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Iron Man # 14: During a secret meeting with Captain America Ironman gets jumped by a couple of anti-reg guys including Spiderman, Luke Cage, and some other girl. After tossing Luke Cage into the outfield wall, Ironman gets into it with Spidey and evades a punch and web throws from him, then throws off his spider sense and punches him in the head. Ironman tells Peter that he was able to study his physiology and developed a way to tamper with or completely shut off Peter's Spider sense, as well as create a rapid response defense warning system of his own.

Discuss whether you think this is a temporary addition to Ironman's arsenal and what implications it entails in regards to Irommans power level.

Questions:

1. Do you think writers will start writing IM with a spider sense now, or is it just one of those powers that a character has for one issue then mysteriously disappears?

2. How will having a warning/spider sense affect IM reaction time?

3. Does this upgrade make Ironman much more "invincible", or is it really not that big of a deal?

It'll probably last a few issues.

It seems stupid though, how can it be a pheromone response? how can pheromones let you know if you're going to set off a bomb or let you know where not to step to avoid CCTV cameras?

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3170/scan0019ib1.th.jpg http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/848/scan0020mt4.th.jpg http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/4967/scan0021tk6.th.jpg

Originally posted by Scoobless
It'll probably last a few issues.

It seems stupid though, how can it be a pheromone response? how can pheromones let you know if you're going to set off a bomb or let you know where not to step to avoid CCTV cameras?

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3170/scan0019ib1.th.jpg http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/848/scan0020mt4.th.jpg http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/4967/scan0021tk6.th.jpg

Im not going to pretend i know anything about male pheromones and how they affect the human physiology in order to attain a freakin defense warning system. However, i do remember seeing an episode on the discovery channel where it talked about how spider's can evade danger using their pheromones as a sort of repellent that keeps predators away, which has nothing to do with a "spider sense" per say, but it is related.

Note: I could be completely off base.

Sounds like bullsh*t writing to me.

With any luck, it'll be forgotten in a few issues.

Originally posted by H. S. 6
Sounds like bullsh*t writing to me.

With any luck, it'll be forgotten in a few issues. co-signed

Originally posted by Scoobless
It'll probably last a few issues.

It seems stupid though, how can it be a pheromone response? how can pheromones let you know if you're going to set off a bomb or let you know where not to step to avoid CCTV cameras?

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/3170/scan0019ib1.th.jpg http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/848/scan0020mt4.th.jpg http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/4967/scan0021tk6.th.jpg

Its has been hinted on various occasions that instincts may have meta physical properties, i.e. they are a very basic form of telepathy/pre- cognition (the ability to predict the future). We know that are instincts are effected by the brains chemistry, and we also know that pheromones can effect the brains chemistry. Therefore pheromones could indirectly effect some basic form of telepathic precognition, that all humans have.

I'm sure it'll be sweep under the rug in the near future, tech-based precognition is IMO insanely powerful and Iron Man having that definitely raises his bar BIG time.

Originally posted by Innerhype
I'm sure it'll be sweep under the rug in the near future, tech-based precognition is IMO insanely powerful and Iron Man having that definitely raises his bar BIG time.

A 'basic' quantum computer could easilly create a form of precognition, but the writer didn't choose to use this

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
A 'basic' quantum computer could easilly create a form of precognition, but the writer didn't choose to use this

Iron Man really always had that and he's actually been shown using it, mostly recently when IM was trashing Captain America in Civil War. The armor recorded Cap's moves and there was nothing Cap could do because the armor knew what Cap would do before he did it.

Again in Contest of Champions 2 when Iron Man was dodging Psylocke because the armor knew the moves of a master kung-fu artist.

And again when the armor was sentient, it was scanning Whiplash's muscle movements against old combat data to evade and walk all over Whiplash unscathed.

But I think the big difference is that a pre-cognitive sense can come to Tony with out kind of calculations or scientific analysis, I'm sure there has been times where the data for these calculations just aren't available either and that is where this "spider-sense" could really shine.

I think it's an awful plot device and there's really no surprise it was in a Iron-man comic

Originally posted by H. S. 6
Sounds like bullsh*t writing to me.

With any luck, it'll be forgotten in a few issues.

I hope so.

1) Iron-man is powerful enough as it is. The extremis upgrade was cool and he is getting enough limelight from civil war but this upgrade is a bad plot device. Tony doesn't need this.
2) The spider-sense is pheromone based? Does that mean spidey has to smell a laser for him to dodge it? I think not.

Originally posted by Innerhype
Iron Man really always had that and he's actually been shown using it, mostly recently when IM was trashing Captain America in Civil War. The armor recorded Cap's moves and there was nothing Cap could do because the armor knew what Cap would do before he did it.

Yes thats not really quantum computing. A better example would be Midknighter from the Authority.


Originally posted by Innerhype
But I think the big difference is that a pre-cognitive sense can come to Tony with out kind of calculations or scientific analysis, I'm sure there has been times where the data for these calculations just aren't available either and that is where this "spider-sense" could really shine.

A half decent Quantum computer can predict all particle movements to an near infinite degree. Its complicated but it uses the notion of the many worlds theorem presented by Quantum mechanics.

Actually, I think it has more to do with the pheremones Spider-Man gives off more than anything, and the Spidey-sense gives him a 360 degree sense of vision as well.

To be honest, I think that more or less it lasts a few issues, but if it carries on, it may have more of a technological base to it.

Giving Tony precog does make him much more formidable though. It's crazy.

Originally posted by willRules

2) The spider-sense is pheromone based? Does that mean spidey has to smell a laser for him to dodge it? I think not.

Well then u come up with a decent explanation for 'biological precognition' !

I thought that was really cool. And a great intelligence feat for IM. It makes sense that he studied the brain reactions of Pete whenever he did the spider-sense, and found a way to artifically create the response. It also makes sense that the spider-sense operates on certain ferquencies and IM can tamper with them.

Ironman for President. Pro-Reg Baby

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard


Giving Tony precog does make him much more formidable though. It's crazy.

With Caps and other opponents fighting skills programmed in to be imitated (Like the Taskmaster), Immense reactions speed, Pre Cognition and a healing factor, Tony has virtually become the Invincible Iron man.

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Well then u come up with a decent explanation for 'biological precognition' !


Hey I'm not saying Iron-man couldn't come up with it, I just think that Iron-man doesn't need that to beat spidey, it just seemed a bit like a lame plot device to me

"how can pheromones let you know if you're going to set off a bomb or let you know where not to step to avoid CCTV cameras?"

"Its has been hinted on various occasions that instincts may have meta physical properties, i.e. they are a very basic form of telepathy/pre- cognition (the ability to predict the future)."

"The armor recorded Cap's moves and there was nothing Cap could do because the armor knew what Cap would do before he did it."

First of all, AFAIK, spiders seem to have a precog sense simply because they see so damn well. Hell, some species have eight eyes and excellent vision; nothing escapes their notice.

As for Spiderman's "precog": I don't know what that could be based on, other than Stan Lee initially not knowing anything about spider vision. Phermones? Too slow and imprecise. Maybe an awareness of electrical fields? Or maybe even an awareness of quantum wavefunctions (but then, I think all superpowers can be explained via quantum wavefunctions ).

Secondly: shouldn't certain uberpowerful beings be able to do what Tony's armor can do? I mean, with all the super-duper, hocus-pocus Superman, Thor, the Surfer and others can do, why not this? Heck, what about someone like Galactus? Shouldn't he have armor which constantly surveys, warns and preps?

Originally posted by Mindship


Secondly: shouldn't certain uberpowerful beings be able to do what Tony's armor can do? I mean, with all the super-duper, hocus-pocus Superman, Thor, the Surfer and others can do, why not this? Heck, what about someone like Galactus? Shouldn't he have armor which constantly surveys, warns and preps?

Why would he need it, doesn't he already have Cosmic/Quantum Awareness ?

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Why would he need it, doesn't he already have Cosmic/Quantum Awareness ?

Yes, but it rarely (if ever?) functions like a proximal warning sense or computational predictor.

I know there have been periods, though, where Superman has had supermemory and superintelligence, but they don't seem to last.

Originally posted by Mindship
Yes, but it rarely (if ever?) functions like a proximal warning sense or computational predictor.

I know there have been periods, though, where Superman has had supermemory and superintelligence, but they don't seem to last.

Brusiek is currently re introducing the concept of 'Super Intelligence'. It would make sense for his brain to act almost like an immense Super computer. Mind you i don't think superman requires a 'Super Spidey sense'. Millar has hinted that Ultimate Thor almost has a some version of precognition, seen when he hits Quicksilver with a lightning bolt in Gods and monsters.

Originally posted by Mindship


First of all, AFAIK, spiders seem to have a precog sense simply because they see so damn well. Hell, some species have eight eyes and excellent vision; nothing escapes
Secondly: shouldn't certain uberpowerful beings be able to do what Tony's armor can do? I mean, with all the super-duper, hocus-pocus Superman, Thor, the Surfer and others can do, why not this? Heck, what about someone like Galactus? Shouldn't he have armor which constantly surveys, warns and preps?

well cosmic/mystic awareness sums it up nicley cuz guys like surfer and Strange they always like to spout off about how they sense something of cosmic importnace... and genis during battles usually get the drop on ppl with his cosmic awareness.......and as for superman his kyrptonian physiology grants him heightened senses to an nth degree under a yellow sun, the only reason it doesnt drive him insane is becuase he knows how to tune them out...

look at daredevil he uses a combination of all his senses, to interpret, temperture, sound waves ,vibrations, smell, and tasting pheromones in the air which he collates all that once to come up with a fairly sophisticated radar and sonar system...which translates to his own early warning spidey sense. in fact, ive seen DD recreate a crime scene just by going off scent alone, and the artist even showed blurred after images of what went down to illustrate to the reader as DD was narrating to himself... so i imagine super man should be able to do all that to a more ridiclous extent..

Originally posted by manjaro
already covered.....cosmic awarness.......and kyrptonian physiology granting him heightened senses to an nth degree under a yellow sun

Maybe Superman One million, but not regular Supes ! Although he should have with his immense senses. Something like a 'Super reflex', power.

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Well then u come up with a decent explanation for 'biological precognition' !

A wizard did it............ or, in this case, a magical spider.

Originally posted by Prof S.T.I.
Its has been hinted on various occasions that instincts may have meta physical properties, i.e. they are a very basic form of telepathy/pre- cognition (the ability to predict the future). We know that are instincts are effected by the brains chemistry, and we also know that pheromones can effect the brains chemistry. Therefore pheromones could indirectly effect some basic form of telepathic precognition, that all humans have.

Co-signed.

The only question is, how can Stark replicate this pheromone based defense system into his armor in order to use it in the same manner than Peter or any spider for that matter does? He says something about "isolating it's frequency and creeating a neural net that replicates the system", but that's hardly an explanation for exactly how it works.

Originally posted by Scoobless

It seems stupid though, how can it be a pheromone response? how can pheromones let you know if you're going to set off a bomb or let you know where not to step to avoid CCTV cameras?


Pheromones ?

What dumbass thought that up ? Parkers Spider-Sense has ALWAYS been a mild form of pre-cog, hell Kaine (Spideys clone) has got a stronger version of Spideys powers and his version of spider-sense IS pre cognition.

Bullshit writing from bullshit writers

Originally posted by grey fox
Pheromones ?

What dumbass thought that up ? Parkers Spider-Sense has ALWAYS been a mild form of pre-cog, hell Kaine (Spideys clone) has got a stronger version of Spideys powers and his version of spider-sense IS pre cognition.

Bullshit writing from bullshit writers

I think youre clever !

Originally posted by grey fox
Pheromones ?

What dumbass thought that up ? Parkers Spider-Sense has ALWAYS been a mild form of pre-cog, hell Kaine (Spideys clone) has got a stronger version of Spideys powers and his version of spider-sense IS pre cognition.

Bullshit writing from bullshit writers


THANK YOU!

I don't think he needs the Iron-sense. He should've been able to take those guys without it anyway.

Ironman Spider Sense hmm

okay next time he has telepathy because he studied Prof X Brainwaves
and knows the frequency....

later he can teleport by checking up Nightcrawlers "pheromons"

yeah everything is okay....

to be serious, that part was not neccesary. Tony can beat Spidey with his normal powers, writers dont have to give him extra powers which are ridicilious explained.

Originally posted by Arahan
Ironman Spider Sense hmm

okay next time he has telepathy because he studied Prof X Brainwaves
and knows the frequency....

later he can teleport by checking up Nightcrawlers "pheromons"

yeah everything is okay....

to be serious, that part was not neccesary. Tony can beat Spidey with his normal powers, writers dont have to give him extra powers which are ridicilious explained.

No not exactly. I think the whole idea behind him studying his physiology was that he had Peter in the suit for several weeks, and was gaging all his actions while getting readings on his biological and physiological structures. maybe if he got professor X or Nightcrawler to where one of his suits with a bunch of sensors and monitors then maybe he could do that, otherwise it's probably not possible.

To be perfectly honest I kind of like the idea that Tony found a way to enhance himself with a Spider sense and be able to shut off Peters as well. However, I would like a better explanation in regards to how he was able to make it work on himself.

Originally posted by Arahan
Ironman Spider Sense hmm

okay next time he has telepathy because he studied Prof X Brainwaves
and knows the frequency....

later he can teleport by checking up Nightcrawlers "pheromons"

yeah everything is okay....

to be serious, that part was not neccesary. Tony can beat Spidey with his normal powers, writers dont have to give him extra powers which are ridicilious explained.

That was so bad it gave me AIDs.

I always assumed the spider sense was just a limited psionic ability.

You have to remember that a spider sense brings it's own weaknesses.... how many times has Pete been incapacitated by something messing with the frequency (or whatever) that he receives on? remember when he first met his clone? when they got close together their spider senses interfered with each other and they both crumbled under the pain of it..... Goblin gas can knock out the SS, spider tracers have also been used to cause immense pain to Spider-Man before.

If Stark tries to keep it, Pete could wreck him.

Originally posted by Scoobless
You have to remember that a spider sense brings it's own weaknesses.... how many times has Pete been incapacitated by something messing with the frequency (or whatever) that he receives on? remember when he first met his clone? when they got close together their spider senses interfered with each other and they both crumbled under the pain of it..... Goblin gas can knock out the SS, spider tracers have also been used to cause immense pain to Spider-Man before.

If Stark tries to keep it, Pete could wreck him.


That could go either way really, but Tony could turn his off if he wanted to.

It's still a good tactic to distract/confuse him mid battle.

Iron Man's my favorite comic character and all, but come on already.

The writers are just making him TOO powerful. The extremis upgrade took some getting used to, but a technologically derived "spider-sense"?

Tony doesn't need that to beat Spidey (even before the extremis upgrade).