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on the left:

Savage Hulk
Thor
Thing
Immortal Hercules
Wonderman
Namor
Sasquatch
Team Captain: Captain America

versus:

Classic Juggernaut
Abomination
Wendigo
Rhino
Gladiator
Mangog
Ulik
Team Captain: Baron Zemo II

Referees: Pretcon Beyonder and the Watcher

7 against 7 ... no interference from outside.. with a rope made of adamantium

who wins ?

team 2, get juggernaut started in one direction along with gladiator having full confidence and they couldnt be stopped not to mention mangog and wendigo...colossus would have been a better choice than ulik though

Team 1 simply because team 2 have rhino

Team 1

Give Hulk a few hard slaps on the ass to piss him off and its their game.

so unstoppable Juggernaut MIGHT be ....

so incalculabe a pissed of Hulk is.... right....

let the Juggernaut say to Hulk "hey.. greenie... if i will win... your honey Jarella... will be MINE... "...

hell of.... Hulk would thrown Juggernaut with an awesome pull of the rope into the sun... which such an impact... that Juggernaut would pulverized....

Jugs gets the rope and starts to walk oneway, he pulls everyone

no way.... that Jugs can "simply" walk in one direction..... no way...

an full enraged Hulk HAS the power... to easily knock down Juggernaut in such a match...

and give him Immortal Hercules (who alone.. also would have the power).. Thor.... who can stood toe to toe with an enraged Hulk (without Mjolnir)... and the others..

it would be a hell of a fight.....

i cannot give here a team the advantage

Originally posted by Betageuze
on the left:

Savage Hulk
Thor
Thing
Immortal Hercules
Wonderman
Namor
Sasquatch
Team Captain: Captain America

versus:

Classic Juggernaut
Abomination
Wendigo
Rhino
Gladiator
Mangog
Ulik
Team Captain: Baron Zemo II

Referees: Pretcon Beyonder and the Watcher

7 against 7 ... no interference from outside.. with a rope made of adamantium

who wins ?

team one in a stomp
hulk/thor too much

Juggernaut starts moving and pulls team 1 against their will.

Captain America, sensing desperation, resorts to uncaplike tactic. He tells Hulk that he's been having an affair with Betty and that Betty made fun of Hulk behind his back.

Hulk gets enraged beyond belief, and pulls with EXPLOSIVE strength, a power so great it negates Jugg's irresistable force and everyone on Team 2 falls on their butts as Team 1 wins.

Hulk then proceeds to snap Cap's neck like a twig and pounds on him until only Cap's costume and a vague outline of his body remains on the ground.

hulk no matter how pissed he gets aint stoppin juggs from moving one way, its a force of nature

Originally posted by King KAM
hulk no matter how pissed he gets aint stoppin juggs from moving one way, its a force of nature

he did already
believe augmentation by apoc

hulk #172 *****slapped him, knocking that silly helmet off
seemed odd, getting strength from the bands needed a hat

juggernaut wins. nothing is stopping him...and they have mangog? team 2 wins easily.

You realize that Mangog is above every single one of either team, rigth?

OLYMPIAN...... you cannot say.. globally.. that Mangog is above of each single member of the other team........ IF.. .you have a member in the other team.. who has LIMITLESS physically abilities.......
right?

what you say is.... absurd.....

Hulk... IS .. if times goes by.... the physically most impressive here...
Immortal Herc.. very very close behind Hulk
Thor.... nothing to say about his abilities
Wonderman... has beaten Thor
Namor.. has beaten the Hulk (in water)

Juggernaut... has outsmarted by Spiderman, and isnt in the powerlevel like Immortal Hercules or Hulk
Mangog.. beaten down by Thor
Gladiator... beaten down by Thor or Hulk
Abomination ... nemesis of Hulk.. BUT.. most of his matches.... lost against Hulk (and Wonderman for example too..)

TEAM NUMBER ONE... for the WIN...

From the way you type about it, it seems you never read Mangog appearances.

Mangog, especially the silver age one, is far above any of those. He doesnt belong here.

He was defeated by Thor *once* and it took a Godblast in his throat to do it. The rest of the times who do you think took care of him? And that btw its the lowest showing of Mangog.

Wonder Man has only knocked Thor out once and i dont think its in continuity anymore. And even if it is the majority of showings support him as below the Thor bracet.

And classic Juggernaut *is* in the powerclass of Hulk and Hercules. And definatly more durable than either. Unless your talking about the current chap.

i know Mangog.....

perhaps .. here he is the third mightiest guy here (behind Thor and Hulk).... BUT... NOT .. in this kind of matches...

in this kind of match...

HULK
HERCULES
THOR
THING
WONDERMAN

and
JUGGERNAUT
GLADIATOR
ULIK

ARE the behemoths.... to BEAT.... and therefore.. its a 5 against 3...

of course... Juggy and Glady will not easy to beat by the opponents...

but a pissed of Hulk...
Immortal Hercules... hell of.
Thor... who NEVER want to loose
and Thing..... dont underestimate in this kind of a match

with Wonderman and Sasquatch.... TEAM 1 will survive... i believe..

Team#2 has Gladiator,Classic Juggernaut and Mangog?That's bad news for team#1

Juggy poses the problem for team one. If team one can negate that, they can take it is my guess. But, how does Juggy not move, even if it's an inch a year?

Juggernaut has been moved before.......

Originally posted by Betageuze
Juggernaut has been moved before.......

Physically? Because no one can touch him here. He just grabs a rope and turns in the opposite direction. Last I checked, a tug of war didn't entail picking one of the opposition and moving him.

team two easy the only times juggernaut is ever stopped were when he was depowered and when celestial technology helped the opposition.

The only way team 1 is in the match is if the adamantium rope breaks.

Team 2 ftw.

now... you will become absurd..

a short powerful pull of the rope... from Hulk or Hercules.... and Juggy WILL be moved...

he will be moved.. in a way... he sure would not like...

so .. please.... once and for all.... please forget this UNSTOPPABLE.. UNMOVEABLE.. "shit" .. from Juggy...

he is a very powerful.. impressive force... BUT.. he IS NOT... WASNT EVER... the unstoppable force... you wish to see in him..

Originally posted by Betageuze
now... you will become absurd..

a short powerful pull of the rope... from Hulk or Hercules.... and Juggy WILL be moved...

he will be moved.. in a way... he sure would not like...

so .. please.... once and for all.... please forget this UNSTOPPABLE.. UNMOVEABLE.. "shit" .. from Juggy...

he is a very powerful.. impressive force... BUT.. he IS NOT... WASNT EVER... the unstoppable force... you wish to see in him.. To all these guys he is

Team 2 in a stomp.

Originally posted by Newjak
To all these guys he is

Well....he is.

the rope snaps, yeah i said it

Originally posted by Betageuze
now... you will become absurd..

a short powerful pull of the rope... from Hulk or Hercules.... and Juggy WILL be moved...

he will be moved.. in a way... he sure would not like...

so .. please.... once and for all.... please forget this UNSTOPPABLE.. UNMOVEABLE.. "shit" .. from Juggy...

he is a very powerful.. impressive force... BUT.. he IS NOT... WASNT EVER... the unstoppable force... you wish to see in him..
o and, WHY THE HELL DO YOU TYPE LIKE THAT? are you having trouble ending your sentences??? JEEZ!!!!

yeah, i said that too, you know you freaking wanted to too.

Originally posted by Betageuze
i know Mangog.....

perhaps .. here he is the third mightiest guy here (behind Thor and Hulk).... BUT... NOT .. in this kind of matches...

in this kind of match...

HULK
HERCULES
THOR
THING
WONDERMAN

and
JUGGERNAUT
GLADIATOR
ULIK

ARE the behemoths.... to BEAT.... and therefore.. its a 5 against 3...

of course... Juggy and Glady will not easy to beat by the opponents...

but a pissed of Hulk...
Immortal Hercules... hell of.
Thor... who NEVER want to loose
and Thing..... dont underestimate in this kind of a match

with Wonderman and Sasquatch.... TEAM 1 will survive... i believe..

Mangog has never really demonstrated any really significant strength feats. Knocking over thor hardly is that Impressive.

Is Juggernaut physically stronger than Hercules?

Originally posted by Don Mega
Is Juggernaut physically stronger than Hercules?

Irrelevant, but likely.

Originally posted by Don Mega
Is Juggernaut physically stronger than Hercules? hmm....probably doesn't matter since they are talking about momentum...but i'm not sure

Originally posted by Got da virus
Mangog has never really demonstrated any really significant strength feats. Knocking over thor hardly is that Impressive.



you mean he didnt over power thor with his TAIL???? i think you need to re-evaluate this statement.


Originally posted by Betageuze
Juggernaut has been moved before.......



only by exploiting his weaknesses.



Mangog could possibly pull all of team 1 by himself (if not he could atleast hold them still).


juggernaut could pull team 1 and 2. juggernaut wins it for them. add mangog into the mix and its a no brainer.

Originally posted by KillAll
you mean he didnt over power thor with his TAIL???? i think you need to re-evaluate this statement.


Sorry I didn't really understand that .... was it some hilarious quip about the Mangogs tail ?

no, mangog overpowered thor with his tail. it happened, and it verifies his strength.

Originally posted by KillAll
no, mangog overpowered thor with his tail. it happened, and it verifies his strength.

Yeah but his punches have only downed Thor, as have various other physically weaker beings, it doesn't really say much about his strength. His durability is unquestionable.

"Nothing can stop the juggernaut" is just a metaphor. Once Juggernaut builds up enough momentum, almost-nothing can stop him. It's really just a matter of having enough power to overpower cytrorak's enchantment on juggernaut which has been done before.

Juggernaut has a baseline class 100 strength but he's no Hulk, and he doesn't get any stronger than his enchantment allows.

I'm giving it to team one.

I like team one in this fight.

Originally posted by Evangel94
"Nothing can stop the juggernaut" is just a metaphor. Once Juggernaut builds up enough momentum, almost-nothing can stop him. It's really just a matter of having enough power to overpower cytrorak's enchantment on juggernaut which has been done before.


again only by exploiting weaknesses. juggernaut hasnt really ever been stopped otherwise. not even dimensional barriers posed a problem. has it ever been stated anywhere or been shown on panel that juggernaut has to BUILD momentum??? or that he just has to be moving in a direction??? i think its the latter. nobody says once juggernaut builds momentum hes unstoppable. no, its once he decides to move in a certain direction...

Originally posted by Evangel94
"Juggernaut has a baseline class 100 strength but he's no Hulk, and he doesn't get any stronger than his enchantment allows.


you mean juggernaut is just baseline 100?? even though he could hold his own with an exponentially powered up hulk??? or that narrative has most rescently described the juggernaut to have "immeasurable super human strength".... sounds alot more than baseline to me.


Originally posted by Evangel94
"I'm giving it to team one.


you would be betting on a losing team...


Originally posted by Got da virus
Yeah but his punches have only downed Thor, as have various other physically weaker beings, it doesn't really say much about his strength. His durability is unquestionable.



he has challenged odin physically. even more than thanos has. he pulped asgard by himself... if his tail is physically stronger than thor, the rest of his body is even more so...

Originally posted by KillAll
again only by exploiting weaknesses. juggernaut hasnt really ever been stopped otherwise. not even dimensional barriers posed a problem. has it ever been stated anywhere or been shown on panel that juggernaut has to BUILD momentum??? or that he just has to be moving in a direction??? i think its the latter. nobody says once juggernaut builds momentum hes unstoppable. no, its once he decides to move in a certain direction...


For Juggernaut to be stopped, obviousely he needs to actually needs to begin "moving" ala build up momentum. That's what the word implies.

In an exiles version of Juggernaut, Juggernaut was held in a maximum security mutant prison. Juggernaut was restrained and locked down, so he could not build up momentum and use his "juggernaut" movement powers. Although it's not "canon", that Juggernaut, had the same powers as the classic 616 Juggernaut. Even the movie version of Juggernaut was held down the same way in X-Men 3. Juggernaut needs to actually begin moving to be an "unstoppable" force.


Obviously, lot's of things can stop the juggernaut. He only has a skyfather level enchantment. Many capable powerhouses can either bypass it on completely overpower it. Remember that it's cytorak whose "giving" power to Juggernaut, so if a character who is more powerful than cytorak attacks Juggernaut, then it's game over.

And with regards to the Dimensional Barriers breaking, that's not even the same Juggernaut we're talking about in this discussion. That was "Trion" Juggernaut who was directly being influenced by Cytorak himself.

Team one wins in the strength department, but that doesn't automatically mean they can win a tug of War match......Juggernaut can be stopped physically, but not under these circumstances with THIS many characters. Then again, who the hell knows.

In a tug or war match Juggs isn't going to have the ability to begin moving at any pace at all so it's just his base strength against the others..

Still give hulk a few slaps to the ass or caps shield to the back of his melon and team one takes it..

Originally posted by StarsNeverFall7
In a tug or war match Juggs isn't going to have the ability to begin moving at any pace at all so it's just his base strength against the others..

Still give hulk a few slaps to the ass or caps shield to the back of his melon and team one takes it..

Errmm...they put him at the very end of the rope, and he lets it slack a little bit. He takes a half step back to remove the slack from the rope, and doesn't stop moving. He'll drag this team across the world, striking a meridian, if he damn well pleases.

Originally posted by Evangel94
That was "Trion" Juggernaut who was directly being influenced by Cytorak himself.

I don't think Cyttorak had anything to do with that. It was an entity called Trion that possessed Juggernaut.

Originally posted by StarsNeverFall7
In a tug or war match Juggs isn't going to have the ability to begin moving at any pace at all so it's just his base strength against the others..

Read what the above poster said. Plus if the ground were to give way, deepin because of his footsteps, that is also momentum.

Team two takes this.

Originally posted by Evangel94
For Juggernaut to be stopped, obviousely he needs to actually needs to begin "moving" ala build up momentum. That's what the word implies.


never implied that to me... all he has to do is start moving, and he's unstoppable. nothing builds up, that would imply over a period of time. like hulks anger.


Originally posted by Evangel94
In an exiles version of Juggernaut, Juggernaut was held in a maximum security mutant prison. Juggernaut was restrained and locked down, so he could not build up momentum and use his "juggernaut" movement powers. Although it's not "canon", that Juggernaut, had the same powers as the classic 616 Juggernaut. Even the movie version of Juggernaut was held down the same way in X-Men 3. Juggernaut needs to actually begin moving to be an "unstoppable" force.


irrelavant. but i'll touch on the juggernaut anyway. he was in no way at all like his 616 counterpart. he had scars all over his body (implying, since you like that word) that he didnt have the same invulnerability. also, he was a mutant... kinda like the movie juggernaut. not the MYSTICALLY empowered juggernaut. you are way off base on this one.


Originally posted by Evangel94
Obviously, lot's of things can stop the juggernaut. He only has a skyfather level enchantment.


speculation. although odin still couldnt stop juggernaut... PHYSICALLY. despite being loads more powerful.


Originally posted by Evangel94
Many capable powerhouses can either bypass it on completely overpower it.

again way off base. you cant just over power it. its magic. the spell says juggernaut is invulnerable and unstoppable. its just like gravity. if a powerhouse drops a glass of water, and a bruce banner also. they fall the same way. doesnt matter how strong the guy is dropping the glass. it doesnt matter how strong you are. you cant stop him.

Originally posted by Evangel94
Remember that it's cytorak whose "giving" power to Juggernaut, so if a character who is more powerful than cytorak attacks Juggernaut, then it's game over.

nobody really knows where he is. and nobody on that team is anywhere near cyttorak level... oh and i never forgot.

Originally posted by Evangel94
And with regards to the Dimensional Barriers breaking, that's not even the same Juggernaut we're talking about in this discussion. That was "Trion" Juggernaut who was directly being influenced by Cytorak himself.


no cyttorak did not influence him... you are still off. a touch up of juggernaut might help you. he has also did it under his OWN power, and his OWN mind.... so that rules that out.

Because an adamantium rope being pulled by both these teams is going to allow any area for slack? No. He doesn't get a change to get moving, build momenteum etc. Team one still takes it

Again, Juggernaut wins this for team 2...and Hulks base strength is not on the level of Mangogs.. Unless its a completely enraged Mindless Hulk, team 1 hasn't a chance.

Team 2 wins this EASILY

Team 2 ftw, IMO Hulk is a little overrated

Originally posted by KillAll
...

I don't want to waste my time picking apart your post to point out the errors and obviously laced insults that insinuate that I lack information on the Juggernaut. Real "mature". Instead of debating like a mature poster, you decide to throw insulting innuendos.


1. Juggernaut has been stopped physically before.

a.) Onslaught, War Hulk, and Regular Hulk have all stopped him and tossed him around like a rag doll.

b.) Nimrod, Vision, Nightcrawler, Beast, even Spiderman, and certain forcefields have completely stopped or stunned Juggernaut momentarily for him to stop as well.

2. You take things way too literally. Cyttorak is a sky-father level being. His enchantment only works up to a certain point. If a being more powerful than the power Juggernaut is being supplied from Cyttorak attacks Juggernaut, Juggernaut will be stopped, and/or hurt depending on the character. "Unstoppable" works up only to a certain point.

3. Cyttorak was inhabiting the body of "Trion" Juggernaut himself as a vessel. That's what gave juggernaut all that dimensional breaking power.

There are people here who have never read Mangog.

Here, do the service, please:

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,93025.1120.html

Saying Hulk, Thor or Hercules are in this cl are using nothing but whisfull thinking. Its dowrigth absurd.

And you dont need to have lifting feats to translate on how strong you are, we`ve been on this already. Doomsday doesnt have any and hes stronger than Superman in some incarnations by the simple reason he beat him.

Point taken: when have you seen Hercules or Hulk dismiss Thor`s attacks like this, i wonder?

Originally posted by olympian
There are people here who have never read Mangog.

Here, do the service, please:

http://herochat.com/forum/index.php/topic,93025.1120.html

Saying Hulk, Thor or Hercules are in this cl are using nothing but whisfull thinking. Its dowrigth absurd.

And you dont need to have lifting feats to translate on how strong you are, we`ve been on this already. Doomsday doesnt have any and hes stronger than Superman in some incarnations by the simple reason he beat him.

Point taken: when have you seen Hercules or Hulk dismiss Thor`s attacks like this, i wonder?

Sorry I'm new, and you're English is quite hard to follow sometimes. Are you suggesting that because Doomsday died at the hands of Superman, he is far stronger ? Was Muhammad Ali FAR stronger than George Foreman? The same applies to Mangog, beings such as the Destroyer, Thanos and even Superman (In the canon crossover) have put down Thor quicker than the Mangog, what does that say about his so called strength level ?

Originally posted by Evangel94
For Juggernaut to be stopped, obviousely he needs to actually needs to begin "moving" ala build up momentum. That's what the word implies.

In an exiles version of Juggernaut, Juggernaut was held in a maximum security mutant prison. Juggernaut was restrained and locked down, so he could not build up momentum and use his "juggernaut" movement powers. Although it's not "canon", that Juggernaut, had the same powers as the classic 616 Juggernaut. Even the movie version of Juggernaut was held down the same way in X-Men 3. Juggernaut needs to actually begin moving to be an "unstoppable" force.



Yeah I've always wondered that myself, I couldn't ever understand why he couldn't just use his apparent mountain moving strength to break the withstraints ?

Originally posted by Got da virus
Sorry I'm new, and you're English is quite hard to follow sometimes. Are you suggesting that because Doomsday died at the hands of Superman, he is far stronger ? Was Muhammad Ali FAR stronger than George Foreman? The same applies to Mangog, beings such as the Destroyer, Thanos and even Superman (In the canon crossover) have put down Thor quicker than the Mangog, what does that say about his so called strength level ?
Both Doomsday and Superman died. And this example is quite good for you. Doomsday did more than just going toe to toe with Superman, he actually had the advantage most of the match. Such that Superman stated he had to desperatly give its all in order to have a prayer in stopping him, towards the end. So, with that in mind, how would you rate Doomsday in that arc? Weaker than Superman, when the latter was having more troubles in putting his opponent down, than the other way around?

Weaker than Superman when Superman even with the backup of the rest of the Justice League team, couldnt do much damage? And yet, how many lifting feats did he had in that arc? Zero.

How about the Doomsday in the following arcs? In Hunter/Prey he beated Darkseid into the sand, and again Superman alone couldnt do anything to him. He actually had the arm broken from a single move by Doomsday. And yet..no lifting feats again. Was he weaker than Superman?

Lets look at a Marvel comics example now. Abomination when he first popped up didnt had lifting feats. Why is he argued then, as stronger than the Hulk at the time? Perhaps because, he simply punched him into the dirt. Wasent even a figth. And yet...no lifting feats. Was he weaker? No. Simply put, if you constantly go against guys that strong and show to have a close/equal or superior measure, then you are in that class. Even if you dont have lifting feats to show. If you do, even better, more to discuss.

Mangog falls in that category. He swated Thor away, effortsly in ways i have yet see the Hulk or Hercules do. Usually it would take Odin`s effort into battle to tip the favor in theyr`r side. And yet just because he has no lifting feats like some guys do, hes suposse to be weaker? No.

Thanos and Superman putting Thor down quickeir isent an account of nothing. Mangog usually is more busy destroying Asgard and dealing with the whole staff (Odin, Loki, etc) than just dealing with Thor. Not to mention, alot of the match that we saw in the JL/Avengers crossover happened off panel.

Originally posted by Evangel94
I don't want to waste my time picking apart your post to point out the errors and obviously laced insults that insinuate that I lack information on the Juggernaut. Real "mature". Instead of debating like a mature poster, you decide to throw insulting innuendos.


1. Juggernaut has been stopped physically before.

a.) Onslaught, War Hulk, and Regular Hulk have all stopped him and tossed him around like a rag doll.

b.) Nimrod, Vision, Nightcrawler, Beast, even Spiderman, and certain forcefields have completely stopped or stunned Juggernaut momentarily for him to stop as well.

3. Cyttorak was inhabiting the body of "Trion" Juggernaut himself as a vessel. That's what gave juggernaut all that dimensional breaking power.

Juggernaut has only been stopped, from a charge, by War Hulk and Thor's Godblast. None of those others have physically stopped him from a charge, which is where he is unstoppable.

It wasn't Cyttorak that was possessing Trion Juggernaut, it was the Trion.

Originally posted by Evangel94


1. Juggernaut has been stopped physically before.

a.) Onslaught, War Hulk, and Regular Hulk have all stopped him and tossed him around like a rag doll.



May I ask when Hulk stopped him? Without the celestial upgrade?

Originally posted by Betageuze
on the left:

Savage Hulk
Thor
Thing
Immortal Hercules
Wonderman
Namor
Sasquatch
Team Captain: Captain America

versus:

Classic Juggernaut
Abomination
Wendigo
Rhino
Gladiator
Mangog
Ulik
Team Captain: Baron Zemo II

Referees: Pretcon Beyonder and the Watcher

7 against 7 ... no interference from outside.. with a rope made of adamantium

who wins ? Team 2 severly out classes team one. All it takes is a full confidence Glads and mangog to get the team going. Once Juggs gets in motion then it's been one. Team one falls in the mud hole.

Juggernaut Doubts:
First off, his strength hasn't showed a limit, cause he draws energies from Cyttorak, in his classic form, he went toe to toe with Thor as well as with other strong characters.
Speaking of his durability and "Unstoppable" ability:
GodForce Blast slowed him for a bit, but in their rematch Thor used Mjolnir to negate Cyttorak's magic in a sufficient manner to STUN Juggy with a punch, and no one can say to had stun Juggy with his bare hands.
Hulk enhanced by Apocalypse Celestials based technology and drawing energies from the HR and 616 Universe was able to stop him, but this was a majorly enhanced Hulk.

Mangong's abilities:
Strengthwise, he's listed as incalculable, he can go fist to fist with any top tier.Durability wise, it took a GF in the throath to kill him.