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Hey this got me thinking. You know how some people say that Cap is PIS riddled, I was just thinking to myself its not PIS but its his intelligence. On Caps bio its stated that he has extremely high intelligence and lots of other sources state that he is an expert at strategy.

Lets take the Cap vs Absorbing Man fight. If somebody as smart as Cap is fighting somebody with Absorbing Mans powers and intelligence is it possible for that person to beat Creel? I think the answer is yes, the only problem is if you are a writer who does not have extremely high intelligence how are you going to represent that in a comic? What may happen is that Caps opponent ends up looking stupid and it ends up looking like CIS and PIS when its Caps skill and intelligence coming into play.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Hey this got me thinking. You know how some people say that Cap is PIS riddled, I was just thinking to myself its not PIS but its his intelligence. On Caps bio its stated that he has extremely high intelligence and lots of other sources state that he is an expert at strategy.

Lets take the Cap vs Absorbing Man fight. If somebody as smart as Cap is fighting somebody with Absorbing Mans powers and intelligence is it possible for that person to beat Creel? I think the answer is yes, the only problem is if you are a writer who does not have extremely high intelligence how are you going to represent that in a comic? What may happen is that Caps opponent ends up looking stupid and it ends up looking like CIS and PIS when its Caps skill and intelligence coming into play.

Cap is just cool, it's as simple as that. He wins because he's an icon and he finds a way to win, just like Superman.

They are special heroes.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Cap is just cool, it's as simple as that. He wins because he's an icon and he finds a way to win, just like Superman.

They are special heroes.

Some people would call that PIS....

Originally posted by Alfheim
Some people would call that PIS....

It may be, I would call it inspirational.

Originally posted by Weyoun
It may be, I would call it inspirational.

Well ok you're new to this forum but the forum rules say np PIS is allowed. Some people on this forum say that the reason why Cap wins alot is only because of the writers I and others are on a mission to prove its not so.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well ok you're new to this forum but the forum rules say np PIS is allowed. Some people on this forum say that the reason why Cap wins alot is only because of the writers I and others are on a mission to prove its not so.

Of course he wins because of the writers they write the stories and they want them to be inspirational. That's a big floor in this forums rules if it doesn't take into account character shields, like most forums.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Of course he wins because of the writers they write the stories and they want them to be inspirational. That's a big floor in this forums rules if it doesn't take into account character shields, like most forums.

I dont quite understand the second half of what you said the character shields......

Originally posted by Alfheim
I dont quite understand the second half of what you said the character shields......

Yes Character Shields on good forums are the opposite of PIS. Certain characters are shielded by the writers because they win, that's what they do and a character shielded cap wins because he must. No offense to this boards rules but it's like a game of ACE Trumps and doesn't take into account the bigger picture.

Cap wins, because he is Cap.

He goes harder than everyone, hes on teams with 2 GODS, and a bunch of super-powered people,yet he is always the first one in battle and the last one out.

Originally posted by King KAM
Cap wins, because he is Cap.

He goes harder than everyone, hes on teams with 2 GODS, and a bunch of super-powered people,yet he is always the first one in battle and the last one out.

Exactly, It's that simple. He is character shielded and so he should be, just like Superman they are special and icons.

Originally posted by King KAM
Cap wins, because he is Cap.

He goes harder than everyone, hes on teams with 2 GODS, and a bunch of super-powered people,yet he is always the first one in battle and the last one out.

Argh Kam I know you're on my side but that doesnt help. We need to give a logical reason to why he wins, not he wins because hes cap.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Yes Character Shields on good forums are the opposite of PIS. Certain characters are shielded by the writers because they win, that's what they do and a character shielded cap wins because he must. No offense to this boards rules but it's like a game of ACE Trumps and doesn't take into account the bigger picture.

Well character shield sound like PIS. Using that as an argument on this forum doesnt work. Its like sure Cap wins in the comic but in the "real" world cap would lose.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well character shield sound like PIS. Using that as an argument on this forum doesnt work. Its like sure Cap wins in the comic but in the "real" world cap would lose.

And therein lies the problem with this forum, it's ules fail to acknoledge the nobility and spirit of certain characters who will overcome the odds time and time again because that's what they do.

It's not about P.I.S. it's about the extra power that characters like Cap and Superman have over all the others, the power of indomitable spirit and refusal to say die. That's what there real power is and not the trading card power set.

Originally posted by Weyoun
And therein lies the problem with this forum, it's ules fail to acknoledge the nobility and spirit of certain characters who will overcome the odds time and time again because that's what they do.

It's not about P.I.S. it's about the extra power that characters like Cap and Superman have over all the others, the power of indomitable spirit and refusal to say die. That's what there real power is and not the trading card power set.

Actually thats a good point. I was the only person in the Captain respect thread to put down an integrity feat. Here what I wrote:

Originally posted by Alfheim
Integrity feat

This is a cap integrity feat. Let me explain the context. If you look at the top panel it explains how Cap was defeated hundreds of times by a reality warping Korvac. Every time Korvac beat Cap he would send him back in time and let him remember his deafeats. This happened hundreds of times but eventually Cap wore down the godlike Korvac!

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2118/capintegritytr4.th.jpg

To truly understand what makes Captain America who he is its not about his shield or even his fighting ability its about his heart. Cap has such a big and pure heart sometimes this enables him to beat powerful beings where other heroes would fail. Cap is one of the few heroes that can lift Thors hammer and Cap once used Thors hammer to save his life. This is why when the super heroes get together Cap leads them, his intregrity is so great.


I dont even think Integrity feats have been done before. Im sure even in the real world a persons spirit will help them overcome the odds but not all the time! Lots of people with noble spirits are overcome in the real world. So yes it would help but it would not work all the time.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Actually thats a good point. I was the only person in the Captain respect thread to put down an integrity feat. Here what I wrote:




I dont even think Integrity feats have been done before. Im sure even in the real world a persons spirit will help them overcome the odds but not all the time! Lots of people with noble spirits are overcome in the real world. So yes it would help but it would not work all the time.

Of course they will, good post by the way. You see why this forum needs character shields it's stops all the "insert stupid character" beats Cap, Superman, Sppiderman etc. Those special type of characters win because ofthe spirit and integrity they have. They are the heroes among the heroes, the icons.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Of course they will, good post by the way. You see why this forum needs character shields it's stops all the "insert stupid character" beats Cap, Superman, Sppiderman etc. Those special type of characters win because ofthe spirit and integrity they have. They are the heroes among the heroes, the icons.

Well yeah...but its not going to work all the time.....sometimes you need some power behind the will. Are you capfangirl by the way?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well yeah...but its not going to work all the time.....sometimes you need some power behind the will. Are you capfangirl by the way?

I like Cap yes. I like Superman, i like the icoic heroes, i guess it's a girl thing, I am not really into these heroes with feet of clay. To me they are not heroes, give me a Steve Rogers, Peter Parker, or Kal El over most other losers anyday.

Originally posted by Weyoun
I like Cap yes. I like Superman, i like the icoic heroes, i guess it's a girl thing, I am not really into these heroes with feet of clay. To me they are not heroes, give me a Steve Rogers, Peter Parker, or Kal El over most other losers anyday.

Well im not too sure about Superman sometimes he seems like a bit of a pansy. Well basically I like Cap because of his moraility, thats why I dont like Ultimate Cap I prefer Ultimate Thor, Ultimate Cap is a bit of a b*****. Thats also why I dont really like characters like Iron Man hes a womaniser apparently.

I dont know if its a girl thing to like Iconic characters some girls like b******.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Hey this got me thinking. You know how some people say that Cap is PIS riddled, I was just thinking to myself its not PIS but its his intelligence. On Caps bio its stated that he has extremely high intelligence and lots of other sources state that he is an expert at strategy.

Lets take the Cap vs Absorbing Man fight. If somebody as smart as Cap is fighting somebody with Absorbing Mans powers and intelligence is it possible for that person to beat Creel? I think the answer is yes, the only problem is if you are a writer who does not have extremely high intelligence how are you going to represent that in a comic? What may happen is that Caps opponent ends up looking stupid and it ends up looking like CIS and PIS when its Caps skill and intelligence coming into play. No PIS and plot device are different. Spiderman is smart. If he were to make a device to take out Venom, or come up with something on the fly, that would be believable (but a plot device, and thus not applicable by the rules). PIS would just be the opponent fighting dumb or getting weaker.

Cap would have to use a plot device to win, if he "just beats him" then it's PIS. Simple really.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
No PIS and plot device are different. Spiderman is smart. If he were to make a device to take out Venom, or come up with something on the fly, that would be believable (but a plot device, and thus not applicable by the rules). PIS would just be the opponent fighting dumb or getting weaker.

Cap would have to use a plot device to win, if he "just beats him" then it's PIS. Simple really. but cap doesnt just beat people...he emposes his will son...his wiill!!!!!!!!


*gets held back by Alfheim* NAH SON!!!! EFF DAT SON!!! LET ME AT HIM!!!! LET ME AT HIM!!!!

Originally posted by King KAM
but cap doesnt just beat people...he emposes his will son...his wiill!!!!!!!!


*gets held back by Alfheim* NAH SON!!!! EFF DAT SON!!! LET ME AT HIM!!!! LET ME AT HIM!!!!

Dont do it Kam its not worth it!

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Cap would have to use a plot device to win, if he "just beats him" then it's PIS. Simple really.

I dunno man. Am I being paranoid but does that sound sarcastic or a bit patronising?

Originally posted by Weyoun
And therein lies the problem with this forum, it's ules fail to acknoledge the nobility and spirit of certain characters who will overcome the odds time and time again because that's what they do.

It's not about P.I.S. it's about the extra power that characters like Cap and Superman have over all the others, the power of indomitable spirit and refusal to say die. That's what there real power is and not the trading card power set.

To believe that someone will win just because he's fighting for what's right or fighting with more heart is incredibly naive.

That's why these "character shields" aren't used on KMC, we're trying to see who realistically would/should win .... all the heart in the world shouldn't let Cap beat Venom or Sandman in a fight.

Originally posted by Scoobless
To believe that someone will win just because he's fighting for what's right or fighting with more heart is incredibly naive.

That's why these "character shields" aren't used on KMC, we're trying to see who realistically would/should win .... all the heart in the world shouldn't let Cap beat Venom or Sandman in a fight.

In all fairness though it can help, even people in the real world can have greater durability and pain resistance to people who are much stronger than them. Cap is enhanced human with a alot of willpower that will mean he will do many superhuman feats.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Some people would call that PIS....

What is PIS ?

Originally posted by Scoobless
To believe that someone will win just because he's fighting for what's right or fighting with more heart is incredibly naive.

That's why these "character shields" aren't used on KMC, we're trying to see who realistically would/should win .... all the heart in the world shouldn't let Cap beat Venom or Sandman in a fight.

No they have removed hope and the human spirit. Think of the 300 or the Battle of Britain.

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
What is PIS ?


No Mentioning Events of PIS

Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.

Character Induced Stupidity, or CIS, on the other hand, refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively. Unlike PIS, CIS does not occur because the plot requires it, but because the character is genuinely that dumb. Examples of the CIS-afflicted include characters such as Rhino or Jar Jar Binks. Events of CIS are not exempt from debates.

No SvFL

Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities. For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.
For standard debates, feats considered to fall under the SvFL exemption are not valid. Likewise, examples of writing which go against firmly set canon are also ignored. For example, in Larry Hama's run of Batman and Grell's run of Iron Man, both characters were out of character and did things very much against established canon; therefore those runs are disregarded.


People have different opinions about what is PIS or not. Some people try to make it like its clear cut.

Originally posted by Weyoun
No they have removed hope and the human spirit. Think of the 300 or the Battle of Britain.

Training and strategy.

Being in the right only gets you a win in PIS fiction.... in reality, good people are killed every day by cowards.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Training and strategy.

Being in the right only gets you a win in PIS fiction.... in reality, good people are killed every day by cowards.

Yes but you cant deny human spirit can be a factor. Look at what I said earlier.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Training and strategy.

Being in the right only gets you a win in PIS fiction.... in reality, good people are killed every day by cowards.

Taining and strategy and courage and dignity.

The German Pilots had as much training as the rag tag combination of pilots in the RAF.

Do you fail to understand logic? I can believe and will that I will win a fight, doesn't mean it guaruntees a victory, which it what your saying.

He can believe as much as he wants and be as patriotic as he wants, he shouldn't win against most opponents.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666


He can believe as much as he wants and be as patriotic as he wants, he shouldn't win against most opponents.

Like who? Self-belief can help somebody gain victory. Its not a guarantee but it can help as I have explained earlier

Originally posted by Alfheim
Like who? Self-belief can help somebody gain victory. Its not a guarantee but it can help as I have explained earlier

In battles where the opponent is around the same level or a tiny bit above, yes. But not in Absorbing Man or Iron Man cases.


My post was aimed at Weyoun, no offense Alf.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
In battles where the opponent is around the same level or a tiny bit above, yes. But not in Absorbing Man or Iron Man cases.




Well this is what I was trying to explain before. First of all Cap is not a normal human he is enhanced for starters. Is it possible for somebody with his stats who has extremely high intelligence to find a way to do this? I dont have extremely high intelligence would I be able to portray this properly in a comic.

Furthermore why does the opponent have to be only slightly more powerful? An enhanced human with a lot of skill and alot of willpower will do superhuman feats.

Yeah I know you're post wasnt aimed at me.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well this is what I was trying to explain before. First of all Cap is not a normal human he is enhanced for starters. Is it possible for somebody with his stats who has extremely high intelligence to find a way to do this? I dont have extremely high intelligence would I be able to portray this properly in a comic.

Furthermore why does the opponent have to be only slightly more powerful? An enhanced human with a lot of skill and alot of willpower will do superhuman feats.

Yeah I know you're post wasnt aimed at me.

Not really, Namor has really good intelligence x10 that of Wolverines, PIS means Wolverine beats him because Namor didn't fight. Same with Iron Man and Cap, I'd say Tony is smarter and x10 stronger in nearly every ability. Yet Cap more or less ands him his ass, same as Namor/Wolv.

Sure, but he shouldn't be beating Iron Man or Absorbing Man, the only way he wins is by PIS, he will do Superhuman feats, he is more or less superhuman. As much as I could try and beat up someone x10 stronger that me, as much as I will and believe it, it won't happen.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
Not really, Namor has really good intelligence x10 that of Wolverines, PIS means Wolverine beats him because Namor didn't fight. Same with Iron Man and Cap, I'd say Tony is smarter and x10 stronger in nearly every ability. Yet Cap more or less ands him his ass, same as Namor/Wolv.

Tony is really good at building stuff, he is not a genuis at strategy. Thats one of the reasons why Cap is leader of The Avengers. Cap has never beaten Namor before properly. He has beaten a mind controlled Namor and a Namor clone.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666

Sure, but he shouldn't be beating Iron Man or Absorbing Man, the only way he wins is by PIS, he will do Superhuman feats, he is more or less superhuman.

Why cant he beat Absorbing man, Absorbing man has lower than average intelligence. Cap has extremely high intelligence. Its impossible for somebody as smart as cap to trick him into reverting back to his normal form?

Originally posted by Ichigo66666

As much as I could try and beat up someone x10 stronger that me, as much as I will and believe it, it won't happen.

Well if you accept the fact that Cap can see bullets, he can dodge lasers in zero gravity. Also Mantis a human being can knock out Thor, why cant Cap beat somebody 10 times stronger than himself?

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
Do you fail to understand logic? I can believe and will that I will win a fight, doesn't mean it guaruntees a victory, which it what your saying.

He can believe as much as he wants and be as patriotic as he wants, he shouldn't win against most opponents.

No I think you're a little lost we are discussing the embodiement of a concept "courage against overwhelming odds". You are talking about a Pokemon card game.

In the Battle of Britain the Odds were 3:1


The point is a symbolic one of courage and sacrifice against overwhelming odds. Myriad cultural references stem from this concept David and Goliath, The battl of Thermopylae which although lost illustrates the concept excellently.

The SS Stephen Hopkins is another example it's story

"Early on the morning of September 27, 1942 two German raiders suddenly appeared out of the morning mist to attack the SS Stephen Hopkins. Heavy guns of one raider pounded her hull, and machine gun fire from the other sprayed her decks at close quarters. The lightly armed merchantman exchanged shot for shot with the enemy, placing thirty-five shells into the water line of one of the raiders until its crew was forced to abandon their sinking ship. The gun commander was mortally wounded early in the action, and all of the gun crew were killed or wounded when an enemy shell exploded the magazine of their gun. At the explosion, Edwin O'Hara ran aft and single-handed served and fired the damaged gun with five live shells remaining in the ready box, scoring direct hits near the water line of the second raider setting it on fire. O'Hara was mortally wounded in this action. With boilers blown up, engines destroyed, masts shot away, and ablaze from stem to stern, the gallant merchantman finally went under carrying O'Hara and several of his fighting shipmates with her.

The stark courage of her crew in their heroic stand against overpowering odds caused her name to be perpetuated as a Gallant Ship."

another example of this concept - January 22nd, 1879

"The garrison at Isandhlwana was a disaster waiting to happen. The garrison had inadequate numbers to fend off a massive Zulu attack. Lord Chelmsford was the commander of the British troops in the region. His military philosophy on the Zulus was that they would avoid an open battle with British regular troops. The book Anglo Zulu War states that Lord Chelmsford’s belief was that he did not have to worry about a Zulu attack. From his own experience, while serving in Africa, Lord Chelmsford learned that African armies want to avoid an open field battle against regular British soldiers. His concern was that they would avoid a battle by out maneuvering his units by crossing the Mzinyathi Valley downstream of Rorke’s Drift to invade Natal. Therefore, Lord Chelmsford decided to split his forces and leave half his troops at Isandhlwana. With a smaller number of troops stationed at the garrison, many holes existed in the all around defense if a Zulu attack ever came. Rupert Furneaux records in his book that the defense line at Isandhlwana stretched 3,000 yards in total distance. There were a number of weak points in the line; one was the 1,000 yard gap between Pope and Durnford. As well, there was a gap that stretched 1,000 yards in front of the tents and wagons, and below the slope near Isandhlwana Mount. The other weak point was in the northeast corner. The job of defending the spot was given to the Natal Native Force, a force that lacked both battle experience and proper equipment to fight with. Pulleine had a better chance of defending Isandhlwana if he withdrew his troops closer together to form a half circle, with Isandhlwana Mount at their backs. Once the Zulus attacked in their horned formation, it was a matter of time before the British soldier would have been overrun. They were outnumbered twenty to one in the defense of Isandhlwana. The British soldier at Isandhlwana fought with great courage in overwhelming odds. As the ammunition ran out the British regulars had no choice but to fix bayonets and fight the Zulu in hand to hand combat. The British suffered heavy losses in the massacre. By the time the battle had ended 1,300 soldiers lost their lives and the 1st Battalion of the 24th Regiment lost all of its officers in the stand at Isandhlwana. Three soldiers were awarded the Victoria Cross for acts of bravery in battle."

Cap, Spiderman and Superman are fictional embodiements fo this spirit.

You miss point and fail to understand the need for such fictional figures.

Who are the embodiment of ideals like "Truth and Justice"

Originally posted by Alfheim
Tony is really good at building stuff, he is not a genuis at strategy. Thats one of the reasons why Cap is leader of The Avengers. Cap has never beaten Namor before properly. He has beaten a mind controlled Namor and a Namor clone.



Why cant he beat Absorbing man, Absorbing man has lower than average intelligence. Cap has extremely high intelligence. Its impossible for somebody as smart as cap to trick him into reverting back to his normal form?



Well if you accept the fact that Cap can see bullets, he can dodge lasers in zero gravity. Also Mantis a human being can knock out Thor, why cant Cap beat somebody 10 times stronger than himself?

Strategy shouldn't do much in a fist fight or when they are fighting, realistically, speedblitz, dead cap. I was talking about Namor V Wolv=Cap V Iron Man.

He shouldn't beat AM because there is nothing he can do to hurt him. Without PIS and CIS, AM is unbeatable by anyone Cap Level.

See above.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
Strategy shouldn't do much in a fist fight or when they are fighting, realistically, speedblitz, dead cap. I was talking about Namor V Wolv=Cap V Iron Man.

He shouldn't beat AM because there is nothing he can do to hurt him. Without PIS and CIS, AM is unbeatable by anyone Cap Level.

See above.

A Vs. B = C It's not that easy when talking about those fighting for an ideal.

Originally posted by Weyoun
No I think you're a little lost we are discussing the embodiement of a concept "courage against overwhelming odds". You are talking about a Pokemon card game.

In the Battle of Britain the Odds were 3:1


The point is a symbolic one of courage and sacrifice against overwhelming odds. Myriad cultural references stem from this concept David and Goliath, The battl of Thermopylae which although lost illustrates the concept excellently.

The SS Stephen Hopkins is another example it's story

"Early on the morning of September 27, 1942 two German raiders suddenly appeared out of the morning mist to attack the SS Stephen Hopkins. Heavy guns of one raider pounded her hull, and machine gun fire from the other sprayed her decks at close quarters. The lightly armed merchantman exchanged shot for shot with the enemy, placing thirty-five shells into the water line of one of the raiders until its crew was forced to abandon their sinking ship. The gun commander was mortally wounded early in the action, and all of the gun crew were killed or wounded when an enemy shell exploded the magazine of their gun. At the explosion, Edwin O'Hara ran aft and single-handed served and fired the damaged gun with five live shells remaining in the ready box, scoring direct hits near the water line of the second raider setting it on fire. O'Hara was mortally wounded in this action. With boilers blown up, engines destroyed, masts shot away, and ablaze from stem to stern, the gallant merchantman finally went under carrying O'Hara and several of his fighting shipmates with her.

The stark courage of her crew in their heroic stand against overpowering odds caused her name to be perpetuated as a Gallant Ship."

another example of this concept - January 22nd, 1879

"The garrison at Isandhlwana was a disaster waiting to happen. The garrison had inadequate numbers to fend off a massive Zulu attack. Lord Chelmsford was the commander of the British troops in the region. His military philosophy on the Zulus was that they would avoid an open battle with British regular troops. The book Anglo Zulu War states that Lord Chelmsford’s belief was that he did not have to worry about a Zulu attack. From his own experience, while serving in Africa, Lord Chelmsford learned that African armies want to avoid an open field battle against regular British soldiers. His concern was that they would avoid a battle by out maneuvering his units by crossing the Mzinyathi Valley downstream of Rorke’s Drift to invade Natal. Therefore, Lord Chelmsford decided to split his forces and leave half his troops at Isandhlwana. With a smaller number of troops stationed at the garrison, many holes existed in the all around defense if a Zulu attack ever came. Rupert Furneaux records in his book that the defense line at Isandhlwana stretched 3,000 yards in total distance. There were a number of weak points in the line; one was the 1,000 yard gap between Pope and Durnford. As well, there was a gap that stretched 1,000 yards in front of the tents and wagons, and below the slope near Isandhlwana Mount. The other weak point was in the northeast corner. The job of defending the spot was given to the Natal Native Force, a force that lacked both battle experience and proper equipment to fight with. Pulleine had a better chance of defending Isandhlwana if he withdrew his troops closer together to form a half circle, with Isandhlwana Mount at their backs. Once the Zulus attacked in their horned formation, it was a matter of time before the British soldier would have been overrun. They were outnumbered twenty to one in the defense of Isandhlwana. The British soldier at Isandhlwana fought with great courage in overwhelming odds. As the ammunition ran out the British regulars had no choice but to fix bayonets and fight the Zulu in hand to hand combat. The British suffered heavy losses in the massacre. By the time the battle had ended 1,300 soldiers lost their lives and the 1st Battalion of the 24th Regiment lost all of its officers in the stand at Isandhlwana. Three soldiers were awarded the Victoria Cross for acts of bravery in battle."

Cap, Spiderman and Superman are fictional embodiements fo this spirit.

You miss point and fail to understand the need for such fictional figures.

Who are the embodiment of ideals like "Truth and Justice"

Originally posted by Weyoun
No I think you're a little lost in the Battle of Britain the Odds were 3:1


The point is a symbolic one of courage and sacrifice against overwhelming odds. Myriad cultural references stem from this concept David and Goliath, The battl of Thermopylae which although lost illustrates the concept excellently.

The SS Stephen Hopkins is another example it's story

"Early on the morning of September 27, 1942 two German raiders suddenly appeared out of the morning mist to attack the SS Stephen Hopkins. Heavy guns of one raider pounded her hull, and machine gun fire from the other sprayed her decks at close quarters. The lightly armed merchantman exchanged shot for shot with the enemy, placing thirty-five shells into the water line of one of the raiders until its crew was forced to abandon their sinking ship. The gun commander was mortally wounded early in the action, and all of the gun crew were killed or wounded when an enemy shell exploded the magazine of their gun. At the explosion, Edwin O'Hara ran aft and single-handed served and fired the damaged gun with five live shells remaining in the ready box, scoring direct hits near the water line of the second raider setting it on fire. O'Hara was mortally wounded in this action. With boilers blown up, engines destroyed, masts shot away, and ablaze from stem to stern, the gallant merchantman finally went under carrying O'Hara and several of his fighting shipmates with her.

The stark courage of her crew in their heroic stand against overpowering odds caused her name to be perpetuated as a Gallant Ship."

another example of this concept - January 22nd, 1879

"The garrison at Isandhlwana was a disaster waiting to happen. The garrison had inadequate numbers to fend off a massive Zulu attack. Lord Chelmsford was the commander of the British troops in the region. His military philosophy on the Zulus was that they would avoid an open battle with British regular troops. The book Anglo Zulu War states that Lord Chelmsford’s belief was that he did not have to worry about a Zulu attack. From his own experience, while serving in Africa, Lord Chelmsford learned that African armies want to avoid an open field battle against regular British soldiers. His concern was that they would avoid a battle by out maneuvering his units by crossing the Mzinyathi Valley downstream of Rorke’s Drift to invade Natal. Therefore, Lord Chelmsford decided to split his forces and leave half his troops at Isandhlwana. With a smaller number of troops stationed at the garrison, many holes existed in the all around defense if a Zulu attack ever came. Rupert Furneaux records in his book that the defense line at Isandhlwana stretched 3,000 yards in total distance. There were a number of weak points in the line; one was the 1,000 yard gap between Pope and Durnford. As well, there was a gap that stretched 1,000 yards in front of the tents and wagons, and below the slope near Isandhlwana Mount. The other weak point was in the northeast corner. The job of defending the spot was given to the Natal Native Force, a force that lacked both battle experience and proper equipment to fight with. Pulleine had a better chance of defending Isandhlwana if he withdrew his troops closer together to form a half circle, with Isandhlwana Mount at their backs. Once the Zulus attacked in their horned formation, it was a matter of time before the British soldier would have been overrun. They were outnumbered twenty to one in the defense of Isandhlwana. The British soldier at Isandhlwana fought with great courage in overwhelming odds. As the ammunition ran out the British regulars had no choice but to fix bayonets and fight the Zulu in hand to hand combat. The British suffered heavy losses in the massacre. By the time the battle had ended 1,300 soldiers lost their lives and the 1st Battalion of the 24th Regiment lost all of its officers in the stand at Isandhlwana. Three soldiers were awarded the Victoria Cross for acts of bravery in battle."

Cap, Spiderman and Superman are fictional embodiements fo this spirit.

You miss point and fail to understand the need for such fictional figures.

Who are the embodiment of ideals like "Truth and Justice"
I'm sorry, but real life has nothing to do with comics, or else Cap wouldn't be beating 75% of people he does.

So if I wear a Union Jack, get a shield, will my way, I can beat Mike Tyson or someone? I don't really think so. Your missing the whole Logic of Cap shouldn't beat most of who he beats, they are x10 superior and because he wants to win, he shouldn't win.

Originally posted by Weyoun
A Vs. B = C It's not that easy when talking about those fighting for an ideal.

B 10/10. Don't try to insult me because you don't comprehend logic. As much as I want, I can't beat someone x10 superior to me. Neither should Cap, or it is P-I-S.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
Strategy shouldn't do much in a fist fight or when they are fighting,

Why not???

Originally posted by Ichigo66666

realistically, speedblitz, dead cap.

Who is speedblitzing cap, Quicksilver?

Originally posted by Ichigo66666

I was talking about Namor V Wolv=Cap V Iron Man.

Oh.


Originally posted by Ichigo66666

He shouldn't beat AM because there is nothing he can do to hurt him. Without PIS and CIS, AM is unbeatable by anyone Cap Level.

Well you're not dumb but do you have extremely high intelligence? If you had extremely high intelligence and you were enhanced human you think its impossible for Cap to find a way of beating AM? In fact i can think of one way now. If AM knew that cap was going to hit him with his shield what would he do? AM would try to absorb it, what would happen if Cap pretended he was going to hit him with his shield an instead punched him. AM turn back into human form and then Cap would knock him out.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
I'm sorry, but real life has nothing to do with comics, or else Cap wouldn't be beating 75% of people he does.

So if I wear a Union Jack, get a shield, will my way, I can beat Mike Tyson or someone? I don't really think so. Your missing the whole Logic of Cap shouldn't beat most of who he beats, they are x10 superior and because he wants to win, he shouldn't win.

Again you miss the point of what Cap is and what his stories are about it's about overcoming overwhelming odds, it's about hope and courage and everytime someone is given a medal for bravery they have done something which the concept of Caps stories embodies.

This is what you fail to grasp.

It's the concpt that made brave men charge machine gun nests.

This is not PIS this the reason for the plot.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Why not???



Who is speedblitzing cap, Quicksilver?



Oh.




Well you're not dumb but do you have extremely high intelligence? If you had extremely high intelligence and you were enhanced human you think its impossible for Cap to find a way of beating AM? In fact i can think of one way now. If AM knew that cap was going to hit him with his shield what would he do? AM would try to absorb it, what would happen if Cap pretended he was going to hit him with his shield an instead punched him. AM turn back into human form and then Cap would knock him out.

Because when your punching someone or in a fight, you don't think about strategy you think about punching him.

Nope, IM could easily Speedblitz Cap to doom.

Is still touches him on contact, and will change to human, he isn't a weakling there you know, or he can grab Caps shield or something tough surrounding them.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
I'm sorry, but real life has nothing to do with comics, or else Cap wouldn't be beating 75% of people he does.

So if I wear a Union Jack, get a shield, will my way, I can beat Mike Tyson or someone? I don't really think so. Your missing the whole Logic of Cap shouldn't beat most of who he beats, they are x10 superior and because he wants to win, he shouldn't win.

Its not as simple as that. For example Cap can beat Mr Hyde or The Wrecker because he is more agile and smarter than both of them.

Cap can give Spider Man alot of trouble because he is a better strategist and is a much better fighter than he is. Also Spiderman is not so fast that Cap cant hit him.

Cap can beat AMM because he is smarter.

You are not superior to Tyson in any form.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Again you miss the point of what Cap is and what his stories are about it's about overcoming overwhelming odds, it's about hope and courage and everytime someone is given a medal for bravery they have done something which the concept of Caps stories embodies.

This is what you fail to grasp.

It's the concpt that made brave men charge machine gun nests.

This is not PIS this the reason for the plot.

Nope, you miss the point entirely. Because he is patriotic and wants to win, doesn't mean he should win.

This is what YOU fail to grasp.

This is PIS because the writers can't let him lose.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
Nope, you miss the point entirely. Because he is patriotic and wants to win, doesn't mean he should win.

This is what YOU fail to grasp.

This is PIS because the writers can't let him lose.

It's nothing to do with patriotism.

It's to do with facing and overcoming overwhelming odds, where have I mentioned patriotism.

You truly are a lost cause. Little Boys, so silly.

Originally posted by Weyoun
It's nothing to do with patriotism.

It's to do with facing and overcoming overwhelming odds, where have I mentioned patriotism.

You truly are a lost cause. Little Boys, so silly.

I'm a lost cause? You silly retarded ****, because you can't get over your Cap A. you won't let him lose.

It is, you say he can't loose because he fights for what he wants, as much as he wants, he shouldn't win.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
Because when your punching someone or in a fight, you don't think about strategy you think about punching him.

Seriously im not being offensive but thats what people with little fightign experience do. Experienced MA's and boxers have a strategy. If you dont belive me just listen to a boxers talking before a fight. They dont just say im just going to punch, they talk about their strategy.


Originally posted by Ichigo66666

Nope, IM could easily Speedblitz Cap to doom.

You do know Cap can see bullets and has dodged lasers in zero gravity?

Originally posted by Ichigo66666

Is still touches him on contact, and will change to human, he isn't a weakling there you know, or he can grab Caps shield or something tough surrounding them.

So you're telling me that AM in human form can fight one of the best combatants on earth, who is better than Shang Chi, can dodge bullets and has knocked out Thunderball out cold? Can creel dodge bullets in human form, hes not wimp but he doesnt even have peak human reflexes in human form.

AM in human form is no match for Cap, Cap will knock him out before he knows whats happened

Originally posted by Weyoun
It's nothing to do with patriotism.

It's to do with facing and overcoming overwhelming odds, where have I mentioned patriotism.

You truly are a lost cause. Little Boys, so silly.

Sorry Weyoun, I know you're on, my side but hes right you're talking about PIS. Ichi is not saying that willpower is not a factor he is saying its not enough. I am saying that combined with other factors is.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Seriously im not being offensive but thats what people with little fightign experience do. Experienced MA's and boxers have a strategy. If you dont belive me just listen to a boxers talking before a fight. They dont just say im just going to punch, they talk about their strategy.




You do know Cap can see bullets and has dodged lasers in zero gravity?



So you're telling me that AM in human form can fight one of the best combatants on earth, who is better than Shang Chi, can dodge bullets and has knocked out Thunderball out cold? Can creel dodge bullets in human form, hes not wimp but he doesnt even have peak human reflexes in human form.

AM in human form is no match for Cap, Cap will knock him out before he knows whats happened

Yes, but that is preperation, in a random fight that just happened, you have nothing, just fighting. You can't stop and ask them to pause while you think of ways to beat them.

Yes, you do know IM went to the sun in seconds?

No, Creel can atleast hold off Cap until he can grab something solid and well to change into.

Not really, Creel is a big man, he can hold while getting something to something useful.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
I'm a lost cause? You silly retarded ****, because you can't get over your Cap A. you won't let him lose.

It is, you say he can't loose because he fights for what he wants, as much as he wants, he shouldn't win.

Silly, Retarded and swearing? I suspect you are about 10 how did you get on this forum.

Do they do English Literature at your school, did you get an GCSE in it or are you likely to? I suspect you won't be getting one because you fail to grasp the only one using the term patriotism is you. The plot is about an everyman overcoming overwhelming odds. Steve overcame these, before the serum, he was brave enough to take it although it might kill him. It's a story about sacrifice and redemption, courage and dignity. Overcoming the seemingly impossible it's about hope not WWE wrestling. The good writers get it, that's why Cap is allowed to do what he does you don't but then you're very emotional.

Little Boys, lol I wonder if any men are on this forum.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Silly, Retarded and swearing? I suspect you are about 10 how did you get on this forum.

Do they do English Literature at your school did you get an GCSE in it or are you likely to? I suspect you won't be getting one because you fail to grasp the only one using the term patriotism is you. The plot is about an everyman overcoming overwhelming odds. Steve overcame these, befre the serum, he was brave enough to take it although it might kill him. It's a story about sacrifice and redemption, courage and dignity. Overcoming the seemingly impossible it's about hope not WWE wrestling. The good writers get it, that's why Cap is allowed to do what he does you don't but then you're very emotional.

Little Boys, lol I wonder if any men are on this forum. dont get mad.... hes just a little tense that hes still a virgin

Originally posted by King KAM
dont get mad.... hes just a little tense that hes still a virgin

I realised that, thank you, you seem nice. Maybe not all the guys are little boys on this forum.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Silly, Retarded and swearing? I suspect you are about 10 how did you get on this forum.

Do they do English Literature at your school did you get an GCSE in it or are you likely to? I suspect you won't be getting one because you fail to grasp the only one using the term patriotism is you. The plot is about an everyman overcoming overwhelming odds. Steve overcame these, befre the serum, he was brave enough to take it although it might kill him. It's a story about sacrifice and redemption, courage and dignity. Overcoming the seemingly impossible it's about hope not WWE wrestling. The good writers get it, that's why Cap is allowed to do what he does you don't but then you're very emotional.

I'm silly, oh sorry, I have never said that word since I was about 8 years old. 5 years ago.

I'm 13 and I have destroyed any comment you have put into play. I suspect, neither did you, your comments are irrelevant, you fail to comprehend simple logic. Even Alfheim is saying your talking PIS, still fail to understand? No, your still wrong, just because he thinks and wants to beat someone, he can't do it without PIS. No matter how much you, the writers or anyone else want him to, it is PIS. If they are x 10 superior to him, he can't beat them just due to willpower.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
I'm silly, oh sorry, I have never said that word since I was about 8 years old. 5 years ago.

I'm 13 and I have destroyed any comment you have put into play. I suspect, neither did you, your comments are irrelevant, you fail to comprehend simple logic. Even Alfheim is saying your talking PIS, still fail to understand? No, your still wrong, just because he thinks and wants to beat someone, he can't do it without PIS. No matter how much you, the writers or anyone else want him to, it is PIS. If they are x 10 superior to him, he can't beat them just due to willpower.

You're 13 conversation over, I understand the problem now. That's why you don't understand the concepts i'm propogating.

Oh dear, how silly arguing with a little boy and using concepts he can't grasp.

hehe.

Originally posted by King KAM
dont get mad.... hes just a little tense that hes still a virgin

No, i'm tense that there is retards and stupid people left in this world. That fail to comprehend logic such as PIS, your Captain is nothing but walking, talking PIS.

Originally posted by Weyoun
You're 13 conversation over, I understand the problem now. That's why you don't understand the concepts i'm propogating.

Oh dear, how silly arguing with a little boy and using concepts he can't grasp.

hehe.

Do you still not understand? Even Alf proved me right:
Originally posted by Alfheim

Sorry Weyoun, I know you're on, my side but hes right you're talking about PIS. Ichi is not saying that willpower is not a factor he is saying its not enough. I am saying that combined with other factors is.

But wait, your retarded, i'm sorry, I failed to see that no matter how much I prove you right, you don't understand logic.

Oh dear, arguing with a retarded 10 year old, putting across Logic she can't comprehend.

How stupid of me.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
No, i'm tense that there is retards and stupid people left in this world. That fail to comprehend logic such as PIS, your Captain is nothing but walking, talking PIS.

Poor Baby go back to your Pokemon.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
Do you still not understand? Even Alf proved me right:


But wait, your retarded, i'm sorry, I failed to see that no matter how much I prove you right, you don't understand logic.

Oh dear, arguing with a retarded 10 year old, putting across Logic she can't comprehend.

How stupid of me.

This is not about logic. Nothing in comics is logial unless you believe a man can fly. They are plot driven, look up protagonist on google.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
Yes, but that is preperation, in a random fight that just happened, you have nothing, just fighting. You can't stop and ask them to pause while you think of ways to beat them.

No im sorry even in a random fight strategy would be involved. just because its random does that mean that all your fighting knowldge and training goes out of the window. For normal people yes , but not for an experienced MA. Again he is an experienced MA, enhanced human with extremely high intelligence. Are you telling me somebody with those stats can think something up in a random encounter.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666

Yes, you do know IM went to the sun in seconds?

Faster than the speed of light? Cap has dodged lasers in zero garvity. He can dodge Iron man.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666

No, Creel can atleast hold off Cap until he can grab something solid and well to change into.

Not really, Creel is a big man, he can hold while getting something to something useful.

Creel is tough but he is still human and furthermore he is not a trained human being. have you seen how much superior cap is to trained humans he can knock them out before they react and he can move so fast they can barely seem him. Creel is not even trained, Creel is going down.

King Kam could you please be nice. Weyoun try to be nice. Ichi try and cool it.

Originally posted by Weyoun
This is not about logic. Nothing in comics is logial unless you believe a man can fly. They are plot driven, look up protagonist on google.

Yes that is true, but the whole point of this forum is to try and be logical. Ive aksed Ichi to calm down, could you try to be nice? I know he sweared at you but I want people to try and be civil on my thread.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Poor Baby go back to your Pokemon.

Poor Retard, go back to your unbreakable watch and masturbating over Cap.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
Poor Retard, go back to your unbreakable watch and masturbating over Cap.

By 16 girls don't mastabate that much, I was never that into it anyway because I could get boyfriends and still can. Have you had a wet dream yet? I doubt it.

Originally posted by Weyoun
This is not about logic. Nothing in comics is logial unless you believe a man can fly. They are plot driven, look up protagonist on google.

Well in many ways it is PIS, now it makes a great story line for him to come back from overwhelming odds but he does this on a regular basis. I have always been a strong defender of combat experience and give it much weight but sometimes it goes too far and with the frequency that Cap does this is a bit much.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
No, i'm tense that there is retards and stupid people left in this world. That fail to comprehend logic such as PIS, your Captain is nothing but walking, talking PIS. no more than Franklin Richards and Scarlet witch

Originally posted by Alfheim
No im sorry even in a random fight strategy would be involved. just because its random does that mean that all your fighting knowldge and training goes out of the window. For normal people yes , but not for an experienced MA. Again he is an experienced MA, enhanced human with extremely high intelligence. Are you telling me somebody with those stats can think something up in a random encounter.



Faster than the speed of light? Cap has dodged lasers in zero garvity. He can dodge Iron man.



Creel is tough but he is still human and furthermore he is not a trained human being. have you seen how much superior cap is to trained humans he can knock them out before they react and he can move so fast they can barely seem him. Creel is not even trained, Creel is going down.

King Kam could you please be nice. Weyoun try to be nice. Ichi try and cool it.

If someone just jumps out of nowhere and attacks him, he maintains his skill and intelligence, but may not have time to use it while he is been whipped about.

Iron Man went to the sun in seconds, I think he can hit Cap.

I'm sure Creel can take some punches or touch Caps Shield or something like that around him, he is superior, but Creel isn't a stick. He will hold himself. Creel is going down, if he doesn't grab something. E.G. Caps Shield, which he should be able to do.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
Poor Retard, go back to your unbreakable watch and masturbating over Cap.

Please stop it!


Originally posted by Weyoun
By 16 girls don't mastabate that much, I was never that into it anyway because I could get boyfriends and still can. Have you had a wet dream yet? I doubt it.

Please stop it!

Originally posted by ThePittman
Well in many ways it is PIS, now it makes a great story line for him to come back from overwhelming odds but he does this on a regular basis. I have always been a strong defender of combat experience and give it much weight but sometimes it goes too far and with the frequency that Cap does this is a bit much.

Exactly Pittman it's about the plot.

It seems itchygo or whatever doesn't get that like the rest of us and wants to just shout, it's silly because he's weaker, he should be pwnd etc.

Originally posted by King KAM
no more than Franklin Richards and Scarlet witch

They twist reality, something Cap cannot do, the day Cap is a top class reality warper, I'll excuse his PIS.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Exactly Pittman it's about the plot.

It seems itchygo or whatever doesn't get that like the rest of us and wants to just shout, it's silly because he's weaker, he should be pwnd etc.

Like i pwned you so much in this thread? Pittman is with me, he can do it a few times, but he does it constantly, it is P-I-S.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
Like i pwned you so much in this thread? Pittman is with me, he can do it a few times, but he does it constantly, it is P-I-S.

You haven't understood most of my posts, because you still don't know what a protagonist is.

Even for a boy going through early stages of puberty you are a little hormonal.

Originally posted by Weyoun
You haven't understood most of my posts, because you still don't know what a protagonist is.

Even for a boy going through early stages of puberty you are a little hormonal.

I do, just because he is in his own comic, doesn't mean he shouldn't lose.

Even for a retard, your still pwnable.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Exactly Pittman it's about the plot.

It seems itchygo or whatever doesn't get that like the rest of us and wants to just shout, it's silly because he's weaker, he should be pwnd etc. It is both. Gambit should take Cap 9/10 times but they would never let that because he is Cap but it still would be PIS. Just because it is part of the storyline doesn’t mean it is not PIS.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
If someone just jumps out of nowhere and attacks him, he maintains his skill and intelligence, but may not have time to use it while he is been whipped about.

Yeah but you dont think somebody with Cap's experience, training and stats would keep his composure....in fact isn't it likely he will? Imagine how much experience he has got from Shield and fighting in WW2 alone. Are you also aware that cap trains constantly, he is fanatical.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666

Iron Man went to the sun in seconds, I think he can hit Cap.

Again, faster than the speed of light?

Originally posted by Ichigo66666

I'm sure Creel can take some punches or touch Caps Shield or something like that around him, he is superior, but Creel isn't a stick. He will hold himself. Creel is going down, if he doesn't grab something. E.G. Caps Shield, which he should be able to do.

Serioulsy im not being patronising I dont think you know how good he is. In human form Creel is just a tough human. Just take a look at Civil War issue 1 and see what Cap did to the agents of Shield who were trained to specifically fight superhumans. Creel is nowhere near that level and Cap made those humans look stupid.

Again Creel is going down before he knows what has hit him.

Originally posted by ThePittman
It is both. Gambit should take Cap 9/10 times but they would never let that because he is Cap but it still would be PIS. Just because it is part of the storyline doesn’t mean it is not PIS.

Well apparently Gambit has kinetically enhanced speed... is this true? This means he does not have enhanced reflexes.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
Iron Man went to the sun in seconds, I think he can hit Cap.


No he didn't, he didn't make it to the sun, he just made it to the moon and early left the battle to upgrade his suit for space travel. Even stated that in the comics.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah but you dont think somebody with Cap's experience, training and stats would keep his composure....in fact isn't it likely he will? Imagine how much experience he has got from Shield and fighting in WW2 alone. Are you also aware that cap trains constantly, he is fanatical.

He is greatly changed, but Creel could take a few punches until he can grab Caps Shield.

Again, faster than the speed of light?

To the sun in seconds? I'm sure it is faster than light.

Serioulsy im not being patronising I dont think you know how good he is. In human form Creel is just a tough human. Just take a look at Civil War issue 1 and see what Cap did to the agents of Shield who were trained to specifically fight superhumans. Creel is nowhere near that level and Cap made those humans look stupid.

Yes, but none were the size of Creel, he can take punches or just grab his shield and turn into Vibranium.

Again Creel is going down before he knows what has hit him.

He never made it to the sun.

Originally posted by ThePittman
It is both. Gambit should take Cap 9/10 times but they would never let that because he is Cap but it still would be PIS. Just because it is part of the storyline doesn’t mean it is not PIS.

Ahh, but the plots are like modern myths and parables.

They deal with the A Vs. B fight at one level for the youngsters who are allowed to buy "Teen +" comics and they deal with deeper more fundemental issuses for those of us old enough to understand them. PIS is fine for children, Character Shields are better for adults as most more mature forums you will find invokes them.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
I do, just because he is in his own comic, doesn't mean he shouldn't lose.

Even for a retard, your still pwnable.

You just don't understand, stick with your pokemon little boy. I'm stopping arguing with you, you're like 13 for christs sake. You don't even understand the concepts i'm using.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Ahh, but the plots are like modern myths and parables.

They deal with the A Vs. B fight at one level for the youngsters who are allowed to buy "Teen +" comics and they deal with deeper more fundemental issuses for those of us old enough to understand them. PIS is fine for children, Character Shields are better for adults as most more mature forums you will find invokes them.

What you fail to understand is, you pass PIS off as "Character Shields."

Same damn thing, you just try to excuse it.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
What you fail to understand is, you pass PIS off as "Character Shields."

Same damn thing, you just try to excuse it.

Now you're almost getting it. They are similar it's not an excuse it's a more adult interpretation and an understanding of the concepts involved in the plot.

You can't be logical when talking about Myths and comic books.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666


Ichi how is a human going to take a punch from somebody who has knocked out Thunderball with one punch or somebody who has made Spiderman loose all feelings in his legs or has hit The Scorpion so hard he couldnt belive it? Creel is not taking a few punches he is going down with one shot.

Well apparently he didnt make it to the sun.

So what youre telling me that because hes bigger that makes him better than an agent of shield who has been trained to fight superhumans? Size = better relexes.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Now you're almost getting it. They are similar it's not an excuse it's a more adult interpretation and an understanding of the concepts involved in the plot.

You can't be logical when talking about Myths and comic books.

You can but not as much as people make out.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
I'm a lost cause? You silly retarded ****, because you can't get over your Cap A. you won't let him lose.

It is, you say he can't loose because he fights for what he wants, as much as he wants, he shouldn't win.

Poor little boy, all those raging hormones are making you mad. Please take a chill pill, or go have a W@nk to calm yourself down. If you are too young to know what a w@nk is, go pull on weener until white stuff comes out !

Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap can see bullets, he can dodge lasers in zero gravity.

He can't "dodge lasers" ... unless you're saying he moves faster than light.

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Poor little boy, all those raging hormones are making you mad. Please take a chill pill, or go have a W@nk to calm yourself down. If you are too young to know what a w@nk is, go pull on weener until white stuff comes out !

I really dont appraciate the rudeness. In all fairness I dont think he should have swore at her, but he was actually in the right in terms of what they were debating about...but no that doesnt give him the right to swear at her unless she was being rude to him.

Prof if you're going to be rude could please go somewhere else.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
No, i'm tense that there is retards and stupid people left in this world. That fail to comprehend logic such as PIS, your Captain is nothing but walking, talking PIS.

My friend that same attitude led to the extermination of disabled people during the second world war. Are you in the Hitler youth ?This is probably why you hate like Captain America so much. Have you not forgiven the Americans for D- Day ?

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Poor little boy, all those raging hormones are making you mad. Please take a chill pill, or go have a W@nk to calm yourself down. If you are too young to know what a w@nk is, go pull on weener until white stuff comes out !

Who the f*ck are you? You f*cking w@nker, coming in here talking sh*t. You know nothing you f*cking sock scum. Die already.

I give up this thread has just turned to crap

Originally posted by Alfheim
I really dont appraciate the rudeness. In all fairness I dont think he should have swore at her, but he was actually in the right in terms of what they were debating about...but no that doesnt give him the right to swear at her unless she was being rude to him.

Prof if you're going to be rude could please go somewhere else.

I apologies for the rudeness, i just think masturbation is a good form of stress release. I do apologies

Originally posted by Alfheim
I give up this thread has just turned to crap
Ask a mod to close it Imo.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I give up this thread has just turned to crap Yeah, it was a good idea, but it will more then likely get closed.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I really dont appraciate the rudeness. In all fairness I dont think he should have swore at her, but he was actually in the right in terms of what they were debating about...but no that doesnt give him the right to swear at her unless she was being rude to him.

Prof if you're going to be rude could please go somewhere else.

Please Prof don't bother he's not worth it.

So explain why he is right, the writers seem to agree with me. As they right good stories using the basic protagonist overcoming odds plotline, which is the staple of heroic fiction.

Put simply, the heroes of action films, books, and TV shows are almost always decisive, aggressive, and disinclined to play by the rules. One does not find many of them obsessed with rumination and consensus-building for the same reason that one finds few impetuous he-men in drawing room comedies: It doesn't work dramatically. They are men of action they exist to avert great evils. They overcome insumountable odds. You call this PIS, I call it character shields and it works in every story of this genre to a greater or lesser degree.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Please Prof don't bother he's not worth it.

So explain why he is right, the writers seem to agree with me. As they right good stories using the basic protagonist overcoming odds plotline, which is the staple of heroic fiction.

Put simply, the heroes of action films, books, and TV shows are almost always decisive, aggressive, and disinclined to play by the rules. One does not find many of them obsessed with rumination and consensus-building for the same reason that one finds few impetuous he-men in drawing room comedies: It doesn't work dramatically. They are men of action they exist to avert great evils. They overcome insumountable odds. You call this PIS, I call it character shields and it works in every story of this genre to a greater or lesser degree.

Ok i'll try to explain. The whole purpose of this forum is to try and create a place where charachters fight without PIS or characters shield. Its almost as if you put the characters in the real world. Just this simple fact...in the comics the heroes always win. In real life that would not happen.

Nobody is saying that the human spirit is a non factor, but it wont help all the time. Take Hannibal for example he was trying to protect his people from being conquered by The Romans, he was right to do so but he lost in the end. Also there was a Welsh General who fought against Henry V because The English were opressing The Welsh. He lost and his wife and daughters were imprisoned, So im sorry the human spirit doesnt always overcome evil.

At the same time we have characters who have been biten by radioactive spiders and been hit by nuclear explosions instead of dying have gained superhuman powers, so there is also alot of illogical stuff to.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok i'll try to explain. The whole purpose of this forum is to try and create a place where charachters fight without PIS or characters shield. Its almost as if you put the characters in the real world. Just this simple fact...in the comics the heroes always win. In real life that would not happen.

Nobody is saying that the human spirit is a non factor, but it wont help all the time. Take Hannibal for example he was trying to protect his people from being conquered by The Romans, he was right to do so but he lost in the end. Also there was a Welsh General who fought against Henry V because The English were opressing The Welsh. He lost and his wife and daughters were imprisoned, So im sorry the human spirit doesnt always overcome evil.

At the same time we have characters who have been biten by radioactive spiders and been hit by nuclear explosions instead of dying have gained superhuman powers, so there is also alot of illogical stuff to.

So it's like a game of match the atributes which we know real life really isn't like, for example on paper Ali should never have been able to beat Foreman the way he did. The tale of the tape says no way and yet with heroic effort and strategy he did.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok i'll try to explain. The whole purpose of this forum is to try and create a place where charachters fight without PIS or characters shield. Its almost as if you put the characters in the real world. Just this simple fact...in the comics the heroes always win. In real life that would not happen.

Nobody is saying that the human spirit is a non factor, but it wont help all the time. Take Hannibal for example he was trying to protect his people from being conquered by The Romans, he was right to do so but he lost in the end. Also there was a Welsh General who fought against Henry V because The English were opressing The Welsh. He lost and his wife and daughters were imprisoned, So im sorry the human spirit doesnt always overcome evil.

At the same time we have characters who have been biten by radioactive spiders and been hit by nuclear explosions instead of dying have gained superhuman powers, so there is also alot of illogical stuff to.

What is PIS, im note entirely sure ? Does it have something to do with urine ?

Originally posted by Weyoun
So it's like a game of match the atributes which we know real life really isn't like, for example on paper Ali should never have been able to beat Foreman the way he did. The tale of the tape says no way and yet with heroic effort and strategy he did.

Well...ok this is abit confusing for me because its like I agree with what you're saying and I agree with ichi but there are certain areas in which I disagree with both of you. So its going to be hard for me to explain my position.

Well I agree with what you are saying about Ali and Foreman, but the difference is on this forum we hve somebody like Cap knocking out somebody who is 10 times stronger than him in one punch. The Ali vs Foreman match does prove that the human spirit is powerful but Ali never fought somebody who could lift 10 tons if that happened Ali would have died, but in a comic Ali may have beaten the 10 toner. Ali beating the 10 toner would be PIS.

At the same time Cap is better than Ali. Cap can see bullets, he can dodge lasers in zero gravity. Futhermore there are other superheroes like Mantis who have human strength and have the ability to knock out Thor!

So eventhough we are trying to be more realistic sometimes logic goes out of the window. How can a human being see bullets? In the real world they cant but in the comics Cap can. So what we try to do is to get the attributes of the heroes in the comic and try and put them in a more realistic envinronment.

So eventhough Cap can see bullets he will lose against Profesor X because we know Caps mind is not strong enough to protect him from Professor X's mental assault. If Cap was able to beat Prof X in a comic without a rational explanation that is PIS and is not allowed on this forum.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well...ok this is abit confusing for me because its like I agree with what you're saying and I agree with ichi but there are certain areas in which I disagree with both of you. So its going to be hard for me to explain my position.

Well I agree with what you are saying about Ali and Foreman, but the difference is on this forum we hve somebody like Cap knocking out somebody who is 10 times stronger than him in one punch. The Ali vs Foreman match does prove that the human spirit is powerful but Ali never fought somebody who could lift 10 tons if that happened Ali would have died, but in a comic Ali may have beaten the 10 toner. Ali beating the 10 toner would be PIS.

At the same time Cap is better than Ali. Cap can see bullets, he can dodge lasers in zero gravity. Futhermore there are other superheroes like Mantis who have human strength and have the ability to knock out Thor!

So eventhough we are trying to be more realistic sometimes logic goes out of the window. How can a human being see bullets? In the real world they cant but in the comics Cap can. So what we try to do is to get the attributes of the heroes in the comic and try and put them in a more realistic envinronment.

The point is bullies have glass jaws, at least in fiction, it doesn't matter if the can lift a hundred tons or 40Kg. This holds true to a point in real life, take Mike Tyson for example. Once Buster Dougls beat him because his head wasn't right, people like Holyfield knew how to tear him apart and of course Lennox unbeknown to us all had proven this in sparring almost a decade earlier.

Originally posted by Weyoun
The point is bullies have glass jaws, at least in fiction, it doesn't matter if the can lift a hundred tons or 40Kg. This holds true to a point in real life, take Mike Tyson for example. Once Buster Dougls beat him because his head wasn't right, people like Holyfield knew how to tear him apart and of course Lennox unbeknown to us all had proven this in sparring almost a decade earlier.

Sorry not sure what you're point is, you're saying alot of stuff....

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well I agree with what you are saying about Ali and Foreman, but the difference is on this forum we hve somebody like Cap knocking out somebody who is 10 times stronger than him in one punch. The Ali vs Foreman match does prove that the human spirit is powerful but Ali never fought somebody who could lift 10 tons if that happened Ali would have died, but in a comic Ali may have beaten the 10 toner. Ali beating the 10 toner would be PIS.

I think a better comparison is Terminator 1. When you consider that the human was able to take down a device that was many times more powerful, its plausibles. Cap is master of tactics and h2h combat, to the point that he is aware of all physical weak spots and pressure points, its not hard to comprehend him beating physically superior characters.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Sorry not sure what you're point is, you're saying alot of stuff....

I think shes saying; badguys go down more easilly, due to mental instability.

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Cap is master of tactics and h2h combat, to the point that he is aware of all physical weak spots and pressure points, its not hard to comprehend him beating physically superior characters.

I agree and he is enhanced as well.


Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
I think shes saying; badguys go down more easilly, due to mental instability.

If she is that dont make sense.

Originally posted by Alfheim





If she is that dont make sense.

Although she has provided viable examples from the real world, where mental instability can drastically effect a fighters performance ?

Originally posted by Alfheim





If she is that dont make sense.

Wooops double post !

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Although she has provided viable examples from the real world, where mental instability can drastically effect a fighters performance ?

Well I have given examples of people who have been fighting for a good cause but have lost. You also cant compare Tyson to Dr Doom or Red Skull. To be quite honest he lost because he ahdnt been training as hard. Whe he knoked out all those other guys he could still be considered to be unstable.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well I have given examples of people who have been fighting for a good cause but have lost. You also cant compare Tyson to Dr Doom or Red Skull. To be quite honest he lost because he ahdnt been training as hard. Whe he knoked out all those other guys he could still be considered to be unstable.

IMO lack of training was caused / and lead to greater mental instability. Golf and football are the best examples of this. I think most people see Super heroes and villains as robots, i.e. unaffected by the ravages of mental insecurity

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
IMO lack of training was caused / and lead to greater mental instability. Golf and football are the best examples of this.

Yeah I said that as well.

One thing that is over looked is many story lines are PIS for example anything dealing with Flash or Superman. If these characters fought to their normal potential then no one could beat them so they either de-power them for fights to make it more enjoyable to readers. Does it make a good read that Cap can defeat Iron Man, yes but it doesn’t mean that it is not PIS because Cap couldn’t beat him without major luck or stupidity on Iron Mans part.

Originally posted by ThePittman
One thing that is over looked is many story lines are PIS for example anything dealing with Flash or Superman. If these characters fought to their normal potential then no one could beat them so they either de-power them for fights to make it more enjoyable to readers. Does it make a good read that Cap can defeat Iron Man, yes but it doesn’t mean that it is not PIS because Cap couldn’t beat him without major luck or stupidity on Iron Mans part.

CAP CNA DEFT NE1 WIT BIN EROTIC, I MEAN PATRIOTIC AND ENOUGH WILL!

Originally posted by ThePittman
One thing that is over looked is many story lines are PIS for example anything dealing with Flash or Superman. If these characters fought to their normal potential then no one could beat them so they either de-power them for fights to make it more enjoyable to readers. Does it make a good read that Cap can defeat Iron Man, yes but it doesn’t mean that it is not PIS because Cap couldn’t beat him without major luck or stupidity on Iron Mans part.

Well like I said. Cap can see bullets, he can dodge lasers in zero gravity. Mantis can knock out Thor.....Mantis has human strength.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
CAP CNA DEFT NE1 WIT BIN EROTIC, I MEAN PATRIOTIC AND ENOUGH WILL!

I thought we were gonna stop that? Well you still have not rebutted my posts yet. All the evidence shows that a human creel wont stand a chance against cap and apparently Iron Man did not fly to the Sun in seconds.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well like I said. Cap can see bullets, he can dodge lasers in zero gravity. Mantis can knock out Thor.....Mantis has human strength.



I thought we were gonna stop that? Well you still have not rebutted my posts yet. All the evidence shows that a human creel wont stand a chance against cap and apparently Iron Man did not fly to the Sun in seconds.

Creel will take a few punches, or just grab Caps shield, he only need's the slightest touch. Really? I'm sure he did :s Something like that.

Why should I stop? Socks United are attacking me, I'm attacking back, my last comment was perfectly ok and puts her comments into one sentence.

Originally posted by Alfheim



I thought we were gonna stop that? Well you still have not rebutted my posts yet. All the evidence shows that a human creel wont stand a chance against cap and apparently Iron Man did not fly to the Sun in seconds.

He still hasn't spanked his monkey !

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
He still hasn't spanked his monkey !

No, just your mother.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666


Why should I stop? Socks United are attacking me, I'm attacking back, my last comment was perfectly ok and puts her comments into one sentence.

No you made a callus attempt to be funny !

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
No, just your mother.

Nah she doesn't screw 13 year olds.

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
No you made a callus attempt to be funny !

A sock isn't worth my hand getting sore.

pitt_sockpitt_sockpitt_sockpitt_sockpitt_sockpitt_
sockpitt_sockpitt_sockpitt_sockpitt_sock

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Nah she doesn't screw 13 year olds.

You'd be suprised.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well like I said. Cap can see bullets, he can dodge lasers in zero gravity. Mantis can knock out Thor.....Mantis has human strength.



I thought we were gonna stop that? Well you still have not rebutted my posts yet. All the evidence shows that a human creel wont stand a chance against cap and apparently Iron Man did not fly to the Sun in seconds. Cap dodging bullets or lasers is total PIS, he can dodge the shooter but not the projectile, he is only peek human performance and where it looks good in comics no human could dodge bullets or lasers.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
Creel will take a few punches, or just grab Caps shield, he only need's the slightest touch. Really? I'm sure he did :s Something like that.



Well ok im done. Seriously you need to take a look at a Cap comic. You were arguing that because Creel is bigger that somehow he would be better at fighting Cap than agents of shield.....thats not very good.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well ok im done. Seriously you need to take a look at a Cap comic. You were arguing that because Creel is bigger that somehow he would be better at fighting Cap than agents of shield.....thats not very good.

I never said that, I said he never thought a SHIELD agent of Creels size. Creel could take some punches and/or just tap his Shield-Vibranium Creel.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Cap dodging bullets or lasers is total PIS, he can dodge the shooter but not the projectile, he is only peek human performance and where it looks good in comics no human could dodge bullets or lasers.

Cap has also been discribed as being enhanced human. Even if he was peak human how do you know that human beings cant dodge bullets if they were at peak potential, do you know what the limit of human potential is? So eventhoug he said that he can see bullets its PIS? So is Mantis knocking out Thor PIS eventhough it states in her profile in black and white that she can evenhough she has a human strength level.

Originally posted by Ichigo66666
I never said that, I said he never thought a SHIELD agent of Creels size. Creel could take some punches and/or just tap his Shield-Vibranium Creel.

Well I think you said something like that im too tired to get the quote. Furthermore you're not listening to me....look at what Cap did to the agents of shield. Creel is nowhere near as fast as they are and Cap has knocked out Thunderball with one punch.

If Cap can move so fast that trained humans can barely see him. Creel is not going to be able to react or touch his shield. Creel is not tough enough to take more than one punch from him either.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap has also been discribed as being enhanced human. Even if he was peak human how do you know that human beings cant dodge bullets if they were at peak potential, do you know what the limit of human potential is? So eventhoug he said that he can see bullets its PIS? So is Mantis knocking out Thor PIS eventhough it states in her profile in black and white that she can evenhough she has a human strength level.

Because the humans in the MU are based with the normal humans that are now, even at peek human performance (Marvel’s Bio) the speed of a bullet is faster then a human’s reaction time; if he is beyond these then he is above human abilities which would basically make him have a mutant ability.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Because the humans in the MU are based with the normal humans that are now, even at peek human performance (Marvel’s Bio) the speed of a bullet is faster then a human’s reaction time; if he is beyond these then he is above human abilities which would basically make him have a mutant ability.


They maybe human but they are obvously more powerful. I think the design of a plane was partially based on a bird does that mean it has to be slow as a bird?

Well is it PIS that Moondragon can learn to have vast psionic powers? Is it PIS that Dr Strange can learn to have vast magical powers? Is it PIS that Mantis can learn to knock out Thor?

If they are human and they can LEARN how to do what they do, why cant cap dodge bullets.

Originally posted by Alfheim
They maybe human but they are obvously more powerful. I think the design of a plane was partially based on a bird does that mean it has to be slow as a bird?

Well is it PIS that Moondragon can learn to have vast psionic powers? Is it PIS that Dr Strange can learn to have vast magical powers? Is it PIS that Mantis can learn to knock out Thor?

If they are human and they can LEARN how to do what they do, why cant cap dodge bullets. There is a difference between learned knowledge then human abilities, can Cap dodge the shooter yes but not the speed of a bullet or much less light.

Originally posted by ThePittman
There is a difference between learned knowledge then human abilities, can Cap dodge the shooter yes but not the speed of a bullet or much less light.

No no no. Mantis has learnt how to knock out Thor.....she is still human......Moondragon learnt how to have psionic powers....do the math. If Cap is human he has the SS serum and trains how is it impossible for him to dodge bullets when you have other humans who have learnt how to fly.

Alot of Caps powers come from learnt knowledge.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap has also been discribed as being enhanced human. Even if he was peak human how do you know that human beings cant dodge bullets if they were at peak potential, do you know what the limit of human potential is? So eventhoug he said that he can see bullets its PIS? So is Mantis knocking out Thor PIS eventhough it states in her profile in black and white that she can evenhough she has a human strength level.

I know its not the most viable source, but in The Watchmen, Alan Moore proposes that at Human peak potential we may even be able to catch bullets, as done by Ozymandias. Who is this Mantis you keep going on about ?

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
I know its not the most viable source, but in The Watchmen, Alan Moore proposes that at Human peak potential we may even be able to catch bullets, as done by Ozymandias. Who is this Mantis you keep going on about ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_%28Marvel_Comics%29#Powers

Originally posted by Alfheim
No no no. Mantis has learnt how to knock out Thor.....she is still human......Moondragon learnt how to have psionic powers....do the math. If Cap is human he has the SS serum and trains how is it impossible for him to dodge bullets when you have other humans who have learnt how to fly.

Alot of Caps powers come from learnt knowledge. You don’t seem to get it, I don’t know much about Mantis but if they are human they couldn’t knock out Thor without MAJOR PIS. There is a difference, a big difference between learning something such as doing magic, building robots or what ever and physical abilities. In the MU, you can not “learn” how to fly unless you have a mutant ability so that doesn’t even come into play here.

A human can not “learn” how to think faster then a computer, it is not possible for the human brain to think faster then a computer and he would need that kind of processing speed and ability to see and react to a bullet after being fired, PERIOD. He has superb reflexes and reaction time compared to any human so he can see where the bad guy is pointing the gun and when he is pulling the trigger and moves from the direction of the gun but if he hasn’t moved from that spot once fired he would be hit.

Originally posted by Alfheim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis_%28Marvel_Comics%29#Powers

She's very like Oszymandias from Watchmen.

Originally posted by ThePittman
You don’t seem to get it, I don’t know much about Mantis but if they are human they couldn’t knock out Thor without MAJOR PIS. There is a difference, a big difference between learning something such as doing magic, building robots or what ever and physical abilities. In the MU, you can not “learn” how to fly unless you have a mutant ability so that doesn’t even come into play here.



I hasten to guess that every human Esq superhero, has a weak spot of sorts. Its a intrinsic rule of Entropy that nothing can be perfect, even so called Gods. Been able to expose and penetrate pressure points and weak spots, is not a Super power as such, but provides and adequate explanation for how people like cap can take down the likes of Iron man and the Thing. the same goes for Mantis.

Originally posted by ThePittman
A human can not “learn” how to think faster then a computer, it is not possible for the human brain to think faster then a computer and he would need that kind of processing speed and ability to see and react to a bullet after being fired, PERIOD.

How do you know what human consciousness is not capable of potentially?. It perplexes scientists, philosophers and psychologists through out the world how much the brain seems to almost transcend reality and time. Sportsmen have displayed a weird trait known as 'being in the zone' which allows them to view and slow down events that would be usually impossible to see. Imagine if this ability was enhanced to the Nth degree, as it has been with Cap.

Originally posted by ThePittman
You don’t seem to get it, I don’t know much about Mantis but if they are human they couldn’t knock out Thor without MAJOR PIS.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Mantis

Mantis

Abilities
Through training with the Priests of Pama, Mantis attained "complete control" over her body, achieving peak human agility, the ability to accelerate her recuperative powers through force of will, and an empathic nature enabling her to sense the emotions of others as "psychic vibrations." Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor.


Originally posted by ThePittman

There is a difference, a big difference between learning something such as doing magic, building robots or what ever and physical abilities.

Why does there have to be? Dr Doom can build a time travel machine. Can anybody build anything like a time travel machine in the real world? So Doom can build time travel machines but cap cant dodge bullets and yes he can dodge bullets in mid-flight. According to your logic Doom should not be able to build a time machine.




Originally posted by ThePittman
In the MU, you can not “learn” how to fly unless you have a mutant ability so that doesn’t even come into play here.



Oh really then whats this then:

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Moondragon

Moondragon

Powers
Moondragon's psionic powers include telepathy, mind control, personality alteration, memory modification, illusion casting, levitation and force blasts.

Heather was raised by Titan's Shao-Lom monks, whose TUTELAGE (no genetic manipulation) awakened her latent psionic powers while helping her achieve physical and intellectual perfection.


Originally posted by ThePittman

and he would need that kind of processing speed and ability to see and react to a bullet after being fired, PERIOD. He has superb reflexes and reaction time compared to any human so he can see where the bad guy is pointing the gun and when he is pulling the trigger and moves from the direction of the gun but if he hasn’t moved from that spot once fired he would be hit.

Well I have given you examples of humasn who ahve learnt how to ahve super powers. IF you can accept that Dr Doom can learn how to build time machines but you dont want to accept that Cap can train to a level that he can dodge bullets that is illogical.

No it is not illogical, you reasoning is. With Moondragon she has learned an ability of Psionic which allows her to access these abilities, Cap hasn’t. The only abilities that Cap has access to are psychical abilities, nothing meta-physical or mystical. She has learned something that allows her to access these gifts so that would fall into the rage of the meta-physical not physical; here physical description is still peak human.

The ability to learn and understand time and create a machine that will travel through time is not limited to human limitations, you can learn and remember the entire library if you wanted to but you still think at the same speed.

Originally posted by ThePittman
No it is not illogical, you reasoning is. With Moondragon she has learned an ability of Psionic which allows her to access these abilities, Cap hasn’t. The only abilities that Cap has access to are psychical abilities, nothing meta-physical or mystical. She has learned something that allows her to access these gifts so that would fall into the rage of the meta-physical not physical; here physical description is still peak human.


How do you know what human consciousness is not capable of potentially?. It perplexes scientists, philosophers and psychologists through out the world how much the brain seems to almost transcend reality and time. Sportsmen have displayed a weird trait known as 'being in the zone' which allows them to view and slow down events that would be usually impossible to see. Imagine if this ability was enhanced to the Nth degree, as it has been with Cap.

Originally posted by ThePittman
No it is not illogical, you reasoning is.

No it isnt, you are picking and choosing your logic to suit your arguement.

Originally posted by ThePittman

With Moondragon she has learned an ability of Psionic which allows her to access these abilities, Cap hasn’t.

Yeah but earlier on you were telling me that you had to be a mutant to have these abilities, no you're telling me its ok. Whats going on?


Originally posted by ThePittman

The only abilities that Cap has access to are psychical abilities, nothing meta-physical or mystical. She has learned something that allows her to access these gifts so that would fall into the rage of the meta-physical not physical; here physical description is still peak human.

You're missing the point. Both Moondragon and Cap are human they both have skills. and both of them ahve learnt do things that human beings cant do in the real world. Moondragons skills come from meditation is it clear cut in the real world that meditation can give you powers??? So human beings cant leviatate in the real world but you're ok that she can in the comic, but when cap learns to dodge bullets its PIS.


Originally posted by ThePittman

The ability to learn and understand time and create a machine that will travel through time is not limited to human limitations, you can learn and remember the entire library if you wanted to but you still think at the same speed.

So let me get this straight right, building a time machine is not PIS but dodging bullets is?

The “zone” doesn’t mean diddly squat, this is a description of someone that is doing really good at what they have been trained to do and many factors come into play. Yes people have done some amazing stuff that “seems” to deify logic but you are talking about someone seeing something that is traveling from 600 to 1200 ft/s, the human brain process information around 30 m/s. All the descriptions that you have given are all relative and not based on any proven fact, people can not see in slow motion. There are physical limits to the human body so unless he has been altered past that, reforming muscles, brain chemistry and neuron speed he can not react to a bullet when fired.

It is not PIS if the character is described to be super smart and that it is in their bio. It would be PIS if Deadpool created a time machine. I used the term “mutant” because I didn’t want to list of the different things in the MU such as mystical, meta-human, cosmic and so forth, each of these are not in the peek human performance. MU gives these abilities or “learned” talents if they don’t want “mutants” but no where is Cap said to have any of these abilities, show me where it says that he does.

Originally posted by ThePittman
The “zone” doesn’t mean diddly squat, this is a description of someone that is doing really good at what they have been trained to do and many factors come into play. Yes people have done some amazing stuff that “seems” to deify logic but you are talking about someone seeing something that is traveling from 600 to 1200 ft/s, the human brain process information around 30 m/s. All the descriptions that you have given are all relative and not based on any proven fact, people can not see in slow motion. There are physical limits to the human body so unless he has been altered past that, reforming muscles, brain chemistry and neuron speed he can not react to a bullet when fired.

Pitt have you ever had a near death experience,then you see peak human, time seems to slow down due to quicker thinking, the consciousness stream improves (you notice stuff better) and im sure you've heard of mothers pulling cars of children

Originally posted by quickshot
Pitt have you ever had a near death experience,then you see peak human, time seems to slow down due to quicker thinking, the consciousness stream improves (you notice stuff better) and im sure you've heard of mothers pulling cars of children Near death is total BS and not even valid for this discussion. A mother lifting up a car is just an adrenalin rush to her muscles that gives her temporary increases in strength, it doesn’t mean that she thinks any faster or react any faster then her body could already.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Yes people have done some amazing stuff that “seems” to deify logic but you are talking about someone seeing something that is traveling from 600 to 1200 ft/s, the human brain process information around 30 m/s. All the descriptions that you have given are all relative and not based on any proven fact, people can not see in slow motion. There are physical limits to the human body so unless he has been altered past that, reforming muscles, brain chemistry and neuron speed he can not react to a bullet when fired.

As i stated previously Athletes have demonstrated the ability to see speeding objects, that brain chemistry and reaction speeds have determined seemingly impossible. And as i stated before, it has perplexed scientist for centuries how conscious seem to have some meta physical properties that transcend time and space. Imagine what a super soldier, enhanced physically and mentally would be capable of.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Near death is total BS and not even valid for this discussion. A mother lifting up a car is just an adrenalin rush to her muscles that gives her temporary increases in strength, it doesn’t mean that she thinks any faster or react any faster then her body could already.

Just think about it, if a mother has demonstrated that her muscles are capable such feats, then cap is also capable of equalling if not surpassing them. The Super Soldier serum has made Cap the best at everything humans can accomplish, and more.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Near death is total BS and not even valid for this discussion. A mother lifting up a car is just an adrenalin rush to her muscles that gives her temporary increases in strength, it doesn’t mean that she thinks any faster or react any faster then her body could already. Wow i never said it surpassed potential it just removes the safety limiters which everyone has, and lets us reach our individual maximum potential

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
As i stated previously Athletes have demonstrated the ability to see speeding objects, that brain chemistry and reaction speeds have determined seemingly impossible. And as i stated before, it has perplexed scientist for centuries how conscious seem to have some meta physical properties that transcend time and space. Imagine what a super soldier, enhanced physically and mentally would be capable of. Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Just think about it, if a mother has demonstrated that her muscles are capable such feats, then cap is also capable of equalling if not surpassing them. The Super Soldier serum has made Cap the best at everything humans can accomplish, and more. All of the feats that you have talked about are not beyond their normal capabilities; a baseball traveling at 100 mph is hardly even close to 600 f/s. Even pro baseball player really don’t even see the ball, it is the trained muscle memory and instincts that allow them to even hit the ball, if they could see the ball and react then how do they get hit by the ball? Humans are limited by the ability of the chemical reaction time that it takes for the signal to be sent from the mind to its muscles so unless this process is changed it can not go faster. The thing is MU allows for this meta-physical but Cap doesn’t possess these abilities, he can do things that a normal human is not capable of but he has not surpassed them, if he has then it would have been stated in Marvel’s bio.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Humans are limited by the ability of the chemical reaction time that it takes for the signal to be sent from the mind to its muscles so unless this process is changed it can not go faster.

I'm might be wrong but i thought it was the actual process subconscious/conscious stimulation and muscle contraction, that slows the entire process down. I know for a fact that the process action potentials (i.e. e;electrical impulses), are immensely faster than a speeding bullet.

Originally posted by ThePittman
The thing is MU allows for this meta-physical but Cap doesn’t possess the