Sins Real and Imagined

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Lord Urizen
***I am not sure whether or not this is more suited for the Philosophy Forum, if so, feel free to relocate it:****




Some people have an interesting beleif about the concept of Hell. I have found that some Christians and Buddhists truly beleive that we create our own Hell





I. Christian Perspective: Not the general Christian Perspective, but a more unique one is that God does not create Hell. There is no hellfire, there is no eternal damnation, there is no "second death", there is no Satan watching you burn.


We create Hell, in Life and in Death. They beleive that when we die, we get what we expect..we get what we create. We suffer for sins both real and imagined..and when we arrive in this Hell, we torture ourselves until we can find it in ourselves to forgive ourselves.


This Hell can take the form of anything: An unbearable Heartbreak, a state of poverty, wandering an empty world, etc. Until we snap out of it, then we can enter Heaven....our own Heaven.


This Hell is rather unique, because it is temporary, and we punish ourselves and we decide when to stop. This Hell is spawned when we die with regrets.

These Regrets are what birth Hell




*The problem with this concept, is that if you have no guilt for your wrongs, then you do not suffer.





II. Buddhist Perspective All Buddhists beleive that we create Heaven and Hell on Earth. Some Buddhists beleive that we carry this Heaven or Hell with us after Death into our next life.


But this, however, seems to contradict the First Noble Truth of Dukkha- that which is Life is Suffering. That implies that Hell is inevitable, but then again it depends how you define Hell.

Is suffering Hell ?

Some Buddhists see Hell as a submission and recreation of that Suffering. WE cannot prevent suffering...but we can overpower and end certain sufferings.







This thread is entitled Sins both Real and Imagined because no matter what religion you are, everyone is guilty of having punished themselves in some way, or having allowed themselves to suffer for things they were responsible for, and things they weren't responsible for.

Sometimes, we feel we did something wrong, or ARE something wrong, and we punish ourselves for it...instead of holding ourselves in high regard, we look down on ourselves, and blame ourselves....and sometimes we are the only person suffering for this imagined offense.

Holding regrets is a burden. A lack of ability to forgive ourselves, is a punishment we inflict on our self, a punishment no one else, not God, not Satan, not another being is responsible for...only you.


Could Hell be nothing more than submission into our own guilt ? Could Hell exist simply because we FEEL we deserve it ? Do WE truly create it ?

Shakyamunison
Lord Urizen check out the ten worlds.

http://sgi-usa.org/buddhism/faqs/tenworlds.htm

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Lord Urizen check out the ten worlds.

http://sgi-usa.org/buddhism/faqs/tenworlds.htm


I think that is amazing, and it's so familiar....


I have been recently travelling back and forth between the worlds of Hunger and Humanity



I've had a taste of "Love"...you know, the romantic love, but I've felt a hunger for that feeling for years. I always seem to come close to "finding it", just to see it was either a temporary condition or some sort of delusion I experienced in an effort to feel pure happiness.


I still crave it....it's addicting. Having someone lust for your presence, your body, your company, your affection, etc. It feels so good....

I felt Heaven at least twice in my life. That feeling of absolute pure happiness, which dies very quickly.


I have felt Hell more often. More so in the past than in the present. I used to be suicidal lo0o0ong ago, for many reasons. Good thing my hell is a lot weaker today than it was back then.



I cannot quite say I have lived in the worlds of Anger or Animality, however. Maybe in slight variances, but never in a prolonged period.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I think that is amazing, and it's so familiar....


I have been recently travelling back and forth between the worlds of Hunger and Humanity



I've had a taste of "Love"...you know, the romantic love, but I've felt a hunger for that feeling for years. I always seem to come close to "finding it", just to see it was either a temporary condition or some sort of delusion I experienced in an effort to feel pure happiness.


I still crave it....it's addicting. Having someone lust for your presence, your body, your company, your affection, etc. It feels so good....

I felt Heaven at least twice in my life. That feeling of absolute pure happiness, which dies very quickly.


I have felt Hell more often. More so in the past than in the present. I used to be suicidal lo0o0ong ago, for many reasons. Good thing my hell is a lot weaker today than it was back then.



I cannot quite say I have lived in the worlds of Anger or Animality, however. Maybe in slight variances, but never in a prolonged period.

For many years (most of my life) I lived in Hell. I have learned how to not go there. I try to be in the upper 4 worlds, but I'm human...

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
For many years (most of my life) I lived in Hell. I have learned how to not go there. I try to be in the upper 4 worlds, but I'm human...




I may not visit Hell anymore, but I certainly feel like a prisoner of Hunger at times...prisoner to my loneliness, prisoner to my anger, and prisoner to my sex drive

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I may not visit Hell anymore, but I certainly feel like a prisoner of Hunger at times...prisoner to my loneliness, prisoner to my anger, and prisoner to my sex drive

Here is the trick: Inside of each world is the other 9 worlds. So, if you are in the world of Hunger, there is the world of Realization, and you can leave Hunger by realizing your own power. Or you can enter the world of Bodhisattva and find a way to make your Hunger help other people.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Here is the trick: Inside of each world is the other 9 worlds. So, if you are in the world of Hunger, there is the world of Realization, and you can leave Hunger by realizing your own power. Or you can enter the world of Bodhisattva and find a way to make your Hunger help other people.




I want to make someone happy by being with me. I want it to be sincere, not just for sex or companionship....I know that is selfish, but everyone (other than freinds and family) who I have tried to make happy, has either abused it or not cared for it.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I want to make someone happy by being with me. I want it to be sincere, not just for sex or companionship....I know that is selfish, but everyone (other than freinds and family) who I have tried to make happy, has either abused it or not cared for it.

That is a good start. In time you can learn how to remove yourself from the attachment that you have just made. But attachments are an important starting point. Just remember that all suffering comes from attachments.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is a good start. In time you can learn how to remove yourself from the attachment that you have just made. But attachments are an important starting point. Just remember that all suffering comes from attachments.



I realize that my personal suffering comes from my longing to find someone who would value me infinately, and not use me, to find someone I can trust 100%.


But, somehow, I am finding it very hard, almost impossible, to rid myself of the desire to have that kind of Lover.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I realize that my personal suffering comes from my longing to find someone who would value me infinately, and not use me, to find someone I can trust 100%.


But, somehow, I am finding it very hard, almost impossible, to rid myself of the desire to have that kind of Lover.

That is not a bad thing; just realize that it causes pain. If someone stuck you with a pin, it would really hurt, but you could take a pin and jab yourself and it would not hurt as much. The reason why that happens is that you are in control. Have control and realize that you are waiting for that one right person who will come alone. I know that it will happen, and you have to know that it will happen. Be positive, but not needy and it will come.

Symmetric Chaos
Hell is a creation of guilt. No force in the universe can do more damage to you than yourself.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I realize that my personal suffering comes from my longing to find someone who would value me infinately, and not use me, to find someone I can trust 100%.


But, somehow, I am finding it very hard, almost impossible, to rid myself of the desire to have that kind of Lover. This is why thinking about whom you associate yourself with is important, especially someone you want to be intimate with. Choosing to committ goes a lot farther than simply relying on feelings, something that can come and go.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
This is why thinking about whom you associate yourself with is important, especially someone you want to be intimate with. Choosing to committ goes a lot farther than simply relying on feelings, something that can come and go.



Originally posted by Shaky
That is not a bad thing; just realize that it causes pain. If someone stuck you with a pin, it would really hurt, but you could take a pin and jab yourself and it would not hurt as much. The reason why that happens is that you are in control. Have control and realize that you are waiting for that one right person who will come alone. I know that it will happen, and you have to know that it will happen. Be positive, but not needy and it will come.






I feel very emotionally spent....

I have given my full self to so many people, really unappreciative people....I feel very used and very f*cked over pretty much.



And it makes me question myself....the thing is i know I'm a great guy, and im pretty handsome too, but despite all that, I sometimes feel like I'll never "be good enough"...it's almost like I expect the next person to betray me in some kind of way.

I'm sick of that.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Hell is a creation of guilt. No force in the universe can do more damage to you than yourself.



I agree thumb up



That is basically what this thread is getting at....

Shakyamunison

Lord Urizen

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Not really....


My trust in people in general has gone down though....I'm tired of this continous cycle of trial and error with people, but maybe that's an inevitable part of looking for love.

People will always fail you. That is just a fact of life.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
People will always fail you. That is just a fact of life.


Guess, I gotta get used to it laughing


We're only human...I think I need to let go of my romantic ideals...romance is rare now...

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Guess, I gotta get used to it laughing


We're only human...I think I need to let go of my romantic ideals...romance is rare now...

When you let go of attachments you free yourself. A romantic idea is an attachment. That does not mean that you have to loose something; you may end up gaining more then you hoped for.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
People will always fail you. That is just a fact of life.


I just thought about this....there is a major difference between someone showing up late for or cancelling a date...and then someone totally backstabbing and abandoning you....

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
When you let go of attachments you free yourself. A romantic idea is an attachment. That does not mean that you have to loose something; you may end up gaining more then you hoped for.


I think I need to let go of my expectations of people, rather.


It's okay, I thought this through....I'm still young, I still have a lot to learn, but the lesson that I keep having to learn is that no one else contains my happiness in thier hands. I have to find that myself, and on my own.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I just thought about this....there is a major difference between someone showing up late for or cancelling a date...and then someone totally backstabbing and abandoning you....
There is?? confused

Alliance
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
When you let go of attachments you free yourself.

So we should live our lives from a disinterested perspective?

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
There is?? confused

Yes


be late for a date, or cancel on me....so what, hurt my pride, ill get over it...and we'll hang out again.



Abandon me, talk shit about me, or cut me out of your life....it's a greater offense.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Yes


be late for a date, or cancel on me....so what, hurt my pride, ill get over it...and we'll hang out again.



Abandon me, talk shit about me, or cut me out of your life....it's a greater offense.
I was kidding.

In seriousness, I have to respectfully disagree with Shaky's advice to you. Do not allow yourself to become apathic and aloof because you will lose more than you will gain. I think that you need to take a more intellectually and less emotional approach to your relationships if I am correctly interpreting what you have said. Sometimes thinking first will save you a lot of hurt in the long run even if it goes against your emotions of the time.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
I was kidding.

In seriousness, I have to respectfully disagree with Shaky's advice to you. Do not allow yourself to become apathic and aloof because you will lose more than you will gain. I think that you need to take a more intellectually and less emotional approach to your relationships if I am correctly interpreting what you have said. Sometimes thinking first will save you a lot of hurt in the long run even if it goes against your emotions of the time.



I think what Shaky was telling me was that as long as I desire to be loved, suffering will be an evitable part of that journey.

I don't thnk he is suggesting that I give up either....I don't thnk he is trying to convince me to stop searching for the "right person", but for me to expect that this journey will contain suffering of some sort....because people are not perfect, and that as long as my happiness depends on another person, than my happiness will be fragile and temporary.


I can understand and even agree with that, HOWEVER....I am not willing to simply surrender my personal journey to avoid pain. If I must deal with more pain in my search, then SO BE IT...I've delt with a great deal of pain and suffering in my life before, and there's no reason for me to cower and try to avoid it now.

I agree with you though.

I shouldn't trust my emotions as absolute truth, because they have been wrong and they have let me down. Emotions are simply my response to the stimuli, NOT a valid basis to act upon.

A part of me is so superficial, that I would not date anyone I did not thnk was hott.....yes, I know, that's immature and self limitting, but at this point, I cannot get myself to have a romantic or sexual relationship with someone I am not physically attracted to.....I haven't grown past that, i dont know if i ever will.

However, I have matured to the point where I do put personality before looks....if someone is drop dead gorgeous, but inconsiderate and abusive, it's bye bye for them.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I think what Shaky was telling me was that as long as I desire to be loved, suffering will be an evitable part of that journey.

I don't thnk he is suggesting that I give up either....I don't thnk he is trying to convince me to stop searching for the "right person", but for me to expect that this journey will contain suffering of some sort....because people are not perfect, and that as long as my happiness depends on another person, than my happiness will be fragile and temporary.


I can understand and even agree with that, HOWEVER....I am not willing to simply surrender my personal journey to avoid pain. If I must deal with more pain in my search, then SO BE IT...I've delt with a great deal of pain and suffering in my life before, and there's no reason for me to cower and try to avoid it now.

I agree with you though.

I shouldn't trust my emotions as absolute truth, because they have been wrong and they have let me down. Emotions are simply my response to the stimuli, NOT a valid basis to act upon.

A part of me is so superficial, that I would not date anyone I did not thnk was hott.....yes, I know, that's immature and self limitting, but at this point, I cannot get myself to have a romantic or sexual relationship with someone I am not physically attracted to.....I haven't grown past that, i dont know if i ever will.

However, I have matured to the point where I do put personality before looks....if someone is drop dead gorgeous, but inconsiderate and abusive, it's bye bye for them.
I actually find don't think it is unhealthy to focus a lot of looks, however, that is where intellectual consideration comes into play. Physical beauty is often a good place to start and limit your search so that you don't waste time on every woman you meet, but you can not limit your search to physical beauty. Since you already acknowledged the last part though, I guess I'm just preaching to the choir.

Alliance
My art teacher was in a church choir. He was atheist and sketched during the sermons.

Nellinator
laughing Well, I'm not sure how to respond, but I think the meaning still comes across.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
I just thought about this....there is a major difference between someone showing up late for or cancelling a date...and then someone totally backstabbing and abandoning you....

I know, but I was staying on the positive side.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Alliance
So we should live our lives from a disinterested perspective?

I don't know where you get that. Letting go of attachments is not being disinterested; it is understanding that the true treasure of life is only found within.

We should never give up the struggle, for the struggle is the way to learn. However, why suffer more then is needed. If we realize that suffering is because of attachments, we can then make better choses.

Nellinator
I disagree. I do not believe that the treasure of life is found within. When I die it will not be knowing that I found happiness for myself, but rather that I made and helped others be happy. If all we have is ourself life would be meaningless. I help others to help them, not for myself because that is what I believe is right and I think that is the most important thing. Searching for one's own happiness is a major reason why depression and lonliness are such major issues in North American society, they are too self-centered.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
I disagree. I do not believe that the treasure of life is found within. When I die it will not be knowing that I found happiness for myself, but rather that I made and helped others be happy. If all we have is ourself life would be meaningless. I help others to help them, not for myself because that is what I believe is right and I think that is the most important thing. Searching for one's own happiness is a major reason why depression and lonliness are such major issues in North American society, they are too self-centered.

You are confused about what I am saying. Somehow you have equated and liked the treasure within which leads to complete happiness with physical happiness. The two are not the same. As far as helping others,



http://www.nbaa.tv/IntroBook/ch6.html

I am sorry that you reject your life, but that is common for Christians and it is one of the thinks that causes so much suffering in their lives.

Nellinator
I don't reject my life, I just see it as less important than other people's. Actually, when I came to that state of mind I became happy. I just think it is sad when people act for their own gain and for their own purposes even when they help others. In my experience that is something that Buddhists are often guilty of, acting only for themselves and becoming disinterested and aloof of others.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
I don't reject my life, I just see it as less important than other people's. Actually, when I came to that state of mind I became happy. I just think it is sad when people act for their own gain and for their own purposes even when they help others. In my experience that is something that Buddhists are often guilty of, acting only for themselves and becoming disinterested and aloof of others.

Did you not read what I quoted Bodhisattva?

Thundar
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Not really....


My trust in people in general has gone down though....I'm tired of this continous cycle of trial and error with people, but maybe that's an inevitable part of looking for love.

Perhaps there's some greater calling or experience God has in store for you. I believe that when one completely looses their faith, attachment and love of this world; it is the beginning of them developing a truly lasting and loving relationship with their creator.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Nellinator
I just think it is sad when people act for their own gain and for their own purposes even when they help others.

Christian missionaries and Evangelists for example.




Originally posted by Nellinator
In my experience that is something that Buddhists are often guilty of, acting only for themselves and becoming disinterested and aloof of others.

I am curious as to the extent of your experience with Buddhists since the above statement is not consistent with the Sangha, the Third Refuge of Buddhism.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Christian missionaries and Evangelists for example.

I am curious as to the extent of your experience with Buddhists since the above statement is not consistent with the Sangha, the Third Refuge of Buddhism.
A lot of them don't do it for themselves.

Just like Christianity, not all Buddhist follow what their text says.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Nellinator
Just like Christianity, not all Buddhist follow what their text says.

That is not what I asked you. What is the extent of your experience with Buddhists for you to generalize, "Buddhists are often guilty of acting only for themselves and becoming disinterested and aloof of others?"

Nellinator
When I was in high school a lot of my friends and acquaintances were Buddhist, at university Buddhism was extremely popular (more of a fad than a religion though), and now I deal with a lot of Buddhists at work.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Nellinator
When I was in high school a lot of my friends and acquaintances were Buddhist, at university Buddhism was extremely popular (more of a fad than a religion though), and now I deal with a lot of Buddhists at work.

That is equivocal to drawing a conclusion about Christians based experiences with Americans who claim to be Christian simply because America is a highly Judeo-Christian influenced culture; Unrepresentative Sample.

Thundar
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
That is equivocal to drawing a conclusion about Christians based experiences with Americans who claim to be Christian simply because America is a highly Judeo-Christian influenced culture; Unrepresentative Sample.

I don't really think he was doing that. He was really basing his opinions on the religion itself, not on the individual.

Being human we're all prone to being selfish, hypocritical, and doing evil things to others at times. These actions are not solely dependant upon the religion one follows, they're just part of human nature. That being stated, Buddhism is a very self oriented religion. I seriously have doubts and concerns about any belief system that values individual opinion, over good moral character.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Thundar
I don't really think he was doing that. He was really basing his opinions on the religion itself, not on the individual.

By his own admission, he is making generalizations about Buddhism based on his experiences with Buddhists:

Originally posted by Nellinator
In my experience that is something that Buddhists are often guilty of, acting only for themselves and becoming disinterested and aloof of others.




Originally posted by Thundar
Being human we're all prone to being selfish, hypocritical, and doing evil things to others at times. These actions are not solely dependant upon the religion one follows, they're just part of human nature. That being stated, Buddhism is a very self oriented religion. I seriously have doubts and concerns about any belief system that values individual opinion, over good moral character.

On what do you base the conclusion that Buddhism "values individual opinion over good moral character?"

Thundar
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
By his own admission, he is making generalizations about Buddhism based on his experiences with Buddhists:


Understood. But he did not make a generalization, because he did not relate his opinion to all of those who practice Buddhism. He just related it to his own experience.



Originally posted by Adam_PoE
On what do you base the conclusion that Buddhism "values individual opinion over good moral character?"


I'm paraphrasing so bear with me. The Eightfold Path is essentially the Buddhist equivolent of the ten commandments and it is very broad, as it really has no clear cut moral base to it. Much of it refers to an individual determining what is "right" for themselves, as oppossed to setting anything in stone as being right, or of good moral character.

And even if one does possess a good moral compass and does what is right, Buddhism generally directs one to do right for themselves and their own enlightenment, not for others.

So as it has been stated already. Buddhism is indeed a very aloof-self centered religion. This does not mean that all Buddhists are aloof and selfish, just that the religion is self oriented.

Adam_PoE

Thundar

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Thundar
...But what does truth represent? That's the point I was making. "Truth" covers an extremely broad spectrum in Buddhism, and is based on the interpretations of the individual.

What are you talking about? You say the word "truth", but you assume that it means the same to everyone. What does it mean to you?

Thundar
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What are you talking about? You say the word "truth", but you assume that it means the same to everyone. What does it mean to you?

God is truth. You have the right to subjectively interpret what I have just stated as false, but despite your interpretation, it doesn't change the absoluteness of what I have said.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Thundar
Did you honestly think that myself and others can't go back to the previous page and read what he said?!!

What I think is that you need to read the previous page again to see what was actually stated.




Originally posted by Thundar
As I stated before. He related this to his own experience, and did not make a generalization about those who practice Buddhism as a whole. It's extremely ridiculous that you posted and misquoted only a portion of what he said, and extremely childish as well. Whatever little bit of credibility your argument had, has been extremely diminished due to you pulling this little stunt.

Case in point, the fact that he "related this to his own experience" was never in question. I acknowledged that this was the case when I asked:

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
What is the extent of your experience with Buddhists for you to generalize, "Buddhists are often guilty of acting only for themselves and becoming disinterested and aloof of others?"

To which he replied:

Originally posted by Nellinator
When I was in high school a lot of my friends and acquaintances were Buddhist, at university Buddhism was extremely popular (more of a fad than a religion though), and now I deal with a lot of Buddhists at work.

Had he not been making a generalization about Buddhists based on his experiences with Buddhists, he whould have responded, "I am not making a generalization about Buddhists."

Furthermore, since I acknowledged that his argument is based on his experiences, and he conceded that his argument is based on his experiences, where is the misrepresentation?




Originally posted by Thundar
But what does truth represent? That's the point I was making. "Truth" covers an extremely broad spectrum in Buddhism, and is based on the interpretations of the individual.

By all means, illustrate how "truth" is subjective in Buddhism.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Thundar
That being stated, Buddhism is a very self oriented religion. I seriously have doubts and concerns about any belief system that values individual opinion, over good moral character.



You could not be more wrong .... no


Buddhism clearly teaches there is no such thing as self, and to put the illusion of self above all else is foolish and harmful.


Buddhism teaches us that we are all one, and that true happiness can only be acheived by making others happy.


You really shown an ingorance towards Buddhism in this statement.

Lord Urizen
FYI Thundar, let me teach you a lil about Buddhism:


You seem to only be familiar with the surface concepts. However, your beleif that Buddhism is a self centered philosophy is so wrong, so painfull incorrect.


Buddhism is the opposite of self centeredness.


Samsara is the opposite of Nirvana, the cycle of birth and re birth, which we continue to endure for as long as we desire the attachments to this world and beleive in our own ego. To beleive in a self, to beleive that we are individual and independent of all others, is a falsehood according to Buddhism.


This beleif in a self, is what keeps us trapped in Samsara. To ever reach Nirvana, which is union with all things and the death of this illusion of self and detachment from all other reality, we must let go of the concept of ego.



According to Buddhism, the "self" is nothing more than a composition of the Five Aggregates, which is why Buddhists do not beleive in a soul.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Physical beauty is often a good place to start and limit your search so that you don't waste time on every woman you meet, but you can not limit your search to physical beauty.



Reminder: I prefer men

FeceMan
Yeah, yeah, you're bisexual.

Alliance
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Reminder: I prefer men

Even being bisexual doesn't excuse a triple post. erm

Nellinator
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Reminder: I prefer men
I was thinking that when I was posting, but was too lazy and conflicted to change it. Hope you take the meaning with you though wink

Alliance
this begs the question...

does man = woman?

Nellinator
In what way are you asking?

Alliance
In the most ambiguous way possible.

Nellinator
Continue

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Alliance
this begs the question...

does man = woman?

There is a thread for that HERE.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Thundar
God is truth. You have the right to subjectively interpret what I have just stated as false, but despite your interpretation, it doesn't change the absoluteness of what I have said.


You didn't say anything. Sure you said god is truth, but that has no real meaning. First what is god to you, then what is truth.

Thundar
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
What I think is that you need to read the previous page again to see what was actually stated.



Case in point, the fact that he "related this to his own experience" was never in question. I acknowledged that this was the case when I asked:



To which he replied:



Had he not been making a generalization about Buddhists based on his experiences with Buddhists, he whould have responded, "I am not making a generalization about Buddhists."

Furthermore, since I acknowledged that his argument is based on his experiences, and he conceded that his argument is based on his experiences, where is the misrepresentation?

By all means, illustrate how "truth" is subjective in Buddhism.


This is getting rather ridiculous. It's obvious that you purposely misquoted and misinterpreted what was said. He did not make a generalization, seeing as how he only referred to his own experience, not the experiences of others. This is getting a bit off topic and grossly repetitive, so I'll let this be my final post on this issue.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Thundar
This is getting rather ridiculous. It's obvious that you purposely misquoted and misinterpreted what was said. He did not make a generalization, seeing as how he only referred to his own experience, not the experiences of others. This is getting a bit off topic and grossly repetitive, so I'll let this be my final post on this issue.

How does the inclusion of the prepositional phrase "in my experience," affect whether or not the statement that follows is a generalization?

It does not.

Stating, "In my experience, Christians are foolish," is no less a generalization than stating, "Christians are foolish."

Hopefully, you have sufficiently embarrassed yourself enough not to speak out of turn in the future.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by FeceMan
Yeah, yeah, you're bisexual.


Yeah, yeah...you beleive in God

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