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It's the comic industry and its fans racist or not? Why it is that when a black character gets a book everyone seems to instantly agree that the art or the writer sucks but when the character is white they love him even if the writer and the artist are the same? Why the comic industry keeps making the same mistakes over and over while expecting to have different results? Why it is that when a black writer speaks about race and discrimination he is immediatly chalked as racist but when a white does the same he becomes a hero and is prized by his effort? Why can't the fanboys tolerate a strong, intelligent black hero?

Originally posted by Francisco
It's the comic industry and its fans racist or not? Why it is that when a black character gets a book everyone seems to instantly agree that the art or the writer sucks but when the character is white they love him even if the writer and the artist are the same? Why the comic industry keeps making the same mistakes over and over while expecting to have different results? Why it is that when a black writer speaks about race and discrimination he is immediatly chalked as racist but when a white does the same he becomes a hero and is prized by his effort? Why can't the fanboys tolerate a strong, intelligent black hero?

You mean the present Black Panther series?

I dunno, personally I find that some of the Black Characters are amazingly cool.

I am mostly thinking about blacks I have to admit. Don't know many Arab or Asian heroes.

But Steel, Black Panther and Mr. Terrific (II?) seem to be some of the best coolest characters there are.

Also, Chasing Amy is a good movie.

Originally posted by Weyoun
You mean the present Black Panther series? Amongst others.
BP is just one example of the industry's treatment of black characters and the reaction of fanboys/closet racist/nerdbiggots. As long as the character is white they would tolerate and even prize whatever nonsense the writers come up with but if the character isn't white or white looking they will whine, scream and curse no matter how good the wrting might be.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Also, Chasing Amy is a good movie.

Yeah, but that Hooper X character wasn't very good; he was weak and a racist.

Originally posted by Ya Krunk'd Floo
Yeah, but that Hooper X character wasn't very good; he was weak and a racist. Agreed.

Originally posted by Francisco
Amongst others.
BP is just one example of the industry's treatment of black characters and the reaction of fanboys/closet racist/nerdbiggots. As long as the character is white they would tolerate and even prize whatever nonsense the writers come up with but if the character isn't white or white looking they will whine, scream and curse no matter how good the wrting might be.

I have no problems with the present Black Panther run, I think giving him "the ebony blade" is cheap. I didn't like Doom being turned into a Nazi specially given his heritage and why his mother went to hell. It seemed stupid. Otherwise it's fine.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4031/bp19ag5.th.jpg
For reference. Here's some of the awesome awesome writing the OP is referring to.

After belittling the European Latverian culture, Black Panther, while wearing a full body suit -- which doesn't allow for one to distinguish his race -- makes a comment about how the Latverians are staring at them because they're black, hypocritically forgetting that his own country is isolationist and xenophobic.Originally posted by Bardock42
I dunno, personally I find that some of the Black Characters are amazingly cool.

I am mostly thinking about blacks I have to admit. Don't know many Arab or Asian heroes.There aren't many and almost all of them come from X-Men, at least in Marvel. Can't think of Asian or Arab DC characters off the top of my head.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Also, Chasing Amy is a good movie. Indeed.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4031/bp19ag5.th.jpg
For reference. Here's some of the awesome awesome writing the OP is referring to.



Exactly

Originally posted by Weyoun
I have no problems with the present Black Panther run, I think giving him "the ebony blade" is cheap. I didn't like Doom being turned into a Nazi specially given his heritage and why his mother went to hell. It seemed stupid. Otherwise it's fine.

Apparently sarcasm is lost on you, dear.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
There aren't many and almost all of them come from X-Men, at least in Marvel. Can't think of Asian or Arab DC characters off the top of my head. It is kinda true, thinking about it though.

There are only very few other than white races. Does J'onn J'onnz count?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Apparently sarcasm is lost on you, dear.

Exactly, are you a girl as well?

Originally posted by Bardock42
It is kinda true, thinking about it though.

There are only very few other than white races. Does J'onn J'onnz count? He's a whole 'nother species though. Actually thought of a DC character, Batgirl is Asian.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Exactly, are you a girl as well? No, probable sock.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
No, probable sock.

I was sock checked last night. I am not a sock.

I am a girl who likes comics and films that's all, I can't believe the hostility on this forum.

I don't much care if you are a sock or not.

This thread will probably be moved.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
He's a whole 'nother species though. Actually thought of a DC character, Batgirl is Asian.

Didn't she go evil? I stopped my Batman stuff. Bored me. Only shit runs lately.

Oh, by the way, Karate Kid is asian I believe. Originally posted by Weyoun
I was sock checked last night. I am not a sock.

I am a girl who likes comics and films that's all, I can't believe the hostility on this forum. If you are hot I might like you.

Originally posted by Francisco
It's the comic industry and its fans racist or not? Why it is that when a black character gets a book everyone seems to instantly agree that the art or the writer sucks but when the character is white they love him even if the writer and the artist are the same? Why the comic industry keeps making the same mistakes over and over while expecting to have different results? Why it is that when a black writer speaks about race and discrimination he is immediatly chalked as racist but when a white does the same he becomes a hero and is prized by his effort? Why can't the fanboys tolerate a strong, intelligent black hero?

Storm

She's pretty cool I believe, can't think of any other black people out there but I would hardly call that a side affect of racism...

Originally posted by Bardock42
Didn't she go evil? I stopped my Batman stuff. Bored me. Only shit runs lately.

Oh, by the way, Karate Kid is asian I believe. If you are hot I might like you.

I am blonde and about 5ft 7" I play a lot of netball and tennis in the summer.

Then you have Arabian night, Falcon, Shang Chi etc. etc.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Didn't she go evil? I stopped my Batman stuff. Bored me. Only shit runs lately. If you are hot I might like you. I think so. Are we only looking for heroes?

Psylocke - but she's not really asian.
Jubilee
Sunfire

Off the top of my head.

In DC, the girl Dr Light.

Leave the maybegirl alone you German swine.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I don't much care if you are a sock or not.

This thread will probably be moved. If you don't care why would you bring it up? A saw your scans, yes BP is all covered up by the suit but they can see Ororo and ins't she black? And yes BP is acting like a person from a xenophobic and isolationist culture would act.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I don't much care if you are a sock or not.

This thread will probably be moved.

Why did you become so hostile then and call me sock? It was uncalled for wasn't it?

Originally posted by Francisco
If you don't care why would you bring it up?

Thank you Frisco.

Originally posted by Francisco
If you don't care why would you bring it up? A saw your scans, yes BP is all covered up by the suit but they can see Ororo and ins't she black? And yes BP is acting like a person from a xenophobic and isolationist culture would act.
People from xenophobic isolationist nations are all hypocrites? Ok then.
Originally posted by Fishy
Storm

She's pretty cool I believe, can't think of any other black people out there but I would hardly call that a side affect of racism... Courtesy of wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_superheroes

Originally posted by Weyoun
I am blonde and about 5ft 7" I play a lot of netball and tennis in the summer.

Then you have Arabian night, Falcon, Shang Chi etc. etc.

Well, a possible hot possible sock.

Lets see, DC has a lot of Alien Races. It's not that bad with black people in DC I think.

Though I feel embarrassed by the lack of non-white and non-black characters. Then again those don't exist. Right, x-spot?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Courtesy of wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_superheroes

Thank you now that contributed t the thread more than anything else you have done in trying to be a smart alec.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, a possible hot possible sock.

Lets see, DC has a lot of Alien Races. It's not that bad with black people in DC I think.

Though I feel embarrassed by the lack of non-white and non-black characters. Then again those don't exist. Right, x-spot? Wonder Woman's made from clay. Is she still white?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Courtesy of wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_superheroes

The very fact that a list like that exists is kinda sad, but whatever... And that's a lot of black characters, so what are people complaining about?

also that guy from the comic is an idiot? Thinking people are staring at him because he's black, did he ever think that it perhaps had something to do with their incredibly idiotic clothing and that the mayor himself would greet them?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, a possible hot possible sock.



I'm an imposible sock as I have been examined. hehe. You're funny though, I have to do some homework I am back at school on Thursday.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Wonder Woman's made from clay. Is she still white?

Yes, obviously, her mum used white clay.

Originally posted by Fishy
The very fact that a list like that exists is kinda sad, but whatever... And that's a lot of black characters, so what are people complaining about?

also that guy from the comic is an idiot? Thinking people are staring at him because he's black, did he ever think that it perhaps had something to do with their incredibly idiotic clothing and that the mayor himself would greet them? More from the same awesome comic:
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/1904/doomcf8.th.jpg

Dr Doom, one of the greatest and highly complex comic villains. Inspiration for Vader yadayada... reduced to a petty racist.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
More from the same awesome comic:
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/1904/doomcf8.th.jpg

Dr Doom, one of the greatest and highly complex comic villains. Inspiration for Vader yadayada... reduced to a petty racist.

Which given his mothers background and his bloodline is stupid.

then again only nordic white europeans can be racist.

Originally posted by Francisco
then again only nordic white europeans can be racist.

I look a bit like a nordic white european but I am not racist.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
More from the same awesome comic:
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/1904/doomcf8.th.jpg

Dr Doom, one of the greatest and highly complex comic villains. Inspiration for Vader yadayada... reduced to a petty racist.

WHAT!!! They actually put this is in a comic???? ****ing disgusting.

Hudlin should get sacked.

Originally posted by Francisco
then again only nordic white europeans can be racist. No. All people can be racist. Like Hudlin. He's black and he holds strong prejudicial bigoted views about white people. Ergo objectively, he is a racist. Alternatively he isn't really and just has very poor writing skills making his comics come across in such a manner.

Dr Doom is not a racial supremacist. He is an intellectual supremacist, and views himself as better than all people regardless of race.

You and FistOfTheNorth should get a room.

That's not the first time Doom has made racistic statements. Several years ago he invaded Latveria and made comments quite like the ones in those scans. Both BP and Doom were portrayed as pricks I don't think Hudlin was been unfair with his portrayal of both characters.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
More from the same awesome comic:
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/1904/doomcf8.th.jpg

Dr Doom, one of the greatest and highly complex comic villains. Inspiration for Vader yadayada... reduced to a petty racist.

That's stupid and I never really liked comics all that much...

What a freaking idiotic writer, of course everybody hates that comic. And it looks to me like there is only one person with a disturbed view on races and that's the writer of the damned comic, what an idiot.

Originally posted by Francisco
That's not the first time Doom has made racistic statements. Several years ago he invaded Latveria and made comments quite like the ones in those scans. Both BP and Doom were portrayed as pricks I don't think Hudlin was been unfair with his portrayal of both characters.

It is just not...very Doom, you know?

Originally posted by Fishy
The very fact that a list like that exists is kinda sad, but whatever... And that's a lot of black characters, so what are people complaining about?

also that guy from the comic is an idiot? Thinking people are staring at him because he's black, did he ever think that it perhaps had something to do with their incredibly idiotic clothing and that the mayor himself would greet them?

Thats because there never used to be alot of decent black characters...ghezzzzzz.



Originally posted by Francisco
That's not the first time Doom has made racistic statements. Several years ago he invaded Latveria and made comments quite like the ones in those scans. Both BP and Doom were portrayed as pricks I don't think Hudlin was been unfair with his portrayal of both characters.

Well until you get the scans lets assume you're talking nonsense. You know what, whwt exactly are you complaining about?

Latveria is in east Europe. Last time a checkd there were not too many black people there. Why wouldn't BP assume that the Latverians haven't seen a black person in their lives?

Yes Doom is a scientist. Haven't you heard about scientific racism?

Originally posted by Francisco
Latveria is in east Europe. Last time a checkd there were not too many black people there. Why wouldn't BP assume that the Latverians haven't seen a black person in their lives?


Did you see what xmarks had said earlier, go back and read his post!

Originally posted by Francisco
Latveria is in east Europe. Last time a checkd there were not too many black people there. Why wouldn't BP assume that the Latverians haven't seen a black person in their lives?

Yes Doom is a scientist. Haven't you heard about scientific racism?

No, actually not. Tell me about it.

Originally posted by Alfheim
You know what, whwt exactly are you complaining about? I'm trying to figure out the same thing. Here let's dissect his OP.
Originally posted by Francisco
It's the comic industry and its fans racist or not? Why it is that when a black character gets a book everyone seems to instantly agree that the art or the writer sucks but when the character is white they love him even if the writer and the artist are the same?Which character are you referring to. I'm assuming Black Panther is at least one of them. Riddle me this: Have you ever thought maybe it's not the character, but that the writer is actually a poor writer? Have you ever thought that under the direction of a good writer and not some Hollyweird hack people might enjoy the comic rather than feel their gag reflex kicking in?
Originally posted by Francisco
Why the comic industry keeps making the same mistakes over and over while expecting to have different results? Why it is that when a black writer speaks about race and discrimination he is immediatly chalked as racist but when a white does the same he becomes a hero and is prized by his effort?Again, have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, Hudlin's views are actually racially motivated and prejudicial, that his writing is simplistic and generalizing and tries to cast black characters as good and right, and white characters as bad, incompetent, wrong. Also I'd like to see an example of people prizing a comic as racially motivated against black people as Hudlin's Black Panther is against white people.
Originally posted by Francisco
Why can't the fanboys tolerate a strong, intelligent black hero? They can. Why can't an incompetent writer portray a strong, intelligent black hero without simplistically trying to make other characters look bad and out of character. Oh that's right, being incompetent probably prevents that.

Which is not to say that race issues shouldn't be discussed in comics, as in any form of literary work. But if done, it should be done well, and at a level of complexity the topic deserves.

Originally posted by Francisco
It's the comic industry and its fans racist or not? Why it is that when a black character gets a book everyone seems to instantly agree that the art or the writer sucks but when the character is white they love him even if the writer and the artist are the same? Why the comic industry keeps making the same mistakes over and over while expecting to have different results? Why it is that when a black writer speaks about race and discrimination he is immediatly chalked as racist but when a white does the same he becomes a hero and is prized by his effort? Why can't the fanboys tolerate a strong, intelligent black hero?

Its probably just choice of heroes that they seen growing up or whatever. cause really I've never seen a redneck or a clansman go buy a comic book

Well, I see a lot of people talking about how great Priest was but few bought his panther.

What are you talking about? The only white people portrayed as evil are all well know villains. What, are you upset that the villains act like villains? Hell only a moron would say that BP is against white people.
Was it racist when Spider-man beat up Man-Ape? Did Cap acted stupidly and out of character the last issue? Doom was having the upper hand on his battle with BP, Ororo's interruption was what tipped things on BP's favor. The fact remains that You're just a hater! As I said before you'll be pleased only when the panther starts getting beat up by everyone.

Furthermore why the **** would somebody who has temporarily beaten The Beyonder give a **** about race? Hudlin is a ****ing knob.

Originally posted by Francisco
Well, I see a lot of people talking about how great Priest was but few bought his panther.

What are you talking about? The only white people portrayed as evil are all well know villains. What, are you upset that the villains act like villains? Hell only a moron would say that BP is against white people.
Was it racist when Spider-man beat up Man-Ape? Did Cap acted stupidly and out of character the last issue? Doom was having the upper hand on his battle with BP, Ororo's interruption was what tipped things on BP's favor. The fact remains that You're just a hater! As I said before you'll be pleased only when the panther starts getting beat up by everyone. Yes. Everyone is a hater. It has nothing to do with poor writing, characterization and continuity. Everybody's just racist. Hudlin's Black Panther series should win all the Eisner Awards. He's that good.

How about you buy it, since you seem to like it, until it inevitably gets cancelled due to sliding sales and stop boring everyone with your nonsense. And I'll just wait for the Storm lookalike to die, and for the real Storm with some actual character to be found somewhere in hibernation.

Not everybody just a few loud fanboys who haven't even read the book.
BP isn't going anywhere so deal with it.

According to haters:

Poor characterisation = BP is not getting pummeled by Aunt Mae.

Originally posted by Francisco
Why can't the fanboys tolerate a strong, intelligent black hero?

I have no beef with John Stewart, Cyborg, Crispus Allen, Steel, oh...wait ...that's DC. Never mind...

Ok this is all pointless all people will do is argue back and forth with no end. This is how the world works now a days, with conflict, after conflict after conflict. This is also the reason why I'm trying to satisfy everyone of every race by staring a new well-known comic book industry where everyone is included. But you also have to remeber that it also depends on where you are in the world. However I'll still make if fair to everyone.

oh by the way I'm not mad I'm just disappointed. However some of the thing that were said are write, and that is something that I cannot deny.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4031/bp19ag5.th.jpg

Maybe the people are staring because they are walking through the streets in skin-tight Halloween costumes.

shrug

I aint racist, I hate all you mutha****ers equally.

Originally posted by Bardock42
No, actually not. Tell me about it.

Check it out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

Originally posted by Scoobless
Maybe the people are staring because they are walking through the streets in skin-tight Halloween costumes.

shrug




I think it would be great if they were staring at them for that. It would make BP and Storm look soo stupid.

BP: All you racist bigots stop staring at me because I'm black!
Latverian citizens: With all due respect sir, we weren't staring because you were black. We were staring in surprise at the fact that a man in a small tight fighting spandex uniform actually managed to get a woman.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/4031/bp19ag5.th.jpg
For reference. Here's some of the awesome awesome writing the OP is referring to.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the big deal. What is racist - or very bad writing - on that panel ?

I would stare too if Storm and Black Panther suddenly showed up. And I don't think that the Latverian people are used to see black people.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
I'm sorry, but I fail to see the big deal. What is racist - or very bad writing - on that panel ?

I would stare too if Storm and Black Panther suddenly showed up. And I don't think that the Latverian people are used to see black people. It's a single example of how the current BP run is slanted. You basically omitted the part of my post which elaborated.

Yes, Latveria is isolationist. So is Wakanda. Ergo hypocritical.

It would be similarly unnecessary for a writer to have Psylocke go to Wakanda and have all the locals stare at her and then have her comment upon how the black Wakandans's are all looking at her just because she's asian.

Additionally overall there are numerous continuity gaffs... and less-than-apt charactarizations of guest characters (incl. recurring guest star Storm) in the book.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's a single example of how the current BP run is slanted. You basically omitted the part of my post which elaborated.

Yes, Latveria is isolationist. So is Wakanda. Ergo hypocritical.

It would be similarly unnecessary for a writer to have Psylocke go to Wakanda and have all the locals stare at her and then have her comment upon how everyone's looking at her because she's asian.

Are you sure you're not a girl because I interpret it in exactly the same way as you.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It's a single example of how the current BP run is slanted. You basically omitted the part of my post which elaborated.

Yes, Latveria is isolationist. So is Wakanda. Ergo hypocritical.

It would be similarly unnecessary for a writer to have Psylocke go to Wakanda and have all the locals stare at her and then have her comment upon how everyone's looking at her because she's asian.

I actually got that point a hudred years ago.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Are you sure you're not a girl because I interpret it in exactly the same way as you. Are you sure you're not whirly, because I interpret you in exactly the same way as him.

Rhetorical question btw.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It would be similarly unnecessary for a writer to have Psylocke go to Wakanda and have all the locals stare at her and then have her comment upon how the black Wakandans's are all looking at her just because she's asian.

I thought Psylocke was British ...

Originally posted by Scoobless
I thought Psylocke was British ... She's British, but had her mind transferred to the body of an Asian assassin named Kwannon by the Hand, their minds merged in a way giving both of them Psylocke's abilities and memories, and Kwannon's martial arts skills. Kwannon reemerged died of the Legacy virus. Psylocke's also died and come back. Convoluted, yes.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Are you sure you're not whirly, because I interpret you in exactly the same way as him.

Rhetorical question btw.

I'm sure i'm not Whirly whoever that is.

Ugh. Anyone actually claiming that Hudlin is a good writer is just...well, stupid. There are certain stuff one must do to be a good writer, and Hudlin certainly hasn't done any of these.

He is not only a horrible writer, but horrible person too. Anyone heard of the Alvaro messageboards fiasco with Hudlin?

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Ugh. Anyone actually claiming that Hudlin is a good writer is just...well, stupid. There are certain stuff one must do to be a good writer, and Hudlin certainly hasn't done any of these.

He is not only a horrible writer, but horrible person too. Anyone heard of the Alvaro messageboards fiasco with Hudlin?

No I haven't, what happened?

Huldin writes Black Panther like the most important characteristic Black Panther poses is the fact that he is black. Why does Black Panther have to be a "black hero" why can't he just be a hero? I couldn't care less what colour a character's skin happens to be but I don't think a character's race should be the focus point of his character. Personally don't like having poorly concocted race issues that are irrelevant and virtually nonexistent in todays society shoved down my throat.


... and I don't think Black Panther and Cage would get along at all let alone become friends.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Huldin writes Black Panther like the most important characteristic Black Panther poses is the fact that he is black. Why does Black Panther have to be a "black hero" why can't he just be a hero? I couldn't care less what colour a character's skin happens to be but I don't think a character's race should be the focus point of his character. Personally don't like having poorly concocted race issues that are irrelevant and virtually nonexistent in todays society shoved down my throat.


... and I don't think Black Panther and Cage would get along at all let alone become friends.

Hudlin wrote it so Cage had worshipped T'Challa since being a boy.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
It would be similarly unnecessary for a writer to have Psylocke go to Wakanda and have all the locals stare at her and then have her comment upon how the black Wakandans's are all looking at her just because she's asian.

If she said that, she would be right too. That's not racism, that's just curiosity. You're making a big deal out of it.

And I think an average inhabitant of Wakanda is not as unworldly as the average inhabitant of Latveria. Isolated countries yes, but compared to Latveria, Wakanda isn't that isolated.

Now, if you're talking about the Hudlin run, that's a different story, but again, on that panel, nothing wrong according to me.

Originally posted by Weyoun
Hudlin wrote it so Cage had worshipped T'Challa since being a boy.

And?

The two have nothing in common, Cage doesn't even speak the Queen's english.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
If she said that, she would be right too. That's not racism, that's just curiosity. You're making a big deal out of it.

And I think an average inhabitant of Wakanda is not as unworldly as the average inhabitant of Latveria. Isolated countries yes, but compared to Latveria, Wakanda isn't that isolated.

Now, if you're talking about the Hudlin run, that's a different story, but again, on that panel, nothing wrong according to me. I'm talking about the run in general. This thread was initially in the GDF where I assumed most people aren't as familiar with who BP is, and it was an example off the top of my head.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
If she said that, she would be right too. That's not racism, that's just curiosity. You're making a big deal out of it.

And I think an average inhabitant of Wakanda is not as unworldly as the average inhabitant of Latveria. Isolated countries yes, but compared to Latveria, Wakanda isn't that isolated.

Now, if you're talking about the Hudlin run, that's a different story, but again, on that panel, nothing wrong according to me.

I doubt the staring had anything to do with race, I mean for all purposes they just landed a jet in the center of 18th century Romania... and they are both dressed pretty odd. Panther was just jumping to conclusions and clearly has some self esteem issues.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And?

The two have nothing in common, Cage doesn't even speak the Queen's english. Cage is supposed to be quite fluent in several lenguages. As I said before fanboys can only like non-caucasian characters when they job to white looking characters.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I doubt the staring had anything to do with race, I mean for all purposes they just landed a jet in the center of 18th century Romania... and they are both dressed pretty odd. Panther was just jumping to conclusions and clearly has some self esteem issues.
Maybe. I can live with that explanation.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And?

The two have nothing in common, Cage doesn't even speak the Queen's english.

Exactly it's ridiculous, although we don't know they speak English in Wakanda, as they have never been conquered I doubt it.

Originally posted by Francisco
Cage is supposed to be quite fluent in several lenguages. As I said before fanboys can only like non-caucasian characters when they job to white looking characters.

Do you think the King of a country is going to have good interactions with a guy who says "Yo dog I 'aint even trying to hear that!"?

Not sure how the second part of your post has anything to do with what I said... but you seem like the type who finds non existent race issues in everything.

Tell me what does Reed and Thing have in common? Despite their difference they are best friends (or use to be) why can't T'Challa befriend Cage?

Originally posted by Francisco
Tell me what does Reed and Thing have in common? Despite their difference they are best friends (or use to be) why can't T'Challa befriend Cage?

King kam expalined. BP maybe be black but hes rich, Cage is from the ghetto and may not relate to him.

Oh yeah could you give us a quote of Dr Doom saying something racist before Hudlin?

Originally posted by Francisco
Tell me what does Reed and Thing have in common? Despite their difference they are best friends (or use to be) why can't T'Challa befriend Cage?

Cage and Black Panther is closer to Snoop Dogg hanging out with the Queen of England then it is to Reed Richards and Ben Grimm.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Ugh. Anyone actually claiming that Hudlin is a good writer is just...well, stupid. There are certain stuff one must do to be a good writer, and Hudlin certainly hasn't done any of these.

He is not only a horrible writer, but horrible person too. Anyone heard of the Alvaro messageboards fiasco with Hudlin?

Originally posted by Weyoun
No I haven't, what happened?

I'd like to know as well, please

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Cage and Black Panther is closer to Snoop Dogg hanging out with the Queen of England then it is to Reed Richards and Ben Grimm.
Are you comparing Luke Cage the guy who has fought with the avengers and helped to save the world a couple of times to a rapper with drug problems? Cage has come a long way since his days as hired muscle. Yes in the early days I would have a hard time seeing BP brefriend Cage but today Cage is a completely different man. Cage has traveled through the world thanks to his day as mercenary and has extense knowledge on languages and other cultures. To me BP would accept and even seek a friendship with Luke Cage because he is a warrior like him.

I think the best example of stereotypical race discrimination happened in issue 4 of civil war, when the customary irrelevant black guy,was the only one to be killed. What a coincidence

Originally posted by Francisco
Are you comparing Luke Cage the guy who has fought with the avengers and helped to save the world a couple of times to a rapper with drug problems? Cage has come a long way since his days as hired muscle. Yes in the early days I would have a hard time seeing BP brefriend Cage but today Cage is a completely different man. Cage has traveled through the world thanks to his day as mercenary and has extense knowledge on languages and other cultures. To me BP would accept and even seek a friendship with Luke Cage because he is a warrior like him.

Actually thats a good point. I did actually think of that as well, but I dont like you very much, so my first reaction is to disagree with you.

Originally posted by willRules
I'd like to know as well, please

http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13

Cheers

Originally posted by Francisco
Are you comparing Luke Cage the guy who has fought with the avengers and helped to save the world a couple of times to a rapper with drug problems? Cage has come a long way since his days as hired muscle. Yes in the early days I would have a hard time seeing BP brefriend Cage but today Cage is a completely different man. Cage has traveled through the world thanks to his day as mercenary and has extense knowledge on languages and other cultures. To me BP would accept and even seek a friendship with Luke Cage because he is a warrior like him.

... On that note he would have to be friends with ever single costumed hero, which is bogus. Maybe Black Panther would respect the fact that Cage uses his abilities to fight crime but that is a long shot from being friends. Aside from Japanese what other languages does Cage know?

Why? I mean Cage risks his life to protect people. Hell in that issue Cage stopped a bullet aimed at BP. Remember we are talking about comics here. It seems you can accept flying man but not the friendship between 2 black males because one is richer than the other.

Originally posted by Francisco
Latveria is in east Europe. Last time a checkd there were not too many black people there. Why wouldn't BP assume that the Latverians haven't seen a black person in their lives?

Yes Doom is a scientist. Haven't you heard about scientific racism?

Storm has been to Latervia before. In the X-Men vs. Fantastic Four miniseries (way back in 1986), the X-Men were honoured guests in Latervia, seeking a cure for Kitty Pryde's problem of being in permanent phase - because Reed Richards failed to come through for them.
Storm strolled hand-in-hand with Doom around the castle, quite friendly. The atitudes we're seeing in this latest comic are dumb and not thought out. Doom is a supremicist only in terms of intellect. Hudlin shouldn't be cut any slack, just because he's black.

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
I think the best example of stereotypical race discrimination happened in issue 4 of civil war, when the customary irrelevant black guy,was the only one to be killed. What a coincidence

I think he was wearing a red shirt in the original concept artwork.

Originally posted by Scoobless
I think he was wearing a red shirt in the original concept artwork.

That was not racist. He just happened to be black and had not appeared in comics for the last couple of decades before that issue.
How can you think Marvel would have a black man killed by the ultimate Neo Nazi mithological symbol.

PS. The guys at stormfront sure made a party that day.

Originally posted by roughrider
Storm has been to Latervia before. In the X-Men vs. Fantastic Four miniseries (way back in 1986), the X-Men were honoured guests in Latervia, seeking a cure for Kitty Pryde's problem of being in permanent phase - because Reed Richards failed to come through for them.
Storm strolled hand-in-hand with Doom around the castle, quite friendly. The atitudes we're seeing in this latest comic are dumb and not thought out. Doom is a supremicist only in terms of intellect. Hudlin shouldn't be cut any slack, just because he's black.

Do you see what I mean. Franciso....

STOP IGNORING IMPORTANT POINTS!!!!!!!!


Reply to this post dammit!

Couldn't have been a Doombot?

Originally posted by Francisco
It's the comic industry and its fans racist or not? Why it is that when a black character gets a book everyone seems to instantly agree that the art or the writer sucks but when the character is white they love him even if the writer and the artist are the same? Why the comic industry keeps making the same mistakes over and over while expecting to have different results? Why it is that when a black writer speaks about race and discrimination he is immediatly chalked as racist but when a white does the same he becomes a hero and is prized by his effort? Why can't the fanboys tolerate a strong, intelligent black hero?

Well, we all tolerate Spawn, who is a great fighter, and a black hero.
Luke Cage is a black hero who, in his own right, is very cool.
Goliath (RIP) was an intelligent man, and most Avengers fans liked him. Ultimate Nick Fury, though he's essentially Sam Jackson with an eyepatch, is awesome.
Jim Rhodes (War Machine) is an AMAZING superhero.
The Post-Crisis Mr. Teriffic is the third smartest man on DC earth.
and the list goes on.

If you're making reference to the Black Panther comic, written by Reggie Hudlin, who is a known bigot and jackass, then your statement is unfounded. Reggie has proven time, and time again that he's an egotistical jerk. This guy went on Alvaros and was interviewed, and then when people started questioning his series, he created sock accounts to back himself up. I actually think he's the first writer ever to be banned from a website.

So, saying that everyone is racist against Hudlin is honestly dumb. The horrible thing is if you reverse the statement, it's the truth.

Reginald Hudlin hates white people.

But all those character you named will always fall under the catch frase "they are not as skilled/smart/strong/ as/whatever white looking character.
They are all second stringers, even if they are powerhouse like Storm or Photom they'll never get any respect. His dids will be always chalked down as PIS.

So Hudlin is a bigot because he has Doom saying a racist comment? Then McGregor and Kirby are also racist for having BP fight the Klan and the Azanian white supremacists.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Reginald Hudlin hates white people.
You're a moron.

So Spawn was liked. Hell few guys knew he was black. The guys is wearing a mask at all hours and when he doesn't his face is all burned up so it makes no difference.

Originally posted by Francisco
You're a moron.

So Spawn was liked. Hell few guys knew he was black. The guys is wearing a mask at all hours and when he doesn't his face is all burned up so it makes no difference.



Kid, there was no reason to troll on my response when I was telling straight truth.

Also, Spawn's Wife, best friend, co-workers and partners, etc were all black. It makes a big difference, considered he will always be known as the most popular Black superhero of all time.


Seriously, you need to chill.

Originally posted by Francisco
Couldn't have been a Doombot?

See what I mean. He has just proven to you that Dr Doom is not racist, there is no evidence to prove that it was a doombot, but thats you're next excuse. Even if it was a doombot, doombots are supposed to act like Dr Doom. Anymore excuses?

Originally posted by Francisco
You're a moron. A collection of your posts:
Originally posted by Francisco
Why not? Because he is black? Originally posted by Francisco
BP is not inferior to Cap what really happens here is that BP is black and foreigner while Cap is American and white.
All this argument has nothing to do with skills or powers. The bottom line is racial bias. The black character will always be dimmed as inferior. Originally posted by Francisco
Yes Cap is the man because he wears the united states flag is blond with blue eyes. The whole Aryan package that white supremacist and the self hating negroes love so much. Originally posted by Francisco
BP is as good fighter as Captain America the thing is that BP isn't white and doesn't wear the flag of the united states. All this hate towards Hudlin writing is because he refuses to have Panther jobbing for other characters to look good. Originally posted by Francisco
Race card eh? Why don't you stop hating yourself and wishing you were white? Let's face it Cap's only advantages are his whitness and the flag he wears. Those qualities will always prevent him from getting beat up.

Just as BP blackness will always prevent the closeted racists from seeing him like more than a second stringer. Originally posted by Francisco
I guess Hudlin's writing will improve when he start getting BP beat up by every white character in the MU. In order for you to be pleased with BP he has to become the wiping boy of the Marvel universe so white folks don't feel emasculated. Originally posted by Francisco
My problem is that you are understimating BP because he is not white.
You may not realize it but that's the way it is. Originally posted by Francisco
Yes, I saw it. The problem is not the quantity but the quality of those heroes. You probably don't see any problem with more black/asian/latino heroes as long as they job to Cap and the other white looking heroes.

You. Are. A. Moron.

Originally posted by Alfheim
See what I mean. He has just proven to you that Dr Doom is not racist, there is no evidence to prove that it was a doombot, but thats you're next excuse. Even if it was a doombot, doombots are supposed to act like Dr Doom. Anymore excuses?

It wasn't a Doombot ... he had a lot of thought bubble moments that a robot just wouldn't have had in a comic.

Originally posted by Francisco
You're a moron.

So Spawn was liked. Hell few guys knew he was black. The guys is wearing a mask at all hours and when he doesn't his face is all burned up so it makes no difference.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot


You. Are. Pwned.

Originally posted by Scoobless
It wasn't a Doombot ... he had a lot of thought bubble moments that a robot just wouldn't have had in a comic.

Yeah im sure it wasnt a bot. Im just trying to counter this fools excuses.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
A collection of your posts:


You. Are. A. Moron.

Maybe a racists and a little bit naive, but hardly a moron. At least some of his sentences make sense.Well in a literary sense anyway.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah im sure it wasnt a bot. Im just trying to counter this fools excuses. Doombots had had bubble thoughts in the past. There's a lot of Doom's appearance atributed to Doombots with bubble thoughts.

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Maybe a racists and a little bit naive, but hardly a moron. At least some of his sentences make sense.

No hes a moron.

Furthermore if black people hate black characters why is it on this forum that people were complaining that Apocalypse should be more powerful?

Originally posted by Francisco
Doombots had had bubble thoughts in the past. There's a lot of Doom's appearance atributed to Doombots with bubble thoughts.

PAY ATTENTION!!!!!!!!!! WHAT DID I SAY AFTER THAT????????? I SAID DOOMBOTS ARE SUPPOSED TO ACT LIKE DOOM??????? DO THE MATH SO IF THE BOT IS NOT RACIST THEN DOOM IS NOT RACIST!!!!!!!

ANYMORE EXCUSES??????

Originally posted by Alfheim
No hes a moron.


Mannn sarcasm is wasted in cyberspace !

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Mannn sarcasm is wasted in cyberspace ! the story of my life.

Originally posted by Francisco
Doombots had had bubble thoughts in the past. There's a lot of Doom's appearance atributed to Doombots with bubble thoughts.

It wasn't a Doombot.

Originally posted by Francisco
Check it out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism

not to get involved in another race debate, but, this is not true

It is so ethically wrong to bring up racial questions in science that many realistic questions are just taboo to ask. It is unethical to look at why all the world record holders for the 100m sprint descend from one part of Africa, where all the holders for the 1500m are from another. Scientists are unwilling to ask these questions because idiots like you scare them out of it by calling them "racists".

Its very similar to how one of the sitting chairs of Harvard had to step down for hypothesizing that it is possible that the lack of women in mathematics and engineering could be attributed to real differences in information processing in their brains.

Science enforces equality to its own detriment.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Well, we all tolerate Spawn, who is a great fighter, and a black hero.
Luke Cage is a black hero who, in his own right, is very cool.
Goliath (RIP) was an intelligent man, and most Avengers fans liked him. Ultimate Nick Fury, though he\'s essentially Sam Jackson with an eyepatch, is awesome.
Jim Rhodes (War Machine) is an AMAZING superhero.
The Post-Crisis Mr. Teriffic is the third smartest man on DC earth.
and the list goes on.

If you\'re making reference to the Black Panther comic, written by Reggie Hudlin, who is a known bigot and jackass, then your statement is unfounded. Reggie has proven time, and time again that he\'s an egotistical jerk. This guy went on Alvaros and was interviewed, and then when people started questioning his series, he created sock accounts to back himself up. I actually think he\'s the first writer ever to be banned from a website.

So, saying that everyone is racist against Hudlin is honestly dumb. The horrible thing is if you reverse the statement, it\'s the truth.

Reginald Hudlin hates white people.

Oh the Hypocrisy.

F.uck you Marcus or Thunderstrike or whatever you\'re calling yourself.

I\'m not as good at hiding/changing my i.p. address as you and Whirly so I get caught.

Perhaps I should have asked how it was done first.

But don\'t pick on me for something you\'re doinig now.

You Twa.t

Nothing is wrong with my books.

this thread, just wow......

1)Hudlins writing is trash and YES i have read a few books....it's trash

2)There are more second string American heroes, then second string minorities, simply because they are TRYING to promote equality.

3) Ass-hats like you are picking at "oh, he lost because he is *wtfever*" no one cares about race, NOT IN A COMIC BOOK FORUM, i consider all of you my equals, white, black, Hispanic, Asian, polish, Australian, south American..blah blah you get my point. power-sets, and abilities are what count, THATS IT.

4) before you start up with those "self-hating Negroes" or those "racist white boy" comments, i am neither, i am Hispanic.

take that racist, ignorant, biased posting somewhere else; for all we know YOU'RE Hudlin in disguise.

Originally posted by Reggie_Hudlin
Oh the Hypocrisy.

F.uck you Marcus or Thunderstrike or whatever you\'re calling yourself.

I\'m not as good at hiding/changing my i.p. address as you and Whirly so I get caught.

Perhaps I should have asked how it was done first.

But don\'t pick on me for something you\'re doinig now.

You Twa.t speak of the sock devil

sorry for the double post

Originally posted by Francisco
It's the comic industry and its fans racist or not? Why it is that when a black character gets a book everyone seems to instantly agree that the art or the writer sucks but when the character is white they love him even if the writer and the artist are the same? Why the comic industry keeps making the same mistakes over and over while expecting to have different results? Why it is that when a black writer speaks about race and discrimination he is immediatly chalked as racist but when a white does the same he becomes a hero and is prized by his effort? Why can't the fanboys tolerate a strong, intelligent black hero?

Um, I don't really notice any of this for the most part. There's strong black writers and characters in comics. Maybe not as much as there should be, but they're there.

It's also more than a little naive to broadly paint all of comic-dom as "fanboys" who can't accept a black hero. Quit trying to pick fights that don't really exist.

Originally posted by Reggie_Hudlin
Nothing is wrong with my books.


Umm Mr Hudlin I would like to offer some constructive criticism to improve your Black panther series


Try to keep the racism to a minimum. Many people who read the comics are white people and are offended by your work

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/money.jpg

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/money.jpg

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I have no beef with John Stewart, Cyborg, Crispus Allen, Steel, oh...wait ...that's DC. Never mind...

Originally posted by Alfheim
No hes a moron.

Furthermore if black people hate black characters why is it on this forum that people were complaining that Apocalypse should be more powerful?

Wait, wait, isn't Apoc egyptian? He's pale grey with blue lips. How does he figure into being black? As for power, he should be more powerful. He's the most underrated and underwritten top tier villain on earth. (Key phrase: on earth. I know his limits and that statement is meant to exclude cosmics and non-earth based villains.)


About that pic, is that real or fake? either way it's a laugh riot.

Btw, Wrathful was listing black heroes and then stopped when he realized all the ones they had named were DC. Is it a coincidence? No way. It just proves that DC has better writing. Not to mention the spectacular Green Arrow/ Green Lantern comics from a few years ago. They dealt with social issues like racism brilliantly. So the question isn't why isn't there a legitimate discussion on race/racism. It's 'why is Marvel not doing it?' Hudlin may be an extreme example, but he represents Marvel's failure to create a clear and open dialogue in their comics. Think about it, people hate this guy and want him taken off BP and other works. He has bastardized Dr. Doom and countless other characters, and yet....Marvel has not sacked him or taken him off the comics he has wrecked. I think that sends a fair view of their perception of race in comics.

I wish Reggie Hudlin was here so we could ask him wht he is trying to do with his new Black Panther series.

Originally posted by Reggie_Hudlin
Oh the Hypocrisy.

F.uck you Marcus or Thunderstrike or whatever you\'re calling yourself.

I\'m not as good at hiding/changing my i.p. address as you and Whirly so I get caught.

Perhaps I should have asked how it was done first.

But don\'t pick on me for something you\'re doinig now.

You Twa.t

whistling

Personally, I just don't find Hudlin's writing particularly good. If the book didn't involve race issues at all, and didn't attempt to rewrite and recharacterize classic characters, such as Doom, it still wouldn't make a difference.

it's poorly written. As in, it's not good story telling; nothing leads between events, there is no conceivable challenge for the lead character, all the guest characters don't really say or do anything interesting but worship or attack the main character, T'Challa doesn't change or even really think between panels.

It's really just incredibly poorly written. if it had nothing to do with race at all, it would still be one of the worst books marvel is putting out right now.

Mr.Terrific and Cage are my faves personally.


And as for doom being racist....well he isnt Aryian so it doesnt matter. When Hitler started killing off people who werent "aryian" they went after people who looked like doom first.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Wait, wait, isn't Apoc egyptian? He's pale grey with blue lips. How does he figure into being black? As for power, he should be more powerful. He's the most underrated and underwritten top tier villain on earth. (Key phrase: on earth. I know his limits and that statement is meant to exclude cosmics and non-earth based villains.)


About that pic, is that real or fake? either way it's a laugh riot.

Btw, Wrathful was listing black heroes and then stopped when he realized all the ones they had named were DC. Is it a coincidence? No way. It just proves that DC has better writing. Not to mention the spectacular Green Arrow/ Green Lantern comics from a few years ago. They dealt with social issues like racism brilliantly. So the question isn't why isn't there a legitimate discussion on race/racism. It's 'why is Marvel not doing it?' Hudlin may be an extreme example, but he represents Marvel's failure to create a clear and open dialogue in their comics. Think about it, people hate this guy and want him taken off BP and other works. He has bastardized Dr. Doom and countless other characters, and yet....Marvel has not sacked him or taken him off the comics he has wrecked. I think that sends a fair view of their perception of race in comics.

Look at the Wiki list for Black Superheroes. There are many at both DC and Marvel. The existance of such a list isn't degrading - Wiki has lists of Jewish Superheroes, Heroes with Super Strength, that can fly, and so on. Just part of making lists is all.
Don't give DC too many props. Marvel was the trailblazer in the 1970's with this kind of thing. People point at Luke Cage - what about DC with Black Racer and Black Lightning? What kind of names are those? And the Green Lantern/Green Arrow series by Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams, was an ambitious but over-hysterical failure. GA was just a mouthpiece for O'Neil's 60's radicalism.

We all know Aquaman is racist.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
We all know Aquaman is racist.


I was going to mention that episode of Harvey Birdman, where they parodied the Superfriends!

Originally posted by Francisco
It's the comic industry and its fans racist or not? Why it is that when a black character gets a book everyone seems to instantly agree that the art or the writer sucks but when the character is white they love him even if the writer and the artist are the same? Why the comic industry keeps making the same mistakes over and over while expecting to have different results? Why it is that when a black writer speaks about race and discrimination he is immediatly chalked as racist but when a white does the same he becomes a hero and is prized by his effort? Why can't the fanboys tolerate a strong, intelligent black hero?
Shut the hell up.

People like this should be shot, stabbed and raped with pickles.

There are more whites in comics because more whites BUY comics. More whites WRITE comics. More whites DRAW comics.
Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Originally posted by long pig
Shut the hell up.

People like this should be shot, stabbed and raped with pickles.

There are more whites in comics because more whites BUY comics. More whites WRITE comics. More whites DRAW comics.
Why is this so hard to comprehend?

I would say it has more to do with the fact that only 30% of the population of the America belongs to a visible minority then anything else.