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Team Light vs Team Dark
Mace, Obi, Yoda vs Anakin, Dooku and Sidious

No Rules (no interference by clones though)

Team light with only yoda left standing though

I'd say that Mace beats Sidious again, Yoda takes down Dooku, and Obi-Wan holds out against Anakin the whole time.

The Jedi can win.

I'd say Sidious takes out Mace with the help of the force, Anakin and Obi fights a pretty decently long battle and Dooku stalls Yoda until Sidious is done with Mace, then he helps the sith to win.

Though that is only if the fight goes that way....

Or Dooku WTFpwns Obi-Wan again and assists his teammates with their kills.

WTF is wrong with this Dooku pwns Ken0bi attitude!!!111 Talk about anti-fanboyism and ignorance! Except it'll take Dooku at the bare minimum at least a minute (definitely more) to kill Kenobi.

Reasons:

1.) Darth Tyrannus is one of the most arrogant Sith Lords in existence. He confidently believes he is Yoda's greater and decides to toy around with every opponent, because he thinks he can easily parry his opponent's foolhardy attacks and kill them anytime he wants to. He will do this to Obi-Wan, seeing how he already pwned him before with a yawn.

Kenobi is very intelligent in his fights. He will utilize this weakness, playing on with Dooku, and when he starts to lose his grip, will then switch from an offensive/defensive medium to his Soresu mastery. His skill with the Force will help him. Kenobi, even though surviving an explosion and facing a beating from Durge, was able to lift and push an entire starfighter towards him with extremely minimal effort (Clone Wars: When They Were Brothers). He will use some offensive Force attacks to try to eliminate Dooku. This will not grant him victory, but the overall effect buys him huge time.


2.) When Dooku realizes that his pathetic opponent “might ” actually possess a chance against his highness, he will proceed to go all out. He will use Makashi mastery to try to overwhelm Kenobi, however Obi-Wan’s Soresu mastery cannot be penetrated that easily. Thus, Dooku will use his trump card: Force/Lightsaber Combos. With some masterful combo, he will then defeat Kenobi.

The problem? By this time, Mace will probably be done with Anakin Skywalker, using his Vapaad against Ani’s anger and his Shatterpoint skill. OR Mace will be already be done with Skywalker and then aid Kenobi to pwn Dooku’s crinkly balls.

Overall point: Dooku cannot WTFpwn Kenobi, because that's what Jango did to Coleman. I would say Obi-Wan dies at the bare minimum of one minute, and at the maximum of three. This seems quite plausible.

Mace and Yoda can definitely finish one of their opponents...Obi-wan vs. Anakin would be the worst matchup for Anakin and enough time for Mace to potentially finish dooku...

Tough match, honestly

Great, the Kenobi vs. Dooku debate reincarnates again. Well time to use my Kenobi debating skillz to defend good ol' Obi-Wan....

Dooku takes out Kenobi, fast. Meanwhile, Anakin holds off Yoda. Then, Dooku joines him and togetehr they take down Yoda. By that time, Sidious has kileld Mace.

Dark Side wins.

So much for reading darth. Why don't you go back and read what I wrote on this. Gosh....



Anakin is not going to last for 2 minutes on Yoda. How the hell will Dooku save him?



Right, except why the hell would Yoda go for Anakin and Mace for Sidious?



Huh, wrong. It's the Light Side that prevails.

Originally posted by General Kenobl
Great, the Kenobi vs. Dooku debate reincarnates again. Well time to use my Kenobi debating skillz to defend good ol' Obi-Wan....

Well, you'd better put those supposed "skillz" to better use. I was rolling on the floor laughing at that mess you typed up.

As I said...this all depends on who fights who. If Mace or Yoda fight Anakin, he's out, but so's Obi-wan...Mace could take Dooku, so could Yoda...but Obi-wan's done there, unless he fights Anakin, whom he could hold off...

1.) Rolling on the floor laughing => ROFL

2.) I never said I was good at debating for Kenobi, others said so.

3.) You find a problem with it? Then argue, I'll fight back. I'm not going to fvcking accept that Dooku WTFpwns Kenobi's ass. That's stupidity...

1. Oh, another obvious clue pointed out by Detective Dip. I'm sorry if I didn't feel like typing the acronym, I started realizing that it lessens the value of such when you want to insult someone's post.

2. Your post implied otherwise, you shouldn't always believe what other people say, seeing as half of the forum kisses ass.

3. Yes, I have a problem with it. Didn't I already suggest as much? And of course, I'm never the type not to respond to people who think they've proved something. I'll get to it later, though. Toodles.

Good job freaking out Officer Obvious!



That's cool, think whatever you like, I don't give a shit.



Ok, w/e. Alaikum Salaam.

Hey. Didn't we already have this discussion?

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/431022_2-anakin-rots-and-obi-wan-rots-vs-darth-maul-and-count-dooku

Ah, the memories. They flow back like water in times like these.



Anti-fanboyism? That's not even a bad thing, you dolt. As a matter of fact, it's one of the greatest qualities one could possess on these types of forums.



Talking about fanboyism.

In all seriousness, Obi-Wan hasn't displayed anything in terms of the Force to even contend with Count Dooku, especially on other Force using beings. We have several demonstrations on Count Dooku's dominance over said beings, but Obi-Wan's résumé seems to be severely lacking.

By the way, how can the "bare minimum" be sixty seconds, but it's definitely going to be more according to you? That's a contradiction in itself.



What you fail to consider is that Obi-Wan's tactics were also at use during that point, and Count Dooku would thusly know what Obi-Wan was doing, so what reasons would he have to dilly-dally around if he already knows that Obi-Wan's lightsaber abilities aren't going to be so easily overcame?

That is, if we're operating under the premise that the combatants had fought each other previously (as that's what you seem to be suggesting).



According to the RotS novelization, he already tried this, and it was twenty seconds into the fight if you correlate to what the novel says to the movie (this isn't disregarding the ten seconds of dialogue that happened in between, by the way). As soon as Count Dooku comes to the realization that his attacks are being negated by Obi-Wan's Soresu (and that he might be beaten), he Force pushes him halfway across the room.

Now, the difference here would be that Count Dooku doesn't actually need to worry about another opponent, whereas at the time, he was desperate, and had to relieve Kenobi of combat as soon as possible, so I see no reason as to why Count Dooku wouldn't just repeat his actions in RotS to take out Obi-Wan, or some other devastating technique that he possesses.



What "skill" are you referring to? The "skill" that had him gliding across the floor by "the slightest whipcrack of power"? Or were you talking about the "skill" that got him flung around like a monkey flings shit? If you take a direct comparison of power, you'd find that Obi-Wan is the inferior by a large margin. We know that in Star Wars, this usually means their defenses won't serve much use (because he can break them by superior force). Likewise, their offensive arsenal wouldn't be so injurious.


Originally posted by Advent
See the following:

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/7819/mundibarge2sui5.th.jpg

If Mundi, who was never renowned for his strength in the force (not to say he wasn't strong; just for the record), could do this while being injured (he had broken his arm prior; albeit healed it a little) and definitely drained of strength, I really don't see what's so impressive about it. Even in regards to Count Dooku considering he would curbstomp Ki-Adi in the force.

^Just like Kenobi.

Now, as for the actual feat, I'd like to question how much Obi-Wan even moved the craft. I mean, it's not as if you've really placed the feat into context, or at least, in specific (i.e. against Count Dooku's power), but just for the sake of arguing.

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2218/telekenobi2bio9.th.png
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4213/telekenobi3cmp2.th.png

For reference, the shrouded figure with a red circle around him is Obi-Wan Kenobi, just in case anyone might miss that.

You should notice that he moves the starfighter a few yards at most. It becomes considerably less impressive because of such, and also since Ki-Adi-Mundi replicated the feat to a higher degree. But, regardless, how is that going to save him? He's dealing with an opponent who's prowess in the Force surpasses his own by a large measure.

We could bring my marvelous packet of feats into the equation, but then again, this is a match, and not feat wars. What's Obi-Wan going to do to Count Dooku? Lift a fighter craft three feet? Oh yeah, he's "skilled" when likened to Count Dooku. :gay smiley:

We've seen the effects of Count Dooku lightning when used on Sora Bulq, who is no weak shit himself, and it knocked it him unconscious. Additionally, we've seen him bring down Asajj Ventress, writhing in pain, with a tap of his finger. And then, of course, "with the slightest whipcrack of that power" he threw Obi-Wan across the way, and then later made the scene where he takes out Obi-Wan look like it was generated using ragdoll physics, FFS!



Didn't you say Obi-Wan was intelligent?

I laughed out loud at this, and the following statement you made. I'd like to see Obi-Wan do jack shit with the Force. I doubt he'd be able to make one Force push before getting suffocated to death. If you are playing on what character's typically do (as you assume Count Dooku will "toy" with Obi-Wan), then I'd tell you that Obi-Wan isn't known to use the Force against far stronger opponents.

Even if we were to assume he does attempt a Force push (his only offensive power), why wouldn't Count Dooku counterattack, and begin beating him like a redheaded step child? We know he can; the same cannot be said for Obi-Wan.



So basically, despite the fact that Obi-Wan's Force prowess pales in comparison, you would have him attempt to launch a Force push on an immensely more powerful opponent, and then claim that its effect will buy him a "huge" (not decent) amount of time? Oh, yeah, if we stripped Count Dooku of his Force powers, and then contained him in some type of contraption that would immobilize him it'd work. Otherwise, even if I were to presuppose that by some stroke of luck Obi-Wan hit him, he'd get right back up, and kick the ever living shit out of Kenobi.

I love how noobs would assert one thing as being "****ing ridiculous", but when it comes down to their own arguments, they're ****ing ridiculous.



Yes, and we saw exactly what happened in that situation, except this time, Count Dooku won't be hard pressed to utilize the Force. If he goes all out, it'll take less than twenty seconds to kill Kenobi. And that's being generous.



Exactly, and he can do such in a short amount of time. I don't see where you can even come up with a "Kenobi lasts for x minutes!", and hope that anyone will believe some random figure you tossed out is accurate.

Your assumption is that Obi-Wan "Got Pwned" Kenobi will be feigning his form for a considerable amount of time, and somehow hold off Darth Tyranus with the Force (lmao). That's not correct by a long shot. If Obi-Wan kept up his ploy for more than what he did, I see no reason for Count Dooku not to put him on his ass a la Attack of the Clones.



In the Force? Yes, he can. Easily, as well. In an overall battle like this, of course he can't decimate him in two seconds, because Obi-Wan is a brilliant lightsaber master, but that won't contain Count Dooku for long given the two of them already went all out, and Obi-Wan got dropped like he was hot.

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2531/obigetspwnedme3.gif



In an alternate universe, perhaps, but for the rest of the world that lives in reality, yet still debates on fantasy, it seems probable that Obi-Wan won't last more than a forty seconds, and that's being extremely kind, because: a) there's no reason for Obi-Wan to keep up his trick for that much longer than he did originally, b) Count Dooku can take him out with the Force in a short amount of time, and c) their fight in RotS lasted fifty seconds, and that was with Anakin backing him up (and including the twenty plus seconds of dialogue, and time Obi-Wan was out of the fight).

My wife. :wub:

My slave :whip:

WAZZUUUUPPPP!



........................ Did I interrupt something?

Dooku pwnd Kenobi in the film quickly. There's no reason why he wouldn't do so again. Unless he toyed with him.

Dooku will take Kenobi out in under a minute, like he did in the film. Then he goes and saves Anakin. And whether or not Anakin could last two minutes or not against Yoda is debatable.

Fine. By this time Sidious has killed Yoda, and Dooiku has saved Anakin from Mace. You happy?

yoda can kill sidious

And Sidious can kill Yoda. They're equals

This fight is extremely tough and depends on the first one winning the upper hand, what means the if some of the team kill a member of the other first, they get a huge advantage...

greivous and plo kill them all lol......

Good match. I think the sith have this.
Sidious = Yoda
Dooku = Mace
Anakin > Obi-Wan
Therefore once Anakin beats Obi-Wan he can then help Dooku beat Mace and then they will all easily destroy Yoda. Of course this is only one of many scenarios.

For Advent (instead of typing "Originally posted by"



But I felt that I failed during that mission, I need to attempt this argument again.







Well in the hands of Nebaris, you do get some crazy anti shit...



Hey now, just because I am one of the only few people who doesn't believe Dooku can WTFpwn Kenobi doesn't allow you to go all Ad Hominem on me .....



How so? Dooku is very impressive among all Force wielders. By putting any PT character (other than Sidious, Yoda, and Mace) against Tyrannus won't make them look good.



What the hell? I said that at the very least, Dooku kills Kenobi in 60 seconds. However, I said that it'll likely be a higher number than that.



The novelization points out that Dooku doesn't even think to consider that Anakin and Obi-Wan might have mastered different forms or have grown stronger in the use of the lightsaber until the duo finally cuts the shit. Obi-Wan knows that Dooku is his superior in the lightsaber and the Force. So what will he do? He'll go into an offensive/defensive medium (probably using either Shii-Cho or Ataru) on Dooku like in AOTC and waste some time, seeing how he'll be more skilled and all. When Kenobi gets desperate, he will then switch into his Soresu mode.



Is there a problem with this?



Well yes, because the duo decided to cut this entire weakling shit and goes for Dooku. When Dooku realizes the two "clowns" actually possess the ability to kill him, he gets desperate and throws Kenobi to the Super Battle Droids.



D'abord, Kenobi will first go AOTC on Tyrannus, and the two will play around with each other. After this, Kenobi Jumps away and switches into his Soresu style. Tyrannus will engage him in this with his toying Makashi skill and realize that the pathetic little "clown" has tricked him. During this time, if possible, Kenobi will do a Force Push or something of the sort. Now, even though it'll hardly have any effect, again it is for buying time. When Dooku decides to go all out on Obi-Wan, he’ll run over with his uber Makashi might and trump card Force and throw Obi-Wan dead (that is unless Mace saves Kenobi).



First, that "slightest whipcrack" we see in the movies doesn't equate to Dooku being >>>>>>> in the Force over Obi-Wan. Kenobi's defense made himself fly only several yards away to the other side of the stairwell.

Again, Kenobi can use the Force to buy him some time. Even though one of his Force Pushes may only knock Tyrannus like ten feet away, Obi-Wan will continue wasting time, like engaging Dooku right after a Push, etc etc.



So what? Kenobi switches into Soresu and battles Dooku's Makashi and then catches Tyrannus off guard with a Force Push, or some Force attack. It doesn't matter if he's much weaker than Dooku Force-wise, the fact is Dooku is susceptible to it and he'll be thrown some yards away.



The same Kenobi who was able to Push Grievous (who dodges Force attacks) fifty feet away and like fifty feet in the air. You are right, Obi-Wan isn't on par with Dooku Force-wise, but he'll still use it on Tyrannus...homophobe.



Did I say that Kenobi > Dooku Force-wise? HELL NO! If Dooku wanted to go all fvcking crazy on Obi-Wan right away, he could probably take out Obi-Wan in like 15 seconds. But he wouldn’t, because that's the nature of Dooku.

Part II:



Wow Officer Obvious, why don't you go back and read and find out....



Wow, this is simply retarded. Kenobi engages Dooku with Soresu and pulls of an unsuspecting Force attack, what the hell will Tyrannus do about it? OMG, #3 |>(_)|_|_5 4 |=02{3 5#13|_}!!!!1111



WTF?



How? Kenobi catches him off-guard, like how Dooku caught Kenobi off guard with the Kick-Choke-Throw, Tyrannus will be helpless against it (unless #3 |>(_)|_|_5 4 |=02{3 5#13|_}!!!!1111 ) and thus be thrown several feet away.



Once Tyrannus faces the brunt of Kenobi's Force attacks, he will proceed to go all out on Obi-Wan. But why the fvck wouldn't Kenobi take advantage of a successful attack and engage Dooku's all out Makashi. The two duel and then Tyrannus finishes off with a successful combo attack (like Kick-Choke-Throw).



OMG, what a wonderful jab Advent, you should be given the Oscar for the Best Insult......gosh you are pathetic at times.....



I concur, when Dooku goes all out, it'll take about 15-20 seconds to kill Kenobi. But seeing how arrogant Dooku is and how intelligent Kenobi is, we have to add 20 to the time amount before Tyrannus went all out.



Except it isn't Random Number Out of My Ass!!!

Time interpretation of the duel:

The AOTC Duel between Tyrannus vs. Obi-Wan lasted 38 seconds. Now seeing that Kenobi will be more intelligent and more skilled, he will probably last for about 22 seconds longer (equalling a minute) before switching to Soresu.

He then duels with Dooku, and Dooku starts to realize that this clown can "possibly" defeat him (extra time again: 15 seconds).

Kenobi launches a successfull Force Push, knocking Dooku several feet away. Obi-Wan then rushes over and attacks Tyrannus. Dooku gets up and two duel a little bit more (extra time {from Force attack}: 15 seconds).

Tyrannus has had enough of Obi-Wan and finishes him off with a combo (extra time: 10 seconds).

So taking my total number, we'll get Kenobi's chances of survival anywhere from 100 seconds to 120 seconds, or 1 minute 40 seconds to 2 minutes.



Like in AOTC, Kenobi will almost get put on his ass by Dooku but then switches to Soresu when he gets desperate and needs to try to eliminate Tyrannus.



Yes, if Dooku went all out with the Force in the beginning of the duel, Kenobi will be gone within 15-20 seconds.



I provided my time reasoning.

Anybody seen Advent??? I want to end this Obi-Wan/Dooku argument here and see whether I can prove to the forum that Kenobi cannot just get WTFpwned by Tyrannus or or whether my views will be proven wrong and that this contest is folly.

Advent like just posted...

Oh no....

Yeah, I've been absent from the forum for the past few days due to the fact that I have a life. Sorry. *rolls eyes* I'll respond to this shortly.

Kk ok!

No. Dooku can WTFpwn Obi-Wan. But due to his character flaws and arrogance, he probably won't right off the bat.

Didn't I say that in my arguments above? If Dooku went all out with the Force, he probably could take out Kenobi in 15-30 seconds using some Force/lightsaber combo. However, taking his character and Obi-Wan's intelligence and skill, it'll be a lot longer than that.

No, it wouldn't be "a lot longer".

You're dictating what Obi-Wan will do, "FORCE PUSH LOL!", "HE'LL ATTACK IN FORM Y FOR X AMOUNT OF SECONDS", "COUNT DOOKU WILL TOY WITH HIM FOR X AMOUNT OF SECONDS". This isn't a storybook versus forum, or a "Choose Your Own Adventure", son™ (trademarked since fools want to be like me).

I really don't see any reason to argue if that's the route you're going to take due to the fact I could do the exact same thing, and come up with my aforesaid time (40 seconds).

For example,

Obi-Wan uses a ploy form - 20 seconds.
Obi-Wan switches to Soresu, and Count Dooku realizes Kenobi's defenses are too strong - 15 seconds.
The duel continues, and Obi-Wan gets tossed like a ragdoll again - 5 seconds.

All in all, it's rather ridiculous. Now, don't take that as "Oh, well u can't defeat my pointz!', because that's not the case. Even for a debater of my level (I'm not trying to boast), I find myself rather dumbfounded at this type of argument. You want me to somehow address, and counter your points, but I won't be able to do so unless I impose upon the characters' actions myself.

As for some miscellaneous points.



All I can say is please don't play pseudointellectual with me, and bring that shit into this conversation. I find it rather annoying, especially when even calling one "pathetic" is, by (conversational) definition's standards, ad hominem (which would turn into double standards on your part).



No, that's not what you said. Resorting to lying will not save your "argument". It's a good thing we have an account of everything users type, otherwise I couldn't call people out on such things. For someone who's "vying for a 4.0" GPA (in your dreams, pal), you should know that "definitely" means.

definitely, adj.

Indisputable; certain, or clearly defined; explicitly precise.

By you putting "definitely more" in parentheses, that means that it will be longer than your former time of one minute. You didn't say it'll be "likely", you said "definitely". Please try not to retract on your words, because it definitely makes you look foolish. If you plan on debating with me, pick your words carefully, as when it comes to debating, I don't do such "casually".

Nice try, though.



Funny, I'm reading the novelization as we speak, and there's no mention of him believing that they hadn't grown stronger. He supposes that their forms would be more well suited against a large number of opponents.

But, that's besides the point, what you said is completely irrelevant. If we are going to assume that they've fought before, then what I said still stands, because the RotS novelization was written in terms of the present. Since we're supposing that this is the future, Count Dooku already knows that Obi-Wan mastered Soresu.



The difference here is that, among other things, he cannot keep that up for as long as you are supposing in this specific situation. You'll note that in RotS, he tries what you claim he'll do (in other words, dictate his actions) during the fight, and then switches to Soresu twenty seconds into the fight. Now, that's even less if you consider the ten seconds of dialogue that happened in between.

Now, if Kenobi wants to dawdle around he can do so. The problem herein lies is that, as we witnessed in AotC, Count Dooku may initially mess around with his opponents, but he doesn't do so forever. In this scenario, if you are saying Obi-Wan is going to be more adequate at the usage of such a form, then I see no reason as to why Dooku wouldn't eliminate him sooner than he did in AotC. We already know that he can do such whenever he pleases, Obi-Wan's not adept at using Ataru or Shii-Cho, so it really won't matter. His skill level with those forms is a joke when compared to Dooku's fencing, as even he implies in his thoughts.

Your assertion that he'll "last longer because he's more skilled" is wrong, as well, because it doesn't matter. Dooku could take out Obi-Wan if he was using anything other than his formal form of Soresu very easily.



Did I say there was? No, I don't recall me doing such, there is a problem, however, for Obi-Wan's case if we do operate under such. That would be that his tactics would be comprised because Dooku already knows that he's feigning his form, since he has witnessed this in the RotS duel.



Yes, it does, actually. Of course, that's only if you possess a brain (an organ you appear to be missing). It proves his sheer dominance over Obi-Wan. Even when using a minuscule amount of power to execute the attack, he can toss Obi-Wan halfway across the floor.



Ooh, how witty.

In all candor, that wasn't my typical type of insult where I would poke fun at eyesight, or some other sense. I was stating it as what I find idiotic. So, it wasn't meant as a direct insult.

By the way, if you're at least going to try to be cute, you should use something that actually exists instead of making something completely idiotic up. "BEST INSULT 4 OSCAR"? Really now.



Coming from you, Napoleon, I'm not really offended in the least bit, after reviewing several of our previous encounters. Seriously, Kenobl, I'm not pathetic, nor is anything I say. You know this, I know this, and the entire forum knows this.



Originally posted by Advent
I guess Shaak Ti is hot shit because she force pushed him through an entire wall! Oh, wait. No, she sucks figurative balls to Count Dooku and would also be pwned by him easily.

"Her Twi'lek Master had once explained to her that sensitivity and fine-tuning came with time. "As a Padawan," he had said, "I could push boulders around with ease, but seeds were next to impossible." (Shadow Hunter, Chp. 23)

A padawan Annon Bondara was able to move boulders around without much difficulty. So, I really don't see what's impressive about flinging a non-Force using being the length a master Kenobi did.

It's not that much of an "impressive task" given that General Grievous can't a) defend against force attacks and b) can't predict them. As Escape has already pointed out, CW Grievous =/= RotS Grievous. Furthermore, if you add to the fact that Obi-Wan and Grievous were engaged in a saberlock, and thusly deadlocked, its value as a feat becomes considerably less impressive (if we were to assume he can dodge attacks).

Isn't Yoda the last Jedi until he meet Luke in TESB?

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Isn't Yoda the last Jedi until he meet Luke in TESB?

What?

No, Yoda's not the only Jedi around until Luke, if that's what you're asking. I mean, Ben Kenobi is in ANH; although, I really haven't a clue of what you're trying to ask.

And, I just caught a slight mistake in my post:

Originally posted by Advent
That would be that his tactics would be *compromised

Fixed.

sry about the delay, i'll get to this. RL calls...

No problem, take your time, it's not as if this is Domino's. Plus, I won't be around to respond later today or tomorrow, either, anyways.