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Both in their primes, anything goes. Who wins?

There's not much about Ludo except he screamed a pillar into pieces, which really won't work here. And he dueled with Naga and got hurt by a brick and was on the losing side before Ragnos intervened....

Jaina is pretty good.

I am not sure, I might go for Kressh, but Jaina is an NJO Jedi, so lol she wins...

Ludo's physical strength is incredible. We don't know much about his force abilitites except for the fact taht when he gets angry, a mountain starts shaking. He was described a a very powerful sith lord only behind Ragnos and I guess Sadow, so I'd say he takes this rather comfortably.

For a sith to swing a sith sword like a lightsaber is incredible, i Discussed this with lightsnake, Being able to swing a sith sword like a saber is pretty amazing, considering how heavy it is to even wield one properly and what if Ludo used a lightsaber instead?

So in my opinion kreias quote of the ancient sith was an opinion rather than a fact

I don't know, Kreia was a credible source in certain aspects. As a historian her knowledge on the ancient sith was extensive, so most, if not all she said about the ancient sith, was fact.

That's some sufficient proof. Kressh takes this.

Yeah. Right.

The sword of the Jedi owns the talentless moron. that his greatest feat was something he didn't even control should say something

Really...when is this guy a powerhouse? Especially when he got owned by a brick...a f*cking brick...all Jaina has to do is start throwing bricks at him and he'll curl up.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Really...when is this guy a powerhouse? Especially when he got owned by a brick...a f*cking brick...all Jaina has to do is start throwing bricks at him and he'll curl up.
Oh you're right, after getting hit by a brick he went down for the count. Oh wait, he got right back up as if nothing happened. Please, we all realize the anti ancient sith nonsense on this forum, but there's no need to be illogical. He'll crush her with his incredible strength.

What do you mean, got right back up? He was lying flat on the ground and barely recovered.

And omg, his incredible strength! Somehow I doubt he was stronger than Tsavong Lah physically.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
What do you mean, got right back up? He was lying flat on the ground and barely recovered.

And omg, his incredible strength! Somehow I doubt he was stronger than Tsavong Lah physically.

Well, it's good to see you can back up your doubts.. Or not..What is Jaina going to do exactly? OH that's right, nothing.

Use her plain superior fighting skills maybe?

Jaina handled TSAVONG LAH....y'know, the Warmaster of the Yuuzhan Vong?

I don't know some of Jaina's feats. Can anybody who's read up some NJO show this?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Use her plain superior fighting skills maybe?

Jaina handled TSAVONG LAH....y'know, the Warmaster of the Yuuzhan Vong?

and Ludo stalemated Sadow, aka pwnage.

Lemme put it this wya: When Jaina's mad she tapped into the Unifying Force and left several Vong smoking corpses


And Ludo stalemated Sadow? Will you please learn how fights work? The fight was INTERRUPTED, that's NOT a stalemate

Come on Darth Sexy, Kressh was on the losing side of that fight. He was going to go down soon. Naga was able to easily bypass bricks through Ludo's defense.

So is the question now: Could Jaina beat Sadow? Cause if she can or can't could determine her ability to beat Kressh.

Sadow's better than Kressh and Jaina. Considering how the fight was going, Naga would have finished out Ludo soon.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Really...when is this guy a powerhouse? Especially when he got owned by a brick...a f*cking brick...all Jaina has to do is start throwing bricks at him and he'll curl up.
If you got hit by a brick you'd at LEAST get knocked out and could possibly die. Ludo recovered fast enough to block Sadow's next attack. That's pretty impressive.

Barely recovered? No, he got back up and kept fighting.

Really? Didn't that guy give Luke a good fight?

And yeah, the fight between Ludo and Naga was interrupted but seeing as Naga was the only one to get in a hit on Ludo I think we can conclude that Naga is the stronegr of the two. And then he ebcause the Dark Lord of the Sith, too, not Ludo.

Obi-Wan was absolutely fine when DURGE fractured his skull, actually.

And he 'got up' because Sadow was too stupid to finish it there.

And Sadow became the strongest via trickery, not combat. And Luke never fought Tsavong, he fought Shimrra.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Obi-Wan was absolutely fine when DURGE fractured his skull, actually.

And he 'got up' because Sadow was too stupid to finish it there.

And Sadow became the strongest via trickery, not combat. And Luke never fought Tsavong, he fought Shimrra.
Kenobi, with a fractured skull, was losing to Asajj Ventress, when he had the help of a Padawan. Under normal conditions he and Ventress are even.

Sadow tried to finish it there, but Lud,s itll on the gorund, blocked his Sith sword.

If Naga wasn't the strongest someone would have fought him and won. If when Naga declared himself Dark Lord of the Sith, Ludo or anyone else had pulled their Sith Sword on him I'm sure he'd have been glad to fight for the honor.

Naga was the strongest of the time, otherwise you would have seen others vie for that position. I guess some of you forgot how the sith work, but that's ok. The Strongest rules.

What gives Ludo the speed or skill to even compete with her?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Kenobi, with a fractured skull, was losing to Asajj Ventress, when he had the help of a Padawan. Under normal conditions he and Ventress are even.

Sadow tried to finish it there, but Lud,s itll on the gorund, blocked his Sith sword.

If Naga wasn't the strongest someone would have fought him and won. If when Naga declared himself Dark Lord of the Sith, Ludo or anyone else had pulled their Sith Sword on him I'm sure he'd have been glad to fight for the honor.

Huh? I think you mean a 'Kenobi with a fractured skull, poisoned horribly by nerve gass, beaten horribly by Durge'

Again: Sadow let Ludo recover. Naga was the best by TRICKERY, because the Sith were scared. Ludo was apparently strong enough to rival him....in fact, Ludo had no hesitations throwing down earlier

What the f*ck is your point? Am I a fictional character? In a universe where a mystical energy field grants me tremendous physical and mental power? Am I Sith-Human hybrid that is physically superior to both of which? All of them, no. Its not impressive at all, its not impressive that

A. Sadow had to strain to lob a brick

B. Ludo couldn't BLOCK a f*cking BRICK

They both suck

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
What the f*ck is your point? Am I a fictional character? In a universe where a mystical energy field grants me tremendous physical and mental power? Am I Sith-Human hybrid that is physically superior to both of which? All of them, no. Its not impressive at all, its not impressive that

A. Sadow had to strain to lob a brick

B. Ludo couldn't BLOCK a f*cking BRICK

They both suck

Exactly. Sadow lobbed one brick, without enough force to put someone down. Despite that, Ludo still couldn't block it with the force or his sword, or just dodge it.

Ever thought that maybe he moves it really fast or Ludo tried to block it with the Force and Naga was just more powerful so Ludo couldn't stop it?

I'm sorry what? Sadow had to STRAIN to throw a block? That makes no sense, if he had no trouble whatsoever creating entire armies to fight the republic. It's evident that he has SOME mastery of the force.

But he wasn't summoning the army by himself, he had to do it in his meditation sphere, no?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Ever thought that maybe he moves it really fast or Ludo tried to block it with the Force and Naga was just more powerful so Ludo couldn't stop it?

It did, but, seeing as how there is nothing to back that up, and, if the comic was meant to show a greater command of the force, they probably would have had him throwing something bigger, I dismissed it.

A huh, and do tell how he made those armies...its not impressive when jokes like Aleema can duplicate his feats. And I wasn't being totally serious but the point stands he had to put his "angry face" on to do it and it couldn't even kill Ludo. If he's the uber leet master of the force the brick should have went straight through Ludo's head.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
A huh, and do tell how he made those armies...its not impressive when jokes like Aleema can duplicate his feats. And I wasn't being totally serious but the point stands he had to put his "angry face" on to do it and it couldn't even kill Ludo. If he's the uber leet master of the force the brick should have went straight through Ludo's head.

I'm sorry what? Aleema created armies and illusions on the scale of Naga Sadow? And since when was the meditation sphere grounds for creating powerful illusions. It didn't enhance someone's abilities unless you can actually prove it. You guys judge everything by the smallest details, or a lack of information.

Well then what the hell is the point of a meditation sphere if it doesn't enhance force abilities? Why not just sit in a chair?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
And since when was the meditation sphere grounds for creating powerful illusions. It didn't enhance someone's abilities unless you can actually prove it. You guys judge everything by the smallest details, or a lack of information.


Likewise.

All of the Ancient Sith's "1337 Sith Magic" has been used in the presence of some artifcat. Amulets able to produce high intensity beams of energy, Sadow blows up a star while in the presense of his personalship, Sadow creates illusions, but not before getting on his own personal meditation sphere. There is more evidence pointing to the Ancient Sith requiring special artifacts then their is proving that they dont.

Are you guys saying that the ancient sith are weak or something?

Last thing, The POD novels pretty much made naga sadow exar kun and revan all equal in terms of power and ludo kressh is pretty much on par with naga sadow

When has he ever been shown to be "on par" with Sadow? I wouldn't say getting beaned in the head with a snigle brick qualifies as being "on par" with anyone. Sado would have pwnt Kressh had Ragnos not interrupted.

And no one is saying that the Ancient Sith are weak, just not on par with the stronger people of the PT/NJO.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Well then what the hell is the point of a meditation sphere if it doesn't enhance force abilities? Why not just sit in a chair?

Explain how it enhances force abilities? In fact explain the full effects and the schematics of the meditation sphere. Oh that's right, too many assumptions. Why sit in a chair when you can go into a quiet sphere and concentrate? Does that mean your force powers are enhanced, or that you have quiet time in the sphere?

Originally posted by Blaxican
When has he ever been shown to be "on par" with Sadow? I wouldn't say getting beaned in the head with a snigle brick qualifies as being "on par" with anyone. Sado would have pwnt Kressh had Ragnos not interrupted.

And no one is saying that the Ancient Sith are weak, just not on par with the stronger people of the PT/NJO.

I would beg to differ with the likes of Ragnos, Kun, and Nadd.

Originally posted by Blaxican
Likewise.

All of the Ancient Sith's "1337 Sith Magic" has been used in the presence of some artifcat. Amulets able to produce high intensity beams of energy, Sadow blows up a star while in the presense of his personalship, Sadow creates illusions, but not before getting on his own personal meditation sphere. There is more evidence pointing to the Ancient Sith requiring special artifacts then their is proving that they dont.

And yet the ancient sith specifically created artifacts to amplify their power to do unnatural things, and to pass down their history. You don't see anyone doing what they did without the amulet, so the point is moot.

Originally posted by Blaxican
When has he ever been shown to be "on par" with Sadow? I wouldn't say getting beaned in the head with a snigle brick qualifies as being "on par" with anyone. Sado would have pwnt Kressh had Ragnos not interrupted.

And no one is saying that the Ancient Sith are weak, just not on par with the stronger people of the PT/NJO. jaina would stick her lightsaber upLudos flabby ass, But i doubt that she could even survive with naga sadow, Dont forget exars almighty amulets came from that bald headed fella who blows up stars when he is angry.

Besides luke feared the return of ragnos and he knew that it will take the entire jedi academy to even beat him down. He himself said he wouldnt be able to take ragnos alone , But thats Post DE luke, NJO luke would rip him apart and as for jaina i have no idea. Naga sadow is only a few nodes below ragnos

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Why sit in a chair when you can go into a quiet sphere and concentrate? Does that mean your force powers are enhanced, or that you have quiet time in the sphere?

Why make an entirely different, unarmed ship to meditate in when you can instead just use your special captain's quarters that all Ships have? I would assume that it would be much easier to do that, as Thrawn did.



I wouldn't. Ragnos has done nothing that would even imply that he truly is the best of the best. And I would put the likes of Luke and Yoda a firm notch above them both.


Yep. meaning that they would have been unable to pull off such feats without power amplifying artifacts.



hey your right, we actually don't see ANYONE do what they did without the Amulet, even the Ancient Sith. Again, implying that they cannot perform the feats without the use of a power amplifying artifact.

Originally posted by Kadesh
jaina would stick her lightsaber upLudos flabby ass, But i doubt that she could even survive with naga sadow,

I guess I'm lucky that this is a jaina vs. Ludo thread then, huh?

Originally posted by Kadesh
Dont forget exars almighty amulets came from that bald headed fella who blows up stars "with his ship" when he is angry. ,

Originally posted by Kadesh
Besides luke feared the return of ragnos and he knew that it will take the entire jedi academy to even beat him down. He himself said he wouldnt be able to take ragnos alone , But thats Post DE luke, NJO luke would rip him apart

Glad we both agree.

Originally posted by Kadesh
Naga sadow is only a few nodes below ragnos

I would actually put Sadow above Ragnos, as Ragnos has done nothing except beat Simus, a Sith who was so powerful in the force that he could stay alive as just a head, yet he couldn't defend himself against a single blaster bolt, something a barely trained Corran Horn managed to do.

Originally posted by Blaxican
I wouldn't. Ragnos has done nothing that would even imply that he truly is the best of the best. And I would put the likes of Luke and Yoda a firm notch above them both.
Except that he was the most powerful of ALL the ancient sith, and was described as having tremendous strength and a surpassing command/frightening grasp of the dark side. It is also logical that he knew the force drain technique that Nihilus knew, considering his scepter did all that Nihilus did, and more, including giving force abilities to others.



How does this take away from the fact that every devasting darkside attack was derived from the ancient sith? Apparently they knew enough, and the things they wanted to do that was unnatural, they just threw together amulets.
And Sadow above Ragnos? Please. Sadow and Kressh both feared Ragnos. I guess the concept of a 100 year iron fist rule of the entire ancient sith empire eludes you. If that doesn't explain Ragnos' power, nothing will.

Originally posted by Blaxican










I would actually put Sadow above Ragnos, as Ragnos has done nothing except beat Simus, a Sith who was so powerful in the force that he could stay alive as just a head, yet he couldn't defend himself against a single blaster bolt, something a barely trained Corran Horn managed to do. Hold up, naga nearly shit in his pants when ragnos came out with his pimp cane what are you talking about? Naga is never above ragnos and daniel wallace confirmed in his emails to janus that ragnos is the most powerful of the ancient sith, Lightsnake confirms this too and from what luke has stated he is powerful, we just have no idea how

Personally I'd put him under only DE Sidious.

What about revan? Is he third on your list? Hes second for mine

Originally posted by Kadesh
What about revan? Is he third on your list? Hes second for mine

In terms of overall? I don't know. With the LOTF inconsistencies you might have to put Jacen up there.. But for now it's Luke, Sidious, Ragnos. Then maybe Revan, I don't know. In terms of Greatness, I rate Revan second only to Sidious.

screw LOTF, god damm inconsistencies, i know what you mean, Id put Revan above all other LOTF characters save for luke.

For sith list believe it or not but i put vader 3rd behind sidious and revan. He is the most under-hyped sith lord so far. I havnt added ragnos because he hast done anything, exars only well known for his sith magic and his amulets, his force mastery isnt as high as vaders.

Sometimes I think that Jaina is a poser, but she should be able to win.