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What angers you more ?



A Guilty Person NOT being Punished






or






An Innocent Person being Punished







?

Innocent punished.

The guilty guy will get what's coming to him sooner or later.

Innocent being punished...

Especially if they know he or she wasn't guilty.

An Innocent Person being Punished.

So far we all agree......


I also thnk it is far worse for an innocent person to be punished

Depends what the crime was I'd rather have an innocent fined for petty theft than a murderer set free.

Originally posted by quickshot
Depends what the crime was I'd rather have an innocent fined for petty theft than a murderer set free.

Not really comparable. What would you rather have a murderer free or somebody in jail for murder when he didn't do it?

The guilty will meet justice when they die.

innocent person being punished it far worse

I think they're both the same to me.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
So far we all agree......

Because the question was a no-brainer.

If an innocent person is being punished, then by extension, a guilty person is not being punished.

Yep.

Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Because the question was a no-brainer.



You'd be surprised...there are some people who'd be willing to risk sending an innocent person to the death penalty, in effort to prevent a crime.


I will not mention who I am talking about, but myself and a few other people had a debate with a certain someone who argued his extreme hate for peadophiles, and how he'd be willing to kill a man who might be innocent in effort to prevent children from being molested in the future.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
If an innocent person is being punished, then by extension, a guilty person is not being punished.

Not necessarily always the case... What if a person is being wrongfully punished by an imagined or false crime?

i think that this is an open shut case........... an innocent being punished.

Cause guilty people go free LOTS of times.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not necessarily always the case... What if a person is being wrongfully punished by an imagined or false crime?

An imagined or false crime has an imagined or false criminal.

Therefore, if an innocent person is being punished for an imaginary crime, then by extension, an imaginary guilty person is not being punished.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
An imagined or false crime has an imagined or false criminal.

Therefore, if an innocent person is being punished for an imaginary crime, then by extension, an imaginary guilty person is not being punished.

Thats very . . . Alice in Wonerland

What happens if an imaginary innocent person is puinshed by an imaginary court to an imaginary death penalty?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Thats very . . . Alice in Wonerland

What happens if an imaginary innocent person is puinshed by an imaginary court to an imaginary death penalty?






I'd rather an imaginary innocent person not have an imaginary punishment than for an imaginary criminal to get away with imaginary freedom

Originally posted by Lord Urizen




I'd rather an imaginary innocent person not have an imaginary punishment than for an imaginary criminal to get away with imaginary freedom

AWESOME

While I believe that an innocent person being punished is worse, it would make me angrier to have a guilty person go free.

Innocent punished.


A guilty person not being punished isn't an injustice, it's a lack of justice.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Thats very . . . Alice in Wonerland

What happens if an imaginary innocent person is puinshed by an imaginary court to an imaginary death penalty?

Then an imaginary guilty person is not being punished.

Innocent being punished, most definitely.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Then an imaginary guilty person is not being punished.

Yes, yes, but no real guilty person is not being punished so it doesn't matter. Cause...well...real people matter.

Also, in Christianity can't the guilty person avoid being punished by repenting and turning to Christ?

if an innocent person is punished, the damage is done.

if a guilty person gets off on a technicality, they are freed to rape/pillage/kill again.

which of the two evils is lesser? i'd take the 2nd. there is always the chance the guilty person will slip up an dget caught.

innocent being punished?...mmm...interesting...i work on the theory that no-one over the age of 2 is innocent...because everyone is guilty of doing something wrong however small...thus people might be getting punishment for something they didn't do...but they did do something worthy of punishment at some point in their lives....so only the level of punishment is debatable

so a guilty person getting away with something is more annoying...especially if they did something to me

the first paragraph of your post is the biggest load of crap i have ever read.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
the first paragraph of your post is the biggest load of crap i have ever read.

everything you write registers on my shitometer...what's your point?

Originally posted by jaden101
everything you write registers on my shitometer...what's your point?
does this mean you are cancelling our date for saturday night?

seriously though, lets say a guy is a career criminal. one day, lets say in his 40's, he has a revelation about his life. he realizes what he has done, atones for it, and straightens out. he marries, has kids, becomes a productive member of society. one day, he is falsely accused of a crime and sentenced to a prison term. is this right? is this karma?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
does this mean you are cancelling our date for saturday night?



of course not...i take it whenever i can get it



it sure is karma

my point is that punishment is really the only subjective thing in terms of severity...in the UK you get what seems like a couple of years in jail for murdering someone...in the US you may get 40+ years...life...even stuck on death row and then killed by lethal injection...in some countries you get bruatally tortured and strung up by the gonads for far lesser crimes than murder....

hence its the punishment that changes rather than the crime

i still stand by the comment that no-one is innocent throughout their lives...

good then, pick you up at 7. dress to kill!!!!

there are far too many if's and's but's and maybe's here for me. i am bowing out.

Neither "anger" me, but the second option is my choice.

-AC

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
good then, pick you up at 7. dress to kill!!!!

there are far too many if's and's but's and maybe's here for me. i am bowing out.

i'll wear my dress...to kill...even

just be sure to shave your legs and pits, *****.

Originally posted by Grimm22
The guilty will meet justice when they die.


How so?

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
just be sure to shave your legs and pits, *****.

and here was me thinking you liked a bit of rough...

Originally posted by jaden101
and here was me thinking you liked a bit of rough...

Originally posted by jaden101
of course not...i take it whenever i can get it



it sure is karma

my point is that punishment is really the only subjective thing in terms of severity...in the UK you get what seems like a couple of years in jail for murdering someone...in the US you may get 40+ years...life...even stuck on death row and then killed by lethal injection...in some countries you get bruatally tortured and strung up by the gonads for far lesser crimes than murder....

hence its the punishment that changes rather than the crime

i still stand by the comment that no-one is innocent throughout their lives...

Let's look at it realistically though. I wouldn't really mind if somebody was fined a low penalty for something they didn't do if they can afford it. At the same point I wouldn't really care if they got away with it either.

Now let's talk about murder, do you think somebody that has never killed anybody in his entire life, didn't even help or whatever should get the death penalty before you let a murderer loose in the streets again?

I just find it amazing that we ALL AGREE on something.....has this EVER happened on KMC before ?




Every Christian, Atheist, Buddhist, Straight, Gay, Bi, Conservative, Liberal, etc. person on this thread has given the same stance.....that's remarkable.

This reminds me of counter-colonial Criminology...

But yeah, innocent being punished is a geater injustice.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
This reminds me of counter-colonial Criminology...

But yeah, innocent being punished is a geater injustice.



I was honestly expecting people to disagree with me, especially on the Conservative end, but it seems I was wrong. Everyone agrees so far.....

Maybe I should make a poll lol

I was also expecting more '' the bastard got away is vey very bad'' messages...ah well.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I was also expecting more '' the bastard got away is vey very bad'' messages...ah well.



Exactly ....I was SO READY to counter those kind of arguments. I haven't had the oppurtunity yet.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Exactly ....I was SO READY to counter those kind of arguments. I haven't had the oppurtunity yet.

Okay fine... I'll play along.

Guilty person going free is worse! "We" need to get and punish them before God does! An innocent person being punished is acceptable as they have probably done at least one thing wrong in their life! Rabble, rabble, rabble!

Originally posted by Fishy
Let's look at it realistically though. I wouldn't really mind if somebody was fined a low penalty for something they didn't do if they can afford it. At the same point I wouldn't really care if they got away with it either.

Now let's talk about murder, do you think somebody that has never killed anybody in his entire life, didn't even help or whatever should get the death penalty before you let a murderer loose in the streets again?

thats my point isn't it...its only the punishments that are open to question....given that everyone is guilty of something then its irrelevant to say that an innocent person being punished is worse than a guilty person getting away with it...because there are no innocent people...everyone is guilty of something

but no i wouldn't like to see someone get overly punished for anything...but then thats entirely subjective as well...

some people think rapists should go to jail...others think they should have their balls cut off and fed to dogs...and both of those things are punishments for that crime and who gets what solely depends on where you are...

Originally posted by jaden101
thats my point isn't it...its only the punishments that are open to question....given that everyone is guilty of something then its irrelevant to say that an innocent person being punished is worse than a guilty person getting away with it...because there are no innocent people...everyone is guilty of something



I can just as easily argue that there are NO GUILTY people. I can easily argue that people who do wrong are simply misguided and not deserving of punishment.

You're argument that no one is Innocent is NOT factual, it is simply your projection on human nature. It's also a huge generalization.



Originally posted by jaden101
but no i wouldn't like to see someone get overly punished for anything...but then thats entirely subjective as well...


Well, atleast we agree somewhere.....




Originally posted by jaden101
some people think rapists should go to jail...others think they should have their balls cut off and fed to dogs...and both of those things are punishments for that crime and who gets what solely depends on where you are...




If there is going to BE any punishment, then the punishment should fit the crime. Cutting off a man's genetalia because he raped someone is not justifiable because it does not equal the crime.


That's like cutting off a person's hands because they stole a loaf of bread.

no...admit it...you really cant



it also happens to be correct



well that just made my day...honest



but then thats cultural conditioning which determines what you think is and isn't a fitting punishment...you cant simply label an entire country as wrong because they feel a certain punishment is fitting while you think it's severe...

Originally posted by jaden101
no...admit it...you really cant


When speaking about the law there are many innocent people out there, and those that are not have generally been punished for it. Of course there are plenty of exceptions to think off but I still wouldn't call that a reason to just arrest somebody and hope he or she did it.

If you are saying the broke something like one of the ten commandments or whatever then that's really nice and all. But that would be up to God to judge, and not up to civilization, so yes it is indeed very easy to say that according the law somebody can be completely innocent.



Right, but that doesn't really matter to the question. If the punishment is a year in jail or fifty or his hands or balls cut off doesn't make a difference the question remains the same.

Do you think it's worse for an innocent person to be in jail for a year then a guilty person being free? Then replace a year with whatever other punishment you can think off, the answer should always be the same.

Originally posted by debbiejo
I think they're both the same to me.
That's because you're a fool.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
If an innocent person is being punished, then by extension, a guilty person is not being punished.
We're talking hypothetically.


I'll echo the words of everyone else. Innocent being punished.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen

If there is going to BE any punishment, then the punishment should fit the crime.

Urizen: KMC's Mikado

Why would you say this? The anger of people would be that any injustice is not OK. A person that is innocent and being convicted is not OK....the Person living a lush or even a life when they are guilty is NOT OK....

This is quite a stupid thread, because both of these things are an injustice..

Quit trolling here.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Why would you say this? The anger of people would be that any injustice is not OK. A person that is innocent and being convicted is not OK....the Person living a lush or even a life when they are guilty is NOT OK....

This is quite a stupid thread, because both of these things are an injustice..

Quit trolling here.

They're both injustices? Really? Shit!! Really? The word greater means something you know?

And your whole 1st paragraph made no sense. Try structuring a sentence in your mind before you write and publish it.

My first sentence of what? That they are both the same to me? Well they are....they are both an injustice, sorry if a person thinks that one is above the other.....Injustice is just that, an injustice for any and I say any individual or one involved...........yes it is.

An innocent person is would suffer, yet the bigger picture too is that a guilty person that got away with it can still go on doing it many times again and has no repercussions.......

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Think about the person you're talking to. Coherence is not what Debb strives for.
I know... But I'll be damned if I'm giving up that quickly.

I really just hope she has a valid excuse... Like English not being her 1st language. If it is though, may God have mercy on us all.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Get a life!! I'm not here to debate you on what I feel is less injustice...I only gave my opinion. If YOU don't like it, then that is YOUR opinion.....Oh, and I have found that a person that has nothing to add will resort to finding faults in grammar, spelling, jabs etc..This is a mind of an immature individual.........When my point was made already....

It's called insecurity in ones self and projected onto others to make one seem tall.............simple. I did have something to say on the topic.. I put my opinion on which I felt was the greater injustice. I didn't feel the need to back up my opinion with anything because the question to me is very simple.

The only reason I get on your arse about your grammatical, spelling an general structural mistakes is because you always post in such a pretentious manner, you post as if your opinion is somehow on a level that most will not understand. When actually the only reason people can't understand is because they can't read your posts because they'd have to piece it all together from bits scattered all over the place and it's simply not worth their time.

I simply can't understand why someone doesn't even read through their own post to check if it makes sense. If you believe that this stems from personal problems of mine then you're completely within your bounds but I'm really quite content with my life.

Originally posted by debbiejo
There is an Option thing here...... just you use it then.

Oh and yes ...the question was very simple too me also and I answered it in that manner........

If another member cannot except my answer in a civil way, then there must be something going on underneath..........Either a person is threatened by others (insecurity), or the person has a problem reality(different opinions), and in the latter case this would mean either paranoia, passive aggressive meaning that one has to take their own thoughts out on a forum, or someone is very immature minded.........

My opinion was already made on this subject...Thank you.

Well, I guess ignorance will continue to be bliss in your world then.

Ignorance of what per say?

Originally posted by jaden101
no...admit it...you really cant



Yes, I can easily argue that all people are simply misguided and not deserving of punishment, and THAT argument would be just as valid as you arguing that no one is innocent and that every deserves some kind of punishment simply because....


The reason they are both equally valid, is because niether of those arguments have any factual basis to back them up. They are both bullshit.....



Originally posted by jaden101
it also happens to be correct



Prove It.....


And when I say prove it, i mean REALLY prove it, since you claim it's fact. Prove to me that ALL PEOPLE are guilty, that all people deserve punishment, and that this is not simply your opinion.






Originally posted by jaden101
well that just made my day...honest







Originally posted by jaden101
but then thats cultural conditioning which determines what you think is and isn't a fitting punishment...you cant simply label an entire country as wrong because they feel a certain punishment is fitting while you think it's severe...



When did I say that ?


All I said was that punishment should equal the crime. Cutting off a man's testicles because he raped a woman is CLEARLY unequal.


A woman will still have her vagina....she will still be able to use it. She will still be able to take a piss, have sex, etc.


Cut off the man's testicles, and he won't be able to use them. HE won't have any children, he won't produce any sperm, his testosterone levels will drop, and the effects on his physical and mental being will be permanent.



Many women have gotten over thier nightmare of being raped. Rape is not a permanent tragedy, like murder. So to put a permanent punishment on a man who committed a temporary offense on a woman, is skewed.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Ignorance of what per say?
Originally posted by debbiejo
My opinion was already made on this subject...Thank you.

This is all you have?? To quote me here... and then use it against me......This a thinking of a reserved person who's only outlet may be this forum.....and if not, then this is quite an aggressive person doing a passive thing in their real life meaning....that they can not and don't feel that they can be heard by other means.......And in becoming on a forum that would be more aggressive because it would be sooooo much easier to then a face to face........

Teens are more likely to experience these symptoms.......I never did look in your profile..........cause I take people of all ages as the same, but alas.....I have forgotten the minds of many........Sorry, get on with your life there bud..........

I do believe you're the only one blowing this way out of proportion. I simply commented on the fact that your post actually had no content, it was a pointless, frivolous post. It didn't answer the threads question, it actually wasn't "General Discussion" at all. You're the one who made an escapade out of it and yet you're the one suggesting I have the serious insecurities. I enjoy my life, I haven't really any substantial negative things to say about it. Please stop replying now, my IQ steadily goes down with every sentence you write.

Thank you, good night.

Originally posted by debbiejo
.....I have forgotten the minds of many........



I think this may say something about you Debb

Originally posted by §P0oONY
I do believe you're the only one blowing this way out of proportion. I simply commented on the fact that your post actually had no content, it was a pointless, frivolous post. It didn't answer the threads question, it actually wasn't "General Discussion" at all. You're the one who made an escapade out of it and yet you're the one suggesting I have the serious insecurities. I enjoy my life, I haven't really any substantial negative things to say about it. Please stop replying now, my IQ steadily goes down with every sentence you write.

shut up and get a life dude

Originally posted by Robtard
Okay fine... I'll play along.

Guilty person going free is worse! "We" need to get and punish them before God does! An innocent person being punished is acceptable as they have probably done at least one thing wrong in their life! Rabble, rabble, rabble!
we need boondock saints.

Originally posted by debbiejo
BTW, flaunting ones IQ, is one that needs to prove something and again this is an insecurity......I don't flaunt mind ..nor does anyone else here.


I flaunt naked pics on myspace

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I flaunt naked pics on myspace
add me as your friend!!!

Originally posted by debbiejo
Escapade?..........Nah, I didn't do this.......This is the thinking of someone delusional.


In evaluating your self in this way........."I have NO securities, I enjoy my life" IS an act of a possible denial of thinking. I only say this because anyone and everyone would accept that there are limitations to ones thoughts and how it would effect others......... As far as my original post goes.....All I said was something like this...." I find them both the same, I find them, in other words quite offensive".......YOU HAVE A PROBLEM with that?

BTW, flaunting ones IQ, is one that needs to prove something and again this is an insecurity......I don't flaunt mine ..nor does anyone else here.
1. You don't know me, you don't know my life.
2. If I am in denial and I'm not aware that I'm in denial is there really a problem? As the only person the denial effects is myself and I'm not aware of it anyway so what's the big ****in' deal?
3. Of course there are limitations to a person's thought capacity. That was never in question.
4. I wasn't flaunting my IQ... Any positive integer has something smaller than it.Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
shut up and get a life dude
Better arguing over nothing than doing revision for a Maths exam.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
add me as your friend!!!



okay....

Rogue, I freind requested you...my username will say "Alancito"

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Rogue, I freind requested you...my username will say "Alancito"

Also, KMC happens to have a PM function.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Also, KMC happens to have a PM function.


I'm aware, but it was taking too long to load

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Denial can effect those around you but for the most part I think youre right
I'm very sceptical when it comes to all that psychology stuff. I like to believe that I have full conscious control over everything..........



















Now that's denial...

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Rogue, I freind requested you...my username will say "Alancito"
you sexy *****.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
you sexy *****.

Originally posted by debbiejo
No I dont, but can procieve it though your posts of attack
Procieve? Perceive? From my posts? You're joking right?

I believe I said that in the post you just quoted.
Okay...
Okay

Originally posted by debbiejo
This is all you have?? To quote me here... and then use it against me......This a thinking of a reserved person who's only outlet may be this forum.....and if not, then this is quite an aggressive person doing a passive thing in their real life meaning....that they can not and don't feel that they can be heard by other means.......And in becoming on a forum that would be more aggressive because it would be sooooo much easier to then a face to face........

Teens are more likely to experience these symptoms.......I never did look in your profile..........cause I take people of all ages as the same, but alas.....I have forgotten the minds of many........Sorry, get on with your life there bud.......... ...Can we get beyond this now Mr.?

I am done with this thread, only because I have stated my opinion.....not to debate a child like behavior of someone else here.........so immuture and sooooooooo..........Take your over evaluated ego on knowing what is the right response and what is not. Oh, and make it a bed partner, cause that is all you have....Learn something here Mr....Views are just that, they are only views, and If you want to make it your LOVER, then YOU got a problem.

You really are unbelievable...

Of course........I always am...........

I am already gone...
...
And I'm already gone
And I'm feelin' strong
I will sing this vict'ry song, woo, hoo,hoo,woo, hoo,hoo Eagles.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
then act 17

and debb you're older than he is let it go Are you my mother?

Yet I did and have been............Teens.........pfft.

OTAY.............. Truce??

Originally posted by debbiejo
Are you my mother?

Possibly

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
been there done that.
And I've got this fantastic T-Shirt depicting the birth of Jesus Christ...

i have one with gravy stains that resemble fidel castro.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
i have one with gravy stains that resemble fidel castro. They told me that one was out of print. weep

it was, i made it myself one day at IHOP.