Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

... Is being revealed daily over at Newsarama. So far we have...

Echo : http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=96993


Ronin : http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=97105



So... new Ronin. Cap? Clint? Bucky? Stark?

Looks like it's going to be largely street level characters so far.

Isn't Hawkeye currently spending all his time ****ing Wanda?

New Ronin = Elektra

... maybe Cap

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Looks like it's going to be largely street level characters so far.

Isn't Hawkeye currently spending all his time ****ing Wanda? you are correct sir! maybe Wanda just gives him a teleport back home every now and then

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
New Ronin = Elektra

... maybe Cap

God I hope not

Seriously, if Ronin is going to be drawn like a man, he has to be a man

Sorry feminists thats the way things work

I can see Bucky starting up a new Invaders team

Originally posted by Grimm22
I can see Bucky starting up a new Invaders team

That would be cool, but thus far once again not buying any more issues of New Avengers

Originally posted by King_Mungi
That would be cool, but thus far once again not buying any more issues of New Avengers

Yeah, after the natraucity known as the Collective, its hard to belive in the book again

I mean seriously, only 3 members of the team actually did anything

The rest just kind of sat around

Originally posted by Grimm22
Yeah, after the natraucity known as the Collective, its hard to belive in the book again

I mean seriously, only 3 members of the team actually did anything

The rest just kind of sat around

Apparently that was enough, and yet those three members did better than Alpha Flight?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
New Ronin = Elektra

... maybe Cap

I like how u think. Cap was my first choice. My second choice was Daredevil. I didnt thought about Elektra but it would be cool if she was. I think they are making the "Ronin" character the Avengers version of the X-mens Erik the Red. The identity wa sused at least 3 times for 3 different purposes by 3 different guys.

Well didnt someone hint that Ironman and Captain America may be different people post Civil War? I could see Bucky/Winter Soldier taking over as Captain America, and Steve being Ronin. Or, and this is the longshot pick, it could be Tony since he is ashamed of what he created in America after it is all said and done.

I don't think Bucky would take over as Captain America because Bucky's on the same side as Steve and working as an agent for Fury. With Steve going rogue the United States will probably take the rights back to the Cap identity and hand it to someone else. This hasn't come up yet though, so it might not happen, Steve might just evade it, though if it does happen and Steve becomes Ronin, I'm wondering who'll be Captain America. We know it's not John Walker because he's going to play U.S.Agent in Canada. I'd rather see Steve take up the Nomad name again though, of all his other costume aliases, that was the best and he should use it as tribute to Jack Monroe.

I'd like to see Nick Fury wear it. Or Black Widow, for that matter. If she quit SHIELD due to Stark or... something.

Or Maria Hill, 'cause she was used and Stark's taking her position.

What all has Hawkeye had to do with Civil War? I mean, these are supposed to be due to those events. He's still moaning about HOM.

I thought it might be Elektra because we know she is about to have a confrontation with Ronin... presumably one that will led to Maya ditching her gear. I'm a bit confused because Elektra was no longer under the influence of the Hand/Hydra at the end of Enemy of the State (in fact it was revealed that she never was to begin with) so I'm not really sure why she is kicking it with a cell of Hand Ninjas but if she is mind controlled (yawn) and Maya frees her then it isn't a big stretch that she would adopt a new persona for a while and since Echo isn't using Ronin anymore...

Maybe its Wolverine? Saying that S.H.I.E.L.D is not pleased with him is an understatement; both the Maria Hill and Dum Dum are trying to get him in custody. Seeing as it's no secret that S.H.I.E.L.D is trying to apprehend him it might be a good idea for Wolverine to adopt a new alter ego... and besides he actually is a Ronin.

I hope it isn't Cap, Fury or Stark... who can picture any of them using Katana with out a bad taste forming in your mouth?

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
I'd like to see Nick Fury wear it. Or Black Widow, for that matter. If she quit SHIELD due to Stark or... something.

Or Maria Hill, 'cause she was used and Stark's taking her position.

What all has Hawkeye had to do with Civil War? I mean, these are supposed to be due to those events. He's still moaning about HOM.

Whoever it is it has a long history at Marvel, so that leaves Maria Hill out. I dont see Nick Fury jumping from rooftop to rooftop. Black Widow is on Mighty Avengers.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Apparently that was enough, and yet those three members did better than Alpha Flight? Ya, but why would Alpha Flight do any better?
Isn't Wolverine able to beat the whole team?
They are lucky they did as well as they did.

Alpha Flight needed to be killed of before they started kicking up dirt and reminding people about Canada's Superhuman Registration Act... it would have made Millar look bad.

Originally posted by Grimm22
I mean seriously, only 3 members of the team actually did anything

The rest just kind of sat around So you'd have rathered Bendis created a PIS-tastic situation where they would've been able to fight the Collective aswell (which you no doubt would've bitched about just as much)?

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Alpha Flight needed to be killed of before they started kicking up dirt and reminding people about Canada's Superhuman Registration Act... it would have made Millar look bad. At least we still have Wolve... nevermind.



































































Shrank.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Alpha Flight needed to be killed of before they started kicking up dirt and reminding people about Canada's Superhuman Registration Act... it would have made Millar look bad.

HA! Pretty much the Civil War already happened in Canada during the last arc in vol.1 of Alpha Flight. I guess Canadians are more politically advanced than you Yanks

Originally posted by King_Mungi
HA! Pretty much the Civil War already happened in Canada during the last arc in vol.1 of Alpha Flight. I guess Canadians are more politically advanced than you Yanks Yeah but it happened in Canada so no one really cares

I'm actually starting to love the idea of a street level 'Black Ops' style Avengers, especially with Bendis writing the book. If the team contiues recruiting more of Marvels more famous street levelers I'll definitely be buying it. This is what Bendis does best, and IMO he really is the best (only exception being Frank Miller) As for who Ronnin is going to be, id probably go for hawk-eye over everyone else, as Bendis kinds of owes it to the hawk-eye fan boys(Who would have thought they existed ), and ll those people who couldn't use the Internet, after it basically crashed after disassembled. Expect to see the following on the team aswelll; Cage, Wolverine, Cap and Spider man. When you consider that line up, its going to be a pretty cool book. Miles more suitable to Bendis than that the other Avengers team, which is basically a collection of American Football Frat boys.

Looks like Omega Flight might definately be the premiere Marvel team after Civil War. They seem to have the most colorful lineup.

Cap isn't a samurai

And Bendis has made it clear that the new Ronin is a ninja/samurai, type character

Maybe Wolverine

I hope it's not Elektra. I'm not too concerned about Avengers being full of street levelers, but have two ninja ladies on one team isn't diverse enough for my tastes

Originally posted by Newjak
Yeah but it happened in Canada so no one really cares

You say that, but we all know the truth Canada ownz all.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g159/A_Flight9/einheri.jpg

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Looks like Omega Flight might definately be the premiere Marvel team after Civil War. They seem to have the most colorful lineup.

Thus far looks like, Mighty Avengers is pretty good but the New Avengers is horrible. I wonder who will be on the "new" New Warriors team.

Anyone hear of the 3rd member yet?

I found this thread on Newsarama......

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=97065

It's most of the new line up. So much for an Avenger a day. Cap can't be seen in the pics of the line up

Originally posted by nimbus006
Anyone hear of the 3rd member yet?

It's Strange.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=97297

Originally posted by willRules
I found this thread on Newsarama......

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=97065

It's most of the new line up. So much for an Avenger a day. Cap can't be seen in the pics of the line up

So, if you cross out members of the MA, you're left with:

Spiderman
Spider-Woman
Wolverine
Luke Cage
and Iron Fist

With the assumption that these are completley authentic and that Echo and Ronin (both of whom are missing from the artwork) will be joining.

Correct?

That is if those pictures are authentic... which looks slightly doubtful, at the moment.

EDIT: So much for a purley street-leveller team, if Strange has joined.

Eh, i'm fine with the NEw Avengers being a street level=ish type team. That's what Bendis is best at writing, and i'd rather the book be good.

But yeah, Strange was just revealed as a member. Which is cool.

The whole Civil War saga was only made so that Marvel can change a lot of things...Mess up teams or correct them.

They seem to be trying to make a balance between New Avengers, Mighty Avengers and Omega Flight. Talisman for Omega Flight, and Strange for New Avengers.

Dr. Strange as an Avenger? It's about damn time!!!!

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
That is if those pictures are authentic... which looks slightly doubtful, at the moment.


Yeah I'm also doubtful as to it's reliability but I thought it was worth posting


EDIT: I just saw the preview image for Dr Strange on Newsarama and look at the guy Director Hill has in Shield custody!!! That's not Cap strapped to a table is it??? Look at the pirate boots!!! If it is him then there is it's most likely he is arrested or Strange will free him for the NA line up?

Originally posted by willRules
Yeah I'm also doubtful as to it's reliability but I thought it was worth posting


EDIT: I just saw the preview image for Dr Strange on Newsarama and look at the guy Director Hill has in Shield custody!!! That's not Cap strapped to a table is it??? Look at the pirate boots!!! If it is him then there is it's most likely he is arrested or Strange will free him for the NA line up?

Fair enough.

And yeah, I saw it too

Just another ominous hint that everythings gonna go pretty damn bad for the anti-reg side.

__________________________________________________
____

1) Echo
2) Ronin (Cap. The Ronin is the masterless samurai, and he has lost faith in America, which is, essentially, his master.)
3) Doctor Strange
4) Spiderman
5) Hank Pym
6) Hawkeye
7) Spider-Woman.
8) Clor

Thats a list that I came up with. Not neccessairly the most likley, but I think it would be interesting.

Interesting list. I don't see much of a future for Clor though as I think I read somewhere he was originally intended to be the real Thor but pro-reg, but then Marvel had a change of heart as they realised Thor would always side with Cap......... and the fan backlash would be enormous

Judging from the info I would guess

Ronin
Echo
Strange
Spidey
Cap(? As he may be Ronin)
Wolverine
Luke Cage
Spiderwoman

Seriously though what use is Echo on the team at all, or whatever streetleveller is under the Ronin mask, when Strange is on the Avengers?

I think (and hope) that Dr Strange will be kind of how Sentry was used in New Avengers. If there's a big threat they call in the big gun. Or if they need a ride they could call u on him.

*sigh* There goes my dream for a street level Avengers roster

i have a feeling strange will be a sideline member most of the time. a deus ex machina in goofy garb.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Seriously though what use is Echo on the team at all, or whatever streetleveller is under the Ronin mask, when Strange is on the Avengers?

Can say the same about US Agent and Arachne in Omega Flight when you have Beta Ray Bill and Talisman.

Originally posted by Black Adam
It's Strange.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=97297

Strangely enough the guy lying down could be Cap. The boots resemble his.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Seriously though what use is Echo on the team at all, or whatever streetleveller is under the Ronin mask, when Strange is on the Avengers?


Because Echo has this ability to perfectly copy and retain the skills of another, and what Dr. Strange does CAN be learned by anyone he sees fit to teach....

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Seriously though what use is Echo on the team at all, or whatever streetleveller is under the Ronin mask, when Strange is on the Avengers? In terms of fights, she'll probably be as useful as the street levelers on any other team you wanna name. It's not like having street levels characters in the Avengers is a new thing.

No way. Ronin isn't even an established character in th 616 reality but is already ultimatized. I'm interested but it seems like they're jumping the gun a bit

She/he looks exactally like what he does in 616

http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays30.html

There are some slight modifications (like to the face/helmet whatever), but yea its basically the same thing. I'm interested though. From Ultimate Spider-Man Annual I've been interested in what Ult Daredevil has planned.

Well I meant it's pretty close to 616, as Ultimate Deadpool really didn't look at all like 616

Originally posted by willRules
Interesting list. I don't see much of a future for Clor though as I think I read somewhere he was originally intended to be the real Thor but pro-reg, but then Marvel had a change of heart as they realised Thor would always side with Cap......... and the fan backlash would be enormous

Judging from the info I would guess

Ronin
Echo
Strange
Spidey
Cap(? As he may be Ronin)
Wolverine
Luke Cage
Spiderwoman

Yours is actually a fairly likely list.

And yeah, I know it porbably isn't Clor. However, number 8 is supposed to be a big surprise, so I was tthinking of who would come so far out of nowhere for there to be serious shock factor.

Of course, I could have put Hank Pym there as well. Doesn't matter that much.

Clor would be cool. It would be an interesting twist. I mean when Civil War 3 was about to come out I was convinced the real Thor would show up to even the power for the anti-regs, but Clor was pro-reg which has shocked me further. I have been really off on most of my predictions so far

Originally posted by Darth Vicious
Strangely enough the guy lying down could be Cap. The boots resemble his.

Way ahead of ya, kind sir...........


Originally posted by willRules
I just saw the preview image for Dr Strange on Newsarama and look at the guy Director Hill has in Shield custody!!! That's not Cap strapped to a table is it??? Look at the pirate boots!!! If it is him then there is it's most likely he is arrested or Strange will free him for the NA line up?

Is it just me or is this Line up looking suspiciously like the Marvel Knights ? Well the M.K. hand book anyway.

So who is the character today?

I don't think it's been announced yet.

And I'm starting to rethink my claim that Cap will be Ronin. After all, swords are very lethal... and Cap doesn't do lethal. Ever.

Where is Zemo right now? He would actually fullfill all of the requirments. That's my latest idea for the identity.

Zemo's got a mini coming out soon, but he'd be an interesting choice.

He was Citizen V and he had a sword as well

And one would think it would be due to the side affects of Civil War (after Zemo turned apparently good, was betrayed, etc. )

The problem with Zemo is that he's not trusted by pretty much everyone on the possible lineups. Plus, he's also stuck somewhere in Dark Age Germany. The writers let slip that he's going to find out about some family skeletons and it's going to seriously mess him up. I don't expect him to be back for awhile. Hell, he may even go Anti-reg. Not likely since Stark sponsored the Thunderbolts, but possible.

Well, Hawkeye fits well enough, except that I don't see how Civil War specifically has motivated him to do that (as was stated, CW will be the reason whoever it is took up the Ronin title). From what I can see, it was pretty much all HOM.

Dr. Strange rumored to be avenger, and maybe Iron Fist could be the new Ronin.

Originally posted by the Darkone
Dr. Strange rumored to be avenger, and maybe Iron Fist could be the new Ronin.

not rumored. It's been confirmed. As for Ronin...Iron fist has just gotten interesting for me in his own book. I hate to see him handed over to Bendis.

Ironfist would fit, I just see little reasoning for it. But, I haven't kept up with him much over Civil War. Anyone have an explanation?

And, by this point, Dr. Strange is pretty much confirmed as a member of the NA.

I heard bendis want have Nova on the roster or Pulsar that would be great she is one of favs avengers. Invisible Woman would be a great addition and hopefully the return of Thor.

They're keeping Nova out in space for awhile after Annihilation, I think.

And I think there's probably a little bit missing from those two Lenil Yu covers with the New Avengers and Mighty Avengers. Dr. Strange is nowhere to be found for one, it's definately not the final lineup.

I don't think they'd kill Captain America either, not after the magic Brubaker's been working with him, it's been selling well and after the disaster of Captain America v4, I think they like having Cap be a big deal again.

Plus Bendis has said the Mighty Avengers lineup will change a bit early on...of course he said that about NA and lied blatantly. So we'll see.

On Yu's covers if you look to the top you can make out some of the blue sphere's of energy that usually denote Dr Strange's energy. I'm sure a completed picture will show the Doc. Meet the New new Avengers resumes Monday so I guess we'll have to wait till then to see if that line-up is the real deal

4th Day: Wolverine

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=97608
====
Ronin, Echo, Wolverine and Dr.Strange alright folks sing it with me

"One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?"

Now there is a surprise

so far this sounds like the worst avengers lineup ever

Omega Flight's lineup thus far actually sounds the best

Where the heck is Thor!!!!!!?????

Originally posted by Soujaboy
Where the heck is Thor!!!!!!?????

He might be the big suprize member at the end.

Strange just joined the Avengers because they have all three next gen systems, a massive Hi-def tv and a shit load of Red Bull and beef jerky.

I think that Bendis said that Thor and Ares where going to have a showdown soon, so Thor may actually be a member of New Avengers.

So far this is sounding like the best Avengers line-up ever!

I maintain that Clor would be better plot-wise then Thor

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I think that Bendis said that Thor and Ares where going to have a showdown soon, so Thor may actually be a member of New Avengers.

Yes, and he also said he will show away Ares can beat him too.

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
So far this is sounding like the best Avengers line-up ever!

You serious?

Meh. If he is writen badly then Ares could give him heck (and doesn't Ares have a magic sword now?). 'Sides, Thor's lost to the Hulk like five times, he fights like a tool.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Meh. If he is writen badly then Ares could give him heck (and doesn't Ares have a magic sword now?). 'Sides, Thor's lost to the Hulk like five times, he fights like a tool.

Apparently, but he even made regular weapons such as guns super powerful. So maybe he can transfer his god-essence into weapons. *shrugs*

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Apparently, but he even made regular weapons such as guns super powerful. So maybe he can transfer his god-essence into weapons. *shrugs*

Well... that would explain how he shot Hermes with a nail gun.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Well... that would explain how he shot Hermes with a nail gun.

I chuckled at that, but I have problems. Oeming is writing another Ares mini that is coming out.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
I chuckled at that, but I have problems. Oeming is writing another Ares mini that is coming out.

The last Ares was pretty good but some more explaining of the Japanese pantheon would have been nice, though. They kind of came out left field...

Originally posted by Lucid Lui
So far this is sounding like the best Avengers line-up ever!

Da da da da da *insert McDonald's theme music* I'm lovin it

Wolveine huh?...hmm...

god, this isn't fair

Bendis should be limited to one Avengers book

Seriously, we have to put up with a female ultron (wtf?!)

and now a team of Avengers without any member who has ever been an avenger before?!? (assuming Ronin isn't Hawkeye)

Originally posted by Grimm22
god, this isn't fair

Bendis should be limited to one Avengers book

Seriously, we have to put up with a female ultron (wtf?!)

and now a team of Avengers without any member who has ever been an avenger before?!? (assuming Ronin isn't Hawkeye)

Correct me if I'm wrong here but haven't all Avengers at one point never been Avengers. If you want to use that mentality then Cap shouldn't have allowed on the team cause when they found him he wasn't an Avenger. Now if your point was that is that they are many Avengers character out there to choose from so that Bendis shouldn't have to bring in new members then I say that there are also many great characters who are deserving of membership and that I'm glad Bendis is tapping them.

And lets at least wait for the Mighty Avengers issue to come out before we talk about how stupid it is

The line-up just seems off.

There's Wolverine, Ronin and Echo.

And then there's Dr Strange.

It would be nice to have a bit more of a spectrum of power levels. Maybe the remaining characters will fill the gap.

If Dr Strange's role is more background role than I think it'll be a problem with the levels. Treat him like how Thor was to earlier Avengers and have him show up when the team needs him

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The line-up just seems off.

There's Wolverine, Ronin and Echo.

And then there's Dr Strange.

It would be nice to have a bit more of a spectrum of power levels. Maybe the remaining characters will fill the gap.

Maybe.....yawn Maybe not.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The line-up just seems off.

There's Wolverine, Ronin and Echo.



Wait a minute arent Echo and Ronin the same person?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Wait a minute arent Echo and Ronin the same person?

Yes, but not anymore.

Next member revealed.

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=97742

Meh.

I honestly don't mind the line-up so far. The only problem i have is that this revealing-a-member-a-day thing is getting kind of predictable. Hopefully there a member or two that i don't see coming.

I predict.... Doop.

Can't wait until The Mighty Avengers comes out. Can't say for sure who RONIN is but I don't think its Capt. America. As for Elektra; Why does she have to wear a costume?

Horrible, so basically just like the "old" New Avengers team.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I predict.... Doop.

Oooh

I predict... Uatu.

Im happy so far with the line up. Ronin, Wolvie, Spider-Woman, Echo they are just plain cool!

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Oooh

I predict... Uatu. Now that's a line-up.

Doop, Uatu, Dr Strange and human Galactus. The new Fantastic Four.

I wet myself.

Originally posted by What If...
I wet myself.

Let me guess for Wolverine right?

I want squirrel girl.Seriously she needs more exposure.

Cap/Punisher team up would be awesome. They have good dynamics. Cap dispises Pun but admires his guts and determination, Pun thinks cap is a pussy but he looks up to him.

They'd do well together for the simple fact that they are soldiers, the don't NEED to like the person they're fighting with.

Good team up.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Horrible, so basically just like the "old" New Avengers team.

What did you expect? Most of the "old" New Avenger line-up was anti-reg (Cap, Luke, SW, SM) with only Tony and Sentry being pro. Makes sense they would stick together. Personally I would find it ridiculous to come up with a whole new team when the "old" one barely got off the ground.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Correct me if I'm wrong here but haven't all Avengers at one point never been Avengers. If you want to use that mentality then Cap shouldn't have allowed on the team cause when they found him he wasn't an Avenger. Now if your point was that is that they are many Avengers character out there to choose from so that Bendis shouldn't have to bring in new members then I say that there are also many great characters who are deserving of membership and that I'm glad Bendis is tapping them.

And lets at least wait for the Mighty Avengers issue to come out before we talk about how stupid it is

There are ALOT of complaints being made at the moment, with all the creative revamps and original but radical depictions of characters (Especially with Millars take on the traditional characters in Civil War.). In my oppion CHANGE is good, especially with the proposed sophisticated evolution of the medium. IMO the continued recycling of characters and story-lines is what made comics So bad during the 90's. I don't think any of us want comics to return to those Dark Ages?

So is there going to be two different Avengers teams after the Civil War. New Avengers and Mighty Avengers, with the New Avengers being the more anti-regs and the Mighty being pro-reg? Cuz that's what it seems like.

Originally posted by marvelprince
What did you expect? Most of the "old" New Avenger line-up was anti-reg (Cap, Luke, SW, SM) with only Tony and Sentry being pro. Makes sense they would stick together. Personally I would find it ridiculous to come up with a whole new team when the "old" one barely got off the ground.

The old one didn't do anything, they were never really ever together to fight. Ronin was just in the one arc and buggered off and it took forever till we say all the members. Make the team more interesting, Dr.Strange is good but he basically took Sentry's spot. Thus far the team is steet level...again.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
The old one didn't do anything, they were never really ever together to fight. Ronin was just in the one arc and buggered off and it took forever till we say all the members. Make the team more interesting, Dr.Strange is good but he basically took Sentry's spot. Thus far the team is steet level...again.

Exactly. if they never really got to do anything then why would you want to completely change them. At least wait till they get their sea legs first.

And yay for street levelers

Originally posted by marvelprince
Exactly. if they never really got to do anything then why would you want to completely change them. At least wait till they get their sea legs first.

And yay for street levelers

Id love to have seen Black Panther and strom on the team, but i cant see it happening, especially with them joining the 'New Fantastic Four'.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Exactly. if they never really got to do anything then why would you want to completely change them. At least wait till they get their sea legs first.

And yay for street levelers

because if they took this long and still havn't do anything get rid of them, if this were a job they would have been fired for being lazy.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
because if they took this long and still havn't do anything get rid of them, if this were a job they would have been fired for being lazy.

Um mm, no !

Critical acclaim < takings in issues sales.

The New Avengers although utter crap, has been a real seller for marvel, and its unlikely that bad reviews and terrible story writing will hinder its progression. You only have to see the magnitude of dire X-men books to see how Marvel work.

Wolverine : as over exposed as he is, I'm ok with him being on the team
Ronin : nice mystery to start us off with
Dr Strange : schweet
Spider-woman : reserves judgement
Echo : puke I'd rather have an interestingly established character such as Daredevil or Invisible Woman

Out of 4

Ronin: **

Echo: ** could be a very interesting character once she is developed.

Dr. Strange: ****

Wolverine: ***

Spider Woman: *

Overall Avg= 2.4 stars (not bad)

Originally posted by Doctor S.T.D.
Um mm, no !

Critical acclaim < takings in issues sales.

The New Avengers although utter crap, has been a real seller for marvel, and its unlikely that bad reviews and terrible story writing will hinder its progression. You only have to see the magnitude of dire X-men books to see how Marvel work.

Their numbers have been steadily declining actually, people are getting tired of this book.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Their numbers have been steadily declining actually, people are getting tired of this book.

Yet its still A MASSIVE seller.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Out of 4

Ronin: **

Echo: ** could be a very interesting character once she is developed.

Dr. Strange: ****

Wolverine: ***

Spider Woman: *

Overall Avg= 2.4 stars (not bad)

Wolverine gets three stars yet Spider-Woman gets one?!?

Originally posted by Grimm22
Wolverine gets three stars yet Spider-Woman gets one?!?

nuthin wrong wit dat

Originally posted by Grimm22
Wolverine gets three stars yet Spider-Woman gets one?!?

No kiddin. Jessica Drew actually brought depth to the roster. Wolverine was there for fanboys to buy the comic.

I liked Wolverine in it, but Jessica was great.

Defenders pwn Avengers IMO. We need a new one.

Originally posted by Grimm22
Wolverine gets three stars yet Spider-Woman gets one?!?

That's what I was thinking...

Originally posted by Grimm22
Wolverine gets three stars yet Spider-Woman gets one?!?

Not a big fan of her character, sorry to dissapoint.
Maybe its cuz she was acting as a double agent earlier in the NA series.

I did like NA 23 when she tells Hydra to go to hell. Perhaps ill give her a 2 for that. Hopefully she grows on me.

Wolverine when written correctly is one of the more interesting characters in all of Marvel. People are so caught up in fanboys that they begin to hate a character for it. I still enjoy reading anything with him, and don't care about how many fanboys there are.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
No kiddin. Jessica Drew actually brought depth to the roster. Wolverine was there for fanboys to buy the comic.

Why cuz she was a female? ok... i guess. She was alright. Echo is a female, and Ronin might end up being one as well. Dr. Strange brings plenty "depth" to the team. We have't even heard who the rest of the team are.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Their numbers have been steadily declining actually, people are getting tired of this book.

Thats not actually true. The book's numbers have gone down from from the first issue (a tread nearly every book follows), but the numbers for the most part have been holding steady and even rising in some cases.

http://www.newsarama.com/marketreport/2006_year_end.html

Not even factoring the CW issues New Avengers are still a consistent top seller and with New Avengers 19 and 20 outselling 16, 17 and 18 there goes your theory about decreasing sales huh.

And for those going on about bad reviews, most of those come from fans who are just upset that Bendis has destroyed the Avengers. Most reviews, or at least the ones I've seen, have been fairly positive with a few exceptions. Issues like 16 where a whole lot of nothing happened was a waste of money and the Sentry arc didn't clear up as much things as I would have hoped.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Not a big fan of her character, sorry to dissapoint.
Maybe its cuz she was acting as a double agent earlier in the NA series.

I did like NA 23 when she tells Hydra to go to hell. Perhaps ill give her a 2 for that. Hopefully she grows on me.

Wolverine when written correctly is one of the more interesting characters in all of Marvel. People are so caught up in fanboys that they begin to hate a character for it. I still enjoy reading anything with him, and don't care about how many fanboys there are.

Wolverine is an x-man

Not an avenger

Besides, when he's not with the astonishing x-men, or going on his own solo adventures or going on his origins adventures, where would he have time to be on the avengers?!?

Originally posted by marvelprince
Thats not actually true. The book's numbers have gone down from from the first issue (a tread nearly every book follows), but the numbers for the most part have been holding steady and even rising in some cases.

http://www.newsarama.com/marketreport/2006_year_end.html

Not even factoring the CW issues New Avengers are still a consistent top seller and with New Avengers 19 and 20 outselling 16, 17 and 18 there goes your theory about decreasing sales huh.

And for those going on about bad reviews, most of those come from fans who are just upset that Bendis has destroyed the Avengers. Most reviews, or at least the ones I've seen, have been fairly positive with a few exceptions. Issues like 16 where a whole lot of nothing happened was a waste of money and the Sentry arc didn't clear up as much things as I would have hoped.

It's selling well now due to Tie-ins just like how Fantastic Four was struggling but the tie-ins allow it to bring up it's numbers.

Actually it is decreasing you even admited it yourself, it sells well but without a tie-in they WERE going down. Those were tie-ins

No, I don't mind some of Bendis work such as his brillant work in Daredevil and Powers. I dropped the book not because of Bendis, but because the book didn't live up the hype. I have no problem against change, but really since the start of the series what has the New Avengers done?

There were the first few issues with the breakout, which were okay since they were meant to be introductory. Then the antarctic vibranium thing, which was meh. Then the Sentry stuff, which was meh. Then the Ronin stuff which was both meh and relatively pointless. Then came HoM and Decimation. The Collective stuff which mainly consisted of Iron Man and Sentry, while everyone else watched. And now Civil War tie-ins.

Annnnnd for today we have....

Power Man & Iron Fist! Together Again!
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=97902

And Cage is apparently the leader of this ragtag Avengers team...

Aw, you beat me to posting the link Lucid. Good job. Honestly I'm not at all surprised Luke is to be team leader. Bendis has been grooming Cage for this and with Cage generally being Caps right hand man it makes sense if Cap's not around for him to take over. From the looks of the preview pages Luke is still a fugitive post Civil War. I'm a little bit confused cause Danny is known as Iron Fist but yet we see the Mighty Avengers simply talking to him (as if they are inquiring about Luke) instead of just bringing him in. Hopefully with the end of Civil War that scene will make more sense.

I'm a very happy man right now. All I need is Spider-Man's annoucement tomorrow and I'll be as cool as a cucumber

Originally posted by King_Mungi
It's selling well now due to Tie-ins just like how Fantastic Four was struggling but the tie-ins allow it to bring up it's numbers.

Actually it is decreasing you even admited it yourself, it sells well but without a tie-in they WERE going down. Those were tie-ins

No, I don't mind some of Bendis work such as his brillant work in Daredevil and Powers. I dropped the book not because of Bendis, but because the book didn't live up the hype. I have no problem against change, but really since the start of the series what has the New Avengers done?

No they weren't. I was careful to leave out the Civil War tie-ins out of my response but the issues prior to the tie ins (The Collective Arc) sold better than the Spider-Woman arc (Secrets and Lies) and the Collective prologue.

As for what they've accomplished. They've discovered a rogue faction of SHIELD in the Savage Land, discovered that villians are being secretly stockpiled, introduced a new villian in the form of the New Super Adaptoid, weaved a mystery about Spider-Woman's loyalties, went public, made a move to reduce street crime, tried to make some sense of the Sentry, got a new hq and battled the Collective (which set up more conflict between the team and SHIELD and introduced a new character in Michael). By all means not a whole lot but to say they've accomplished nothing is selling them a bit short. Ronin was pretty pointless btw

Yeah, i think it's pretty obvious Spider-Man's gonna be the final reveal. Not a typical Avengers line-up, and i can already hear the "street-level" whinging, but i'm looking forward to it.

Luke Cage and Iron Fist isn't much of a surprise, but at least they've finally thrown together some characters with a bit more history and chemistry together.

It's not so much the street-level thing, and it's not so much the lack of the more classic/traditional Avengers that seems off to me... it's that it just seems like a random assortment of characters with no real ties to each other being mixed together. Maybe it will work... iunno.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Luke Cage and Iron Fist isn't much of a surprise, but at least they've finally thrown together some characters with a bit more history and chemistry together.

It's not so much the street-level thing, and it's not so much the lack of the more classic/traditional Avengers that seems off to me... it's that it just seems like a random assortment of characters with no real ties to each other being mixed together. Maybe it will work... iunno.

Well what ties do they need? There were for the most part a team pre-Civil War. All thats new is that Danny is there, and he was with Cap and Co. from day one in Civil War, and Dr Strange. Isn't like they're just being flung together now without a premise. They were a team before the war, fought together during the war and its strange to see them together afterward?

Echo is harder to place, but see was a member completing a mission abroad. Missions ends so she comes back to the team. Iron Fist wasn't there pre-CW but he was there during plus he's best friends with Luke and has a history with Spider-Man and Wolverine. Wolverine wasn't there during the war but he was a member prior to it and Dr Strange is also very good friends with Spider-Man. Doesn't seem very random imo

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Luke Cage and Iron Fist isn't much of a surprise, but at least they've finally thrown together some characters with a bit more history and chemistry together.

It's not so much the street-level thing, and it's not so much the lack of the more classic/traditional Avengers that seems off to me... it's that it just seems like a random assortment of characters with no real ties to each other being mixed together. Maybe it will work... iunno.

I'm sure it'll work, financially speaking. Anything with Avengers on it sells like hot cakes.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Well what ties do they need? There were for the most part a team pre-Civil War. All thats new is that Danny is there, and he was with Cap and Co. from day one in Civil War, and Dr Strange. Isn't like they're just being flung together now without a premise. They were a team before the war, fought together during the war and its strange to see them together afterward?

Echo is harder to place, but see was a member completing a mission abroad. Missions ends so she comes back to the team. Iron Fist wasn't there pre-CW but he was there during plus he's best friends with Luke and has a history with Spider-Man and Wolverine. Wolverine wasn't there during the war but he was a member prior to it and Dr Strange is also very good friends with Spider-Man. Doesn't seem very random imo Pre-CW they had Captain America and Iron Man there as centrepoints. The pre-CW NA wasn't exactly the benchmark for team line-ups anyway.

Already noted that having the Luke Cage/Iron Fist pair up again is positive thing.

You really don't think this line-up-

Echo
Ronin (depending on who's inside)
Wolverine
Dr Strange
Spider-Woman
Luke Cage
Iron Fist
and probably Spider-Man

-is kinda random?

On another note... Dr Strange is going to take orders from Luke Cage?

Originally posted by H. S. 6
I'm sure it'll work, financially speaking. Anything with Avengers on it sells like hot cakes.

Cause the Avengers were always big draw points? Honestly pre-Bendis the Avengers weren't that hot. Now to say the book will only sell cause of the name isn't giving credit where credit is due.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Pre-CW they had Captain America and Iron Man there as centrepoints. The pre-CW NA wasn't exactly the benchmark for team line-ups anyway.

Already noted that having the Luke Cage/Iron Fist pair up again is positive thing.

You really don't think this line-up-

Echo
Ronin (depending on who's inside)
Wolverine
Dr Strange
Spider-Woman
Luke Cage
Iron Fist
and probably Spider-Man

-is kinda random?

On another note... Dr Strange is going to take orders from Luke Cage?

No I don't think it's random cause there was a point for them to be together. Take out Civil War and the fact that they were Avengers pre-CW then I could see your point.

And what's wrong with Dr Strange taking orders? Has he really shown that he doesn't any respect anyone's leadership in the past?

Originally posted by marvelprince
No they weren't. I was careful to leave out the Civil War tie-ins out of my response but the issues prior to the tie ins (The Collective Arc) sold better than the Spider-Woman arc (Secrets and Lies) and the Collective prologue.

As for what they've accomplished. They've discovered a rogue faction of SHIELD in the Savage Land, discovered that villians are being secretly stockpiled, introduced a new villian in the form of the New Super Adaptoid, weaved a mystery about Spider-Woman's loyalties, went public, made a move to reduce street crime, tried to make some sense of the Sentry, got a new hq and battled the Collective (which set up more conflict between the team and SHIELD and introduced a new character in Michael). By all means not a whole lot but to say they've accomplished nothing is selling them a bit short. Ronin was pretty pointless btw

That's because Alpha Flight, I know a crap load wanted to buy it as they wanted to know why it was "Alpha Flight last battle" and then a huge outrage arised. Prompting ideas being made for Omega Flight.

AF in their first volume saved the world three times with the same number of issues they have had. What they did is very marginal, Ronin was a waste I hope Echo or the new Ronin do something other than the lackluster ark with ninjas.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
That's because Alpha Flight, I know a crap load wanted to buy it as they wanted to know why it was "Alpha Flight last battle" and then a huge outrage arised. Prompting ideas being made for Omega Flight.

AF in their first volume saved the world three times with the same number of issues they have had. What they did is very marginal, Ronin was a waste I hope Echo or the new Ronin do something other than the lackluster ark with ninjas.

Alpha Flight's final battle was billed as the prologue, which sold less than all the other issues of that Arc.

Alpha Flight certainly accomplished a lot but simply because you can knock off things off of your to-do list quickly doesn't make you more efficient at it or make it a more interesting story.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Alpha Flight's final battle was billed as the prologue, which sold less than all the other issues of that Arc.

Alpha Flight certainly accomplished a lot but simply because you can knock off things off of your to-do list quickly doesn't make you more efficient at it or make it a more interesting story.

Of course, because people wanted to know what happened to them afterwards. We still didn't even find out. The outrage came out of New Avengers #16 and continued for months afterwards.

No, but you compare what New Avengers have done it's very very very very low on the totem pole. They really havn't done anything major and that's a fact. Their stories wern't even that interesting and that's why I dropped it. Luke Cage civil war tie-in is what I feel the best in the series. The annual was another great comic, but the rest were meh!

Originally posted by marvelprince
No I don't think it's random cause there was a point for them to be together. Take out Civil War and the fact that they were Avengers pre-CW then I could see your point.

And what's wrong with Dr Strange taking orders? Has he really shown that he doesn't any respect anyone's leadership in the past? IIRC Captain America wanted to assemble a new team of Avengers, with the instigating factor being that a large number of villains had escaped from The Raft - something they never particularly followed up on that I can remember.

Luke Cage, Spider-Woman, Wolverine and Spider-Man are the returning members of the NA. The latter two being there at all I've always seen as more of a marketing device. If they had done anything particularly noteworthy in the past two years then I might see your point more, but they didn't really. I don't particularly see Luke Cage as a tie that binds such a ragtag group, in the same way a Captain America, or even an Iron Man could.

Like I said it might work. I dunno. Still find it random.

Also I think you're overreacting a little bit to these less-than-scathing criticisms.

Edit: Oh, and I just can't personally see Luke Cage ordering around the Sorcerer Supreme, just as I couldn't see him telling Uatu or Roma or the Silver Surfer what to do. Just seems off.

I hope the team gets some flyers or energy attack users or they could be in trouble tactics wise.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
IIRC Captain America wanted to assemble a new team of Avengers, with the instigating factor being that a large number of villains had escaped from The Raft - something they never particularly followed up on that I can remember.

Edit: Oh, and I just can't personally see Luke Cage ordering around the Sorcerer Supreme. Just seems off.

Basically the Ronin ark somewhat did as the Silver Samauri escaped from the Raft however, they havn't been persuing the criminals other than that

Even in Defenders Strange never really took orders, Nighthawk couldn't give him any

Originally posted by King_Mungi
I hope the team gets some flyers or energy attack users or they could be in trouble tactics wise. If they have to face the Mighty Avengers and Strange isn't there they're royally screwed. Even with him there, iirc Sentry overcame Strange's magic.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If they have to face the Mighty Avengers and Strange isn't there they're royally screwed. Even with him there, iirc Sentry overcame Strange's magic.

Pretty much, I don't see how they can compete unless the secret character is Thor or watch Tony Stark as a major shocker. Yeah and Sentry made out with the Void afterwards...cooky

The way I see it, they're either going to have to

a) depower Strange... a lot... like a lot a lot
b) make him have practically nothing to do with the day-to-day activities of the team - maybe just provide transport and an HQ in the Sanctum Sanctorum
or
c) have every single issue being the other 7 characters engaged in a tough battle, nearly lose, and then have Strange save the day.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The way I see it, they're either going to have to

a) depower Strange... a lot... like a lot a lot
b) make him have practically nothing to do with the day-to-day activities of the team - maybe just provide transport and an HQ in the Sanctum Sanctorum
or
c) have every single issue being the other 7 characters engaged in a tough battle, nearly lose, and then have Strange save the day.

They have, they even admited it. They said he needs to meditate just to go into astral form but he could do it without doing that

and pretty much, I just hope they have some other heavy hitter or they will be in trouble unless their powers combined have the greatest PIS/CIS any team ever has.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Of course, because people wanted to know what happened to them afterwards. We still didn't even find out. The outrage came out of New Avengers #16 and continued for months afterwards.

No, but you compare what New Avengers have done it's very very very very low on the totem pole. They really havn't done anything major and that's a fact. Their stories wern't even that interesting and that's why I dropped it. Luke Cage civil war tie-in is what I feel the best in the series. The annual was another great comic, but the rest were meh!

That doesn't make sense. If one issue is billed as their final battle why would you look to the latter issues to find out what happened. Also we get confirmation that the team has in fact bit the dust in issue 17 so why did numbers continue to climb for 18, 19 and 20?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
IIRC Captain America wanted to assemble a new team of Avengers, with the instigating factor being that a large number of villains had escaped from The Raft - something they never particularly followed up on that I can remember.

Luke Cage, Spider-Woman, Wolverine and Spider-Man are the returning members of the NA. The latter two being there at all I've always seen as more of a marketing device. If they had done anything particularly noteworthy in the past two years then I might see your point more, but they didn't really. I don't particularly see Luke Cage as a tie that binds such a ragtag group, in the same way a Captain America, or even an Iron Man could.

Like I said it might work. I dunno. Still find it random.

Also I think you're overreacting a little bit to these less-than-scathing criticisms.

Edit: Oh, and I just can't personally see Luke Cage ordering around the Sorcerer Supreme, just as I couldn't see him telling Uatu or Roma or the Silver Surfer what to do. Just seems off.

I don't understand where you're going with this. You said before that the team seems random and I said considering they were for the most part a team before and during Civil War it makes sense they'd stick together afterwards. Not sure where that other stuff comes in. Btw, not sure how I'm overreacting. I see something I don't think is right so I address it. I, at least I hope, that I'm being civil.

Also, guess I'm more used to Bendis' Cage. In HoM Cage was leading the resistance, plus in NA it was obvios Bendis was grooming him for a bigger role. I guess Strange, while he strikes me as the guy who'll ignore you and do his own thing doesn't seem like he'll tell you to shove it if you give him a command.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Basically the Ronin ark somewhat did as the Silver Samauri escaped from the Raft however, they havn't been persuing the criminals other than that

Even in Defenders Strange never really took orders, Nighthawk couldn't give him any

Eh, The Ronin arc was pretty pointless. Just used to reinforce concepts already established (Jess working both sides, SHIELD being corrupt, etc). And then the reveal that Ronin, a very built individual, is Echo (a character I loved from Mack's run on Daredevil) was a big letdown imo.

Even though today's reveal was obvious, it still was a relief

And Spidey is NOT going to be the final reveal. He's staying in NY and the NA are going to be moving across the country on the run.

But a Avengers team without Cap, Iron Man or Thor? Say it ain't so

Originally posted by marvelprince
That doesn't make sense. If one issue is billed as their final battle why would you look to the latter issues to find out what happened. Also we get confirmation that the team has in fact bit the dust in issue 17 so why did numbers continue to climb for 18, 19 and 20?

Eh, The Ronin arc was pretty pointless. Just used to reinforce concepts already established (Jess working both sides, SHIELD being corrupt, etc). And then the reveal that Ronin, a very built individual, is Echo (a character I loved from Mack's run on Daredevil) was a big letdown imo.

Because we wanted to know if they were killed or not. Don't you remember the huge uproar? Interviews after the incident from Bendis directly comments there is something to come from Alpha Flight and at that time we didn't know what. Then several interviews from Joe made comments about Alpha Flight, and how they would be getting a push

It was pointless, I didn't like it one bit.

Originally posted by marvelprince
I don't understand where you're going with this. You said before that the team seems random and I said considering they were for the most part a team before and during Civil War it makes sense they'd stick together afterwards. Not sure where that other stuff comes in. Btw, not sure how I'm overreacting. I see something I don't think is right so I address it. I, at least I hope, that I'm being civil.

Also, guess I'm more used to Bendis' Cage. In HoM Cage was leading the resistance, plus in NA it was obvios Bendis was grooming him for a bigger role. I guess Strange, while he strikes me as the guy who'll ignore you and do his own thing doesn't seem like he'll tell you to shove it if you give him a command.No, you're being perfectly civil, but these aren't exactly really harsh criticisms. Not everyone is going to like it, or think this line up is a good fit, while I'm sure others will like it. I just happen to be one of the former. They seem random to me, even pre-CW they did, but then they were tied together by veteran Avengers. It's just a personal feeling of randomness.

The Collective arc also seemed somewhat pointless to me btw... the only book that has really dealt with HoM is X-Factor.

Originally posted by King_Mungi
Because we wanted to know if they were killed or not. Don't you remember the huge uproar? Interviews after the incident from Bendis directly comments there is something to come from Alpha Flight and at that time we didn't know what. Then several interviews from Joe made comments about Alpha Flight, and how they would be getting a push

It was pointless, I didn't like it one bit.

But wouldn't the fans be more interested in the issue that is billed as their final battle as opposed to issues that didn't even mentioned them in solicits

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
No, you're being perfectly civil, but these aren't exactly really harsh criticisms. Not everyone is going to like it, or think this line up is a good fit, while I'm sure others will like it. I just happen to be one of the former. They seem random to me, even pre-CW they did, but then they were tied together by veteran Avengers. It's just a personal feeling of randomness.

The Collective arc also seemed somewhat pointless to me btw... the only book that has really dealt with HoM is X-Factor.

I understand your stance. Just giving my two cents on why I felt it wasn't random. All imo of course.

I didn't like the Collective much either. I didn't think it was bad, but for such an immense threat the severity of the situation failed to grab me. For my taste it was a little too out there and frankly for such a "big" threat very little was done to make me care. Most interesting parts of the story was Spider-Man on the helicarrier and the reintroduction of Daisy Johnson.

Originally posted by marvelprince
But wouldn't the fans be more interested in the issue that is billed as their final battle as opposed to issues that didn't even mentioned them in solicits


Have you seen the actual issue? it was an insult to AF, they were killed off-panel people were going to boycott New Avengers till Bendis the day after made his comments. They appeared in a total of two pages, but New Avengers #17 showed them fighting the Collective but only one panel.

There were those who wanted to see Wolverine's reaction seeing his "parents" die. However, Bendis really didn't do anything in that regard.