The Real War: Cristianity vS. Islam

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.



FistOfThe North
It's what, I think, consists of the current war on terror.

Fishy
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
It's what, I think, consists of the current war on terror.

The war on terror is a bullshit war, the reasons are not religious. Religion just helps to get certain people drawn into the war.

Shakyamunison
The world would be better off without ether of those religions. stick out tongue

debbiejo
When did the Borg get here?? eek!

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by debbiejo
When did the Borg get here?? eek!

There is a rock inside of the black thing.

muslimscholar
its more like islam vs zionism christians are just backing them up

BobbyD
Originally posted by muslimscholar
its more like islam vs zionism christians are just backing them up

Zionism?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by BobbyD
Zionism?

Jews.

BobbyD
Ahhhh.

BobbyD
Originally posted by muslimscholar
its more like islam vs zionism

Muslimscholar, educate me a bit, please.......

Where did the whole hatred for the Jews and Muslims (of each other)begin or come into play? confused

Nellinator
Originally posted by BobbyD
Zionism?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Jews.
Nope. Zionism is a belief and support of the refounded nation of Israel. Zionism believes that Israel was promised to the Jewish people and that it is their birthright. Mount Zion from which it is derived is the location of Jerusalem.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Nellinator
Nope. Zionism is a belief and support of the refounded nation of Israel. Zionism believes that Israel was promised to the Jewish people and that it is their birthright. Mount Zion from which it is derived is the location of Jerusalem.

Then who (which religious group) does this apply to?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
Nope. Zionism is a belief and support of the refounded nation of Israel. Zionism believes that Israel was promised to the Jewish people and that it is their birthright. Mount Zion from which it is derived is the location of Jerusalem.

Like BobbyD would understand that... eek! laughing out loud

BobbyD
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Like BobbyD would understand that... eek! laughing out loud

laughing out loud

-tough crowd here.

Nellinator
Originally posted by BobbyD
Then who (which religious group) does this apply to?
It applies to anyone who supports Israel as a nation. Since all Americans pay taxes that help Israel many Muslims see all of America as Zionist. Zionism is usually attached to Jews though.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Like BobbyD would understand that... eek! laughing out loud
laughing

BobbyD
Originally posted by Nellinator
It applies to anyone who supports Israel as a nation. Since all Americans pay taxes that help Israel many Muslims see all of America as Zionist. Zionism is usually attached to Jews though.

laughing

Got it. Thanks, Nelli.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Nellinator
It applies to anyone who supports Israel as a nation. Since all Americans pay taxes that help Israel many Muslims see all of America as Zionist. Zionism is usually attached to Jews though.

laughing

Shuush.



















stick out tongue

BobbyD
Originally posted by BobbyD
Muslimscholar, educate me a bit, please.......

Where did the whole hatred for the Jews and Muslims (of each other)begin or come into play? confused

I think I've been flat out ignored. confused sad

Nellinator
Originally posted by BobbyD
Where did the whole hatred for the Jews and Muslims (of each other)begin or come into play? confused
After the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70AD(?), the Jews were dispersed to many different parts of the world, but mostly to Europe. After Mohammed and the spread of Islam, most of the Middle East, including the land that is now Israel became Muslim. There were nine crusades between 1095-1291 that attempted to remove Muslim rule from Israel and Jerusalem, but in 1291, the last Christian rule was removed from the Middle East. The Ottoman Empire came into possession of Israel and held it until 1917 when the Ottoman Empire was defeated and broken into many nations by the British Empire. This triggered the immigration of the Jews to Israel, which the British had promised to both the Palestinians and the Jews. However, the first migration of Jews was not that large and they only possessed land in the coastal regions, mostly around Tel-Aviv. After WWII, many Jews felt the need for a unified nation of Jewish people to prevent anything like the Holocaust happening to them again and a massive influx of Jewish people came to Israel. The Palestians resisted this, so the Jews resorted to terrorist tactics to drive them out (yes the Jews started terrorism in the Middle East). The nation of Israel was refounded in 1948. The Jews pushed the Palestinians out of much of Israel and had possession of west Jeruslam by 1949. The Muslim nations surrounding Israel attacked Israel in unison, but lost and Israel actually gained the rest of Israel. The Muslim people beleive that the land belongs to the Palestinians because they were there before the Jews, but Zionists believe it belongs to the Jews because it is their promised land. Adding to the tension is the fact that Jerusalem is the holiest place and home of the Temple for the Jews and the third most holy place for the Muslims and home of the Dome of the Rock where Mohammed is said to have ascended to heaven.

^
=
hatred

BobbyD
Originally posted by Nellinator
After the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans in 70AD(?), the Jews were dispersed to many different parts of the world, but mostly to Europe. After Mohammed and the spread of Islam, most of the Middle East, including the land that is now Israel became Muslim. There were nine crusades between 1095-1291 that attempted to remove Muslim rule from Israel and Jerusalem, but in 1291, the last Christian rule was removed from the Middle East. The Ottoman Empire came into possession of Israel and held it until 1917 when the Ottoman Empire was defeated and broken into many nations by the British Empire. This triggered the immigration of the Jews to Israel, which the British had promised to both the Palestinians and the Jews. However, the first migration of Jews was not that large and they only possessed land in the coastal regions, mostly around Tel-Aviv. After WWII, many Jews felt the need for a unified nation of Jewish people to prevent anything like the Holocaust happening to them again and a massive influx of Jewish people came to Israel. The Palestians resisted this, so the Jews resorted to terrorist tactics to drive them out (yes the Jews started terrorism in the Middle East). The nation of Israel was refounded in 1948. The Jews pushed the Palestinians out of much of Israel and had possession of west Jeruslam by 1949. The Muslim nations surrounding Israel attacked Israel in unison, but lost and Israel actually gained the rest of Israel. The Muslim people beleive that the land belongs to the Palestinians because they were there before the Jews, but Zionists believe it belongs to the Jews because it is their promised land. Adding to the tension is the fact that Jerusalem is the holiest place and home of the Temple for the Jews and the third most holy place for the Muslims and home of the Dome of the Rock where Mohammed is said to have ascended to heaven.

^
=
hatred

That's great. But, I was expecting a response from Muslimscholar. I have Jewish friends, and wanted a Muslim's point of view.

Was it something I said? Did I offend him? confused

quickshot
Anybody here feel that this isn't a holy war as these men are not martyrs they're murderers and they should practice greater jihad instead of just using the lowest form of the lesser

BobbyD
Originally posted by quickshot
Anybody here feel that this isn't a holy war as these men are not martyrs they're murderers and they should practice greater jihad instead of just using the lowest form of the lesser

I wouldn't go far. Frommy understanding, some Muslims take the interpretation of their faith too literally, and as such ruin it for those who take it at face value, and are generally a peaceful people who go about their lives with Allah.

The same can be said for Christians...taking it too literally, etc, etc.

debbiejo
Holy War is just an excuse for one Religion or people to get their way......Nothing more than that. And it's all based on Hate of those that are not Muslim or those that oppose them. People have the right to back up which ever country they chose, it's called democracy. Geez they don't even treat their women right.....

Magee
Fuk teh muslims. lookaround

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Magee
Fuk teh muslims. lookaround

There's really no need to antagonize the only muslim on KMC dude

debbiejo
Yeah every time we do that..........We lose our only Muslim.........It's happened before.........

Nellinator
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
There's really no need to antagonize the only muslim on KMC dude
Actually there are two. Fatima and muslimscholar. Three if you count silverheart.

Lord Urizen
Nell, Muslimscholar claims the Quran is truly God's word, while the Bible is just the words of men...

How do you feel about this ? Are you laughing right now ?

Nellinator
What are you fishing for? And do I laugh ever? I'm a Christian, we don't have fun. stick out tongue

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
What are you fishing for? And do I laugh ever? I'm a Christian, we don't have fun. stick out tongue


I know, but you should try having fun.



Christians and Muslims seem to be so sexually frustrated because of the constraint on sexuality...

In my religion, the Orgasmism, celebacy is an emormous sin, because it restricts the natural flow of Orgasm.


My religion is more fun than yours stick out tongue


Anways, you didn't answer my question...what do you think of Muslimscholar calling the Bible the false doctrine, while he claims his Quran is the true word of God ?




Because I think ur both full of crap....both your books are false testiments.

The only true word of God are the Holy Scriptures of the Orgasmism.


ALL PRAISE ORGASM !

King Kandy
SHUT UP ABOUT THE F*CKING ORGASM!!!

It wasn't funny then, and it isn't funny now.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator
Actually there are two. Fatima and muslimscholar. Three if you count silverheart.

acursed facts foiled agian!

*sweeps cape around self and disappears*

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by King Kandy
SHUT UP ABOUT THE F*CKING ORGASM!!!

It wasn't funny then, and it isn't funny now.





I am not joking....it is my Faith, and I'd ask you to be more respectful towards the beleifs of others smile

Nellinator
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I know, but you should try having fun.



Christians and Muslims seem to be so sexually frustrated because of the constraint on sexuality...

In my religion, the Orgasmism, celebacy is an emormous sin, because it restricts the natural flow of Orgasm.


My religion is more fun than yours stick out tongue


Anways, you didn't answer my question...what do you think of Muslimscholar calling the Bible the false doctrine, while he claims his Quran is the true word of God ?




Because I think ur both full of crap....both your books are false testiments.

The only true word of God are the Holy Scriptures of the Orgasmism.


ALL PRAISE ORGASM !
I can honestly say that I am not sexually frustrated.

I think he is wrong, but I think that should have been obvious. Simply said, the Bible has a lot going for its historical accuracy while the Quran is suspect at certain parts. He believes it is full of contradictions, though I suspect he would have trouble naming one, just like I doubt he understands the history behind the hatred between Muslims and Jews. I would also argue that the Bible does not have contradictions and have done so in the past. I actually quite beautifully defeated one that debbiejo thought she would bring up (the perceived discrepancy between the parallel accounts of 1 Chronicles 21:1 and 2 Samuel 24:6 which are in fact in perfect unison).

I seriously question your ability as a religious leader when you cannot spell testament correctly. Why should anyone believe someone that can't spell?
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
acursed facts foiled agian!

*sweeps cape around self and disappears*
laughing

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by King Kandy
SHUT UP ABOUT THE F*CKING ORGASM!!!

It wasn't funny then, and it isn't funny now.

laughing He has a one track mind.

debbiejo
lil B needs to be here...........

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
I seriously question your ability as a religious leader when you cannot spell testament correctly. Why should anyone believe someone that can't spell?

laughing



I am not a religious leader...nor have I ever claimed to be.


I just preach truth.....and if i mispell one word, geez, forgive me... roll eyes (sarcastic)

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
forgive me... roll eyes (sarcastic)

NEVER stick out tongue

Up In Flames
I'll tell you how the war on earth will end:

God Wins!

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Up In Flames
I'll tell you how the war on earth will end:

God Wins!



A Loving Supreme Being has no need for war....that is a contradiction in itself.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I am not a religious leader...nor have I ever claimed to be.


I just preach truth.....and if i mispell one word, geez, forgive me... roll eyes (sarcastic)
Are you not the prophet of Orgasmism?

It wouldn't be very Christian of me not too. You are forgiven, but remember that you only have 489 left so don't push it too far.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Are you not the prophet of Orgasmism?

It wouldn't be very Christian of me not too. You are forgiven, but remember that you only have 489 left so don't push it too far.



Lord Urizen is a prophet of Orgasmism, as was Orgy Kalima....Lord Urizen existed in the early 400-500's B.C. I name myself after this Holy Prophet.

Orgy Kalima was an Egyptian Princess who dedicated her life to Orgasm....she founded the way, and in herself she found truth....literally....

Nellinator
Ah, it is all clear now.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by BobbyD
Muslimscholar, educate me a bit, please.......

Where did the whole hatred for the Jews and Muslims (of each other)begin or come into play? confused

I might not be MuslimScholar, but I'll step in and share my perspective.

The hatred of Jews is a result of the skewing of the Islamic religions by fundamentalists. Fundamentalists often times know very little about their own religion. It's history, it's teachings, it's origin, etc. In the middle east, a lot of fundamentalism is a direct result of the industrial revolution. A 'revolution" that had to be fueled by oil. The western colonization of the region resulted in a huge backlash of islamic fundamentalism.

If you take the time to read books by authors like Karen Armstrong, you'll see the evidence for such an argument. But Islam is NOT a violent religion. But the corruption of Islam didn't start with the industrial revolution. It started as soon as Mohammad was gone. Just as happened with Christianity. One need only go back to the events of the barbary pirates to see that much.

Islam is an extension of judaism...just like christianity. Mohammad was said to have interacted with Jesus and Moses in one of his trips through the afterlife. If he'd known about Buddha, he likely would have been inculded in that myth. I think a lot of muslims feel that just because Mohammad was a general that his whole life was a reflection of militant radicalism. But the religion he founded was based on acceptance of other religions and peoples. Despite the teachings of islam that cite how the middle east was meant to belong to muslims, Mohammad NEVER called for violence against the innocent. In fact he condemned it...despite their religious beliefs or ethnicity.

As for Israel, I believe that the Palastinians have every right to be pissed. They've been unilaterally forced off the land that was theirs. But if they were true adherents to their own religion, then they wouldn't respond with violence.

And jihad doesn't mean holy war. It means "struggle". It's just another example of the bastardization of Islam.

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I might not be MuslimScholar, but I'll step in and share my perspective.

The hatred of Jews is a result of the skewing of the Islamic religions by fundamentalists. Fundamentalists often times know very little about their own religion. It's history, it's teachings, it's origin, etc. In the middle east, a lot of fundamentalism is a direct result of the industrial revolution. A 'revolution" that had to be fueled by oil. The western colonization of the region resulted in a huge backlash of islamic fundamentalism.

If you take the time to read books by authors like Karen Armstrong, you'll see the evidence for such an argument. But Islam is NOT a violent religion. But the corruption of Islam didn't start with the industrial revolution. It started as soon as Mohammad was gone. Just as happened with Christianity. One need only go back to the events of the barbary pirates to see that much.

Islam is an extension of judaism...just like christianity. Mohammad was said to have interacted with Jesus and Moses in one of his trips through the afterlife. If he'd known about Buddha, he likely would have been inculded in that myth. I think a lot of muslims feel that just because Mohammad was a general that his whole life was a reflection of militant radicalism. But the religion he founded was based on acceptance of other religions and peoples. Despite the teachings of islam that cite how the middle east was meant to belong to muslims, Mohammad NEVER called for violence against the innocent. In fact he condemned it...despite their religious beliefs or ethnicity.

As for Israel, I believe that the Palastinians have every right to be pissed. They've been unilaterally forced off the land that was theirs. But if they were true adherents to their own religion, then they wouldn't respond with violence.

And jihad doesn't mean holy war. It means "struggle". It's just another example of the bastardization of Islam.

Read books by Kare Armstrong?
Maybe, if you have no brain of your own, and you like being told what to think.


No, DO NOT read books by an useful idiot Karen Armstrong, instead, read the Quran and the original history of Muhammad.
Not the history written by today's unscrupulous apologists of Islam but the history written by the early historians.
Read the book of Al Waqidi, Ibn Ishaq and Al Tabari's.

Noone needs some dumbass of a journalist to pour some more politically correct propaganda into western mind, where majority of people don't know the basic history of Islam.

Islam IS a violent religion. Islam is an Muhammad's ambition desguised as religion.
Founder of Islam, tortured, killed, raped, had sex with 9 year old girl when he was 54.
Muhammad was a mass murder, ruthless torturer, a misogynist, a thief and plunderer, terrorist, narcissist and a lecher.

You know nothning of Muhammad, but what Karen Armstrong told you.
Muhammad's Allah called on for murder of infidels. ''do not take for friends those who do not believe''

If Muhammad did not kill innocent or call for the murder of innocent, then explain to me the barbaric murder of 600-900 Jewish men and boys by Muhammad himself.
He dug out a trench in the market, let them kneel and chop off all their heads. Himself.

As soon as Jewish boy got a pubic hair, he was beheaded. Muhammad himself said that he will expell All Jews from Arabian peninsula, as comanded by Allah, and the the only thing left in Aabia will be the religion of Allah.

What about the famous tortue of a Rabi, leader of Qurayza if im not mistaken, ordered by Muhammad himself to tell him where the Jewish gold and treasure is?
Rabi's eyes were put out and his feet and hands chopped off and he was left to bleed to death.

Jawairiyah, Rayhanah and Safiyah were beautiful young girls who were captured when Muhammad raided the tribes of Banu al-Mustaliq, Qurayza (the tribe where all men were beheaded at the market) and Nadir. The prophet slew their husbands, fathers and their male relatives and let his men rape them while he kept the prettiest for himself and raped her in the same day while they were still in the shock of the loss of their loved ones.


You are wrong - fundamentalists, as you call them, do not bastardise or shame Islam.
They are the ones who are following the TRUE Islam. The Islam Muhammad practiced, and preached.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
laughing He has a one track mind.

So do I.

embarrasment

BobbyD
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I might not be MuslimScholar, but I'll step in and share my perspective.

The hatred of Jews is a result of the skewing of the Islamic religions by fundamentalists. Fundamentalists often times know very little about their own religion. It's history, it's teachings, it's origin, etc. In the middle east, a lot of fundamentalism is a direct result of the industrial revolution. A 'revolution" that had to be fueled by oil. The western colonization of the region resulted in a huge backlash of islamic fundamentalism.

If you take the time to read books by authors like Karen Armstrong, you'll see the evidence for such an argument. But Islam is NOT a violent religion. But the corruption of Islam didn't start with the industrial revolution. It started as soon as Mohammad was gone. Just as happened with Christianity. One need only go back to the events of the barbary pirates to see that much.

Islam is an extension of judaism...just like christianity. Mohammad was said to have interacted with Jesus and Moses in one of his trips through the afterlife. If he'd known about Buddha, he likely would have been inculded in that myth. I think a lot of muslims feel that just because Mohammad was a general that his whole life was a reflection of militant radicalism. But the religion he founded was based on acceptance of other religions and peoples. Despite the teachings of islam that cite how the middle east was meant to belong to muslims, Mohammad NEVER called for violence against the innocent. In fact he condemned it...despite their religious beliefs or ethnicity.

As for Israel, I believe that the Palastinians have every right to be pissed. They've been unilaterally forced off the land that was theirs. But if they were true adherents to their own religion, then they wouldn't respond with violence.

And jihad doesn't mean holy war. It means "struggle". It's just another example of the bastardization of Islam.

Thank you for your insightful words.

smile

BobbyD
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Read books by Kare Armstrong?
Maybe, if you have no brain of your own, and you like being told what to think.


No, DO NOT read books by an useful idiot Karen Armstrong, instead, read the Quran and the original history of Muhammad.
Not the history written by today's unscrupulous apologists of Islam but the history written by the early historians.
Read the book of Al Waqidi, Ibn Ishaq and Al Tabari's.

Noone needs some dumbass of a journalist to pour some more politically correct propaganda into western mind, where majority of people don't know the basic history of Islam.

Islam IS a violent religion. Islam is an Muhammad's ambition desguised as religion.
Founder of Islam, tortured, killed, raped, had sex with 9 year old girl when he was 54.
Muhammad was a mass murder, ruthless torturer, a misogynist, a thief and plunderer, terrorist, narcissist and a lecher.

You know nothning of Muhammad, but what Karen Armstrong told you.
Muhammad's Allah called on for murder of infidels. ''do not take for friends those who do not believe''

If Muhammad did not kill innocent or call for the murder of innocent, then explain to me the barbaric murder of 600-900 Jewish men and boys by Muhammad himself.
He dug out a trench in the market, let them kneel and chop off all their heads. Himself.

As soon as Jewish boy got a pubic hair, he was beheaded. Muhammad himself said that he will expell All Jews from Arabian peninsula, as comanded by Allah, and the the only thing left in Aabia will be the religion of Allah.

What about the famous tortue of a Rabi, leader of Qurayza if im not mistaken, ordered by Muhammad himself to tell him where the Jewish gold and treasure is?
Rabi's eyes were put out and his feet and hands chopped off and he was left to bleed to death.

Jawairiyah, Rayhanah and Safiyah were beautiful young girls who were captured when Muhammad raided the tribes of Banu al-Mustaliq, Qurayza (the tribe where all men were beheaded at the market) and Nadir. The prophet slew their husbands, fathers and their male relatives and let his men rape them while he kept the prettiest for himself and raped her in the same day while they were still in the shock of the loss of their loved ones.


You are wrong - fundamentalists, as you call them, do not bastardise or shame Islam.
They are the ones who are following the TRUE Islam. The Islam Muhammad practiced, and preached.

Who to believe? confused

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by BobbyD
So do I.

embarrasment

Don't we all... embarrasment

debbiejo
The Muslims have a very long history and now it has even gotten more political and also very entangled, but in saying this, the Christians also have their hands in the pot too.

BobbyD
Originally posted by debbiejo
The Muslims have a very long history and now it has even gotten more political and also very entangled, but in saying this, the Christians also have their hands in the pot too.

Yeah, but mine is only for grabbing cookies.

big grin

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by BobbyD
Yeah, but mine is only for grabbing cookies.

big grin

What is for grabbing cookies, your hand or pot? laughing

muslimscholar
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Read books by Kare Armstrong?
Maybe, if you have no brain of your own, and you like being told what to think.


No, DO NOT read books by an useful idiot Karen Armstrong, instead, read the Quran and the original history of Muhammad.
Not the history written by today's unscrupulous apologists of Islam but the history written by the early historians.
Read the book of Al Waqidi, Ibn Ishaq and Al Tabari's.

Noone needs some dumbass of a journalist to pour some more politically correct propaganda into western mind, where majority of people don't know the basic history of Islam.

Islam IS a violent religion. Islam is an Muhammad's ambition desguised as religion.
Founder of Islam, tortured, killed, raped, had sex with 9 year old girl when he was 54.
Muhammad was a mass murder, ruthless torturer, a misogynist, a thief and plunderer, terrorist, narcissist and a lecher.

You know nothning of Muhammad, but what Karen Armstrong told you.
Muhammad's Allah called on for murder of infidels. ''do not take for friends those who do not believe''

If Muhammad did not kill innocent or call for the murder of innocent, then explain to me the barbaric murder of 600-900 Jewish men and boys by Muhammad himself.
He dug out a trench in the market, let them kneel and chop off all their heads. Himself.

As soon as Jewish boy got a pubic hair, he was beheaded. Muhammad himself said that he will expell All Jews from Arabian peninsula, as comanded by Allah, and the the only thing left in Aabia will be the religion of Allah.

What about the famous tortue of a Rabi, leader of Qurayza if im not mistaken, ordered by Muhammad himself to tell him where the Jewish gold and treasure is?
Rabi's eyes were put out and his feet and hands chopped off and he was left to bleed to death.

Jawairiyah, Rayhanah and Safiyah were beautiful young girls who were captured when Muhammad raided the tribes of Banu al-Mustaliq, Qurayza (the tribe where all men were beheaded at the market) and Nadir. The prophet slew their husbands, fathers and their male relatives and let his men rape them while he kept the prettiest for himself and raped her in the same day while they were still in the shock of the loss of their loved ones.


You are wrong - fundamentalists, as you call them, do not bastardise or shame Islam.
They are the ones who are following the TRUE Islam. The Islam Muhammad practiced, and preached.

islam is vilont with those who want to be vilont the jews betrayed the muslims fought against them they killed many prohets and tried to kill jesus and he did not hav sex with a 9 year old u chat so much shit wen u talk like this people who havent read a bout islam get confused and raping i islam is a big sin so stop chatting a whole load of shit

muslimscholar
Originally posted by lil bitchiness

If Muhammad did not kill innocent or call for the murder of innocent, then explain to me the barbaric murder of 600-900 Jewish men and boys by Muhammad himself.
He dug out a trench in the market, let them kneel and chop off all their heads. Himself.



muhammed in his whole life never killed anyone with his own hands never so why lie why confuse people with all ur shit and the killing of the jews was because of a battle and they where all slain

a jewish women tried to kill the prophet by poisoning him but god saved him

BobbyD
Originally posted by muslimscholar
islam is vilont with those who want to be vilont the jews betrayed the muslims fought against them they killed many prohets and tried to kill jesus and he did not hav sex with a 9 year old u chat so much shit wen u talk like this people who havent read a bout islam get confused and raping i islam is a big sin so stop chatting a whole load of shit



muhammed in his whole life never killed anyone with his own hands never so why lie why confuse people with all ur shit and the killing of the jews was because of a battle and they where all slain

a jewish women tried to kill the prophet by poisoning him but god saved him



Muslimscholar, I don't know you, nor have you offended me by anything you have ever said. But please forgive me when I say that you come across a touch abrasive.

For those that are ignorant about Islam and your faith, and how passionate you and your fellow brothers are about it, why don't you take an opportunity to speak nicely/calmly and inform/educate us about what Islam is and its good points. I'm not attacking you, but my plea is that those who are good hearted Muslims (such as yourself) also can be respected by those of other faiths. How can the rest of the ignorant world see the nice people of Islam for what they're worth, when you and a lot of your kind respond like you do above?

I may have a narrow scope, but this is how I think a lot of the Western world perceives you and your kind, even if it is wrongly so.

Alfheim
Originally posted by muslimscholar
islam is vilont with those who want to be vilont the jews betrayed the muslims fought against them they killed many prohets and tried to kill jesus and he did not hav sex with a 9 year old u chat so much shit wen u talk like this people who havent read a bout islam get confused and raping i islam is a big sin so stop chatting a whole load of shit

Well you dont listen to anybody do you. You just belive what you want to believe.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alfheim
Well you dont listen to anybody do you. You just belive what you want to believe.

No one listens on this forum... I know, I have my speakers turned all the way down. laughing out loud

BobbyD
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No one listens on this forum... I know, I have my speakers turned all the way down. laughing out loud

What did you say? confused

Lord Urizen
Whether you are Christian or Muslim does not determine how violent or non violent a person you are...


If my father is an assassin, does that mean I am also a violent killer like him ?

No...


so just because you are part of the Christian or Muslim organization does not mean you inherit the violent tendencies of your spiritual ancestors.


This generalization HAS TO STOP


I already cut it out....I know for a fact that not all Christians are hateful, violent bigots....in fact, most Christians actually try thier best to be better people.

Many of them are just misguided and ignorant to certain truths...that's all.


The Individual intepretation of Faith matters more than the general Faith itself.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Whether you are Christian or Muslim does not determine how violent or non violent a person you are...


If my father is an assassin, does that mean I am also a violent killer like him ?

No...


so just because you are part of the Christian or Muslim organization does not mean you inherit the violent tendencies of your spiritual ancestors.


This generalization HAS TO STOP


I already cut it out....I know for a fact that not all Christians are hateful, violent bigots....in fact, most Christians actually try thier best to be better people.

Many of them are just misguided and ignorant to certain truths...that's all.


The Individual intepretation of Faith matters more than the general Faith itself.

Yea, that's the spirit. Preach it, brother. big grin

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by BobbyD
Yea, that's the spirit. Preach it, brother. big grin


I decided to stop being hypocritical...


If I constantly point out the faults of flawed Christians and Muslims, all that would happen is they would respond with anger, and it would be a vicious argument back and forth.


If I want respect, I must give it first.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I decided to stop being hypocritical...


If I constantly point out the faults of flawed Christians and Muslims, all that would happen is they would respond with anger, and it would be a vicious argument back and forth.


If I want respect, I must give it first.

Ding! Ding! Ding!


clapping



Tell him what he's won, Bob:


beer

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by BobbyD
Ding! Ding! Ding!


clapping



Tell him what he's won, Bob:


beer

Hey! I've been respectful forever, and I never got a beer.crybaby

Lord Urizen
OMG IS THAT JESUS JUICE ? droolio

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Hey! I've been respectful forever, and I never got a beer.crybaby


BEER ? sick


I THOUGHT IT WAS THE SPERM OF CHRIST droolio

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
OMG IS THAT JESUS JUICE ? droolio

You are hopeless.puke

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are hopeless.puke


Hey, we all love Christ in a different way. wink

BobbyD
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What is for grabbing cookies, your hand or pot? laughing

laughing out loud

BobbyD
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Hey! I've been respectful forever, and I never got a beer.crybaby



beer

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Hey, we all love Christ in a different way. wink

Christ is not Jesus's last name. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Lord Urizen
Can't we all just get along ?

BobbyD
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Hey, we all love Christ in a different way. wink


sick

It will take me time to understand where you come from Uri-no offense.

wink

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by BobbyD
sick

It will take me time to understand where you come from Uri-no offense.

wink


You don't think Jesus is hott ?

BobbyD
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You don't think Jesus is hott ?

confused

Uhh....personally care not to go there.

But, the depiction of what I've grown up to know him looking like apparently wasn't even close to what he is really thought to have looked like. ...saw it on History channel, I think.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by BobbyD
confused

Uhh....personally care not to go there.

But, the depiction of what I've grown up to know him looking like apparently wasn't even close to what he is really thought to have looked like. ...saw it on History channel, I think.



I saw Passion of the Christ, Jesus looked hott as hell in that movie !

BobbyD
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I saw Passion of the Christ, Jesus looked hott as hell in that movie !

...twas a very good movie, no doubt.

WrathfulDwarf
Cristianity vs. Islamz? what is this?

Someone stuck in 1090 or something?

FistOfThe North
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Cristianity vs. Islamz? what is this?

Someone stuck in 1090 or something?

Not the direct version of the war, Wrathful. The indirect, underlying version of the real war. Come back to the future for us now.

WrathfulDwarf
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Come back to the future for us now.

You mean the Present....the future hasn't happen...yet. wink

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
You know nothning of Muhammad, but what Karen Armstrong told you.

You are wrong - fundamentalists, as you call them, do not bastardise or shame Islam.
They are the ones who are following the TRUE Islam. The Islam Muhammad practiced, and preached.

If Karen Armstrong is wrong, is Reza Aslan wrong as well? You're right though, I haven't read the Quran. That's why I rely on the experts in the feild. And it's not just one expert.

In regards to colonialization, it does have a direct effect on the level of fanatacism and the explosion of fundamentalism. It's not just in the middle east, but in Asia and India as well. That is undisputable.

And, as I said in my post, the Quran is likely filled with just as much second hand crap as is the bible. But, I also said that Mohammad was a general. I have no doubt he raised his sword. But that doesn't mean he called for it.

I'm not quite as stupid as you must think I am.

As for your attitude towards me, I'm not sure where that's coming from.

BobbyD
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You mean the Present....the future hasn't happen...yet. wink

I think he meant the future and how it related to the year 1090. stick out tongue

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by BobbyD
I think he meant the future and how it related to the year 1090. stick out tongue

What? Don't go there...

grey fox
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
The Real War: Cristianity vS. Islam.

laughing

Just because some pissed off idiots argue over witch of their omnipotent all seeing entities are better doesn't necessarily mean anyone needs a war.

Alfheim
Originally posted by grey fox
laughing

Just because some pissed off idiots argue over witch of their omnipotent all seeing entities are better doesn't necessarily mean anyone needs a war.

It does actually because other people get dragged into it wether they like it or not.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I'm not quite as stupid as you must think I am.

As for your attitude towards me, I'm not sure where that's coming from.


That's how she gets when she talks about Islam laughing


Don't get her started on Islam, please....

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by grey fox
laughing

Just because some pissed off idiots argue over witch of their omnipotent all seeing entities are better doesn't necessarily mean anyone needs a war.

Its so much worse than that

Allah, Adoni/El and The Lord/God are all the same entity so the fight is over who God didn't lie to in scripture. (Seems kinda mean not to come down and just tell us if it exists)

Naz
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
It's what, I think, consists of the current war on terror.

"The War on Terror" is a fight over oil. Religion has little, most likely nothing, to do with why the US is in the Middle East.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Naz
"The War on Terror" is a fight over oil. Religion has little, most likely nothing, to do with why the US is in the Middle East.

Half true.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Naz
"The War on Terror" is a fight over oil. Religion has little, most likely nothing, to do with why the US is in the Middle East.

Is oil also the reason for the Crusades?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Is oil also the reason for the Crusades?

The US didn't involve itself in the crusades (claimed they didn't exist yet)

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The US didn't involve itself in the crusades (claimed they didn't exist yet)

However, the Christians and Muslims did. Are they still around?

grey fox
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Is oil also the reason for the Crusades?

Nope.

The crusades were ignorance , though at the time the entire world was pretty frikkin ignorant ( save for most Arabic/Roman countries)

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by grey fox
Nope.

The crusades were ignorance , though at the time the entire world was pretty frikkin ignorant ( save for most Arabic/Roman countries)

And how are things different now? There seems to be plenty of ignorance going around.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Naz
"The War on Terror" is a fight over oil. Religion has little, most likely nothing, to do with why the US is in the Middle East.

The fight today (in Iraq) is a fight for God's knows what. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Initially speaking....post 9/11, it was a fight to take out the Taliban in Afghanistan. That was a war on terror. That's where it should have stopped. It was a successful campaign, and that's all we needed to do....fulfill our objective and get the bleep out.

That the Taliban were muslim had nothing to do with it being a religious fight....was pure revenge for they did on American soil.

Noooo....Bush had to fool himself and the world in thinking there were WMD in Iraq. roll eyes (sarcastic)

...makes me sick sometimes that I'm an American.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
However, the Christians and Muslims did. Are they still around?

I think so

However the thread's discussion is about the modern war on terror and how it relates to religion the crusades don't have much to do with the US

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by BobbyD
The fight today (in Iraq) is a fight for God's knows what. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Initially speaking....post 9/11, it was a fight to take out the Taliban in Afghanistan. That was a war on terror. That's where it should have stopped. It was a successful campaign, and that's all we needed to do....fulfill our objective and get the bleep out.

That the Taliban were muslim had nothing to do with it being a religious fight....was pure revenge for they did on American soil.

Noooo....Bush had to fool himself and the world in thinking there were WMD in Iraq. roll eyes (sarcastic)

...makes me sick sometimes that I'm an American.

This war started shortly after WW2. The cold war kept it under control for a long time, and the genie is out of the bottle.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I think so

However the thread's discussion is about the modern war on terror and how it relates to religion the crusades don't have much to do with the US

Then you have not been paying attention to what the terrorists have been saying.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
This war started shortly after WW2. The cold war kept it under control for a long time, and the genie is out of the bottle.

Genies are reeeeal????? eek!

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by BobbyD
Genies are reeeeal????? eek!

laughing We will see.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by BobbyD
Genies are reeeeal????? eek!

well they are in Islam I think

djinn are genie like fire/air spirit that are assumed to be the origin of the western idea of Genies in the middle east

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by muslimscholar
muhammed in his whole life never killed anyone with his own hands never so why lie why confuse people with all ur shit and the killing of the jews was because of a battle and they where all slain

a jewish women tried to kill the prophet by poisoning him but god saved him

Truth will not confuse the people.

Sahih Al-bukhari, vol 8, book 82, Hadith 795 -

''The pophet cut off the hands and feet of the men belonging to the tribe of Uraina and did not cauterise (their bleeding limbs) till they died.''

Nellinator
Originally posted by grey fox
Nope.

The crusades were ignorance , though at the time the entire world was pretty frikkin ignorant ( save for most Arabic/Roman countries)
Umm... The crusades were fought by the Arabic/Roman countries, so if the crusades were ignorance then the Arabic/Roman countries would have to be ignorant.

(auto quote)
No, no they are definitely not the same entity. They are much too different and teach different things to be the same.

debbiejo
Islam and Christian nations will never ever get along.......Never.....This is why we must nuke them........ evil face wink

And blame it on God for chosing Isac instead of Ishmale.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Its so much worse than that

Allah, Adoni/El and The Lord/God are all the same entity so the fight is over who God didn't lie to in scripture. (Seems kinda mean not to come down and just tell us if it exists)
No, no they are definitely not the same entity. They are much too different and teach different things to be the same.

A) Jesus was Jewish
B) People knew what god he was talking about so it must be Adonai
C) Mohommad was contacted by an angel of the god of Abraham who was at the time going by the name Allah

so yes they are all the same deity

muslimscholar
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Truth will not confuse the people.

Sahih Al-bukhari, vol 8, book 82, Hadith 795 -

''The pophet cut off the hands and feet of the men belonging to the tribe of Uraina and did not cauterise (their bleeding limbs) till they died.''

please don't lie i beg you don't here is the hadith you are quoting

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 794:

Narrated Anas:

Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.

liars never win

Nellinator
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A) Jesus was Jewish
B) People knew what god he was talking about so it must be Adonai
C) Mohommad was contacted by an angel of the god of Abraham who was at the time going by the name Allah

so yes they are all the same deity
a) Yes, Allah is Muslim not Jewish.
b) God's name is clearly Jehovah (or Yaweh which ever way you like it) and is never referenced as being anything different. Adonai is the Greek word substituted for Jehovah.
c) Why would God change his name and completely change hsi message after he sent his last prophet? Jesus fulfilled the Law and we in an era of grace, Islam does not teach that. They are different gods.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by muslimscholar
please don't lie i beg you don't here is the hadith you are quoting

Volume 8, Book 82, Number 794:

Narrated Anas:

Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine (as a medicine). They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.

liars never win

So, as long as you have someone else do your killing, you are ok? There are judges in US history that were known as hanging judges, but there never killed anyone.

Fishy
A.) People that worship Allah worship the god of the Jews, as they worship the god of Jesus (seeing as he's a prophet in Islam) and the god of Abraham, thus the Jewish god. The name of god is irrelevant, names are changed by followers. Like many other things like Jesus his birthday.

B.) See above

C.) We are in an era of grace? With the crusades the inquisition? Nuclear Bombs? Religious wars even fought today? We are not in an era of grace at all. Unless you would call grace, wars, plagues, terror, starvation and countless of other stuff.

Fishy
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, as long as you have someone else do your killing, you are ok? There are judges in US history that were known as hanging judges, but there never killed anyone.

Agreed here, it makes no difference whether he ordered the killing or did the actual killing, none at all.

However the reason for the murders changes heavily when you read the two texts, in one it's punishment for betrayal which according to some Christians grants you the worst place in hell, where you will suffer more then anywhere else or just the killing of some people he beat.

So really being killed or being send to the worst place in hell? I'd prefer the first really... Especially if I wouldn't go into hell after that, or at least not the worst part.

Doesn't excuse his actions but really it's far from as bad as it looked at first.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator

a) Yes, Allah is Muslim not Jewish.
b) God's name is clearly Jehovah (or Yaweh which ever way you like it) and is never referenced as being anything different. Adonai is the Greek word substituted for Jehovah.
c) Why would God change his name and completely change hsi message after he sent his last prophet? Jesus fulfilled the Law and we in an era of grace, Islam does not teach that. They are different gods.

A) I don't follow
B) The name doesn't matter (I was just showing that it changed over time)
C) Dunno (Maybe watching us is how God has fun)

they are the same gods

Judiasm being the oldest sets the pattern
Christianity claims that it's savior is the son of the Jewish god
Islam being the most recent says they are for example:

"It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)"

taken from the Koran (muslimscholar if I'm wrong I apologize)

Nellinator
Originally posted by Fishy
A.) People that worship Allah worship the god of the Jews, as they worship the god of Jesus (seeing as he's a prophet in Islam) and the god of Abraham, thus the Jewish god. The name of god is irrelevant, names are changed by followers. Like many other things like Jesus his birthday.

B.) See above

C.) We are in an era of grace? With the crusades the inquisition? Nuclear Bombs? Religious wars even fought today? We are not in an era of grace at all. Unless you would call grace, wars, plagues, terror, starvation and countless of other stuff.
a) They do not worship Jesus, they do not worship the god of the Jews, they don't even believe that Jesus was crucified (despite there being strong evidence that he was).
b) God's name is not irrelevant. If you understood Hebrew and the complex rules involving God's name in Jewish tradition you would understand that God's name is extremely important. Especially when we are given authority to do things in His name, not the name Allah.
c) Under the grace of God through free forgiveness. What people do has nothing to do with it.

BobbyD
Originally posted by debbiejo
Islam and Christian nations will never ever get along.......Never.....This is why we must nuke them........ evil face wink

And blame it on God for chosing Isac instead of Ishmale.

laughing out loud

....striking the match on a gasoline soaked bridge, eh?

Fishy
Originally posted by Nellinator
a) They do not worship Jesus, they do not worship the god of the Jews, they don't even believe that Jesus was crucified (despite there being strong evidence that he was).
b) God's name is not irrelevant. If you understood Hebrew and the complex rules involving God's name in Jewish tradition you would understand that God's name is extremely important. Especially when we are given authority to do things in His name, not the name Allah.
c) Under the grace of God through free forgiveness. What people do has nothing to do with it.

A) Strong evidence? Please show me, the Muslims at least acknowledge Jesus as a prophet and admit that he was alive. They just don't call him the son of God, Jews just deny his existence entirely... But please just prove the entire Muslim and Jewish religion wrong and show prove (outside of the bible) that Jesus was indeed crucified.

B) We celebrate the birthday of the son of god on the wrong date, hell even our years are off... What does the name of God matter? There are probably a lot of Christians out there that don't even know the name of God. That will think that Jehovah is just some strange sect of religious creeps. They pray to God, if God is shallow enough to care about names then God is not worthy of being worshipped.

C.) And Muslims do not accept that God can be merciful and forgive people? They do not accept that Jesus is the only way into heaven, which is to be honest kinda cruel of God. Of course there alternative isn't much better but still...

lil bitchiness
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
If Karen Armstrong is wrong, is Reza Aslan wrong as well? You're right though, I haven't read the Quran. That's why I rely on the experts in the feild. And it's not just one expert.

In regards to colonialization, it does have a direct effect on the level of fanatacism and the explosion of fundamentalism. It's not just in the middle east, but in Asia and India as well. That is undisputable.

And, as I said in my post, the Quran is likely filled with just as much second hand crap as is the bible. But, I also said that Mohammad was a general. I have no doubt he raised his sword. But that doesn't mean he called for it.

I'm not quite as stupid as you must think I am.

As for your attitude towards me, I'm not sure where that's coming from.

I have no impled you ae stupid, no have I called you that.

I am rather suprised you comment on something with such a tone of voice as you are uterly familiar with it, just by reading an article by Karen Armstrong. Out of character.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A) I don't follow
B) The name doesn't matter (I was just showing that it changed over time)
C) Dunno (Maybe watching us is how God has fun)

they are the same gods

Judiasm being the oldest sets the pattern
Christianity claims that it's savior is the son of the Jewish god
Islam being the most recent says they are for example:

"It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)"

taken from the Koran (muslimscholar if I'm wrong I apologize)
A) See my previous post.
B) See my previous post.
C) See my previous post.

Yes, but they do not actually believe the gospel of Jesus. The gospel (ie. good news) of Jesus is that he died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins and rose again giving us victory over sin. Jesus did this in fulfillment of the law (something he clearly claimed to do) and as fulfillment of prophecy from the Law and the prophets. If the Muslims can't believe this they do not believe the gospel of Jesus despite the claims of the Quran.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Nellinator
They are different gods.

Allah and God are one and the same.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Fishy
A.) People that worship Allah worship the god of the Jews, as they worship the god of Jesus (seeing as he's a prophet in Islam) and the god of Abraham, thus the Jewish god. The name of god is irrelevant, names are changed by followers.


Well said.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Nellinator
a) They do not worship Jesus, they do not worship the god of the Jews, they don't even believe that Jesus was crucified (despite there being strong evidence that he was).
b) God's name is not irrelevant. If you understood Hebrew and the complex rules involving God's name in Jewish tradition you would understand that God's name is extremely important. Especially when we are given authority to do things in His name, not the name Allah.
c) Under the grace of God through free forgiveness. What people do has nothing to do with it.

I think this is false-no offense. wink

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator

Yes, but they do not actually believe the gospel of Jesus. The gospel (ie. good news) of Jesus is that he died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins and rose again giving us victory over sin. Jesus did this in fulfillment of the law (something he clearly claimed to do) and as fulfillment of prophecy from the Law and the prophets. If the Muslims can't believe this they do not believe the gospel of Jesus despite the claims of the Quran.

my satement had nothing to do with belief or faith

it had to do with the historical fact that Judaism, Christianity and Islam all worship the same god just using a different name and teachings

Nellinator
Originally posted by Fishy
A) Strong evidence? Please show me, the Muslims at least acknowledge Jesus as a prophet and admit that he was alive. They just don't call him the son of God, Jews just deny his existence entirely... But please just prove the entire Muslim and Jewish religion wrong and show prove (outside of the bible) that Jesus was indeed crucified.

B) We celebrate the birthday of the son of god on the wrong date, hell even our years are off... What does the name of God matter? There are probably a lot of Christians out there that don't even know the name of God. That will think that Jehovah is just some strange sect of religious creeps. They pray to God, if God is shallow enough to care about names then God is not worthy of being worshipped.

C.) And Muslims do not accept that God can be merciful and forgive people? They do not accept that Jesus is the only way into heaven, which is to be honest kinda cruel of God. Of course there alternative isn't much better but still...
A) We have the history of the Jewish people written by Josephus and probably completed in 93 AD. In the Testimonium Flavianum it says:
"When Pilate, upon hearing hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him."

Then we have the Roman Tacitus in 115 AD who wrote:

"Christus from whom the name had its origin (this is a reference to Christians), suffered the extreme penalty (ie. crucification) during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate..."

That is two very different sources (neither friendly to the Christians) from outside the Bible indicating the death of Jesus by crucifiction. The Bible itself is amazing historically accurate adding to the credit of this story.

B) The name is important because in the name (ie. that is one name) of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit we are to be baptized according to the gospel of Jesus. We are also commanded to pray daily in the name of Jesus. The name is extremely important.

C) Not really. If I understand Muslim theology, there is nothing really about forgiveness, just the balancing of deeds.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
it had to do with the historical fact that Judaism, Christianity and Islam all worship the same god just using a different name and teachings How then are they similar in any way if they teach different things and go by different names?

Fishy
Originally posted by Nellinator
A) We have the history of the Jewish people written by Josephus and probably completed in 93 AD. In the Testimonium Flavianum it says:
"When Pilate, upon hearing hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him."

Then we have the Roman Tacitus in 115 AD who wrote:

"Christus from whom the name had its origin (this is a reference to Christians), suffered the extreme penalty (ie. crucification) during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate..."

That is two very different sources (neither friendly to the Christians) from outside the Bible indicating the death of Jesus by crucifiction. The Bible itself is amazing historically accurate adding to the credit of this story.

B) The name is important because in the name (ie. that is one name) of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit we are to be baptized according to the gospel of Jesus. We are also commanded to pray daily in the name of Jesus. The name is extremely important.

C) Not really. If I understand Muslim theology, there is nothing really about forgiveness, just the balancing of deeds.

A) Both sources are things quoting the events later on and telling them from a Christian perspective... Thus obviously telling the story of the crucifixion's because that's the story they have heard from Christians. Seeing as crucifying people was not uncommon it's very unlikely that they would have checked up on facts/

B) I don't see why, like I said most people won't even know the name of God. I doubt God would care about how you call Him, and if He did then God really is shallow. Not to mention that so many other things have been changed throughout history. We celebrate the birth of Jesus on the wrong freaking date. That seems like a pretty important event in the Christian religion doesn't it?

C) Even if that's true that doesn't mean that Muslims assume God can not forgive. Nor does it change anything.

They way they read the scriptures is quite irrelevant to the fact that they worship the same God. Catholics and Protestants newer sects and the Orthodox religions all worship God in different ways. As did the now extinct Gnostic sects... They still all worshiped the same God.

Originally posted by Nellinator
How then are they similar in any way if they teach different things and go by different names?

They all worship the God of Abraham... The original Jewish God.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Fishy
A) Both sources are things quoting the events later on and telling them from a Christian perspective... Thus obviously telling the story of the crucifixion's because that's the story they have heard from Christians. Seeing as crucifying people was not uncommon it's very unlikely that they would have checked up on facts/

B) I don't see why, like I said most people won't even know the name of God. I doubt God would care about how you call Him, and if He did then God really is shallow. Not to mention that so many other things have been changed throughout history. We celebrate the birth of Jesus on the wrong freaking date. That seems like a pretty important event in the Christian religion doesn't it?

C) Even if that's true that doesn't mean that Muslims assume God can not forgive. Nor does it change anything.

They way they read the scriptures is quite irrelevant to the fact that they worship the same God. Catholics and Protestants newer sects and the Orthodox religions all worship God in different ways. As did the now extinct Gnostic sects... They still all worshiped the same God.



They all worship the God of Abraham... The original Jewish God.
A) Not a Christian perspective. Josehpus was Jewish, he did not believe in Jesus and he was alive when Jesus was crucified. His source is more likely from the Talmud, the Jewish temple writings that talk about Jesus as a healer (which is why the Jews do believe that Jesus existed making your previous statement to the opposite false). Read the Tacitus statement again, or look up the entire passage. Tacitus would not have drawn on Christian resources and instead went by Roman records of the office of Pontius Pilate. Christianity was not widespread at the time of Tacitus or Josephus.

B) Christmas really isn't that important, nor are dates as important as the purpose of the celebration (celebrations we aren't commanded to keep). However, when commandments of the Bible directly hinge on the name of God, we had best stick to one name. Deviation from that is deviation of God's command. So if you think this makes God shallow then God is shallow.

C) They don't read the scriptures, they don't believe anything in them. I'm actually confused as to what of the New Testament they do believe. The Bible shows many different ways to worship God, however, it also shows ways of worship that are detested by God (such as Gnostic practices).

The Bible clearly says that Jehovah is the God of Abraham, not Allah.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator
How then are they similar in any way if they teach different things and go by different names?

They are not at all similar but all three religions trace themselves back to abraham and the god that contacted him

if you look at the religious texts of all three it is very clear that the god they are talking about is meant to be the same entity

we know jesus was jewish and that he didn't have to explain about this being a new different god to the jews so one can assume he refered to the same one that they alreadly new

as for muslims I'll appeal to muslimscholar's expertise (or any other muslims on KMC) but I'm pretty sure the Koran actally states that they follow the god of abraham (ie Jehova)

debbiejo
Originally posted by BobbyD
laughing out loud

....striking the match on a gasoline soaked bridge, eh? People don't get it.......it was based on what some say that god rejected.....God rejected Ishmael and favored Isaac.......making Ishmael of the devil and the likes in many circles.

Templares
I wouldnt count Josephus as a credible outside source for Christianity. For one, the emperor Vespasian is Josephus' messiah. Second, the Crucifixion passages in his Antiquities are considered corrupted by most scholars.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Templares
I wouldnt count Josephus as a credible outside source for Christianity. For one, the emperor Vespasian is Josephus' messiah. Second, the Crucifixion passages in his Antiquities are considered corrupted by most scholars.
It is considered credible by a massive majority of scholars. The corrupted parts (called interpolations) are obvious and have been identified and I left them out. I gave the credible authentic account of Josephus.

Templares
Originally posted by Nellinator
It is considered credible by a massive majority of scholars. The corrupted parts (called interpolations) are obvious and have been identified and I left them out. I gave the credible authentic account of Josephus.

Meh. There is no such thing as an undisputed, "authentic" Josephus account on Christianity's Jesus even if you left out the corrupted/tampered/interpolated parts. The only general consensus among scholars is that Josephus' account on Jesus is one near hopeless mess of alterations to the original text. The Testimonium Flavianum(Flavianus? sp) has as much historical credibility as a Japanese textbook on WWII.

Nellinator
Apparently you know very little of scholarly opinion on this subject. The interpolations are obvious as the language used in them is not consistent with the language he uses in other parts of his work. The part I quoted is not debated. If you want to discuss the entire passage and the debated parts I would be happy to as it an interesting topic.

Fishy
Originally posted by Nellinator
A) Not a Christian perspective. Josehpus was Jewish, he did not believe in Jesus and he was alive when Jesus was crucified. His source is more likely from the Talmud, the Jewish temple writings that talk about Jesus as a healer (which is why the Jews do believe that Jesus existed making your previous statement to the opposite false). Read the Tacitus statement again, or look up the entire passage. Tacitus would not have drawn on Christian resources and instead went by Roman records of the office of Pontius Pilate. Christianity was not widespread at the time of Tacitus or Josephus.

B) Christmas really isn't that important, nor are dates as important as the purpose of the celebration (celebrations we aren't commanded to keep). However, when commandments of the Bible directly hinge on the name of God, we had best stick to one name. Deviation from that is deviation of God's command. So if you think this makes God shallow then God is shallow.

C) They don't read the scriptures, they don't believe anything in them. I'm actually confused as to what of the New Testament they do believe. The Bible shows many different ways to worship God, however, it also shows ways of worship that are detested by God (such as Gnostic practices).

The Bible clearly says that Jehovah is the God of Abraham, not Allah.

So your entire argument is that they don't worship the same God because they interpreted the books in a different way? Catholics and Protestants worship God in different ways too what does that make them? Jews worship God in a different way as well, what does that make them? And if it's all about the name then you would have thousands if not millions of Christianity who are not worshiping the same God as you are, even if they are sitting in the same church.

muslimscholar
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, as long as you have someone else do your killing, you are ok? There are judges in US history that were known as hanging judges, but there never killed anyone.

they did justice to those who are criminals if you see now in Britain there is no capital punishment so a murderer gets 15 years and gets out on bail and commits another murder is that good?

Fishy
Originally posted by muslimscholar
they did justice to those who are criminals if you see now in Britain there is no capital punishment so a murderer gets 15 years and gets out on bail and commits another murder is that good?

Unless of course the one sentenced is innocent, or actually comes out a better person after 15 years of punishment. And instead of murdering another person becomes a loving father/husband/mother/wife gets a good job and whatever.

One mistake no matter how terrible should not always mean the end of somebody his life, perhaps when he or she is guilty without any doubt, not just without reasonable doubt but just without doubt and the person feels no remorse and has said that he or she will kill again, then it might be worth taking them out. And even then I would prefer life in prison.

Point is, one crime does not mean somebody is a criminal for the rest of his life.

Besides Muhammad may have been betrayed by these people, he wasn't exactly nice to conquer them and force them into a new religion to begin with.

lord xyz
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The world would be better off without ether of those religions. stick out tongue either stick out tongue

Lord Urizen
The fact that even until today, on KMC, Christians and Muslims will still insist the other's religion is wrong, just shows how far away we are from true peace with each other.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
The fact that even until today, on KMC, Christians and Muslims will still insist the other's religion is wrong, just shows how far away we are from true peace with each other.

I wouldn't go thaaat far though there is some truth to what you say.

The bottom line is there are rotten apples on both sides of the fence.

But, yes...that an obscure chat board like this has evidence shows how long a way both sides need to go.

Peace.

Lord Urizen
I think the First Step is saying,


"I might be wrong"

BobbyD
Originally posted by Lord Urizen

"I might be wrong"

Mwah? never!!!

HOOOAHAHAHAHAHAH! mad


evil face






stick out tongue

Lord Urizen
We have a lo0o00ong way to go roll eyes (sarcastic)

FistOfThe North
The popular thought within this "divine" fight going on between the 2 groups: "My religion loves and worships God better than your religion does."

"No we don't. How dare you. Die."..And vise versa

lil bitchiness
Ok, just for the shits and giggles - where exactly did you get that from? What is that conclusion based on? Please explain.

FistOfThe North
My apologies. That was missaid. I meant:

"No. We love God more than you do. How dare you. Die." would be the common reply.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by lord xyz
either stick out tongue

Stop it you little British punk. stick out tongue jk laughing

FistOfThe North
Or more like Islamsofascism verses far right ideology.

lil bitchiness
What makes you say that?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
What makes you say that?


I think he means that Islam and Christianity, in moderation, are not negative forces nor are they really at war with each other.


However, the Islamic Extremists and Far Right Christians, are certainly at war with each other, and probably will be for a very long time.

FistOfThe North
^ not bad.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
^ not bad.


big grin

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
^ not bad.

Not good. wink

Lord Urizen
droolio

Alliance
Since when have Christianity and Islam recently been at war?

<< THERE IS MORE FROM THIS THREAD HERE >>