No wonder Satan despises Christ...

Philippians 2:5-11

Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

So Christ, in not seeking glory, was elevated to the status of being as God Himself--a slap in the face of Lucifer.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Satan thought himself to be as God's equal based on his qualities alone, and, in his pride, was cast down from heaven. Jesus, however, did not desire this, but he was humbled, humiliated in the form of a human. The mighty king served those over whom he was to rule. In dying on the cross, God raised him up to where Satan desired to be--as God's equal.

So Christ, in not seeking glory, was elevated to the status of being as God Himself--a slap in the face of Lucifer.

Good points. I think its also important to remember that Christ had no need to be elevated though, as he was, is, and always will be God or the great "I AM." I also think some of the main cruxes(no pun intended) of him(God) presenting himself in such a humbled fashion was to demonstrate his love for us, how practical of a God he is, the right way to live life, as well as show us there really is no need for us to be afraid of him.

Originally posted by Thundar
Good points. I think its also important to remember that Christ had no need to be elevated though, as he was, is, and always will be God or the great "I AM." I also think some of the main cruxes(no pun intended) of him(God) presenting himself in such a humbled fashion was to demonstrate his love for us, how practical of a God he is, the right way to live life, as well as show us there really is no need for us to be afraid of him.

Originally posted by Thundar
Good points. I think its also important to remember that Christ had no need to be elevated though, as he was, is, and always will be God or the great "I AM." I also think some of the main cruxes(no pun intended) of him(God) presenting himself in such a humbled fashion was to demonstrate his love for us, how practical of a God he is, the right way to live life, as well as show us there really is no need for us to be afraid of him.

Kind of passing the point by, aren't you?

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
Kind of passing the point by, aren't you?

Maybe a bit. Gotta set the record straight though..so you youngins won't get confused an understan that Jesus is the same God of the old testament.

I've almost made Regret a believer..based on that last post, for once he didn't dogmatically disagree with me..😆

Like yourself and others though, he's still a work in progress...

Regret, why don't you just give it up bro. Concede that Jesus is I AM so I can stop proselytizing for a bit...😉

EDIT: mispelling..

Originally posted by Thundar
Maybe a bit. Gotta set the record straight though..so you youngins won't get confused an understan that Jesus is the same God of the old testament.

I've almost made Regret a believer..based on that last post, for once he didn't dogmatically disagree with me..😆

Like yourself and others though, he's still a work in progress...

Regret, why don't you just give it up bro. Concede that Jesus is I AM so I can stop proselytizing for a bit...😉

EDIT: mispelling..

I'm sure you consider a "work in progress" something noble. However, I assure you it's a waste of time.

As for I AM and Jesus being the same, you are correct. At least that's what people made up about Jesus.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Satan thought himself to be as God's equal based on his qualities alone, and, in his pride, was cast down from heaven. Jesus, however, did not desire this, but he was humbled, humiliated in the form of a human. The mighty king served those over whom he was to rule. In dying on the cross, God raised him up to where Satan desired to be--as God's equal.

So Christ, in not seeking glory, was elevated to the status of being as God Himself--a slap in the face of Lucifer.

Wasn't that the destiny of Jesus though? His purpose? Hadn't Jesus and his part on earth been prophasised (or so some claim) for many years before he was even born?

I'd think that would loose some impact - this isn't some human doing good things ignorant of his destiny or his family tree or what was coming... this was Jesus whose life seems to have been mapped out a long time in advance, and who was raised up to be God's equal at pretty much the end of his sacred mission.... unless of course Jesus wasn't aware that he was going to be "God's equal" after dying on the cross.

Did Jesus go to the cross thinking (in amongst the pain):

"Well, I suffered, I was humbled and was humiliated as a human, and now I am to die, I guess I will just be another heaven bound soul"

Or would he have probably been thinking more:

"My sacred task is coming to a close, and soon the second phase will dawn, along with the fate of humanity, as I ascend to Heaven as God's right hand man."

I mean I just imagine it might be ever so slightly easier to be humble and not desire being God's equal if you actually know that is exactly what is going to happen.

And it doesn't really seem that much of a slap in the face now that I think about it. I mean it would be if both Jesus and Satan had had an equal shot to be God's equal, and Satan merely went about it the wrong way and thus lost the posistion to Jesus (who incidently also happened to be the bosses son.) Was Satan ever going to be God's equal? Apparently not, thus he had a shot at becoming so off his own back, and got burned for his troubles.

Satan hates christ because he supports God, the worst dictator of all time.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Wasn't that the destiny of Jesus though? His purpose? Hadn't Jesus and his part on earth been prophasised (or so some claim) for many years before he was even born?

However, the point is that Christ sacrificed himself not for the intent of being exalted but to save humanity. Christ knew of his exaltation, but he cared more about us than ascending to the throne.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
I'm sure you consider a "work in progress" something noble. However, I assure you it's a waste of time.

As for I AM and Jesus being the same, you are correct. At least that's what people made up about Jesus.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Satan hates christ because he supports God, the worst dictator of all time.

Originally posted by FeceMan
"Before Abraham was, I am."

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
At least that's what people made up about Jesus.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Yes.

However, the point is that Christ sacrificed himself not for the intent of being exalted but to save humanity. Christ knew of his exaltation, but he cared more about us than ascending to the throne.

Exactly, the fact he knew of exaltation in the future would mean he wouldn't need to worry about promotion for his good work in the salvation of man, and could give his full attention to being the face of Holiness.

For my example - Bob started of in a casual job, which was great, and he enjoyed it and was good worker because he loved it, but it is likely his thoughts would have turned to promotion eventually, maybe a permanent position in time. Yet at the beginning of the year he was talking to one of the guys from payroll who says he has seen the list of people due to be offered permanent positions during the mid year period - and lo Bob is one of them. He can now work happily and without concern knowing he is to be rewarded for his good work over the last couple of years and can dedicate himself fully to the job at hand.

Which is different then a person acting completely selflessly not knowing of what is in store for them, beyond terrible things towards the end of their life but doing it anyway with no thought or desire of future reward.

Originally posted by Thundar
Regret, why don't you just give it up bro. Concede that Jesus is I AM so I can stop proselytizing for a bit...😉

Is God the Father "I AM"? No, I do not believe so.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Exactly, the fact he knew of exaltation in the future would mean he wouldn't need to worry about promotion for his good work in the salvation of man, and could give his full attention to being the face of Holiness.

For my example - Bob started of in a casual job, which was great, and he enjoyed it and was good worker because he loved it, but it is likely his thoughts would have turned to promotion eventually, maybe a permanent position in time. Yet at the beginning of the year he was talking to one of the guys from payroll who says he has seen the list of people due to be offered permanent positions during the mid year period - and lo Bob is one of them. He can now work happily and without concern knowing he is to be rewarded for his good work over the last couple of years and can dedicate himself fully to the job at hand.

Which is different then a person acting completely selflessly not knowing of what is in store for them, beyond terrible things towards the end of their life but doing it anyway with no thought or desire of future reward.

Originally posted by Regret
My personal view is that if Christ fit your scenario, he would have been an unworthy offering. His entire consideration should have been only the aiding, love, of man. I believe it entirely possible Christ did not "know" what would happen afterwards, he had faith in the Father, else why the cry "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

Why the cry indeed. If that isn't one of the more hotly debated aspects of Christ who is God or Christ who isn't then I don't know what is.

And Jesus, regardless of his future, his past or whatever was human at the time. I merely commented that it would be easier for a human to be humble and unconcerned with the future if they new at the end of it all they were going to be raised up as God's equal. Why dwell on promotion and how much you deserve it if you know it is coming. But that all depends on how much Jesus exactly knew, and how privy he was to God's plans for him. The way a good many Christians talk would seem to indicate they believe Jesus was aware of what life had in store for him.

And "His entire consideration".... I don't know, it seems a bit unfair. I think it would have been more then fair if he get married, maybe have children. I certainly wouldn't hold it against him if somewhere deep inside the thought occasionally cropped up "I deserve better." Of if while he hung on the cross certain unhappy thoughts arose about the people he loved so much doing this to him. The "heroes" that impress me more are not the ones devoid of such things, but the ones who overcome them and do what they have to.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Why the cry indeed. If that isn't one of the more hotly debated aspects of Christ who is God or Christ who isn't then I don't know what is.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
And Jesus, regardless of his future, his past or whatever was human at the time. I merely commented that it would be easier for a human to be humble and unconcerned with the future if they new at the end of it all they were going to be raised up as God's equal. Why dwell on promotion and how much you deserve it if you know it is coming. But that all depends on how much Jesus exactly knew, and how privy he was to God's plans for him. The way a good many Christians talk would seem to indicate they believe Jesus was aware of what life had in store for him.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
And "His entire consideration".... I don't know, it seems a bit unfair. I think it would have been more then fair if he get married, maybe have children. I certainly wouldn't hold it against him if somewhere deep inside the thought occasionally cropped up "I deserve better." Of if while he hung on the cross certain unhappy thoughts arose about the people he loved so much doing this to him. The "heroes" that impress me more are not the ones devoid of such things, but the ones who overcome them and do what they have to.

Originally posted by Regret
But then I'm not Trinitarian in my belief, I believe in a Godhead made up of three distinct individuals, distinct in the same way that you and I are distinct.

Yes, I am clear on that.

I believe that such knowledge of his future would make his sacrifice a mockery of suffering, not some grand and noble act. Such knowledge might make Anne Rice's portrayal of Christ in "Memnoch" possibly accurate, imo, and I hated the Christ she portrayed.

Which is exactly what I am getting at - if Jesus did in fact have his life and death mapped out and was aware of it then it would be much easier to be self sacrificing and unconcerned with the future.

Nothing in the Bible states whether he did or did not get married or have children, the stance on such is based in traditions, not in evidence at hand. I believe he did what he had to do, the Jews didn't like his message so they convinced the Romans he was claiming to be "king", and the Romans crucified him.

I know, I was just postulating that the big selling point of Jesus was the fact he was human, and as such I could accept some human things, especially things he might have thought.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Exactly, the fact he knew of exaltation in the future would mean he wouldn't need to worry about promotion for his good work in the salvation of man, and could give his full attention to being the face of Holiness.

For my example - Bob started of in a casual job, which was great, and he enjoyed it and was good worker because he loved it, but it is likely his thoughts would have turned to promotion eventually, maybe a permanent position in time. Yet at the beginning of the year he was talking to one of the guys from payroll who says he has seen the list of people due to be offered permanent positions during the mid year period - and lo Bob is one of them. He can now work happily and without concern knowing he is to be rewarded for his good work over the last couple of years and can dedicate himself fully to the job at hand.

Which is different then a person acting completely selflessly not knowing of what is in store for them, beyond terrible things towards the end of their life but doing it anyway with no thought or desire of future reward.

Originally posted by FeceMan
And what if Christ wasn't thinking about "promotion" in the first place?

If he already knew why think about it at all? He had a divine task of love, when it was finished he would be in heaven as God's equal. It takes away the need to ponder what the future had in store.

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I know, I was just postulating that the big selling point of Jesus was the fact he was human, and as such I could accept some human things, especially things he might have thought.

Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
If he already knew why think about it at all? He had a divine task of love, when it was finished he would be in heaven as God's equal. It takes away the need to ponder what the future had in store.