Why didn't Ben recognize threepio?

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steverules
If Ben knew him in ep 2 then shouldn't he have noticed it was him when he see's him in ep 4?? or was this totally forgotten and they decided to have him working on the same farm with Owen for God know's how long in ep 2?

I'm just confused by it

PVS
as seen in ep1, artoo's intro: there are many droids that look just like r2.

smoker4
Also he didnt have sex with him

Rampant ox
Well that explains everything.

steverules
They didn't have sex...Hmmm there was me thinking that they had and it was just a deleted scene waiting to be added onto the extra's for the rerelease of the dvd

Blue_Hefner
Obi Wan probably didn't meet 3P0 until ROTS, and he didn't own 3P0 as Obi said.

Tangible God
Technically, he didn't lie or anything.

Alliance
Kenobi hated droids. And spent very little time with 3PO.

PVS
could also be that he didnt want to jog 3p0's memory having gone through the trouble of erasing it

AstroFan
Maybe he just repressed the memory of 3P0, I know I sure as hell would want to. stick out tongue

queeq
Then again, OB1 knew the droids fairly well. 3PO belonged to Padme and he had dealings with her, and R2 was Anakin's personal astrodroid... And he spent twenty years in the desert, how many droids would he have seen in the meantime?

Then again, he didn't have sex with them.

steverules
Owen didn't seem to remember 3PO either, and they worked on the same farm for...I dunno a few years maybe.

PVS
Originally posted by queeq
Then again, he didn't have sex with them.

are you sure of that?

vintageSW77
Even Vader didnt recognize him
either there must be loads of camp protocol droids in the SW universe or 3po is one of those people you know but would rather cross busy traffic than talk to

Alliance
Originally posted by queeq
Then again, OB1 knew the droids fairly well. 3PO belonged to Padme and he had dealings with her, and R2 was Anakin's personal astrodroid... And he spent twenty years in the desert, how many droids would he have seen in the meantime?

Then again, he didn't have sex with them.

Not really. From what we see. Kenobi and 3P0 rarely interact in the films. The only extended time I remeber them being together is on Polis Massa and on the Millenium Falcon. Given how much Kenobi hates droids, I'd imagine that he was more concerned about Padme at the time than 3PO.

There were other protocol droids in the Jawa's van, and in Jabbas' Palace. Seeing as local farmers wanted one, I'd assume that protocol dorids were fairly common in Mos Eisley, on Tatooine, and on most planets in general, especially Outer Rim worlds.

3P0's legplate changed, but it really didn't matter if he regonized him or not. If he mentioned something, he's probly confuse 3P0, who would ask R2, and then 3P0 would rediscover his past. It didn't warrant discussion. He probly just thought "will of the force" to himself and left it.

Then again, Lucas probably hadn't decided at the time to have 3P0 be constructed by Anakin.

vintageSW77
if he hates droids why does he give goldenrod an affectionate hand on the shoulder prior to leaving Mustafar....hmm

maybe Owen recognized 3p0 late in the day
maybe not

as stated years back Lucas needed someone to have a word with him whilst writing the PT script
but seeing as Lucas answers to nobody we get flaws like this

General G
Originally posted by vintageSW77
if he hates droids why does he give goldenrod an affectionate hand on the shoulder prior to leaving Mustafar....hmm

maybe Owen recognized 3p0 late in the day
maybe not

as stated years back Lucas needed someone to have a word with him whilst writing the PT script
but seeing as Lucas answers to nobody we get flaws like this

Perhaps he did that because he was tired and couldn't get up the ramp because he was an old man and just ahd a huge duel with Vader/Anakin stick out tongue

queeq
3PO and R2 should never have been in the PT, if you ask me.

PVS
i think they should have been, however the idea of anakin building 3p0 was just...bad...really bad and stupid

Alliance
Originally posted by queeq
3PO and R2 should never have been in the PT, if you ask me.

I think they should. Lucas based their characters on a film dealing with the rise of the Japanese Empire. They were two peasants caught up in the mass political trauma of the time and the movie documented their roles in a saga much greater than themselves.

In this context, it makes perfect sense that R2 and 3PO are the only characters that really are present throughout the saga.

queeq
Well yes and no... R2 and 3PO serve the same purpose as the two peasants from Hidden Fortress, but tehy only do that in the OT. In the PT that role is completely gone. The story is NO WAY told from the perspective of the two droids, as the OT clearly was. 3PO getting built by Anakin sucks big balls, and R2 has no vital role either. In the OT he saves the day quite a few times, in the PT he kinda hangs around and tries to do funny stuff...
If George couldn't come up with a decent role for these droids, I'd say: lose them!

vintageSW77
i thought R2 saved the day after escaping Naboo??
although having Anakin build C3PO and have R2 as his personal droid is stretching it

the SW movies are all about R2 incidently
if he hadnt have saved the day in the PT there would be no OT
if he hadnt took the escape pod they wouldnt have met Luke or Ben
if he hadnt fixed the hyperdrive after leaving Bespin Luke would have been in the hands of Vader
similarly if R2 hadnt stashed Lukes lightsabre the Emperor and Vader would have won as Luke would have been killed by Jabbas guards most likely therefore leaving Yoda and Ben up slack alley

its not about Anakin its the story of R2D2!!!!!
does he whine or screw up??
no
hes just R2
the true hero of the SW saga

R2D2 i salute you!

steverules
I don't think luke would have been killed by guard, he could've taken his lightsabre into Jabba's palace but didn't cause it was stashed in Artoo, and if Artoo hadn't stashed Lukes lightsabre I'm Luke could've used the force to grab a gun or something like he had originally done in Jabba's Palace.

vintageSW77
i dont know why he didnt just keep his lightsabre when he went to Jabbas palace
its a bit dumb
he wasnt searched as the Gammoreans were force choked
if he thought he may be captured why take the chance stashing it with R2??
and when trouble started first thing he did was reach for a blaster so it makes stashing his weapon pointless

it also would have saved a trip to the Sarlaac where he was vastly outnumbered by Jabbas guards whom whilst mostly incompetent did get one shot at his hand and therefore would probably have taken Luke out even if he was armed with a blaster.
as much as i love ROTJ the rescue of Han whilst VERY enjoyable is a bit silly
they should have just sent in a bunch of covert Rebels to rescue General Solo or whatever rank he had

queeq
Originally posted by vintageSW77
i thought R2 saved the day after escaping Naboo??


Oh yeah, he was lucky not to be shot to bits like the other droids. If he'd taken another position he'd be blasted to smithereens. Tehre's no particular R2 effort there. And that is just about the only one in three movies.
As you make clear from your list: those are all OT examples, where her serves his part excellentle.
I love R2 but he didn't deserve the obsolete role he got in the PT.

Jack Daniels
theres an easy explanation....ben got old timers diseasewheelchair from drinkin to much in the desert...beer drunk

vintageSW77
Originally posted by queeq
Oh yeah, he was lucky not to be shot to bits like the other droids. If he'd taken another position he'd be blasted to smithereens. Tehre's no particular R2 effort there. And that is just about the only one in three movies.


long time since i watched so my memories are vague of how it played out
my mistake

but as i think Ben Kenobi put it
"in my experiance theres no such thing as luck"

queeq
R2 is not a force user. Point is: it was in no way an R2 effort. He was just doing his job like the others less fortunate.

PVS
Originally posted by queeq
R2 is not a force user

what a profound revelation...can i profile this quote?

queeq
PLease do. It's the height of wisom most people can endure. so use it wisely.

PVS
you are correct...in fact many might not be able to handle the truth...it might be dangerous to profile that quote...in fact i suggest you edit out the original statement or else mass chaos might ensue

queeq
No, I don't think that is necessary. It is right ON the edge, dangerously balancing, but stable. And you know me, I live on the edge.

vintageSW77
well i think he saved the day!!

plus he was the straight man to 3pos lame comedy exploits on Geonosis
actually come to think of it R2 did as much in the PT than he prob did in any of the OT flicks
not in the way i would have liked but he did quite a bit

queeq
Not in the same way. Apart from the fairly accidental saving of the ship leaving Naboo, all he did was save 3PO here and there. And himself. But he wasn never vital to the exploits of our heroes. He was in the OT.

I don't know if you've ever seen Hidden Fortress. It's very clear where Lucas got his idea from, to peasants (low class folk) allow us to enter the world of high class samurai, princesses and kings. R2 and 3PO served the same purpose in the OT. In all fairness, they did NOT have that role in the PT. So why are they there other than brand awareness? They are only there to say to us: see, it is SW!

vintageSW77
agreed

i havent seen Hidden Fortress but i am aware of its influence on SW and the two low class characters
ill check it out sooner or later

queeq
It's B&W and Japanese, that may put some people off, but it's well worth watching.

Sesse
The galaxy keeps getting smaller and smaller.


Everybody there seem to know each other and share some history.

queeq
I don't know anyone.

chinabing
Oh please, the droids don't save anybody in the PT? C'mon, R2 saves the day in the PT how:

- Fixes the queen's starship shields
- Keeps Anakin alive and helps destroy the Tray-Fed ship
- (subtract one save by not spotting the wormie things on Padme's bed)
- Saves Padme from being boiled in lead
- Saves Threepio in the arena
- Best Droid at the wedding
- Saves Anakin by blasting the buzzdroids
- Helps rescue Obi-Wan & Anakin w/ the elevator, (I don't get the loose wire joke)
- Rescues Padme & unborn twins from falling lava at Mustafar with Threepio, (off screen)

queeq
Originally posted by chinabing
Oh please, the droids don't save anybody in the PT? C'mon, R2 saves the day in the PT how:

- Fixes the queen's starship shields
- Keeps Anakin alive and helps destroy the Tray-Fed ship
- (subtract one save by not spotting the wormie things on Padme's bed)
- Saves Padme from being boiled in lead
- Saves Threepio in the arena
- Best Droid at the wedding
- Saves Anakin by blasting the buzzdroids
- Helps rescue Obi-Wan & Anakin w/ the elevator, (I don't get the loose wire joke)
- Rescues Padme & unborn twins from falling lava at Mustafar with Threepio, (off screen)

1. No particular effort, he was just the one left. Any R2 unit could have done that.
2. Well, he takes out the automatic pilot, some effort. The point was to show Anakin's excellence as a pilot (and ignore the oopses)
3. Okay, that's one... a bloody repetition of several OT saves, but I'll give ya that.
4. He alwasy saves 3PO, hardly vital to anything
5. Errr... yep
6. helps yes.... helps... a bit
7. Some pulling... ah well... not a great save

Your list kinda confirms my point: R2's PT actions are too lame for such a great droid.

Jack Daniels
r2 was so great cause of anakins modifications .....he was normal droid till anakin got ahold of him....IMO...r2's role in PT was needed to explain why he was cool and unique..IMO which doesnt always pan out...lol

queeq
But R2 is only unique in the OT... so even there the PT fails.

chinabing
1. If any particular droid could have done it, why was the pilot so shocked, i.e. "That little droid did it!"
2. Not just the auto-pilot, c'mon. Perhaps he cools down the overheated ship so that the shields come up so that the droids don't capture Anakin so thate he can blast the reactor, shutting down the droids and saving the Gungans. So Artoo helps save an entire species! What more could you want?
3. Repitition or not, a save is a save.
4. 3PO is vital to the story, it's told through the droid's eyes. Since we're watching the story, 3PO is as vital as any other main character.
6. Well, his little rockets destroyed the super battle droids. And any destroyed battle droid is a good battle droid.
7. What more do you want. The pull was the save! Gee, save Padme & the unborn kids from falling lava. He failed to lower taxes and stop global warming! What a do-nothing droid. Sheesh.

But what about in the OT when he failed to "save" luke after being fried in the Death Star trench? He also failed to save Luke from the Wampa, Han from Boba Fett, Luke from losing his hand, Leia from breaking a nail, etc.

Jack Daniels
leia broke a nail?

queeq
Originally posted by chinabing
1. If any particular droid could have done it, why was the pilot so shocked, i.e. "That little droid did it!"
2. Not just the auto-pilot, c'mon. Perhaps he cools down the overheated ship so that the shields come up so that the droids don't capture Anakin so thate he can blast the reactor, shutting down the droids and saving the Gungans. So Artoo helps save an entire species! What more could you want?
3. Repitition or not, a save is a save.
4. 3PO is vital to the story, it's told through the droid's eyes. Since we're watching the story, 3PO is as vital as any other main character.
6. Well, his little rockets destroyed the super battle droids. And any destroyed battle droid is a good battle droid.
7. What more do you want. The pull was the save! Gee, save Padme & the unborn kids from falling lava. He failed to lower taxes and stop global warming! What a do-nothing droid. Sheesh.

But what about in the OT when he failed to "save" luke after being fried in the Death Star trench? He also failed to save Luke from the Wampa, Han from Boba Fett, Luke from losing his hand, Leia from breaking a nail, etc.

1. Still that was luck. There was no effort apart from not getting shot.
2. Perhaps, perhaps... That won't do.
3. True... we'll count that as one.
4. 3PO vital to the PT???? No way, he's not even there half of the time.
6. He saved only himself
7. Okay, a save. So that makes two in three movies.

OT performance list:
1. Making sure the death star plans get to Ob1 (chosing his own path across the desert, escaping Luke)
2. Finding the Princess (by his own initiative, no one asked him)
3. Saving the guys from the trash compactor
4. Delivering the Death Star plans intact
5. Helping Luke en even getting shot
6. Unselfishly scanning for Luke in the snow
7. Heating the Princess's chamber (not smart but shows initiative)
8. Maintenance to the X-Wing in the swamp
9. Overriding security systems on Cloud City
10. Fixing the unreparable hyperdrive
11. Helping Luke rescue Han (various actions)
12. Electrocuting an Ewok (makes him the people's hero)
13. Almost opening te bunker before getting shot on behalf of the Rebellion


Well, I'm sure I missed a few, but R2's a real hero in the OT. In the PT he is mere decoration.

chinabing
Originally posted by queeq
In the PT he is mere decoration.
Uh-uh. In Star Wars, there's no such thing as luck. R2 get's credit for saving the lives of everyone on that starship! The queen, the pilots, the jedi, the concubines, jar jar, everyone.

How many people does R2 have to save to satisfy you? He did just fine in the prequels.

queeq
How many??? I'm not talking quantity, I'm talking quality. R2 is not doing anything any of the other astromechs would be doing there if he wasn't shot. There is no R2 effort involved, he just does his job.

chinabing
Originally posted by queeq
How many??? I'm not talking quantity, I'm talking quality. R2 is not doing anything any of the other astromechs would be doing there if he wasn't shot. There is no R2 effort involved, he just does his job. Well that's great, we WERE just talking quantity! That's why we both made up lists!

Saving the queen's starship could be seen as The Force, luck, chance, 'just doin' my job," R2 effort, and a combination of all. Why wasn't R2 blasted to piece at Geonosis by a random blaster bolt? Why wasn't R2 blasted apart by stormtroopers on the Death Star, at Bespin, the blockade runner, at the Theed Palace, etc.

R2 was most assuredly NOT doing regular droid effort when he saved the queen's starship. That he was not blasted apart when others were is kinda a moot point, and relegates his great effort into nothing special. The queen practically gave the droid a medal! The fact is the droid has the special ability of seemingly being able to avoid laserblasts!

He also saved Padme from the boiling lead, and w/Threepio saved Padme and her unborn children from the falling lava. So at least once in each prequel, he does a pre-save on Luke & Leia and pre-saves the galaxy too. Those actions *are* something special.

queeq
So what did R2 do on the queen's starship that teh otheres weren't doing? Answer: not getting shot.

chinabing
Originally posted by queeq
So what did R2 do on the queen's starship that teh otheres weren't doing? Answer: not getting shot. You asked what he *did*: he fixed the shields. Not getting shot was out of his control. R2 saves the galaxy again!

queeq
Only because he wasn't hit!!! That is very important, because any of teh droids could probably have fixed the shield if they weren't shot. So... R2 rescue is no R2 effort (which was always my point!)

Jack Daniels
the force directed r2 to his place of work so he wouldnt get shot....r2 was destined to be in all 6 movies damn it...lol

queeq
The force???? He's no Jedi, he's a droid, not even a living thing.

I think that rescue is nothing more than the inciting incident that caused R2 to be in the picture. After all, they ran out of astromechs after that, so R2 had to be everywhere. Only THEN did he get noticed, but for what I have no idea. His true heroism is in the OT.

Kraken
He was old. old people don't remember that much.

queeq
He was a Jedi.

chinabing
Originally posted by queeq
Only because he wasn't hit!!! That is very important, because any of teh droids could probably have fixed the shield if they weren't shot. We don't know that! We don't know if any of the other could have fixed the shields. But R2 bypassed the hydrospanner to get to the luvial dampers and viola! fixed shields.

It WAS an effort! The pilot said "That lil droid did it!" The queen said "It is to be commended," and practically gave him a medal. That shows us this little droid went above and beyond the call of duty. I can't help you anymore.

queeq
You trust that fat pilot? It doesn't mean a thing, just because he's surprised doesn't mean a thing. We SAW what happened.
And because we don't know if any of the droid could have done it, we don't know if they couldn't. There's no reason to believe why ONLY R2 can make basic repairs to a ship... why the heck does everyone fly with astromechs then if they're no good.

Alliance
Decoration 31

queeq
That would be the only answer if chinabing is right.

grim92
Originally posted by steverules
If Ben knew him in ep 2 then shouldn't he have noticed it was him when he see's him in ep 4?? or was this totally forgotten and they decided to have him working on the same farm with Owen for God know's how long in ep 2?

I'm just confused by it

there is many versions of threepio. thats why.

queeq
He knew Goldenrod...

Tangible God
Originally posted by chinabing
We don't know that! We don't know if any of the other could have fixed the shields. But R2 bypassed the hydrospanner to get to the luvial dampers and viola! fixed shields.

It WAS an effort! The pilot said "That lil droid did it!" The queen said "It is to be commended," and practically gave him a medal. That shows us this little droid went above and beyond the call of duty. I can't help you anymore. Wait, why the Hell would the Queen's ship not have droids that can fix the shields?

queeq
Exactly my point.

chinabing
Originally posted by queeq
You trust that fat pilot? It doesn't mean a thing, just because he's surprised doesn't mean a thing. We SAW what happened.
And because we don't know if any of the droid could have done it, we don't know if they couldn't. There's no reason to believe why ONLY R2 can make basic repairs to a ship... why the heck does everyone fly with astromechs then if they're no good.
The pilot's comments, the queen's comments & commendation, etc, that prove to us that R2 went above & beyond. He's a mechanic, maybe they're only programmed to fix one thing, and R2 went beyond that do something special, as proven by the comments. That's the reason ONLY R2 fixed the shields. Maybe R2 disconnected one thing and attached it to another to fix them.

The pilot & the queen's comments prove that R2's actions were surprising.

We don't know that the other droids were no good. No one knows what they're doing up there. And how that the other 3 got blasted and the ship didn't is pretty good shootin by the Tray-fed guys.

queeq
Well, that commendation is just bullocks... I bet they were just bored and found a ceremonial thing to do. Fact is: it's NOTHING beyond his normal duty if we see what he does in the OT. THAT is beyond the normal duty.

Kazenji
Maybe the reason he did'nt recognize threepio was he was around Luke and if he recognized him i'm pretty sure luke would get a tad suspecious about it

queeq
A tad??? laughing out loud

Count Makashi
The real question here isent why Ben dosent remeber threepio, but why dosnt Owen Lars remember him, he lived with him for almost 10 years, when Shmi was bought by Creeg Lars and i doubt thera are many droids named threepio who are anoying and with gayish personality.

queeq
Owen doesn't want to remember anything.

And it's Cliegg...

chinabing
I don't think Shmi & Threepio were with lars for 10 years. Maybe a couple. Anyway, Owen only had one conversation with him. Maybe Threepio's voice pattern is sold to millions of droids in the galaxy, a "droid expansion pack" chip sold in 5 and Dime stores everywhere.

chinabing
Originally posted by queeq
Well, that commendation is just bullocks... I bet they were just bored and found a ceremonial thing to do. Fact is: it's NOTHING beyond his normal duty if we see what he does in the OT. THAT is beyond the normal duty.
Bored? After fighting off the trade fed battleship, losing hyperdive power, they decide to take time to commend a droid? In the middle of a crisis? Your only conclusion can be it was an outstanding act by R2. But saving the day is Business as Usual for R2.

Tangible God
Originally posted by chinabing
Bored? After fighting off the trade fed battleship, losing hyperdive power, they decide to take time to commend a droid? In the middle of a crisis? Your only conclusion can be it was an outstanding act by R2. But saving the day is Business as Usual for R2. R2 saves the day at LEAST once in every movie, not to mention the EU. It kinda suck how this was like his only reward. He's the true hero of the series.

overlord
It's because the PT was made before A New Hope.. I don't think Lucas had a secret explanation made up when he made it. Somewhere along the way he just decided to f*ck up SW by letting everyone return.

Count Makashi
Originally posted by queeq
Owen doesn't want to remember anything.

And it's Cliegg...

Why doesn't Owen want to remember anything, did C-3PO abuse him or something.

It was a cold night, Owen Lars was sleeping in his bed when suddenly he herd the door open and immediately his body was filed with fear. It was C-3PO who entered the room. Owen knew what was going to happened, the same thing that was going one for years, every night.
C-3PO set on the bed where Owen was sleeping and started rubbing Owens back. Owen was petrified, butt manage enough courage to say to
C-3PO to back of or he is going to tell hiss father. C-3PO just replied O i don't believe so master Owen, you wouldn't want your fighter know you were a bad boy. Owen said don't to this, but C-3PO replied It is only natural. C-3PO laid behind Owens back in the same position and started doing his thing. Tears began to come aut of Owens eyes and he only wished that it would and quickly. C-3PO carved another mark in his soul.

Years later Anakin was leaving to save his master on Geonosis. Owen was delighted that he would take C-3PO with him, no longer was he going to suffer, no longer will he be ashamed that he was doing something bad. When Amidalas ship began its launch Owen felt great joy that he will newer see C-3PO again, all he wanted to do was forget that C-3PO ever existed and in couple next days he completely suppressed any memory of C-3PO existence.

queeq
I see....

chinabing
It must be the lack of sex in Star Wars that makes some think writing perverted SW scenes is somehow funny or innovative.

queeq
Oh... it was meant to be funny???

darthmaul1
Originally posted by chinabing
The pilot's comments, the queen's comments & commendation, etc, that prove to us that R2 went above & beyond. He's a mechanic, maybe they're only programmed to fix one thing, and R2 went beyond that do something special, as proven by the comments. That's the reason ONLY R2 fixed the shields. Maybe R2 disconnected one thing and attached it to another to fix them.

The pilot & the queen's comments prove that R2's actions were surprising.

We don't know that the other droids were no good. No one knows what they're doing up there. And how that the other 3 got blasted and the ship didn't is pretty good shootin by the Tray-fed guys.

When the shield generator was hit the droids went up to fix it, thats it. 2 of the droids were blown away and the captain was surprised because R2 was the last one and he still managed to fix the shields. plain and simple

queeq
Amen.... no particular R2 effort.

Marxman
3PO didn't get his gold plating until sometime in the Clone Wars. When he was on Tatooine, he had the shitty iron plating that Shmi slapped on him. Then sometime during the Clone Wars he was upgraded (if you go by the Clone Wars cartoon Padame had him upgraded while Anakin was away at war).

So Owen would be seeing an entirely new droid.

Tangible God
It's called Alzheimers, Owen, Obi-Wan, and Vader all suffer from it.

queeq
laughing out loud

chinabing
Originally posted by darthmaul1
When the shield generator was hit the droids went up to fix it, thats it. 2 of the droids were blown away and the captain was surprised because R2 was the last one and he still managed to fix the shields. plain and simple

Ya, then the queen & captain practically held a parade for R2. Oh, ya, just business as usual for astrodroids.

Jack Daniels
guess I missed the parade..lol

queeq
THe whole commendation thing was stupid: what was the reason???? A droid doing his bloody work!!! Was that so unusual?

Tangible God
That Queeny, what a softy.

Marxman
He got cleaned for a reward. I wish I could get a scrub down from Natalie Portman if I did my job.

queeq
Hehehehe... fair enough.


But I bet the big black guy did that.

chinabing
Originally posted by queeq
THe whole commendation thing was stupid: what was the reason???? A droid doing his bloody work!!! Was that so unusual? Criminy. Ya think they give out commendations for "business as usual" behavior? You think they hire droids just to sit at a desk, pushing papers around?

Tangible God
Originally posted by chinabing
Criminy. Ya think they give out commendations for "business as usual" behavior? You think they hire droids just to sit at a desk, pushing papers around? What else are droids good for?

queeq
Exactly? And what did R2 do that was so special then? I didn't get taht from the movie at all. All I saw was a droid doing his normal duties. It is a very weird and forced scene, the commendation scene.

overlord
R2D2, an hero, savior of the galaxy for having superior programming.

queeq
In the OT, yes.

Tangible God
In the PT, he was just a suped up little pimp. Still cool though.

chinabing
Man you couldn't be more wrong.

You saw the commendation scene with your own eyes. Isn't that good enough for you to prove to you Artoo was smarter and more heroic than your average droid? What Artoo did was incredible. It was above and beyond. It shocked pilot Ric Olie. Lucas just proved to you in Artoo's opening scene what an great droid Artoo is, and you do nothing but mock it.

By simple logic it was presented to you that Artoo was an extraordinary droid. The other droids might have stuck to their original programming to fix the air conditioning or the gravimetric compensators. Not R2! He saved the ship by fixing the shields, something none of the passengers or crew expected!

For crying out loud, Artoo's a hero!

Tangible God
Originally posted by chinabing
Man you couldn't be more wrong.

You saw the commendation scene with your own eyes. Isn't that good enough for you to prove to you Artoo was smarter and more heroic than your average droid? What Artoo did was incredible. It was above and beyond. It shocked pilot Ric Olie. Lucas just proved to you in Artoo's opening scene what an great droid Artoo is, and you do nothing but mock it.

By simple logic it was presented to you that Artoo was an extraordinary droid. The other droids might have stuck to their original programming to fix the air conditioning or the gravimetric compensators. Not R2! He saved the ship by fixing the shields, something none of the passengers or crew expected!

For crying out loud, Artoo's a hero! Amazing that feat may be, but R2 remains only a droid, a droid who was at the time, doing was he was programmed and instructed to do: Maintain and repair that ship. It's a softy who gives awards to artificial intelligence for doing its job. R2 did nothing outside of what was expected of him.

queeq
Originally posted by chinabing
Man you couldn't be more wrong.

You saw the commendation scene with your own eyes. Isn't that good enough for you to prove to you Artoo was smarter and more heroic than your average droid? What Artoo did was incredible. It was above and beyond. It shocked pilot Ric Olie. Lucas just proved to you in Artoo's opening scene what an great droid Artoo is, and you do nothing but mock it.

By simple logic it was presented to you that Artoo was an extraordinary droid. The other droids might have stuck to their original programming to fix the air conditioning or the gravimetric compensators. Not R2! He saved the ship by fixing the shields, something none of the passengers or crew expected!

For crying out loud, Artoo's a hero!

Isn't that lame! We have to be TOLD that R2 is special. Lucas couldn't find a way to SHOW us!!!!

overlord
It shocked pilot Ric Olie. For crying out loud, Artoo's a hero!

Ric Oily: "OH GOOD GOD, THIS DROID IS... !!?? HE'S A GOD!!!"

queeq
Was taht one of the great deleted scenes I missedd?

chinabing
Originally posted by queeq
Isn't that lame! We have to be TOLD that R2 is special. Lucas couldn't find a way to SHOW us!!!!

Told? Like the medals at the end of Ep IV? Like the glowball awards ceremony at the end of Ep I? Lucas loves ceremonies, I suggest you get used to it!

Tangible God
Originally posted by chinabing
Told? Like the medals at the end of Ep IV? Like the glowball awards ceremony at the end of Ep I? Lucas loves ceremonies, I suggest you get used to it! I guess the Victorian Cross, Medal of Honour, Nobel Prize are all nothing then?

The point is, why the hell does a droid deserve a medal for doing what it's built for?

queeq
Originally posted by chinabing
Told? Like the medals at the end of Ep IV? Like the glowball awards ceremony at the end of Ep I? Lucas loves ceremonies, I suggest you get used to it!

Yeah, well at last in ANH we SAW he deserved it. Here special efforts of R2 in ANH alone:

- convinces 3PO to come along in the escape pod
- chooses his own way on Tatooine
- bs's his was out of showing the hologram to Luke
- escapes to find OB1
- expands on his own initiative his computer search on the Death Star to find the Princess
- saves the day by shutting down the grabage compactors
- goes out in the battle of the Death Star and gets shot doing it

Now, THAT droid is to be commended. Not the one that just does his job as ordered.

chinabing
Tough bananas, R2 is a hero in Ep I. If you don't agree, screaming about it can't help you.

And 'jever think that maybe R2 grew into the hero role? He started out small, by saving the shields on the Queen's ship, then grows and grows as the series rolls on.

Perhaps fixing shields isn't a part of what a little astro droid is supposed to do. That's why Rik Olie was so shocked, and why the queen gave him a medal

I don't really know what specific duties droids can do on a ship except locking down stabilizers and turning off autopilots and firing up converters, which are all just cool-sounding technobabble to fill time when you think about it.

Tangible God
Originally posted by chinabing
Tough bananas, R2 is a hero in Ep I. If you don't agree, screaming about it can't help you. Heed your own advice. He is artificial intelligence designed with the intention of repairing and maintaining a ship. If he had not fixed the shields, but had not been destroyed, would you say he was afraid, or a jerk? Such are the signs of sentients. Sentients are the ones who deserve medals, living beings, capable of failing or succeeding spectacularly. Droids are told to do something and they do it, if they don't they're AWOL. Would you award a Wal-Mart employee for doing his job?

If it was Anakin, or Jar Jar, or Wicket who had fixed the shields, by all means, give the living beings a medal, but giving a computerized robot a reward for performing its designated functions is simply moronic.

queeq
Originally posted by chinabing
Tough bananas, R2 is a hero in Ep I. If you don't agree, screaming about it can't help you.

And 'jever think that maybe R2 grew into the hero role? He started out small, by saving the shields on the Queen's ship, then grows and grows as the series rolls on.

Perhaps fixing shields isn't a part of what a little astro droid is supposed to do. That's why Rik Olie was so shocked, and why the queen gave him a medal

I don't really know what specific duties droids can do on a ship except locking down stabilizers and turning off autopilots and firing up converters, which are all just cool-sounding technobabble to fill time when you think about it.

Of course fixing things is why you have astro droids on board. Did you think that lift to the roof was there by accident or may it have been installed there specifically for astromechs to do necessary repairs.

And if het GREW into the role of hero, why TF did they give him a medal: the most promising astrodroid in the future role of hero?

Point is, R2 is a hero to me. I just feel the PT does not do him credit. He seems to be tehre for decoration (and/or merchandising) purposes only. The whole first action in TPM stresses that!

chinabing
Originally posted by queeq
Of course fixing things is why you have astro droids on board. Did you think that lift to the roof was there by accident or may it have been installed there specifically for astromechs to do necessary repairs.

And if het GREW into the role of hero, why TF did they give him a medal: the most promising astrodroid in the future role of hero?

Point is, R2 is a hero to me. I just feel the PT does not do him credit. He seems to be tehre for decoration (and/or merchandising) purposes only. The whole first action in TPM stresses that!

Sure, fixing "things" is what astrodroids do. I said "fixing shields." Bit of a difference. For all we know droids can't fix shields, and in fact, the reaction of Olie, the queen, etc, makes one think that they don't fix 'em! It is only logical. R2 fixes 'em and ta-da! Commendation.

R2 is a hero, but where was he on Death Star II? How come he didn't zap the emperor? R2 was zapped by Vader in the trench, and didn't help Luke one bit after he was knocked unconscious? R2's a hero, but not as much as Luke & eventually Vader.

Tangible God
Originally posted by chinabing
Sure, fixing "things" is what astrodroids do. I said "fixing shields." Bit of a difference. For all we know droids can't fix shields, and in fact, the reaction of Olie, the queen, etc, makes one think that they don't fix 'em! It is only logical. R2 fixes 'em and ta-da! Commendation.

R2 is a hero, but where was he on Death Star II? How come he didn't zap the emperor? R2 was zapped by Vader in the trench, and didn't help Luke one bit after he was knocked unconscious? R2's a hero, but not as much as Luke & eventually Vader. What is this?

"For all we know droids can't fix shields." WTF?

So that turbolift was there for no reason? That control panel for the shields was there by coincidence? That camera just happened to be pointing right at said location?

Yeeeeeeeeeeeah.............. sure.

Hope you receive the Nobel Prize for Advancement in Humanity or w/e due to your continuing contributions for going to work everyday.

overlord
"Lucas loves ceremonies, I suggest you get used to it, and R2 is a hero no matter how much you scream about it!!"

Yeah, fellow SW fans, STOP SCRAEMING ABOUT R2 NOT BEING HERO, GET USED TO IT mad

eek!

chinabing
Originally posted by Tangible God
What is this?

"For all we know droids can't fix shields." WTF?

So that turbolift was there for no reason? That control panel for the shields was there by coincidence? That camera just happened to be pointing right at said location?

Yeeeeeeeeeeeah.............. sure.

Hope you receive the Nobel Prize for Advancement in Humanity or w/e due to your continuing contributions for going to work everyday.

All right, why not knock off the personal attacks and stick to the substance of the post.

That's right, we don't know if droids can fix shields. Ever seen it done, specifically, in the OT?

OK, say that droids CAN fix shields, I'm not saying it's out of the bounds of possibilities. Maybe it takes 3 or 4 droids to fix shields, all doing separate items on a checklist. Maybe R2 went up there and put the little wire in by cross-hatching and hot-wiring something, doing the work of 2 or 3 other droids.

I don't know, and neither do you.

But what we DO know is:

a. Ric Olie's shocked "That little droid did it!"
b. Panaka's "Without a doubt, it saved the ship."
c. The queen's "It is to be commended."

Just because you think it did nothing special doesn't make it true. The characters obviously thought R2 did, as written.

Of course the turbo lift was there for a reason. The control panel was there for a reason. And the camera was put there by Mr. Lucas, for crying out loud, so we could see what happened in his movie.

queeq
I'm not blaming R2. I'm blaming Lucas. And he also wrote those stupid lines about R2 fixing the ship as one would expect from an astromech. Lucas ruined R2.

Tangible God
Originally posted by chinabing
I don't know, and neither do you. So why do you presume if you say we shouldn't?



a. Ric Olie's shocked "That little droid did it!"
b. Panaka's "Without a doubt, it saved the ship."
c. The queen's "It is to be commended."a.) Have you ruled out simple glee at the fact he wasn't going to die?

b.) I'm promoting him to Colonel Obvious. Hell we should bow to his other insightful little piece: "We have no army." Reeeeallly?

c.) Isn't her little commendation scene what we're arguing? It was unnecessary and shows that she's either a simple creature herself (unlikely) or being paid by her producers to say those useless lines.

Just because you think it did nothing special doesn't make it true. The characters obviously thought R2 did, as written.Heed your own advice. And these characters, despite Amidala would be? And don't give me Olie's line again, I've already explained it.

Of course the turbo lift was there for a reason. The control panel was there for a reason. And the camera was put there by Mr. Lucas, for crying out loud, so we could see what happened in his movie.Which frankly explains why this entire argument is useless, it's a movie. WTF are we doing here on the internet talking about it then?

chinabing
Originally posted by queeq
I'm not blaming R2. I'm blaming Lucas. And he also wrote those stupid lines about R2 fixing the ship as one would expect from an astromech. Lucas ruined R2. 'Blaming Lucas' is the tired argument of a typical prequel-hater.

Again I ask, why were Olie, Panaka & the queen so shocked & amazed that lil' R2 fixed the shields and saved the ship?

Because droids don't do kinds of things like saving the ship!

That scene in TPM was the first instance of the heroic R2. Heck, we hardly knew he was there until he started saving things, he was just one of the "boyos" in the quiver.

chinabing
Originally posted by Tangible God
So why do you presume if you say we shouldn't? ]
I'm saying we don't know what droids can do. I've yet to see a laundry list of all the times in the OT where R2 fixed shields, I guess I'll wait a little longer.



Glee? No. Shock and a feeling of amazment, yes. Glee is almost insipid happiness, and Olie was shocked and amazed.



Ever heard about a little something called "establishing" dialogue? Happens in sequels all the time, so the viewer who didn't see episode A wouldn't feel completely lost watching episode B. Example: In ROTS, Anakin says "I'm tired of all this deception, I don't care if they know we're married." Now the non-viewers of AotC are up to speed on the whole relationship-thing.

Panaka's line is a pretty valid line.



No, the argument is if R2 is a hero in the PT, and some have argued he's not. I say in R2's first scene he saves the ship, what more do you want?

The whole commendation thing establishes the link between Padme & R2. The whole relationship had to start somewhere; saving the ship ain't too bad a way to do it. The actress of course is paid by the producers, I don't expect she works for free... but I don't know why you would bring that up because the actress and the character are different. (At least I'd hoped you'd know the difference!)



Fact is, I know and everyone else who saw TPM knows that R2 saved the ship. What he "just doin' his job?" Well, that's what they say to Firemen who run into burning buildings too. Can you be just doin' your job and be heroic? Yes, but R2 did something so shocking and amazing, the human characters were standing there like slack-jawed gawkers! Olie's line is just a part of the manifold confirmation that R2 acted heroicly.

I suggest you argue your points within the boundaries of the film we see, not what you want to see. Arguing that Lucas is "stoopid" and that his writing those lines "sux," well, fasten your seatbelts, I'll alert the media!

Tangible God
Originally posted by chinabing
I'm saying we don't know what droids can do. I've yet to see a laundry list of all the times in the OT where R2 fixed shields, I guess I'll wait a little longer.



Glee? No. Shock and a feeling of amazment, yes. Glee is almost insipid happiness, and Olie was shocked and amazed.



Ever heard about a little something called "establishing" dialogue? Happens in sequels all the time, so the viewer who didn't see episode A wouldn't feel completely lost watching episode B. Example: In ROTS, Anakin says "I'm tired of all this deception, I don't care if they know we're married." Now the non-viewers of AotC are up to speed on the whole relationship-thing.

Panaka's line is a pretty valid line.



No, the argument is if R2 is a hero in the PT, and some have argued he's not. I say in R2's first scene he saves the ship, what more do you want?

The whole commendation thing establishes the link between Padme & R2. The whole relationship had to start somewhere; saving the ship ain't too bad a way to do it. The actress of course is paid by the producers, I don't expect she works for free... but I don't know why you would bring that up because the actress and the character are different. (At least I'd hoped you'd know the difference!)



Fact is, I know and everyone else who saw TPM knows that R2 saved the ship. What he "just doin' his job?" Well, that's what they say to Firemen who run into burning buildings too. Can you be just doin' your job and be heroic? Yes, but R2 did something so shocking and amazing, the human characters were standing there like slack-jawed gawkers! Olie's line is just a part of the manifold confirmation that R2 acted heroicly.

I suggest you argue your points within the boundaries of the film we see, not what you want to see. Arguing that Lucas is "stoopid" and that his writing those lines "sux," well, fasten your seatbelts, I'll alert the media! Olie was happy they were alive, so excitement and surprise found its way into his tone. Would happen to anyone.

Panaka's line was valid, obvious and and irrelevant to this argument.

R2 is a hero in the OT and and in AOTC at least for the PT. He saved that ship and everyone on board, BUT, he did so since it was what he was programmed to do. And while that argument can be applied to soldiers on the front line, R2 was, is and always will be, artificial intelligence. Commending him for acts of bravery and innovation would be justified, as can be seen in the OT. But for doing his job and nothing more? No.

queeq
Why WERE they shocked and amazed? Good question, I can't understand WHY they said that. That is the whole poitn here: there is no reason for them to be so shocked. Please let us in on the secret, George, we as an audience want to participate in what's going on...

Establishing dialogue???? Is taht a neat word for easy writing??? When anyone would say without any emotion: I love you. Waht does that tell you? That this person ACTUALLY REALLY loves that person or that he's lying? You'd call that establishing dialogue (if he say he loves her, then he does) but if you don't really get it... it's worthless. Like the commendation scene with R2. It may have been great but why didn't we see its greatness???

overlord
So some sixteen year old retarded errr.. retired queen commends a droid for having the luck to survive in crossfire while doing his repair program. Big deal, every R2 unit can do the stuff asked of them as R2D2 was.
Give his programmer a medal or something.

But what were we talking about anyway?

queeq
Droids.

yungz22
man the creator didnt make anyone reconize him because it would confuse people. remember star wars 4,5,6 came outway before 1.2.3

queeq
So?

overlord
How should Lucas have known at the time he made the first movies that he'd go and make three R2D2 movies to prequel them? Obi Wan did not recognize droids because Lucas did not think about it.
Every reason made up to explain Obi Wan would therefore be non canon.

queeq
He should have thought of it when he made the PT though.

jollyjim311
Real issue: Why did Anakin kidnap Threepio in Episode II?

Tangible God
I've always thought that was odd.

queeq
It was more like.... stealing. He gave him to his mother, so Cliegg inherited him. I always knew there was something wrong with that kid.

LÉONpro2007
Ben probably didnt recognize or greet 3PO, bcuz 3PO obviously had his "mind wiped" clean of everything, of course.


There would of been no need to in that case.




.... yeah.

queeq
So Ben had his memory wiped as well?

chinabing
Originally posted by Tangible God
Panaka's line was valid, obvious and and irrelevant to this argument.
No, it is not irrevelant. Ya mind explaining how a line can be both "valid" and "irrelevant?" Woo-hoo that's a good one! Got a dictionary in the house? I suggest you read it.



He saved the ship. Is that what droids are programmed for? I've asked repeatedly for examples when R2 or other droids fixed shields in the PT, the silence has been deafening.

We don't know if he was 'just doing his job.' Maybe he crossed wires and attached the doohickey in ways that isn't in the manual, and thus fixed the shields and saved the ship.

chinabing
Originally posted by queeq
Why WERE they shocked and amazed? Good question, I can't understand WHY they said that. That is the whole poitn here: there is no reason for them to be so shocked. Please let us in on the secret, George, we as an audience want to participate in what's going on...
Uh, because R2 just fixed the shield and saved the ship, showing prowress beyond his programming. Maybe droids don't fix shields, or this the way he does, that's why they're so shocked. You don't need Lucas explaining every little thing, like a Svenjolly.

Establishing dialogue???? Is taht a neat word for easy writing??? When anyone would say without any emotion: I love you. Waht does that tell you? That this person ACTUALLY REALLY loves that person or that he's lying? You'd call that establishing dialogue (if he say he loves her, then he does) but if you don't really get it... it's worthless. Like the commendation scene with R2. It may have been great but why didn't we see its greatness???
Establishing dialogue, like saying somebody's name early in a movie when you never would. Like when Leia says "Darth Vader. Only you could be so bold." So, we learned the name of the big guy in the black suit, when Leia perfectly well knew his name. Like in ROTJ when Luke says "You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father."

chinabing
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Real issue: Why did Anakin kidnap Threepio in Episode II?
I'm sure we'll see the scene of Owen giving Threepio to Anakin when they put out the deleted scenes in the next DVD set, or the super-de-dooper set.

queeq
I hope not. That is soooooooooooooooooooo obsolete.

Tangible God
Originally posted by chinabing
No, it is not irrevelant. Ya mind explaining how a line can be both "valid" and "irrelevant?" Woo-hoo that's a good one! Got a dictionary in the house? I suggest you read it. Actually I haven't got one. Don't know what happened to it. I'll just take out "valid" and replace it wit "makes sense." Still useless though. Proves nothing.



Originally posted by chinabing
He saved the ship. Is that what droids are programmed for? I've asked repeatedly for examples when R2 or other droids fixed shields in the PT, the silence has been deafening.

We don't know if he was 'just doing his job.' Maybe he crossed wires and attached the doohickey in ways that isn't in the manual, and thus fixed the shields and saved the ship. So if R2 brought the Queen a Latte, he'd be called super uberly awesome because we haven't seen him deliver Latte's in the OT? Assumption much?

Tangible God
Originally posted by chinabing
Uh, because R2 just fixed the shield and saved the ship, showing prowress beyond his programming. Maybe droids don't fix shields, or this the way he does, that's why they're so shocked. You don't need Lucas explaining every little thing, like a Svenjolly. Do you KNOW he fixed the shield beyond his programming?

queeq
Go Tangible!

Why don't they get that it is stupid to commend a droid for just doing his job.

chinabing
Originally posted by Tangible God
I'll just take out "valid" and replace it wit "makes sense." Still useless though. Proves nothing.

"Makes sense" eh? Oh, Panaka's line makes sense. It's a fine line. It proves Panaka, Ric Olie, were amazed by R2's finesse.

Whethere you think they *should* have been amazed is another point. Face is, they were! That should be good enough for you. The fact R2 did some amazing work brings him into the whole saga.



Bring the queen a cupa joe isn't saving the lives of all aboard a ship. But R2 continues to surprise in every film.

Actually, we have to make assumptions because there isn't enough time in the movie for Lucas to explain the shield dynamics, love, the Force and the midichlorians and keep it under 6 hours.

chinabing
Originally posted by Tangible God
Do you KNOW he fixed the shield beyond his programming? Nobody does except Lucas. We're trying to figure out why the characters are amazed. Saying it's "crappy writing" is a cop-out.

It must be because it's R2's first amazing feat. Sure by the OT we're used to them.

queeq
But we don't SEE an amazing feat. We saw it ANH, some 30 years ago. Lucas could let R2 do clearly unusual things for a droids. But now we just can't see what's so great about his actions. All we have is Panaka (the compulsary black guy in a sherrif's role) and bloody Ric Olie. Well, I am so impressed.

chinabing
And the queen, she too was impressed. That's 3 characters with lines who were impressed. Maybe it is more difficult than we can see. I dunno. But what's on the screen tells us that what R2 did was incredible, according to those who were there. Fixing the shields after they blast away 3 of his counterparts is pretty amazing.

Lucas doesn't have time to explain everything. What is explained is R2 did an amazing thing. How do we know this? The characters said so, and more than one of them I might add. They practically gave R2 a medal.

queeq
The queen was not impressed, she just did what Panaka said and she believed him... Ridiculous. R2 didn't even get commended at the end of ANH and he sure did some major work in that film.

Tangible God
Originally posted by chinabing
And the queen, she too was impressed. That's 3 characters with lines who were impressed. Maybe it is more difficult than we can see. I dunno. But what's on the screen tells us that what R2 did was incredible, according to those who were there. Fixing the shields after they blast away 3 of his counterparts is pretty amazing.

Lucas doesn't have time to explain everything. What is explained is R2 did an amazing thing. How do we know this? The characters said so, and more than one of them I might add. They practically gave R2 a medal. The Queen's reason for her remark: She's young, naive, a softy. Not to mention she was lacking any emotion her tone. She was simply just agreeing with Panaka to move on to more interesting matters. Did you see how fast they all shrugged off the issue?

Panaka's: Did he actually say something which expressed impressment instead of delayed relief?

Ric Olie's: When he said his line it was at a moment when he realized he was going to get disintegrated. Again, massive relief.

Captain REX
The droid was doing what he was made for, not something particularly shocking, just relieving that he was able to do it.

queeq
Relieving???? Do R2-units suck that bad in general?

ragesRemorse
i would be more concerned about why ben diddnt remember r2d2 after only twenty years, seeing how r2d2 saved his life numerous times through out the first three episodes

queeq
He went senile in the desert.

vintageSW77
he mustve
all that nifty stowing away aboard ships,flying skill and Jedi mind tricks and he PAYS someone to take himself the boy two droids and no questions to Alderaan

queeq
Odd... but with a great performance.

vintageSW77
outstanding performance

but who knew
its odd watching Guinness since the PT thinking this dude took on Maul

queeq
Yeah, but kinda nice too. His strength is still there, just no longer physical.

But doesn't that go for a lot of older people. Check out Kirk Douglas for instance... he was Spartacus once.

vintageSW77
i prefered the mystery of what OBI got up to pre PT
those images of his exploits in battle,what the the clone wars were,his fighting Anakin by a volcano in a childs mind would never be realised

queeq
Yeah me too... Too much explained didn't add much to the drama of it all.

vintageSW77
i was looking at my Mcquarrie art of book last night with the pics of Coruscant and i got a whiff of nostalgia about Pre S.E/PT Star Wars
there was def a different feel to being an SW fan
now we know Coruscant etc inside out to me its not the same

i had a look at my OT figures and there def is a different vibe there too
and what with the pics ive posted i know this to be true

the PT ruined the SW vibe

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