Most/Least Validated Villains?

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Entity
Who would you say are the most and least validated in all of comics?
I want to know which villains you think have the most and least justified actions. Which ones had the best and worst reasons for doing what they have done?

As for my personal choices:

Most Validated: Magneto by far
Least Validated: Joker

NoFate007
Oh without a doubt, Magneto for the former. I'd agree with The Joker as well...but as I'm typing this out, a thought popped into my head...

If The Joker really isn't lying when he says he just wants to make people laugh, is he as evil as he comes off? Granted, the guy's a psycho and he's one of the best (if not THE best) villains out there, but if he has a motive of making people laugh...perhaps someone that is just driven by greed should top him, like Lex Luthor. Hm...

SpunkySmurph
I think Joker has the best reason for doing what he's done.

Namely: He's a psychopath. no expression

As for least, I'd say Mr. Sinister. He had the Morlocks massacred because he recognized his mutation methods were used on them

Entity
Originally posted by NoFate007
Oh without a doubt, Magneto for the former. I'd agree with The Joker as well...but as I'm typing this out, a thought popped into my head...

If The Joker really isn't lying when he says he just wants to make people laugh, is he as evil as he comes off? Granted, the guy's a psycho and he's one of the best (if not THE best) villains out there, but if he has a motive of making people laugh...perhaps someone that is just driven by greed should top him, like Lex Luthor. Hm...

While I am by no means saying Lex is validated in what he does I do believe there are ALLOT of MUCH WORSE motivated villains out there! IMO

Entity
Actually I think Joker is perfectly aware of what he is doing.
Granted he is sick but I have always really thought he was fully in control of his actions and aware of just how horrific they are.

He is just an incredibly sick bastard!

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Entity
Actually I think Joker is perfectly aware of what he is doing.
Granted he is sick but I have always really thought he was fully in control of his actions and aware of just how horrific they are.

He is just an incredibly sick bastard!

Oh, granted, he's in control

But that wasn't what was twisted after the chemical-bath.

It's his reasoning and logic.
He does things, lacking purpose or apparent cause, simply because he deems it 'neccessary', or because he feels like it. He doesnt for a second take into consideration such things as consequences, odds, or danger to himself.

He can't grasp such concepts (not to mention innocence and guilt) because he's a deranged psychopath.

Entity
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Oh, granted, he's in control

But that wasn't what was twisted after the chemical-bath.

It's his reasoning and logic.
He does things, lacking purpose or apparent cause, simply because he deems it 'neccessary', or because he feels like it. He doesnt for a second take into consideration such things as consequences, odds, or danger to himself.

He can't grasp such concepts (not to mention innocence and guilt) because he's a deranged psychopath.

I personally disagree. I still hold that I believe he is fully aware of the horror and guilt in what he does, I just think he gets off on it. He is a sociopath not a psychopath, meaning he know the difference between right and wrong, (or innocence and guilt) he just doesn't care.

Like I said, IMO, he's just a sick bastard

Grimm22
Originally posted by Entity
Who would you say are the most and least validated in all of comics?
I want to know which villains you think have the most and least justified actions. Which ones had the best and worst reasons for doing what they have done?

As for my personal choices:

Most Validated: Magneto by far
Least Validated: Joker

Magneto? What the f**k?

So being in the holocaust justifies going around and killing millions of people for no reason other than you're own evil view of superiority which only justifies the hate that is brought against the people you lead?!?

Yeah he's REALLY validated roll eyes (sarcastic)

Entity
Originally posted by Grimm22
Magneto? What the f**k?

So being in the holocaust justifies going around and killing millions of people for no reason other than you're own evil view of superiority which only justifies the hate that is brought against the people you lead?!?

Yeah he's REALLY validated roll eyes (sarcastic)

Its not just because he was in the holocaust, its because he is really doing it because he is truly trying to keep what happened to his Jewish people from happening to anyone else. He just believes that to stop their persecution they should assault in return.

Darth Vicious
Originally posted by Grimm22
Magneto? What the f**k?

So being in the holocaust justifies going around and killing millions of people for no reason other than you're own evil view of superiority which only justifies the hate that is brought against the people you lead?!?

Yeah he's REALLY validated roll eyes (sarcastic)

He is validated! As a jew he saw his people being persecuted and masscred and back then,powerless. As a mutant, he wants to protect his people, other mutants, from being persecuted the way the jews were. Which they have always being persecuted because they were different. Maybe his methods are extreme but deep down all he wants is help his people.


Least validated:Joker of course and maybe Dr.Doom, he really has no reason for being the way he is. Jealousy made him the way he is.

Grimm22
Originally posted by Entity
Its not just because he was in the holocaust, its because he is really doing it because he is truly trying to keep what happened to his Jewish people from happening to anyone else. He just believes that to stop their persecution they should assault in return.

Sure he is roll eyes (sarcastic)

You could say the same thing about Hitler in some ways no expression

He's a freakin facist, just without the arm patch and the death camps

Darth Vicious
Hitler was the one doing the persecuting! Mutants have been persecuted all their life. Magneto is just looking out for them, in his own, violent way big grin

Martian_mind
By persecuting non-mutants?

Entity
Originally posted by Grimm22
Sure he is roll eyes (sarcastic)

You could say the same thing about Hitler in some ways no expression

He's a freakin facist, just without the arm patch and the death camps

Magneto isn't Hitler at all!
Was Hitler doing what he did to protect a minority from the persecution of the stronger majority?
Did Hitler witness first hand the horror of having your own people massacred simply because they had different beliefs?
Or so some little shit with inferiority and compensation issues could make himself feel big bad and powerful just because he had been weak and constantly unsuccessful the rest of his life before?

Magneto may be becoming what he hates but it is for completely different and far more valid reasons.

Grimm22
So to protect a minority from oppression you have to make yourself into what people oppressed the minority for in the first place?!? What the f**k?

xmarksthespot
Magneto and Xavier are two sides of the same coin. Their motivation is the same, their methods differ. That's always been a central point to their confrontation. To say that he's just a standard cookie-cutter villain without acknowledging the complex underlying justification for his actions, simply shows a lack of understanding of the character.

Darth Vicious
Originally posted by Grimm22
So to protect a minority from oppression you have to make yourself into what people oppressed the minority for in the first place?!? What the f**k?

The question should be, If mutants werent persecuted, Would Magneto be the way he is? Probably not.

SpunkySmurph
Originally posted by Grimm22
So to protect a minority from oppression you have to make yourself into what people oppressed the minority for in the first place?!? What the f**k?

Punisher hates cold-blooded killers.

How does he solve this?

He kills them.

Grimm22
Originally posted by Darth Vicious
The question should be, If mutants werent persecuted, Would Magneto be the way he is? Probably not.

Maybe not, but that doesn't justify what he does in anyway no expression

Would a black man killing white people be justified because his ancestors were slaves? No

Is a jewish man killing germans justified because germans killed 6 million jewish people? No

Magneto doesn't even attack Mutant haters most of the time, he simply kills innocent people in his quest for power. He just hides behind his hypocritical 'justification'

Newjak
Actually a good Villian for being validated is the Juggernaut
In New Excalibur on his quest for the gem we find out that Cain's powers also bring forth and seem to amplify any evil thought he has. So his reason for being a bad guy is that his powers corrupted him


Least Validated: Joker or Dr. Doom

Grimm22
Originally posted by Newjak
Actually a good Villian for being validated is the Juggernaut
In New Excalibur on his quest for the gem we find out that Cain's powers also bring forth and seem to amplify any evil thought he has. So his reason for being a bad guy is that his powers corrupted him


Least Validated: Joker or Dr. Doom

The power didn't corrupt him

He was already that way. He simply used the power to fulfil his darkest desires

It wasn't until he met that mutant kid, until he started to change his ways

Newjak
Originally posted by Grimm22
The power didn't corrupt him

He was already that way. He simply used the power to fulfil his darkest desires

It wasn't until he met that mutant kid, until he started to change his ways No they changed that. We find out that yes Cain had anger issues and stuff like that before hand but that Gem brings it all to the forefront and amplifes it by basically having every evil uttered in his head over and over by his bad side.

Sp yeah Cain was a mean Son of before hand but he wasn't quite the maniac yet that didn't come out until he ahd the Gem's powers corrupting him.

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by Grimm22
Maybe not, but that doesn't justify what he does in anyway no expression

Would a black man killing white people be justified because his ancestors were slaves? No

Is a jewish man killing germans justified because germans killed 6 million jewish people? No

Magneto doesn't even attack Mutant haters most of the time, he simply kills innocent people in his quest for power. He just hides behind his hypocritical 'justification' No one is saying his murder of innocent people is justified.

But he has valid motive behind his descent to villainy.

As a child he witnessed the persecution and internment of his family as Jews, and his mother, father and sister were murdered in the Holocaust. As an adult he again witnessed his daughter's death due to indifference and bigotry.

The motivation for his actions has always been a fear that one day ordinary humans would persecute mutants for being different in the same way that Jews were persecuted in Nazi Germany. He believes that war between mutants and humans is an eventuality and he's prepared to fight back. His belief has been vindicated by the advent of things like the Mutant Registration Act, the nation of Genosha and their mutate slaves and Sentinels with the prime directive of hunting, capturing and killing mutants. Rachel Summers hails from a future where Magneto's nightmare has become reality.

The grand irony of his actions is that he has become the things he hates in order to prevent his nightmares from occurring.

As a villain his motivation is one of the most understandable and valid, which is the purpose of this thread. And under different circumstances he has been a hero at times.

To simply say "Well he kills people." defeats the purpose of the thread.

Jyppe
I think it's safe to say that Magneto isn't the most validated out there.

Soljer
Magneto is just the Malcolm X to Xavier's Martin Luthor.

Similar motivations, different methods.

willRules
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
No one is saying his murder of innocent people is justified.

But he has valid motive behind his descent to villainy.

As a child he witnessed the persecution and internment of his family as Jews, and his mother, father and sister were murdered in the Holocaust. As an adult he again witnessed his daughter's death due to indifference and bigotry.

The motivation for his actions has always been a fear that one day ordinary humans would persecute mutants for being different in the same way that Jews were persecuted in Nazi Germany. He believes that war between mutants and humans is an eventuality and he's prepared to fight back. His belief has been vindicated by the advent of things like the Mutant Registration Act, the nation of Genosha and their mutate slaves and Sentinels with the prime directive of hunting, capturing and killing mutants. Rachel Summers hails from a future where Magneto's nightmare has become reality.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The grand irony of his actions is that he has become the things he hates in order to prevent his nightmares from occurring.

I know what you mean and I think that's what makes it such an interesting storyline, and it's shown in one issue where Xavier sees this and points it out to Mags. yes

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3005/xaviervsmagsih7.th.jpg

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
As a villain his motivation is one of the most understandable and valid, which is the purpose of this thread. And under different circumstances he has been a hero at times.

I agree entirely he could be considered justified because of his intentions, but the actions he takes to solve the problem are in no way justified smile

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
To simply say "Well he kills people." defeats the purpose of the thread.

Whilst I see your point here I respectfully disagree. That statement ("Well he kills people"wink simply, yet very accurately shows the reasoning behind why ultimately Magneto isn't entirely justified yes

xmarksthespot
Originally posted by willRules
I agree entirely he could be considered justified because of his intentions, but the actions he takes to solve the problem are in no way justified smile

Whilst I see your point here I respectfully disagree. That statement ("Well he kills people"wink simply, yet very accurately shows the reasoning behind why ultimately Magneto isn't entirely justified yes Like I said, his methods are in no way justified. But his motives, the reasons behind him descending to villainy, are very much valid. No villain is going to be entirely justified, but as villains go one can empathize with Magneto's position a lot more than most.

batdude123
Joker, by far.

He's shown that if he had the power to do it (Emperor Joker), he'd kill trillions without giving it a second thought.

(Least validated, that is)

Grimm22
Originally posted by willRules
I know what you mean and I think that's what makes it such an interesting storyline, and it's shown in one issue where Xavier sees this and points it out to Mags. yes

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/3005/xaviervsmagsih7.th.jpg



I agree entirely he could be considered justified because of his intentions, but the actions he takes to solve the problem are in no way justified smile



Whilst I see your point here I respectfully disagree. That statement ("Well he kills people"wink simply, yet very accurately shows the reasoning behind why ultimately Magneto isn't entirely justified yes

Exactly yes

Magneto says he kills to protect 'his people', but he is also the one saying that mutants are superior to humans. Funny, Hitler said the same thing about the Jews roll eyes (sarcastic)

SpunkySmurph
I believe Joker may not be the most, but one of the most validated villains out there.

He's a psychopath. He has no way to reason with his own horrendous actions. I'm not justifying them, as Xmarks has pointed out. But he DOES have one of the best reasons for being the way he is.

If I have time, I'll try to find the scan of Batman explaining that to Spectre. That Joker can't be truly judged in a world of right and wrong, because he doesnt live or act by one. Where some people see everything in black or white, Joker sees completley in colors... (or gray. you can decide what metaphor you like best)

Yes, he's still a mass murderer, and by no means should he be pardoned. But he has a much more valid reason for killing someone then half the other villains out there. He has control over his actions, but is incabale of reasoning based on any sense of morality or justice.

SnakeEyes
Most validated: I'd have to go with Magneto as well as most of you. I mean, sure, his methods may be kind of evil to us, but afterall, he IS a villain still.

He's pushes the envelope in terms of having justification yet still being a villain and I think that's what Grimm needs to recognize. Nobody here (as far as I know) is saying that Magneto is right or that he's a hero or something, but we are saying that, as far as villains go, he is one of the most validated.

Least validated: Hmmm, maybe Carnage.

Lord Urizen
Least Validated Villian:



*Lawbringer QZTR- from the Negation Series, Lawbringer QZTR murders entire civlizations, destroys planets, and tortures mortals, claiming all is in service to his father, Lord Charon, but QZTR is a sick f*ck who delights in the disgusting methods of torturing and killing people.


He far surpasses the likes of Joker and Carnage, because Lawbringer QZTR is responsible for cosmic-scale genocide...he has killed and tortured farr more people than Joker or Carnage ever had, he makes them look like a joke....





Most Validated Villain:


Galactus- He devours worlds because he HAS TO. He has no choice, he would die otherwise. He is also an essential force to Marvel's universe. Nuff' said

Grimm22
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Most Validated Villain:


Galactus- He devours worlds because he HAS TO. He has no choice, he would die otherwise. He is also an essential force to Marvel's universe. Nuff' said

I wouldn't call Galactus a villain, but you're right with that yes

For least validated: Doom does come to mind, but at the same time I would say that he isn't as bad as other villans. Doom doesn't act without some kind of reason, meaning he doesn't just go out and kill people for no reason

Grimm22
Originally posted by SnakeEyes
Most validated: I'd have to go with Magneto as well as most of you. I mean, sure, his methods may be kind of evil to us, but afterall, he IS a villain still.

He's pushes the envelope in terms of having justification yet still being a villain and I think that's what Grimm needs to recognize. Nobody here (as far as I know) is saying that Magneto is right or that he's a hero or something, but we are saying that, as far as villains go, he is one of the most validated.

Least validated: Hmmm, maybe Carnage.

Pretty much erm

I'm not saying Magneto isn't validated at all, but he isn't nearly as validated as other villains

I would say for Most Validated, Zoom. He became a villain not for greed or out of hate, but to try to make Wally a better hero.

Rick/Genis
What about Demogoblin? Doesn't he think he's purifying his enemies?

Doctor S.T.D.
Most Validated :Ozymandias from the Watchmen. Was he right to do what he did ?, i think they'll be arguing that one for a long time to come.

Least Validated:The Spectre, although not a villain par se, could some explain to me why the **** an ALL LOVING God needs a spirit of Vengeance ?

Juntai
Originally posted by Doctor S.T.D.

Least Validated:The Spectre, although not a villain par se, could some explain to me why the **** an ALL LOVING God needs a spirit of Vengeance ?
If you read the Spectre comics sometime, you'll see they touch on that topic often.


The souls make that decision for themselves, Spectre just helps them along.

Doctor S.T.D.
Originally posted by Juntai
If you read the Spectre comics sometime, you'll see they touch on that topic often.


The souls make that decision for themselves, Spectre just helps them along.

Oh, so the wizard Shazam wanted to be killed. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Juntai
Originally posted by Doctor S.T.D.
Oh, so the wizard Shazam wanted to be killed. roll eyes (sarcastic) I said the soul, not the person. smile

And Shazam didn't die, only changed forms.
Billy is all he was.

willRules
Originally posted by Doctor S.T.D.
Oh, so the wizard Shazam wanted to be killed. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Nope, like everyone else who dies, he made the choice through lack of good moral reasoning yes

Doctor S.T.D.
Originally posted by Juntai


And Shazam didn't die, only changed forms.
Billy is all he was.

Not quite yet, but he will be eventually.

NoFate007
Originally posted by Entity
While I am by no means saying Lex is validated in what he does I do believe there are ALLOT of MUCH WORSE motivated villains out there! IMO

Oh yeah, there's tons that are worse. He was just the first one that popped into my mind lol Look at Carnage, for instance.

Lord Urizen
Spectre goes back and forth from playing the role of redeemer to playing the role of executioner...


He is just as good or evil as any other character in DC...

bigbran
Least: I want to say Doom or Thanos. Making a mistake, and now trying to kill/whatever the person who pointed it out?
Meeting Death...

Martian_mind
Most:Rocket Racer
Leastbig grinespero

SpunkySmurph
What about Mephisto? shrug

Validated?

Unvalidated?

Soujaboy
Most Validated: Mangog

Least Validated: Loki

Martian_mind
Originally posted by Soujaboy
Most Validated: Mangog

Least Validated: Loki

Most Validated:Loki

Least validated:Joker

Big Sexy
Originally posted by Grimm22
Exactly yes

Magneto says he kills to protect 'his people', but he is also the one saying that mutants are superior to humans. Funny, Hitler said the same thing about the Jews roll eyes (sarcastic) You have a little naivety to this. Hes been uprooted into this way of thinking because of his history. Its hard to take watching your family and friends massacred and think, "oh well I have the power to make sure this doesn't happen again but I wont, Just forgive and forget." Nobody thinks that way. He is justified but still eccentric because he sees the same process happening again, the only difference is the name of the government and the people being persecuted. The reasons why he formed his mindset is the same reason why the nation of islam formed.

Endless Mike
Red Skull for least

Symmetric Chaos
Magneto or Doom for most validated

grey fox
Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
What about Mephisto? shrug

Validated?

Unvalidated?

Validated , he has to do what he does or it causes a cosmic f*ck up.

Entity
.

Bentley
Kang is very validated, I mean, after watching several timelines in which people die and live at random you would certainly think it just doesn't matter anymore what you do to them.

Omega Vision
Most validated: Darkseid, he brings order to a chaotic universe and gets rid of that pesky ***** free-will. durkseid

Digi
Sandman

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