Darn You George

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Lee-San28
Other than this fact i really have no problem with you as a artist and a Great Director but ..................Come on Geore your killing us jedi fans

My Angry thoughts go out to George for this Terrible display of Great jeid dieing in the most pathetic ways

Sasee Tin
Ki Adi
Agen Kolar
Kit Fisto
Ploo Koon

Come on george they where masters for crying out loud they diserve to go out in better glory that the way they did i mean they where the best of the best and they die terribly

i only wish he was acually reading this lol :]

Thoughts ???..........love to hear em!

General G
I think that was his point, that even the "best of the best" as you referred to them, were all fooled by Sidious's plot and were caught totally unexpected. But I think that was better, not worse, it gave it more emotion, except for the ones Sidious killed in 0.45 seconds, that was bad, but I guess he was trying to show how powerfuk he really was.

((The_Anomaly))
Yes they were masters. But there is a select few in SW that are FAR above the "regular" masters.

You have the "pretty good" Jedi like Kit etc. Then you have people like Anakin, Mace, Yoda, Sidious, Dooku, and to a lesser extent Obi-Wan who are a in a whole different league then the next people below them. Meaning that there is a huge gap in power between people like Kit and someone like Yoda. Lucas made it this way to show how powerful the top top tier of Jedi/ Sith are when compared to all the other force users.

aldisyoyo
lesser extent??????? u suck butt

queeq
Yeah... And why would Ki-Adi Mundi be worse than MAce? What reason do you have to believe that?

BuddTwang
I thought their deaths were great. Especially Ki-Adi's because it shows that they're betrayed. It really shows even Jedi don't know everything. And it also shows how cruel the emperor actually is

Council#13
I liked the way that most of the Jedi were killed. Completely caught unaware. It was really touching. However, I was upset with the way that Saesee Tiin, Agen Kolar, and Kit Fisto died. I've liked Saesee since I first saw him.

Lee-San28
IF you wach the movie in slow motion George makes his son the Padawan at the temple kill like 5 or 6 jedi while Ki Adi dosnt kill one of them

vintageSW77
yeah i didnt notice that either
the Jedi with one of the biggest kill scores of all onscreen in ROTS is Lucas son!
he kills as many as Anakin

reason #122 why i hate the PT

Darth Subjekt
Originally posted by Lee-San28
IF you wach the movie in slow motion George makes his son the Padawan at the temple kill like 5 or 6 jedi while Ki Adi dosnt kill one of them i assume you meant clones.
Originally posted by vintageSW77
yeah i didn't notice that either
the Jedi with one of the biggest kill scores of all onscreen in ROTS is Lucas son!
he kills as many as Anakin

reason #122 why i hate the PT i concur.Originally posted by queeq
Yeah... And why would Ki-Adi Mundi be worse than MAce? What reason do you have to believe that?
For the fact that Mace was second only to Yoda. How's that for ya? All those Jedi that were betrayed, didn't see shit coming, some masterful Jedi there, huh? Yoda sensed it and too the necessary actions...

The rest died as they deserved to...

queeq
What fact? What canon fact do you have?????

sithsaber408
It's not cannon but Nic Gillard (stunt coordinator and sword master for the pt) said that mace was second only to yoda when trying to come up with a fighting style for him.

Darth Subjekt
A respected Jedi on par with the venerable Yoda, Mace Windu was a senior member of the Jedi High Council. His wisdom and experience were legendary, and his words carried great weight. Though a member of the High Council since the age of 28, this did not dull Windu's fighting edge or his willingness to venture forth on dangerous missions. His exploits are legendary, and he was an inspiration to his fellow Jedi, leading through rigorous example and steady discipline.
In his day, Mace was one of the best lightsaber fighters of the Jedi order. It was said only two opponents ever bested him -- Yoda, and Dooku. Only the most skilled of the Jedi could master the his Form VII discipline of combat -- the deadly technique known as vaapad -- for its aggressive nature treaded dangerously upon dark side practices.
- StarWars.com Databank.

Unless youwant to argue that Ki was equal to Yoda, then it speaks for itself. And yes, being that its from the OS, it's quite canon.

queeq
So why did Yoda lose from Palpy, and Mace didn't???

BuddTwang
Originally posted by Lee-San28
IF you wach the movie in slow motion George makes his son the Padawan at the temple kill like 5 or 6 jedi while Ki Adi dosnt kill one of them

Mundi was so shocked by the betrayal that even when he defended against the clones he wasn't fully realizing what was happening.

The padawan knew exactly what he was doing.

vintageSW77
Order 66 was a botched job visually
though ill admit i liked the Plo Koon and Mundi deaths
Mundi was one of the PTs underused potentials....id have liked him to have had more screen time
although Alya Secura couldnt even fall right....how hard is it to fall over?

its just a shame Lucas didnt give Anakin something worth slaughtering in SITH like he did his son Jet
- some unarmed cowards,a couple of holo Jedi and giving THE WORST CHILD ACTOR OF ALL TIME an evil look isnt what we wanted George

queeq
Nope.. he failed to show the Tusken slaughter. I could forgive him for that, but no slaughter in ROTS????

General G
Originally posted by queeq
So why did Yoda lose from Palpy, and Mace didn't???

BECAUSE SIDIOUS WAS FAKING!!!! He knew Anakin was coming and wanted to look vulnerable to Anakin so that he would turn and betray the Jedi. Sidious had the opportunity to strike down Mace, which is very clearly seen in ROTS.

Lana
Hasn't this all been discussed to ****ing death since the movie came out?

smoker4
Yeap

Stun
Originally posted by Lee-San28
Other than this fact i really have no problem with you as a artist and a Great Director but ..................Come on Geore your killing us jedi fans

My Angry thoughts go out to George for this Terrible display of Great jeid dieing in the most pathetic ways

Sasee Tin
Ki Adi
Agen Kolar
Kit Fisto
Ploo Koon

Come on george they where masters for crying out loud they diserve to go out in better glory that the way they did i mean they where the best of the best and they die terribly

i only wish he was acually reading this lol :]

Thoughts ???..........love to hear em!

cant say it ever bothered me. Down to Sidious' power i guess, but then i never felt too attached to Kit, Agen and Saesee in particular because of their small parts.

General G
Originally posted by Lana
Hasn't this all been discussed to ****ing death since the movie came out?

Yes, it has, but apparently queeq should go back to it stick out tongue

nenarye
Originally posted by General G
I think that was his point, that even the "best of the best" as you referred to them, were all fooled by Sidious's plot and were caught totally unexpected. But I think that was better, not worse, it gave it more emotion, except for the ones Sidious killed in 0.45 seconds, that was bad, but I guess he was trying to show how powerfuk he really was.

Yeah. I cried during that sceane...

And the whole 3 jedi dead in .45 seconds did kinda anger me... mad

vintageSW77
Originally posted by Lana
Hasn't this all been discussed to ****ing death since the movie came out?

not by all

Council#13
Originally posted by Lee-San28
IF you wach the movie in slow motion George makes his son the Padawan at the temple kill like 5 or 6 jedi while Ki Adi dosnt kill one of them

First: You don't need to watch that part in slow motion.
Secondly: Ki-Adi-Mundi killed about 3 of them, moving his blade out of pure instinct.
Thirdy: Ki was caught by surprise. Zett had the element of surprise.

queeq
Originally posted by General G
Yes, it has, but apparently queeq should go back to it stick out tongue

What else should we do here? stick out tongue

Besides, it's never been properly answered.

General Kenobl
Many reasons:

# 1 - The duel between Mace Windu and Darth Sidious was only a lightsaber contest. The duel between Yoda and Darth Sidious was lightsaber, and Force. In terms of Force strength, Sidious is superior to Windu. If the two were to have a rematch and fight in an environment where Force skill and lightsaber skill and both be utilized, I guarantee you Sidious will be the better.

# 2 - Mace's Vapaad and Shatterpoint abilities make him extremely effective against Dark Side users. In addition, it's like Palpatine's first time dueling in a long time, and he's pitted against the 2nd most powerful Jed in the Order. However, when he faces Yoda, he's faced already a guy like Windu, so he won't be totally off balance on the lightsaber skill of the PT Masters.

# 3 - The setting of Yoda vs. Sidious was clearly in an environment biased against our Grandmaster. Sidious was throwing Senate pods thirty times the size of Yoda at our "little green friend". Hence, Yoda had a really tough time out there. If there were to fight in the Chancellor's Office, the fight would have played differently.

The basic fact is that Yoda=Sidious.
Yoda > Windu.
Ergo, by Transitive Property, Sidious > Windu. However, since Windu > Sidious in lightsaber combat, it's obvious that Sidious's mastery of the Force surpasses Mace and that gives him the advantage that proves him better than the Korun master.

queeq
What BS!!

1. In a duel to the death, why would a Jedi or Sith NOT use the Force. The Force guides the actions, so also the lightsabre in a duel. So that is a complete utter BS argument

2. More BS... why would he be off balance? He's in charge and Emperor... And the fighting styles, to weigh it like that is too EU.

3. Size matters not. Yoda could lift an entire X-Wing in his old age.

And transitive property is not allowed here. wink

Alliance
Yes...the Jedi's deaths were lame...

...but then again jedi are lame....

...so it kind of makes sense.

General G
Originally posted by General Kenobl
The basic fact is that Yoda=Sidious.
Yoda > Windu.
Ergo, by Transitive Property, Sidious > Windu. However, since Windu > Sidious in lightsaber combat, it's obvious that Sidious's mastery of the Force surpasses Mace and that gives him the advantage that proves him better than the Korun master.

Just because:

Elephant>mouse
mouse>monkey
DOES NOT MEAN elephant>monkey

because there is no way the elephant is greater than the monkey.

I read this somewhere a long time ago in the star wars vs forum and for some reason it stuck with me stick out tongue , so I cannot take credit for that

queeq
laughing out loud

Alliance
Originally posted by General G
Just because:

Elephant>mouse
mouse>monkey
DOES NOT MEAN elephant>monkey

because there is no way the elephant is greater than the monkey.

I read this somewhere a long time ago in the star wars vs forum and for some reason it stuck with me stick out tongue , so I cannot take credit for that

Unfortunately it is mathematical fact that if A>B and B>C then A>C.

Nice try though. Here in the Republic we still use logic.

General Kenobl
What BS!!



I do not have evidence what were Sidious's intentions or why he didn't use the Force in that duel. Overconfidence perhaps? This argument was heavily debated in the VS. Forum, and the general conclusion is that Sidious > Windu because even though he's not better in terms of the lightsaber, his powerful Force skill makes up for it. And DE Sidious or TPM Sidious can definately slay Mace.



Umm, a Non Sequiter! What does being charge of an Empire have anything to do with going against the unexpected and facing the 2nd most powerful Jedi?



It was not a neutral setting and it was clearly biased against Yoda. I mean, people say Yoda lost, however, he only lost because the Force of reflecting Sidious's lightning pushed him from the pod and he fell. On a flat surface like the Geonosis hangar bay, that would not have happened.



Lol, it's logic. Deal with it!



laughing Er....well if it actually made sense I would argue this.....

General G
Originally posted by Alliance
Unfortunately it is mathematical fact that if A>B and B>C then A>C.

Nice try though. Here in the Republic we still use logic.

Well, then I guess it is a good thing I am with the Confederacy and far away from your pitiful little Republic

Alliance
Yes...the one that kicks your ass.

General G
Originally posted by Alliance
Yes...the one that kicks your ass.

Not true, if the war were to continue and Sidious were to not hae the droids shut down, the CIS would have destroyed the Republic. There were just too many droids and not enough clones.

General G
Originally posted by General Kenobl
It was not a neutral setting and it was clearly biased against Yoda. I mean, people say Yoda lost, however, he only lost because the Force of reflecting Sidious's lightning pushed him from the pod and he fell. On a flat surface like the Geonosis hangar bay, that would not have happened.


But you do admit he lost

Alliance
Originally posted by General G
Not true, if the war were to continue and Sidious were to not hae the droids shut down, the CIS would have destroyed the Republic. There were just too many droids and not enough clones.

*yawn*

Excuses. We won.

General G
Originally posted by Alliance
*yawn*

Excuses. We won.

Nope, the EMPIRE won, the Republic lost.

Alliance
no, the "Empire" was declared after the end of the war.

Besides, a changing a term was no eal distiction.

Lee-San28
From My under standing yoda only lost to sidious becasue after the ligthing break it flung both combatons backwards but sidious esaly weight about 170-180 pounds while yoda weights like 15-20 pounds if that so exo-facto yoda flies farther...its cheap but the truth. :/

Alliance
No. Light does not usually impart a significant physical force. Thats the truth.

Yoda lost because he couldn't compete. He was cocky. He chose to run away.

queeq
Originally posted by General Kenobl
What BS!!



I do not have evidence what were Sidious's intentions or why he didn't use the Force in that duel. Overconfidence perhaps? This argument was heavily debated in the VS. Forum, and the general conclusion is that Sidious > Windu because even though he's not better in terms of the lightsaber, his powerful Force skill makes up for it. And DE Sidious or TPM Sidious can definately slay Mace.



Umm, a Non Sequiter! What does being charge of an Empire have anything to do with going against the unexpected and facing the 2nd most powerful Jedi?



It was not a neutral setting and it was clearly biased against Yoda. I mean, people say Yoda lost, however, he only lost because the Force of reflecting Sidious's lightning pushed him from the pod and he fell. On a flat surface like the Geonosis hangar bay, that would not have happened.



Lol, it's logic. Deal with it!



laughing Er....well if it actually made sense I would argue this.....

THis is all pure speculation based on your views. There is no canon evidence to substantiate your views on the matter.

General Kenobl
I believe in a George Lucas interview, he said that Sidious's Lightning was faked but he said nothing about the lightsaber duel....

W/e, though it's not exactly proven, it's generally believed, especially by most people of the SW VS. Forum.



Please, he ran away because he knew it would be fruitless to continue fighting the Emperor and risk his life and all (I mean, he just fell like what sixty feet from a Senate pod?).

And again, it was unfair setting for Yoda to fight in. Not nuetral at all. I mean, Yoda was able to deflect Sidious's lightning with his bare hands and reflect it back at Palpatine even though he lost his saber.

queeq
Since when do fights have to be on neutral ground?

RichardD
Yoda should have sent Obi-Wan to kill Sidious. The guy never failed in any of his missions. Okay, he needed Anakin's help in Grievous' star-destroyer, but he always seemed to do better when he was on his own.

Alliance
Originally posted by General Kenobl
Please, he ran away because he knew it would be fruitless to continue fighting the Emperor and risk his life and all (I mean, he just fell like what sixty feet from a Senate pod?).

And again, it was unfair setting for Yoda to fight in. Not nuetral at all. I mean, Yoda was able to deflect Sidious's lightning with his bare hands and reflect it back at Palpatine even though he lost his saber.

Wait, wasn't his point to go there and kill the Emperor?

Doesn't that innately involve risk of life? Doens't that involve a little dedication to a fight?

Yoda rushed into a fight cocky, he couldn't compete.

Lee-San28
dude your on crack your just a sidious fan yoda lost cause hese 3 ft tall weights 15 pounds and fell from the pod. and its only 60 ft lets see you through a baby 60ft down and still have the power to get up never mind live. and theres a difrence form jumping down 60ft and falling down 60ft and as far as couldnt compete he wone every sward lock and was blind sided by lighting in the end but still had the power to berak it

queeq
But isn't he sooooooo great in the Force?

Alliance
On crack? laughing out loud Crackheads don't use capitalize letters or complete sentences.

And what Queeq said.

Why was Yoda so cocky? Wasn't he supposed to be some great Jedi master? Maybe he was just a hapless hypocrite.

Lee-San28
when was he cocky to begin with???????

Jack Daniels
yoda is kewl he kicks butt.....he smokes deathsticks and drinks jack daniels!

queeq
Yeah, but he never beat anyone in a lightsabre fight... Not taht we know of at least.

Alliance
Originally posted by Lee-San28
when was he cocky to begin with???????

He told Kenobi that essentially only he was good enough ot defeat the Emperor.

He backtalked the emperor, repeatedly.

He was arrogant, somethign even Sidious noticed.

He was so busy gradstanding the Emperor that he didn't even anticipate the lightning.

Yoda continuously mocked the Emperor.

Not very Jedi like, now is it.

Jack Daniels
blame it on the jack...lol

General Kenobl
In the VS. Forum, if we wish to have a fair fight that accurately judges an opponents power over the other, it's typically in a neutral setting, where a duel can't be stalled and stuff. Example: Mustafar.



Yes, but he realized that it's too risky to fight the Emperor. I mean, he almost got killed out there, and he barely survived that Lightning blast. He knows that he needs to survive, to preserve the Jedi Order.



Despite the spelling, this is actually correct.



He fought against the likes of Palpatine, the most powerful Sith in existence, and managed to stalement. That's impressive.



1) Kenobi isn't even better than Count Dooku. He'll have no chance in hell against the Emperor. Besides, only Obi-Wan can find Anakin and kill him.

2) He wanted an engagement with Palpatine, which does involve some arrogance.

3) Obviously, he didn't to jump on to the Emperor's pod to continue engagement? Sidious took advantage by bombarding him with Lightning, and even though this almost killed Mace WITH a lightsaber, Yoda with his bare hands reflected it.

4) Yoda's probably the most prodigal of Jedi. Every Jedi has some bad qualities or another. Mace is a badass. Anakin is arrogant. Obi-Wan is reckless at times.

queeq
Originally posted by General Kenobl
In the VS. Forum, if we wish to have a fair fight that accurately judges an opponents power over the other, it's typically in a neutral setting, where a duel can't be stalled and stuff. Example: Mustafar.



Can't remember any SW chararcter fighting in the VS. Forum.

All's fair in love and war, neutral ground is something for sports, not war.

Rampant ox
If I recall Yoda and Sidious did start on neutral ground. There was nothing giving either competitor the advantage. By the end of the duel Yoda was on the ground fleeing while Sidious was still on top. To me this proves that a)Sidious is the better duellist or b)He is the smarter duellist for getting into a position that would be beneficial to him eg the Senate Pod. Yoda had all the same opportunities at the beginning but didnt use them, whereas Sidious did - making him the winner.

General Kenobl
Rampant, what neutral ground are you talking about? They both jumped on a pod and started fighting, and one of them accidently pressed the elevate button and they entered the Senate chamber. Yoda's diminuitiveness was a total disadvantage in that arena. And yet he was able to reflect Sidious's Lightning right back at him. However, the opposite reaction knocked him down 60 ft because he was on the edge of a pod.

Rampant ox
Originally posted by General Kenobl
Rampant, what neutral ground are you talking about? They both jumped on a pod and started fighting, and one of them accidently pressed the elevate button and they entered the Senate chamber. Yoda's diminuitiveness was a total disadvantage in that arena. And yet he was able to reflect Sidious's Lightning right back at him. However, the opposite reaction knocked him down 60 ft because he was on the edge of a pod.

They didnt start on the pod though. They start on flat ground in a room next to the Senate Pod if I recall correctly - a room that gave neither competitior an advantage. It was either Yoda's foolishness or Sidious' skill that forced them on to the pod. But the fact is it started neutral and ended in Sids favour.

General Kenobl
Well going by the movie, you see both of them igniting their lightsabers and then jumping onto the pod. Then they start fighting. So obviously somebody must have pressed the elevate button. And it really end in a stalement, I mean, Sidious won because Yoda had little space in pod to cling onto it and thus fell like 60 ft.

Nellis Munn
I read that yodas spirt was broken because of almost all the jedi died didnt you see him drop his cane and hold his heart on the wookie planet...when the jedi were geting killed...?

NUUUUUUUUUU PLO KOON!!...erm sorry bout that...hammer

Alliance
heh heh heh.

queeq
Originally posted by Nellis Munn
I read that yodas spirt was broken because of almost all the jedi died didnt you see him drop his cane and hold his heart on the wookie planet...when the jedi were geting killed...?

NUUUUUUUUUU PLO KOON!!...erm sorry bout that...hammer

Yoda's a softie... not a fighter.

Alliance
Yoda killed Gree, for which I will never forgive him. miffed

Yoda prefers to be backstabbing and dogmatic, manipualating the Jedi into his contradictoy and myopic views, but doean't actually like to go out and follow his own policies.

queeq
Oh he killed a clone. Now I understand your Jedi hate.

Alliance
laughing out loud

As I've said before. Its not the reason. I just have a unique perspective.

Ushgarak
Gosh, if only it were unique.

queeq
laughing out loud

Alliance
I think it is...

...then again, maybe I'm just lumped with "philosophies Ush doesn't agree with"

queeq
And you call them unique...

Jack Daniels
Originally posted by Alliance
Yoda killed Gree, for which I will never forgive him. miffed

Yoda prefers to be backstabbing and dogmatic, manipualating the Jedi into his contradictoy and myopic views, but doean't actually like to go out and follow his own policies.

yeah yoda is a hypocrite thats why obiwan frequents the bars...lol...he figured yoda out long ago...he jus says all that stuff to make the jedi behave if possible.....

queeq
Ya think?

Jack Daniels
absofrigginfruitley...lol

queeq
fruitley?

Nellis Munn
i wanted plo koon to atleast win...YEA KILL ALL CLONES!!.........cursing

Jack Daniels
Originally posted by queeq
fruitley?
fruits_applefruits_cherry

somethin like that....lol

queeq
Cool...

Ushgarak
Originally posted by Alliance
I think it is...

...then again, maybe I'm just lumped with "philosophies Ush doesn't agree with"

Not even close to unique! Egad, I've seen views like that espoused for years.

Actually, for things to go into my 'don't agree with' box, they have to be coherent. This one just goes in my "things that are entirely stupid" box.

queeq
Well, another mystery solved.

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