Did Lucifer have any offspring? Son/Daugter

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



The Prophecy
I was just wondering because I'm doing research for a special project and I really need this information.

Shakyamunison
No, mythological beings are not real, or literal.

However, I digress; No, Lucifer never had any sons or daughters.

AXE_MURDERER
I am new to this forum but I think you should be very careful what you discuss here - you should not mess with the occult - you weill get seriously burned - believe me - I know!

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by AXE_MURDERER
I am new to this forum but I think you should be very careful what you discuss here - you should not mess with the occult - you weill get seriously burned - believe me - I know!

Why?

AXE_MURDERER
Believe me - don't mess with this stuff - I have been marked. I was only 21 when I stepped too far into the darkness - believe me! You may think you are being clever, but it will only end in tears.

lord xyz
Originally posted by The Prophecy
I was just wondering because I'm doing research for a special project and I really need this information. Now I haven't read the Bible, but to my knowledge the only thing close to lucifer having a child is The Omen.

AXE_MURDERER
Did you know the Omen was based on truth?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by AXE_MURDERER
Believe me - don't mess with this stuff - I have been marked. I was only 21 when I stepped too far into the darkness - believe me! You may think you are being clever, but it will only end in tears.

What are you talking about? When you say "this stuff" what are you referring too? You have been marked, what does that mean. "stepped too far into the darkness" I have no idea what you are talking about, please give names to the vague terms you are hinting about.

AXE_MURDERER
Have you any knowlege of demonic possession? If you do then you should know what I mean about being 'marked' - you would also kno wwhat I meant about stepping too far into the darkness.

If you have no knowledge of such things then my warning stands - be careful what you delve into........

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by AXE_MURDERER
Did you know the Omen was based on truth?

eek! What! The Omen was a movie, not truth. laughing The Omen is not in the bible, anywhere.

Oncewhite
Originally posted by AXE_MURDERER
I am new to this forum but I think you should be very careful what you discuss here - you should not mess with the occult - you weill get seriously burned - believe me - I know!

Really, what kind of occult are you talking about? Oiji boards? That stuff isn't cool.

Well, Lucifer is a light baring star, and can take human form or any form, as these kinds of entities can. Any offspring of a spirit being and a human is FORBIDDEN.

Why? Were your parents into the devil worship or something? If so, go to church and pray pray pray, and have faith in God.

AXE_MURDERER
I know the Omen was a movie - but believe me that story is not as fictional as you may think

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by AXE_MURDERER
Have you any knowlege of demonic possession? If you do then you should know what I mean about being 'marked' - you would also kno wwhat I meant about stepping too far into the darkness.

If you have no knowledge of such things then my warning stands - be careful what you delve into........

There is no such thing as a demon, therefore, there is no such thing as demonic possession. Night time is dark, is that darkness?

Oncewhite
Originally posted by AXE_MURDERER
I know the Omen was a movie - but believe me that story is not as fictional as you may think


Most fictional stories are based on true events, but they change the names and setting...I think some movies would have this disclaimer as people would start accusing the writters of knowing or someone in their family for telling it for money to producers...even bookwriters have to state that the story is not taken from someone else...but, people do anything for money, and will tell on someone to an author or producer for cash, and those folks just change the names and slightly change other things like maybe races or area or whatever....and before you know it, it's a great horror, comedy, romance,...story....

The truth IS stranger then fiction, I have been able to live this one, and I know that the truth is far stranger then the fiction books I've read.

King Kandy
He's doing this because he's making a comic book where the main character is a demon, lay off.

Mythologically, I believe you may be thinking of SATAN, who had many offspring.

lord xyz
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
eek! What! The Omen was a movie, not truth. laughing The Omen is not in the bible, anywhere. Nor is the Bible true.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by King Kandy
He's doing this because he's making a comic book where the main character is a demon, lay off.

Mythologically, I believe you may be thinking of SATAN, who had many offspring.

I'm not trying to get on his case, just trying to understand what he is talking about. Most people assume that others understand what they are talking about. However, this is not always true. Cultural differences lead to very different interpretations of cultural icons.

FROGSNOT
LUCIFER IS MY HERO HE IS GREAT AT POKER

AXE_MURDERER
Fools think they know all the answers - truly enlightened people know they know nothing

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by AXE_MURDERER
Fools think they know all the answers - truly enlightened people know they know nothing

Are you calling someone a fool?

AXE_MURDERER
Originally posted by lord xyz
Nor is the Bible true.


You shall believe come judgement day!

FROGSNOT
I KNOW THERE IS A HELL OR WERE WOULD HITLER BE IN THE GROUND??

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by AXE_MURDERER
You shall believe come judgement day!



There is no such thing as a judgement day.

AXE_MURDERER
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Are you calling someone a fool?

If you think you know it all then you must be a fool

FROGSNOT
LUCIFER IS A MAN WITH SOME TRYE VALUES

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by AXE_MURDERER
If you think you know it all then you must be a fool

Then I have good company. Do not judge, for you will be judged by the same standard.

AXE_MURDERER
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is no such thing as a judgement day.

It doesn't exist - it will exist

FROGSNOT
I ONE SAW LUCIFER AT A PRIMAL CREAMER SHOW HE HAD A BANDANA ON WITH A SKULL AND CROSSBONE ON IT ,MAYBE A SHATTERED SOUL I THINK?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by AXE_MURDERER
It doesn't exist - it will exist

That is what you believe. The belief in a Judgment day can lead to suffering.

AXE_MURDERER
Jaysus is my shepherd
He cometh to me in the night
He sayeth my dreams are crystal
He bringeth forth the light!"

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by AXE_MURDERER
Jaysus is my shepherd
He cometh to me in the night
He sayeth my dreams are crystal
He bringeth forth the light!"

The three evil paths lead to suffering.

The Prophecy
Originally posted by AXE_MURDERER
Believe me - don't mess with this stuff - I have been marked. I was only 21 when I stepped too far into the darkness - believe me! You may think you are being clever, but it will only end in tears.

oh no I'm not, no....trust me. I'm doing this for research for a new comic book character i'm creating lol.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by The Prophecy
oh no I'm not, no....trust me. I'm doing this for research for a new comic book character i'm creating lol.

Oh! Your the comic book guy, cool. big grin

The Prophecy
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is no such thing as a demon, therefore, there is no such thing as demonic possession. Night time is dark, is that darkness?

Many people may disagree with your statement. While calling God or Lucifer mythological creatures your asking for a big controversy. I mean your entilted to your own opinion but still be careful what you say. and that's not a threat. smile Also as for I dont know what to believe. But I will say I do believe in God and everything on the bible. that is someything i will not deny. You never who's right.

The Prophecy
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Oh! Your the comic book guy, cool. big grin

the comic book guy? How do you know me?

FROGSNOT
GOD IS A DJ AS ANNOUNCED BY FAITHLESS

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by The Prophecy
Many people may disagree with your statement. while God or Lucifer mythological creatures your asking for a big controversy. I mean your entilted to your own opinion but still be careful what you say. and that's not a threat. smile

big grin Thank you, for your advice, however, I am intensionally being provocative. I wish to see the depth of the other posters fear or belief.

Originally posted by The Prophecy
the comic book guy? How do you know me?

I don't know you, I simply misunderstood who someone was talking about.

The Prophecy
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
big grin Thank you, for your advice, however, I am intensionally being provocative. I wish to see the depth of the other posters fear or belief.



I don't know you, I simply misunderstood who someone was talking about.

Ok.. I see. smile

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by FROGSNOT
GOD IS A DJ AS ANNOUNCED BY FAITHLESS


BTW FROGSNOT you are too funny. big grin

Oncewhite

The Prophecy

Oncewhite
Originally posted by The Prophecy
Is this referring to me.

Not at all, unless you are the one who wrote about "garth" the white plantation owner who was turned into a Zombie...if you didn't write that one, then no, it's not directed to you at all. And that was just a general example of "life tales" that are written into fiction work, not trying to address any particular person, just general ideas that "fiction" is sometimes taken from true life events, writers aren't always creative in plots, they are creative at forming the imagination via suspense in making words very vivid, but not necessarily in the story line, they can build a character, but may not "see" a good way of putting a plot together, so once a person knows a real life plot, and they are good at putting together a suspense in words...all they need is a pen and paper, and it's a sale. if they are producers, then they just pay folks to find a story, and pay actors who can play the plot they just paid for...the major reason why writers and producers hide the fact that some of their work is taken or bought from true life events is:

1. if the story is very strange, may cause "chicken littles" of this world to go crazy, pandomania

2. getting a lawsuit

The Prophecy
Originally posted by Oncewhite
Not at all, unless you are the one who wrote about "garth" the white plantation owner who was turned into a Zombie...if you didn't write that one, then no, it's not directed to you at all. And that was just a general example of "life tales" that are written into fiction work, not trying to address any particular person, just general ideas that "fiction" is sometimes taken from true life events, writers aren't always creative in plots, they are creative at forming the imagination via suspense in making words very vivid, but not necessarily in the story line, they can build a character, but may not "see" a good way of putting a plot together, so once a person knows a real life plot, and they are good at putting together a suspense in words...all they need is a pen and paper, and it's a sale. if they are producers, then they just pay folks to find a story, and pay actors who can play the plot they just paid for...

OK, I see.

Oncewhite
the major reason why writers and producers hide the fact that some of their work is taken or bought from true life events is:

1. if the story is very strange, may cause "chicken littles" of this world to go crazy, mass public mania.

2. getting a lawsuit

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Oncewhite
the major reason why writers and producers hide the fact that some of their work is taken or bought from true life events is:

1. if the story is very strange, may cause "chicken littles" of this world to go crazy, mass public mania.

2. getting a lawsuit

A "true life event" could be false. For example; The Amityville Horror was based on a true story, however, it was later determined that the "true story" was made up.

Oncewhite
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
A "true life event" could be false. For example; The Amityville Horror was based on a true story, however, it was later determined that the "true story" was made up.

You do have a point, I don't know that much about that particular "huanted house", but, I know that it's better for the human psychie to prove these things wrong or for a person to say "it was made up"...b/c the consequence is too much, we do this on both sides of the fence, in some degree, we want to believe or at least be entertained by the freakish unknown, but to another, we want confidence that this can't happen or didn't happen.

debbiejo
Occult only means to have knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occult

As for the story of Lucifer having offspring? Yeah, I was married to it. mad LOL

Though for real, a spirit would not be able to have sex with a more solid form...It would be like having sex with the wind.

Oncewhite
Originally posted by debbiejo
Occult only means to have knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occult

As for the story of Lucifer having offspring? Yeah, I was married to it. mad LOL

Though for real, a spirit would not be able to have sex with a more solid form...It would be like having sex with the wind.

Your joking right? The spirit world takes human and animal like forms, as they can move through in/out of dimensions.

And regarding Lucifer, that is the name of the bearer of light, a star, a fallen star or angel.

Satan is totally different.

And you were probably married to a devilish man, or a man who was opposed to doing good, I doubt you were married to Lucifer.

And everyone knows that occult means knowledge or hidden knowledge.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Oncewhite
...Satan is totally different...

laughing That is funny. laughing


"Satan is totally different" is just as silly as "Santa Close is totally different" or "The Easter Bunny is totally different".

Oncewhite
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
laughing That is funny. laughing


"Satan is totally different" is just as silly as "Santa Close is totally different" or "The Easter Bunny is totally different".

Yeah, based on the definition provided, Satan is an "alein" being, a snake but I don't think the same as Lucifer, which is a fallen angel.

And demons are workers or legeons for Lucifer...
there "programs" or "programmed enities" that try to come into our dimension and influence our actions, via suggestive thoughts, the argument is always in thought first. Some of our thoughts are our own, others are from other people's thoughts we pick up on, other thoughts are from entities (good or bad).

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Oncewhite
Yeah, based on the definition provided, Satan is an "alein" being, a snake but I don't think the same as Lucifer, which is a fallen angel.

And demons are workers or legeons for Lucifer...
there "programs" or "programmed enities" that try to come into our dimension and influence our actions, via suggestive thoughts, the argument is always in thought first. Some of our thoughts are our own, others are from other people's thoughts we pick up on, other thoughts are from entities (good or bad).

However, Satan and Lucifer have one think in common; they are both fictional.

Nellinator
Haha Shaky made a funny.

Oncewhite
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, Satan and Lucifer have one think in common; they are both fictional.

Yeah, if you think that anything that can't be seen with a naked eye doesn't exist, I bet if you were living in the 15th century, "virus" would be fiction too, or anything else you couldn't see with a naked eye.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Oncewhite
Yeah, if you think that anything that can't be seen with a naked eye doesn't exist, I bet if you were living in the 15th century, "virus" would be fiction too, or anything else you couldn't see with a naked eye.

almost everybody thought that way

but then sane intelligent people provided evidence

you and other people who think Satan and Lucifer were aliens have failed to do so

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Oncewhite
Yeah, if you think that anything that can't be seen with a naked eye doesn't exist, I bet if you were living in the 15th century, "virus" would be fiction too, or anything else you couldn't see with a naked eye.

Maybe, but most likely not.

Oncewhite
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
almost everybody thought that way

but then sane intelligent people provided evidence

you and other people who think Satan and Lucifer were aliens have failed to do so


I didn't say that Lucifer is an alien, and if u define alien as non-human, then, it's intelligent to think of Satan as an alien or foriegn entity.

And if you want to believe that there aren't any spiritual forces, positive or negative, then that's your right, but, I think differently.

Oncewhite
Here's some play info on a zombie character. It's ironic and sad. Just seems like the ones doing the voodoo think they are "teaching someone a lesson" and then, the next generation of kids or whomever, gets into comics and re-tells the stories in a play fashion, and everyone laughs or looks at it as freakish....but the problem of voodoo is still around...

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/z/zombie.htm

It's a silly story, but just read the background and how this character was so bad, he deserved to be a zombie, and I read somewhere else he was a plantation owner, oh well.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, Satan and Lucifer have one think in common; they are both fictional.
No, lucifer most certainly exists, any moron who looks in the sky can tell you that.

It's more commenly known as "Venus".

Lord Urizen
Aren't Lucifer and Satan the SAME being ?

Marxman
Originally posted by debbiejo
Occult only means to have knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occult

As for the story of Lucifer having offspring? Yeah, I was married to it. mad LOL

Though for real, a spirit would not be able to have sex with a more solid form...It would be like having sex with the wind.

Zues had many half-human off-springs.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Aren't Lucifer and Satan the SAME being ?
The common belief on the morningstar of Isaiah 14:12 is that is indeed a reference to Satan.

Oncewhite
Originally posted by Nellinator
The common belief on the morningstar of Isaiah 14:12 is that is indeed a reference to Satan.


The common belief is that Christ is the last name of Jesus, and that Jesus was the name he was called when he was in Jerusalem and that he spoke the queen's language (British English)...which is a nice sounding language....

but the "common" beliefs of the time...uhm...I like to question those..., that's why I wanted to pose the question, just like I would ask, "what's the last name of Jesus", you know, thought provoking, passes time.

debbiejo
Isaiah 14:12 (KJV) "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"

However, here's how the verse appears in some modern translations:

Isaiah 14:12 (NIV) "How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!"

Isaiah 14:12 (NASB) "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!"

Isaiah 14:12 (Young's Literal Translation) "How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations."

Thought this was interesting too..

Job 38:7 (KJV) "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

In Job 38:7, the KJV indicates that this is not just a title for Christ, as it is also given to other angelic beings.

Probably came from an older source.

"Light-bringer," Latin title for the Morning Star god who announced the daily birth of the sun..Cannanite called him Shaher, The Jeish Shaharit (Morning Service) still commemorates him. Shaher's twin brother Shalem, the Evening Star, announced the daily death of the sun and spoke to him the Word of peace (Hebrew shalom, Arabic Salaam)..Shaleem was worshipped along with his brother in Jerusalem, which means "House of Shalem." Shaher and Shalem were the same as the Greeks Dioscuri or Heavenly Twins, Castor and Pollux, born of Leda World Egg...Cannanite myth said Shaher coveted the superior glory of the sun god and tried to usurp his thrown...Pagan scriptures of the 7th century BC include a dirge for the fallen Morning Star:

How hast thou fallen from heaven, Helel's son Shaher! Thou didst say in thy heart, I will ascend to heaven, above the circumpolar stars I will raise my thrown, and I will dwell on the Mount of Council in the back of the north, I will mount on the back of a cloud, I will be like unto Elyon..

Centuries later, a Jewish scribe copied this Canaanite scripture into the Bible and pretended it was written by Isaiah..Quoting Isaiah 14:12-14

King Kandy
Originally posted by Nellinator
The common belief on the morningstar of Isaiah 14:12 is that is indeed a reference to Satan.
Aye, but that belief is in error.

PVS
i was under the impression that angels can not breed

Nellinator
Originally posted by PVS
i was under the impression that angels can not breed
You would be right. However, the discussion degenerated beyond mentioning that. I guess this thread has been pwned.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by PVS
i was under the impression that angels can not breed

the Fallen (or something like that) manged it with human women

I think its just that angles are supposed to be pure and asexual

Nellinator
When did any angelic being have sexual relations with a human?

Symmetric Chaos
they were called the Grigori in apocrypha and it is mentioned in Genesis

At that time the Nephilim appeared on earth, after the sons of heaven had intercourse with the daughters of man, who bore them sons. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown. (Genesis 6:1-4)

I can quote the bible too

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
When did any angelic being have sexual relations with a human?

Supposedly, before the Great Flood, male angels travelled to Earth, mated with human women, and gave birth to Giants. One of God's goals was to wipe out the Giants during the flood.

supdude
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Supposedly, before the Great Flood, male angels travelled to Earth, mated with human women, and gave birth to Giants. One of God's goals was to wipe out the Giants during the flood.

sup dude..

that's what i heard to. bit off topic..but you seem to know lot bout the bible..so why do you think god just didnt wipe out all of the evil to begin with? i mean, he definitely got the power to do all that...if hes god an all. whats your opine on this?

Nellinator
I was hoping someone would mention that passage because it is very interesting.

There are four common beliefs on the passage:
1. The sons of heaven were indeed angels
2. Atlantians
3. Fallen angels
4. Descendants of Seth coming unto the descendants of the other people God created on the sixth day, or possibly the descendants of Cain

I will be making a thread on the 3rd possibility soon, it is really a matter of spiritual warfare.

supdude
Originally posted by Nellinator
I was hoping someone would mention that passage because it is very interesting.

There are four common beliefs on the passage:
1. The sons of heaven were indeed angels
2. Atlantians
3. Fallen angels
4. Descendants of Seth coming unto the descendants of the other people God created on the sixth day, or possibly the descendants of Cain

I will be making a thread on the 3rd possibility soon, it is really a matter of spiritual warfare.

yup..possibility 3 is what ive been lead to believe. teh Nephilim is what the offspring were called. teh 3rd possibility makes the most since to me, it would definately shed some truth to all the giant stories, taken from various cultures.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by supdude
sup dude..

that's what i heard to. bit off topic..but you seem to know lot bout the bible..so why do you think god just didnt wipe out all of the evil to begin with? i mean, he definitely got the power to do all that...if hes god an all. whats your opine on this?


I do know a lot about the Bible, but I don't beleive in any of it. It's just mythology and human wisdom to me..nothing more.


God doesn't wipe out evil because that God doesn't exist. A creation force may exist, or a cosmic unity might, but Ahramaic God is a sham...completely....

peejayd
"He who is of God hears the words of God; the reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
John 8:47, 44

Symmetric Chaos
You need to say more than bible quotes

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by peejayd
"He who is of God hears the words of God; the reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.


What about when I was Christian ? For 18 years of my life ?

What about when I prayed to him every morning and night ? Praised him every day for everything I loved....

I never heard God before, even then......why is that ?






Originally posted by peejayd
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires.




Oh, GOD....here's some more JIA bullshit roll eyes (sarcastic)


If my will was truly that of Satan's, I'd probly be destroying cities, killing babies, and drowning people....oh wait, that's GODS WILL ! eek!



Originally posted by peejayd



Oh, u mean the way GOD murdered the first born sons of Egypt, everyone in Sodom and Gomorrha, and 99.99999% of the human and animal populace during the Great Flood ?



Originally posted by peejayd



Oh I agree ...that's because Satan doesn't EXIST !





Originally posted by peejayd




Do you have proof to validate your Biblical argument ? Or are you just another zealot here to annoy me ?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Lord Urizen

Do you have proof to validate your Biblical argument ? Or are you just another zealot here to annoy me ?

well data about Satan is mostly Bible exclusive

when it comes to the personality if mythic figure you have to rely on the source material

as for peejayed as a zealot I don't think he is so much most of the time he posts more than a quote

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
as for peejayed as a zealot I don't think he is so much most of the time he posts more than a quote


HE just said I was a child of Satan.....that's very zealous, and a very dangerous mentality to have.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by peejayd
"He who is of God hears the words of God; the reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."
John 8:47, 44

Why do you believe in the bible?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why do you believe in the bible?


"Because God wrote it "



How do you know God wrote it ?



"Because the Bible says so"

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
"Because God wrote it "



How do you know God wrote it ?



"Because the Bible says so"

So, you have seen this before?

I think the real truth is that mommy and daddy told them this, and they are not willing to let go of the oldest beliefs they have. That is ok with me, I just wish they would admit it.

Lord Urizen
laughing

Nellinator
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, you have seen this before?

I think the real truth is that mommy and daddy told them this, and they are not willing to let go of the oldest beliefs they have. That is ok with me, I just wish they would admit it.
Now I know you know this is not the case for millions of Christians worldwide.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Now I know you know this is not the case for millions of Christians worldwide.



Ofcourse not....


some Christians found Christianity as a solution and truly beleive it. Other Christians were convinced out of fear and peer pressure to abandon thier original beleifs, and just conform.

Nellinator
As long as that is clear.

AXE_MURDERER
Originally posted by Oncewhite
The common belief is that Christ is the last name of Jesus, and that Jesus was the name he was called when he was in Jerusalem and that he spoke the queen's language (British English)...which is a nice sounding language....

but the "common" beliefs of the time...uhm...I like to question those..., that's why I wanted to pose the question, just like I would ask, "what's the last name of Jesus", you know, thought provoking, passes time.

You BLOODSUCKING ASSCRAP!

Storm
Watch your language!

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
As long as that is clear.


We don't all subscribe to the beleif that Christians are just a bunch of mindless zombies Nell.....I may make jokes towards Christianity, but i don't seriously think that.

supdude
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
We don't all subscribe to the beleif that Christians are just a bunch of mindless zombies Nell.....I may make jokes towards Christianity, but i don't seriously think that.

Do TRUE christians know they are slaves?

yes

Do non christians and satan know they are slaves?

no

Would I rather be a slave to love?

yes

Why would I rather be a slave to love?

because it sets me free from slavery...and then calls me a FRIEND.

Why they HELL would I someone want to be THE with the embodyment of EVIL. i dont like hurting people. I dont like BEING SELFISH, so if God is...

1. patient
2. kind
3. does not anger easily
4. revels in truth
5. keeps no record of right or wrong
6. never fails

then ofcourse thier aint nutting this world can offer me that i would CHOOSE over him. So case in point..someone who realizes the selfish version of "love" is in this life..is NATURALLY going to be drawn to GOD's love instead of the world love...not because thier a ZOMBIE..but cause they realize that this world dont have REAL LOVE to offer them..atleast not like the lOVE JESUS offered them on the CROSS.

So case in point again..but anyway your argument is INVALID

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by supdude
Do TRUE christians know they are slaves?


Slaves of thier own Ignorance yes





Originally posted by supdude
Do non christians and satan know they are slaves?


Oh, so Christians know this great big secret that the rest of us don't ? eek!


FYI- I was Christian for 18 years of my life....don't try bullshitting me now.....



Originally posted by supdude
Would I rather be a slave to love?


I WOULD droolio




Originally posted by supdude
Why would I rather be a slave to love?


CUZ ITS KINKY ! droolio



Originally posted by supdude
because it sets me free from slavery...and then calls me a FRIEND.



Slavery sets you free from Slavery ?


You have good logic !





Originally posted by supdude
Why they HELL would I someone want to be THE with the embodyment of EVIL. i dont like hurting people. I dont like BEING SELFISH, so if God is...



I don't like hurting people either no

At least we have one thing in common ....







Originally posted by supdude
1. patient


If God is eternal, i wouldn't give him credit for having any patience what-so-ever since Time is irrelevant to him.

But one can argue God is patient...seeing how he immediately banished Adam and Eve from the Garden into a life of misery, simply because they ate a fruit.....


God's patience = 0



Originally posted by supdude
2. kind


Oh he is most certainly kind !

He killed every except Noah and his family during the Great Flood. That is over 99% of the human population, not to mention all the animals he drowned as well....

And also, he sends us to a place of Eternal Torment if we don't obey.....he's so KIND !


God's kindness= 0




Originally posted by supdude
3. does not anger easily


True, true, true...so true.


His wrath is so gentle...that is why destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha, burning men, women, and children into powder.....

Oh God, ye are so merciful !


God's mercy= 0







Originally posted by supdude
4. revels in truth


Which is why he supplied to proof for his existance ! eek!


God's Truthfulness= 0





Originally posted by supdude
5. keeps no record of right or wrong



So the Book of Life is...what ?


Sins......don't mean anything to him ?

So what's the point of Hell then ?

If God keeps no record of right and wrong, then how does he know who to let into Heaven and who goes to Hell ?


I think you are confused as to the details of your own mythology


Zero.. thumb down










Originally posted by supdude
6. never fails



Oh yeah, God did a GREAT JOB during the Holocaust !


God's reliability= 0




Originally posted by supdude
then ofcourse thier aint nutting this world can offer me that i would CHOOSE over him. So case in point..someone who realizes the selfish version of "love" is in this life..is NATURALLY going to be drawn to GOD's love instead of the world love...not because thier a ZOMBIE..but cause they realize that this world dont have REAL LOVE to offer them..atleast not like the lOVE JESUS offered them on the CROSS.


It's sad that you have to resort to the illusion that you possess the Love of some imaginary being, simply because you couldn't find that kind of love in another human being.


I am sorry for that....


BTW, when did i call Christians zombies ?




Originally posted by supdude
So case in point again..but anyway your argument is INVALID


What argument ? I said Christian's are not zombies.... I think you just proved me wrong....

laughing


Moron

supdude
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Slaves of thier own Ignorance yes

Slavery sets you free from Slavery ?



WRONGS

..the embodyment of LOVE does not contain IGNORANCE..LOVE IS EMBODIED BY TRUTH, WISDOM, COMPASSION, KNOWLEDGE, PATIENCE, KINDESS..and all that good stuff.

So If i'm a slave to love, then i understand that IM not truly a slave..cause a slave does not get to share all the good stuff with HIS MASTER..but a FRIEND does..


Bad Try

thumb down


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I don't like hurting people either no



thumb up

1 point for u. but you still continue to HURT me with your POOR LOGIC..AND PATHETIC ARGUMENTS.


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
If God is eternal, i wouldn't give him credit for having any patience what-so-ever since Time is irrelevant to him.

But one can argue God is patient...seeing how he immediately banished Adam and Eve from the Garden into a life of misery, simply because they ate a fruit.....


You try being at the beginning and the end..and having to witness sin over and over..and YOUR DEATH at the hands of your OWN CHILDREN over and OVER. When you've done this, then YOU can MAKE a VALID JUDGEMENT about giving credit for being PATIENT.

God's patience = + Infinity

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Oh he is most certainly kind !

He killed every except Noah and his family during the Great Flood. That is over 99% of the human population, not to mention all the animals he drowned as well....

And also, he sends us to a place of Eternal Torment if we don't obey.....he's so KIND !

God's kindness= 0

True, true, true...so true.


His wrath is so gentle...that is why destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha, burning men, women, and children into powder.....

Oh God, ye are so merciful !


God's mercy= 0


He's letting you live right now EVEN THOUGH you and I say and do MEAN, and hurtful things about him. EVEN WITH ALL THIS..he'll still forgive us ALL For our sins, if we come to him with a CONTRITE HEART..and earnestly ask him for forgiveness..

God's kindness= Infinity + 1
God's mercy = Infinity + 2



Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Which is why he supplied to proof for his existance ! eek!


God's Truthfulness= 0


WTF..that makes no sense..so I'm going to respond with a non sensical argument..meaning..ill provide you with no response.

God's Truth = Infinity + 3





Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So the Book of Life is...what ?


laughing

exactly what it says it is..that being the book of life..rolleyes...

Those who choose Christ choose "life" and their "names" will be "written" in the BOOK of life...roll eyes (sarcastic)

if it were a record of rights and wrongs..i think God would LOGICALLY call it "the book of rights and wrongs"

Your killing me with your KEEN logic, Literary skills, knowledge of scripture, and and RATIONALE..laughing

Originally posted by lil bitchness
Sins......don't mean anything to him ?

So what's the point of Hell then ?

If God keeps no record of right and wrong, then how does he know who to let into Heaven and who goes to Hell ?


read the above.


Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I think you are confused as to the details of your own mythology


Zero.. thumb down

It's sad that you have to resort to the illusion that you possess the Love of some imaginary being, simply because you couldn't find that kind of love in another human being.

I am sorry for that....


I think your confused into thinking that your witty and intelligent..but youve just proven that your just as helpless as the rest of us..

its sad that you cling to the illusion of what you consider love to be..AND reject the true LOVE that GOD has made available to you.

I wish no ill will upon you..but i do hope you see god the same way as I do myself someday.

im going to bed dude. verbally whoppin peoples assess on a message board takes a lot out of a man..laughing

Nellinator
Try to show more patience and use less provoking language. If you want to have a sincere debate with points being made and discuss you have to be serious and sincere.

Alliance
I would agree with that.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator
Try to show more patience and use less provoking language. If you want to have a sincere debate with points being made and discuss you have to be serious and sincere.

I like that

I'll try to stick to the same ideal (not to say I won't try to defend by beliefs form belligerents)

peejayd
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
What about when I was Christian ? For 18 years of my life ?

What about when I prayed to him every morning and night ? Praised him every day for everything I loved....

I never heard God before, even then......why is that ?

* maybe you never heard because you never listened...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Oh, GOD....here's some more JIA bullshit roll eyes (sarcastic)

If my will was truly that of Satan's, I'd probly be destroying cities, killing babies, and drowning people....oh wait, that's GODS WILL ! eek!

* just because i posted the Bible verse after your post, means it's you i'm referring to... sigh, you're so defensive... it would be more offensive in my part if i started on John 8:44 ("You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires..."wink but i have given a premise on John 8:47 ("He who is of God hears the words of God; the reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God."wink... those people who don't hear the words of God, as Jesus said, are not of God and are children of Satan...

* whoa, whoa, whoa... wait! you are offended if someone told you that you are a child of Satan? then why did you started a thread about Satan here? a thread for exalting Satan? giving Satan credit?geez! even Satan would be disgraced by your hypocrisy...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Oh, u mean the way GOD murdered the first born sons of Egypt, everyone in Sodom and Gomorrha, and 99.99999% of the human and animal populace during the Great Flood ?

* you defend the sins of men against the judgment of God? wow...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Oh I agree ...that's because Satan doesn't EXIST !

* so don't be offended if you are a child of someone who does not exist...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Do you have proof to validate your Biblical argument ? Or are you just another zealot here to annoy me ?

* well, i posted the Bible verse to answer the thread topic... it was not addressed to you, i apologize for that misunderstanding... it so happened that your post was the last when i posted...

* my argument about the topic is that those people in John 8:47 (those who do not hear the words of God) are the children of Satan...

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
as for peejayed as a zealot I don't think he is so much most of the time he posts more than a quote

* uhmm... thanks?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
HE just said I was a child of Satan.....that's very zealous, and a very dangerous mentality to have.

* i never did... it was a Bible verse...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why do you believe in the bible?

* the same as you believe Buddha and his doctrines... we've been through this before, my friend... wink

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by peejayd

* the same as you believe Buddha and his doctrines... we've been through this before, my friend... wink

It is not for the same reason...

peejayd
* you believe in Buddha and his doctrines... i believe in Jesus and His doctrines... wink

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by peejayd
* you believe in Buddha and his doctrines... i believe in Jesus and His doctrines... wink

...but not for the same reasons.

supdude
Originally posted by Nellinator
Try to show more patience and use less provoking language. If you want to have a sincere debate with points being made and discuss you have to be serious and sincere.

thumb up

your right. its hard my friend..but i am trying..you do have to admit the last line was kind funny..though.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by peejayd
* uhmm... thanks?


Urizen is quick to judge I was tying to point out that, that was the first time I'd seen you post only a quote. Such an action is the exception not the rule for you (based on my observations).

Thundar
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Urizen is quick to judge I was tying to point out that, that was the first time I'd seen you post only a quote. Such an action is the exception not the rule for you (based on my observations).

Not to take away from the subject, but I just wanted to point out that from a biblical perspective - being quick to discern or "judge" an individuals intentions is not a fault. It is a gift from God, and it is called spiritual discernment. When a Christian uses their spiritual discernment to condemn others, that's when the their judgement becomes sinful.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Thundar
Not to take away from the subject, but I just wanted to point out that from a biblical perspective - being quick to discern or "judge" an individuals intentions is not a fault. It is a gift from God, and it is called spiritual discernment. When a Christian uses their spiritual discernment to condemn others, that's when the their judgement becomes sinful.

Tell that to all the people that the church has murdered in the last 2000 years.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Tell that to all the people that the church has murdered in the last 2000 years.
Owned.

peejayd
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Tell that to all the people that the church has murdered in the last 2000 years.

* ahem... tell that to all the people that the CATHOLIC church has murdered in the last 2000 years... wink

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by peejayd
* ahem... tell that to all the people that the CATHOLIC church has murdered in the last 2000 years... wink


The Salem Witch Trials and near-genocide of the Native Americans is the fault of the Protestants, not the Catholics...nice try thumb down

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by peejayd
* maybe you never heard because you never listened...



My ears and heart were ALWAYS open. I never recieved an answer.







Originally posted by peejayd
* * just because i posted the Bible verse after your post, means it's you i'm referring to... sigh, you're so defensive... it would be more offensive in my part if i started on John 8:44 ("You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires..."wink but i have given a premise on John 8:47 ("He who is of God hears the words of God; the reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God."wink... those people who don't hear the words of God, as Jesus said, are not of God and are children of Satan...




According to your myth.....







Originally posted by peejayd
* * whoa, whoa, whoa... wait! you are offended if someone told you that you are a child of Satan? then why did you started a thread about Satan here? a thread for exalting Satan? giving Satan credit?geez! even Satan would be disgraced by your hypocrisy...



I am not offended, but I find it offensive. If I told you that you were going to burn In Hell for all eternity, and that you are a child of this evil creature, you'd find that offensive too. wink


The Satan thread is a thread in discussion about Satan. I cannot truly exalt a being who I don't beleive in.






Originally posted by peejayd
* * you defend the sins of men against the judgment of God? wow...



The word "sin" means nothing to me.


Your God has done the same sins according to the Old Testament: Mass Murder, Genocide, and baby killing....Hitler would be PROUD !






Originally posted by peejayd
* * so don't be offended if you are a child of someone who does not exist...



I'm not. But I take it as an insult. I know what Satan is, I know what he is meant to represent. Labelling me a child of this abominable creature, when you know nothing about me, is a horrible insult.

That should be grounds for being reported.....




Originally posted by peejayd
* * well, i posted the Bible verse to answer the thread topic... it was not addressed to you, i apologize for that misunderstanding... it so happened that your post was the last when i posted...


I don't care if you post Bible quotes, it seems to be the only thing you're good at, however.





Originally posted by peejayd
* * my argument about the topic is that those people in John 8:47 (those who do not hear the words of God) are the children of Satan...



According to your myth....

But regardless its highly offensive, and truly condescending.

It makes you, and all other Christians, look like self-righteous judgemental delusional know-it-alls...I can't wait til America fkn grows up !




Originally posted by peejayd
* * the same as you believe Buddha and his doctrines... we've been through this before, my friend... wink



He doesn't worship buddha no

finti
yeah the offspring is called organised religion

peejayd
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The Salem Witch Trials and near-genocide of the Native Americans is the fault of the Protestants, not the Catholics...nice try thumb down

* what Protestants in particular? all non-Catholic denominations are called "protestants"...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
My ears and heart were ALWAYS open. I never recieved an answer.

* maybe there's a problem with your belief...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
According to your myth.....

* and you are not hearing the words of God right now... no wonder...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I am not offended, but I find it offensive. If I told you that you were going to burn In Hell for all eternity, and that you are a child of this evil creature, you'd find that offensive too. wink

* if you are not offended, it is not offensive...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The Satan thread is a thread in discussion about Satan. I cannot truly exalt a being who I don't beleive in.

* your initial post in that thread is this:

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I noticed that the majority of topics in the religion forum center around Christianity and its God. God gets either praised or bashed, and Jesus gets either idolized or made fun of.

Well what about SATAN ?

Why are thier SO FEW THREADS dedicated to him ?

This is the OFFICIAL SATAN THREAD !

Please feel free to worship, praise, bless, insult, curse, or critisize SATAN in any way you choose !

I think there needs to be a BALANCE. We have lots of Christians promoting God's word....we have lots of Athiests and Agnostics ignoring God's word, but we dont have ANYBODY speaking on behalf of the good ol' devil.

Hey...even demons deserve thier shine !


SO !!!! ALL YOU DIRTY LITTLE SINNERS !

ON YOUR KNEES ! droolio

BEND OVER !!! droolio

AND PRAY TO YOUR NEW LORD AND MASTER SATAN !

SO SPEAKS THE ANTI CHRIST !!!!

laughing *I cant WAIT til JIA reads this !

* nice try, mr.urizen...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The word "sin" means nothing to me.

* that's the problem with your belief... that's why you're not hearing anything...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Your God has done the same sins according to the Old Testament: Mass Murder, Genocide, and baby killing....Hitler would be PROUD !

* my God is Almighty and promised an eternal life... your argument is owned utterly...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I'm not. But I take it as an insult. I know what Satan is, I know what he is meant to represent. Labelling me a child of this abominable creature, when you know nothing about me, is a horrible insult.

That should be grounds for being reported.....

* you are not offended but you take it as an insult? please compose yourself...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I don't care if you post Bible quotes, it seems to be the only thing you're good at, however.

* and you're the good guy who does not insult or offend others? look in the mirror, mr.urizen...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
According to your myth....

But regardless its highly offensive, and truly condescending.

It makes you, and all other Christians, look like self-righteous judgemental delusional know-it-alls...I can't wait til America fkn grows up !

* as you've just said: "that should be grounds for being reported"... eat your words, mr.good guy...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
He doesn't worship buddha no

* other Buddhists do... wink

Jadyn
Lets say that I become a father. I lay down certain rules in my house for my children to follow, such as a 9:00PM bedtime. Now, does that mean that I should constrain myself to going to bed by 9:00 every night? I tell my children not hit people, but does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to spank them for disobeying?

God makes the rules, he doesn't always have to follow them.

I know you're probably gonna kill me for saying this, but at the heart of Christian belief, and one of the most dangerous Christian doctrines(honestly, the ways this could be twisted scare even me), is not that God is good, but that good is God. God, by definition, defines what good is. So then, God makes the rules, but is not constrained by them.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Jadyn
Lets say that I become a father. I lay down certain rules in my house for my children to follow, such as a 9:00PM bedtime. Now, does that mean that I should constrain myself to going to bed by 9:00 every night? I tell my children not hit people, but does that mean I shouldn't be allowed to spank them for disobeying?


Should you be allowed to kill them for breaking some random rule you created?

Originally posted by Jadyn

God makes the rules, he doesn't always have to follow them.


What a jerk

Originally posted by Jadyn

I know you're probably gonna kill me for saying this, but at the heart of Christian belief, and one of the most dangerous Christian doctrines(honestly, the ways this could be twisted scare even me), is not that God is good, but that good is God. God, by definition, defines what good is. So then, God makes the rules, but is not constrained by them.

I've never heard that.

So God can do what ever the fuk he wants and still be good? (thats just stupid)

Jadyn
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Should you be allowed to kill them for breaking some random rule you created?

Well, if the punishment fits the crime... If someone murders does he not receive the death penalty? (And don't give me bull about "life imprisonment" or somesuch. It amounts to the same thing.)


As that isn't actually anything other than an opinion, I'll ignore it and keep moving.


Well, he is..God...by definition, above all things. Therefore, "good" and "evil" only exist so much as he made them. Otherwise, God would not be God.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Jadyn

Well, if the punishment fits the crime... If someone murders does he not receive the death penalty? (And don't give me bull about "life imprisonment" or somesuch. It amounts to the same thing.)


What if the kid was oh . . . lets say gay. Does count as a death worthy offense?

Originally posted by Jadyn

Well, he is..God...by definition, above all things. Therefore, "good" and "evil" only exist so much as he made them. Otherwise, God would not be God.

Like a said "what a jerk" (yes I know its an opinion but I think it fits)

In your analogy above forbiding your kid from killing people doesn't give you the athority to kill people if you want to.

Jadyn
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What if the kid was oh . . . lets say gay. Does count as a death worthy offense?
Homosexuality, then, was seen as a direct, deliberate rebellion against God. "For the wages of sin is death..."--Romans 6:23(NIV). So, in that context, yes, it would be. Now, we have a slightly different view of morality as a whole. Honestly, all I can say is that homosexuality, in my personal belief, is wrong. This doesn't mean I think we should kill all the gays or anything like that, I just think it is wrong.




1. Every analogy breaks down at some point. 2. I'm not God. I didn't make the people. Romans 9:19-21(NIV)
19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' " 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Jadyn

Romans 9:19-21(NIV)
19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' " 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

And if the potter (God) makes a really crappy piece of pottery (people who disagree with him) its his fault.

Jadyn
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
And if the potter (God) makes a really crappy piece of pottery (people who disagree with him) its his fault.

So Free Will plays no part in responsibility?

Well, then, I guess government in general serves no purpose.

Symmetric Chaos
Governments don't create criminals and then judge them. They find criminals and then judge them.

God is omnipotent and could make everybody perfect. Because God has not done this it can be assumed we have free will. Therefore God wants us to make choices.

What kind of sick bastard creates a game with ridiculous rules and then starts killing people?

Nellinator
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Governments don't create criminals and then judge them. They find criminals and then judge them.

God is omnipotent and could make everybody perfect. Because God has not done this it can be assumed we have free will. Therefore God wants us to make choices.

What kind of sick bastard creates a game with ridiculous rules and then starts killing people?
The game can be quite easily beaten. It's even free. Jesus beat the game, maybe you should do what he did.

Jadyn
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Governments don't create criminals and then judge them. They find criminals and then judge them.

God is omnipotent and could make everybody perfect. Because God has not done this it can be assumed we have free will. Therefore God wants us to make choices.

What kind of sick bastard creates a game with ridiculous rules and then starts killing people?

Define "ridiculous rules." Most of the Old Testament Laws were simply practical. Not all of them carried the death penalty. Most of them were equal or lesser in punishment to other laws and punishments of their day.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by peejayd
* ahem... tell that to all the people that the CATHOLIC church has murdered in the last 2000 years... wink

Can you tear your arm from your body?

Thundar
Originally posted by Jadyn
Most of the Old Testament Laws were simply practical. Not all of them carried the death penalty. Most of them were equal or lesser in punishment to other laws and punishments of their day.


Exactly. I can't understand why individuals today don't understand their practicality. Obviously the whole Mosaic Law regarding the uncleansliness of certain animals, had much to do with health concerns on God's part.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Thundar
Exactly. I can't understand why individuals today don't understand their practicality. Obviously the whole Mosaic Law regarding the uncleansliness of certain animals, had much to do with health concerns on God's part.

yes avoiding mixed fibers and animals with the wrong type of hooves were really sensible precautions to take

debbiejo
Originally posted by finti
yeah the offspring is called organised religion Yeah, it is evil isn't it?? pirate

Thundar
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
yes avoiding mixed fibers and animals with the wrong type of hooves were really sensible precautions to take


Actually yes it is. Some types of animals with cloven hooves, specifically pigs..carry all types of diseases. The same rationale can be applied to some types of scavenger birds. So this was a very sensible move on God's part. Obviously this law was abolished, due to God allowing man to come up with a ways to rid these animals of their impurities.

Obviously there are still things man is not meant to eat. Some of these things shouldn't be eaten because the body has trouble digesting them(rocks, certain plants, etc), while others shouldn't be eaten because it is obviously ungodly and perverse to do so(human defication, human body parts, etc).

peejayd
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Can you tear your arm from your body?

* yes, if it's a fake arm... wink

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Thundar
Actually yes it is. Some types of animals with cloven hooves, specifically pigs..carry all types of diseases. The same rationale can be applied to some types of scavenger birds. So this was a very sensible move on God's part. Obviously this law was abolished, due to God allowing man to come up with a ways to rid these animals of their impurities.

The hooves don't make then unhealthy its a really odd way to lump together unhealthy animals

Besides why not say these animals shouldn't be eaten because they can have diseases

Originally posted by Thundar

Obviously there are still things man is not meant to eat. Some of these things shouldn't be eaten because the body has trouble digesting them(rocks, certain plants, etc), while others shouldn't be eaten because it is obviously ungodly and perverse to do so(human defication, human body parts, etc).

Well . . . yeah. Does God really have to tell you not to eat those things? (I restrain myself without such explicit orders)

King Kandy
Well, disease wasn't fully understood at the time of writing, if all animals with a certain kind of hoof were killing people upon consumption, then you'd take their most noticable trait, the hooves, and say "Don't eat those"

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by King Kandy
Well, disease wasn't fully understood at the time of writing, if all animals with a certain kind of hoof were killing people upon consumption, then you'd take their most noticable trait, the hooves, and say "Don't eat those"

That makes sense but then its logical not divine reasoning.

Thundar
It also could have been due to some of the pagan tribes eating cloven hooved animals. Perhaps God wanted to distinguish the Israelites from the other peoples of that time period. The bible really doesn't go into any explicit details as to why. But a general consensus among many is that the old laws were put in place for practical reasons. Still, only God knows the exact reasons as to why.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by peejayd
* yes, if it's a fake arm... wink

The Catholic church looks no more fake or real then any other Christian church.

Jadyn
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That makes sense but then its logical not divine reasoning.

Most pre-modern philosophers)Meaning, people like Descartes, Hume, Locke, Kant, Hegel, and Kierkegaard, the guys who shaped the way we think.) would say that logic and reasoning spring out of the Divine.

peejayd
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The Catholic church looks no more fake or real then any other Christian church.

* nope... i believe, the basis in Christianity is the Bible... wink

debbiejo
Originally posted by peejayd
* nope... i believe, the basis in Christianity is the Bible... wink Beads, chants, Mithra, baptisms, one god with a virgin mom.....Save you from the world???

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by peejayd
* nope... i believe, the basis in Christianity is the Bible... wink

And so do the Catholics. Your religion came from the Catholic church.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Beads, chants, Mithra, baptisms, one god with a virgin mom.....Save you from the world???

The beads are from Buddhism.

debbiejo
Yep they all did and before......

peejayd
Originally posted by debbiejo
Beads, chants,

* particularly the rosary, right? Catholics do... and it's against the Bible...

"And in praying use not vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking."
Matthew 6:7

Originally posted by debbiejo
Mithra,

* there are similarities but Mithraism and Christianity are not one...

Originally posted by debbiejo
baptisms,

* baptism is a commandment from God and Christ...

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
Matthew 28:19-20

Originally posted by debbiejo
one god with a virgin mom.....Save you from the world???

* Mary was a virgin when she delivered Jesus in flesh... but afterwards, she was not, because Jesus had several siblings after Him from Joseph and Mary...

"Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended in him."
Mark 6:3

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
And so do the Catholics. Your religion came from the Catholic church.

* wrong, my friend... give one doctrine of Catholicism that is according to the Bible... wink

Nellinator
Originally posted by peejayd
* baptism is a commandment from God and Christ...

"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
Matthew 28:19-20

* Mary was a virgin when she delivered Jesus in flesh... but afterwards, she was not, because Jesus had several siblings after Him from Joseph and Mary...

"Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended in him."
Mark 6:3
I think we can go deeper than this. Baptism is in fact a Jewish custom dating back over 3000 years and therefore predating what some 'critics' (who apparently are stupid) claim baptism was derived from. Baptism was used when a foreigner bound himself to the Law of Moses. They were immersed in water and then brought under the grace of the Jewish people as according to the Law.
The prophecy of the virgin birth predates the birth and religion of Mithra and is quite original.

debbiejo
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Can you tear your arm from your body? Reminds me of a joke I heard...

The joke goes that a guy wakes up the next morning with his arm under an ugly woman. He would rather chew his arm off than risk waking her up. laughing out loud

I know, I'm bad, bye

embarrasment

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.