Does god make mistakes

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black_goku#1
i believe there is a reason the old testament is rarely mentioned except when the story shows gods grace god was wrathful to the extreme and then he became all forgiving does he make mistakes i say yes he does me being one... which would mean i believe that he exits but like us he is flawed and so is christianity((oops spelled that wrong)) hmmm i think i just solved my religious delimma eek! Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance eek! dance

Thundar
No.

Is God Perfect?

Yes

Time teh close the thread. stick out tongue

Symmetric Chaos
Does God make mistakes?

A) No that why he's God anything he does is correct (see the bible)
B) Yes consistently (see the bible)

Nellinator
I quote the OT more than I quote the NT. I like the OT better and despite what people might say, it is full of more grace than wrath. One reason that the wrath of God is rarely shown in the NT would probably be the fact that it covers only about 50 years of times and the OT covers around 4000.

Lord Urizen
God is a Bisexual Vampire who watches porn....he's perfection droolio

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Thundar
No.

Is God Perfect?

Yes

Time teh close the thread. stick out tongue

Then why did god tell Noah that he regretted making man? Sounds like a mistake to me.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then why did god tell Noah that he regretted making man? Sounds like a mistake to me.


hysterical

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then why did god tell Noah that he regretted making man? Sounds like a mistake to me.

how about forgetting to take that tree out of Eden

black_goku#1
I did read the bible, and through out most of the old testemant even somethings in the new i see things that could have been done better. NT for example Why did god turn his bake on jesus on the cross i have heard many different speculations

1) He couldnt bare to see all the sins of mankind in jesus

2) He couldnt watch his son be crucified as a sacrifice

3)Jesus looked up at god to ask for help and god turned away


I have been to many churches and the pastors bishops and evangelists have all usually given me those answers leavung a window into the possible doubt god had on his decision. Now i bet an arguement may be posed well jesus confirmed that he could go through it that he had to and god looked back thus jesus erased his doubt but ladies and gentleman if you doubt a decision that it probably was a mistake in the first place. What if gods perfection lies in the fact that He teaches and learns from mistakes, that to be god like you have to be human?

Nellinator
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then why did god tell Noah that he regretted making man? Sounds like a mistake to me.
Umm... He didn't tell Noah that at all. God did see the need for the destruction of all human flesh exluding Noah.

Lord Urizen
Maybe there is No such thing as Perfection, and perfection is just a myth we created because we feel so inferior and powerless

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator
Umm... He didn't tell Noah that at all. God did see the need for the destruction of all human flesh exluding Noah.

You don't call that regret? (generally if I make something and then decide to remove it from the face of the Earth its because I regreted making it)

black_goku#1
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You don't call that regret? (generally if I make something and then decide to remove it from the face of the Earth its because I regreted making it)

lol you made something and wiped it off the face of the earth? wow wish i was you lol no anyway perhaps leaving the tree was a test in general and meant to be failed...but the noah one has a grand point

Nellinator
Well, the theory is that indeed all human flesh except Noah's family had been corrupted into the Nephilim which needed to be destroyed.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
Umm... He didn't tell Noah that at all. God did see the need for the destruction of all human flesh exluding Noah.

Genesis 6:1 -
God saw the wickedness of man and regretted making man

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by black_goku#1
lol you made something and wiped it off the face of the earth? wow wish i was you lol no anyway perhaps leaving the tree was a test in general and meant to be failed...but the noah one has a grand point

I have wiped several things off the face of the earth. shifty

I agree the tree was probably a test but it still makes him seem like a total jerk.

black_goku#1
Nephilm... Whats that one mean?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Genesis 6:1 -
God saw the wickedness of man and regretted making man

its Genesis 6:6 actualy

Originally posted by black_goku#1
Nephilm... Whats that one mean?

We have a thread on it somewhere

black_goku#1
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I have wiped several things off the face of the earth. shifty

I agree the tree was probably a test but it still makes him seem like a total jerk.
undsputedly or what about making...abraham...? sacrifice his son and test the poor old mans sanity by going "OOh fooled you ya dont have ta kill him its cool man you shoulda seen the look on your face though 'kill your son' and you were all 'if its your wish' hahahahaha oh good times nice ta knoow ya respect me though"

so the dialouge may have been excessive but seriously the point is valid

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
its Genesis 6:6 actualy



We have a thread on it somewhere

Does that fact that I got the number wrong mean that my point is no good?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Does that fact that I got the number wrong mean that my point is no good?

Not at all.

I'm just emotionally insecure and pointing out others short coming makes me feel like a big man. (besides its better than one of the theists just saying "Genesis 6:1 doesn't say that" and not mention that 6:6 doe)

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Not at all.

I'm just emotionally insecure and pointing out others short coming makes me feel like a big man. (besides its better than one of the theists just saying "Genesis 6:1 doesn't say that" and not mention that 6:6 doe)

There is hope for you. laughing

black_goku#1
... nobody refuted what i said about jesus?.... Wow..... i figured someone would toss bible verses at me just to make me feel stupid...say are you people sleeping or is my theory becoming harder to disprove?

debbiejo
God just likes to change his human based mind......Quite different from a real gods mind...

BackFire
Originally posted by black_goku#1
i believe there is a reason the old testament is rarely mentioned except when the story shows gods grace god was wrathful to the extreme and then he became all forgiving does he make mistakes i say yes he does me being one... which would mean i believe that he exits but like us he is flawed and so is christianity((oops spelled that wrong)) hmmm i think i just solved my religious delimma eek! Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance eek! dance

Yes, watch the news some night. All the horrible shit in this world can't be intentional.

Nellinator
He never said it to Noah which was my point, plus whatever translation you are using is weak because regret does not explain the emotion that God was feeling. The word is much more similar to repent, which is similar to regret, but in the context does not indicate regret. Within the context it is obvious that God is saddened that mankind became corrupted of their own volition and by Satan's corruption of their flesh.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
He never said it to Noah which was my point, plus whatever translation you are using is weak because regret does not explain the emotion that God was feeling. The word is much more similar to repent, which is similar to regret, but in the context does not indicate regret. Within the context it is obvious that God is saddened that mankind became corrupted of their own volition and by Satan's corruption of their flesh.

Splitting hairs.

Nellinator
Not really, God never made a mistake, his creation was corrupted by us and the devil. There is a big difference and that is the point of this thread if I have any reading comprehension.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Nellinator
Not really, God never made a mistake, his creation was corrupted by us and the devil. There is a big difference and that is the point of this thread if I have any reading comprehension.

But we are his creation. If we can corrupt something it is still his fault in the end.

Same for the "devil".

Symmetric Chaos
6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually
6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

1) it sounds like this Lord fellow thinks he messed up and wants to try again
2) who is he repenting too?

Nellinator
He isn't repenting to anyone which is part of the point. It's an expression of pain at seeing them so far from the path he laid out for them. It makes no statement that he wants to try again, indeed he keeps his creation intact showing that he didn't mess up, we did.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Nellinator
He isn't repenting to anyone which is part of the point. It's an expression of pain at seeing them so far from the path he laid out for them. It makes no statement that he wants to try again, indeed he keeps his creation intact showing that he didn't mess up, we did. Do you believe it to have actually happened? Or is it metaphorical to you?

Nellinator
Believe what to have happened? The flood?

Bardock42
Originally posted by Nellinator
Believe what to have happened? The flood?

Yes.

Nellinator
Yes, there is definite evidence of it in both anthropological and archaelogical fields. The extent of it I have yet to decide. At the very least it was over a large area of the Middle East.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator
It's an expression of pain at seeing them so far from the path he laid out for them. It makes no statement that he wants to try again, indeed he keeps his creation intact showing that he didn't mess up, we did.

He still failed to create creatures that could follow his "obvious" path. That would be a mistake.

Nellinator
That would be called free will. I believe that he created us knowing that we would screw up.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator
I believe that he created us knowing that we would screw up.

What kind of nut-case is this guy?

He made us so that we would screw up and then punishes us because we do exactly what he expected. Thats insane.

Bardock42
Originally posted by Nellinator
That would be called free will. I believe that he created us knowing that we would screw up.

Then we couldn't actually decide. It was already certain we would screw up.

Thundar
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
6:5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually
6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

1) it sounds like this Lord fellow thinks he messed up and wants to try again
2) who is he repenting too?


I don't see how this insinuates that God made a mistake. One can have regret or sorrow over something, without having made a mistake.

For example, I may call your above argument stupid, particularly since the scripture above clearly displays God's unconditional love, and his ability to demonstrate mercy, despite evil being commited against him.

I may regret or have compassion on you after calling this argument stupid, paticularly if I have hurt your feelings in doing so. But that doesn't necessarily mean that I have made a mistake in calling it stupid. It's just another demonstration of me being a loving guy.

With that being said, I truly regret if anything I've stated above has hurt your feelings.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Thundar
I don't see how this insinuates that God made a mistake. One can have regret or sorrow over something, without having made a mistake.

If God is not admitting to having made a mistake then he's been awful vindictive and childish. He feels regret that something he did didn't work out correctly. So subconciously God thinks he messed up.

Originally posted by Thundar
With that being said, I truly regret if anything I've stated above has hurt your feelings.

You haven't.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
What kind of nut-case is this guy?

He made us so that we would screw up and then punishes us because we do exactly what he expected. Thats insane.
He did not make us to screw up, but he knew that we would. There is a big difference. Why would anyone have children knowing that they will leave?

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Nellinator
He did not make us to screw up, but he knew that we would. There is a big difference. Why would anyone have children knowing that they will leave?

He knew but didn't stop us... eek! BTW who is this "he" you keep talking about? wink

Thundar
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If God is not admitting to having made a mistake then he's been awful vindictive and childish. He feels regret that something he did didn't work out correctly. So subconciously God thinks he messed up.


I know you've already stated that you don't believe in God and all, but let's assume for a minute that you do.

Imagine for a minute if you will, that this supremely powerful being, who has control over space, time, reality, and everything else you can imagine, comes to you(and only you) and says.."mr. Symmetric, I've screwed up, I shouldn't have done what I did..but I did, and I'm sorry."

After he admits this mistake to you, what do you think the ultimate outcome will be for you, me, and everyone else?

How comfortable would you feel knowing that ultimate power and ultimate knowledge, was in the hands of something that was capable of slipping up and misusing this power at any time?

To me, the answers are quite obvious. I shudder to think about the fate of this universe, if it was to fall in the hands of a fallible God. Lucky for both of us, the God that possesses such might is truly a loving one. I can tell you right now my friend, that neither of us would be alive right now, if a fallible God possessed it.

Thundar
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
He knew but didn't stop us... eek! BTW who is this "he" you keep talking about? wink

I think "he" refers to the ultimate "Lion Monarch"...or as Christians refer to him.."God." I believe that you can be with this "Lion Monarch" to someday, if you really want to. Please take note though, that being with him, doesn't necessarily mean that you are him.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Thundar
I think "he" refers to the ultimate "Lion Monarch"...or as Christians refer to him.."God." I believe that you can be with this "Lion Monarch" to someday, if you really want to. Please take note though, that being with him, doesn't necessarily mean that you are him.

The Lion Monarch is taken from Buddhist mythology.

" To be uncompromising when confronting evil, like a lion monarch"
For the Sake pf Peace pp 40-60

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Thundar
I know you've already stated that you don't believe in God and all, but let's assume for a minute that you do.

Imagine for a minute if you will, that this supremely powerful being, who has control over space, time, reality, and everything else you can imagine, comes to you(and only you) and says.."mr. Symmetric, I've screwed up, I shouldn't have done what I did..but I did, and I'm sorry."

After he admits this mistake to you, what do you think the ultimate outcome will be for you, me, and everyone else?

laughing laughing

The idea of God apologizing us funny I'll admit. Douglas Adams once wrote that God's final message to creation was "WE APOLOGIZE FOR THE INCONVENIECE" (in all capital flaming letters the size of buildings)

But IMO I would rather live in a world controled by a God that would be able to say "Gee this didn't quite work out. I guess I messed up. I'll have to remember this next time".


Originally posted by Thundar

How comfortable would you feel knowing that ultimate power and ultimate knowledge, was in the hands of something that was capable of slipping up and misusing this power at any time?

To me, the answers are quite obvious. I shudder to think about the fate of this universe, if it was to fall in the hands of a fallible God. Lucky for both of us, the God that possesses such might is truly a loving one. I can tell you right now my friend, that neither of us would be alive right now, if a fallible God possessed it.

You should watch Melancholy my friend.

FeceMan
Originally posted by black_goku#1
i believe there is a reason the old testament is rarely mentioned except when the story shows gods grace god was wrathful to the extreme and then he became all forgiving does he make mistakes i say yes he does me being one... which would mean i believe that he exits but like us he is flawed and so is christianity((oops spelled that wrong)) hmmm i think i just solved my religious delimma eek! Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance eek! dance
Yes, He does, as evidenced by your existence (though we can't throw out a night of drunken debauchery involving malfunctioning prophylactics).

stick out tongue

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Nellinator
Not really, God never made a mistake, his creation was corrupted by us and the devil. There is a big difference and that is the point of this thread if I have any reading comprehension.

Creating something that could be corrupted in the first place is His mistake.

Storm
Originally posted by Thundar
I don't see how this insinuates that God made a mistake. One can have regret or sorrow over something, without having made a mistake.
Medieval Christian theologians like Anselm and even Augustine argued that an absolutely perfect being (an important attribute commonly ascribed to God) must be impassible, being incapable of any feelings, but particularly sorrow or suffering.

However, not all theologians (especially today) accept such a notion.

Mindship
Depends what you mean by "God."

As I would use the word: of course God makes mistakes. If he didn't, then "mistakes" would be something "outside of God," in which case, God would not be Ultimate, Absolute and Infinite. There'd be a bigger reality: God-and-mistakes.

Basically, this thread is an example-specific variation of the Omnipotence Paradox, a question unanswerable by reason.

debbiejo
Originally posted by Mindship
Depends what you mean by "God."

As I would use the word: of course God makes mistakes. If he didn't, then "mistakes" would be something "outside of God," in which case, God would not be Ultimate, Absolute and Infinite. There'd be a bigger reality: God-and-mistakes.

Basically, this thread is an example-specific variation of the Omnipotence Paradox, a question unanswerable by reason. Yeah. Some belive if you look outside the box of what we would call god, then god doesn't make mistakes. There is a bigger picture. A little example, not a good one though: A person who loves ants watches them as a rain storm starts to come in, the person pushes the ants into the hole yelling, "I am helping you", the ants see it as "What the heck is going on? This life is chaotic and full of stress." But the bigger picture is that it's for the ants own good maybe to change and adapt, maybe to be a learning experience, maybe a miracle. No judgment in it only the force of the Universe....

Not quite a good example.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Creating something that could be corrupted in the first place is His mistake.
It's not mistake. He was capable of creating something that was incorruptible and perfect, but He chose not to. Making something flawed on purpose does not equal imperfection of the creator.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator
It's not mistake. He was capable of creating something that was incorruptible and perfect, but He chose not to.

Then why punish us for not being perfect?

Nellinator
He gives us the truth and then if we reject it's our fault. If we accept, but then don't strive for perfection found in God it is our fault. If we accept it and honour God with our lives it is our blessing.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator
He gives us the truth and then if we reject it's our fault. If we accept, but then don't strive for perfection found in God it is our fault. If we accept it and honour God with our lives it is our blessing.

I accept God's truth but not your truth (watcha gonna do now?)

Nellinator
That depends on what you think God's truth is.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
Yes, there is definite evidence of it in both anthropological and archaelogical fields. The extent of it I have yet to decide. At the very least it was over a large area of the Middle East.

Where is this proof?

"I have yet to decide"? Who do you think you are?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator
That depends on what you think God's truth is.

For the sake of argument lets say it's not what you think it is.

Nellinator
Umm... they dug up Ur and found a layer 12 ft. thick of silt that could only have been left by a massive flood. Underneath that they found a far more primitive civilization.

I can't decide what I think for myself? I'm not allowed to believe what I think is most probable for the situation based on the evidence? I don't know what your problem is.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
For the sake of argument lets say it's not what you think it is.
I'd simply say that if your version of God's truth is not Biblical supportable it is invalid.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator
I'd simply say that if your version of God's truth is not Biblical supportable it is invalid.

Lets say I have spoken with God and he explicitly told me that the Bible was a lie.

Nellinator
Okay.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Nellinator
Okay.

I'm just being a jerk.

But do you really believe that the bible is the only real truth?

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
Umm... they dug up Ur and found a layer 12 ft. thick of silt that could only have been left by a massive flood. Underneath that they found a far more primitive civilization.

I can't decide what I think for myself? I'm not allowed to believe what I think is most probable for the situation based on the evidence? I don't know what your problem is.

Umm..they dug up an Ur. But that's not to say it was the biblical Ur. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Middle East is a hell of a lot bigger than Ur.

You can't decide what you think for yourself? Is that rhetorical?

Nellinator
Depends what you mean by truth. I believe that is truth that when you mix sodium hydroxide and hydrochloric acid that you get table salt and water which the Bible does not mention and I do believe that non-Bible believers are more than capable of telling the truth...
Sow what do you mean by 'real truth'.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Nellinator
It's not mistake. He was capable of creating something that was incorruptible and perfect, but He chose not to. Making something flawed on purpose does not equal imperfection of the creator.

Why would a perfect being deliberately create an imperfect creation?

Symmetric Chaos
Well I assume that based on your Bible arguments that truth in this case would be what God believes.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Umm..they dug up an Ur. But that's not to say it was the biblical Ur. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Middle East is a hell of a lot bigger than Ur.

You can't decide what you think for yourself? Is that rhetorical?
The dig at Ur was the first to turn up evidence of the Flood (or the Deluge as many like to call it) and led to searching other places in the Middle East that confirmed its happening. However, the extent of the flooding seems to dissipate moving out from the Middle East as the silt layer gets thinner. Anthropologically almost every tribe worldwide has a legend of a massive destructive flood which likely has truth behind it.

It was rhetorical. I'm wondering why you think it is cocky of me to decided what I believe about things, but if your problem was with my wording inferring that I thought I had the authorative decision I apologize.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Why would a perfect being deliberately create an imperfect creation?
You should ask him because that is something that is not revealed to us. I tend to think that perhaps God was lonely (or bored), almost as if his existence had no purpose without us.

Symmetric Chaos:
Yes, I believe that what God says to be truth and I believe He says it through the Bible.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
The dig at Ur was the first to turn up evidence of the Flood (or the Deluge as many like to call it) and led to searching other places in the Middle East that confirmed its happening. However, the extent of the flooding seems to dissipate moving out from the Middle East as the silt layer gets thinner. Anthropologically almost every tribe worldwide has a legend of a massive destructive flood which likely has truth behind it.

It was rhetorical. I'm wondering why you think it is cocky of me to decided what I believe about things, but if your problem was with my wording inferring that I thought I had the authorative decision I apologize.

It's cocky of you to decide what you believe about things when you talk about god doing most of your really important thinking for you.

Wow, thanks for the update. I'm aware that there are many cultures that direct their religious mythology back to some flood event. But, we aren't talking about "almost every tribe" are we? We're talking about the foundation of your version of christianity. There are no geographical foot notes in your beliefs in any other guidelines of the bible. Did Jesus get crucified just for those people who heard him speak in person? Or did his actions effect all of humanity? Did god use the rabbit ears hand gesture to indicate he was only about "the humanity" of the middle east? Or was it supposed to apply to his creation, as in all of his creation?

Don't lend credence to your argument by citing examples from religions, past and present, to corroborate your opinion when your opinion of those myths and religions are that they're all crap in light of the one real truth you have been preaching about on this site for teh last 6 months.

As for modern Ur, as soon as they come up with some solid proof that it's the UR mentioned in the bible, I'll buy it.

Adam_PoE
Originally posted by Nellinator
You should ask him because that is something that is not revealed to us. I tend to think that perhaps God was lonely (or bored), almost as if his existence had no purpose without us.

I did not ask Him, I asked you.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
It's cocky of you to decide what you believe about things when you talk about god doing most of your really important thinking for you.

Wow, thanks for the update. I'm aware that there are many cultures that direct their religious mythology back to some flood event. But, we aren't talking about "almost every tribe" are we? We're talking about the foundation of your version of christianity. There are no geographical foot notes in your beliefs in any other guidelines of the bible. Did Jesus get crucified just for those people who heard him speak in person? Or did his actions effect all of humanity? Did god use the rabbit ears hand gesture to indicate he was only about "the humanity" of the middle east? Or was it supposed to apply to his creation, as in all of his creation?

Don't lend credence to your argument by citing examples from religions, past and present, to corroborate your opinion when your opinion of those myths and religions are that they're all crap in light of the one real truth you have been preaching about on this site for teh last 6 months.

As for modern Ur, as soon as they come up with some solid proof that it's the UR mentioned in the bible, I'll buy it. Perhaps it would be best if you understood that I believe that most ancient religions carry grains of the truth in them, but that the Bible is the only piece of literature that maintains that truth.

There is evidence. The Bible says that Abraham came from 'Ur of the Chaldees'. Modern Ur is known to be a Chaldean city. There is no evidence that the Bible is speaking of another city.

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by Nellinator
Perhaps it would be best if you understood that I believe that most ancient religions carry grains of the truth in them, but that the Bible is the only piece of literature that maintains that truth.

There is evidence. The Bible says that Abraham came from 'Ur of the Chaldees'. Modern Ur is known to be a Chaldean city. There is no evidence that the Bible is speaking of another city.


For once, I'm not talking about the bible being in error. I'm talking about modern science being wrong. Looking back, there is no factual basis for Ur being in the location of the modern archaeological site. In fact, there are arguments about Abraham being Chaldean or Syrian. Mesopotamia, or modern Iraq, and Syria are two different places.

Nellinator
Interesting, although the inscriptions on the bricks of ziggurat attribute its construction to Ur-Nannu as does the inscriptions left by Nabonidus the Babylonian king that restored it. If I remember correctly other sources from other digs seem to point to the modern Ur indeed being a Chaldean capital.

Abraham's national identity isn't quite clear perhaps, but he seems to have been a nomadic person. It wouldn't surprise me if he had travelled to many places during his life and that it was simply that he was at Ur when he was called by God. Actually, there seems to be evidence that Abraham was actually from the regions around Mari.

Capt_Fantastic
Are you aware of how many cities were called Ur in biblical times? Are you aware of how many cities that were called Ur had ziggurats?

Symmetric Chaos
Does God make mistakes?

Not if it is God.

Does the deity in the Bible make really bad choices?

Yes.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
I did not ask Him, I asked you.
And I gave you my opinion. It's too bad I don't speak for God though.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
And I gave you my opinion. It's too bad I don't speak for God though.


Yes you do, God cannot speak for himself due to his lack of existance.

Nellinator
Good one. no expression

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Good one. no expression


I wasn't joking.... no

Nellinator
I could have sworn...

AngryManatee
no it wasn't a mistake, it's called re-writing the story to fit your needs. King James Bible = perfect example. It was the first time Lucifer was associated with darkness, rather than the morning star, which is what he was called in the old testament.

Templares
This is why i like Greek gods. They dont claim perfection or at least take the moral high ground towards mortals.

Mesopotamian cities that are covered in silt are proof of LOCALIZED floods not of Noah's global flood.

AngryManatee
Apparently most of America thinks so since we circimcise our children sad

black_goku#1
... wow a lot of people want me to burn in hell, this is only fueling my belifs that christianty is nothing more than a imperialist religion with no founding other than the belif of scare tactics and belif that there can be no wrong in what they say.

Symmetric Chaos
I go to a Christian church that would never condem ANYONE to hell.

debbiejo
What church is that?

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by debbiejo
What church is that?

Presbyterian Church USA

Atlantis001
No.

debbiejo
Presbyterians teach the concept of hell........Unity churches don't though..

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by debbiejo
Presbyterians teach the concept of hell........Unity churches don't though..

I happen to go to a Presbyterian church that is extremely accepting of other religions and beliefs. So although the concept of hell probably exists we're not saying that people will go there because they disagree with us.

debbiejo
Well ok...Have you read the membership doctrine agreements? If it's in there then it would be in the signed membership papers. One cannot become a member if they don't agree with a particular doctrine, even if it's not taught.....Just curious.

Symmetric Chaos
We have the Book of Order which requires people to agree to certain things if they wish to be ordained as Elders or Pastors etc.

Christians can join our Church without being rebaptised and no one is barred from entering the church grounds no matter their faith.

debbiejo
Don't they sign a membership contract to become a member though? Most people don't think about what they are signing though. That happened to me once. I just liked the church, and joined (only time I joined a church), then I went back a year later and look at the paper I signed and it had doctrine that I didn't agree with such as the secret rapture amongst other things....Most people blow these things off, but I like to agree with what I sign, so I left.........Of course by this time they were praying, visiting/stalking me... sad

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by debbiejo
Don't they sign a membership contract to become a member though? Most people don't think about what they are signing though. That happened to me once. I just liked the church, and joined (only time I joined a church), then I went back a year later and look at the paper I signed and it had doctrine that I didn't agree with such as the secret rapture amongst other things....Most people blow these things off, but I like to agree with what I sign, so I left.........Of course by this time they were praying, visiting/stalking me... sad

laughing out loud

In my chruch you don't have to sign anything as far as I know.

Besides this is a really laid back church. I mean they've given out a parody of the WorstCaseSurvivalHandbook.

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