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Combatants:

Exar Kun before him demise in TSW, and Ulic Qel-Droma before being severed from the Force
vs.
Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi, both as of RotS

Setting/round:

1. Mustafar, the setting of the final duel of RotS
2. The grasslands of Naboo, like where Anakin and Padme roll around in AotC
3. The Senate Hall of the Old Republic, where Exar killed Vodo

Rounds:

1. Lightsaber duel only
2. Force battle only
3. Both lightsaber and all usages of the Force are allowed; an all out fight

Honestly, with Saber battles between these 4, you'd have Obiwan losing first in all instances. Yoda and Kun will stalemate while Uliq finishes Obiwan, or Kun tools Obiwan before Yoda finishes Ulic. I would say the same in force battles. Obiwan is the weakest link here and he'd be taken care of by either combatant before someone else dies.

Well, if you match it up, I don't think Obi-wan, in pure saber goes down that fast, due to his pure Soresu mastery, though he'd go down before too long. However, Yoda could finish Ulic off very quickly....on Mustafar, Yoda had a serious advantage, given his acrobatic abilities. In the force, Obi-wan's a massive weak link, but Yoda would probably be able to defeat Exar or Ulic there as well. all out., same issue.

All depends if Yoda can defeat his opponent before Obi-wan dies

Ulic's probably the best technical duelist here, and Exar Kun is pure pwnage. The sith win.

Yoda is NOT going to defeat Kun fast, if at ALL. It would be a stalemate on most occasions, and Ulic would indeed finish off Obiwan and gang up on Yoda, where Yoda dies.

Stalemate? Exar has no displayed the raw skill with a saber that Yoda has. And if Yoda faces Ulic, the fight'll end quite fast. And on Mustafar? The Sith won't be able to touch Yoda

what if it was yoda who pwned ulics ass and obi wan is still alive? This pretty much turns the tide doesnt it

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Stalemate? Exar has no displayed the raw skill with a saber that Yoda has. And if Yoda faces Ulic, the fight'll end quite fast. And on Mustafar? The Sith won't be able to touch Yoda


Besides being a saber prodigy and defeating his master as a padawan, being the best at the time and creating his own saber and style? No, I think he can hang with Yoda. And Yoda would indeed defeat Ulic after some time but nowhere near before Kun demolishes Obiwan. Ulic DID fight without using the force, and was Kun's equal before Kun created his double blade. In either case the Sith win more often than not.

Ulic's most likely as great a duelist as Yoda.
The dude was able to stalemate a powerful jedi who was being fueled by the darkside at the time, and this was after having been cut off from the force, and 20 years out of practice.

i thought you said yoda could beat exar in another thread?

lol, powerful Jedi. No, Ulic could be near Yoda's level for the simple fact that he was Kun's equal before Kun developed his new blade and style, and for the fact that he could stalemate an average Jedi without the force. That does speak volumes for him.

That whole 'defeating his master as a Padawan' detail's find of faulty. Again: When push comes to shove, we have Yoda doing quite a bit more with a saber than Kun has. 'Saber prodigy' describes a LOT of people in Sw, Kit Fisto on. He created his own saber style? Great, so'd Mace and Mace's Yoda's inferior. He defeated his master as a padawan? So? Mace created his own style as a padawan. He was the best of his time? Big deal, so were Revan, Bane and Yoda. Luke and Marka Ragnos too.

Again, Kun won't demolish Obi-wan quickly with a saber...Obi-wan has demonstrated the raw ability to block about sixteen strikes from four different sides per second.

And Yoda would defeat Ulic quite quickly, I don't see how that's up for debate

Lol at Sylvar being termed a 'powerful Jedi'....Ulic managed to hold off a thoughtless berserker.

And btw, Kun had about six months to perfect this new style of him and he hardly even used it in the comic. He swings the saber in battle a grand total of twice. That's hardly enough to gauge his skill with it

Originally posted by Lightsnake
That whole 'defeating his master as a Padawan' detail's find of faulty. Again: When push comes to shove, we have Yoda doing quite a bit more with a saber than Kun has. 'Saber prodigy' describes a LOT of people in Sw, Kit Fisto on. He created his own saber style? Great, so'd Mace and Mace's Yoda's inferior. He defeated his master as a padawan? So? Mace created his own style as a padawan. He was the best of his time? Big deal, so were Revan, Bane and Yoda. Luke and Marka Ragnos too.
Done more lightsnake? Or has more sources describing his life? You act as if more sources=more power. Where does it say Kit fisto was a saber prodigy? Kun was a saber prodigy, and yes created his own saber and style. Mace could arguably stalemate Yoda in saber combat too. And when Kun was at his peak, he absolutely tooled his former master.


So? Dooku demolished him within a few seconds. And Kun is arguably equal to or better than Dooku in saber combat, so yes I'd say he demolishes him.



Easily up for debate, considering Ulic=Kun before Kun developed new style, and Kun was already the top saber dog. So unless you can logically prove Yoda will tool Kun quickly, or at all(you can't), then Yoda and Ulic would battle far longer than Kun and Obiwan.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Done more lightsnake? Or has more sources describing his life? You act as if more sources=more power. Where does it say Kit fisto was a saber prodigy? Kun was a saber prodigy, and yes created his own saber and style. Mace could arguably stalemate Yoda in saber combat too. And when Kun was at his peak, he absolutely tooled his former master.
Mace has been defeated by Yoda, one of the two duelists to ever best him. Again: both those statements apply to Mace as well. And since Vodo was nothing compared to Yoda, that shouldn't be in issue at all.
And Kit Fisto is listed as one of the best saber duelists on Coruscant in the ROTS novelization and he's sure as hell a prodigy in the Cestus Deception.
Btw, Yoda had noticeably more experience and a much greater lifetime than Kun. Of course he has more going for him


Kun does not use Dooku's saber ability. Anakin is equal to or better than Dooku and Obi-wan managed to give him a run for it.



They were stalemating at that time, it wouldn't have continued that way.
Again, is there anything saying how incredible those two were compared to Mace and Yoda, at that point in time?

Sexy... what on Earth are you talking about?

There's nothing to indicate that Count Dooku would run all over Obi-Wan in a lightsaber fight. Obi-Wan's defense was enough that he was able to withstand Grievous's "twenty-strikes-per-second" hits. Dooku is certainly more skilled than Obi-Wan overall, but I thought it was quite plain that he could only take Obi-Wan out with the Force, easily. Since that's what he did in RotS.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Mace has been defeated by Yoda, one of the two duelists to ever best him. Again: both those statements apply to Mace as well. And since Vodo was nothing compared to Yoda, that shouldn't be in issue at all.
And Kit Fisto is listed as one of the best saber duelists on Coruscant in the ROTS novelization and he's sure as hell a prodigy in the Cestus Deception.
Btw, Yoda had noticeably more experience and a much greater lifetime than Kun. Of course he has more going for him
This experience wasn't good enough to beat a 60 year old Sith Lord apparently, so quantity=irrelevant. And do you understand the difference between being listed as a saber prodigy in your teens or early 20's, and trying to speculate that someone is a prodigy because of what he did? There's a huge difference, and wasn't Kit Fisto called a "B level Jedi" by Lucas? Mace would be a prodigy, Dooku, Sidious, Anakin, and Yoda. but Kit Fisto? Please.



Terrible argument considering Obiwan knew Anakin's moves inside and out, and you KNOW this so why through in something so ridiculous in attempt to justify yet another PT Jedi?





It wouldn't have continued this way? I'm glad you have the professional qualifications to gauge what was going to happen next. Unfortunately, it's useless in a debate, nor could it be considered logical speculation.

No.

A producer asked Lucas why "Mace brought the B-Team" to fight Sidious, and his response was: "You need to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor."

Meaning everybody else, prodigies or otherwise, simply didn't have the power to take on the Emperor other than Mace and Yoda.

ok.....

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
This experience wasn't good enough to beat a 60 year old Sith Lord apparently, so quantity=irrelevant. And do you understand the difference between being listed as a saber prodigy in your teens or early 20's, and trying to speculate that someone is a prodigy because of what he did? There's a huge difference, and wasn't Kit Fisto called a "B level Jedi" by Lucas? Mace would be a prodigy, Dooku, Sidious, Anakin, and Yoda. but Kit Fisto? Please.
That sixty year old Sith had devoted his entire sixty years to Sith training and was rather the 'Most powerful in history.'
Kun, apparently had little Jedi and Sith training.
And....no, Kit wasn't called that by Lucas. Someone commented on why the 'B-Team' was brought to fight Palp and Lucas said only Mace or Yoda could compete with him.





Obi-wan's own skill was keeping him alive there. Don't start, because even Mace considers Obi-wan one of the greatest living saber masters





Kun was the strongest of the two. Why else would they name HIM Dark Lord and not say 'fight it out', since the Sith apparently were fine with death duels when power was not determined.

Sure Mace does, yet your argument is still invalid because Obiwan knew every move Anakin had, which has no effect on Obiwan's overall skill.







Kun was stronger in the force no doubt, but at that moment they were equal in saber combat.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Sure Mace does, yet your argument is still invalid because Obiwan knew every move Anakin had, which has no effect on Obiwan's overall skill.
Even if you know someone's moves, it'll take skill to take them on.






For that moment.

No, not for the moment, they were described as equals in saber combat with neither man being able to get an advantage.

Neither could claim an advantage because they were both sword masters. They doesn't imply constant equilibrium

And you can't use your speculation as the main proponent of your argument. They were stalemating each other so at the very LEAST, they are equal swordsmen.

No, Lightsnake's right here, a stalemate doesn't equate to pure equality.

Unfortunately for you, you can't prove which one of them were better at that time, so it's just speculation. I guess by your logic, Anakin=Obiwan, Anakin=Dooku for the first 30 seconds, Mace=Sidious for the first few minutes. Catch my drift? You can't speculate in this case because you have no proof which is better.

Sexy: Even if there is a gap in skill, it doesn't mean someone will win automatically, or at all

Ok and we're back to square one where you are supposed to prove Kun is better than Ulic at that point in time.

I think the Ancients favoring Kun is a mark there

The ancients favoring Kun has nothing to do with his saber abilities, but his mastery of the force. Since when did the ancients care about sabers and not the force? Not a very good argument.

The Ancients seemed to settle their differences with big sword duels...

The ancients seem to also crown sith lords with incredible force abilities, go figure.

I'd personally go with Ulic, he actually seemed to consistently improve his saber abiltiies from that point onwards, whereas Exar only really concentrated on sith magic.

Yoda kills Exar after a very long fight. Now, whether or not Kenobi is worse in the lightsaber against Ulic doesn't mean shit. Considering how the setting for the lightsaber contest in Mustafar, Obi-Wan can very much likely stall the duel by also doing his acrobats and lava surfing as well. Yoda can find Kenobi and help him finish Ulic.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
Now, whether or not Kenobi is worse in the lightsaber against Ulic doesn't mean shit.

Obi-Wan Kenobi can't prolong fights just because the stage is set at Mustafar. There were several reasons as to why Obi-Wan could even last that long against Anakin, the main factor was that he knew him like the back of his hand (yet was still getting his ass kicked on a couple occasions).

Obi-Wan knows jack shit about Ulic Qel-Droma, if Ulic is the superior, it does matter here.

And Obi is the greatest master of Soresu, period. You forget by the same gesture, Anakin knew Obi as well

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And Obi is the greatest master of Soresu, period.

So? It doesn't mean he can make all duels on Mustafar last for nearly as long as he did with Anakin. Which was the point.



I don't believe I had a lapse of memory. I also don't recall me stating, or impying otherwise. But, like I said, the fact that they both knew each other that well would result in a protracted duel, no matter how you really look at it. To quote the RotS novelization:

"Blade-to-blade, they were identical. After thousands of hours in lightsaber sparring, they knew each other better than brothers, more intimately than lovers; they were complementary halves of a single warrior. "

If you think Soresu played a bigger part, I'd say you're mistaken.

As usual lightsnake, Obiwan's mastery of Soresu is irrelevant when he's facing superior saber duelists.

Well it's not really irrelevant... Did you perhaps mean insufficient?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
As usual lightsnake, Obiwan's mastery of Soresu is irrelevant when he's facing superior saber duelists.

How is that even implied by the current argument? Soresu didn't play a factor because Anakin and Obi Wan knew each other "more intimately then lovers" Now how does that imply Obi Wan's Soresu mastery is irrelevant against superior duelists, especially when he was able to defend blows from the likes of Grievous coming in at all angles simultaneously.

Lightsnake is saying that Obiwan can hold his own because he held his own against Anakin and because he's a soresu master. I'm saying the point is moot because he knew Anakin inside and out, and his soresu mastery is irrelevant when he's facing a superior duelist.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Lightsnake is saying that Obiwan can hold his own because he held his own against Anakin and because he's a soresu master. I'm saying the point is moot because he knew Anakin inside and out, and his soresu mastery is irrelevant when he's facing a superior duelist.

Um...how? If your referring to Dooku, Dooku had to use force powers to take Obi Wan out of the equation because he was being overwhelmed. And the only other time we see Obi Wan dueling someone of supposed "superior" skill then him (Grievous) he utterly tools him and defends from blows coming in on four angles at once, Obi Wan's Soresu mastery is FAR from irrelevant.

The Force duel is in the Sith's favor, as Kenobi's not incredibly strong with the Force and would get pwnd by eitehr Exar or Ulic (just like he was pwnd by Dooku). I think Exar could probably take Yoda with his amulents, if not he could hold him off till Ulic pwns Kenobi and then together they'd take Yoda.

Sabers is alot closer, Kun and Yoda could go either way, and Kenobi's strong point is his saber skills, he might be able to take out Ulic that way. I'm not sure about this one, it depends on the Ulic and Kenobi match I think.

All out I'd give to the Sith, either hold off Yoda for a while whiel the otehr defeats Kenobi quickly with the Force and then together they'd take Yoda.

So Sith in all of them except maybe sabers.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Um...how? If your referring to Dooku, Dooku had to use force powers to take Obi Wan out of the equation because he was being overwhelmed. And the only other time we see Obi Wan dueling someone of supposed "superior" skill then him (Grievous) he utterly tools him and defends from blows coming in on four angles at once, Obi Wan's Soresu mastery is FAR from irrelevant.

I guess you forgot all about the AOTC duel then. His mastery is irrelevant when he faces a superior duelist. For example, if he faced Mace, Yoda, or Sidious, his "mastery of Soresu" would be of no use to him as he would be sliced into pieces.

Originally posted by darthsith19
The Force duel is in the Sith's favor, as Kenobi's not incredibly strong with the Force and would get pwnd by eitehr Exar or Ulic (just like he was pwnd by Dooku). I think Exar could probably take Yoda with his amulents, if not he could hold him off till Ulic pwns Kenobi and then together they'd take Yoda.

Sabers is alot closer, Kun and Yoda could go either way, and Kenobi's strong point is his saber skills, he might be able to take out Ulic that way. I'm not sure about this one, it depends on the Ulic and Kenobi match I think.

All out I'd give to the Sith, either hold off Yoda for a while whiel the otehr defeats Kenobi quickly with the Force and then together they'd take Yoda.

So Sith in all of them except maybe sabers.

Darthsith, honestly, why do you always, ALWAYS favor the ancients, no matter what the confrontation?

Honestly, Obi-wan could play the waiting game while Yoda handles his opponent in anything except Force and even then, Yoda might defeat Ulic as fast

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Darthsith, honestly, why do you always, ALWAYS favor the ancients, no matter what the confrontation?

Honestly, Obi-wan could play the waiting game while Yoda handles his opponent in anything except Force and even then, Yoda might defeat Ulic as fast

Trust me lightsnake, you favor the PT Jedi a lot more than he favors the ancient sith. And you say "obiwan could do this this and that", but these hypothetical statements don't help the debate. I could just say "Kun decides enough is enough and unleashes his amulet blasts killing Yoda and Mace, the end". Not a very good way to debate is it.

Yeah, I don't see how Kenobi's going to draw out his duel with Ulic. You admitted Kenobi's a massive weak link with the Force. What's to stop Ulic from sintantly using the Force to toss him into the lava? And even you can't possibly think that Yoda can handle both Kun and Ulic, 2 on 1.

I'm not sure when Ulic demonstrated many abilities in the Force himself. With sabers, Kenobi'd hold his own, but with the force, Kenobi'd likely lose. However, switch it up and Ulic'd lose to Yoda just as fast

So again, Ulic stalemated Kun in a saber duel but somehow he's going to lose fast to Yoda? I hope you're talking about in a force duel and not saber duels.

Kenobi is not a liability with the Force, people. Dooku managed to pull off a very impressive combination attack on Obi-Wan that caught him off guard.

Kenobi's masterful use of Soresu and his strong defense is not going to get him pwned by Ulic at all.

Besides, Ulic is as good with Exar wielding only one blade. Had Kun dueled Qel-Droma with his double-bladed mastery, he would have surely won.

Kenobi can easily stall the duel.

Again, I highly doubt Ulic can stall any duel with Ulic. Ulic stalemated a Jedi without the force, so his lightsaber skills are exceptional.

Ulic stall with ulic? lol

yea, that's exactly what I meant. Thanks for picking up on it Myriam-Webster.

What the heck happened to my post? This is gay.

I was being on-topic, sheesh. It's a feat of Anakin's that has been mentioned by Advent in this topic and I was simply pointing out it's more demonstrative of idiocy than anything else.

The fact that this fight has 3 different rules for 3 different scenarios makes it confusing. You have to analyze fighting in 3 locations and how saber combat would work in those situations and then there's 2 where no sabers are allowed and only The Force... iT'S WEIRD.

iI'm still not really convinced Exar is a better swordsman than even Dooku and Dooku is below Yoda.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
I guess you forgot all about the AOTC duel then. His mastery is irrelevant when he faces a superior duelist. For example, if he faced Mace, Yoda, or Sidious, his "mastery of Soresu" would be of no use to him as he would be sliced into pieces.


So whats your point...his AOTC duel when his mastery of the form was not complete, is in refrence to his ROTS self? Which this duel is apparently about, sorry not happeneing. I guess by your logic Anakin sucks because in AOTC he got owned by Dooku. And then we have Mace (whom you listed) as saying that Obi Wans raw skill and mastery trumps his own, making him the best suited for dealing with Grevious. And for your argument to even be slightly correct you'd have to assume that Ulic is on the level of Mace, Sidious, and Yoda in terms of dueling which you've yet to do.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Again, I highly doubt Ulic can stall any duel with Ulic. Ulic stalemated a Jedi without the force, so his lightsaber skills are exceptional.

And for that to be impressive you;d have to prove that Sylvar is worth a shit as a Jedi. You;d have to prove she has improved beyond getting owned as a padawan by Exar Kun, you'd then have to prove she has improved beyond being of such little insignificance that Exar didn't even bother with her. BTW killing bugs doesn't count.

It's irrelevant how good Sylvar was? Even if she was an average Jedi, she still had the force, while Ulic didn't. That's like a normal human being able to block blaster bolts without the force.

Boba Fett?

And its not irrelevant, Ulic still was a Jedi, a rather good one at that even though losing the force, he still had retained knowledge of how to fight with a saber, even though he doesn't have the force saying "move here" and even still its not like he needs all that much skill dealing with a Berserker whos just blindly charging showing no skill. Sylvar blew.

You're not understanding. Without the "force" to guide him, he would be as useful with a lightsaber as that tool who shot him. Sylvar was an average Jedi and he STALEMATED her in saber combat, without any use of the force. That is indeed an accomplishment and it speaks volumes about his saber abilities.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
You're not understanding. Without the "force" to guide him, he would be as useful with a lightsaber as that tool who shot him. Sylvar was an average Jedi and he STALEMATED her in saber combat, without any use of the force. That is indeed an accomplishment and it speaks volumes about his saber abilities.


See now you can't prove that. Now I know your exaggerating the "he would be as useful with a lightsaber as that tool who shot him." because that guy was out of shape, fat, had no previous knowledge at all. Now, Ulic who is for is age still in tremendous shape, was a previously a very powerful Jedi, and had trained his entire life in saber combat, now you think just because he lost the force all of his saber knowledge goes out the window? Now admittedly as I said he doesn't have the "look here" "move here" that the force aids with, but its hardly needed when your simply dodging and defending STRAIGHT FOREWORD attacks from some bum showing NO SKILL at all. Now I could understand if he was dueling someone who was flipping, using skill, and not just charging. But he wasn't it was shit stain Sylvar.

Ulic'll lose fast to Yoda in most scenarios, but the Force sinches i.

And Ulic held off an average Jedi who was out of her mind. He also spent most of the fight fleeing from her.

Key term, Ulic held off an average Jedi. She had the force, he didn't, yet he held her off, therefore he is somewhat exceptional at saber combat.

Ok, you guys are crazy, Sylvar wasn't just an average jedi, she was a jedi master, one of the champions and war heroes of the Sith War and she has many feats backing up that she was exceptional; off the top of my head, owning multiple (at least three) strong Massasi warriors in seconds with just her bare hands, sneaking up on Oss Wilum and knocking him out with the hilt of her lightsaber, and defeating Exar Kun as a padawan.

hasn't Advent ripped you to pieces regarding this? Massassi warriors couldn't even take a planet defended by four Jedi, how incredible.

And wow, Oss Willum, focused on a battle in a situaion that anyone could've taken advantage of!

and beating Exar as a padawan? Oh, right, Luke must've won his first fight against Vader by hitting his shoulder...

Sylvar was a pretty sad excuse for a Jedi

Being owned by the antediluvian 24/7 didn't stop you from coming up with Sidious arguments, and Advent never owned me, it was probably the best I ever did against her.



Elaborate, I have no clue what you're talking about.



Focused? Please, all he was doing was casually watching events unfold. And precognition, much?



It was a perfectly valid win against Exar, don't be ridiculous. The difference here is that Vader wasn't going full out against Luke.



Hardly, I'd put her above most PT jedi.

You'll notice that bringing up arguments that have nothing to do with this don't help you...especially as quite a few of the Antediluvians have been convinced.

Massassi couldn't take Coruscant defended by four Jedi in the Hyperspace war. WOW!
Oss Willum was the one controlling the Hsiss, remember?
and in your delusional little world, do 'valid wins' consist of getting your ass tossed to the ground while someone has to stop the guy from cutting you in half.

And Sylvar above most PT Jedi? She was a loser in her time.

Originally posted by The Sith'ari
Ok, you guys are crazy, Sylvar wasn't just an average jedi, she was a jedi master, one of the champions and war heroes of the Sith War and she has many feats backing up that she was exceptional; off the top of my head, owning multiple (at least three) strong Massasi warriors in seconds with just her bare hands, sneaking up on Oss Wilum and knocking him out with the hilt of her lightsaber, and defeating Exar Kun as a padawan.


R U SERIOUS? Sylvar was a joke, since when does beating random Massasi = strong? Didn't Cay beat those same ones? And really as said in the Hyperspace Wars they couldn't take a planet with FOUR Jedi defending it, there was an ARMY of them. sneaking up on Oss Wilum and knocking him out with the hilt of her lightsaber, you just showed how shitty that was, "Oh great she can sneak well!!" When did she beat Kun? By scratching him on the face? LOL.

I'm starting to think Nebaris is a mental nutcase. Yea Nebaris, SYLVAR RULES!! Jk, average Jedi at best, tool.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
It's irrelevant how good Sylvar was? Even if she was an average Jedi, she still had the force, while Ulic didn't. That's like a normal human being able to block blaster bolts without the force.

http://www.swtimeline.ru/?comics=128&page=011

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

Anyway, why is Ulic anything special in the force? At least Exar has used his amulet blasts and can hide behind that argument.

He unleashed a considerable amount of dark side energy considering he has a talisman.

Ok, i think the point here is: can yoda take down ullic or exar before obi being killed. If yoda kills one of them until obi-wan being killed, i think he can beat the other one after a tough fight, however, against the 2 of you, i think he would lose.

The fight would be like this: while ulic fights yoda, exar fights obi-wan. After a while exar kills obi-wan with a lightsaber strike/dark side power. When yoda sees this he uses the force to push back ullic and knock him out. Yoda and exar engages in a fight. After a while, exar is losing ground and yoda is getting the upper hand, however, before yoda could finish exar, he is hit by a force power: ullic is back. Exar joins with ullic and after some extra minuts, yoda is killed, probably not before hurting one of them.

By the way, stop with the bullshit "Exar wins due to his amulet". This is the same i saying that i can beat myke tyson since i bring a shotgun with me...