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My hometown is all over the english media at the moment, why anyone would want one of these dogs as a pet is beyond me!

A post-mortem examination on a dog that killed a five-year-old girl will determine whether the animal was subject to the Dangerous Dogs Act.

Ellie Lawrenson, from St Helens, was mauled to death early on Monday morning by an adult pitbull terrier-type dog despite desperate attempts by her grandmother to save her.

The dog's owner - Ellie's uncle - had been officially warned about his pet's behaviour in June last year.

Owners of pure-bred pitbull terriers are legally to blame for attacks made by them under the provisions of the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act.

A spokeswoman for St Helens Council said the warning letter had been sent to the uncle, named locally as Kiel Simpson, after a neighbour said the animal had attacked his dog in May.

Several neighbours are reported to have said the animal had violent tendencies and at least one other person has claimed he and his dog were attacked.

Jackie Simpson, 46, had been babysitting her granddaughter while the mother, named locally as Lyndsay, was out celebrating New Year.

Ms Simpson also suffered serious injuries in the deadly assault. The dog was shot at the scene by police marksmen.

It is unknown at this stage whether Ellie was asleep when the dog pounced or what prompted the vicious attack, but officers will be investigating whether fireworks may have scared the animal.

Source

Originally posted by smoker4
The dog was shot at the scene by police marksmen.


Cool.

Stupid dog, the parents should have known the danger of that thing... But it always makes me wonder how the hell did that dog get to the child in the first place?

Pit bulls are banned here, too, if I am not mistaken...I sometimes think it's the owners. Sometimes a dog which is not known for biting or being agressive will attack, and I sometimes think this is due to the owners teaching it to attack. Obviously, not all pet owners are like this, but occasionally you get those who will teach their animals to attack.

The same can't really be said for Pit Bulls, as they are known for being agressive. I don't think they should be banned, just restricted. Perhaps the owners should have a special licence, and keep the dog on a leash, with a face guard when walking it. I think banning these animals is a little over the top.

The breed was banned here in the UK sixteen years ago but there is so many loopholes in the law that they are still around, i certainly agree with the owner being responsible, its so negligent to have a dog like this around a little kid especially on New Years Eve when fireworks and shit are going to be going off.

pit bulls are aggressive, but not naturally THIS violent. NO ANIMAL that you can legally own in your home is THAT violent on its own. this had to be an abusive act of the owners

My cousin has a pitbull. That thing is HUGE! However its one of the most docile creatures I've ever met. Its according to how you train the dog, not what kind of dog it is. A chihuahua can be more violent than a pit, although it definitely can't do as much damage but still.

Oh that is so sad, heard about it poor child, feel absolutely sorry for her parents and family etc.

That is true but you would also need to include other large breed dogs as well.

Originally posted by quickshot
They're not naturally aggressive but there strength and power make them appeal to people who raise them to be aggressive

and many generations of aggressive breeding can make the species themselves aggressive or at least everything that comes from that breed. Doesn't mean they have to become aggressive just that they are more likely too

This guy was probably one of those idiot hicks who like hit his dog while it was growing to make it aggressive so it would attack trespassers, worked out well, didn't it?

Lol anyone who thinks that certain breeds aren't more aggressive or don't have a tendancy for increased aggression need their head examined.

PS after we ban certain breeds next we should ban the owners from areas as well, that would rock!

Turns out the owner is a convicted drug dealer who used the dog for protecting his "patch". And he bred the little bastards as well and trained them to fight to the death. What a lovely person. I'd smear his nads in dogfood and put him in a cage with 50 of them.

Originally posted by Soleran
Someone needs to watch more dog whisperer........you're mixing traits and behaviors poorly in this discussion. Have you ever watched the show? He says the same thing that I am, also my wife is in her 3rd year of Vet School and is also very much against the banning of Pitbulls and Rottweilers and works to get the bans lifted. What makes you so educated in this anyway and that my argument is flawed?

Originally posted by ThePittman
Have you ever watched the show? He says the same thing that I am, also my wife is in her 3rd year of Vet School and is also very much against the banning of Pitbulls and Rottweilers and works to get the bans lifted. What makes you so educated in this anyway and that my argument is flawed?

Well for one thing this comment:



Agression can also be a sign of dominance and that is natural, hunting is natural and those two traits are apparent. To say certain breeds of dogs aren't more prone to violence due to breeding is crazy.

Is it safe to safe we selectively bred animals for herding, the answer is yes and they display these tendencies. Whats to say it cannot be done with other traits? Here's the answer, it can be done. Hence there are breeds of dogs more prone to aggression due to breeding.

A little more

http://www.dogobedienceadvice.com/which_dog_breeds_are_most_aggressive.php

Originally posted by Kayne Archeron
pit bulls are aggressive, but not naturally THIS violent. NO ANIMAL that you can legally own in your home is THAT violent on its own. this had to be an abusive act of the owners

I agree.

Originally posted by smoker4


Ms Simpson also suffered serious injuries in the deadly assault. The dog was shot at the scene by police marksmen.


Source

Thats like Resident Evil Shit.

Following on from the original article:



Source

Update

ITN - 1 hour 38 minutes ago

No dog is more predisposed to violence than any other. It is all about their upbringing and how they were treated. A pitbull owned by a 60 year old granny would never do some thing like this because it would not have that killer instinct. This pitbull was trained to fight.

These dogs were orginally breed to fight, so yes, they do have a tendency to be more aggressive than say a Pomeranian; it's isn't their fault, regardless the aggression is there.

A woman I worked with raised one from an 8 week old puppy, the dog was never abused, I used to play with it when she brought it in on Fridays; he was an extremely friendly dog.. Yet at 1.5 years old, it attacked a young girl for no apparent reason. Yes, I know it's anecdotal, but similar stories are not uncommon when dealing with Pitbulls.

Originally posted by Robtard
Still doesn't take away from the fact that these dogs were specifically breed to fight, meaning "aggression" adn "pain resistance" were the traits that were magnified in the breed through selective breeding. I know that back in the day "dog fight" dogs that showed aggression towards it's handlers/humans were killed, but still, aggression was the one trait these dogs were breed for.

Is it just coincidence that whenever you hear of a dog mauling, a Pitbull or similar is often involved? Do you think all these incidents involved a Pitbull that was abused and/or trained to attack or simply a novice owner? The reason that this is heard more often than others is that one it is a hot topic and in reality that most dog bites and attacks are done by non-attack dogs. It is a difference that makes the news is the damage that a larger dog can do to humans than a small bread dog.

Originally posted by Soleran
Lol anyone who thinks that certain breeds aren't more aggressive or don't have a tendancy for increased aggression need their head examined.

I agree. Most dogs have particular traits hardwired into their particular breeds. Thats why we bred particular breeds.


Originally posted by Magee
No dog is more predisposed to violence than any other. It is all about their upbringing and how they were treated. A pitbull owned by a 60 year old granny would never do some thing like this because it would not have that killer instinct. This pitbull was trained to fight.


No one is suprised when:

-A golden retriever retrieves.
-A border collie exhibits a herding instinct.
-A sight hound chases something.
-A bloodhound follows it's nose.
-A labrador takes to water.
-Or a husky enjoys pulling something (whether it be a sled or owner)

Yet when dogs that were particularly bred for an inclination for attack or violent behaviour (such as presa canarios or pit bulls) behave in such a manner the breed's supporters argue that their breeds are not violent at all.

All dogs have the capacity for violent behaviour. Some dogs have been bred particularly to exhibit that behaviour.

Anyone who argues that is in a state of denial.

As for the people who state that more golden retrievers or poodles bite more people than pitbulls, that is a ridiculous argument as there are 100 times more glodens and poodles out there than pitbulls (or presa's, whichever the case).

Exactly... one aspect of selective breeding is to make one or more traits (physical or mental) more dominant. Pits were originally breed for dog fights, the traits needed for such activities are 'aggression' and 'pain resistance'; it's not the dog's fault that it has an inclination to attack, it was breed/designed too.

Originally posted by Fishy
Stupid dog, the parents should have known the danger of that thing... But it always makes me wonder how the hell did that dog get to the child in the first place?

It's not the dog's fault that it's owner refused to get it trained and controlled

Animals cannot be blamed for the wrongdoings of their owners

I have a Pit-bull terrier, and he runs away from anyone isn't my family and hides underneath my brother's bed....

Originally posted by Grimm22
Animals cannot be blamed for the wrongdoings of their owners

Nor can they be blamed for being what they are. That does not make them any less potentially dangerous.

My wife has been bitten or bite at by more toy and small dogs than any other breed. She has less fear of Pittbulls and Rots than smaller dogs, the numbers everyone keeps reporting are inflated and skewed. Can larger dogs do more damage and kill a large human, yes but in numbers they are no more aggressive most other breeds that were breed to hunt and kill.

Originally posted by Kayne Archeron
pit bulls are aggressive, but not naturally THIS violent. NO ANIMAL that you can legally own in your home is THAT violent on its own. this had to be an abusive act of the owners

That sums it up for me. Any dog can get like this.

The other thing that many people keep overlooking is that the pit fighting dogs of this generation are not in the general populace, when they are found the dog is destroyed by law so the traits are not being passed on as everyone assumes. The vast majority of "pit fighting" breeds that everyone is so worried about have for many generations are house hold pets. The other common problem for aggression is dogs is the owner not spaying or neutering their house hold pets, this in any dog reduces aggression and behavior issues and health risks.

This bull. Pitbulls ain't violent unless you make it that way. My neighbor has a pet pitbull and it doesn't even bully Chiwawas.

Edit: Also, am I also aggressive and gonna kill people? My family tree extends to katana-wielding people that cuts off people's head.

anecdotal evidence>>>WIN!!
irrelevant connection>>>WIN!!

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4310/baddognt6.gif

Sure, pit bulls have a great potential for damage, and have a potential to be agressive more than other dogs, but ultimately it's the owners fault for not taking the leadership role.

Was that like a joke? What kind of intelligent deduction could you possibly lack to assume that is something that needs to be thought about?

"Was the dog dangerous?"

"I don't know, all it did was kill a kid."

Originally posted by ThePittman
The other thing that many people keep overlooking is that the pit fighting dogs of this generation are not in the general populace, when they are found the dog is destroyed by law so the traits are not being passed on as everyone assumes. The vast majority of "pit fighting" breeds that everyone is so worried about have for many generations are house hold pets. The other common problem for aggression is dogs is the owner not spaying or neutering their house hold pets, this in any dog reduces aggression and behavior issues and health risks.

*raises hand* So the assumption is that behavior traits are passed down through the generations?

Is that actually fact?

Originally posted by smoker4
My hometown is all over the english media at the moment, why anyone would want one of these dogs as a pet is beyond me!

A post-mortem examination on a dog that killed a five-year-old girl will determine whether the animal was subject to the Dangerous Dogs Act.

Ellie Lawrenson, from St Helens, was mauled to death early on Monday morning by an adult pitbull terrier-type dog despite desperate attempts by her grandmother to save her.

The dog's owner - Ellie's uncle - had been officially warned about his pet's behaviour in June last year.

Owners of pure-bred pitbull terriers are legally to blame for attacks made by them under the provisions of the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act.

A spokeswoman for St Helens Council said the warning letter had been sent to the uncle, named locally as Kiel Simpson, after a neighbour said the animal had attacked his dog in May.

Several neighbours are reported to have said the animal had violent tendencies and at least one other person has claimed he and his dog were attacked.

Jackie Simpson, 46, had been babysitting her granddaughter while the mother, named locally as Lyndsay, was out celebrating New Year.

Ms Simpson also suffered serious injuries in the deadly assault. The dog was shot at the scene by police marksmen.

It is unknown at this stage whether Ellie was asleep when the dog pounced or what prompted the vicious attack, but officers will be investigating whether fireworks may have scared the animal.

Source
pit bulls are too dangerous. and fugly.

Originally posted by chithappens
*raises hand* So the assumption is that behavior traits are passed down through the generations?

Is that actually fact? Yes many behavior traits are passed down from generation to generation, this is well proven but this is also not the only factor.Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
pit bulls are too dangerous. and fugly. I hope your joking

nope, they are the ugliest animal i have ever seen.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Yes many behavior traits are passed down from generation to generation, this is well proven but this is also not the only factor.

Not calling you a liar, I would just like a link

Originally posted by ThePittman
The other thing that many people keep overlooking is that the pit fighting dogs of this generation are not in the general populace, when they are found the dog is destroyed by law so the traits are not being passed on as everyone assumes. The vast majority of "pit fighting" breeds that everyone is so worried about have for many generations are house hold pets. The other common problem for aggression is dogs is the owner not spaying or neutering their house hold pets, this in any dog reduces aggression and behavior issues and health risks.

Aggression (more so than other breeds) is still in them, that trait was specifically magnified in them through breeding, how can you ignore that? There's a reason why you don't hear many "dog attack" stories from others breeds as you do with Pitbulls and the like. How many Golden Retriever, Labrador, Dalmatian, Husky, Giant Schnauzer or Great Dane maulings do you hear about?

Originally posted by Robtard
Aggression (more so than other breeds) is still in them, that trait was specifically magnified in them through breeding, how can you ignore that? There's a reason why you don't hear many "dog attack" stories from others breeds as you do with Pitbulls and the like. How many Golden Retriever, Labrador, Dalmatian, Husky, Giant Schnauzer or Great Dane maulings do you hear about?

I better call a doctor, I might get a katana and cut off someone's head, its in my blood.

Originally posted by Robtard
Aggression (more so than other breeds) is still in them, that trait was specifically magnified in them through breeding, how can you ignore that? There's a reason why you don't hear many "dog attack" stories from others breeds as you do with Pitbulls and the like. How many Golden Retriever, Labrador, Dalmatian, Husky, Giant Schnauzer or Great Dane maulings do you hear about? I have already posted why you hear more stories about Pitbulls and Rots than other breeds and the inflated stats that are supporting the bans.

Any dog that was trained to kill and hunt prey is just as naturally aggressive as the Pitbull; other breeds were also breed to kill and hunt and other to attach humans. Many German Shepherds are trained as guard and attack dogs breed specify to attack humans and in far greater numbers that of Pitbulls being trained for dog fights but why not ban them as well?

Originally posted by ThePittman
I have already posted why you hear more stories about Pitbulls and Rots than other breeds and the inflated stats that are supporting the bans.

Any dog that was trained to kill and hunt prey is just as naturally aggressive as the Pitbull; other breeds were also breed to kill and hunt and other to attach humans. Many German Shepherds are trained as guard and attack dogs breed specify to attack humans and in far greater numbers that of Pitbulls being trained for dog fights but why not ban them as well? German shepherds are one of the most trainable breeds out there, as well as dobermans. That's why they make good attack dogs, and/or K9 dogs. On the flip side, they can be trained to be the biggest sissy family dog too. Comparing them to pit bulls is not a fair comparison. Same thing with Rotts, they are like a lump of clay, waiting to be molded into whatever you want them to be.

Pitts and Chows, I dunno what it is about them. Something in their bloodline, I guess. They are very unpredictable.

Pitbulls are very trainable just as any breed if you know what you are doing; my wife has less trust of a Chow or a Border Collie than any other breed. Bull Terriers and Akitas are probably the hardest breed of dogs to train.

Buy the logic that most people are using all of these breeds should be band as well because all of them were also used and breed as fighting dogs.

Bull terrier
Tosa Inu
Akita Inu
Sharpei
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
American Staffordshire Terrier
American Pit Bull Terrier
Bulldogs
Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier

Originally posted by Violent K
I better call a doctor, I might get a katana and cut off someone's head, its in my blood.

Dumb and irrelevant post.

Originally posted by ThePittman
I have already posted why you hear more stories about Pit Bulls and Rots than other breeds and the inflated stats that are supporting the bans.

Any dog that was trained to kill and hunt prey is just as naturally aggressive as the Pitbull; other breeds were also breed to kill and hunt and other to attach humans. Many German Shepherds are trained as guard and attack dogs breed specify to attack humans and in far greater numbers that of Pit Bulls being trained for dog fights but why not ban them as well?

Yes, just about any dog can be trained to attack, that is correct; you're still ignoring that Pit Bulls have a higher level on aggression in them because it was specifically magnified into the breed. That makes them unreliable and more dangerous than other attack dogs.

Is there a reason why certain dogs make better retrievers or trackers so hunters use those dogs for a reason? Yes, because those traits were magnified into certain breeds... can you train another dog to do those same task? Yes you can, but they won't be as proficient in said task.

Originally posted by Robtard
Dumb and irrelevant post.



Yes, just about any dog can be trained to attack, that is correct; you're still ignoring that Pit Bulls have a higher level on aggression in them because it was specifically magnified into the breed. That makes them unreliable and more dangerous than other attack dogs.

Is there a reason why certain dogs make better retrievers or trackers so hunters use those dogs for a reason? Yes, because those traits were magnified into certain breeds... can you train another dog to do those same task? Yes you can, but they won't be as proficient in said task. No I'm not ignoring that Pitbulls have aggression, all dogs have this and no more than any other breed that was trained to hunt and kill. All these dogs were breed and trained as fighting dogs but do people have a problem with them? They all have the same "level" of breeding and aggression but it is only that Pitbull is a keyword and that the stats on dog attacks are skewed.

Just some of the other breeds that were bread and raised as fighting dogs.

Bull terrier
Tosa Inu
Akita Inu
Sharpei
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
American Staffordshire Terrier
American Pit Bull Terrier
Bulldogs
Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier