has demostrated this in the eu

But as you say, movie-canon is higher than EU's canon. If movie says differently, we must abide.

The movie didnt specify differently oops!


so that means what yoda, mace windu, sidious all did in the EU should be refuted because it shows differently in the movies? I dont think so mr vader-hater

Originally posted by Kadesh
Dont think i am an idiot, i read the ep3 visual guide,

The quote is

"Vader would never be able to conjure lightning, nor be invulnerable to it"

Nice attempt to lie

No where it states he cant block it


take what you want from it. to me it says he cant use or deflect it. photos from the movie arnt conclusive proof because its dont with special effects, and the end result might be contrary to what the writer/director desires. i saw this movie maniac cop (bad movie) and this cop is killed in it. then some woman throws a chair our the window and the dead cop gets up and moves. this is the actor getting up, not the character, alot of movies have mistakes in them, it doesnt mean that the cop was actually alive, or that some people have a boom mic hovering over their heads at all times.

applying science to movies is cool, but at some point you have to stop and take a look at whats implied and what the intention of the creator was. in this case i have no idea wether he used the force or not. odds are he didnt because official scourses have gone to the trouble of saying vaders glove can deflect anything short of a saber blow, and since saber > blaster their saying he can stop blaster fire with his hands.

And official illustrators have drawn vader putting up a shield blocking an entire barrage of bolts, obviously he used the force there right decay? And POD proved that ability can block force powers, so you fail

And tell me decay, where does it state he cant block lightning? i have read rodv and the visual guide and it only said he cant conjure it and he will be vulnerable, no whereit says he cant block it, you are a liar decay. To you it states he cant deflect it when no where it states that? Are you trying to refute canon decay?

Yes, the bolts bouncing of could have been due to his gloves, but what about the other 2 bolts? They were dissipated because his gloves is a reflecting device and clearly the only solution is that he used the force to dissipate them, Again Empire comics backs this up big time.

By the way, the databanks stated vader is a sith master, and this is not beyond his abilies, he studied under the most powerful sith lord for 20 over years, longer than maul longer than dooku and there is alot of things he could learn from palpatine

why do you keep calling me a liar just because we have differing views? i havent even said i dont believe vader used the force, i said its just more likley that he didnt. to me, the quote from the visual dictionary implied vader cant use the force to stop lightning. if im wrong im wrong, and its not even the issue being discussed so its not really important.

its not about different views, you said the visual guide did put that he cant block it, while i checked it and there was no where where it stated he cant block lightning.

You see? Again you imply the quote was referring that vader cant use the force to stop lightning, No where it states that, that is why i called you a liar ok?

Invulnerable: incapable of being wounded, hurt, or damaged.

Vulnerable: capable of or susceptible to being wounded or hurt, as by a weapon: a vulnerable part of the body.

Here are the definitions to vulnerable and invulnerable. Kadesh, you keep giving this quote about how Vader can't produce Force Lightning and is not invulnerable to it because of his prosthetic limbs. But then you state that that doesn't mean he can't block it.

Now, my English might be a little off, even though I do have a degree in it, and teach it everyday to junior high and college students, but last time I checked, if you are not invulnerable to something, then you CAN'T block it (invulnerable means that you can block it).

It didn't look to me like Vader was blocking all the Force Lightning that he took from the Emperor in ROTJ. I know, though... the thread is about blaster shots, but I'm about tired of seeing that whole "can't block Force Lightning" quote being taken out of context. My suggestion is to do what I do: get a dictionary. Better yet, use it.

So? Humans are vulnerable to radioactivity too, But we have the protection, the suit. Being vulnerable doesnt mean you cant block it. Humans are vulnerable to so many things, yet we have come up with defences, its the same for vader, he has a defence: Force shield

And vader has a technique which serves as a protection: Force shield as he demonstrated in the comic.

He only dies IF he comes into contact with the lightning, Not when the lightning hits the layer of the force vader throws up to shield himself.


And didnt block the lightning from the emperor? He was more on saving his son then himself, so why bother to block the lightning? Also that he knew about the things he did as vader and he knew it was his time to go, he chose to die and did it without hesitation.

My suggestion is do what i do, research, then argue

We're talking about your inability to understand language here. You are almost as persistent in an argument as Advent. At least she appears to have a brain. You're arguing just to argue. Simply shut the hell up until a clue finally pops into your head... That is, after you pop your head out of your ass. Geez...

lol! I just noticed your tagline in your sig! HAHAHA! "Facts, the Anti-fanboy solution"

Facts: you don't have them.
Fanboy: Vader is definitely my favorite Star Wars character, but damn you are all over his jock strap.
Solution: Grow your own nuts, and get off of his!

Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma
We're talking about your inability to understand language here. You are almost as persistent in an argument as Advent. At least she appears to have a brain. You're arguing just to argue. Simply shut the hell up until a clue finally pops into your head... That is, after you pop your head out of your ass. Geez... How bout this, quit acting a good debator and learn to mind your own buisness, then we will talk ok? You are claiming Z0mg! beCuz H3 !$ InvUln3r@ble Me@ns h3 c@nn0t bl0cK !T!!!!!!!!!! i dont care what degree you have, you argued, i argue back, do you understand?

And you have no right to tell me to shut the hell up, i started this thread i have the right to talk to who ever the hell i want, You dont start acting big by telling people to shut up this that blah blah blah Again this is a debating forum so i have the right to argue all i want,
you got that? KTHXBAI

Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma
lol! I just noticed your tagline in your sig! HAHAHA! "Facts, the Anti-fanboy solution"

Facts: you don't have them.
Fanboy: Vader is definitely my favorite Star Wars character, but damn you are all over his jock strap.
Solution: Grow your own nuts, and get off of his!

Lol you want to troll is it?

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/2473/trollgf0.png

lol! I can say what I want, dipshit. Let's see... this is a public forum, where you and I, not to mention countless others, are members of said forum. That means that whatever you post is my business. If you don't want people to respond to your posts, then don't post them, fanboy.

exactly, you think you got a degree, you think you are big, When you lose out on an argument, you start cussing at other people, i have advice for you, GROW UP

I am grown. That's why I use "grown up" language. lol! I don't think I have a degree... I actually do have one. And I didn't lose out on an argument... In fact, I didn't say anyone did. But I did say pop your head out of your ass, which you still have yet to do.

sorry for the edits...

yup, you have grown up physically, But you have a mentality of a child.
You argued and when people argue back, you start trolling.

Anyways i got a question.

Just how old are you Nupe kill Droma? You argue like a 10 year old

Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma
I am grown. That's why I use "grown up" language. lol! I don't think I have a degree... I actually do have one. And I didn't lose out on an argument... In fact, I didn't say anyone did. But I did say pop your head out of your ass, which you still have yet to do.

Lol again why should i even need to pull me head out of my ass? You barely even understood my metaphor earlier

Which metaphor would that be?

Originally posted by Kadesh
So? Humans are vulnerable to radioactivity too, But we have the protection, the suit. Being vulnerable doesnt mean you cant block it. this one, well more of an example really

Oh ok... lol Let me pop my head out of my ass and get back on point.

As organic beings, yes, we have a vulnerability to radiation. Yes, we do have suits that can protect us from it. But I don't recall reading or seeing in the movies any occasion where Vader's suit gives him any protection from Force Lightning. What I do remember seeing in ROTJ is that his suit did not protect him. I don't have my copy of Dark Lord with me because I let one of my students borrow it over the holiday break, but I think I recall reading where Palpatine was dissatisfied that his apprentice would never be able to produce Force Lightning because of his severed limbs.

My thought is that he wouldn't be able to block it, either, since he can't produce it with his hands. I will concede that he could probably block it with a lightsaber, as Obi Wan and Mace Windu used theirs to block lightning in EP's 2 and 3, respectively.

Did i say vaders suit give him a protection to force lighting? Dont feed me with words ok?

i said vaders defence is the god damm f-o-r-c-e, An ability known as force shield.

And i think RODV did mention somewhere that he cant block lightning, but that was at that time because he did not know the force shield ability, yet.

And path of destruction confirms it blocks all forms of force attacks execpt large scale powers

Again, just because he cant produce lightning doesnt mean he cant defend against it

Wait heres the exact quote, sry i got it mixed up


vader;s legs and arms were artificial.And he would never be able to summon lightning or leap like the jedi he had been fond of doing

No where it states there he cant block lightning

lol Dude, I'm not feeding you words. I'm simply saying that I don't think he can block Force Lightning without a lightsaber because he lacks the one essential element to manipulate Force Lightning: hands. You were talking about suits as protection against radiation, so I figured you meant "suit" in this case... my bad.

If Force Lightning works like regular electricity, then an organic being's body continues the circuit that the electricity wants to travel. Without the lightsaber, a la Yoda in EP's 2 and 3, apparently you have to be able to absorb Force Lightning (not block it) to send it back. If Vader were to absorb lightning, it would short circuit his suit, and he would die (as it happened anyway).

By no means am I an expert on Force powers, but I'll gladly concede my whole argument on this one if you can give a source that shows that Vader actually blocked Force Lightning while in that suit. I've never heard of "Force Shield" outside of video games... Not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere; just that I haven't seen it anywhere else. I'm not going to pretend to be the most well-read authority, but I have my doubts.

I'm not going to bash you anymore for being a Vader fan because I think he's the coolest character in the Star Wars universe. But I think that you're constantly making him out to be invulnerable (or close to it), which he's not. In fact, he's extremely vulnerable, and not by accident!

Thanks for getting that quote, though! My bad on the bashing.

Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma
lol Dude, I'm not feeding you words. I'm simply saying that I don't think he can block Force Lightning without a lightsaber because he lacks the one essential element to manipulate Force Lightning: hands. You were talking about suits as protection against radiation, so I figured you meant "suit" in this case... my bad. He can according to what iv seen in the EU
Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma

If Force Lightning works like regular electricity, then an organic being's body continues the circuit that the electricity wants to travel. Without the lightsaber, a la Yoda in EP's 2 and 3, apparently you have to be able to absorb Force Lightning (not block it) to send it back. If Vader were to absorb lightning, it would short circuit his suit, and he would die (as it happened anyway). If you were to absorb the lightning, You would have to use the force, using the force means the lightning does not come into contact with your hands, it is absorbed by the layer of the force you created
Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma

By no means am I an expert on Force powers, but I'll gladly concede my whole argument on this one if you can give a source that shows that Vader actually blocked Force Lightning while in that suit. I've never heard of "Force Shield" outside of video games... Not saying it doesn't exist elsewhere; just that I haven't seen it anywhere else. I'm not going to pretend to be the most well-read authority, but I have my doubts.
Read path of destruction, they clearly explain how it blocks out force attacks and vader demonstrated this against bolts in empire comics, You dont have to see vader blocking lightning to be convinced, what he has is already convincing enough, thats why people debate, Have we seen yoda kill nihilus? No but does it mean he cant? Yes of course he can

Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma

I'm not going to bash you anymore for being a Vader fan because I think he's the coolest character in the Star Wars universe. But I think that you're constantly making him out to be invulnerable (or close to it), which he's not. In fact, he's extremely vulnerable, and not by accident!
I didnt say he is invulnerable, he dies if he comes into contact, that means his limbs touching the lightning, He is only invulnerable when he puts up the shield out quickly uses the force to absorb the lightning because the lightning does not come into contact with his hands but the force

Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma

Thanks for getting that quote, though! My bad on the bashing. Its np

I see what you're saying, and I can feel your passion about the subject even through the forum. lol! Still, we are back at "square one" if we look at the blaster deflections. And what is this "layer of the Force" that you keep talking about?

Don't take offense if I'm being skeptical, but being a skeptic keeps me from making absurd generalizations (not that I'm calling your points absurd). I just want to see the proof that the way one keeps from being harmed by lightning and blaster shots is by creating a "layer of the Force" around him- or herself. I'm at a loss as to why Vader didn't create this layer when he was getting his arm lopped off by Luke, or when he was getting blasted with lightning by the Emperor. My guess is that he couldn't. I understand your point on "sacrifice" for the lightning, but that can't apply to the fight with Luke, and I'm doubtful that the Force is manipulated in the manners that you speak (I'm not saying that there's no "Force Shield". Of course, I've been wrong before...

I'm eventually going to get around to reading the Darth Bane novel (I'm starting a Star Wars reading club for my 7th grade students, and we're probably going to start there), so I'll check out what you've been saying.

Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma
I see what you're saying, and I can feel your passion about the subject even through the forum. lol! Still, we are back at "square one" if we look at the blaster deflections. And what is this "layer of the Force" that you keep talking about? Force dissipation.
I dont know how else to explain it but ok lets say the guy shot you wit ha bolt? And before it hits your hands or prehapes very close to it, it dissipates, its something like that, Ok u saw episode 3 right? Yoda blocked lightning, did you notice that the lightning didnt actually touch his hand? it was inches away from his hand, thats the layer of the force yoda created to shield himself from the lightning attack
Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma

Don't take offense if I'm being skeptical, but being a skeptic keeps me from making absurd generalizations (not that I'm calling your points absurd). I just want to see the proof that the way one keeps from being harmed by lightning and blaster shots is by creating a "layer of the Force" around him- or herself. I'm at a loss as to why Vader didn't create this layer when he was getting his arm lopped off by Luke, or when he was getting blasted with lightning by the Emperor. My guess is that he couldn't. I understand your point on "sacrifice" for the lightning, but that can't apply to the fight with Luke, and I'm doubtful that the Force is manipulated in the manners that you speak (I'm not saying that there's no "Force Shield". Of course, I've been wrong before...

Because a force shield cant block a lightsaber attack and even it it could, vader didnt have the time to execute the shield, Then tell me, i understand you are skeptical, If you ask me what you asked, why not i ask you this, Then why does yoda carry a lightsaber if his shield can block out a lightsaber attack? And about the lightning from sidious, vader was more keen on saving his son rather than himself, Its not that he couldnt, thats your opinion, and had he executed a force shield before he grabbed the emperor, palpatine would release it and then attack vader. As i said he cannot say "you guess he cant because he couldnt" because he demonstrated this int he EU and POD proves how a force shield works
Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma

I'm eventually going to get around to reading the Darth Bane novel (I'm starting a Star Wars reading club for my 7th grade students, and we're probably going to start there), so I'll check out what you've been saying. You will see how a shield works there

w/e it is i gtg now, ill continue this tomorrow

Kadesh, what you failed to add to the quote is probably why others (and myself) interpret the quote as Darth Vader being incapable of defending against Force lightning. Here is the full quote, from someone who actually owns the source material:

"As a result of having artificial limbs, Darth Vader will never be able to conjure Sith lightning - nor be invulnerable to it." (Episode III Visual Dictionary, pg 63)

Now, while it doesn't obviously doesn't outright state he can't block it, if you were any good at interpreting sentences like the above, you'd know that the sentence is made to imply he cannot block lightning.

If you take the fact that basically everyone is not "invulnerable" to the effects of Force lightning, then they'd ultimately have no reason to state it. However, it says "as a result" (key) of not having living hands, but instead prosthetic ones, he won't be invulnerable to it. Note that it doesn't say "as a result of having a metal body", but limbs (hands, obviously).

So, it can easily be said that the sentence means you need living hands to block Force lightning, which isn't far fetched because you also need them to create it.

As well, we can also take into account another piece of evidence. We know - for fact - that since Vader doesn't have any midichlorians in his hands, they thus won't act as a conduit of the Force. You cannot direct Force lightning without living hands, so why would the lightning barrage go straight for his hands? It wouldn't, since he has artificial hands, and "as a result" of having such he won't be invulnerable - it's safe to assume you also need living hands to block a physical manifestation of energy like Force lightning.

As suprising as it may be, Nupey-boy actually had a valid point and argument.



And the quote was suggesting that he cannot do it, you didn't even put the full quote (probably because you don't own the book).

So, whoever the user you were talking to, he's far from a "liar". And, it's quite ridiculous to call someone a "liar" for expressing their opinions and views. He didn't try to pass it off as fact (like you do), and he wasn't being ignorant about it (because you haven't proved anything; thus many explanations are still viable).



Darth Vader hasn't actually shown that he knows this technique. It's a light sided power anyways.



Yoda also has hands that haven't been lopped off, which are a conduit for the Force. Which is the opposite of Vader, as he will never possess living hands again. We know to direct lightning, you cannot have prosthetic limbs. Yoda directed the lightning, in essence, to his hands, seeing as lightning spreads all over the place, it would not go just to the chest area, or where your hands are thrown up at unless you use them to draw it towards said area.



As well is everything you've typed thus far about him blocking lightning.



No, it doesn't. It doesn't prove you can use the Force to block lightning without actual living hands. If it does, quote and page number.

Advent
Retired Debater, yet your still detating

Originally posted by Advent
Kadesh, what you failed to add to the quote is probably why others (and myself) interpret the quote as Darth Vader being incapable of defending against Force lightning. Here is the full quote, from someone who actually owns the source material:

"As a result of having artificial limbs, Darth Vader will never be able to conjure Sith lightning - nor be invulnerable to it." (Episode III Visual Dictionary, pg 63)

Now, while it doesn't obviously doesn't outright state he can't block it, if you were any good at interpreting sentences like the above, you'd know that the sentence is made to imply he cannot block lightning.

If you take the fact that basically everyone is not "invulnerable" to the effects of Force lightning, then they'd ultimately have no reason to state it. However, it says "as a result" (key) of not having living hands, but instead prosthetic ones, he won't be invulnerable to it. Note that it doesn't say "as a result of having a metal body", but limbs (hands, obviously).

So, it can easily be said that the sentence means you need living hands to block Force lightning, which isn't far fetched because you also need them to create it.

As well, we can also take into account another piece of evidence. We know - for fact - that since Vader doesn't have any midichlorians in his hands, they thus won't act as a conduit of the Force. You cannot direct Force lightning without living hands, so why would the lightning barrage go straight for his hands? It wouldn't, since he has artificial hands, and "as a result" of having such he won't be invulnerable - it's safe to assume you also need living hands to block a physical manifestation of energy like Force lightning.

As suprising as it may be, Nupey-boy actually had a valid point and argument.



And the quote was suggesting that he cannot do it, you didn't even put the full quote (probably because you don't own the book).

So, whoever the user you were talking to, he's far from a "liar". And, it's quite ridiculous to call someone a "liar" for expressing their opinions and views. He didn't try to pass it off as fact (like you do), and he wasn't being ignorant about it (because you haven't proved anything; thus many explanations are still viable).



Darth Vader hasn't actually shown that he knows this technique. It's a light sided power anyways.



Yoda also has hands that haven't been lopped off, which are a conduit for the Force. Which is the opposite of Vader, as he will never possess living hands again. We know to direct lightning, you cannot have prosthetic limbs. Yoda directed the lightning, in essence, to his hands, seeing as lightning spreads all over the place, it would not go just to the chest area, or where your hands are thrown up at unless you use them to draw it towards said area.



As well is everything you've typed thus far about him blocking lightning.



No, it doesn't. It doesn't prove you can use the Force to block lightning without actual living hands. If it does, quote and page number.

pure pwnage

Advent, didn't you state previously state, multiple times, when quoting that source, that it stated, "could never conjure, nor repel force lightning."? Just curious if you didn't actually read it and misquoted it or bent it for you needs. No, but seriously, i was curious if thats what you thought or if you got it from another source.

Originally posted by Advent


No, it doesn't. It doesn't prove you can use the Force to block lightning without actual living hands. If it does, quote and page number. Read path of destruction, it clearly explain how it blocks out force powers, and vader demonstrated this in the EU,

Vader blocked lightning in the EU? Where, when?

Originally posted by Advent
Kadesh, what you failed to add to the quote is probably why others (and myself) interpret the quote as Darth Vader being incapable of defending against Force lightning. Here is the full quote, from someone who actually owns the source material:

"As a result of having artificial limbs, Darth Vader will never be able to conjure Sith lightning - nor be invulnerable to it." (Episode III Visual Dictionary, pg 63)

Now, while it doesn't obviously doesn't outright state he can't block it, if you were any good at interpreting sentences like the above, you'd know that the sentence is made to imply he cannot block lightning.

If you take the fact that basically everyone is not "invulnerable" to the effects of Force lightning, then they'd ultimately have no reason to state it. However, it says "as a result" (key) of not having living hands, but instead prosthetic ones, he won't be invulnerable to it. Note that it doesn't say "as a result of having a metal body", but limbs (hands, obviously).

So, it can easily be said that the sentence means you need living hands to block Force lightning, which isn't far fetched because you also need them to create it.

As well, we can also take into account another piece of evidence. We know - for fact - that since Vader doesn't have any midichlorians in his hands, they thus won't act as a conduit of the Force. You cannot direct Force lightning without living hands, so why would the lightning barrage go straight for his hands? It wouldn't, since he has artificial hands, and "as a result" of having such he won't be invulnerable - it's safe to assume you also need living hands to block a physical manifestation of energy like Force lightning.

As suprising as it may be, Nupey-boy actually had a valid point and argument.



And the quote was suggesting that he cannot do it, you didn't even put the full quote (probably because you don't own the book).

So, whoever the user you were talking to, he's far from a "liar". And, it's quite ridiculous to call someone a "liar" for expressing their opinions and views. He didn't try to pass it off as fact (like you do), and he wasn't being ignorant about it (because you haven't proved anything; thus many explanations are still viable).



Darth Vader hasn't actually shown that he knows this technique. It's a light sided power anyways.



Yoda also has hands that haven't been lopped off, which are a conduit for the Force. Which is the opposite of Vader, as he will never possess living hands again. We know to direct lightning, you cannot have prosthetic limbs. Yoda directed the lightning, in essence, to his hands, seeing as lightning spreads all over the place, it would not go just to the chest area, or where your hands are thrown up at unless you use them to draw it towards said area.



As well is everything you've typed thus far about him blocking lightning.



No, it doesn't. It doesn't prove you can use the Force to block lightning without actual living hands. If it does, quote and page number. Pure pwnage. To quote Darth Sexy.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Vader blocked lightning in the EU? Where, when?

No, i was saying about the force shield vader demonstrated in the EU and POD clearly explains how it works. Dont expect a reply soon

ahhh...i never do.