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Dooku at his most powerful. Kun at his most powerful.

1. Lightsaber duel
B. Force duel
C. List a random impressive feat of Dooku's or Kun's (I just like the idea because it will guarantee you learn something of one of the characters)

1. Dooku had more time to practice the art of lightsaber dueling. Kun was a saber prodigy who defeated his own master as a padawan. I would give the edge to Kun because of his unique blade and therefore, unique style.
2. Dooku didn't really show as much with the force as Kun did, but aside from the amulet blasts, Kun didn't do anything relevant to a versus fight. Don't know how this one would go.
3. Kun froze the entire Senate hall with a sith spell. I would call it a stasis field.
I'm not too sure what Dooku did because I know less about him, but his force lightning and lightsaber abilities were very impressive.

1. Exar, even Rampant has to agree with that.

2. If Kun has the amulet, likely him, if not, then I dunno.

4. The freezing the Senate, draining the Massassi was freakin' impressive, I don't if Dooku has done anything on that power scale.

I agree with the previous two posts

1. Exar Kun pwns him; he was greater than the guy who was able to stalemate a powerful jedi master who also happened to be a war hero/champion, and who was being driven by the darkside, an this was while said person had been cut off from the force and out of practise for 20 years. He also happened to be a saber genius; he created the first and most unique saber staff ever, and was able to wield it to great effect - quite easily able to defeat a 600 year old jedi master with it.

2. Dooku won't be able to defend against amulet blasts.

3. Kun froze the entire senate, choked Odan-Urr like he was a b1tch, mastered sith magic in like two seconds....

Exar and Dooku in a lightsaber contest will be tough, but I personally go with Dooku. As for a Force Duel, Exar wins definately. Overall, Kun is the better.

Kun with a double-bladed saber on him would defeat Dooku. I don't know about just one blade though.

1. Exar Kun for sure, hes the lightsaber prodigy.

2. With his amulet, the lesser Sith goes bye bye.

3. Exar Kun killed his own master when he was still a Padawan.

Originally posted by Tangible God
Kun with a double-bladed saber on him would defeat Dooku. I don't know about just one blade though.

? Exar's most likely greater with just the single blade.

Originally posted by Black Dalek
1. Exar Kun for sure, hes the lightsaber prodigy.

That would be Bane actually.



He didn't actually kill him, he lost the first time, and overwhelmed him the second.

While Dooku doesn't have much a shot, here, Exar beating Vodo's hardly a great mark, considering Vodo's utter reluctance in fighting him.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
While Dooku doesn't have much a shot, here, Exar beating Vodo's hardly a great mark, considering Vodo's utter reluctance in fighting him.

Actually, Vodo was described in the Power of the Jedi Sourcebook as being "no match" for Exar Kun, and tDSSB says that "Master Vodo did not have a chance". So, it really doesn't matter if he wasn't fully willing to fight (can I see the quote, for reference), because he'd be tooled regardless.

And Vodo's own spirits's admission sows he was unwilling to fight Exar fully.
This could be rather dependent. Point is, Exar did not win that fight against a willing opponent giving his all.

Btw, Advent, gonna grab AIM again soon?

Lightsnake, your point is moot. He was NO match for Kun regardless of how he felt(as advent stated), so it's irrelevant. Kun>>>>Vodo, period.

So...the fact Yodo was no match for Kun....what did Yodo do that makes this impressive?>

It's Vodo, not Yodo. And Vodo was the most powerful Jedi in the entire Order, with the possible exception of Odan. Odan, btw, was killed is seconds by a wave of Exar's hand.

What? Where do you get that from? Vodo hardly did anything impressive...he was another Jedi master around....there were also Vandar, Dorak, Zhar, Kavar....Thon and Arca would probably grind both of those guys into the dust as well

Actually Glentract, there is absolutely no proof that Vodo was the most powerful, or anywhere near the most powerful.

Vodo, Thon and Odan were the top three imo, and Vodo clearly was pretty powerful

yet there's no proof to back any of that up.

There is, lots of proof actually, If I have time I'll post some evidence.

sure, as usual.

Exar is a lightsaber prodigy who uses the double-bladed form style. Yes, I agree this is very impressive. However what makes him greater than Dooku and his skill with Makashi?

Dooku was considered to be one of the greatest losses to the Jedi Order and one of the strongest to go through it. He was a Battlemaster, and will likely won't be taken aback by Exar's style.

Dooku's skill with Makashi allowed to contest against the likes of very powerful swordsmen, like Grievous, Yoda, and Anakin.

I agree Exar is definately stronger in the Force and would win overall as well. I am just not sure that it's so definate that Exar can kill Dooku in a lightsaber contest as well.

Again, he was on par with Ulic at one point, who's been proven to be incredible.

Yes, so.......this necessarily doesn't mean he's stronger than Dooku.

BUMP

dookus force mastery > exar and that gives him an advantage.

Exar only has stupid amulet blasts and sith spells which might not work against a powerful force user like dooku. Though the amulet is extremely dangerous

EDIT and dont forget exar is extremely cocky and he would think dooku is an old fool.That could be his down fall. Exar has never been shown to use his amulet against a force user, he trys to show of by killing them with his lightsaber

Humm tough fight. I'd give a slight edge to Dooku in saber combat, but not much. It could go either way. The same being said for force. As some previous posters have mentioned Kun hasn't displayed any force power of relevance to a Vs. battle (other then 'teh l33t amulet blastz!!11') where as Dooku has, on many occasions. Regardless I'd say its pretty obvious that Kun's potential is far greater then Dooku's and Kun has more raw power then Dooku, the question then is: does he have the techniques/ knowledge? Hard to say, but Dooku has a great deal more experience then Kun does, making me believe that Dooku might have more knowledge in his possession. Overall I'd say that its a pretty close fight, could go either way.

I could agree with that, exar never used the amulets in battle neither did he display lightning, grip or other powers that people like sidious dooku and vader use to kill their enemies

1. I say Dooku. He runs circles around experienced opponents. He has beaten Mace in the past, tied him during the clone wars, beat AOTC Anakin and Obi Wan etc. http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sorapwnedys9.jpg http://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tholmedookuduelga6.jpg He also trained or was able to beat people like Greivous, Asajj, Qui Gon, and Quinlan. He knows Ataru inside and out (and likely most of the other forms) along with Makashi, and could probably beat any user (with Yoda as the exception, of course)
2. If the amulet blast could work on Dooku, and Dookus shield isn't strong enough to deflect it, then, there's your answer. However, Kuns other feats don't help him in a vs. match, while Dookus force pushes have been described as solid walls, he has some powerful lightning, he can throw Kenobi across the room easy cookies, he has choked Komari Vosa like nothing, he has casually choked Quinlan while taking his lightsaber with the force, and he, with one finger, brought Asajj to her knees with pain. If Kuns amulet blast is unblockable and he tries that first thing, then, he wins. If not, Dooku trumps him.
3. Dooku was the former battle master of the Order. He was able to Keep a wounded Greivous alive with the force. He led an attack against the last of the Mandolorians.

Originally posted by Kadesh
and dont forget exar is extremely cocky

"Extremely"? I'd say that's quite the overstatement. The majority of Sith Lords are cocky, but Exar Kun isn't "extremely cocky" by any stretch of the word. I can cite two examples where he's demonstrated that he doesn't underestimate his opposition, and both of which are off the top of my head:

1.) Taking a look back, when there is some friction between Kun and Ulic, as Ulic has just gained great military strength and wants to attack Coruscant. Kun warns against this, saying they should build slowly and attack together. Kun's attitude towards this attack is best summed up in his parting words:

"Very well, Qel-Droma. Prove your manhood if you must. If you fail, I will go on without you."

Ulic had soon after been arrested; his attack on Coruscant had failed, due to Aleema's manipulations.

2.) During his final moments in the flesh, he states "But even I can't fight the combined might of all the Jedi", and instead of attempting to defend against the oncoming foe (which would be unstoppable), he releases himself so he can live forever, and one day revert back to his real form.

Exar isn't cocky per se, he's confident, and rightfully so, but were a situation to arise like the above, I only see him display a sense of being level headed. Note: This is addressed further below.



ORLY?

I've always operated under the assumption that a Jedi could sense another's power level (see: Yoda/Obi-Wan, Vader/Luke), who's to say Exar will think Count Dooku's an "old fool"? Too bad Exar's thoughts aren't what Kadesh dictates, now are they? You haven't even established a pattern of him underestimating strong opponents.

Now, we've never actually witnessed Kun face anyone else (except Ulic) who is powerful enough to even begin to put him into a dangerous position. So, explain to me how you of all people can judge how he'd react to stronger opponents like Count Dooku?

In the same whim, if you were to list this as a disadvantage for Exar, then it's certainly one for Count Dooku. I'd submit that his arrogance is at an astounding level, definitely above and beyond Exar's. Which means, if it could lead to Exar's down fall, it has a more than likely chance to lead to Count Dooku's own.



Yes, this would seem absolutely correct except:

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/7694/kunsithamulette2.th.png
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6927/massassidarksidecy9.th.png

"But they use the dark side of the Force with skill to guide and control their primitive weapons!"

You were saying? Massassi are force users, whether primitive or not. As well, what's the relevance in even mentioning this? Since when does he have to display them against anyone for him to be able to use them? Oh? He doesn't? Exar's amulet beams are viable for this match given they're effects (blasting through temple rock, disintegrating Massassi and a Sith Wyrm, as well as setting ablaze the location), and the fact that they're tangible.

One could argue there'd be a defense, but even assuming Dooku has one, if he were to get hit off guard ala Yoda in RotS or plainly overpowered ("with every pulse of anger the amulet doubles the power of its discharge", then he'd go down. That's even assuming he had the knowledge of how to block something he'd only have minimal information on, if any at all.



Right:

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/7558/kunpwnsodankp2.th.png

If you could, Kadesh, point out to me in that entire scene where Exar's lightsaber was activated? Oh? What's that? It wasn't? Exar's only combated (back and forth) a grand total of three opponents after destroying Freedon Nadd's spirit. I'll show a short review of said opponents:

1.) Ulic Qel-Droma. Now, we all know he stalemated him in saber combat, however, the fight was interrupted. Plus, Kun dabbled more in the "forbidden teachings" of the Darkside after that anyways.

2.) Vodo Siosk-Bass. Yes, this piece of candy here posed so much of a threat, that Exar would need to blast a hole through him and the entire Senate arena. I mean, yeah - he caused so much trouble that he admitted defeat, and Exar tooled him after one page of igniting the other end of his lightsaber.

3.) Odan Urr. Yeah, not much action here, besides him dying with just a wave of his hand. Something he must've learned somewhere, eh? I doubt ol' Vodo taught him that trick.

In addition, he casually launches Sylvar with a Force push, and she is described as "of no consequence to ". He also toppled Aleema with Sith magic far greater than her own, and knocked her unconscious long enough for Ulic and Exar to engage in a duel, be interrupted by Marka Ragnos, and be crowned Dark Lord of the Sith, and apprentice respectively.

He didn't get a chance to take out Ood fully, seeing as how he rooted himself into the ground. But, other than the aforementioned, he hasn't fought many opponents. It's ridiculous to assume that he likes to use a lightsaber against his opponents when we've only seen him do so twice, and on several occasions, he's used the Force to either: a) remove, or b) kill the opposition. Exar has never shown a preference for using either one over the other.

Anyways, this is the Versus Forum, it's not a storybook, son. Exar has all of his powers in his arsenal, and can use them at will. It's an on paper duel.



Since when was that the prerequisite for being able to actively use them in combat? He's only fought three opponents, and only one was worthy.

It's an established fact that he knows numerous powers, we know what force lightning does; he doesn't have to exhibit it. Likewise, he knows force whirlwind, and it gives the exact definition of what it does in the same sourcebook that labels him as knowing it, so why would he have to show that he knows that power? From what I gather off your posts, you're trying to imply that Exar won't use said Force powers since he hasn't been shown to use them on any opponents - that's seems a little fallacious, given that Kun isn't required to do such for him to use them at any time in the duel where there's an opportunity.

Furthermore, Exar must know Force grip or something similar to it, which just happens to practically instakill thousand year old Jedi masters, who happen to be extremely knowledgeable in the ways of the Force, as well as powerful. For reference, see above scan where I call into question your lack of evidence about Exar using his lightsaber, and "showing off" (I suppose Obi-Wan must want to be a show off then, too, eh?).

Now, on top of all that, there's several other abilities he's been shown to know, which Count Dooku, in the most likely case, hasn't even heard of, much less have a defense for. For example, his immense knowledge of Sith magic, some of which he has demonstrated in action:

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/3662/kunaleemablast2tz4.th.png

Now, that alone doesn't mean much, but when you take into account of what the Jedi Academy Sourcebook states on the matter of Ancient Sith teachings:

"The dark knowledge of the Sith teachings died with Kun; it is extremely unlikely that any records survive, either on Yavin Four, or elsewhere (keep in mind that even Lord Vader, himself a Dark Lord of the Sith, did not know all there is to know of Sith powers)."

It becomes quite clear that the only likely candidates for knowing Sadow's teaching would be: 1) Darth Sidious, 2) Freedon Nadd, 3) Revan, and 4) Darth Bane (and the Ancients themselves, of course). Seeing as the quote implies that Darth Vader, who was under Sidious' tutelage for far longer than Count Dooku, didn't even know of such things; I find it nigh improbable that Count Dooku does.

Finally, there's the matter of what we've seen Exar do as a 4,000 year old weakened spirit. He was able to fry Gantoris from the inside out with a technique that wasn't Force lightning (seeing as how he cannot use it as a spirit; some form of a drain, perhaps), and then rendered every defense of which post-DE Luke knew futile:

"...Luke called upon the powers that Yoda and Obi-Wan had taught him-but everything he did, every skillful technique, failed utterly."

And it also mentions previously that he was seeking any defensive tactic to work. This would imply that he had no defense for it. As Lightsnake would undoubtedly point out, he could've been drawing on the focal points of the temple (or something of the sort), but to actually assume that Exar as a spirit has anything over himself in the flesh is ridiculous. He was stated to be unable to access certain techniques in his ghostly form, and had to draw upon other's life forces to even begin to sustain himself. Even with Kyp "Greenhorn" Durron, Exar as a living being is greater in power.

Plus, post-DE Luke is stronger than Count Dooku in the Force, anyways. So, I don't have much of a doubt that it would work on Dooku.

@ Jollyjim:

Where've I heard some of those feats you've listed before?

One thing to that pwnage Advent. You guys keep calling Exar Kun a "spirit". But I have continuously brought forth an argument that states Kun isn't a spirit in the normal sense. He DID use a technique to shed his body but it's more than likely that the Wall of Light confined him to the Massassi temple. So I wouldn't call him a spirit like Nadd, or Yoda. His spirit would be better compared to Sidious after his death on Endor, when he still had a small array of abilities.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
One thing to that pwnage Advent. You guys keep calling Exar Kun a "spirit". But I have continuously brought forth an argument that states Kun isn't a spirit in the normal sense. He DID use a technique to shed his body but it's more than likely that the Wall of Light confined him to the Massassi temple. So I wouldn't call him a spirit like Nadd, or Yoda. His spirit would be better compared to Sidious after his death on Endor, when he still had a small array of abilities.

I'm no ghostbuster, but...

He is still a spirit, regardless of what you would say, he's labelled as such in numerous sources, ergo that's what I'm inclined to call him. Plus, what exactly are you talking about, lol? It's quite obvious that he still could use some abilities (as my post points that out), although the majority of which were rendered useless, and he was still weak to the point where he had to drain students, so as he could preserve himself; anyways, the point is: he's still a spirit, nevertheless.

I notice you bring up the point of the "Wall of Light" technique the Jedi used bound him to the temple, well, Freedon Nadd was anchored to the physical world by his tomb.

I don't really know exactly what you're trying to get out, but Exar can be called a spirit. To be exact, tDSSB titles him as "Exar Kun, Dark Side Spirit", along with every other deceased Dark Lord who appeared as an apparition. There appears to be no distinction between people like Exar, and Sidious as opposed to Ragnos, or Nadd. Although, it says Exar was the only Sith Lord noted as willingly giving up his life, but that doesn't matter much.

You're right, Exar Kun and Sidious are in the same boat. They both have abilities they could use on living beings. The likes of Nadd and Yoda and any other spirit couldn't use physical abilities on living people. I'm just saying Kun used a ritual to become a spirit but not a normal spirit like you always hear about in the SW universe.

Originally posted by Advent




You were saying? Massassi are force users, whether primitive or not. As well, what's the relevance in even mentioning this? Since when does he have to display them against anyone for him to be able to use them? Oh? He doesn't? Exar's amulet beams are viable for this match given they're effects (blasting through temple rock, disintegrating Massassi and a Sith Wyrm, as well as setting ablaze the location), and the fact that they're tangible.
as i was saying, Did he ever demonstrate it on a jedi?. What difference does it make if the massassi were force users? The couldnt do what a jedi would do? I was saying, in a fight with another jedi, had exar even been shown to use the amulet to aid him, If no, why are you assuming he is using it in a battle against dooku?

Originally posted by Advent

One could argue there'd be a defense, but even assuming Dooku has one, if he were to get hit off guard ala Yoda in RotS or plainly overpowered ("with every pulse of anger the amulet doubles the power of its discharge", then he'd go down. That's even assuming he had the knowledge of how to block something he'd only have minimal information on, if any at all.
Thats when you are assuming that exar is using the amulet blasts during this battle, which he has never demonstrated in any other battle against jedis,
.png]http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/7558/kunpwnsodankp2.th.png
Originally posted by Advent

If you could, Kadesh, point out to me in that entire scene where Exar's lightsaber was activated? Oh? What's that? It wasn't? Exar's only combated (back and forth) a grand total of three opponents after destroying Freedon Nadd's spirit. I'll show a short review of said opponents: Firstly i was referring to the fight with vodo, he could have used the amulet but he chose to use his lightsaber, By the way, Odan is 1000 years old and got killed by a simple force push, is there even a reason to pull out the lightsaber? I dont think so
Originally posted by Advent

1.) Ulic Qel-Droma. Now, we all know he stalemated him in saber combat, however, the fight was interrupted. Plus, Kun dabbled more in the "forbidden teachings" of the Darkside after that anyways.
Thats right, sith alchemy and he cant even do a simple force drain without using sith aparatus

Originally posted by Advent

2.) Vodo Siosk-Bass. Yes, this piece of candy here posed so much of a threat, that Exar would need to blast a hole through him and the entire Senate arena. I mean, yeah - he caused so much trouble that he admitted defeat, and Exar tooled him after one page of igniting the other end of his lightsaber.


Well of course you assume the amulet blast is going to tear vodo apart and further more go through him to hit the senate wall, Again how do we know that would be the out come? But again, what about other "darkside" powers? Grip? crush? Lightning? He never demonstrated them in any of his battles


Originally posted by Advent

3.) Odan Urr. Yeah, not much action here, besides him dying with just a wave of his hand. Something he must've learned somewhere, eh? I doubt ol' Vodo taught him that trick. You mean a simple force push? It looked like he was using it, if it is a different technique, name the technique and elaborate it
Originally posted by Advent

In addition, he casually launches Sylvar with a Force push, and she is described as "of no consequence to ". He also toppled Aleema with Sith magic far greater than her own, and knocked her unconscious long enough for Ulic and Exar to engage in a duel, be interrupted by Marka Ragnos, and be crowned Dark Lord of the Sith, and apprentice respectively. Wow a force push and abit of sith alchemy who knocks out a weakling is impressive? Sylvar is a joke and aleema is a wussy if you compare her to actual jedis, Again the fight was like what a page or 2? Couldnt have been long, we cant tell, could have been 10 seconds could have been a minute, We dont know
Originally posted by Advent

He didn't get a chance to take out Ood fully, seeing as how he rooted himself into the ground. But, other than the aforementioned, he hasn't fought many opponents. It's ridiculous to assume that he likes to use a lightsaber against his opponents when we've only seen him do so twice, and on several occasions, he's used the Force to either: a) remove, or b) kill the opposition. Exar has never shown a preference for using either one over the other.

But has he been shown using the amulet to kill his enemies which are jedis? He wanted the artifacts ood was keeping, Ood rooted himself and what could kun have done to remove him? Simple, an amulte blast. he had ample time before the super nova reaches Ossus
Originally posted by Advent

Anyways, this is the Versus Forum, it's not a storybook, son. Exar has all of his powers in his arsenal, and can use them at will. It's an on paper duel. And? Has he demonstrated even a simple jolt of lightning which the DSSB claims he mastered? No, and there were times he could have used it

Originally posted by Advent

Since when was that the prerequisite for being able to actively use them in combat? He's only fought three opponents, and only one was worthy. Then i guess the fact that he used them on the massasi meant they > the jedi is it? Of course not
Originally posted by Advent

It's an established fact that he knows numerous powers, we know what force lightning does; he doesn't have to exhibit it. Likewise, he knows force whirlwind, and it gives the exact definition of what it does in the same sourcebook that labels him as knowing it, so why would he have to show that he knows that power? From what I gather off your posts, you're trying to imply that Exar won't use said Force powers since he hasn't been shown to use them on any opponents - that's seems a little fallacious, given that Kun isn't required to do such for him to use them at any time in the duel where there's an opportunity. So? DE sidious knows everything and yet we do ever argue that he would use techniques like deaadly sight, Spear of midnight black or electromagnetic torpedo, Why? Because simply he has never demonstrated them, its the same case with exar kun, lets say, Lumiya has never demonstrated lightning once in her life. And if we were to debate her in a versus fight, would it even be logical to say that she will be using lightning?

Originally posted by Advent

Furthermore, Exar must know Force grip or something similar to it, which just happens to practically instakill thousand year old Jedi masters, who happen to be extremely knowledgeable in the ways of the Force, as well as powerful. For reference, see above scan where I call into question your lack of evidence about Exar using his lightsaber, and "showing off" (I suppose Obi-Wan must want to be a show off then, too, eh?). Kill a thousand year old jedi? You mean Odan? I thought you said he killed odan with a wave of his hand? Clearly the comic showed us that exar used a simple push.
By the way so what jack does it mean if that jedi had a thousand years of knowledge of the force, yoda had what 800 and he couldnt defeat ROTS sidious who was out of practice for 13 years
Originally posted by Advent

Now, on top of all that, there's several other abilities he's been shown to know, which Count Dooku, in the most likely case, hasn't even heard of, much less have a defense for. For example, his immense knowledge of Sith magic, some of which he has demonstrated in action: And what about precognition?
Originally posted by Advent

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/3662/kunaleemablast2tz4.th.png
Aleema was a weakling, and all it did was knock her out

Originally posted by Advent


Finally, there's the matter of what we've seen Exar do as a 4,000 year old weakened spirit. He was able to fry Gantoris from the inside out with a technique that wasn't Force lightning (seeing as how he cannot use it as a spirit; some form of a drain, perhaps), and then rendered every defense of which post-DE Luke knew futile:
Yea, when he has the entire dark side of yavin to back him up, the golden globe to fuel his powers, uh-huh


Originally posted by Advent

And it also mentions previously that he was seeking any defensive tactic to work. This would imply that he had no defense for it. As Lightsnake would undoubtedly point out, he could've been drawing on the focal points of the temple (or something of the sort), but to actually assume that Exar as a spirit has anything over himself in the flesh is ridiculous. He was stated to be unable to access certain techniques in his ghostly form, and had to draw upon other's life forces to even begin to sustain himself. Even with Kyp "Greenhorn" Durron, Exar as a living being is greater in power.
He drew power from the golden globe as a spirit and if you assume this is on yavin, exar does pretty much get powered up, But wait the golden globe powers up sith lords, not just one specific force user. I discussed this with lightsnake

Originally posted by Advent

Plus, post-DE Luke is stronger than Count Dooku in the Force, anyways. So, I don't have much of a doubt that it would work on Dooku.


But i do, Because 1) he had the entire dark side on yavin2) he had the golden globe who could increase his powers alot 3) Sadly this only takes place on yavin

Originally posted by Advent
I'm no ghostbuster, but...

He is still a spirit, regardless of what you would say, he's labelled as such in numerous sources, ergo that's what I'm inclined to call him. Plus, what exactly are you talking about, lol? It's quite obvious that he still could use some abilities (as my post points that out), although the majority of which were rendered useless, and he was still weak to the point where he had to drain students, so as he could preserve himself; anyways, the point is: he's still a spirit, nevertheless.

I notice you bring up the point of the "Wall of Light" technique the Jedi used bound him to the temple, well, Freedon Nadd was anchored to the physical world by his tomb.

I don't really know exactly what you're trying to get out, but Exar can be called a spirit. To be exact, tDSSB titles him as "Exar Kun, Dark Side Spirit", along with every other deceased Dark Lord who appeared as an apparition. There appears to be no distinction between people like Exar, and Sidious as opposed to Ragnos, or Nadd. Although, it says Exar was the only Sith Lord noted as willingly giving up his life, but that doesn't matter much.

Exar took numerous precautions to assume he didn't fade over time and lose his power...the Golden Globe, the darkness in Yavin, the giant statues? All of those he had to draw on when he awakened later on.

Moreover, he wasn't 'bound' by the Wall of Light. His own **** up did that. Didn't he even admit that he bound his spirit to Yavin but didn't forsee it'd trap him?

Originally posted by The Sith'ari
Vodo, Thon and Odan were the top three imo, and Vodo clearly was pretty powerful

That can Easily be disputed the for all we know Vandar could pwn Vodo in a few secs after all he seemed to be closer to Grand Master at the time than Anyone w/ the possible exeption of Odan

Originally posted by Kadesh
as i was saying, Did he ever demonstrate it on a jedi?

Except that's not what you said. If you're memory is really that horrid, then I have no problem posting your exact words. You see, what you did was attempt to parrot others' arguments on the matter, and what you failed to realize about doing such is that it's often going to be incorrect unless you were to word it differently.

My advice: make your own arguments. It has been shown to work on living, Force using beings, ergo you'll need to specify which Force users.



Actually, the real question is: who cares if it hasn't been exhibited on a Jedi? We know exactly what type of energies the beams release, which is dark side energy. This is the very same type that the Dark Jedi, Jerec, had used on Kyle Katarn after he found the Valley of the Jedi, and got an exponential boost of power.

Essentially, through Jerec's actions, it's safe to assume they work on Force users, considering Kyle was a Force user, and the most prodigious of such, as well (more so than Luke, even). A defense is possible, but given the sheer magnitude and power behind the blasts (to the point where they literally disintegrate whole beings, and blast holes through a monstrous Sith Wyrm), I find it highly unlikely that anyone short of Yoda could even attempt to block such things.



Yes, but what I'm saying is that's ridiculous. I've already addressed the fact that he doesn't have to display powers in battle for him to use them. The fact of the matter is: there was never anyone to use it on.

He's been shown to use the amulet when he was threatened, why must one use a power against a Jedi for him to use in a battle against one? In this case, you cannot use the absurd logic you're using because we know he has said powers, and was willing to use them; the fact he didn't use them on a Force user is irrelevant.



Kadesh, when has Darth Vader ever used Force crush on a Jedi? Oh? He hasn't? Fancy that. Aren't you the Vader fellater (lol!), who constantly says "t3h vader shall crush teh d00d!!!ONELEVEN"?

Double standards do apply, you know. But, I'm getting a little off topic. To return to my point, of course I'm going to assume that Exar can use a weapon in his arsenal. We've never seen him use force lightning during a bout, does this mean he cannot do such? Don't be ridiculous. I've already made a list of those who he has ever affected in a duel, and a grand total of one stood out as being powerful. What reason would he actually have to launch a full scale attack?

Answer: He wouldn't need to, seeing as how all the Jedi that he faced (save for Ulic, again) were out of his league by light years. Out of all that we have actually seen, not one of them could even stand up to Exar. Even going on the movies alone, in AotC, Count Dooku had no reason to use force choke, or grip or any other techniques against Anakin, and Obi-Wan (albeit, he used lightning; but we can assume it wasn't his upper limit), does this mean he couldn't? Absolutely not.

He doesn't need to demonstrate these powers in a duel for him to use them here, seeing as this isn't a storybook. There is no plot, no set course of events. It's an on paper duel.



See above. He doesn't need to.



Actually, Kadesh, you were very vague, and you clearly weren't referring to Vodo (singularly). Can we take a look at what you initially wrote:

Originally posted by Kadesh
he trys to show of by killing them with his lightsaber

Is Vodo two or more people? Oops! Please, if you intend to attempt (key) to argue against me, you'd better be clear. Your post definitely didn't indicate that you were referencing Vodo, so here you seem to either be: a) lying or b) attempt to save your arguments. Either that, or you truly have no understanding of the English language.

Buddha be damned! I keep forgetting to directly address the "point" (I don't see one, but...). Who cares if he didn't use an amulet blast to kill Vodo? Throughout the entire dialogue during the duel, he says "Join me". Clearly, his initial plans were to attempt to turn him. Once he figures out that Vodo's refusal stands strong, he cleaves him in two.

Also, it was his former master; why strike him down so easily when he could toy with him? I could also ask questions like: why does Sidious only use Force lightning on Yoda one time? Why not twice? Why does Yoda ignite his lightsaber instead of using another Force power? Why doesn't everyone use a Force power against General Grievous? Why doesn't Anakin just Force push every single droid he encounters?

It has to do with the plot, what the author wants. Here, none of such restrictions apply. I could ask why doesn't he use his lightsaber on Odan Urr? Why use a technique that chokes him?



"A simple Force push"? Kadesh, the only person who was pushed was Exar Kun. Take another look at that scan, you blind bat:

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/741/kunpwnsodanfq7.th.png

Where was Odan pushed? Oh? Lying now? By the way, you'll also notice that, in the bottom panel, his fingers are trying to clench the collar on his robe around his throat.



Sith alchemy? Do you blatantly love making shit up? Or telling me what such things are, when you haven't even read the source material?

The "forbidden teachings", as you wanted to point out for whatever irrelevant reasons, are Ancient Sith teachings from Naga Sadow, of which he mastered by the end of TSW. That would include: Sith magic, Sith powers, and oh! Sith alchemy.

But, hey, I give you kudos for naming one of the things; then again, you don't even know what Sith alchemy is, lol!



So, when he drained Gantoris' life force, what "Sith apparatus", did he use? Direct quotes, please. And can you actually prove that he cannot drain without using said "apparatus"? I'd submit not.



Considering how minuscule in comparison to a Sith Wyrm Vodo is, I'd say that's a definite outcome.

We get a full scale view of how large the Sith Wyrm was that was unleashed on Kun. From the following picture, we also see how big a Massassi is in comparison:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7346/sithbeastkuntu4.th.png

Notice the major size difference? We can also assume that the Wyrm would be tougher to blast through, anyways. However, we see that Exar was able to completely blast a hole through part of the Wyrm, and it continued to travel:

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2010/kunamulet23rbwg3.th.png

It's highly likely that someone as small as Vodo would be disintegrate with much easier (given his size, and mass), and the blast would, of course, go on past his body.



I see the entire point flew over your head like Superman. I'd suggest you reread what I wrote. You're addressing them as separate points, when - in this case - they are a single point.


Originally posted by Advent
"A simple Force push"? Kadesh, the only person who was pushed was Exar Kun. Take another look at that scan, you blind bat:

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/741/kunpwnsodanfq7.th.png

Where was Odan pushed? Oh? Lying now? By the way, you'll also notice that, in the bottom panel, his fingers are trying to clench the collar on his robe around his throat.

Elaborate what? It's an unknown technique, one would assume Force grip or choke given by his hand actions (Odan's).



No, are you really that daft? As I've said before, you are a moron. This is what I'm referring to:

"It's ridiculous to assume that he likes to use a lightsaber against his opponents when we've only seen him do so twice, and on several occasions, he's used the Force to either: a) remove, or b) kill the opposition. Exar has never shown a preference for using either one over the other."

Same point con't...



Like I said above, on every single one of my points you are assuming that I am listing them for the sake of proving Exar's worth. But, that's not what I'm doing. Seeing as you are severely lacking in reading comprehension, I might as well spoon feed you this shit. It's not about feats, as you so blindly assume, it's really about the fact he hasn't shown a preference during a fight, so your claim was inaccurate. Although, your claim was irrelevant to begin with; but I tried to make it relevant by applying what you said into this duel, and thusly disproved it.



See above.

We don't need to know, seeing as how everything you've wrote has nothing to do with my point. As a matter of fact, you're proving my point! I stated that no one he's affected, whether through uses of the Force, or with a lightsaber, warranted the use of such powers.

Thanks, rofl!



See above. We don't need to.



Oh, my, yes. How could I forget! Use an amulet beam, which has been shown to devastate the target by disintegration, and afterwards setting ablaze the area! Imagine that against a tree, which right under it are were said artifacts are located. Why not just use the Death Star's superlaser, for Buddha's sake?

Get real, Kadesh. He would gravely put to risk what he was even after. Note: This is addressed further below.



1.) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/6425/littletimekunkb9.th.png

Hate to burst your bubble, but to directly quote Exar Kun: "We have little time to take it all for ourselves!". You were saying?

2.) http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3097/conflagarationhitstk9.th.png

It's obvious that Exar didn't care too much about what the Neti possessed, given his dialogue here, and on the following page where the omniscient narrator states that Exar has "more wealth and knowledge than can hope to use".



Again, you're trying to say that this is a prerequisite for using a power in battle, when it's not. He doesn't have to exhibit a technique of which we know he has; and of which we know the effects of. Your assertions regarding this point are pure ludicrous. They have absolutely no logic backing them.

We've seen him throw out Force powers against his foes, that's enough evidence to support that he would use any other techniques in his arsenal. In terms of the comics, why use strong powers against weak opponents? In the same boat, except twisted around for this specific duel, why use weak powers (push, etc.) against strong opponents?

Answer to both: you wouldn't do such.



Then again, you also decided not to include other facts, and instead tried to twist my words, so as they might fit your argument. The Sith Wyrm > The Jedi. Yes, considering how it was able to swallow Jedi whole.in one bite. And the fact that he, at that time, was in dire need of some form of assistance. He was merely a rogue padawan when he first used the beams against the Wyrm, what powers could he have used then? I'd submit any padawan would've been doomed in the same situation, especially when you take into consideration the fact that he was unarmed, the light side was blocked from him, he just regained consciousness, and was being grappled by the beast.

Plus, initially, as the energies grew, he said he could "barely direct it". So, I wouldn't say killing the Massassi was intentional, or it might have been, which either way doesn't matter considering he was already using the beams as a last resort in that specific situation. Since then, he's mastered the amulets, however.



No, he doesn't. Quit lying out of your ass, Kadesh. I don't want to call you directly out on it, but at this point, you're spewing absolute bullshit. The actual quote is:

"It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers and devises new ones at his pleasure."

Now, prove up or shut up, noob.



1.) Spear of Midnight Black? The only known usage of that technique was by Kyle Katarn, and that's only a possibility. Proof that Palpatine knows it?

2.) Electromagnetic Torpedo? The only known user of this technique was Rokur Gepta. Proof that Palpatine knows it? Why would Gepta share the secret with Palpatine? And not to say this is an actual source, or evidence, but even your lame ass Wookiepedia says that.

3.) Anyways, the difference between what you listed, and what I'm arguing is simple: Exar is stated to know these powers for fact. The same can not be said for Palpatine, and the aforementioned powers. Try again.

Because simply he has never demonstrated them, its the same case with exar kun, lets say, Lumiya has never demonstrated lightning once in her life. And if we were to debate her in a versus fight, would it even be logical to say that she will be using lightning?

Has it been said anywhere that Lumiya actually knows Force lightning?

Anyways, the difference between what you listed, and what I'm arguing is simple: Exar is stated to know these powers for fact. The same can not be said for Lumiya, and the aforementioned power. Try again.

Plus, Lumiya is a cyborg anyways. She can't generate lightning because of such, so you're right - it would be illogical to say she would use lightning. Hahaha! Note: You weren't actually right about your reasonings for her not throwing out a blast of lightning, just in case you misinterpret "you're right" as you actually being right.

QED.



Originally posted by Advent
"A simple Force push"? Kadesh, the only person who was pushed was Exar Kun. Take another look at that scan, you blind bat:

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/741/kunpwnsodanfq7.th.png

Where was Odan pushed? Oh? Lying now? By the way, you'll also notice that, in the bottom panel, his fingers are trying to clench the collar on his robe around his throat.

"Clearly"? Do these overstatements come free with every post?



It's the fact that he was able to so casually defeat him, that's actually the impressive part. Seeing as Odan was powerful, it's only a testament to Exar's power. I love how you attempt to downplay, it's so cute.



What the hell does that have to with what I wrote? If you're trying to say that Count Dooku's precognition might help him defend against such things, I'd ask: what are you sticking up your ass? A tampon dipped in alchohol? Precognition won't help Tyranus against an attack of which you've yet to prove he even has a defense for.



Which wasn't really the point. She, however, actually had learned Sith magic, whereas Count Dooku has not, therefore it's likely to assume such magic would affect Dooku, and he couldn't block them.



Really? That's funny, I don't recall the Golden Globe ever being mentioned in I, Jedi or the Jedi Academy trilogy. Care to provide a specific quote(s)?



Really? That's funny, I don't recall the Golden Globe ever being mentioned in I, Jedi or the Jedi Academy trilogy. Care to provide a specific quote(s)?



Wow, that means jack shit. Thanks for mentioning it!



But, I don't care seeing as what you think doesn't matter.



Really? That's funny, I don't recall the Golden Globe ever being mentioned in I, Jedi or the Jedi Academy trilogy. Care to provide a specific quote(s)?

Im not in the mood to put up another Pwned sign.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Exar took numerous precautions to assume he didn't fade over time and lose his power the Golden Globe, the darkness in Yavin, the giant statues? All of those he had to draw on when he awakened later on.

Relevance to what I said? None? Thanks. Although, I will say if he had such extreme things to summon power from, why exactly would he need to drain Gantoris' life force?

"Realizing that Gantoris is no longer his, Kun utterly drains him to provide himself a reserve of energy to last until he can subvert more students."

By the way, can you provide the quote about the Golden Globe? As I don't remember that having been mentioned in I, Jedi or the Jedi Academy trilogy, and I've flipped through DLotS, and TSW, but didn't see it; a page number if it's in the comics would do. Actually, I'd like to see all the quotes referencing Exar drawing up such things - not that I don't believe you, but I'm not searching through the books or whatever else.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Im not in the mood to put up another Pwned sign.

Awww.

Edit:

I forget to include the quote feature on one of Kadesh's so called "points", so if you'll excuse me while I do that now:



Has it been said anywhere that Lumiya actually knows Force lightning?

Anyways, the difference between what you listed, and what I'm arguing is simple: Exar is stated to know these powers for fact. The same can not be said for Lumiya, and the aforementioned power. Try again.

Plus, Lumiya is a cyborg anyways. She can't generate lightning because of such, so you're right - it would be illogical to say she would use lightning. Hahaha! Note: You weren't actually right about your reasonings for her not throwing out a blast of lightning, just in case you misinterpret "you're right" as you actually being right.

QED.

Originally posted by Advent


Relevance to what I said? None? Thanks. Although, I will say if he had such extreme things to summon power from, why exactly would he need to drain Gantoris' life force?

"Realizing that Gantoris is no longer his, Kun utterly drains him to provide himself a reserve of energy to last until he can subvert more students."

By the way, can you provide the quote about the Golden Globe? As I don't remember that having been mentioned in I, Jedi or the Jedi Academy trilogy, and I've flipped through DLotS, and TSW, but didn't see it; a page number if it's in the comics would do. Actually, I'd like to see all the quotes referencing Exar drawing up such things - not that I don't believe you, but I'm not searching through the books or whatever else.


I was just bringing it up, thank you.

And possibly Kun needed Gantoris's life energy to repair his strength enough to access his other resevoirs. All I do now is KJA can't write a cohesive storyline.

Source would be the 'young Jedi Knights' series by KJA and Rebecca Moesta, I believe, btw. The Golden Globe was what Exar used to imprison the Massassi children to use their life forces later. And the requisite darkness on Yavin as it was was Kun's to use.

Also, out of curiosity, Advent, been on IM lately?

In Darth Sexy's place, I think someone's(Kadesh) just been:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a256/LordSaboteur/idiotpwned.gif

ok i concede my points..

By the way Advent, where does it state the golden globe fuels his powers? It needs massassi to do so, and the old essential guide to characters backed this up

Originally posted by Kadesh
ok i concede my points..

By the way Advent, where does it state the golden globe fuels his powers? It needs massassi to do so, and the old essential guide to characters backed this up

I know the Golden Globe fed his energy during the ceremony where he unleashed himself from the flesh, but afterwards? I haven't heard such a thing in the actual source material, so provide a quote from tEGtC then if you actually want me to accept it; otherwise I can only assume it's not in there.

Now, the reason for me to say something like that is because if he actually had the Golden Globe, or the dark side of Yavin (?), then that begs the question: why is he so weak? Let me show you some evidence I've compiled from a single source:

"Kun discovered that one of his great temples was inhabited by a small band of armed humans. But before he could gather enough strength to reach out to tap his energy source, the Force-user and his fellows departed, and Kun again lapsed into sleep.

Eagerly, but cautiously, Kun observes each arrival, proving for weaknessess and the power he needs to restore his lost reserves of energy. For a time, he is able to suside by feeding on their residual energy, but soon he will need worshippers if he is to grow more active.

Enraged and drained, Ken returns to Gantoris. Desperate for more energy, he goads Gantoris

"Realizing that Gantoris is no longer his, Kun utterly drains him to provide himself a reserve of energy to last until he can subvert more students." (Jedi Academy Sourcebook, pg. 49)

The first statement is talking about a Force sensitive human who arrived on Yavin, not any of Luke's Jedi, and the third statement is made in reference to when Kun appears to Luke as a shade of his father, and Luke rejects him. He's "drained", and is "desperate for energy", yet - according to you - he can call upon the Golden Globe, the dark side of Yavin, and other things. To me, if what you're saying is true, then those things do not help him much, if they even do at all.

So, given what I know, and what I provided (and your complete lack of evidence), I maintain my position that Exar, in physical form, is far greater than as a mere apparition (and that Exar > Count Dooku).

@ Lightsnake:



Well, yeah, actually, lol. I'll probably be on today after classes, around 4.

These are my thoughts, so dont get the wrong idea that im going to argue


ok well but its from the old version of the essential guide to characters and its summarised ALOT bigger than TNEGTC.

page 99 of the old essential guide to characters.


Wait before that, was it exar kun or kyp durron who tore lukes spirit from his own body?

Heres the quote
which says so.


The young man attacked the jedi master with the help of exar kun, using dark side lightning to seperate lukes spirit from his body

Ok forgive me but sometimes i am unable to understand certein passages, To this quote i have pulled out i assumed it was exar who used lightning because of the key word dark side lightning, i doubt kyp has learnt this technique at that time although i am wrong.

I havnt read the novel yet so i cant say much about this one, this one i leave it to you to either smash or confirm it.


Heres the one about the massasi thing i kept talking about. This is mentioned in this book im holding that summarised the time before exar kun gets wacked by the academy.



Kun mocked the students and their minor force talents ; yet this time he had no massassi to feed his waning power page 99 The old essential guide to characters.

Ok a few things id like to bring out. I assumed that kun was some how draining the massassi to fuel his powers either through sith aparatus or through the golden globe, that one i cant tell for sure because i didnt research on this part much( exars not my fav character so i dont bother much). Like i said i havnt read the book yet so i cant tell for sure, only you can for this matter i think.

Ok the keyword is "minor force talents" which w as referring to the academys students and i doubt that "sith lightning" is a minor talent andn that since this is a jedi academy and not a sith academy that it would be highly unlikely kyp knew this power thus using lightning on luke so i assumed since exar is the masterful sith lord, i assumed from the book that it was referring to kun using the lightning, I MAY be wrong lol i didnt read the book,

Anyways the rest i leave to you advent, these are just my thoughts so dont get the wrong idea that i want to argue and get my ass moped

Originally posted by Advent
I know the Golden Globe fed his energy during the ceremony where he unleashed himself from the flesh, but afterwards? I haven't heard such a thing in the actual source material, so provide a quote from tEGtC then if you actually want me to accept it; otherwise I can only assume it's not in there.

Now, the reason for me to say something like that is because if he actually had the Golden Globe, or the dark side of Yavin (?), then that begs the question: why is he so weak? Let me show you some evidence I've compiled from a single source:

"Kun discovered that one of his great temples was inhabited by a small band of armed humans. But before he could gather enough strength to reach out to tap his energy source, the Force-user and his fellows departed, and Kun again lapsed into sleep.

Eagerly, but cautiously, Kun observes each arrival, proving for weaknessess and the power he needs to restore his lost reserves of energy. For a time, he is able to suside by feeding on their residual energy, but soon he will need worshippers if he is to grow more active.

Enraged and drained, Ken returns to Gantoris. Desperate for more energy, he goads Gantoris

"Realizing that Gantoris is no longer his, Kun utterly drains him to provide himself a reserve of energy to last until he can subvert more students." (Jedi Academy Sourcebook, pg. 49)

The first statement is talking about a Force sensitive human who arrived on Yavin, not any of Luke's Jedi, and the third statement is made in reference to when Kun appears to Luke as a shade of his father, and Luke rejects him. He's "drained", and is "desperate for energy", yet - according to you - he can call upon the Golden Globe, the dark side of Yavin, and other things. To me, if what you're saying is true, then those things do not help him much, if they even do at all.

So, given what I know, and what I provided (and your complete lack of evidence), I maintain my position that Exar, in physical form, is far greater than as a mere apparition (and that Exar > Count Dooku).

@ Lightsnake:



Well, yeah, actually, lol. I'll probably be on today after classes, around 4.

As I said: After killing Gantoris, Kun became more powerful. It's possible he needed his life force to reach out to the sources of power. In I, Jedi, he's built up around there quite a bit and even left sources of dark side power for the day he was gone.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Wait before that, was it exar kun or kyp durron who tore lukes spirit from his own body?

It was Exar Kun who actually knew the technique. However, it was Kyp who launched the initial assault. He augmented Kyp's power, and attacked in conjunction to the point where Luke was overwhelmed.

Though, again, I will say that Exar in his physical form is far greater in power than the greenhorn Kyp Durron, and his spirit - that's just for anyone who might say that Exar can't pull off such a technique, when he clearly can. Seeing as even post-DE Luke, who had learned from Sidious himself, Yoda, and Obi-Wan couldn't even muster a defense for the technique, I doubt people like Count Dooku, Darth Vader, and the like would be able to even attempt such a thing.



You're wrong here. Exar Kun had taught Kyp Durron just some "remnant powers" (which would suggest that it was an extremely small amount), and Kyp knew how to summon lightning, or some form of it:

"With the Sun Crusher looming behind him, Kyp stretched out both hands and blasted Luke with lightning bolts like black cracks in the Force. Dark tendrils rose up from gaps in the temple flagstones, fanged, illusory vipers that struck at him from all sides.

The ancient Dark Lord of the Sith lashed out with waves of blackness, driving long icicles of frozen poison into Luke's body. He thrashed, but felt helpless. To lose control to anger and desperation would be as great a failure as if he did nothing at all." (Dark Apprentice, p. 339)

Now, from the description given, we can assume that it isn't standard force lightning, but it is some form of it, hence "dark side lightning" could've been used as a loose term for describing the above. Exar does add his power, and attacks with a different technique, though.



I don't know exactly what the purpose of you writing this was, as it didn't have much, if anything, to do with what I wrote. But, I addressed it anyways.



But, he wasn't. See my previous post. There's no mention of him feeding on any of the Massassi, and the Golden Globe isn't so much as noted once in the actual source material (i.e I, Jedi, Jedi Academy trilogy).

Given that fact, one could say that it was merely referencing his death in TSW. There was still Massassi trapped in the Golden Globe after Exar's death; so, that begs the question of why couldn't he drain them at that point? The only likely assumption is that he never could, or did, and that it's in regards to the ritual at his death. If I may, we know that he practically committed genocide by draining the Massassi, and they did fuel the power needed to unleash his spirit:

"Drained from thousands of Massassi sacrifices... the power is rising. The ritual begun... Sith power objects unleashed!"

Plus, did you even read what I wrote regarding this? Why would he be so weak if he had such sources to draw from? It's apparent that what you believe isn't the case.



Actually, it is. If I recall correctly, Quinlan Vos was able to generate lightning, even though he had hardly been trained by Count Dooku.

But, anyways, that's not the point. We already know that Exar taught Kyp a small amount of Sith powers, and clearly one of said powers was some form of force lightning.



You are wrong, the novel is what makes it clear, actually.



I'm not quite understanding what you're trying to get at, Kadesh, seeing as how it doesn't have much to do with what I wrote (i.e. the lightning bit).

He used Lightning in the Clone Wars? Damn, I need to read Light and Dark again.

Vos used Force Lightning, albeit a weak one, on Volfe Karkko in the Darkness saga. Obviously though, Quinlan was in such a state of horror, sadness, and anger that he wasn't thinking properly and just roared out and unleashed some Lightning. I doubt he was trained by anybody to that, it just naturally formed by all his devastation thrown out by the Force.

Sure.

Does Kun have his Sith saber. If so, He might eake out a victory.

Originally posted by Advent
It was Exar Kun who actually knew the technique. However, it was Kyp who launched the initial assault. He augmented Kyp's power, and attacked in conjunction to the point where Luke was overwhelmed.

Though, again, I will say that Exar in his physical form is far greater in power than the greenhorn Kyp Durron, and his spirit - that's just for anyone who might say that Exar can't pull off such a technique, when he clearly can. Seeing as even post-DE Luke, who had learned from Sidious himself, Yoda, and Obi-Wan couldn't even muster a defense for the technique, I doubt people like Count Dooku, Darth Vader, and the like would be able to even attempt such a thing.



You're wrong here. Exar Kun had taught Kyp Durron just some "remnant powers" (which would suggest that it was an extremely small amount), and Kyp knew how to summon lightning, or some form of it:

"With the Sun Crusher looming behind him, Kyp stretched out both hands and blasted Luke with lightning bolts like black cracks in the Force. Dark tendrils rose up from gaps in the temple flagstones, fanged, illusory vipers that struck at him from all sides.

The ancient Dark Lord of the Sith lashed out with waves of blackness, driving long icicles of frozen poison into Luke's body. He thrashed, but felt helpless. To lose control to anger and desperation would be as great a failure as if he did nothing at all." (Dark Apprentice, p. 339)

Now, from the description given, we can assume that it isn't standard force lightning, but it is some form of it, hence "dark side lightning" could've been used as a loose term for describing the above. Exar does add his power, and attacks with a different technique, though.



I don't know exactly what the purpose of you writing this was, as it didn't have much, if anything, to do with what I wrote. But, I addressed it anyways.



But, he wasn't. See my previous post. There's no mention of him feeding on any of the Massassi, and the Golden Globe isn't so much as noted once in the actual source material (i.e I, Jedi, Jedi Academy trilogy).

Given that fact, one could say that it was merely referencing his death in TSW. There was still Massassi trapped in the Golden Globe after Exar's death; so, that begs the question of why couldn't he drain them at that point? The only likely assumption is that he never could, or did, and that it's in regards to the ritual at his death. If I may, we know that he practically committed genocide by draining the Massassi, and they did fuel the power needed to unleash his spirit:

"Drained from thousands of Massassi sacrifices... the power is rising. The ritual begun... Sith power objects unleashed!"

Plus, did you even read what I wrote regarding this? Why would he be so weak if he had such sources to draw from? It's apparent that what you believe isn't the case.



Actually, it is. If I recall correctly, Quinlan Vos was able to generate lightning, even though he had hardly been trained by Count Dooku.

But, anyways, that's not the point. We already know that Exar taught Kyp a small amount of Sith powers, and clearly one of said powers was some form of force lightning.



You are wrong, the novel is what makes it clear, actually.



I'm not quite understanding what you're trying to get at, Kadesh, seeing as how it doesn't have much to do with what I wrote (i.e. the lightning bit). well thanks for sumarising that, Btw do you still have the book? i cant seem to find it in any book store.

Btw advent have you read shadows of the empire novel?

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Does Kun have his Sith saber. If so, He might eake out a victory.

What does having a Sith saber have to do with anything?

Actually, he said HIS sith saber, probably meaning the double edged one....

Great points, Advent...but, uh, any thoughts on who'd win? I'm guessing you're going for Kun.

Yes, I'd say Exar wins, only because he does.

Exar'd probably win. But not easily. Not in the least. And in saber alone, Exar may very well lose

Wholy crap Advent, nice posts.

Exar Kun would indeed win with a saber. He might not be that much better than Dooku but with his foreign technique and blade, he has the full advantage. He would pwn Dooku with the force.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Wholy crap Advent, nice posts.
QFT.

Dooku wins, only because i am his fan.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Dooku wins, only because i am his fan.

Chin up son. Dooku's dead, except it.

Noooooooooooooooo.
He is not dead, he is on vacation.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Noooooooooooooooo.
He is not dead, he is on vacation.

That's what you think. He's actually here, watching me type this message.

What, he said to me, he was going on vacation, needed a rest from my training.

Kun wins, I am a fan of his.

I am a fan of Dooku, he wins, he is more cooler.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I am a fan of Dooku, he wins, he is more cooler.

Dooku is too much of a poser. He lost to ROTS Anakin so easily.

Because Anakin by ROTS increased in power incredibly from the last meting with the Count, Count underestimated him, and ROTS Anakin would defeat anyone in saber combat by that time.

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Dooku is too much of a poser. He lost to ROTS Anakin so easily.

Dooku is not a poser. He is a gentleman, with charisma and elegance that nobody else in the SW Universe can compare to.

ROTS Anakin is uber. It was only fitting that Dooku be finally killed by the Chosen One, the Son of the Force, the one who was to become the most powerful force user the galaxy had ever seen. Hardly an embarrasment on Dooku's part.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Dooku is not a poser. He is a gentleman, with charisma and elegance that nobody else in the SW Unviverse can compare to.

ROTS Anakin is uber. It was only fitting that Dooku be finally killed by the Chosen One, the Son of the Force, the one who was to become the most powerful force user the galaxy had ever seen. Hardly an embarrasment on Dooku's part.



Great sig Rampant.

Here Makashi, in front of you, stands the legendary Dooku worshipper! RAMPANT OX!!!




.............

Thanks Count.

EDIT: Lol, I try my best.

Bows to Rampant ox in sign of respect.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
I am a fan of Dooku, he wins, he is more cooler.
Kun wins.

Dooku would psychologically destroy Kun, at he end Kun would kill himself, just to stop the mental torture.

Please save the inanity for the Plo Koon threads. We have enough pollution as is, we don't need more of it.

Ok.

Originally posted by Advent
Please save the inanity for the Plo Koon threads. We have enough pollution as is, we don't need more of it.
I agree...

cough-suckup-cough.