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Sidious vs Yoda
Rules:
.No lightsabers
.Only Force
Location:
Jedi temple, train room



I personally think, Yoda just

Uuuh, didn't Palpatine beat Yoda in a Force Duel already?

Not really, it was pretty much the terrain that ended it I believe. But Yoda doesn't nearly use as much offensive powers, and certainley not killing ones. I think Sidious takes it because of this. However, would Yoda attack with the dark side, I'd say Sidious is toast....

yea but that was in like a big room with heaps of item to throw at each other, and they had lightsaber so they might have been tired.

It's a stalemate.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
It's a stalemate.

Assuming both are ROTS...

Originally posted by General Kenobl
It's a stalemate.

Why would it be a stalemate? Yoda will never kill Sidious with the force, Sidious will do anything to kill him. It'll probably go like last time....

Originally posted by kamikz
Why would it be a stalemate? Yoda will never kill Sidious with the force, Sidious will do anything to kill him. It'll probably go like last time....

Yoda was ready to kill Sidious the first time.

I think Kamikz is insinuating that it's hard to imagine Yoda just killing Sidious flat-out with the Force, considering he has no offensive powers. Which makes sense. Yoda will need stuff to throw at Sidious or he'll have to just Force push him into shit 'til Sidious dies, lol.

True, but, they are supposed to be equals, so , I assumed a stalemate.

Originally posted by jollyjim311
True, but, they are supposed to be equals, so , I assumed a stalemate.

Oh, no, don't get me wrong. They are equals. But Sidious simply has a larger variety of powers at his disposal - and he could have killed Yoda early on in the fight had he not performed the "villainous monologue"!

Originally posted by Gideon
Oh, no, don't get me wrong. They are equals. But Sidious simply has a larger variety of powers at his disposal - and he could have killed Yoda early on in the fight had he not performed the "villainous monologue"!

villainous monologue

Originally posted by Gideon
I think Kamikz is insinuating that it's hard to imagine Yoda just killing Sidious flat-out with the Force, considering he has no offensive powers. Which makes sense. Yoda will need stuff to throw at Sidious or he'll have to just Force push him into shit 'til Sidious dies, lol.


Yup...

yea but in ROTS yodas soul was weakened due to all the jedi that died....

............lol?


No, but seriousley, what? Not really, he is trained to let go, and he had an important mission ahead of him. Nothin points that it was because of this that he lost!

i read it... thats why he droped his cane and held his heart...

That was when the dark side grew stronger, jedi hadn't even died at that point.

Also, there is no evidence that it made him lose to Sidious either, that it even was a factor during their fight...

Sidious. I'm of the opinion that he's more powerful, and as a Sith, he probably has more offensive powers available to him anyways.

Sidious wins.

Sidious since he knows more offensive force powers, other way it would be a stalemate. Also, i think that yoda is like 99% from sidious (well, the true is that he lost so i have to give him a SMALL advantage).

Sidious takes this. Even as of ROTS he's better with the Force than Yoda. For example, look at the amount of effort it took Yoda to toss a single Senate Pod at Sidious and compare it to the fact that Sidious can send many of them flying up dozens of feet before sending them crashing down with very little effort. Overall they may be equals (I'd actually give it to Yoda in a full on fight) but Sidious takes it in any Force Battle.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Sidious takes this. Even as of ROTS he's better with the Force than Yoda. For example, look at the amount of effort it took Yoda to toss a single Senate Pod at Sidious and compare it to the fact that Sidious can send many of them flying up dozens of feet before sending them crashing down with very little effort. Overall they may be equals (I'd actually give it to Yoda in a full on fight) but Sidious takes it in any Force Battle.

He's NOt better in the force. They are COMPLETE EQUALS as GL states in the ROTS commentary. And you're not understanding the physics of the entire pod throwing scene. Sidious lifted the pods to a certain degree and threw them down. Yoda CAUGHT one at FULL Speed and threw it BACK UP. Don't tell me what Sidious did was more impressive.

Originally posted by kamhal
Sidious since he knows more offensive force powers, other way it would be a stalemate. Also, i think that yoda is like 99% from sidious (well, the true is that he lost so i have to give him a SMALL advantage). says the fool who keeps bitching at me to quit saying vader is 95% of ROTS sidious whom ROTJ sidious is much stronger and where as vader is stated to be 80% of rotj sidious.

One word to you my friend : Hypocrite

and don't forget the look in Palpatines and Yodas eyes when the lightning where flashing at that point yoda was actually winning but for crying out loud we all knew that Yoda had to lose, but take the scene again rewrite the future and Yoda would win

Originally posted by Utrigita
and don't forget the look in Palpatines and Yodas eyes when the lightning where flashing at that point yoda was actually winning but for crying out loud we all knew that Yoda had to lose, but take the scene again rewrite the future and Yoda would win

That's funny. Because I also saw Sidious laughing and Yoda grimacing in pain.

(They're equals. Yoda was unable to nail Sidious with that lightning ball - he only managed to push it directly in between them, and that is when it detonated and blew them both away)

Yoda can't fight him. Both are dead.

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Yoda can't fight him. Both are dead.

Eh?

That makes no sense... if Yoda "can't fight him", then only Yoda would be dead.

But, in either case, you're very much wrong. Sidious definately has the advantage in Force combat (though not necessarily "more powerful" - take note), due to his wider variety of assaults and access to offensive techniques.

But Yoda's defense is amazing and, if prepared, he can handle Sidious's lightning (though not without difficulty). Yoda can definately fight Sidious, as I seem to recall him blasting the dark lord across the room and making the normally (over)confident Sidious reconsider a duel.

Originally posted by Gideon
I think Kamikz is insinuating that it's hard to imagine Yoda just killing Sidious flat-out with the Force, considering he has no offensive powers. Which makes sense. Yoda will need stuff to throw at Sidious or he'll have to just Force push him into shit 'til Sidious dies, lol.

This is not true. Yoda utilizes his defense as an offense. EG: Throwing Sidious' lightning back into him.

No, as Gideon said, Yoda only pushes the lightning between them, or at least that's what happens. It is by no means better for Yoda, since the result is as damaging for both of them, only that Yoda will fly further....

and thats only due to his weight anyways..
they are perfect equals in the force..sidious is on the offensive, while yoda on the defence..

Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
This is not true. Yoda utilizes his defense as an offense. EG: Throwing Sidious' lightning back into him.

You make it sound as if Yoda managed to pull that stunt off all the time. He didn't. Sidious used Force lightning three times during the fight - and Yoda managed to only block it once. The first time, it knocked him unconscious; the second time, it knocked his lightsaber from his hand.

The correct statement is that a prepared Yoda can block Sidious's lightning. But, will Sidious let that happen? We know he fights smarter than Yoda - using underhanded tactics and manipulates the environment to his advantage. As well, for how long? We know that Yoda can't block the lightning forever, and when the output is strong enough, he is shown to be in considerable pain to do so.

Yoda's "utiziling defense as an offense" does not give him greater access to offensive Force powers. That technique is dependant solely on Sidious's own powers.

I'm not saying Yoda will lose. He and Sidious are equals, but Sidious has the advantage.

Originally posted by Gideon
You make it sound as if Yoda managed to pull that stunt off all the time. He didn't. Sidious used Force lightning three times during the fight - and Yoda managed to only block it once. The first time, it knocked him unconscious; the second time, it knocked his lightsaber from his hand.

The correct statement is that a prepared Yoda can block Sidious's lightning. But, will Sidious let that happen? We know he fights smarter than Yoda - using underhanded tactics and manipulates the environment to his advantage. As well, for how long? We know that Yoda can't block the lightning forever, and when the output is strong enough, he is shown to be in considerable pain to do so.

Yoda's "utiziling defense as an offense" does not give him greater access to offensive Force powers. That technique is dependant solely on Sidious's own powers.

I'm not saying Yoda will lose. He and Sidious are equals, but Sidious has the advantage.

Not to sound disrespectful Gideon but when I see that scene I correctly as you say see yoda in pain but after that I see sidious in even greater pain from the lightning (look at his face) at the point where the camera zooms in, his head goes back in pain (just my analyse)

Originally posted by MadMel
and thats only due to his weight anyways..
they are perfect equals in the force..sidious is on the offensive, while yoda on the defence..


Uh, yeah so? What if it's weight, what's Yoda gonna do? Get an extra 40kg weight to match Sids?

Originally posted by Utrigita
Not to sound disrespectful Gideon but when I see that scene I correctly as you say see yoda in pain but after that I see sidious in even greater pain from the lightning (look at his face) at the point where the camera zooms in, his head goes back in pain (just my analyse)

I'd interpret that as "fear", not pain. Considering there's no reason for Sidious to be in pain. Yoda's the one who is grappling with Force lightning barehanded - it makes sense that it's going to cause massive amounts of pain. Sidious is generating the lightning (and this is before the "energy ball" detonates), so there's no reason for him to experience any physical discomfort other than fear (I doubt duking it out with Yoda was high on his "things-to-do" or "things I wanna do before I die" lists).

And you're not being disrespectful.

Originally posted by Gideon
You make it sound as if Yoda managed to pull that stunt off all the time. He didn't. Sidious used Force lightning three times during the fight - and Yoda managed to only block it once. The first time, it knocked him unconscious; the second time, it knocked his lightsaber from his hand.

The correct statement is that a prepared Yoda can block Sidious's lightning. But, will Sidious let that happen? We know he fights smarter than Yoda - using underhanded tactics and manipulates the environment to his advantage. As well, for how long? We know that Yoda can't block the lightning forever, and when the output is strong enough, he is shown to be in considerable pain to do so.

Yoda's "utiziling defense as an offense" does not give him greater access to offensive Force powers. That technique is dependant solely on Sidious's own powers.

I'm not saying Yoda will lose. He and Sidious are equals, but Sidious has the advantage.

Your point? Yoda had the power to throw Sidious violently into his office chair. May I remind you Sidious lost his lightsaber to Yoda as well. Yoda seemed to be growing irritated and threw the Lightning back in his face. Are you insinuating Yoda can only do it once? I find this humorous.

He fights smarter? How so? They stalemated. Yes, Sidious throwing pods downwards towards Yoda was quite a nimble and tactical maneuver, but Sidious seems unable to take what he dishes out. Yoda managed to spin a single pod and throw it back upwards towards Sidious and it had him running like a school girl looking for her glasses.

Sidious also cannot deliver Lightning forever. Even so, Yoda managed to throw it back into Sidious' face (Even if it was at his own expense).

That's an outrageous statement. Sidious doesn't have the advantage just because he has "Offensive powers". Anakin was offensive compared to Obi-Wans defensive tactics. Who burnt, lost two legs and an arm? They cancel each other out which is why they stalemate. A powerful defense can easily step to a powerful offense. Yoda proved this.

It looks like we'll be sitting here all day if you want to go that route. "Yoda had the power to throw Sidious violently into his office chair." You're right, and he did so after he recovered from being knocked unconscious by Sidious in the first place. I would like to point out that Palpatine could have very easily killed Yoda right then and there - but chose to gloat instead. And then I'd also like to point out that Sidious immediately recovered from that.

Not exactly an "awe-inspiring" power, right there, Seraphim.



Sidious lost his lightsaber to Yoda? When was this confirmed, exactly? I don't recall this being shown in the movie or confirmed in the novelization. For all you know, he put it away and opted for a long range assault. Unless you're suggesting that a completely defenseless Sidious managed to evade Yoda for long enough to put that much distance between him and Yoda.

And, no. I'm not saying Yoda can only do it once. I said he was only prepared to do it once. One out of three. That's not good.



Lmao. Sidious's tactics are vastly superior to Yoda's. He manipulates the environment and puts distance between him and his attacker. According to you, Sidious was disarmed, so that means he managed to evade Yoda from close quarters combat and put a vast amount of distance in between himself and Yoda before Yoda could kill him. He also has no problem using "underhanded" and "surprise" tactics. He disabled Yoda into unconsciousness at the beginning of the fight. He also controlled the fight insofar as the environment, and switched it from the relatively isolated Chancellor's office to the massive Rotunda.

As for Sidious and Yoda in the pods, need I also remind you that Sidious - at that point - wasn't even taking the fight seriously? He spent his entire time just laughing at Yoda, and the pod was more than half way there when he opened his eyes to acknowledge it. Then he spun away.



Wrong. Yoda did not "throw the lightning back into Sidious's face". Sidious was blasting Yoda with lightning, who managed to block it with his hands. But Sidious kept forcing Yoda back, who was grimacing in pain. The lightning collected into an energy ball at the tips of Yoda's hands. Yoda finally overcame the pain and pushed the energy ball directly in between them. He did not hit Sidious at all.

Really. If it hit "Sidious in his face", then it would've knocked only Sidious away.



Is this beyond your comprehension? Your example with Anakin is beyond ridiculous. I didn't say that Sidious's Force powers will determine the outcome - I said that he has an advantage because his range of Force powers exceeds Yoda's own. Anakin went completely berserk on Obi-Wan, and didn't use Force powers except for once, and all they did was a Force push, which is not a dark side Force power.

Yoda's Force skills are equal to Sidious's, but Sidious has more power to bring to this fight - and Sidious's tactics are obviously superior. I'm not saying that Sidious will win, because I - too - think that this was a stalemate.

But if you're going to come with these poorly constructed arguments, then we'll just agree to disagree, because you don't know what you're talking about.

Eh escape you forgot to mention that Sidious had the "Oh shit i'm screwed" look at his face when Yoda turned around and said F*** it.

I mostly agree with your points Gideon, but about the lightning issue, you're incorrect.

You're claiming that the energy ball just exploded directly in between them, right? Well I for one 100% disagree with that, and the scene backs me up on this. The thing is, at the end of the exchange when the explosion occurs, the lightning moves far too quickly for anyone here to actually claim to see where the ball ends up before it explodes, so we have to analyse exactly what happens just before the explosion, and see what is indicated. You have to do that too Gideon, simply making baseless claims isn't good enough.

Now during the lightning exchange, both Yoda and Sidious go through a transition. Yoda goes from a position of almost being overpowered (at the beginning of the lightning exchange; he was slowly being pushed back, and slowly losing his balance) to a position where he gains some good footing, retains his balance and finally gets some control over the lightning (this is at the point where he puts on his mean face, and happens shortly before the explosion). Sidious goes through the opposite; at the beginning of the exchange, he has enough control over the lightning to be able to move towards Yoda, and slowly begin to overpower him, however once Yoda finally gains control, he starts to be slightly pushed back, and starts losing control. So basically, just before the explosion, which happens far too quickly for us to see where the energy ball ends up, Yoda starts to gain control over the lightning, and Sidious starts losing control over it. Agreed? Well from this point, 3 things could have happened:

1. Yoda could have gotten hit by the energy ball, however this clearly makes no sense, as for that to happen, Yoda would have had to lose control, and we can clearly see Yoda starting to actually finally gain control over the lightning directly before the explosion, so this is wrong.

2. The ball of lightning exploded directly in between them, your option, however this is clearly wrong, as both would have had to lose control at the exact same time for it to happen, yet we see Yoda finally gaining control directly before the explosion, so this is wrong

3. Sidious was hit by the ball of lightning. This makes perfect sense, as we can quite clearly see Yoda finally gaining control over the lightning, and Sidious finally losing control over it, directly before the explosion occurred, and thus can determine that Sidious was finally overpowered, and got hit by the lightning. Yoda simply fell back because of the shock waves generated by the energy ball hitting Sidious.

Actually no, Gideon is right, the lightning does not hit Sidious whatsoever in the struggle. If you look at the picture I've provided you'll notice the lightning ball explodes in between Sidious and Yoda, it does not hit Sidious. What happened here is akin to the force push battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan except on a much larger scale of power. The ball exploded because of the two equal amounts of "pressure" being applied on each side of it, causing a kind of cancellation effect with a huge shock wave that knocked both contestants back. This moment was to show that Yoda and Sidious were indeed equal in terms of force power, but due to Sidious' superior position inside the pod, and Yoda's position on the edge of the pod, coupled with Yoda's much smaller body, caused Yoda to be thrown back further then Sidious, and thus effectively getting TKO'd. However, the main point to realise here was that no one won this force exchange, but no one lost either. The blast was caused from too much pressure being applied to it on each side equally, thus making it explode between them, Yoda however, was again at a disadvantage, and Sidious, again, had superior footing. (making him a better fighter as he takes advantage of whats around him and uses it to his advantage)

Heres the Screen Caps.

Actually no, Escape is right, the lightning does not hit Sidious whatsoever in the struggle. If you look at the picture I've provided you'll notice the lightning ball explodes in between Sidious and Yoda, it does not hit Sidious. What happened here is akin to the force push battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan except on a much larger scale of power. The ball exploded because of the two equal amounts of "pressure" being applied on each side of it, causing a kind of cancellation effect with a huge shock wave that knocked both contestants back. This moment was to show that Yoda and Sidious were indeed equal in terms of force power, but due to Sidious' superior position inside the pod, and Yoda's position on the edge of the pod, coupled with Yoda's much smaller body, caused Yoda to be thrown back further then Sidious, and thus effectively getting TKO'd. However, the main point to realise here was that no one won this force exchange, but no one lost either. The blast was caused from too much pressure being applied to it on each side equally, thus making it explode between them, Yoda however, was again at a disadvantage, and Sidious, again, had superior footing. (making him a better fighter as he takes advantage of whats around him and uses it to his advantage)

Heres the Screen Caps.

1. I don't even know why you're posting screencaps, as the final exchange happened far too quickly for anyone to claim to see exactly what just happened.

2. You would only be correct if they were both applying the same amount of pressure, however given that Yoda had superior control over the lightning directly before the explosion, you're incorrect.

Umm, no, if you had eyes you could clearly tell that the lighting was in-between them. It really doesn't happen that fast, not even in the slightest, as a matter of fact the picture SHOWS the lighting between them, and then it explodes between them. And Yoda didn't have superior control of the lighting, he merely was equalling out Sidious' own power, because before that point Sidious was out muscling him, Yoda then applied more pressure, and equalled it, causing the explosion. But as I said, Sidious is smarter and better as using his environment, and thus he was again in a superior position, and won the fight by a technicality.

And he's a link. If you cant see what happens, then you're simply too slow or not paying enough attention to whats happening. Which isnt my fault. you can even see a GAP in between Sidious and the lighting before it explodes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsSkrgqrCgc&mode=related&search=

Here take a look again. Pretty obvious in still pictures isnt it?

Originally posted by allfg
1. I don't even know why you're posting screencaps, as the final exchange happened far too quickly for anyone to claim to see exactly what just happened.
LOL!!!!!You have to be the dumbest human being on this forum, if not in existence. He is POSTING SCREENCAPS BECAUSE THE ACTUAL MOVING SCENE ITSELF IS TOO FAST FOR US TO ANALYZE.. What a dumbass.



The pressure was equal dipshit, that's why they both went flying. Someone hasn't learned physics yet.

Nebaris, as a token of good faith, I'm not going to start off my flinging insults at you or giving you my affectionate nickname. I'm going to try to have a mature debate with you, though previous attempts have been futile; but in order for that to happen, your excuses need to stop.

The Anomaly provided the screencaps of the "energy duel". Now, you can sit here and claim that the scene happened to quickly for anyone to see - but the camera doesn't lie. The energy ball never touches Sidious. At the first part of it, the ball of energy forms on Yoda's hands, as that is where the lightning is stopping.

Yoda is in a considerable amount of pain from keeping the energy at bay. Sidious is laughing. This pisses Yoda off, and he pushes the energy ball forward. But the lightning never touches Sidious.

Edit: DS, as for the "I'm screwed" look, I don't doubt it. Sidious was obviously afraid of Yoda. But that isn't equal or greater than physical pain. Yoda was the one getting hurt. Sidious was just afraid.

Escape, what you need to understand is, even though Sidious was enjoying himself while throwing those pods, Yoda stopped one of his at the very last second. When he threw it back up, Sidious had MORE than enough time to stop something that was headed UP at him, but he couldn't. We've had this argument before and I think this is the first time I bring up this point.

I actually disagree with that. Sidious didn't even seem to care until it was like half way to hitting him. Had he not been so cocky (and well...Sith like) he would have cared that Yoda had caught the pod and was hurling it back at him. Sidious is laughing at Yoda like an idiot, while Yoda is taking his sweet time getting ready to throw it back, and then he does, at which point Sidious is STILL laughing, and then gives a look of "Oh...oops". That doesn't mean he couldn't have thrown it back, it just means he wasn't paying enough attention to care because he was in one of his self absorbed moments of glee. He then was thrown back into reality when the pod was more then half way there to hitting him, at which point it was too late to attempt to stop it. Had he been paying attention he would have been able to stop it, or at least enter a battle over control of the pod. But he didn't because he's a Sith and is arrogant, and sometimes stupid.

Nice arguments Anomally!

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Escape, what you need to understand is, even though Sidious was enjoying himself while throwing those pods, Yoda stopped one of his at the very last second. When he threw it back up, Sidious had MORE than enough time to stop something that was headed UP at him, but he couldn't. We've had this argument before and I think this is the first time I bring up this point.

Pardon the skepticism, but Sidious has the power to throw three pods up in the air - in direct defiance with gravity - and then toss them down at Yoda, but lacks the power to stop a pod from coming to him from a lower position?

Sorry. That makes no sense.

Originally posted by Gideon
Pardon the skepticism, but Sidious has the power to throw three pods up in the air - in direct defiance with gravity - and then toss them down at Yoda, but lacks the power to stop a pod from coming to him from a lower position?

Sorry. That makes no sense.

We've argued about how high he picked those pods up and threw them down, and how Yoda stopped a full speed pod at the very last second, and threw it back up. Even though Sidious DID see it half way, he had ample time to stop it, considering Yoda stopped it at the very last second, when it was what, a few inches from him?

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
We've argued about how high he picked those pods up and threw them down, and how Yoda stopped a full speed pod at the very last second, and threw it back up. Even though Sidious DID see it half way, he had ample time to stop it, considering Yoda stopped it at the very last second, when it was what, a few inches from him?

We've argued about this fight dozens of times. No one can sit here and say Yoda's feat is superior to Sidious's, nor can it be argued otherwise. Sidious tossed three in the air, in direct defiance with gravity, with out any strain or effort. Yoda, like it or not, had immense difficulty stopping a single pod and tossing it back. But, we also have to take into consideration that, indeed, Yoda had to stop the pod at full speed. That is impressive, but not enough to make me think for a second that Yoda's feat is more impressive.

Likewise, your point makes no sense for two reasons:

Reason A: Sidious managed to toss three pods in direct defiance with gravity effortlessly. Your assertion that he couldn't stop one that was being tossed from an inferior position (which is easier than stopping one from coming down - basically, it would require less power and less effort than it took Yoda to stop his) contradicts that, and isn't valid.

Reason B: Considering how it'd take less effort than it took Yoda to stop a pod, it would contradict the "equals!" setting, and put Yoda as a more powerful Force user, which he isn't.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
We've argued about how high he picked those pods up and threw them down, and how Yoda stopped a full speed pod at the very last second, and threw it back up. Even though Sidious DID see it half way, he had ample time to stop it, considering Yoda stopped it at the very last second, when it was what, a few inches from him?

There is a difference though, as Yoda had put considerable force into launching the pod at Sids, where Sids was basically just dropping them on Yoda and applying no added pressure. So all Yoda had to do was stop gravity, Sidious would have had to equal Yoda's Force force (lol) to stop it, which is considerably more difficult. (as we saw with the lightning duel). Either way, I think Sidious just decided it was pointless to attempt to try and stop the pod even if he could have, I think he decided he'd rather just casually step out of the way (which he did) and engage Yoda in a duel which he felt more inclined that he could win, a la force lightning (as its his specialty). So heres the possibilities:

1) Sidious was laughing like a fool and was too late to attempt to equal Yoda's force power behind the pod by the time he decided to care that it was being hurled at his face. (which was admittedly a bad move by Sidious in the first place to not be paying attention)

2) Sidious decided he'd rather not duel Yoda over control of the pod and duel him in something which he felt more comfortable at winning, namely, force lighting.

It makes no sense to say that Sidious, in no way had the power to fight Yoda over control of the pod, as he clearly does have that power. So its either the fact that he didn't care and opted out for something more in his favour (which would be a typical Sidious move) or it was his mistake at not paying attention and not caring what Yoda was doing. But it makes no sense to say that he, in no way ever, could have stopped that pod.

Originally posted by Gideon
We've argued about this fight dozens of times. No one can sit here and say Yoda's feat is superior to Sidious's, nor can it be argued otherwise. Sidious tossed three in the air, in direct defiance with gravity, with out any strain or effort. Yoda, like it or not, had immense difficulty stopping a single pod and tossing it back. But, we also have to take into consideration that, indeed, Yoda had to stop the pod at full speed. That is impressive, but not enough to make me think for a second that Yoda's feat is more impressive.
I didn't say Yoda's feat is more impressive.


If I was arguing the fact that Yoda's feat was more impressive, possibly. I just don't see how you can compare stationary objects to one coming at him at full speed. Lets assume for argument's sake that the distance that Sidious lifted those pods in defiance of gravity, is equal to the distance that Yoda shot his pod up at Sidious. You're not looking at two identical things because Sidious is picking up 3 stationary pods in defiance of gravity, and chucking them down, whereas Yoda throws a pod at him at full speed, also in defiance of gravity. So I don't see the distinction unless of course 1 full speed pod in defiance of gravity=3 stationary pods in defiance of gravity.

Sorry, I cant stay to argue. I gotta go to work...hang

OK, I hadn't seen the screen caps before I posted, so conceded, but really, it doesn't make sense. Yoda had just started to gain his composure and a handle on the lightning, and Sidious was already losing control, and seeing as Yoda was already putting more pressure on the energy ball than Sidious was (it was moving away from Yoda and towards Sidious, thus a higher push coming from Yoda), there's no reason to suggest that Sidious was suddenly able to match the pressure Yoda was putting on the energy ball, but whatever.

Originally posted by Gideon
It looks like we'll be sitting here all day if you want to go that route. "Yoda had the power to throw Sidious violently into his office chair." You're right, and he did so after he recovered from being knocked unconscious by Sidious in the first place. I would like to point out that Palpatine could have very easily killed Yoda right then and there - but chose to gloat instead. And then I'd also like to point out that Sidious immediately recovered from that.

Not exactly an "awe-inspiring" power, right there, Seraphim.

We could, but, I honestly don't think Sidious could have just killed Yoda or he would've. It was obvious he was aware of Yoda's power, being why he hauled ass and decided to attempt to run out of his own office.

Yeah, all day is right.





Actually, in the novelisation, Yoda doesn't lose his lightsaber. It mentions him CUTTING THE WIRING in the service vent during his escape with his Lightsaber. And the whereabouts of Sidious' lightsaber is unknown. I don't know when he loses it.



Prepared to do it once? If you played by your logic, because he did it once and it's expendable to say he can only do it once, it's easy to say because he displayed himself doing it, he can do it several times and whenever he pleases.





Is this why he couldn't defeat him?



And Yoda managed to squash his manipulation of the enviroment by throwing his own tactic back in his face.




You sit here and you mention nothing but how Sidious perpetually disabled Yoda while ignoring the fact that Yoda had Sidious running after he forced pushed him and that their Lightsaber fighting was a stalemate and same with the force.

Sidious was disarmed. You see his Lightsaber anywhere.



This display of bias is getting overwhelming. Him laughing isn't proof he wasn't taking it seriously. Sidious is insane, might I remind you. Dooku was smiling and being a smartass during his fight with Anakin. I guess he lost because he wasn't taking it seriously.

So, Sidious wasn't being aware? Or did he just realize that Yoda was in for the game as well? And I wouldn't be taking shit seriously if I was chucking pods downwards at someone either.





Is this why Sidious flew back? Have you seen the movie? He was holding the energy in front of him and Yoda basically released his absorbsion and the lightning virtually exploded, so to say. It knocked Sidious back and Yoda flew back as yell. Yoda just flew back farther because he obviously weighs less.



Figure of speech, partner.





How do you know his range of powers exceeds Yodas? What is this? Seriously? Just because he showed more skill? That's like saying Mace sucks at the force because he barely expresses it's usage. You're arguing out of ignorance. A Force push is a neutral power and they both stalemated. Besides, Anakin obviously could not surpass Obi Wan, as skilled as he was.



Okay, they're equal, but Sidious has more power? How? You call my arguments poorly constructed? You're slinging claims around like a cracked out hyena and you're not even backing them up.

Try again, please.



Then we share something in common.


Oh and to Anomaly's claim that the lightning didn't touch Sidious:

The tiny Jedi held one pod with the Force and sent it back to Sidious, who avoided it and retaliated by hurling Force lightning at him so intense that it knocked Yoda's lightsaber from his hand. Again finding himself attacked with great intensity, Yoda used the same method to overcome the attack: he turned his enemy's weapon's against him. The Jedi Master reflected the Force lightning back to Sidious in a blast so powerful that it pushed the two masters apart. But while this may have saved Yoda's life, it cost him his last chance of obliterating the Sith. He fell down to the holding office while Palpatine held on to the pod they were on.



I guess Palpatine was holding onto the pod because he slipped.

If this is the best that you can do, then don't bother replying. What you "think" doesn't matter. Sidious knocked Yoda unconscious. Period. The end. If he took Yoda seriously at that point (emphasis on "at that point", he would have killed him. Period.

It was obvious that he didn't want to fight Yoda after he made the mistake of not killing him when he had the chance. Your point is moot.



No, lmao, it won't. Because if you're going to debate as poorly as you are doing now, you and I will just agree to disagree, and I'll ignore you. You'd best think a bit harder if you want to debate with me.



Further observation leads me to speculate that you are arguing out of ignorance. I never said that Yoda's disarming was confirmed in the novelization - I said that Sidious's wasn't. In either case, Yoda was shown to be disarmed in the movies (which is the highest form of canon outside of Lucas's own word), which means that it happened.

And, correction: You don't know if Sidious loses it. Because it was not confirmed in either the novelization or in the movie.



Better yet, I'll use your logic and say that if Yoda could have done it earlier, he would have.

But, I'm not an ignorant debater, so we'll take the circumstances into situation. Yoda was unable to block and repel Sidious's lightning because he wasn't prepared to do so (which is his own fault). Hence why I said that only a prepared Yoda can feasibly block Sidious's lightning.



It was a stalemate due to the circumstances of the fight, but if you need further clarification, Yoda was the one who ultimately fled, and it was Sidious who went on to rule the galaxy for twenty years. Lmao. Don't play this game with me, 'cuz you're gonna lose.



Lmao, and you accuse me of bias. Yoda "squashed" nothing and didn't throw "anything" back in Sidious's face. Double standards?



Wrong. Sidious knocked Yoda unconscious, and decided to gloat about his victory over the Jedi. But, like it or not, he was well in a position to kill Yoda at that point - who was busy taking a bit of a nap. At that point, Sidious wasn't taking Yoda seriously at all. Period. However, when Yoda recovered, it was then that Sidious's self-confidence began to dwindle, and he opted to flee instead of fight. Which is pretty smart, given that both of them are equals and he could have potentially died in that fight. Yoda had nothing to lose. Sidious did.



Prove he was disarmed. Prove that he didn't simply put it away and opt for a long range fight.

See, the problem with your theory is that when we last saw Sidious with his lightsaber - he was in the middle of close quarters combat with Yoda on that podium. Assuming he lost his lightsaber would mean that Sidious was unarmed in arm's reach of Yoda - who still had his lightsaber, and according to you, Yoda can handle Sidious's lightning pretty handily.

Explain how an unarmed Sidious with no advantages over Yoda managed to evade Yoda in close quarters combat and put that much distance between himself and Yoda to get to the pods.



Sidious is insane? Oh, I disagree. I doubt someone insane (isn't insanity the absence of rationalization?) could meticulously plot his rise to power for several decades (and then succeed). People say the same thing about Hitler, when the truth is, he was not "legally" insane - but actually a very rational person. At least, before and during most of the war. People call him insane because of what he attempted to accomplish.

Anyways, as for Dooku, no. At several points in his fight with Anakin, there's nothing to say that he was taking it seriously. He firmly believed he had the upper hand. It is only when he realized that Anakin's raw power surpassed his that he began to worry. But, of course, by that time, it was far too late.



You see Sidious with his eyes closed, laughing into his hand after he threw the pods. How can he be aware of what's happening when he's laughing his ass off with his eyes closed.



Do you suffer from retardation, my friend? You didn't read or comprehend what I said. Sidious was not hit by the ball of lightning. That's all I said. The collected ball of energy was much closer to Yoda than it was to Sidious at the start of the fight, as it collected due to Yoda's blocking. When Yoda "put on his mean face", he managed to push the energy directly in between them - but couldn't get it any farther and that is when the energy detonated.

I never said that Yoda "flew back farther" because he was less powerful. He just weighed less.



What the hell is this? Broke Back Mountain? I'm not your partner.



Lmao. He has more "range" because he's a dark side user. Meaning he has access to all of the "neutral" Force powers and then some. Yoda? Just the standard Force attacks. Comprehension is beyond you, isn't it?

Wow. You have no damn clue what you're talking about. "Anakin obviously could not surpass Obi-Wan, skilled as he was". Which is why they were both knocked back. Neither of them overcame the other in that little Force fight.



"Has more power to bring to the fight" - meaning he has a wider range of powers. Jesus. They should make IQ tests mandatory for access to KMC. I never said that Sidious "is more powerful".



I think you need to take your own advice, Dr. Phil.



Not really. From what I've seen, we don't have anything in common. You're pretty smart, but being smart =/= being a good debater. You're not a good debater. Watch some other people debate, and then when you think you've got a good argument, we'll talk. Otherwise, just don't bring this subject up anymore. You see, the way you're going, the less imput you give - the smarter you appear.



Lmao. This is from Wookipedia. Wookipedia is not a source. Your point is completely invalid and his still stands.

Don't bother replying. It'll be ignored.

Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
Oh and to Anomaly's claim that the lightning didn't touch Sidious:

The tiny Jedi held one pod with the Force and sent it back to Sidious, who avoided it and retaliated by hurling Force lightning at him so intense that it knocked Yoda's lightsaber from his hand. Again finding himself attacked with great intensity, Yoda used the same method to overcome the attack: he turned his enemy's weapon's against him. The Jedi Master reflected the Force lightning back to Sidious in a blast so powerful that it pushed the two masters apart. But while this may have saved Yoda's life, it cost him his last chance of obliterating the Sith. He fell down to the holding office while Palpatine held on to the pod they were on.



I guess Palpatine was holding onto the pod because he slipped.

Good Ol' Wikipedia/Wookiepedia sources, they're such high canon that none can dispute them.

Seriously, you'd better come up with something other then a (Wookie)Wikipedia source when screen caps FROM THE MOVIE (meaning the actual..ya know...Star Wars movie) say completely the opposite.

Good argument escape. Except if you use the clarification of Sidious walking away from the fight and ruling the galaxy for 20 years, I can respond with "Well Yoda got away and trained the most powerful force user ever, who ended the Emperor". Doesn't really matter, thought I would add that for no apparent reason, but good rebuttal.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Good argument escape. Except if you use the clarification of Sidious walking away from the fight and ruling the galaxy for 20 years, I can respond with "Well Yoda got away and trained the most powerful force user ever, who ended the Emperor". Doesn't really matter, thought I would add that for no apparent reason, but good rebuttal.

Haha, humm...intresting point. I never thought of that before.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Good argument escape. Except if you use the clarification of Sidious walking away from the fight and ruling the galaxy for 20 years, I can respond with "Well Yoda got away and trained the most powerful force user ever, who ended the Emperor". Doesn't really matter, thought I would add that for no apparent reason, but good rebuttal.

I appreciate the praise; however, don't get on this line of thought. Yoda's actions indirectly brought an end to the Empire, Darth Sexy. Because, if you'd like, I could just as easily say that Palpatine's legacy outlived Luke and his family, and his predecessor and Empire are back in control of the galaxy, dominating once more.

I thought I'd add that in for no apparent reason. It's just best that you stop this line of thought.

Originally posted by Gideon
I appreciate the praise; however, don't get on this line of thought. Yoda's actions indirectly brought an end to the Empire, Darth Sexy. Because, if you'd like, I could just as easily say that Palpatine's legacy outlived Luke and his family, and his predecessor and Empire are back in control of the galaxy, dominating once more.

I thought I'd add that in for no apparent reason. It's just best that you stop this line of thought.

Yet at the same time, Luke's lineage and legacy will outlive the new "sith" and the new empire, as it always should be.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Good Ol' Wikipedia/Wookiepedia sources, they're such high canon that none can dispute them.

Seriously, you'd better come up with something other then a (Wookie)Wikipedia source when screen caps FROM THE MOVIE (meaning the actual..ya know...Star Wars movie) say completely the opposite.

Are you outrageously ignorant? Did you not see Sidious hanging onto the pod? So, did he slip, or not?

The lightning blast hit him. It shows him flying back and it shows Yoda flying back. Snap into reality.

Gideon, until you agree to respond to my argument, I won't reply because I don't think it's fair that you're entitled to share your opinion and then walk away without the care to review mine. That's selfish and ignorant.

Originally posted by Seraphim XIII
Gideon, until you agree to respond to my argument, I won't reply because I don't think it's fair that you're entitled to share your opinion and then walk away without the care to review mine. That's selfish and ignorant.

And I don't think it's fair that you waste my time with your poorly constructed arguments in defense of your pathetic opinion. You don't have any clue as to debate properly; you cite "Wookipedia" as a source and expect it to hold weight (it doesn't). You demonstrate poor use of logic (ie: "I don't think Sidious could have killed him, otherwise he would've" - WTF?) and then have the nerve to call me "ignorant".

Here's the bottom line: you calling me ignorant doesn't make me ignorant. As we've shown here, you can't trump any of my points, but I can trump all of yours, hence why everyone is agreeing with me and not you.

Now, take some time to think of an eloquent response and I'll listen to it. But if it's going to be anything like the meaningless crap that you've posted prior, don't bother, because it's too damn stupid for me to waste my time dealing with. I have standards for people I debate. If they're just going to flaunt their repetitive and unsupported opinion at me from here 'til the end of time, they're not worth it.

Edit:



You are the incarnation of stupidity; The Anamoly isn't saying that "the energy ball" didn't hit Sidious - he's saying that Yoda didn't "throw the energy" back in Sidious's face. The damn thing detonated and hit them both, and knocked them both back. But Yoda didn't hit Sidious with the lightning itself.

How can someone be intelligent and so completely inept at debating at the same time?

(this is a rhetorical question, just so you know)

Originally posted by Gideon
And I don't think it's fair that you waste my time with your poorly constructed arguments in defense of your pathetic opinion. You don't have any clue as to debate properly; you cite "Wookipedia" as a source and expect it to hold weight (it doesn't). You demonstrate poor use of logic (ie: "I don't think Sidious could have killed him, otherwise he would've" - WTF?) and then have the nerve to call me "ignorant".

Here's the bottom line: you calling me ignorant doesn't make me ignorant. As we've shown here, you can't trump any of my points, but I can trump all of yours, hence why everyone is agreeing with me and not you.

Now, take some time to think of an eloquent response and I'll listen to it. But if it's going to be anything like the meaningless crap that you've posted prior, don't bother, because it's too damn stupid for me to waste my time dealing with. I have standards for people I debate. If they're just going to flaunt their repetitive and unsupported opinion at me from here 'til the end of time, they're not worth it.

Petty and meaningless insults.

How about this: Just to completely embarass you because you've decided to act like a child towards me by merely attempting to degrade my debating skills, I'm going to point out every example of Logical fallacy I can find in your previous argument while I retort your points. This will amuse me and make you look more like a fool (If that's possible) at the same time.





It detonated? Yoda expanded his absorption and released the lightning. There was no detonation.

You're the epitome of stupidity. Get over it.

Lmao, you're going to "embarrass me" and effectively argue my points? You'll pardon my skepticism; your rebuttles on here haven't left any indication that you can do either, much less them both. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I'd also ask for you to provide proof that Yoda "expanded the absorption and released the lightning", but it'll fall on deaf ears - providing proof is a talent that isn't in your arsenal. In any case, I'd make sure that this awesome rebuttle is eloquent and logical, because as I said before, if it's anything like your previous posts, then you won't get a response from me.

Some things just aren't worth my time, and you'll come to understand that.

Good luck.

Ad Hominem, Logical Fallacy. An attempt to degrade my argument with usage of derogatory terminology. The argument should end right now because of that. ROFL! Let's continue!

Appeal to force, Logical Fallacy. Lack of evidence as well.

You do you just because you say something, doesn't mean it just goes because you said it, right? Sidious did not kill him so too bad. May I remind you how Sidious turned tail and ran like a wimp after Yoda replied to his bolt of Lightning?

Sidious not killing Yoda at that point was arrogance and stupidity. It was also a bad move because it would've saved him a fight he obviously did not want (Running out of the office like a b*tch, whoops) and he would not have had to exert himself.

It was obvious that he didn't want to fight Yoda after he made the mistake of not killing him when he had the chance. Your point is moot.

quote:
Yeah, all day is right.





Don't talk about my debating skills when you couldn't debate your way out of a paper bag, Gideon. You think sitting back and insulting me will save your arguments from getting retorted into oblivion? Not quite. Move on, partner.





No one said that YOU said his disarming was confirmed in the novel. Who's being ignorant? We don't know whether Sidious did get disarmed or not. It says that he does in the final draft of the script yet we do not see it in the movies or in the novel so we'll leave it open.



This is true. I think it is best to stick with what we both think on this issue or it will perpetuate non-stop.



Why would he have to? He was defending himself against his attack and might not have been close enough to have an opportunity. You don't know these things. You basically implied that because he only did it once, he only COULD do it once. I could easily utilize that logic and say he can do it while balancing on a bamboo stick and juggling potatoes AND whenever he wants.



Yes, you are. Unfortunately.




Your point? It was a surprise attack in the Office. He just sprung it up on him. Notice the shocked look on Yoda's face as the torrent ripped through the air and then knocked him down? Yeah, just like Sidious didn't expect the push. They pretty much even out in most catagories, but you seem to have a relentless bias to Sidious, stating he is just a bit more powerful, and why is he? You fail to mention, out of IGNORANCE, making you an ignorant debater.

Keep on denying it. it doesn't matter AT ALL.




Sidious tried to flee too. Yoda fell over two hundred feet from a pod and he's over eight hundred years old. You'd flee too.

Do not fail to forget who tried to flee at the beginning of the fight. Hell, Sidious didn't even try to stick around. At least Yoda managed to stop Sidious. Rofl.

And I won't lose. Try me.





^ Arguing out of ignorance, Logical Fallacy. Yoda squashed Sidious' attempts to hit him with pods, halted his attempts to strike him with lightning and stepped up to his parallel skill in Lightsaber dueling.





Wow, you're just a bloody fanboy! Good for Sidious, he had the chance to kill Yoda after surprising him. Oooooh! He did not, making him an idiot. He "opted to flee" because he became aware of Yodas power and didn't want to stick around and play. For all you know, Sidious might had thought Yoda was injured or was going to be unconcious for a longer period of time, given the look of dread on his face when Yoda forcefully pushed him into his office chair. Your theory on how Sidious was merely gloating doesn't make it true. You lucas, or what?



I can't. Like I said, it's not confirmed that he did or did not.

Prove that he didn't drop it. And no, I'm not asking you to prove a negative nor is the burden no longer on me. Positive mutuality, so prove it!

You can't either.



WTF? Yoda and Sidious were dueling, and it cut to Anakin/Kenobi, then it showed Sidious throwing pods. We'll never know. Don't show any more bias to Sidious that you already have.





Evade? See? You have biased theories that don't even exist or stand ground. For all you know, Yoda was pushing Sidious back in Lightsaber combat (Which could be logically plausible due to the fact Yoda and Mace are reportedly equals in LS combat and Mace dominated Sidious) so Sidious decided to find other means to defeat Yoda. That sounds quite plausible to me.



Yes, someone insane could plot like that. Most extremely intelligent people that are evil are actually insane, especially considering he was cackling while hanging onto a pod which seperated him from a nasty two hundred foot drop. Hitler and Sidious are two different entities. Your analogy does not apply. More bad debating.



He was still displaying cockiness during the fight. Smiling occasionally and the coy attitude. Dooku was cocky and he displayed it in that fight. I never disagreed that he believed he had the upper hand.

Exactly. My points still stand; He wasn't being aware and he realized Yoda was game.




Yoda basically forced all of his energy outwards and it was too powerful for both of them. He converted his absorption into an attack. Sidious got to hang on because he weighs less.



I agree!



Stfu. You're a damn fool.




Prove it! Stop being such an ignorant fool! You're not providing any evidence for these ridiculous claims of yours. Yoda can use neutral powers too; Push, pull, force run, whatever! There are some LS powers Sidious cannot use and there are some DS powers Yoda cannot use.

DROP YOUR BIAS OR STOP DEBATING!



Who said anyone overcame anybody in the force fight? Jesus! I said Anakin could not surpass Obi Wan. Do you not pick up? Are you missing too many brain cells, or what?

At the end of the fight, Anakin had no legs and he was missing an arm. Obi Wan walked away. Get it yet?

quote:
Okay, they're equal, but Sidious has more power? How? You call my arguments poorly constructed? You're slinging claims around like a cracked out hyena and you're not even backing them up.





Omfg, you damn retard. Prove your shit or stop talking. That's all. I've already retorted this. Read above.




Why thank you!






You too hold a fair amount of knowledge and intelligence but don't sit here and degrade my debating skills when yours are shoddy, to say the least.

I'm not out to look smart. I do not hold care for what others think of me. Sorry to dissapoint you, Gideon.





It's not a source? Then what is it, My testicles? Sidious was not hanging onto the pod and he was not knocked back? It's quite accurate, really.



Like I care.

Originally posted by Gideon
Lmao, you're going to "embarrass me" and effectively argue my points? You'll pardon my skepticism; your rebuttles on here haven't left any indication that you can do either, much less them both. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I'd also ask for you to provide proof that Yoda "expanded the absorption and released the lightning", but it'll fall on deaf ears - providing proof is a talent that isn't in your arsenal. In any case, I'd make sure that this awesome rebuttle is eloquent and logical, because as I said before, if it's anything like your previous posts, then you won't get a response from me.

Some things just aren't worth my time, and you'll come to understand that.

Good luck.


Boring and meaningless semantics again. Read above, basically.

That's all.

I'm not retorting your childish claims because we'll go back and forth forever.

Placing Latin phrases in your rebuttle doesn't improve your debating skills, Seraphim, but feel free to use them. I understand that they can make people feel intelligent.



It's funny; did I say that Sidious killed him? No. I said that Sidious could have killed him - that he was in a position to kill Yoda and did not take it out of arrogance. Nor am I attempting to justify that inept decision on Sidious's part, as it nearly did him in. But, the point remains, much as you try to deny it, Sidious was in a position to kill Yoda. Period.



Is there a point you're trying to make? Indeed, Sidious's decision to gloat was a very regrettable one and it served to nearly kill him in the end, and Sidious is far from being the bravest person in the galaxy. I believe he was completely justified in attempting to flee. He had just achieved the goals he had waited decades to fulfill and he was now in a position where his life was in grave danger - and he didn't have any prior control over the outcome.



My point is not moot, because my point was never that Sidious didn't make a mistake. My point was that Sidious was in a position where he could have easily killed Yoda, which you attempted to refute. Concluding, your point is moot.



You do understand that that witty remark makes no sense, don't you? How could one debate one's self out of a wet paper bag?



You claimed that Sidious was disarmed, Seraphim. Need I provide the quote where you made that stupid assertion?



And that will be a point you've conceded. My, I'm doing well for an "ignorant debater" who couldn't "debate his way out of a wet paper bag".



Implications can be misread, Seraphim; but, since you lack the ability to comprehend things, I'll clarify it for you. Yoda was only able to deflect the lightning once during the course of the fight. I never said that he was incapable of doing it more than once. I did say that Yoda would "have to be prepared" to do it again. Because if Sidious doesn't "give warning" or if Yoda doesn't have the time to prepare a defense - he won't be able to withstand the lightning. Which happened twice during the course of the duel.



Riiiiiiiiiiiight.



Sprung it up on him? I disagree. Sidious lifted his arms quite slowly at the end of that monologue with his whole "now you will experience the full power of the dark side!" rants. Yoda's surprise could be credited to the fact that he went into the fight cocky as well, which would underline his claim in AotC that even the "older, more experienced" Jedi fall victim to their egos.

Secondly, where have I claimed that Sidious is a bit more powerful? That would defy my whole cry that the "two are equals" and that I can't say "who would win", wouldn't it?



You're a confused person, aren't you?



Sidious attempted to flee because he was deeply afraid of the risk on his life. Yoda had no such fears; he fled because he couldn't win. Or does that not sink in? Given that Yoda had the strength and the speed to flee the Rotunda after his fight with Sidious doesn't seem to strike me that he was terribly wounded.



Again, are you trying to make a point?



Incoming Newsflash: I am, and you are.



Right. So, Sidious "squashed" Yoda's attempt to hit him with a pod, halted Yoda's attempts to kill him with a lightsaber, stepped up to his parallel skill in lightsaber dueling, and forced Yoda to flee? Cool. I can go with that.



Am I touching a nerve?

You denied that Sidious had the chance to kill Yoda, and yet I proved it to be so. Secondly, Sidious an idiot? Lmao. He played Yoda like a fiddle for decades, conquered the galaxy, and destroyed the Jedi Order. Pretty good for an "idiot", wouldn't you say?

And, really. Sidious saw Yoda get to his feet, you dumbass. "At last the Jedi are no more." He says that just as Yoda is getting to his feet. To which Yoda responds: "Not if anything to say about it, I have!" and then Force pushes him. So, how did Sidious expect for Yoda to be unconscious for longer?



Wow. You've conceded two points. This one, and the fact that Sidious could have killed Yoda. I'm proud of you.

The burden is on you to provide proof. You claimed Sidious lost the saber. You can't provide proof, as I've said (and you've admitted). Two sources don't show or specify the whereabouts of Sidious's lightsaber, and the third depicts an entirely different fight (as does the novelization).

However, were we to go by the movie, logical evidence supports me. Yoda and Sidious were in a lightsaber lock when the fight switched to Anakin vs. Obi-Wan. When the fight resumed, Sidious was already on the other side of the Rotunda, and Yoda was just leaping from the podium.

So, I find it hard to believe that an "unarmed" Sidious put that much distance between himself and an armed Yoda - especially when they were just in close quarters combat.



Logical deduction supports me, not you. And, Sidious fanboy? Odd, given that I said he and Yoda "were equals", and that I couldn't comment as to who would win.



It does, does it? Well, here's the problem.

Mace is the master of Vaapad, a lightsaber form that specializes itself against dark side practitioners. It essentially turns the power of the darkness "into a weapon of the light". Yoda has not mastered that form, nor does he use it. Sidious was able to kill all of Mace's friends while Mace was still there - and he outfought Kit while simultaneously fighting Mace. In fact, Sidious killed Mace's entourage, and then pushed him back into the main office. Only when Mace was entrenched in Vaapad did he overcome Sidious.

Yoda doesn't have talent with Vaapad, hence why he was not shown to beat Sidious in lightsaber combat, nor was he dominating him.



Or, could it be that he was laughing at Yoda's predicament? I suppose you never thought of that.



You don't have a point, do you? Dooku was only cocky when he was confident that he had the upper hand against Anakin. But he wasn't cocky when Anakin and Obi-Wan were pushing him back across the General's Quarters, or when Anakin delivered the final onslaught that led to his demise.

(I'll continue your second rebuttle)

I didn't deny that. Sidious was immersed in his ego at that point.



Yoda "forced" the collected energy to move directly in between them, and that is when it exploded. You have yet to prove that Yoda was the one who caused the explosion, given that it was to his detriment.



Cool.



What's a matter? Run out of witty (lol) comebacks?



You still have no idea what you're talking about, do you? I'm not arguing their overall scope of power. I'm talking about their power in the pretense of a fight. Sidious has more handy powers to use in a fight than Yoda does. Hence why we only saw Yoda use neutral powers, and why we saw Sidious use neutral and offensive.



Then you don't have a point. My point in bringing it up was that Anakin and Obi-Wan experienced a similar situation, where they both attempted to overpower the other with the Force and both of them were knocked away. As for lightsaber skill, Anakin already did surpass Obi-Wan.



And that is due to Anakin's ego, not lack of power. Get it yet?



Wow. I have touched a nerve.



Yeah. Witty comebacks are limited to you, aren't they?



Riiight.



Lmao. You only disappointed me by even replying.



Wookipedia is not a canon source. Period. It can be edited by anybody. It isn't the movies, novels, Lucas, or what have you. Meaning you can't use it.

And, no, Wookipedia isn't your testicles. Quite the contrary, because you see, Wookipedia is actually pretty big.

Anyways, your testicles aside (let's focus on big subjects, here), you did better than I thought. Much better. But, still, you need some eloquent time to think. Seriously, don't respond 'til you've made sure you've thought everything out, 'cuz I'm not going to respond to anything anymore tonight.

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/pwned-18345.jpg

ok back on the topic...

hello, im new here and i woud like to say hello to everybody.

And Sidious takes this just barely

Hey, welcome!

"Failed I have" Isn't Sidous strong as Yoda?

They are equals, but i would say Yoda is a better swordsman, while Sidious has better Force powers, it really depends on a location.
If Yoda can force a lightsaber fight in close quarters he has a better chance of wining, but in a place like the Senate, Sidious has a better chance.
Something has always bothered me, when Sidious throws the last pood and Yoda catches it and slowly turns it around, to throw it back to Sidious, why doest he do something, he is just standing there looking stupid. He had time to throw more poods, or do something, but no he is just standing there laughing.