Will: Better or worse with a sword since he left Port Royal?

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Sodo
This question arose when I was watching POTC2.

In the first movie, Will had Jack on his toes for the whole fight, which is relatively good for a first time duel. I have considered Jack's behavior, as he probably just wanted to get out of there, but I still think Will beat Jack rather easily until the bag of dust came into play.

However, when the fight scene occurs in the second movie, Will seems to be having trouble using his sword, making some unwieldy moves and stumbles.

What do you guys think?

InYourFace
I think that Will has been a little occupied with Liz and his skills are a little rusty.
We don't know what Jack did at that same time , maybe he improved his skills, and that makes him better.

Surreal_44
I think the awkwardness may come from fighting on unfamiliar and uneven ground. Norrington was a bit stumbly too, and Jack was kind of...Jack.


So no, I don't think Will's skill has diminished at all. After all, he taught Elizabeth how to use a sword, and the writers have said that was how they spent a lot of their time together. big grin

Chiki Mina
Yes...alot of time together just fighting with swords lol. Wow that is so romantic. roll eyes (sarcastic)

What he was doing in POTC 1, practicing swords 3 hours a day, is the same thing he is doing with Lizzie lol.

And notice how T & T were like "Yup...that's all they did..." lol

Surreal_44
What do you think Elizabeth and Jack would do all the time? Sit and gaze at each other?


Think about it; practicing in the forge, Elizabeth and Will both getting hot, he comes up behind her to correct her stance, his hand gently covering her hand on the hilt as he corrects her grip and guides her arm through the slashing movements, his mouth close to her ear as he offers advice in a low voice...then he stands across from her, and guides her slowly through the movements, always encouraging, always patient until she can mimic and block him, and finally, when she's ready, they go through the entire dance in real-time, their blades flashing in the forge light...


Yeah, I'd be so bored too, and man, would I ever hate it...

katelovespirate
mmmm... swordfighting is not bad, but i'm all for leaning on the gunwhale of a ship, gazing out into the horizon. slightly less sweaty.

Surreal_44
I thought you liked a little excitement. stick out tongue

katelovespirate
the horizon is exciting. the ocean, the possibility of places you could go, the sky... that's what gives me chills.

Surreal_44
Horizons aren't that exciting. wink Besides, being a ship is highly over-rated. Not knowing where your next meal or where fresh water may come from is exciting, but not fun. *ggg*


Finding weevils in your biscuits is exciting, but not fun. So is discovering the joy of eating rats because you have no other meat...coming across unexpected storms, enemy ships, close brushes with the law...


I guess on the upside as long as the weather is nice you get fresh air. big grin The dance and art of sword fighting is always thrilling (though I'm only ok with a plastic sword, pathetic weakling that I am).

Chiki Mina
Will and Liz, dedicating 3 hours a day sword fighting. How romantic roll eyes (sarcastic)

Surreal_44
And eating hard bread with bugs in it is more romantic? stick out tongue

Mistypirate
Originally posted by Chiki Mina
Will and Liz, dedicating 3 hours a day sword fighting. How romantic roll eyes (sarcastic)

Sword fighting 3 hrs a day? no wonder she was bored. If I was Liz I would have told Will, man go play with your own sword, I'm going to go find some one else sword to play with. Hey... didn't she do that in DMC? wink

SarahB
lol yh gd point ......only she didnt say those exact words.......man i wud laughbig grin

Chiki Mina
Originally posted by Surreal_44
And eating hard bread with bugs in it is more romantic? stick out tongue

Jack Sparrow and Elizabeth Swann are in POTC, not the show Fear Factor

So I don't see them eat bread with BUGS and maybe spiders. Oooo, spooky wink

katelovespirate
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Horizons aren't that exciting. wink Besides, being a ship is highly over-rated. Not knowing where your next meal or where fresh water may come from is exciting, but not fun. *ggg*


Finding weevils in your biscuits is exciting, but not fun. So is discovering the joy of eating rats because you have no other meat...coming across unexpected storms, enemy ships, close brushes with the law...


I guess on the upside as long as the weather is nice you get fresh air. big grin The dance and art of sword fighting is always thrilling (though I'm only ok with a plastic sword, pathetic weakling that I am).


once again, purely a matter of opinion. When I wake up in a hut in Egypt with rats and cockroaches skittering about, I find it exciting, especially since you walk outside and find yourself truly immersed in that culture. When I have 3 dollars left in my bank account and I am stuck in Singapore I find it exciting, especially if I only have the clothes on my back. smile What are weevils in biscuits compared to the freedom to leap headlong into the world? close brushes with the law are exhilerating. thats why oceans 11 did so well. all that to say, it really depends on the type of person you are, whether the horizon is worth it.

I really identify with idolizing the horizon. so if it were a choice bw playing dress up and swordfighting all day versus chasing around the ocean in a ship with no plans, i could clearly choose the latter.

katelovespirate
ADD to post above:
and as Chiki so eloquently stated, this is a disney film, not fear factor. and in situations like that, you arent thinking about the little inconveniences anyway. at least, i wouldnt imagine Elizabeth would. she understands that there are bigger things going on in the world.

jackismyboo
elizabeth wanted to be taught how to handle a sword and fight and they did say Will was the best sword fighter.

But i see what you mean 3 hours everyday learning how to handle a sword is pretty boring they need a better hobbie.

I can see why liz loves the ocean and ships i mean her and Jack it means to them freedom liz wants to be free not wearing corsets all day and learning literature! that is the reason why liz loves to go on a ship it represents freedom! That is one way why i think her and jack will be perfect together not just the chemistry but jack is freedom in her eyes he sails wherever he wants he doesn't have to listen to anybody he doesn't need education he is free to do what he wants to act on selfish impulse he is freedom and that is what elizabeth wants.

Surreal_44
Disney or not, you will notice that all the pirates, including Jack, have certain health issues (scurvy hehe), and usually they look vaguely gross.

Elizabeth may not be thinking of the 'little things' at the moment, but as a matter of choice between what she would want to do and what she wouldn't want to do. I'm guessing that even if she ends up with Will, they may sail around for a bit, but I think you are just trying to be difficult about the sword-fighting, since it means that Will and Elizabeth spent a lot of time together.


Seeing bugs skittering about on the ground is a far cry from having it infest your food, clothing and hair. Granted, things back then weren't as nice as they are today, but being on a ship was still about as dirty as you could get.


If you're stuck in Singapore and you only have three dollars left to you and the clothes on your back, it may be exciting the first time, or maybe even the second time, but when you get mugged and raped because you're a woman and alone, I doubt you'd find it so exhilarating.


Since you find brushes with the law so much fun too, why don't YOU go off and take a bunch of risks. Let me know how much fun it really turns out to be. stick out tongue

Surreal_44
Disney or not, you will notice that all the pirates, including Jack, have certain health issues (scurvy hehe), and usually they look vaguely gross.

Elizabeth may not be thinking of the 'little things' at the moment, but as a matter of choice between what she would want to do and what she wouldn't want to do. I'm guessing that even if she ends up with Will, they may sail around for a bit, but I think you are just trying to be difficult about the sword-fighting, since it means that Will and Elizabeth spent a lot of time together.


Seeing bugs skittering about on the ground is a far cry from having it infest your food, clothing and hair. Granted, things back then weren't as nice as they are today, but being on a ship was still about as dirty as you could get.


If you're stuck in Singapore and you only have three dollars left to you and the clothes on your back, it may be exciting the first time, or maybe even the second time, but when you get mugged and raped because you're a woman and alone, I doubt you'd find it so exhilarating.


Since you find brushes with the law so much fun too, why don't YOU go off and take a bunch of risks. Let me know how much fun it really turns out to be. stick out tongue


If we end up with a kid at the end of the film, and it sounds like we are, I somehow doubt that Elizabeth is still sailing around. I have a feeling that what she wants out of life is a little excitement, but what she really wants is a family (which can be an adventure in itself, especially if your son is like my cousin, that little imp).


And just because you would choose er...a horizon (which is dull after a while), and constant near-death situations doesn't mean Elizabeth would. big grin

katelovespirate
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Disney or not, you will notice that all the pirates, including Jack, have certain health issues (scurvy hehe), and usually they look vaguely gross.

Elizabeth may not be thinking of the 'little things' at the moment, but as a matter of choice between what she would want to do and what she wouldn't want to do. I'm guessing that even if she ends up with Will, they may sail around for a bit, but I think you are just trying to be difficult about the sword-fighting, since it means that Will and Elizabeth spent a lot of time together.


Seeing bugs skittering about on the ground is a far cry from having it infest your food, clothing and hair. Granted, things back then weren't as nice as they are today, but being on a ship was still about as dirty as you could get.


If you're stuck in Singapore and you only have three dollars left to you and the clothes on your back, it may be exciting the first time, or maybe even the second time, but when you get mugged and raped because you're a woman and alone, I doubt you'd find it so exhilarating.


Since you find brushes with the law so much fun too, why don't YOU go off and take a bunch of risks. Let me know how much fun it really turns out to be. stick out tongue


i dont care to continue this argument, but i have, and i will explain so that i don't have to say this again in the future. i spent the past 2 years doing humanitarian work in the middle east and asia. of course it wasn't in the name of adventure, but it was worth every second, and i wouldn't live any other way. i understand the lifestyle of being stranded, money-less, and bug infested in many places around the world. i am delighted to inform you i know from first hand experience the difficulties of being a single woman in the world, especially certain cultures, and had some very close calls and terrifying moments myself. i am also happy to report some great first hand knowledge of the secret police in certain countries. and it was the time of my life. i lost most of my hair to lice, i was followed, nearly raped, spit on, hungry, whatever. i am incredibly proud of that, and the ways in which me and my team were able to help people in the slums. I know I will spend my life that way.
So I feel fairly confident to say I understand the hardships of a life of adventure, whether for yourself or for other people, and once you've gotten a taste of that lifestyle its incredibly hard to think you'll be happy anywhere else.
I hope you understand that when i say things on this forum, i mean them. I am not a thirteen year old with stars in my eyes. I contribute because i feel i have something valid to say. Everything I say can be backed up by my lifestyle. My opinions stem from that. So don't criticize them. i am incredibly disappointed you think i would just say things like that for the hell of it.

i dont give a damn about liz and will swordfighting. i was just responding to the idea that swordfighting is better than a life of adventure. i dont think it is. my opinion. I look at Elizabeth's character and in my eyes, she's made for that kind of adventure. the horizon. its not a matter of choosing near death situations. its a lifestyle choice about running after the things you find important.

in any case, this argument is, in my mind, not worth continuing. its completely irrelevant. and its made me quite angry.

so back on topic.

willofthewisp
Anyhoo, back to the first issue: Will's swordfighting... I think you have to take into consideration he's no longer in his blacksmith place where he knows the layout and it doesn't move. DMC has him on a moving wheel!

katelovespirate
thank you for redirecting the topic, Willo.

and for Will, the stakes are higher. he isn't just fighting some random pirate anymore. everything he loves is on the line. that causes some nervousness, i would imagine.

Surreal_44
Kate: I could respond to your post in many ways. Here's the shortest and nicest response I could come up with.


Good for you and your humanitarian work. Good that you didn't actually have to experience rape, beatings, branding, boiling water, being shoved down stairs, getting hit by a car (on purpose), stabbing, starvation (not hunger, actual starvation), thirst, disease and 'whatever'...I have.


It isn't fun, ok? Some of it happened because I chose to take the risk, to have adventure, but the point is, not all adventure is fun. OK? I'm glad that you have survived your trials and problems intact and that you still view the world with burning passion and a desire to keep going and doing what's right. I haven't lost that spark either, but I am more wary, because there are bad things and they happen to even the nicest of people (although I don't put myself in that category).


Also, the other point that I made, which you totally failed to notice, is that what you want and what Elizabeth want may be two totally different things.


Don't you think if Elizabeth didn't want to learn sword fighting, she wouldn't have bothered? If she was bored with it and with Will, do you really think she would have stayed with him for as long as she did?


Stop using your life, needs and desires to define what a fictional character needs.


And Willo, we actually agree on something. big grin I thouht Will did quite well for being well and truly out of his element. Not to mention, I am not sure how much food or water he'd when he was on the Dutchman. Things like that will affect how you fight as well.


Of course, the actors may have been dealing with their own issues, such as those nasty intestinal bugs and earaches they were always getting...and it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the characters might have them too. big grin

Mistypirate
What the hell? confused

jackismyboo
sorry to be rude especially if im new around here but if bugs and little stuff were important then wouldn't you think elizabeth or will or even norrington made a big freakin deal out of it! having food or water on a ship in the movie isn't all that important don't you think about the story line? i agree on some parts with you, yea, elizabeth did want to be taught sword fighting that is why she learned and practice makes it perfect. Will did do very well in sword fighting but i don't think food or water was his problem I think sword fighting with three people at all will make a problem i mean he was againts the second best sword fighter in the movie and the luckiest pirate the world has ever seen and i think that will cause enough problem for anyone.

Chiki Mina
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Kate: I could respond to your post in many ways. Here's the shortest and nicest response I could come up with.


Good for you and your humanitarian work. Good that you didn't actually have to experience rape, beatings, branding, boiling water, being shoved down stairs, getting hit by a car (on purpose), stabbing, starvation (not hunger, actual starvation), thirst, disease and 'whatever'...I have.


It isn't fun, ok? Some of it happened because I chose to take the risk, to have adventure, but the point is, not all adventure is fun. OK? I'm glad that you have survived your trials and problems intact and that you still view the world with burning passion and a desire to keep going and doing what's right. I haven't lost that spark either, but I am more wary, because there are bad things and they happen to even the nicest of people (although I don't put myself in that category).


Also, the other point that I made, which you totally failed to notice, is that what you want and what Elizabeth want may be two totally different things.


Don't you think if Elizabeth didn't want to learn sword fighting, she wouldn't have bothered? If she was bored with it and with Will, do you really think she would have stayed with him for as long as she did?


Stop using your life, needs and desires to define what a fictional character needs.


And Willo, we actually agree on something. big grin I thouht Will did quite well for being well and truly out of his element. Not to mention, I am not sure how much food or water he'd when he was on the Dutchman. Things like that will affect how you fight as well.


Of course, the actors may have been dealing with their own issues, such as those nasty intestinal bugs and earaches they were always getting...and it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the characters might have them too. big grin

SURREAL!! The argument it's not about Elizabeth liking using the damn swords!! It's about WILL. The subject here is Will. You seriously are still stuck in 2006. It's 2007 already and it's time to move on. You're repeating the same arguments. I don't know why you keep arguing about Lizzie liking practicing sword fights 3 hours a day with Will when the issue here is about Will's skills in swords.

I don't see the subject here about Elizabeth having fun with Will's oh so tiny, 4 maybe 3 1/2 inch swords.

jackismyboo
lol good put in words!

Mistypirate
Lets take in to consideration who post this argument, how about ignoring it?

Chiki Mina
I'm with you on that, sista.

So who wants a 2007 ColdStone ICE CREAM?! big grin

Mistypirate
Sure, I'll make some room for Ice cream big grin but I think my sugar is high I have an over dose of pina colada. LOL

jackismyboo
lol love pina colada's i see what you mean and i scream for ice cream! lol

Chiki Mina
Me, I have an overdose of pitty.

And some Cidra lol.

Mistypirate
Yes I like Pina Colada, but I had too much, I went to my brother's house to ring in the new years, he had Pina colada and coquito. Sadly the coquito was all gone by 9:30 sad so the pina colada was all it was left. I dont want to know about Pina colada for a long time now.

And Mina come on, don't feel pity, this is a new year and a new start. So lets just all start this New Years positive. smile

jackismyboo
Originally posted by Mistypirate
Yes I like Pina Colada, but I had too much, I went to my brother's house to ring in the new years, he had Pina colada and coquito. Sadly the coquito was all gone by 9:30 sad so the pina colada was all it was left. I dont want to know about Pina colada for a long time now.

And Mina come on, don't feel pity, this is a new year and a new start. So lets just all start this New Years positive. smile

Amen to that! big grin

Chiki Mina
Originally posted by Mistypirate
Yes I like Pina Colada, but I had too much, I went to my brother's house to ring in the new years, he had Pina colada and coquito. Sadly the coquito was all gone by 9:30 sad so the pina colada was all it was left. I dont want to know about Pina colada for a long time now.

And Mina come on, don't feel pity, this is a new year and a new start. So lets just all start this New Years positive. smile

Well, Misty. If you only knew what happened...but I'm trying to forget. Just it's hard to put what's left of the broken peices of my heart back together.

It's something so horrible.

Mistypirate
What happened? sad

Chiki Mina
It's long, I'll tell you the rest. But, for now all I can say that he was playing with my emotions big time. And his parents too... How could a human being do that to another?

Mistypirate
WHAT!!! mad what the hell? his parents to?. What kind of people are they? mad

Chiki Mina
I dont know...all I know is that they are not human. I can't believe my year starts with depression. If it werent for my family, I coul have never pulled it off.

Mistypirate
Well hun you can always count on me. I'm to far away. But if you need some one to talk to, you can count on me. wink

Chiki Mina
xoxo Thanks smile

Im going to bed...We'll talk more later on. Right now I need my head on the pillow and sleep it off.

Night xoxo

Always keep he faith, my friends smile

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

jackismyboo
NIGHT!! happy new years to you too!! sleep tight and hopefully you will have a great 2007!! dream of johnny for me! smile

Mistypirate
Good night Mina, you keep the faith as well. Good night Luv ya. smile

Chiki Mina
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Kate: I could respond to your post in many ways. Here's the shortest and nicest response I could come up with.


Good for you and your humanitarian work. Good that you didn't actually have to experience rape, beatings, branding, boiling water, being shoved down stairs, getting hit by a car (on purpose), stabbing, starvation (not hunger, actual starvation), thirst, disease and 'whatever'...I have.


It isn't fun, ok? Some of it happened because I chose to take the risk, to have adventure, but the point is, not all adventure is fun. OK? I'm glad that you have survived your trials and problems intact and that you still view the world with burning passion and a desire to keep going and doing what's right. I haven't lost that spark either, but I am more wary, because there are bad things and they happen to even the nicest of people (although I don't put myself in that category).


Also, the other point that I made, which you totally failed to notice, is that what you want and what Elizabeth want may be two totally different things.


Don't you think if Elizabeth didn't want to learn sword fighting, she wouldn't have bothered? If she was bored with it and with Will, do you really think she would have stayed with him for as long as she did?


Stop using your life, needs and desires to define what a fictional character needs.


And Willo, we actually agree on something. big grin I thouht Will did quite well for being well and truly out of his element. Not to mention, I am not sure how much food or water he'd when he was on the Dutchman. Things like that will affect how you fight as well.


Of course, the actors may have been dealing with their own issues, such as those nasty intestinal bugs and earaches they were always getting...and it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the characters might have them too. big grin

Omg...I can't believe I didn't see what also was in this post.
Seriously, I don't know what this has to do with Will using his 3 inch swords.



Is that really necessary? What is the purpose of saying all that when it has nothing to do on what we are focusing in which is Will. Kate was moving on with the subject and you keep having the same damn argument. I'm sorry if you went through with these, but, lets get back on to better things and let's stick to our intelligent debates.



You're right not all adventures are fun. Adventures isn't about getting your little swords and be the hero. You have to accept some challenges that will stand in your way. I to myself went to these so called trials. But, I digress. So let's move on.



I'm not kate, but I know kate and I know my friends in here. What I have seen, they are not stupid. We just want the satisfaction we deserve from the characters. Also what you want to to happen with Will and Liz and what the writers are thinking about doing with Will and Liz may be two different things.



Of course she wants to learn sword fighting. And shes proud of it too. We really don't know of Liz asked Will for lessons or Will just decided to give her lessons. We don't know for sure. The point is that from what T&T said that its all they have been doing for three hours a day as a COUPLE is practicing swords.



If you are so smart, you would know that we are stupid in using our personal problems and fantasies because that's what the characters should be.

willofthewisp
So once again, we go from a neutral topic to discussing Will and Liz's relationship. Why? Can't we stay out of love triangles?

Okay, maybe this will make everyone happy.
End of COTBP: Will is a great swordsman, practices 3 hours a day, etc. Liz has no sword fighting experience whatsoever.

Between COTBP and DMC: Somewhere along here (and I'm guessing a year goes by in between), Will teaches Liz to defend herself and she's an eager student who gets pretty good. I don't think it was one's idea over the other's. They probably both thought it was a good idea for these reasons:
1. Will and Liz agree when it comes to Liz being alive. They live in Port Royal where a bunch of shady characters come in and out of. She should be able to defend herself.
2. Bonding. This is probably also a way for them to hang out. Some couples go clubbing, others horseback riding...Will and Liz probably spar with the swords.
3. Liz's sense of adventure. Liz (regardless of feelings she may/may not have for Jack) likes pirates and likes acting like one, so she is probably fulfilling a small fantasy and having the time of her life learning swords.

DMC: Will and Liz are accomplished swordsmen, uh, people, Will still the best of all the characters in the series, and Liz pretty formidable.

Chiki Mina
Liz is pretty good and skilled. But, Will is beyond it. He is far greater swordsman.

willofthewisp
Yeah, he's the best one. But if Liz learns from the best, does that mean she could beat the others? I think the stunt crew said Keira was the best overall, so it would be squandering her talent to not have her fight much in AWE. I'm still hanging on for her and Jack to fight. That would be so hot. And I'd like to see Liz and Will spar, you know? Just like killing time.

Chiki Mina
Oh, yes smile

I would love to see Jack and Liz have a sword battle. Like in The Legend of Zorro. When Alejandro and Elena were fighting, he stripped her clothes off. That was hot wink

Wouldn't mind seeing something similar with Jack and Liz.

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