Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

If you have any querys or you disagree with the info presented, then please make them in a thread of your own making. This thread is ONLY for scans relating to Phoenixes origins, character testimonies on the Force and positive feats for the Force.

Any negative or derogatory posts regarding Phoenix will be reported immediately

With all of that out of the way, lets get the ball rolling.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If you have any querys or you disagree with the info presented, then please make them in a thread of your own making. This thread is ONLY for scans relating to Phoenixes origins, character testimonies on the Force and positive feats for the Force.

Any negative or derogatory posts regarding Phoenix will be reported immediately

With all of that out of the way, lets get the ball rolling.

By Crom!

Can you post real scans this time like not cutting out Stranger of the scan to make it look like people are bowing to Phoenix?

Wooooooot! This had to bee done.

didn't take long for the peanut galllery to show up...by crom!!!

Originally posted by manorastroman
didn't take long for the peanut galllery to show up...by crom!!!

By Crom!

I wil respect Phoenix, when you stop with 50% of your bullshit.

50% that should be still to much...

The Phoenix Force is the Big Bang of a reality

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/26111214624.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35823165273.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35823501044.jpg

STFU.

He'd tried to do a respect thread, why come in here and spam it up with insults? Bloody idiots.

Yeah you might be right. I feel you. But let's see what he brings into this.

It is the life force of reality:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/33713140723.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/33713140791.jpg

The energies of creation which powers life

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29812591238.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29812591285.jpg

It was reborn in the Big Bang event. It is those energies made sentient.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213341872.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29815392027.jpg

The sentient hawk like firebird is its avatar within reality and is described as an expression of the universal life force:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29813174990.jpg


By manifesting a consciousness through this avatar the Phoenix burned through the energies reserved for future generations

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29813174987.jpg

Originally posted by "V"
STFU.

He'd tried to do a respect thread, why come in here and spam it up with insults? Bloody idiots.

Agreed by Crom!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It was reborn in the Big Bang event. It is those energies made sentient.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213341872.jpg
I sense scan-manipulation again with this one...

The Phoenix Force perpetuates the cycle of a universe. Its rebirth as the Big Bang sees a universe born and it is the power that brings reality to a close in the natural scheme of things:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35822474849.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35822504460.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35822550519.jpg

Its prime avatar is Jean Grey and she is sometimes used to perform the Forces work:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35823383960.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35823383969.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35823384043.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35823384094.jpg

Originally posted by Rewmac
I sense scan-manipulation again with this one...

Its from Classix X-men issue 8 Story 2. It details the space shuttle incident with Jean Grey. Thats the first page of story 2. Get hold of that issue and then come back on here and apologize.

Something wrong with the right side dude...

The Phoenix Forces involvement in reality is that which powers the process which sees the abstracts replaced by an evolved humanity:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27415223787.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27415223751.jpg

The Stranger supports this notion put forward by Prosh by visualizing a Phoenix Force engulfed D.N.A chain spiralling from Earth up into space becoming Eternity:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29812235718.jpg

The result of this process, the evolved humanity are said to replace the fundamental forces and take up their positions in the next universal cycle. Phoenix powering this process is therefore in line with on panel statements attributing the end of the cycle to Phoenix.

Eternity says the Force gives life to everything, when it starts the cycle again after the death of the old one:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27415324393.jpg

That is why he calls it the "Rsurrection Force" he says its the assurance of life.

Originally posted by Rewmac
Something wrong with the right side dude...

Get hold of the comic and then come back and apologize. Stop throwing unjustified accusations.

The Phoenixes connection to the Big Bang and evolution are even stated in other realities.

In Ultimate X-men it is believed to be the Big Bang:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27414341913.jpg

It is also regarded as a driving force behind evolution:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27414341996.jpg

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Get hold of the comic and then come back and apologize. Stop throwing unjustified accusations.

You can see Cyclops on the right side.

Further to this evolution connection, it is said to "burn away what doesnt work"

Here Jean exterminates a race she deems to be evolutionary deadends

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1214372279.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1214403323.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1214372350.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1214372353.jpg

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Get hold of the comic and then come back and apologize. Stop throwing unjustified accusations. The funny thing I have the comic.

Originally posted by Kallark-Kent
You can see Cyclops on the right side.

You silly boy. Its a scan and hes on the other side of the page.

Are you really going to argue that the statements are referring to Cyclops?

Follow my previous suggestion and go get hold of the comic

Originally posted by Rewmac
The funny thing I have the comic.

Obviously you dont or you would be in here accusing me of manipulating the image.

Originally posted by Rewmac
The funny thing I have the comic.

Then, you should know there is no scan manipulation.

GS, you should just continue to do your job.

I have the comic like I told you. An I don't have proof shit to you. Anyway a question. I only could have a look on Endsong for a couple pages I'm about to get it. But how did Emma use the Phoenix Force?? I saw something like that. I saw 3 scans.

Originally posted by Xplosive
Then, you should know there is no scan manipulation.

GS, you should just continue to do your job. For more information Do This

Originally posted by Rewmac
I have the comic like I told you. An I don't have proof shit to you. Anyway a question. I only could have a look on Endsong for a couple pages I'm about to get it. But how did Emma use the Phoenix Force?? I saw something like that. I saw 3 scans.

As I remember, she couldnt use it. She is not an omega.

Originally posted by Rewmac
For more information Do This

We a talking about that scan.

The Phoenix is said to have been made to purify, to eradicate things which could impair the creation cycle it determines.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/812545685.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/812545643.jpg


http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1214572514.jpg

When Galactus tried to separate the Force from its then host Rachel thereby ending its involvement with reality life life started to fade away, beginning with the stars .

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29021195529.jpg

Roma said that the universe would become a void. That is in line with the previous statements about Phoenix being the energies of creation which saturate all within reality bringing it life.

Eternity is dying from a cosmic cancer and says that the only power that can save him is the Phoenix:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35715004741.jpg

Giraud a host from an alternate future timeline, heals from the same disease Eternity is suffering from and then goes on to treat Eternitys wounds:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35715004899.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35715004850.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35715004844.jpg

In What If The X-men Lost The Inferno the Phoenix is again shown in its purifying role when it disinfects Earth from a demon invasion:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/36300223156.jpg

The Phoenixes actions mean that the Living Tribunal doesnt have to destroy the Earth anymore as the Phoenix got rid of the contamination.

Its said that he wont just let her have another human host as her power is too great a threat for the multiverse. It is stated that Phoenix listened to him for now because he knew he was right about her:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/36300223238.jpg

The Phoenix usually manifests through death. It is born into reality through death and it exits through death, that is the way of the Phoenix.


Jean Grey became Phoenix after dying on the space shuttle:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213341949.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213341920.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213341977.jpg

The sum and substance of life hope and dreams. All that is is known to Phoenix.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213342031.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213342087.jpg

The Phoenix interacts with the physical plane from beyond reality via the psyche, while it is the ambient energy of creation, he "Mother of the stars" there is more to it than just what you see in reality

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213342113.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213342112.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213342150.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213342259.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213342242.jpg

Phoenix dies for a purpose, she dies for the purpose of being reborn, for that is the way of the Phoenix. It is born in blood, flame and sacrifice, but always returns:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25812553982.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25812553924.jpg

In the scene as she says that she visualizes the future destruction of New York that Xorn would bring about before killing her.

Further to the point, death is the way through which Phoenix is reborn into reality and the way it exits it. Jean initially became Phoenix after dying and death always has and always will be the path it takes to manifesting. Wolverine released Jeans Phoenix self by killing her:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25812455482.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25812455410.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25812455489.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29211200572.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29211200559.jpg



She had to die to come back; it is the way of the Phoenix. She also states that she doesn’t know how long the Consciousness will let her stay around; in the same issue she would later be killed by Xorn.

As Phoenix Jean saved the multiverse by containing the power of the M'kraan crystal through re-energising the fields which held back this multiversal power

The crystal was blinking out out reality as the fields were breaking down

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1216065625.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1216065669.jpg

After entering the crystal the X-men were soon attacked by its defences. A nightmare field:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1216065852.jpg

Jean had already overcome her greatest fear so the field had no effect on her

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1216065975.jpg

Being so close to the crystal (which we would later find out is an access point to the White Hot Room) Jean felt connected to it and found that as reality began to break down she was losing her grip on reality and becoming sucked into the crystal.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1216065921.jpg

Jean analyzes the fields which bound the crystals power and sees what would happen if the power was released. All matter of the universe ould get sucked into the N Galaxies gravity well, collapsing all reality, eventually it would explode outwards with the new Big Bang.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1216065971.jpg

Jean first attempt to heal the crystal fails because she had been pulled so far away from reality that she had little presnce on the physical plane.

Jean then asked Corsair and Storm if she could bind herself to reality via their life forces so she could go about healing the crystal

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1216070074.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1216070084.jpg

Jean begins to heal the crystal and then loses focus and panics. She then draws strength and moral support from her friends and manages to contain the crystal with their help:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1216070167.jpg

Guys, this is utter horse sh*t. If you're going to spam, stay the f*ck out...and I'm not going to be kind to those who ignore me. No person on the forums takes as much heat as GS, so regardless of whether he's right or wrong, anyone who has been a jerk to him based off of differences of opinion should be ashmed of themselves.

...

In the 90's the crystal despite talking from a universal perspective in ita debut, would later get retconned to multiversal status:

http://f10.putfile.com/thumb/7/20910231048.jpg

http://f10.putfile.com/thumb/7/20910302228.jpg

Awesome, there is so much I do not know about the Phoenix.
Um, my only suggestion would be to leave “Title, volume, and issue number”. In case one wants to peruse or read more about that given event, which the feat took place.

I hope you don’t mind if I add this.

2005 FF4 Official Hand Book.
Phoenix Force
http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phoenixforce18cl.jpg
http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phoenixforce28cr.jpg

In an alternate reality instead of killing herself at the end of the Dark P Saga, she had a psychic lobotomy, which removed all of the psychic parts of her brain. She lost her powers.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30623231565.jpg

Then as Cyclops was getting pounded something within her clicked and she gained them again, however she stated that she was weak and at that point she had limits and if even could match those current limits it was Galactus. However at the same time she said her power was getting stronger the more and more she used it.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/3062323159.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30623231586.jpg


http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30623231522.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30623231658.jpg


She faced Galactus and dominated the battle. His energy blasts did nothing to her, whilst hers made him cry out in pain. He retreated claiming that if he stayed he would beat Phoenix.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30623470560.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30623231681.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30623231627.jpg

Claims that went unproven and claims that became irrelevant when Phoenix eventually gained all of her power back and she was corrupted again and consumed by her dark side, lashing out and consuming the universe.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30623231994.jpg

WHAT IF V2 WHAT IF PHOENIX HADNT DIED

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Guys, this is utter horse sh*t. If you're going to spam, stay the f*ck out...and I'm not going to be kind to those who ignore me. No person on the forums takes as much heat as GS, so regardless of whether he's right or wrong, anyone who has been a jerk to him based off of differences of opinion should be ashmed of themselves.

... Well you got some point there buddy...

GS I recently came into that I like the character Korvus. What about the Phoenix Echo in the sword?? How strong is it ??

Originally posted by Rewmac
GS I recently came into that I like the character Korvus. What about the Phoenix Echo in the sword?? How strong is it ??

Havent seen it do anything particularly impressive yet. He easily took down the X-men but then Rachel Grey stalemated him and then some of the Force left the sword to go into Rachel

But the actual thing in Rachel is supposed to be much greater or?

The Force in control of Rachels body stomping Galactus

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29813174730.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29813174893.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29813174854.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29813174873.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29813174837.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29813174888.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29813174923.jpg

Galactus was indeed hungry, but if you actually bothered to read and analyse what was being said as opposed to being an airhead and focusing on the artwork, you'd see Galactus illustrate his limitations as opposed to a being like Phoenix.

He is a limited being. He requires external sustenance. He eats, he exerts, he uses up that energy and needs to eat another planet. Phoenix on teh other hand is hooked up to an unlimited energy source, so while Galactus may be able to hang with her for all of a few seconds, he would eventually use up all his resources whilst she would carry on strong.

Originally posted by Rewmac
But the actual thing in Rachel is supposed to be much greater or?

Id say so. But we'll have to wait and see. Shes probably gonna end up becoming Phoenix within the next few months

Rachel is the limited Phoenix. After the DP Saga the Phoenix decided it would limit the amount of access its future hosts had.


Despite that, Rachel in battle with Necrom destroys a solar system like it was nothing:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30621401443.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30621401591.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30621401542.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30621401587.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30621401560.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30621401573.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30621401639.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30621401668.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/11/30621401640.jpg

I really want to see the true power of the sword. But didn't Korvus had an implant that she can't harm Shi'Ar people? He was cutting them quite on the regular.

Rachel battles Nova and then launches her at Galactus:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1217253344.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1217253421.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1217253475.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29021195428.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29021195465.jpg

Originally posted by Rewmac
I really want to see the true power of the sword. But didn't Korvus had an implant that she can't harm Shi'Ar people? He was cutting them quite on the regular.

Rachel disarmed it i think.

Rachel brings life to an entire barren world by supercharging the worlds life force which had bonded with Meggan

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1217535175.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1217535246.jpg

In another reality, Phoenix stomps Dormammu in seconds:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1218010793.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1218010857.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1218010838.jpg

In the Ultraverse the Phoenix avatar was weaker because it was away from the universe that it is an expression of:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27308042068.jpg

Phoenix is indestructible mutable energy. It can divide itself into many separate, fully functioning Pheonixes:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27310301396.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27310301379.jpg

The Phoenix avatar was used to power a extra-terrestrial vessel. It reformed, drawing itself from the ships systems:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35917153046.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35917153169.jpg

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Guys, this is utter horse sh*t. If you're going to spam, stay the f*ck out...and I'm not going to be kind to those who ignore me. No person on the forums takes as much heat as GS, so regardless of whether he's right or wrong, anyone who has been a jerk to him based off of differences of opinion should be ashmed of themselves.

...

Well said moderator!!

By Crom!

A tribute to GS himself!

Originally posted by FieryBalrog
I thought er... it.. was a girl because of its phoenix obsession

Originally posted by Zenoside
Well...It...is a little flamboyant if you ask me.

Just asking.

Are you going to use evidence from alternative realities and theories that might not be true? Not an insult or attack anyway, but I'd like to know how much of this happened in the 616 universe and how much of it is canon. Thanks

Originally posted by Jyppe
Just asking.

Are you going to use evidence from alternative realities and theories that might not be true? Not an insult or attack anyway, but I'd like to know how much of this happened in the 616 universe and how much of it is canon. Thanks

Unless stated otherwise, all of it is from 616. Nothing ive stated so far is theory, it is just whats stated in the comics. Hope that was helpful

Originally posted by By Crom!
A tribute to GS himself!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Unless stated otherwise, all of it is from 616. Nothing ive stated so far is theory, it is just whats stated in the comics. Hope that was helpful Actually, all What-Ifs have their own universe number.
No What-If is in 616.

Originally posted by bigbran
Actually, all What-Ifs have their own universe number.
No What-If is in 616.

I realise that BB. Read what i said again and see why your response was inappropriate

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I realise that BB. Read what i said again and see why your response was inappropriate I still don't get it.

I think he was talking about you using evidence from alternate realities (nothing wrong with it).
I may be wrong, but that is the way I see it.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Unless stated otherwise, all of it is from 616. Nothing ive stated so far is theory, it is just whats stated in the comics. Hope that was helpful

Not all of it. You had some from the Guardians of the Galaxy timeline, which isn't 616.

At least I don't think it is. Could be incorrect though.

Anywho, before any assumptions come about that I'm bashing, it's very informative.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Not all of it. You had some from the Guardians of the Galaxy timeline, which isn't 616.

At least I don't think it is. Could be incorrect though.

Yeah but ive written that Giraud is a host from an alternate future timeline.

Jyppe asked if i was going to use all stuff from other realities.

I basically said that unless ive stated otherwise then its all from 616.

Bigbran seems to have misundertood what i said and now youre saying something that i realise anyway. I know its from an alternate future and thats why i said it was.

Looking back with a few exceptions, everything that is not from 616 ive said so.

Okey doke.

Anywho, good stuff.

nvm.

I'll add more at the weekend. Way too lazy right now.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Galactus was indeed hungry, but if you actually bothered to read and analyse what was being said as opposed to being an airhead and focusing on the artwork, you'd see Galactus illustrate his limitations as opposed to a being like Phoenix.


I copied this from one of my earlier posts in another thread, which is why the comment might seem out of place.

You guys really need to stop this.....I don't care if you don't like GalacticStorm, im not crazy about him either, but he is trying to make a Respect Thread for the Pheonix, and he is providing ON PANEL evidense for his assertions....




I came to this thread, and saw how the entire opening of his respect thread is loaded with spammers and anti-gs sentiment, that's enough. That's EXTREMELY disrespectful to ruin the opening of his thread with all of your crap.


If you don't like him, ignore him, but don't attack his thread with this bullshit when he is just trying to educate the forum about his favorite character!

BTW, GalacticStorm-


This is a beautiful and enlightening thread...thank for you making it

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
You guys really need to stop this.....I don't care if you don't like GalacticStorm, im not crazy about him either, but he is trying to make a Respect Thread for the Pheonix, and he is providing ON PANEL evidense for his assertions....




I came to this thread, and saw how the entire opening of his respect thread is loaded with spammers and anti-gs sentiment, that's enough. That's EXTREMELY disrespectful to ruin the opening of his thread with all of your crap.


If you don't like him, ignore him, but don't attack his thread with this bullshit when he is just trying to educate the forum about his favorite character!

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Guys, this is utter horse sh*t. If you're going to spam, stay the f*ck out...and I'm not going to be kind to those who ignore me. No person on the forums takes as much heat as GS, so regardless of whether he's right or wrong, anyone who has been a jerk to him based off of differences of opinion should be ashmed of themselves.

...

You're about two pages too late, kiddo. Quit with the lame rebukes and let GS continue his thread.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
You're about two pages too late, kiddo. Quit with the lame rebukes and let GS continue his thread.



No one's talking to you

So what are the primary "Good feat" sources for Phoenix?

New X-Men, right?

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
You're about two pages too late, kiddo. Quit with the lame rebukes and let GS continue his thread.

I actually agree!

Oh, to clear something up with GS and such.

He said, Phoenix respect, it necessarily doesn't need to be 616 phoenix.

Heres Phoenix IX blasting Ubiquitor, an Absolute. Also, an explanation of what an Absolute is:

http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/5866/galacticguardians04017eb2.th.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6150/galacticguardians04008uf9.th.jpg

With the help of Woden and Mjolnir, Ubiquitor is defeated.

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/9717/galacticguardians04020sc5.th.jpg

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
BTW, GalacticStorm-


This is a beautiful and enlightening thread...thank for you making it

Agreed.

Why hasn't this been moved to the respect forum?

Yet more evidence that the Phoenix Force is the ambient energies of creation from which all power within reality is derived from whether directly or indirectly.

In Dr Strange V2 #24 the group of sorcerers from across the timeline called the Creators backed by the power of the Inbetweener built the Cosmic Wheel Of Change:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/3013401219.jpg

They hoped to use its power to swap their form and essences with those of the stars:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/3013401260.jpg

The reason being that the stars as stated by Apalla (a star in human form) in Marvel are the source for ALL energy in the universe both scientific and mystical:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/3013401354.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/3013401353.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/3013401431.jpg

In #25 Strange reiterates both the Creators plans and Apallas account saying that stars are the source of all power within reality both mystical and scientific:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/3013555965.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/3013560093.jpg


The Creators then use their newfound power to create a new reality:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/3013560031.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/3013560153.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/3013560191.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/3013560159.jpg

Altering the laws of reality to the point that Dr Strange could not use his mystical powers as efficiently as before:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/3013560315.jpg

The captions state the stars to be the ultimate source of all energy, electrical, atomic and magical:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/3014105437.jpg

The Ancient One who had become one with Eternity had this connection disrupted by the universal alteration wrought by the Creators:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/3014105544.jpg

The Phoenix Force:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213341872.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213342113.jpg

“Mother of the stars”

The power behind the stars:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29812591238.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29812591285.jpg

All in line with it being the Big Bang turned sentient:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29815392027.jpg

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Phoenix Force:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213341872.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1213342113.jpg

“Mother of the stars”

The power behind the stars:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29812591238.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29812591285.jpg

All in line with it being the Big Bang turned sentient:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29815392027.jpg

Good job

Shouldn't this move to the respect threads?

wow... first post in... forever. finally GS, a Phoenix respect thread

Being a Phoenix an wielder of the Phoenix Force is stated to be the "ultimate mutation" the pinnacle of evolution. A power of a Phoenix is unparallelled telekinesis to give complete and total control over matter and energy at a phenomenal scale. ("Telekinetic Godhood"

Jean as Phoenix perceives things beyond surface level right down to the component parts which compose matter and energy:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/2/3511224166.jpg



Throughout New X-men Jeans telekinesis consistently grew as the Phoenix within began to manifest once again.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25812553826.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25812553853.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25812553864.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25812553949.jpg

It expands until it becomes more than just an expression of her thoughts physically but until Jeans mind becomes in touch with all her surroundings.

Her telekinesis becomes in sync with matter right down to its component parts:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/812545470.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/812545477.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/812545519.jpg

Jean gains total control of matter down to the molecular level allowing her to generate any energy, shape or create any matter:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29211200572.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/29211200559.jpg

Sublime gathers some of Jeans blood to give himself her mutation, access to the Phoenix Force and with it “telekinetic godhood”

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/26616072816.jpg

The Beast gains telekinetic godhood and similarly describes his expanded senses and how all matter responds to his slightest whim.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/813040325.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/813040455.jpg

He telekinetically rewrites E.V.A’s software:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/813040462.jpg

Manipulates Logan at a genetic level, turning off his mutation:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/813040551.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/26616072854.jpg

Before Jean subtracts him from reality and then telekinetically amputates the chronal axis cutting off this future timeline:


http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/813040598.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27306075583.jpg

In the White Hot Room scene we saw Jeans telekinetic godhood demonstrated best with her telekinetic manipulation of all the matter and energy contained within the 616 reality.

After Jeans death heres the original response to Emma:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/36301161393.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/36301161372.jpg

Heres Logan recounting the events which lead to this apocalyptic future in 616

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/27205382383.jpg
We’re told about how the universe is broken and we’re told of a point where this break occurred. (Obviously referring to Cyclops’ response)

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/36301161266.jpg

Heres Jean eventually amputating that future from 616 resulting in the “badly wounded” universe:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/10/27306075583.jpg

To heal the wound Jean is directed to the WHR. She is told to heal this wound she must grow a better future to replace the one she just cut away. Jean travels to the crystal empty handed.

Whilst in the WHR Jean is told her task (the telekinetic control of all of those atoms at once) isn’t as easy as it sounds in training.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25812370174.jpg

Formerly empty handed energy globules appear in her hand and by the next panel she has what we’re told is the badly wounded orphan universe. Despite the Consciousness’ words of caution Jean performed her task with no discernible strain and within the space of a few sentences. She materialized the patient within the hospital and that involved the telekinetic control of all of the universes matter as clearly depicted via the art and the speech.

Please bear in mind that Jean amputated HCT future from 616, thereby wounding it, at which point she was directed to the WHR to treat the patient, she went there at which point she materialized a wounded universe in her hand. It doesn’t get much clearer than that.

Jean is told that to grow a better future to replace the one she cut away, she must water the patient with her hearts blood. I.e To symbolically cut all her ties with reality by urging Cyclops to carry on without her. “Live Scott. Live”

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25811295736.jpg

Heres the resultant altered response to Emma

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25811295749.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25811295730.jpg

What is it she applies her power to which results in an alteration of the events of 616? The patient, the glowing disc in her hand she previously materialized within “the hospital” to treat by growing it a new future. A future she grew by altering Cyclops response. The universe she materialized for treatment was 616. Noone can doubt that.

nice.

GS, do you have any more scans of instances where Pheonix faces Galactus ?

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
GS, do you have any more scans of instances where Pheonix faces Galactus ?

Nah. Theyve only tussled a few times in Marvel. Phoenix has won all of their encounters though as you can see in this very thread

okay

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
What is it she applies her power to which results in an alteration of the events of 616? The patient, the glowing disc in her hand she previously materialized within “the hospital” to treat by growing it a new future. A future she grew by altering Cyclops response.

I concede to part of this,

you deserve your credit, I'm a true debater ... you won Part of the mountain of great discussions this issue produced.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2645/earth2og1.th.jpg
(excerpt from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe)

Jean did hold a Universe in her hands and did Heal it.




The bio doesn't say she "grew it a new future" though...

Jean made Scott Change his mind and the Future (Here Comes Tomorrow) never took place, that's how Jean Healed the Universe according to the Official Bio,

and Grant Morrison right here :
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1293/0zc0.th.jpg
(excerpt from the Questionnaires addressed to the Writers, last page New X-Men #155)

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The universe she materialized for treatment was 616. Noone can doubt that.

But I won this Part old friend,


"Here Comes Tomorrow" did NOT take place on Earth 616:
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5711/earth1dz5.th.jpg
Here Comes Tomorrow, took place on Earth-15104,


an Alternate Reality/Universe that diverged from 616,

like ALL "What If" Universes/Realities


Thus, the "Badly Wounded Orphan" Universe is NOT 616 ... but 15104.





note: (my source)

The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7159/earth4zt4.th.jpg
Alternate Universes 2005

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/5001/earth5fd3.th.jpg

Here Comes Tomorrow bio
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5960/earth3mx7.th.jpg


We both won.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I concede to part of this,

you deserve your credit, I'm a true debater ... you won Part of the mountain of great discussions this issue produced.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2645/earth2og1.th.jpg
(excerpt from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe)

Jean did hold a Universe in her hands and did Heal it.

Im happy to see you've finally seen sense.




Originally posted by Mr Master
The bio doesn't say she "grew it a new future" though...

Jean made Scott Change his mind and the Future (Here Comes Tomorrow) never took place, that's how Jean Healed the Universe according to the Official Bio,

and Grant Morrison right here :
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1293/0zc0.th.jpg
(excerpt from the Questionnaires addressed to the Writers, last page New X-Men #155)

The bio doesnt need to say the words "grew a new future" for that to have been the case on panel. Wording something different is irrelevant when the words used to describe the event have the same meaning.

As shown on panel Jean amputated the Here Comes Tomorrow future from the universe thereby leaving reality without a future. Jean rectified this by altering events (i.e Scotts reaction to Emma) thereby resulting in a new future. One to replace the amputated HCT future. By doing so Jean "grew" reality a new future as it were. You have disproved not a thing.

Originally posted by Mr Master
But I won this Part old friend,


"Here Comes Tomorrow" did NOT take place on Earth 616:
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5711/earth1dz5.th.jpg
Here Comes Tomorrow, took place on Earth-15104,

The HCT was the future of 616. It wasnt a separate reality until Jean amputated it. If you look at the above scan it references the events of 616 and then refers to the events which lead to this future.



Thank you for providing me with evidence to prove my point. If you read the bio you'll see that by changing events within the reality in her hand, she made sure that Cyclops of 616 responded to Emma differently:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2645/earth2og1.th.jpg

If the reality in her hand wasnt 616 then how was she altering 616 events by altering events within that reality in her hand?

It says that by changing 616 Cyclops' reaction she ensured the HCT future never came about. How would she do that if the HCT future wasnt the previous future of the 616 reality?

The Here Comes Tomorrow arc was the apocalyptic future of 616. Jean amputated that future from 616. She materialized 616 in her hand and then she healed the universe she had wounded via the amputation, by altering the events of 616 (as actually stated) meaning that Cyclops of 616 never abandoned Emma and the School but instead stuck with her thereby making sure the Here Comes Tomorrow future never came about.

The Here Comes Tomorrow future became separate from 616 and thereby gained a new continuum designation when it was amputated and therefore separate from 616.



Originally posted by Mr Master
We both won.

Not the case at all.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The HCT was the future of 616. It wasnt a separate reality until Jean amputated it. If you look at the above scan it references the events of 616 and then refers to the events which lead to this future.

That's not what the Bio says, but I'll let you live.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Thank you for providing me with evidence to prove my point. If you read the bio you'll see that by changing events within the reality in her hand, she made sure that Cyclops of 616 responded to Emma differently:

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2645/earth2og1.th.jpg

If the reality in her hand wasnt 616 then how was she altering 616 events by altering events within that reality in her hand?

GS,

come on, come on ...

ALL What IF Comic Books are Divergents of the 616 Reality.

(I know you know this)


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It says that by changing 616 Cyclops' reaction she ensured the HCT future never came about. How would she do that if the HCT future wasnt the previous future of the 616 reality?

"ensuring that at least ONE Apocalyptic Future would not come to Fruition"
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2645/earth2og1.th.jpg

Like I said, and like the purpose of the Bio,

it's a Divergent Timeline that now never even happened.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Here Comes Tomorrow arc was the apocalyptic future of 616. Jean amputated that future from 616. She materialized 616 in her hand and then she healed the universe she had wounded via the amputation, by altering the events of 616 (as actually stated) meaning that Cyclops of 616 never abandoned Emma and the School but instead stuck with her thereby making sure the Here Comes Tomorrow future never came about.

The Here Comes Tomorrow future became separate from 616 and thereby gained a new continuum designation when it was amputated and therefore separate from 616.

None of this is mentioned in the Bio,

it's there for all to read, but this is your place,

so as you wish.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Not the case at all.

Originally posted by Mr Master
That's not what the Bio says, but I'll let you live.




GS,

come on, come on ...

ALL What IF Comic Books are Divergents of the 616 Reality.

(I know you know this)

Of course, but the difference is that the HCT future was 616s future until it was amputated forcefully by Jean. Thats when it became separate and gained its own designation. The alternate universes depicted in What Ifs are natural breaks from the main continuity, theyre not enforced by some outside cosmic force.




Originally posted by Mr Master
"ensuring that at least ONE Apocalyptic Future would not come to Fruition"
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2645/earth2og1.th.jpg

Like I said, and like the purpose of the Bio,

it's a Divergent Timeline that now never even happened.

It never happened as far as 616 is concerned but in terms of the Marvel multiverse it happened and was referenced by 616 Jean within 616.

Here Comes Tomorrow

"genetic obsolescences"

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1214372353.jpg

Endsong

Jean even says "Here comes tomorrow", refers to killing the bug people and once again "genetic obsolescences"

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/1/1812055619.jpg




Originally posted by Mr Master
None of this is mentioned in the Bio,

it's there for all to read, but this is your place,

so as you wish.





The bio mentions a streamlined version of the events, it cant and doesnt include every detail, it just gives a summary. As long as something occurs and is mentioned on panel and the bio doesnt contradict it then ommission from the bio doesnt equate to it not having happened.

Once again: If the reality in her hand wasnt 616 then how was she altering 616 events by altering events within that reality in her hand?

It says in your bio that by changing 616 Cyclops' reaction she ensured the HCT future never came about. How would she do that if the HCT future wasnt the previous future of the 616 reality?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Of course, but the difference is that the HCT future was 616s future until it was amputated forcefully by Jean. Thats when it became separate and gained its own designation.

Actually Jean Amputated the Future in issue #154.

Here Comes Tomorrow began in issue #150.

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5711/earth1dz5.th.jpg
Here Comes Tomorrow, took place on Earth-15104 and began in issue #150


So it couldn't have been Jean

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The alternate universes depicted in What Ifs are natural breaks from the main continuity, theyre not enforced by some outside cosmic force.

They were enforced by Grant Morrison who decided to place the Here Comes Tomorrow Arc 150 Years in the Future.


Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It never happened as far as 616 is concerned but in terms of the Marvel multiverse it happened and was referenced by 616 Jean within 616.
Here Comes Tomorrow
"genetic obsolescences"
Endsong
Jean even says "Here comes tomorrow", refers to killing the bug people and once again "genetic obsolescences"

This doesn't explain away why in yet another Official 2006 Bio it's called

Earth-15104


"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5749/n2uo1.th.jpg
(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)


It even says Phoenix amputated the Alternate Future OF Reality 15104 ... NOT of Reality 616 which then became 15104.

(obviously she did it in #154, Here Comes Tomorrow began on page 30 - in New-Xmen #150)




This is ONE of many possible Futures that could have Diverged from the 616 Reality, but thanks to Phoenix it will definitely never happen.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The bio mentions a streamlined version of the events, it cant and doesnt include every detail, it just gives a summary. As long as something occurs and is mentioned on panel and the bio doesnt contradict it then ommission from the bio doesnt equate to it not having happened.

Once again: If the reality in her hand wasnt 616 then how was she altering 616 events by altering events within that reality in her hand?

It says in your bio that by changing 616 Cyclops' reaction she ensured the HCT future never came about. How would she do that if the HCT future wasnt the previous future of the 616 reality?

Because the Reality in her hands was already Reality 15104,
it became that Reality the moment Scott set in motion the chain of events that led to Here Comes Tomorrow.

Jean dies on page 30 of New-Xmen #150
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5701/xm15030wx9.th.jpg


Page 31 of New-Xmen #150 - and 150 YEARS have passed.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4042/xm15031es8.th.jpg


Page 01 in New X-Men #151 - starts at 150 Years in the Future (NOW it's Alternate Reality 15104)
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/738/xm15101az0.th.jpg




This is what lead 616 to Diverge into this Alternate Reality 15104

Page 19 in New X-Men #151 ... 150 Years Earlier on Earth 616
http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/6192/xm15119oo8.th.jpghttp://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4057/xm151192qp1.th.jpg

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7204/289898714yf.th.jpg

Scott decides to quit.
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5702/s2uu3.th.jpg




Phoenix intervenes by reaching into this moment 150 Years ago on 616 and changes Scott's mind.
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7331/pf12va8.th.jpg
"Live Scott"

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/3479/endjl2.th.jpg
In order to ensure that 616 would not Diverge into the Here Comes Tomorrow Future of Reality 15104

I'd like to know really what category does phoenix fit into? What abstract level is it?

Mr M. Theres one flaw to your logic. If the universe in her hand was not 616 then why in making changes to the past of this alleged alternate universe in her hand would she directly make changes to 616?

The Phoenix of Here Comes Tomorrow is the same Jean of 616. During the HCT story arc the past of that reality shes in is referred to as her past, she acknowledges it as her past.Why would this be the case if the universe she was in was not 616?

The HCT future is stated to have been set 150 years in the future of 616. You yourself admit that the HCT future is derived from 616 so surely by cutting off that future as it is stated happened, Jean is going to be left with the 616 reality as we know it?

The handbook stating that the future 15104 started in issue 150 of New X-men doesnt disprove my point at all. Thats true, thats when we as readers first saw this alternate future. It is an alternate future because it is no longer connected to 616 the core reality, it is no longer the future of the 616 timeline. Just like how the AOA reality was what 616 turned into after Legions tampering with the past, but by going back in time to when said reality was still 616 as we knew it and altering events Bishop made that AOA reality diverge into a separate continuity and set 616 back on track again. AOA wasnt a separate reality until the events which brought it about were altered and thats when it gained its different continuum designation. Before then it was what 616 had become which is precisely why the M'kraan crystal went crazy because events werent the same and Jean wasnt around to heal the crystal as she did as events were meant to occur in the core reality.

Back to HCT

616 went apocalyptic in the 150 years after Jeans death.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/27205382383.jpg

Jean eventually amputated this 150 years of future, leaving behind the 616 as we know it in the present.

This action wounded the universe. Jean was advised that in order to heal this wound she would have to make a better future grow.

Jean materialized the universe within the crystal and she was later told that if she wanted to grow a new future to replace the one she had cut away (HCT future) she would have to symbolically water it with her hearts blood. I.e urge Cyclops to move on without her, thus altering the events which lead 616 into the HCT future thus making sure it never took place.

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/9/25811295736.jpg

As the handbook states Jean healed the universe by doing this symbolic watering with her hearts blood altering the past of 616.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2645/earth2og1.th.jpg


HCT was just the future of 616 that Jean cut off. It was a part of 616 up until that point. Jean cut it off, it then got its own continuum designation.

Originally posted by Ethereal
I'd like to know really what category does phoenix fit into? What abstract level is it?

The Phoenix isnt an abstract. Its a sentient force of nature. Its beyond the absracts in terms of power and role.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Mr M. Theres one flaw to your logic. If the universe in her hand was not 616 then why in making changes to the past of this alleged alternate universe in her hand would she directly make changes to 616?

It's simple friend,


Here Comes Tomorrow is a Divergent Timeline, that's it.

A possible Future for the 616 Reality, but it was Never a Certain Future.


That Universe took form because of Scotts decision 150 Years Ago, Grant Morrison's way of getting away with the story.

No wonder there wasn't a single extra cameo from a character Other than X-Men related, It's a Global epidemic and No one else know about it?

This story (Here Comes Tomorrow) was enclosed in this Alternate Reality 15104 the second this story began 150 Years in the Future.

(I mean What? ... Only the X-Men exist in the Future of 616?)

See, that's silly.



So, by the time Jean Amputates the Future Deep in the Arc in issue #154,

the Story has been taking place in Reality 15104 since issue #150.

the Future of,

Earth-15104

"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5749/n2uo1.th.jpg
(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)

"In ONE Future" (there are many Possible Futures)


Phoenix amputated the Alternate Future OF Reality 15104 ... NOT of Reality 616 which then became 15104.



Ok that's all, cool debate.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Phoenix isnt an abstract. Its a sentient force of nature. Its beyond the absracts in terms of power and role.

Well..this is what I took from a Q&A bio/description from marvel:

"Was the Phoenix Force born in a previous universe?

"Yes and no, the Phoenix Force is one of the few cosmic entities born from a previous universe. When it was born exactly is unknown, but it is known that it dies with the previous universe and is reborn in the next universe as a new creature with the memories of its predecessor."

Originally posted by Mr Master
It's simple friend,


Here Comes Tomorrow is a Divergent Timeline, that's it.

A possible Future for the 616 Reality, but it was Never a Certain Future.


That Universe took form because of Scotts decision 150 Years Ago, Grant Morrison's way of getting away with the story.

No wonder there wasn't a single extra cameo from a character Other than X-Men related, It's a Global epidemic and No one else know about it?

This story (Here Comes Tomorrow) was enclosed in this Alternate Reality 15104 the second this story began 150 Years in the Future.

(I mean What? ... Only the X-Men exist in the Future of 616?)

See, that's silly.



So, by the time Jean Amputates the Future Deep in the Arc in issue #154,

the Story has been taking place in Reality 15104 since issue #150.

the Future of,

Earth-15104

"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5749/n2uo1.th.jpg
(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)

"In ONE Future" (there are many Possible Futures)


Phoenix amputated the Alternate Future OF Reality 15104 ... NOT of Reality 616 which then became 15104.



Ok that's all, cool debate.

Reality 15104 was illustrated to be derived from 616. It came about from Cyclops reaction in 616 and was what 616 became 150 years after Cyclops decision.


It wasnt a divergent timeline otherwise 616 would have existed at the same time as this reality and would have run alongside. That wasnt the case. 616 as we know it didnt exist, it had become this future.

If it was a divergent timeline that became its own reality altering the events of 616 would have no affect on this alleged other reality. By altering the past of 616 do you change the history of What Ifs?

The reality Jean had in her hand was 616. As stated Jean amputated the HCT future, therefore she was left with 616 as we know it. By amputating the HCT future it was no longer THE future but A future that thanks to Jeans actions would no longer come to pass. That was the point it gained its own continuum designation.

Theres just too much evidence against your opinion. All you have is a handbook giving a different reality reference (15104) however that is insufficient as it is right to have a different reference as it is no longer a part of 616 and we saw that occur on panel. Hnadbooks complement on panel accounts, they are not substitutes for them. Your handbook reference is explained away on panel.

It has been good debating with you, but its got to the point where youre not debating anymore, youre merely ignoring my questions and just reposting your argument.

I will post my questions again:



If you do NOT answer my questions then i will not take kindly to you posting in this thread again and i will take the necessary actions.

If you do however answer my questions (with reference to conclusive on panel evidence) then thank you very much and i will gladly respond to you.

... I don't know... I've looked at the evidence, but it seems obvious to me that the universe WAS 616 but was no longer connected, since it was amputated. Thus, it became 15104 because it was disconnected from the prime reality (616).

Originally posted by King Kandy
... I don't know... I've looked at the evidence, but it seems obvious to me that the universe WAS 616 but was no longer connected, since it was amputated. Thus, it became 15104 because it was disconnected from the prime reality (616).

Exactly the way i saw it.

Originally posted by King Kandy
... I don't know... I've looked at the evidence, but it seems obvious to me that the universe WAS 616 but was no longer connected, since it was amputated. Thus, it became 15104 because it was disconnected from the prime reality (616).

The Future of 616,

where only the X-Men exist.


If it was 616 until it was disconnected, and then it became 15104,

what happened to the original 616?




It was magically Re-Created?




Jean Amputated the Future in issue #154.

Here Comes Tomorrow began in issue #150.

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Here Comes Tomorrow bio)
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5711/earth1dz5.th.jpg
Here Comes Tomorrow, took place on Earth-15104 and began in issue #150





"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5749/n2uo1.th.jpg
(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)


It clearly says "Phoenix amputated the Alternate Future OF Reality 15104" ...

NOT of Reality 616 which then became 15104.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Future of 616,

where only the X-Men exist.


If it was 616 until it was disconnected, and then it became 15104,

what happened to the original 616?




It was magically Re-Created?

Your argument comes from not understanding the concepts. It was just a future, 150 years of it to be precise, it was not an entire timeline, just a snippet of one derived from 616. It was 616's future an apocalyptic one which resulted from the Cyclops and Emma incident in 616. When Jean amputated that future, that 150 years of timeline, what was left, what she materialized in the white hot room, was 616.

The future she amputated, no longer having anything to do with 616

1) because Jean physically amputated it

2) because Jean altered the 616 event which spawned it thereby making that future non-existent

then gained its own continuum designation, reality 15104




Originally posted by Mr Master
Jean Amputated the Future in issue #154.

Here Comes Tomorrow began in issue #150.

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Here Comes Tomorrow bio)
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5711/earth1dz5.th.jpg
Here Comes Tomorrow, took place on Earth-15104 and began in issue #150

Here Comes Tomorrow did debut in issue 150. Whats your point? What exactly do you think that proves? Thats correct. The debut of reality 15104 was in issue 150, however as shown on panel, it wasnt amputated from reality until 154 and it wasnt replaced with another future (by Jeans past alteration) until said issue as well. Up until that point it derived from 616 and the handbook entry illustrates that point by talking of how 15104 was replaced by Jean altering the past of 616.

If 15104 wasnt just the future of 616, it was a divergent reality, not only would altering the past of 616 NOT have an affect on it, but it would have existed alongside the 616 reality. It didnt. It existed instead of it. Thats the very reason Jean cut it off and then changed 616s events to ensure that future didnt come about.



Originally posted by Mr Master
"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5749/n2uo1.th.jpg
(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)


It clearly says "Phoenix amputated the Alternate Future OF Reality 15104" ...

NOT of Reality 616 which then became 15104.

Its "ONE future" because Jean amputated it making it just ONE future instead of THE future of 616 that it previously was.

You've confused yourself. Once again HCT was a segment of the timeline. It was just 150 years of future stemming from that Cyclops/Emma event of 616. It was the future of 616 until Jean amputated it from 616 and before she changed events making it so it never existed. Thats when it became reality 15104. The reference is just to distinguish it.

Its all explained away and illustrated on panel and even in that bio which perfectly depicts it to have been a previous future of 616. Look at how your queries are easily answered and then look at how you cant explain away mine with your interpretation. Does that not tell you something?

Youre ignoring my questions and continually posting the same argument which ive handled. Thats no better than spamming.

Unless you are going to respond to my previous questions do NOT post in my thread. This is the last warning.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
If you have any querys or you disagree with the info presented, then please make them in a thread of your own making. This thread is ONLY for scans relating to Phoenixes origins, character testimonies on the Force and positive feats for the Force.

Any negative or derogatory posts regarding Phoenix will be reported immediately

With all of that out of the way, lets get the ball rolling.

Of course, I do

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre ignoring my questions and continually posting the same argument which ive handled. Thats no better than spamming.

do NOT post in my thread. This is the last warning.

What's the point of continuing this, I see it the way I see it, and you see it another way,


Whatever,

as you wish.

Originally posted by Mr Master
What's the point of continuing this, I see it the way I see it, and you see it another way,


Whatever,

as you wish.

Once again.

Its all explained away and illustrated on panel and even in that bio which perfectly depicts it to have been a previous future of 616. Look at how your queries are easily answered and then look at how you cant explain away mine with your interpretation. Does that not tell you something?

Dont be so stubborn, admit that you cannot answer my questions with your theory and step out, or provide on panel backed answers to justify your theory. You cannot do the latter so youre agreeing to disagree and youre ducking out. So be it.

I said all I needed to say on the matter.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/437478_6-respect-the-phoenix-shifty


Let the onlookers decide.

I'm sick of seeing you 2 go back n forth.

http://ic3.deviantart.com/fs7/i/2005/193/9/2/Phoenix__by_diablo2003.jpg

Tons of info GS, very nice thread. Good Job.

The Phoenix Force manifests within reality to perform “Phoenix work”. This is usually with the goal of perpetuating the creation cycle.

Here wielding a fragment of the Force, Celeste ends the threat of a major explosion that would’ve destroyed the complex and everyone within, by freezing time in a localized area with a thought:


http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13614433757.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13614433720.jpg

As her fellow clones were created to destroy the mutant population and be a means for the entity Sublime to dominate all life on the planet Celeste wielding the fragment destroys them all:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13614433728.jpg


Hundreds of diamond hard, super strong mutants shattered with ease


Again the Forces manifestations in reality are explained and justified:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13614433781.jpg


Once again the point that Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force are one and the same thing is driven home:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13614433815.jpg

Emma couldn’t look at the fragment and distinguish between the two because they are one and the same. Jean is its human face

GS,

When you get some free time, you should revamp this thread, putting most of your Phoenix scans/info together.


There's 7 pages, but most of it is childish spam from other users.



Just an idea.

.

Originally posted by Galan007
GS,

When you get some free time, you should revamp this thread, putting most of your Phoenix scans/info together.


There's 7 pages, but most of it is childish spam from other users.



Just an idea.

And a good one at that. I'll do it sometime soon. Just looking through some issues of Excalibur where Rachel pulls off some impressive feats.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And a good one at that. I'll do it sometime soon. Just looking through some issues of Excalibur where Rachel pulls off some impressive feats. Cool...


Looking forward to seeing it.

Excalibur travel to an alternate reality which is dominated by an enormously powerful reality warping mutant called Alfie O Meagan who has shaped their world to his vision:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13615560664.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13615534942.jpg

Alfie attacks Rachel and she defends herself:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13615535048.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13615535022.jpg

Alfie, egged on by Jamie Braddock who is watching from 616 angers and transform himself into a Galactus like being and attacks in earnest:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13615535143.jpg

Only to be dominated by Phoenix:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13615535134.jpg

Alfie like Braddock is so powerful he can shape reality around him to his whim and use it to attack his enemies. With his power he created a television set from which he can survey the multiverse and interact with other realities. Here he’s talking with 616’s Braddock. With the remote he created he can forward and rewind time, skip moments in time or reset events.

Braddock entertained by the events in the events reaches through the tv and tries to stop Nightcrawler from getting to the remote and ending the fight. Braddock accidentally presses the rewind button and as an extension of Alfies power, the remote rewinds Jamies actions and sends him back to 616:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13615535237.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13615535237.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13615535252.jpg

Concerned about Rachels battering of Alfie Nightcrawler forwards time to see whats about to happen:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13615535220.jpg

Rachel gets caught up in her emotions and incinerates the reality warper.

Rachel hears a psychic cry from baby Nathan(Cable) and flys off in a burst of energy to rescue him:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13711150962.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13711150996.jpg

Thinking about her brother, Rachel subconsciously recreated Kitty in his image as she flew off:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13711150978.jpg

The others claim how that that was a facet of the original Phoenix's(Jean) power, to rearrange reality around her to coincide with her conscious and subconscious desires:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13711263068.jpg

Opal Luna Saturnyne omniversal majestrix, considers Rachel a threat to reality that cant be allowed to roam free:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13712325576.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13712325519.jpg

After tapping into the Phoenix power, Mastermind equates it to Gods power and claims it gives him omniscience:

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13712382240.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13712382273.jpg

http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/5/13712382258.jpg

Mastermind craved the Phoenix power after having first been given a taste of it by Jean Grey in Uncanny X-men 134:

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/33711192567.jpg

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/33711192677.jpg

Here Jean made his mind one with the universe

great thread keep up the good work prove to every one without a doubt that the phoenix is the s@#$. lol

Are the Phoenix Force and Living Tribunal the oldest entities in entire Marvel Universe?

Originally posted by Xplosive
Are the Phoenix Force and Living Tribunal the oldest entities in entire Marvel Universe?

Well as shown in X-men Adventures which is canon, the Force was operating before the current multiverse was born, so it along with LT are among the oldest beings in Marvel creation.

TOAA is older since it created them in the first place

Originally posted by Endless Mike
TOAA is older since it created them in the first place

Ummm of course the supreme being is going to come before its creations. That goes without saying.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
TOAA is older since it created them in the first place

Well, that is logical TOAA is the oldest.

I love Pheonix she is so cool n powerful ! Majestic to the max !

Originally posted by Endless Mike
TOAA is older since it created them in the first place Phoenix is drawn with alot of Yellows and Reds and Oranges!

Can you post some feats done by Jean operating with & with out the PF?

Some well deserved High Points to keep in mind.



Rachael (Excalibur #50 )
Here is Rachael wasting a planet in one shoot.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1935/excalibur050p25bj1.jpg

Rachael vs. Necorm, Necrom tosses two moons at her, and super ignites planet to form a sun.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/5673/excalibur050p26ub3.jpg
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7525/excalibur050p27xy1.jpg

Rachael vs. Necrom fight escalates and devastates an entire Solar System.
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9683/050p28om7.jpg

Rachael sates that if the match would have continued, the universe would have bin destroyed.
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3581/050p29kc2.jpg

Dark Phoenix (Uncanny X-Men 135 )
Dark Phoenix absorbs the sun, and consequently the sun goes through rapid accelerated growth.
Becoming a Supernova, devastating a solar system (in a sense), with near by planets destroyed as a casualty. Dark Phoenix was in the dead center, and suffered no damage.
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/9677/xmtdps124rn4.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8541/xmtdps125qp0.jpg
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/2748/xmtdps126du7.jpg

Dark Phoenix *What If volume 1 #27*
Dark Phoenix Destroys the universe.
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/8057/whatif2734fk7.jpg


Jean ~White Phoenix of the Crown (New X-Men 154)
WPofC, amputates a reality from the multiverse telekinecly. And shows some grand scale atomic control.
She damn nears kills the reality, from losing focus.
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7941/15420ct1.jpg
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/1081/15421jq1.jpg
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/451/15422nc5.jpg
Jeab ~ WPotC (X-Men End Song #5)
WPotC, stops an actual singularity (Black Hole). I doubt the Earth would have surved, being compressed/crushed infinitely by gravity and cosmic energy/radiation.
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9706/endsongpage21nt9.jpg
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/3927/endsongpage22jd0.jpg
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6673/endsongpage23su6.jpg

In the Necrom fight, Rachel fered her power to use and destroy Necrom, so she let Necrom touch it, but Necrom found out that Phoeix Force power is infnite and it destroyed him.

Originally posted by Xplosive
In the Necrom fight, Rachel fered her power to use and destroy Necrom, so she let Necrom touch it, but Necrom found out that Phoeix Force power is infnite and it destroyed him.

Something of that nature, apparently not all characters can willfully handle the full scope of the Phoenix power. Necrom being one of them.

Well here it goes.
What If “Rise and Fall of the Shi’ar Empire”

When Vulcan unexpectedly enters the M’Kran Crystal. He falls into the nightmare field…however he seemingly ascended to the White Hot Room. This is because he becomes the new “Phoenix Force Avatar”. The other Avatars are not content with this happening, and deem Vulcan unfit to be next Avatar. However Gabriel disagrees, and proceeds to seemingly take his powers and kill him (along with the others).
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5155/whatifdcp0005kz3.jpg
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/3958/whatifdcp0007gs3.jpg
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2589/whatifdcp0009ba0.jpg
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7985/whatifdcp0011tu5.jpg

He obliterates all opposition, the Shi’ar Empire is destroyed in a single strike..you even see planets shatter at the manifested rage from Vulcan. Only Racheal and Havoc survive because they escape through teleportation. They are not sure who or what caused a stargate to seemingly open. They think it was the Phoenix.
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/3833/whatifdcp0012ir8.jpg
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6569/whatifdcp0013mc4.jpg
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/2413/whatifdcp0015yd9.jpg

Vulcan destroyed 1/3 of the annihilation wave along with Annihiuls himself. Nova pleads Ronan to escape. However again, Vulcan destroys the Kree Empire. And The Watchers comment, that the Phoenix “Consumed” a galaxy, it was the 7th galaxy to fall.
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2357/whatifdcp0019cd0.jpg

Vulcan engages the X-Men. The match takes place in the island, it was frozen and destroyed to pieces. However it is now alive, and intact. Apparently wielding the PF holds no real limits to what it can do.
http://img488.imageshack.us/img488/4479/whatifdcp0023rj6.jpg
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6047/whatifdcp0024gm2.jpg

However, he is loosing control. This is because the Phoenix (Jean Grey) is holding back its power.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/330/whatifdcp0027uz9.jpg
http://img455.imageshack.us/img455/4193/whatifdcp0029cs1.jpg

Rachael warns Gabriel (thanks to the mind link), that the Phoenix Force reacts poorly to negative emotions. The consequences of losing total control will not only consume himself but the entire “Reality”.
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4695/whatifdcp0032ey8.jpg

Finally letting go of rage, and hate. He proceeds to halt his rampage, and except his death.
http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/4913/whatifdcp0035zo2.jpg

All the not so cryptic talk, and cryptic actions are revealed. Its none other then Jean Grey.
http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2406/whatifdcp0037bu1.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/5710/whatifdcp0040xf1.jpg

Comments: I have to admit I had my doubts, on how Vulcan would wield the PF. Or what kind of PF showings we would see. But just wow, lots of high end collateral damage if your into big fancy destruction. - Id