SS vs flash

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Jax_Jax
so some see to think the flash is high herald level.

can wally at full potential take SS??

guy222
Originally posted by Jax_Jax
so some see to think the flash is high herald level.

can wally at full potential take SS??

ss ftw

Jax_Jax
how come.?

im just curious.

i know he has cosmic speed, but wouldnt flash be able to take it from him?

guy222
Originally posted by Jax_Jax
how come.?

im just curious.

i know he has cosmic speed, but wouldnt flash be able to take it from him?

imho, surfer is galactus greatest herald. experience would be the key factor. surfer taking the majority

smile

Wally West
Surfer's speed isn't drawn from the speedforce, so Flash wouldn't be able to steal it.

HULKSTER04
Surfer easilly.

Stupid Rookie
Originally posted by Wally West
Surfer's speed isn't drawn from the speedforce, so Flash wouldn't be able to steal it.

Does someone's speed need to be drawn from the speedforce for that to work? If so then peope on this board are very mis-informed because people use that argument for him all the time.

I think SS's powers are way too versatile. He thinks, and can react at speeds that could allow him to catch the Flash, and his powers give him a multitude of ways to hurt Flash.

snoopdogg
Doesn't everthings speed in the DCU drawn from the Speedforce? I mean is it fair to assume the power cosmic does not work in the DCU also? In JLA/Avengers Wally did not have his powers while he was in the MU but on the same note while Infinity Gems were in the DCU they did not work either.

Wally draws his power from the Speedforce while Norrin draws his from the power cosmic.

Soljer
Wally can not only steal something's speed, he can also steal somethings kinetic energy, which are a mite bit different.

The Surfer can always further propel himself past the kinetic energy steal, but I was just pointing the idea out.

Also, as far as this fight goes, the Surfer wins. The Flash is high-herald level, but the Surfer is one of THE highest heralds.

ThePittman

Stupid Rookie
I really think the steal kinetic energy argument is my least favorite argument on KMC. I put it up there with SS turning his opponent into a toaster, only that one is rarely used.

Wally West
Originally posted by Stupid Rookie
Does someone's speed need to be drawn from the speedforce for that to work?
Yes, Wally and Jay tried stealing Zoom's speed but it didn't work as his speed isn't from the speedforce, it wouldn't work on Surfer.

I think this fight is a bit of a mis-match to be honest.

Juntai
Originally posted by Wally West
Yes, Wally and Jay tried stealing Zoom's speed but it didn't work as his speed isn't from the speedforce, it wouldn't work on Surfer.

I think this fight is a bit of a mis-match to be honest. Its because his speed isn't derived of energy, but time.

The speedforce is the sum of all motion.

Wally West
I don't have the issue in front of me to check but I'm pretty certain Jay or Wally says its because his speed isn't drawn from the speedforce. Surfer's speed is nothing to do with the speedforce so it wouldn't work.

Supreme being
Originally posted by Wally West
I don't have the issue in front of me to check but I'm pretty certain Jay or Wally says its because his speed isn't drawn from the speedforce. Surfer's speed is nothing to do with the speedforce so it wouldn't work.

Nope Juntai is spot on the speed force is speed and motion so if surfers moving his pretty vunerable to that form of attack.

Kutulu
Originally posted by Supreme being
Nope Juntai is spot on the speed force is speed and motion so if surfers moving his pretty vunerable to that form of attack.

Silver Surfer has time travelled in the past, in addition to travelling through dimensional barriers. You cannot do that with just kinetic energy, no matter how much you have.

Juntai
Originally posted by Kutulu
Silver Surfer has time travelled in the past, in addition to travelling through dimensional barriers. You cannot do that with just kinetic energy, no matter how much you have. Not like how Zoom's powers work.

DigiMark007
Meh, Surfer flies into space and destroys the planet Flash is on.

Juntai
Originally posted by DigiMark007
Meh, Surfer flies into space and destroys the planet Flash is on. Bloodlust

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise.

nimbus006
Besides stealing Surfers "speed", which from what most seem to think won't work, what else can Flash do to Surfer? Im quite curious.

Kutulu
Originally posted by Juntai
Not like how Zoom's powers work.

I wasn't saying he was exactly like zoom, I was just pointing out that his powers do not rely on kinetic energy for transportation, he uses the power cosmic, which would be unaffected by the speedforce.

Priest
Surfer Everytime.
Its been proven that Surfer has nano second reaction time, so he will be able to dodge a attack from flash. (Light travels about 30 centimeters in a nano second)
And to my knowledge, flash still need to accelerate his speed to reach lightspeed levels, Surfer dosent on the other hand. Surfer can easily KO flash before flash reaches ubber speeds.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by snoopdogg
Doesn't everthings speed in the DCU drawn from the Speedforce? I mean is it fair to assume the power cosmic does not work in the DCU also? In JLA/Avengers Wally did not have his powers while he was in the MU but on the same note while Infinity Gems were in the DCU they did not work either.

Wally draws his power from the Speedforce while Norrin draws his from the power cosmic.

Originally posted by Soljer
Wally can not only steal something's speed, he can also steal somethings kinetic energy, which are a mite bit different.

The Surfer can always further propel himself past the kinetic energy steal, but I was just pointing the idea out.

Also, as far as this fight goes, the Surfer wins. The Flash is high-herald level, but the Surfer is one of THE highest heralds.

Both of these quoted for the truth.

Metalmanx
Originally posted by Priest
Surfer Everytime.
Its been proven that Surfer has nano second reaction time, so he will be able to dodge a attack from flash. (Light travels about 30 centimeters in a nano second)
And to my knowledge, flash still need to accelerate his speed to reach lightspeed levels, Surfer dosent on the other hand. Surfer can easily KO flash before flash reaches ubber speeds.

Even though I agree that Surfer wins, your facts on Flash are a bit off.

Flash can pretty much achieve light speed instantly. He just, well, doesn't a lot of times.

And Flash's reaction times are in the FRACTIONS of a PICOsecond.

Juntai
Originally posted by Priest
Surfer Everytime.
Its been proven that Surfer has nano second reaction time, so he will be able to dodge a attack from flash. (Light travels about 30 centimeters in a nano second)
And to my knowledge, flash still need to accelerate his speed to reach lightspeed levels, Surfer dosent on the other hand. Surfer can easily KO flash before flash reaches ubber speeds. http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=flashv2148022rg.jpg
Check his reactions, a billionth of a second..
You'll also notice they only travel a couple of feet and Flash is already accelerating past light speed.
And that's WITHOUT, maxing it out and/or using the speed formula.

nimbus006
Originally posted by Juntai
Bloodlust

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise.

And Surfer did this not to long ago in his Annihilation mini. Ravenous pissed him off, so he channelled cosmic energy outward and destroyed the planet they were on.

Galvaclaw
Come one now. Surfer in no way has better combat speed than Flash. We've seen a Flash hurt Superboy Prime who has way in excess of Surfers resitance. His infinite mass punch is capable of dropping top tiers. Unless the Surfer is vastly out of character Flash wins 7/10

nimbus006
Isnt the power cosmic just energy derived from the cosmos/Universe. How does that not exist in DC?

Priest
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Come one now. Surfer in no way has better combat speed than Flash. We've seen a Flash hurt Superboy Prime who has way in excess of Surfers resitance. His infinite mass punch is capable of dropping top tiers. Unless the Surfer is vastly out of character Flash wins 7/10
Untill i see flash KOing superman like characters on the regular with his so called 'infinite mass punch' that attack is flawed.

StarsNeverFall7
No one said better, said he would be able to react and atleast have a clue. Surfer has all of Flash's speed qualities just he often doesn't use them. Add that to all the nifty little gadgets the power cosmic allows and Flash isn't winning this.

^ Exactly Priest.

Surfer>>>Superman>>>Flash

Stupid Rookie
Infinite mass punches are crap, I really hate that entire idea.

It is like, lets use a physics idea, but only use the slightest amount of truth from it, and just make the rest up, or use some PIS to explain why one law applies and another doesn't.

Galvaclaw
How regular do you want? He's been shown capable of knocking out Superman level characters. Zoom who he's trade blows with hits harder than Superman according to Wonderwoman.

Besides the Silver surfer uses his super reflexes once in a blue moon. Flash has taken down much more top tiers than the number of times Surfer has used his speed for anything other than fly at them while blasting.

BobbyD
Originally posted by Jax_Jax
so some see to think the flash is high herald level.

can wally at full potential take SS??


The answer is yes. Yes, Wally (at FP) CAN take SS.

In fact, at FP he takes most is my guess. erm

Priest
Originally posted by Galvaclaw
How regular do you want? He's been shown capable of knocking out Superman level characters. Zoom who he's trade blows with hits harder than Superman according to Wonderwoman.
The One time flash used it was agianst a White Martian, we all know that Supermans durability >Martain Manhunter.
Surfers Duribility> MM as well.
IMP is not gonna cut it.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Besides the Silver surfer uses his super reflexes once in a blue moon.
I agree, not as much as flash because flash's character is built on speed.

Originally posted by Galvaclaw
Flash has taken down much more top tiers than the number of times Surfer has used his speed for anything other than fly at them while blasting.
Lets compare the number of top teir characters sufer as beaten compared to flash...
Advantage Silver Surfer.
I will agree, that flash is faster than surfer, but Surfer still posses enough speed, with a mix of a shit load of other powers dervived from PC to take a healthy majority against Flash.

xmeat
a man with some speed vs a god.

Kutulu
Originally posted by Juntai
Check his reactions, a billionth of a second..
You'll also notice they only travel a couple of feet and Flash is already accelerating past light speed.
And that's WITHOUT, maxing it out and/or using the speed formula.

A nanosecond = one billionth of a second. Same thing.

Soljer
Originally posted by xmeat
a man with some speed vs a god.

The Hulk isn't in this thread, what are you talking about?

Kutulu
Silver Surfer flying light years in a moment:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/InfinityGauntlet4p35.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/InfinityGauntlet4p36.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/InfinityGauntlet4p37.jpg

Silver Surfer travelling a half million light years in a few seconds:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_Vol3-006.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_Vol3-007.jpg
Read the text: "Galaxies streak past them in a blur". A galaxy can be between one thousand and a hundred thousand parsecs wide. Each parsec = 3,262 light years. In a few seconds, they were seeing multiple galaxies whip past. Think about how fast that would be.

Silver Surfer can also see backwards and forwards in time.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_138_06.jpg

Here is Silver Surfer referencing a nano-second as being too long, and thinking faster than nanoseconds (billionths of a second):
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/marvel_comics_presents_001-29.jpg

Here is surfer dodging meteors in a meteor storm while at the same time scanning for a bomb:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Avengers_Annual_16-18.jpg

Here is surfer dodging beams from a ship's attacking guns:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/X-men_Unlimited_13-14.jpg

Now as far as surviving an infinite mass punch:
Here is surfer getting punched in the jaw by she-Hulk, and she hurts her hand while he doesn't feel it:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_036-03.jpg

Here is surfer going into a black hole with no damage:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer2-15.jpg

Survives a spoken word from Blackbolt unharmed, just dusts himself off from the rubble that collapsed around him:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_060_19.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_v3_060_20.jpg

Survives a fall from space to a planet's surface, and doesn't feel a thing:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_036-11.jpg

Point of all this?
* Silver Surfer can match, if not exceed, Flash in speed.
* Flash cannot steal speed from Silver Surfer, as he uses the Power Cosmic to transcend space and if necessary time.
* Silver Surfer would survive a punch from Flash, even a so-called infinite mass punch, as he can survive a blackhole with no damage. The times he has taken damage from physical attacks, were only when they were amplified (for example, Thanos amped his punches with his own form of cosmic energy, and Thor's attacks using his hammer were amplified through magic). Even the Hulk pounding on Surfer's face did little to nothing.
* In an arena match, both power's count for beneficial purposes, but since Surfer is based from Marvel he does not have the speed force present within him to grab energy from. His kinetic energy slowdown can be overcome through use of the power cosmic.

xmeat
Originally posted by Soljer
The Hulk isn't in this thread, what are you talking about? i meant surfer fool.

Soljer
Originally posted by xmeat
i meant surfer fool.

But...the Surfer isn't a god....confused

xmeat
Originally posted by Soljer
But...the Surfer isn't a god....confused could be someday.

Blair Wind
Has Surfer ever been at two different places, at the same time fighting two different battles with two different teams......all at the same time? With no one being the wiser?? Flash has whistle

I can see Flash beating Surfer if he plays it extremely smart, and only uses his best moves (Speed Force dump, Kinetic steal, saying the speed formula)

Kutulu
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Has Surfer ever been at two different places, at the same time fighting two different battles with two different teams......all at the same time? With no one being the wiser?? Flash has whistle

I can see Flash beating Surfer if he plays it extremely smart, and only uses his best moves (Speed Force dump, Kinetic steal, saying the speed formula)

Surfer can create holograms which fool even Galactus:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer6-30a.jpg
Here Surfer creates a hologram to talk to some people:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/ss_enslavers_40.jpg

Here surfer did create a clone of himself, with his powers:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_vol3_127-17.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_vol3_127-18.jpg

Flash isn't going to be stealing kinetic energy or otherwise from the Surfer; Surfer is the master of controlling energy. Surfer can even compress his body to the microverse (subatomic particle scale):
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/GalactusTheDevourer2-19a.jpg

Basically Flash has no chance of defeating Surfer. He would end up imprisoning Flash into his board like he did with Genis:
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_1996_122_17.jpg

Stupid Rookie
Kutulu is right. I don't see how flash could handle all that energy. Molecule man, who is one of the greatest forces in the MU admitted that SS could have burned him out when SS added his powers to MMs.

I don't see how Flash could handle this kind of energy, and that is assuming he could even absorb it.

Blair Wind
The problem is that HE does not need to handle the energys. He is powered by a outside force. erm

The speed force is the "god" (and I use that term very loosly) of motion (EVERY PART OF IT).

He can steal the energy, impart it on other objects, give it to himself, say the speed formula, and many other things.

And holograms mean nothing in this right confused

Can anyone answer the question that I posted earlier?
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Has Surfer ever been at two different places, at the same time fighting two different battles with two different teams......all at the same time? With no one being the wiser??

Soljer
I'm not saying that the Surfer is out of Flash's league. Just that the Flash won't be taking the Surfer for a majority.

Unless you happen to be great dane, that is.

Stupid Rookie
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Has Surfer ever been at two different places, at the same time fighting two different battles with two different teams......all at the same time? With no one being the wiser?? Flash has whistle

I can see Flash beating Surfer if he plays it extremely smart, and only uses his best moves (Speed Force dump, Kinetic steal, saying the speed formula)

Is this fight taking place at 2 different locations? No. Ok so your feat proves that Flash is fast, I don't think anyone was debating that.

Actually, now that I think about it, SS has given portions of his power to others to carry out battles elsewhere. So he actually can be in two places at the same time. HA!

Priest
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Has Surfer ever been at two different places, at the same time fighting two different battles with two different teams......all at the same time? With no one being the wiser?? Flash has whistle
he can by making a fully functional clone of himself.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_vol3_127-17.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Silver_Surfer_vol3_127-18.jpg

Originally posted by Blair Wind
I can see Flash beating Surfer if he plays it extremely smart, and only uses his best moves (Speed Force dump, Kinetic steal, saying the speed formula)
the speed Speed force, i never understood it competly, but if its like a bfr into another dimention, Surfer can come back. Surfer has the ability to travel thru dimentions that he has visited in the past.
http://photobucket.com/albums/b305/surfistaprateado/Thor_443-22.jpg

As for, stealing his Kietic energy, surfer can phase his body, and attack flash with TP attacks.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=5397090

Mindship
Flash certainly has the potential to hurt Surfer, but basically, this is a powerful one trick pony vs a powerful multi-trick pony.

Surfer flies into space and destroys the planet Flash is on. Why make such a mess? Surfer just blankets the world with an EMP for neural frequencies and knocks Flash out.

IMO, this is not a fair match.

Bentley
Yeah, phasing +TP=Flash going down like a chump.

Surfer becomes microscopic and Flash is not going to find him... Ever. He then proceeds to do whatever he wants against Wally.

Compared to Flash, Surfer IS a god.

Blair Wind
Originally posted by Stupid Rookie
Is this fight taking place at 2 different locations? No.


Actually.....yes no expression

Originally posted by Validus
JLA Secret Files & Origins 2004
-Wally is fast enough to be on two teams, fighting different enemies across the globe at the same time. oh

http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlasfo2004dvp16cq8.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlasfo2004dvp17io1.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlasfo2004dvp18aq7.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlasfo2004dvp19uo8.jpg
http://img175.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlasfo2004dvp20yl5.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlasfo2004dvp21ra3.jpg
http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlasfo2004dvp22io2.jpg
http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jlasfo2004dvp23nl3.jpg

I'm not saying that Flash wins majority, but this ONE trick pony's ONE trick is a tactical advantage that he can use in many different ways erm

Saying the speed formula gives him an even bigger speed advantage, just throwing that out there

Also, giving others powers has nothing to do with this fight confused
Its SS vs Flash.....where is this random bystander he can give his powers too?

I like Surfer, I do, but I can see flash taking at the very least 4/10

(and Ive yet to see Surfer HIMSELF be in two places at once erm )

Jax_Jax
well i think saying flash cant take SS momentum really doesnt make sense. if the argument here is because its nt from the speedforce, then SS cant do anything to flash that has to deal with the power cosmic becuse it doesnt exist in the dcu. im just saying. i really do think flash would be able to steal his speed. and not only that, but the flash has speedforce attnuement right? all knowledge of anything moving at high speeds of all time. so he'd know wher ss is at all times right? atleast while hes moving.

if anything, i'd say this fight were to end up at around 5/5.

but i really do think flash can beat SS

spidey-dude
SS easy

nimbus006
Originally posted by Jax_Jax
well i think saying flash cant take SS momentum really doesnt make sense. if the argument here is because its nt from the speedforce, then SS cant do anything to flash that has to deal with the power cosmic becuse it doesnt exist in the dcu. im just saying. i really do think flash would be able to steal his speed. and not only that, but the flash has speedforce attnuement right? all knowledge of anything moving at high speeds of all time. so he'd know wher ss is at all times right? atleast while hes moving.

if anything, i'd say this fight were to end up at around 5/5.

but i really do think flash can beat SS

Again, I ask isnt't cosmic power energy derived from the cosmos/Universe. That is to say, power channelled through the emense heat/radiation/energy that stars, nebulas, pulsars etc... give off.

If this is the case, why wouldn't it exist in the DC Universe?

Juntai
Originally posted by nimbus006
Again, I ask isnt't cosmic power energy derived from the cosmos/Universe. That is to say, power channelled through the emense heat/radiation/energy that stars, nebulas, pulsars etc... give off.

If this is the case, why wouldn't it exist in the DC Universe? And Speedforce is just a fancy name for the sum of all motion. Doesn't motion exist in Marvel?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Juntai
And Speedforce is just a fancy name for the sum of all motion. Doesn't motion exist in Marvel?

its been shown not to (but the fight is on neutral ground anyway both have all their powers)

nimbus006
Originally posted by Juntai
And Speedforce is just a fancy name for the sum of all motion. Doesn't motion exist in Marvel?

I didn't say it doesn't exist in Marvel. I just wanted to know why power cosmic wouldn't exist in DC. wink

King Kandy
If Flash sticks to his top moves (Speed Force dump, etc) and not stupid stuff like those finger snap things, he can get a couple wins.

But it doesn't seem like he ever fights to his smartest use of said powers.

darthgoober
I honestly can't see Flash winning any against Surfer. Don't get me wrong, I know that Flash is a bad MoFo, but Surfer has to many counters against Flash's abilities. I doubt that Flash could just dump him into the speedforce because Surfer is capable of moving fast enough to escape, and is able to traverse dimensions anyway so BFR is pretty much out for Flash. Kinetic energy absorption doesn't seem to be an option, because Surfer could probably generate more kinetic than Flash could steal. IMP's would admittedly hurt, but Surfer's handled things like stars before without to much trouble(I'm speaking of the reference of an IMP hitting with the force of a White Dwarf star).

So I see Surfer taking it 10/10, but I'm sure they would all be hard fought wins.

And just so no one says I'm biased, I'll say now that Surfer is the ONLY herald I see taking 10/10 against. Flash would take the majority against most of the others(and against some of the ones that are fairly low on the Herald totem pole like Nova, I actually see Flash taking it 10/10).

Juntai
Originally posted by darthgoober
I honestly can't see Flash winning any against Surfer. Don't get me wrong, I know that Flash is a bad MoFo, but Surfer has to many counters against Flash's abilities. I doubt that Flash could just dump him into the speedforce because Surfer is capable of moving fast enough to escape, and is able to traverse dimensions anyway so BFR is pretty much out for Flash. Kinetic energy absorption doesn't seem to be an option, because Surfer could probably generate more kinetic than Flash could steal. IMP's would admittedly hurt, but Surfer's handled things like stars before without to much trouble(I'm speaking of the reference of an IMP hitting with the force of a White Dwarf star).

So I see Surfer taking it 10/10, but I'm sure they would all be hard fought wins.

And just so no one says I'm biased, I'll say now that Surfer is the ONLY herald I see taking 10/10 against. Flash would take the majority against most of the others(and against some of the ones that are fairly low on the Herald totem pole like Nova, I actually see Flash taking it 10/10). It hits with the MASS of a star not the heat.
It's like being slapped upside the head with a planet... or a few hudnred, depending on what size of star we're talking about.

I don't think Flash has ever reached a limit of what amount of kinetic energy he can take. He's mainlined to the source of all kinetic energy. He is the avatar of motion.

But yeah Surfer would probably take majority.

darthgoober
Originally posted by Juntai
It hits with the MASS of a star not the heat.
It's like being slapped upside the head with a planet... or a few hudnred, depending on what size of star we're talking about.

I don't think Flash has ever reached a limit of what amount of kinetic energy he can take. He's mainlined to the source of all kinetic energy. He is the avatar of motion.

But yeah Surfer would probably take majority.
Yes he hits with the mass of a star. But Surfer can withstand the mass of a black hole pretty much without worry, and I'm pretty sure that's higher. I'm not saying that it wouldn't knock Surfer for a loop, I just don't see it causing nearly as much damage to Surfer as does against the people it's actually used against.

And I'm pretty sure that Surfer's energy output has never really reached a limit, so as I said, I can see Surfer countering that fairly easily also.

That's why I have to give Surfer 10/10 against Flash. It's not that Flash isn't powerful, I just feel that Surfer has a counter for pretty much all of Flashes best tricks, while Flash is lacking a counter for many of Norrin's.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yes he hits with the mass of a star. But Surfer can withstand the mass of a black hole pretty much without worry, and I'm pretty sure that's higher.

Stars and blackholes are both extremely variable in weight, however within our universe no single object can have more mass than a black hole.

Juntai
Would you say Thanos' fist hits harder than the mass of a star packed into a human fist moving lightspeed?

darthgoober
Originally posted by Juntai
Would you say Thanos' fist hits harder than the mass of a star packed into a human fist moving lightspeed?
Well Thanos is a special case because we have no idea just how hard he's hitting. His ability to amp up his strength with cosmic energy makes a judging something like that all but impossible. But considering the fact that he's able to hit hard enough to make Odin grimace and knock around users of the power gem, I would have to say yes(but like I said, there's no way to tell HOW much harder). I know it doesn't make much sense, but the fact is that there's evidence to back it.

Mindship
Originally posted by Blair Wind
I'm not saying that Flash wins majority, but this ONE trick pony's ONE trick is a tactical advantage that he can use in many different ways

Agreed. Imagine what a multi-trick pony could do.

Stupid Rookie
Originally posted by Blair Wind
Actually.....yes no expression



Wait, why is this fight going on in two places at the same time?

Kutulu
Originally posted by Juntai
Would you say Thanos' fist hits harder than the mass of a star packed into a human fist moving lightspeed?

As I mentioned before, Thanos amps his attacks with cosmic force.

If you look at any of the classic scans where Thanos smacks around the Hulk or Surfer, his fists are glowing with a nimbus of energy.

It basically combines an energy blast with his punch in order to make his punches / hits hurt way more than they ordinarily would. I think Surfer would take a 10/10 here. Surfer can traverse any dimension he's been to before, making escaping the speed force a piece of cake. Surfer has flown straight through a black hole without being hurt. He can shrink his body down to the size of atoms without damaging himself; his body basically cannot die from purely physical attacks.

Anybody who can fly through a sun and suffer absolutely zero effect from it, or fly straight through a black hole without slowing down, is not going to be hurt by a punch that uses less mass than what he's already dealt with. Even Superman has had trouble getting out of a black hole, for Surfer it's just a quick flight through.

By Crom!
Originally posted by Juntai
And Speedforce is just a fancy name for the sum of all motion. Doesn't motion exist in Marvel?

Sadly the speed force doesn't exist in MArvel. JLA/ Avengers showed this.

UMP would still hurt surfer.

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