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This exchange got me thinking:

Originally posted by Regret Originally posted by Thundar
Yup, and remember the same scriptures used to tempt Christ, were the same scriptures used to get Satan's sons(the Pharisees) to justify calling Christ himself a demon.
The pharisees were not the sons of Satan They were individuals like yourself. They were men that interpreted the scriptures narrowly and always believed they were correct. They believed they knew what the scriptures said concerning God being only one, and so Christ existing made him two, so they talked the Romans into believing he claimed to be "King", they vicariously killed him because they were right in their interpretation. They thought they had the spirit of God aiding them in their interpretation and study, they believed they were saved and that they did not need prophets to guide them, they believed that everything that God would say to man had already been said, those that offered a different interpretation were obviously of the Devil ... sounds disturbingly like the attitude adopted by mainstream Christianity to me.


Current mainstream Christianity would have killed Christ as well.

Does anyone else see similarities between the Pharisees and mainstream Christianity? Anyone else think that if Christ came now, in a similar manner, that mainstream Christianity would have a similar opinion of Christ as his old world detractors?

Well isn't it said in the Book of Revelations that he would not be recognized by most of his followers when he returns?

Originally posted by Regret
Does anyone else see similarities between the Pharisees and mainstream Christianity? Anyone else think that if Christ came now, in a similar manner, that mainstream Christianity would have a similar opinion of Christ as his old world detractors?

Certainly.

I thought that Jesus would return and convert everyone to Islam.

Jesus didn't convert anyone. People founded a religion based on his teachings.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I thought that Jesus would return and convert everyone to Islam.

Originally posted by Regret
This exchange got me thinking:


The pharisees were not the sons of Satan They were individuals like yourself. They were men that interpreted the scriptures narrowly and always believed they were correct. They believed they knew what the scriptures said concerning God being only one, and so Christ existing made him two, so they talked the Romans into believing he claimed to be "King", they vicariously killed him because they were right in their interpretation. They thought they had the spirit of God aiding them in their interpretation and study, they believed they were saved and that they did not need prophets to guide them, they believed that everything that God would say to man had already been said, those that offered a different interpretation were obviously of the Devil ... sounds disturbingly like the attitude adopted by mainstream Christianity to me.


Current mainstream Christianity would have killed Christ as well.

In a way, yes. I've contemplated this for years. However, it would depend on how biblically sound Christ's teachings were. If he started saying things such as that there was no such thing as sin, that all humans were basically good, etc., then I myself would deny him.

Thats funny. I was unaware that Christ's teachings were so similar to the OT. Is the NT just superfelous then?

Originally posted by Alliance
Thats funny. I was unaware that Christ's teachings were so similar to the OT. Is the NT just superfelous then?
You're going to have to clarify, 'cause I'm not sure at what you're getting.

What I've always loved about revelation is that it seems like there is no way to tell the difference between the AntiChrist and Christ until its too late.

Originally posted by FeceMan
In a way, yes. I've contemplated this for years. However, it would depend on how biblically sound Christ's teachings were. If he started saying things such as that there was no such thing as sin, that all humans were basically good, etc., then I myself would deny him. Originally posted by Alliance
Thats funny. I was unaware that Christ's teachings were so similar to the OT. Is the NT just superfelous then?

I agree with Alliance, in a way. The Pharisees believed Christ teachings were not Biblical. The NT does/did not fit a Jewish perspective on the OT. If it were, all Jews would have become Christian. I believe the two can and do fit together, but they do not necessarily fit from everyone's perspectives, it is dependent on the interpretations used.

Thats kind of what I was getting at. Jesus obviously grounded his teaching in the OT (the "Bible" of the time if you will), but they were so radically different that later Christians felt thier holy text needed to be rewritten...hence the NT.

If there was another Christ like figure in human history and he presented a radically different picture, most Christians would not believe. If Christ2.0 taught that there was no sin, Fece wouldn't believe, as many others would not. The ones that did, would probably create a NNT and schism off from Christianity today. The NNT woudl radically redefine the NT and the OT, just as we saw with Christ with the NE and the OT.

I don't think he'd have to teach "new" things to get the Pharisee type response. Christians often believe Christ clarified the errors the Jews had with the teachings of the OT. I think if he came now, and clarified the errors existing in modern Christianity they would believe him the Antichrist for it.

Jesus and Budda will come down from heaven to battle mohhamed and they will fight to stalemate and call a truce and open up a bar on the Suset Strip

Originally posted by TRH
Jesus and Budda will come down from heaven to battle mohhamed and they will fight to stalemate and call a truce and open up a bar on the Suset Strip

Hmm . . .

*goes to make a thread*

Originally posted by Regret
This exchange got me thinking:


The pharisees were not the sons of Satan They were individuals like yourself. They were men that interpreted the scriptures narrowly and always believed they were correct. They believed they knew what the scriptures said concerning God being only one, and so Christ existing made him two, so they talked the Romans into believing he claimed to be "King", they vicariously killed him because they were right in their interpretation. They thought they had the spirit of God aiding them in their interpretation and study, they believed they were saved and that they did not need prophets to guide them, they believed that everything that God would say to man had already been said, those that offered a different interpretation were obviously of the Devil ... sounds disturbingly like the attitude adopted by mainstream Christianity to me.


Current mainstream Christianity would have killed Christ as well.

Does anyone else see similarities between the Pharisees and mainstream Christianity? Anyone else think that if Christ came now, in a similar manner, that mainstream Christianity would have a similar opinion of Christ as his old world detractors?


Was it really necessary to open up a flame thread Regret because we have a difference of philosophies? The only point you've made that is in actuality true, is the fact that one should always be open to the opinions of others, particularly since we are fallible beings.

But if you ask me, you appear to be the one acting more "pharisaical" with your current actions as opposed to myself. That being said I'll let this be my one and only post within your thread, thus with the responses that follow, you'll only continuing to provide evidence to support your position.

Originally posted by Thundar
But if you ask me, you appear to be the one acting more "pharisaical" with your current actions as opposed to myself.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e384/super_hottie_2/sock.jpg

Originally posted by Thundar
Was it really necessary to open up a flame thread Regret because we have a difference of philosophies? The only point you've made that is in actuality true, is the fact that one should always be open to the opinions of others, particularly since we are fallible beings.

But if you ask me, you appear to be the one acting more "pharisaical" with your current actions as opposed to myself. That being said I'll let this be my one and only post within your thread, thus with the responses that follow, you'll only continuing to provide evidence to support your position. My thread is not a flame thread, it is a legitimate question. I believe that many Christians behave in the exact manner that the pharisees did in the NT, as such that is the core of the discussion. Are modern mainstream Christians similar in their stance to the ancient pharisee. I posted our exchange to show where I am coming from. Do not be so quick to take offense.

Originally posted by Regret
I don't think he'd have to teach "new" things to get the Pharisee type response. Christians often believe Christ clarified the errors the Jews had with the teachings of the OT. I think if he came now, and clarified the errors existing in modern Christianity they would believe him the Antichrist for it.

Exactly. There was a reason Christ needed credibility....

Originally posted by Thundar
Was it really necessary to open up a flame thread Regret because we have a difference of philosophies? The only point you've made that is in actuality true, is the fact that one should always be open to the opinions of others, particularly since we are fallible beings.

This is not a flame thread at all. Its a brilliant point about how Christianity has become just like its opressors.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e384/super_hottie_2/sock.jpg

Originally posted by Alliance
Exactly. There was a reason Christ needed credibility....
I am unsure of what you meant there, I think I understand, but if you could elaborate it would be appreciated. Couldn't decide if I agreed or not
Originally posted by Alliance
This is not a flame thread at all. Its a brilliant point about how Christianity has become just like its opressors.

Thanks for the defense there Alliance

I have been considering this idea for a long time. The LDS religion places a lot of import on the symbolism and symmetric nature of existence. As such, I believe it possible that Christ's birth and reactions of that time will be repeated in a similar, albeit perhaps very differently appearing, manner. I believe that, even if my religion is the correct one, many of the most solid detractors from Christ at the Second coming will come from the Christians. Given this view, the question obviously would arise over time from me, Thundar merely provided a stimulus that increased the probability of it occurring now in this forum.

In response to the title of thread as interpreted in the literal way:
No, crucification is way to cruel, a gun to the head would work better. In fact crucification produces excruciating pain.

Originally posted by Regret
Thanks for the defense there Alliance

I have been considering this idea for a long time. The LDS religion places a lot of import on the symbolism and symmetric nature of existence. As such, I believe it possible that Christ's birth and reactions of that time will be repeated in a similar, albeit perhaps very differently appearing, manner. I believe that, even if my religion is the correct one, many of the most solid detractors from Christ at the Second coming will come from the Christians. Given this view, the question obviously would arise over time from me, Thundar merely provided a stimulus that increased the probability of it occurring now in this forum.

No need for thanks .

I'd like to think I'd be open to idea from anyone, but I'd have a hell of a time listening to someone who claimed he was the son of a god.

I think its a very pertinent question. Christianity, like most religions, is structured as a societal control. You can't have a control if any philosopher that comes along can influence the religion. Even the protestants found that out within decades of their reformation.

Christianity was founded on an unspeakable amount of liberalism for the time. I personally find it sad that most Christians today neglect the tradition of Christ and are consumed by the dogma created around his figure.
Originally posted by Nellinator
In response to the title of thread as interpreted in the literal way:
No, crucification is way to cruel, a gun to the head would work better. In fact crucification produces excruciating pain.
Since when has the Christian religion been concerned about cruelty to its enemies? Crucifiction has a long and storied use before Christ.

Originally posted by Alliance
No need for thanks .

I'd like to think I'd be open to idea from anyone, but I'd have a hell of a time listening to someone who claimed he was the son of a god.

I think its a very pertinent question. Christianity, like most religions, is structured as a societal control. You can't have a control if any philosopher that comes along can influence the religion. Even the protestants found that out within decades of their reformation.

Christianity was founded on an unspeakable amount of liberalism for the time. I personally find it sad that most Christians today neglect the tradition of Christ and are consumed by the dogma created around his figure. Then we are in large part agreed.

I am Christian, imo, and as such my religious beliefs are held by faith. According to the Bible, faith is a hope for things not seen. Thus, I hope that my beliefs are true. I do not "know" this, I hope it is. From this perspective I feel that it is imperative to maintain an open mind, accepting any truth as it presents itself regardless of conflict with my faith or its point of origin. In fact, truth should alter my faith or confirm it as truth reveals the nature of existence. I think this is an issue with much religion, they deny, or ignore, truth that conflicts with preconceptions.

Originally posted by Alliance
Since when has the Christian religion been concerned about cruelty to its enemies? Crucifiction has a long and storied use before Christ. Since its inception. However, not all people that profess faith in Christ follow what His teachings.

Quote from Bill Hicks:

"Why do so many Christians wear crosses around their necks? Do you think if Jesus ever comes back he wants to see another cross again?! That's kind of like walking up to Jackie with a rifle bullet around your neck, saying, 'Just thinking about John, baby, just thinking about John.'"

Take Nelson Mandela for a recent example (please note, I am NOT trying to compare Mandela to Jesus!). Mandela wanted freedom and equality for all, and he was prepared to fight for it. What happened to him? He got thrown into jail for 27 years because he was a terrorist.

Now he is eventually free, everybody agrees he is a great man and he was actually right all along - but that does not change the fact that his teachings were rejected, brought him into conflict with the establishment - and he had to pay the price for it.

If Jesus ever comes back, he will come back as a freedom fighter, the same way He came in the first place. He will reject previous teachings, even the ones based on his own, because due to human error, pride and conceit, we have changed His message over the years to suit our desires.

If Jesus comes back, he is going to come into conflict with the establishment (again), be dubbed a terrorist (again) and America will launch a world-wide war until he is eventually found and executed - FOR OUR OWN GOOD.

Jesus Christ: Freedom fighter or terrorist? It all depends on your point of view...

Ultra Conservatives certainly would if they thought it was there only way to Redemption...


A truly loving Christian would never do such a thing, they would not be so greedy and selfish as to torture and kill thier beloved, just to save themselves. A true loving Christian, heck, a true loving PERSON of any Faith, would sacrafice themselves instead of making Jesus endure that pain again.

Why should Jesus pay the penalties for my own faults ? Why should he suffer and be tortured just because I lie, insult, or rebel ?


That's absurd.


I do not ask Christ to suffer for me, I will suffer for my OWN wrongs, thank you.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Why should Jesus pay the penalties for my own faults ? Why should he suffer and be tortured just because I lie, insult, or rebel ?


That's absurd.


I do not ask Christ to suffer for me, I will suffer for my OWN wrongs, thank you.

Aye, you may indeed.




And when He comes back it's gonna be to take everybody. He ain't stickin around to be debated about.

We'll see Him, we'll leave and that will be that.

The world will continue as it does now, oblivious to Him and headed for destruction.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Aye, you may indeed.




And when He comes back it's gonna be to take everybody. He ain't stickin around to be debated about.

We'll see Him, we'll leave and that will be that.

The world will continue as it does now, oblivious to Him and headed for destruction.




You know that when all you Christians are gone chances are this earth will become a paradise...

Originally posted by Bardock42
You know that when all you Christians are gone chances are this earth will become a paradise... Mormons believe this earth does become a paradise Well, about a thousand or so years after Christ returns... But then we don't believe those Christ takes with him leave the earth either, everyone stay here, good and bad, and life goes on, just with a bit more knowledge than we have now.

Originally posted by Regret
Mormons believe this earth does become a paradise Well, about a thousand or so years after Christ returns... But then we don't believe those Christ takes with him leave the earth either, everyone stay here, good and bad, and life goes on, just with a bit more knowledge than we have now.

Sounds much more intelligent. Tell me more.

Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Ultra Conservatives certainly would if they thought it was there only way to Redemption...


A truly loving Christian would never do such a thing, they would not be so greedy and selfish as to torture and kill thier beloved, just to save themselves. A true loving Christian, heck, a true loving PERSON of any Faith, would sacrafice themselves instead of making Jesus endure that pain again.

The people who put Mandela into prison were practicing Christians, fully supported by their church and respected leaders in their community, and absolutely convinced they were doing the right thing.

The people who crucified Christ were also leaders in their community, supported by their faith and absolutely convinced they were doing the right thing.

And if Christ is ever foolish (or brave, your choice) enough to come back, he will be executed by respected leaders in their community, supported by their church and absolutely convinced they are doing the right thing.

Nothing has changed, as America has proved time, and time, and time again.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Sounds much more intelligent. Tell me more. A lot of the information on our beliefs on the subject is speculative, but here is what I believe given information at hand:

Christ comes, he is visible to the entire world in some manner (not necessarily recognized, but visible) The war that is spoken of in Revelations continues, the two prophets that arose from the dead are explained away by those that do not wish to believe it. Mormons believe that a Zion, the New Jerusalem (odd name given Jerusalem means New Salem), will be on the American continent. This New Jerusalem will be established amidst global natural disasters, wars and general unrest. Christ will reign in this city. After Christ's coming Satan is bound for one thousand years as stated in Revelations. So, for the next thousand years people will live as they will without any influence coming from Satan, thus they will completely responsible for all actions, no rationalization for having been swayed by some other entity. The resurrection occurs throughout this millennium, thus all men will live through some portion of this thousand year period. Life will go on as normal, with those not in the New Jerusalem avoiding the place due to the strict behavioral rules, thus they will call it a great and terrible place. Life goes on, at the end of the thousand years, Satan is unleashed and Armageddon occurs, following which life goes on again only now people are separated into the style of life that they have chosen, thus some will be limited in their ability to do various things, while others will have great possibility, due to the choices they have made.

Originally posted by Alliance
Jesus didn't convert anyone. People founded a religion based on his teachings.

The 12 Apostles
Mary Magdalene
And the crowds of people who follow him everywhere are not consider convertions?

Last I heard they gave their beliefs and follow Jesus teachings.

Originally posted by Regret
A lot of the information on our beliefs on the subject is speculative, but here is what I believe given information at hand:

Christ comes, he is visible to the entire world in some manner (not necessarily recognized, but visible) The war that is spoken of in Revelations continues, the two prophets that arose from the dead are explained away by those that do not wish to believe it. Mormons believe that a Zion, the New Jerusalem (odd name given Jerusalem means New Salem), will be on the American continent. This New Jerusalem will be established amidst global natural disasters, wars and general unrest. Christ will reign in this city. After Christ's coming Satan is bound for one thousand years as stated in Revelations. So, for the next thousand years people will live as they will without any influence coming from Satan, thus they will completely responsible for all actions, no rationalization for having been swayed by some other entity. The resurrection occurs throughout this millennium, thus all men will live through some portion of this thousand year period. Life will go on as normal, with those not in the New Jerusalem avoiding the place due to the strict behavioral rules, thus they will call it a great and terrible place. Life goes on, at the end of the thousand years, Satan is unleashed and Armageddon occurs, following which life goes on again only now people are separated into the style of life that they have chosen, thus some will be limited in their ability to do various things, while others will have great possibility, due to the choices they have made.

What choices are meant there?

Originally posted by Bardock42
What choices are meant there? Whatever choices impact ones eternal existence. Given my religious beliefs, I must believe that the various religious commandments aid me in avoiding behaviors that will limit me in the future. Mormons also believe any education you gain in this life will aid you in the next, so choosing to increase your knowledge and wisdom will increase your possibilities in the next as well. It is the same as the existence we know, only our moral decisions also will impact our futures.

Mormons believe in an eternal progression, including evolution from our current mortal state to an immortal Godly state if we do not overly lessen our physical and spiritual being. So behaviors that compromise our physical or spiritual forms will limit our ability to participate in various occupations, activities, etc.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
The 12 Apostles
Mary Magdalene
And the crowds of people who follow him everywhere are not consider convertions?

Last I heard they gave their beliefs and follow Jesus teachings.

There is a difference between somebody trying to convert you, and people choosing to follow you because they want to, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Dreampanther
Quote from Bill Hicks:

"Why do so many Christians wear crosses around their necks? Do you think if Jesus ever comes back he wants to see another cross again?! That's kind of like walking up to Jackie with a rifle bullet around your neck, saying, 'Just thinking about John, baby, just thinking about John.'"

Take Nelson Mandela for a recent example (please note, I am NOT trying to compare Mandela to Jesus!). Mandela wanted freedom and equality for all, and he was prepared to fight for it. What happened to him? He got thrown into jail for 27 years because he was a terrorist.

Now he is eventually free, everybody agrees he is a great man and he was actually right all along - but that does not change the fact that his teachings were rejected, brought him into conflict with the establishment - and he had to pay the price for it.

If Jesus ever comes back, he will come back as a freedom fighter, the same way He came in the first place. He will reject previous teachings, even the ones based on his own, because due to human error, pride and conceit, we have changed His message over the years to suit our desires.

If Jesus comes back, he is going to come into conflict with the establishment (again), be dubbed a terrorist (again) and America will launch a world-wide war until he is eventually found and executed - FOR OUR OWN GOOD.

Jesus Christ: Freedom fighter or terrorist? It all depends on your point of view...
Christ's problem with the Pharisees is that they didn't care about upholding the Law for their own wellbeing, devotion to teachings, or the glory of God. They cared about being seen and recognized--honored, exalted--for their faux piety.

So says....what?

So says Jesus's actions.

Jesus the character. Not the man.

Originally posted by Alliance
Jesus the character. Not the man.
Actions are indicative of character.

Originally posted by Regret

Does anyone else see similarities between the Pharisees and mainstream Christianity? Anyone else think that if Christ came now, in a similar manner, that mainstream Christianity would have a similar opinion of Christ as his old world detractors? Yes and yes. Did you ever see the movie "Judas Project"...It was set in our time with our modern day so called good doer Pharisees. Anyone who challenges the beliefs of large organizations suffers their reputation to say the least, and more. I believe if the Christ story was true, then really now, the man should be revered, and the establishment should join in on it since they are supposed to be one in thought with this wonderful person and his act/acts. But instead, they felt threatened, loss of power and face. It's like the story Jesus spoke of about the dirty cup...Clean on the outside, but filthy on the inside, or the one of boasting of good works by telling everyone how humble and godly one is by praying out loud so that everyone can here you.


Don't fool yourself, people follow after their establishment. They are told what to think, and they do it in the name of the true god.

This is not a new belief, and well, they are really second class citizens...

Originally posted by Regret
A lot of the information on our beliefs on the subject is speculative, but here is what I believe given information at hand:

Christ comes, he is visible to the entire world in some manner (not necessarily recognized, but visible) The war that is spoken of in Revelations continues, the two prophets that arose from the dead are explained away by those that do not wish to believe it. Mormons believe that a Zion, the New Jerusalem (odd name given Jerusalem means New Salem), will be on the American continent. This New Jerusalem will be established amidst global natural disasters, wars and general unrest. Christ will reign in this city. After Christ's coming Satan is bound for one thousand years as stated in Revelations. So, for the next thousand years people will live as they will without any influence coming from Satan, thus they will completely responsible for all actions, no rationalization for having been swayed by some other entity. The resurrection occurs throughout this millennium, thus all men will live through some portion of this thousand year period. Life will go on as normal, with those not in the New Jerusalem avoiding the place due to the strict behavioral rules, thus they will call it a great and terrible place. Life goes on, at the end of the thousand years, Satan is unleashed and Armageddon occurs, following which life goes on again only now people are separated into the style of life that they have chosen, thus some will be limited in their ability to do various things, while others will have great possibility, due to the choices they have made. Oh so you're eschatology view may be post or A- millennial in regards to judgment? This is also a "Christian Re-constructionist" view. Out of the main stream for sure and becoming more popular..Hmm thinks "Tex Marrs".

So then, god will reenact the eden view again by unleashing Satan on an innocent people and then what to do with them. Hell? Annihilation? What happens to freewill at this time of the Millennium?
This almost sounds like a verse quoted in Genesis "And the Earth was RE-plenished." Meaning that at sometime things were done away with and then reestablished. After the judgement all things are made new..ie a new Heavens and a new Earth..

Great thread by the way.....

Originally posted by debbiejo
Oh so you're eschatology view may be post or A- millennial in regards to judgment? This is also a "Christian Re-constructionist" view. Out of the main stream for sure and becoming more popular..Hmm thinks "Tex Marrs".

So then, god will reenact the eden view again by unleashing Satan on an innocent people and then what to do with them. Hell? Annihilation? What happens to freewill at this time of the Millennium?
This almost sounds like a verse quoted in Genesis "And the Earth was RE-plenished." Meaning that at sometime things were done away with and then reestablished. After the judgement all things are made new..ie a new Heavens and a new Earth..

Great thread by the way..... Christ comes, the resurrection occurs for everyone, but the first resurrected are those that lived most properly then the next and so on until everyone is resurrected. Thus partial judgement occurs based on your spiritual state at the beginning of Christ's millennial reign. After Armageddon, people have either placed themselves in a position of glory or they are placed in one dependant on their capacity for glory, so also a final judgement.

At the end of the millennium no one is innocent, their action will have been their own without covert influences. No death will occur through the millennium. The millennial reign of Christ is the end of life in the state we know it, following this everyone has passed into an immortal state, and we progress at a rate equivalent to the glory we attain.

Thx

Interesting........thought when Christ died the graves were opened and all that were in the graves went up. Up to where?
Could the view of resurrection mean the mind, spirit, soul? More a metaphor? Just as like the "I am in all things, even in hell"...paraphrased of course by Job.............Everywhere............the whole being of this and ones choice to it ? Not literal mind you...Or is it?

We will be at the end of the resurrection then........the end of the judgment you mean...(White Thrown Judgment) ..........Left lane or right lane you mean. Still this means that Eden is now back in play, yes? Over again yet with a whole group?

Originally posted by sithsaber408
And when He comes back it's gonna be to take everybody. He ain't stickin around to be debated about.

We'll see Him, we'll leave and that will be that.

The world will continue as it does now, oblivious to Him and headed for destruction.




If Jesus comes back, we will kill him again.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
If Jesus comes back, we will kill him again.

That commie bastard won't know what hit him . . .

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
That commie bastard won't know what hit him . . .

Yep, judging by the poll Jesus better stay in heaven if he knows what's good for him. Bugger the Antichrist, it's going to be his own followers who do him in.

And commie? I always pictured him more of a hippier kind of guy. Sandals, some tie dyed robes...

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
If Jesus comes back, we will kill him again.
Just like you will kill the prophets in the streets of Jerusalem.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Just like you will kill the prophets in the streets of Jerusalem.

Most people never bring that up. It kind of goes in the face of a lot of modern interpretations of the later days (fundamental Christians).

Originally posted by FeceMan
Just like you will kill the prophets in the streets of Jerusalem. If that happens then I swear I'll change my views....

There are some that interpret the "Two Witnesses" as the Old and new testament, the "Law" and the "Prophets" as pointing to Christ.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Just like you will kill the prophets in the streets of Jerusalem.

Is that a personal you? I used a collective we. I am fairly certain I am not Gog or Magog.

Originally posted by sithsaber408
Aye, you may indeed.



I don't imagine that I will suffer in Hell because I'm gay and a non-beleiver, do you ? That would make you God completely unreasonable...







Originally posted by sithsaber408
And when He comes back it's gonna be to take everybody. He ain't stickin around to be debated about.

We'll see Him, we'll leave and that will be that.

The world will continue as it does now, oblivious to Him and headed for destruction.







Keep telling yourself that

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Is that a personal you? I used a collective we. I am fairly certain I am not Gog or Magog.
No, it's a collective "you."

Originally posted by FeceMan
No, it's a collective "you."

Is it right a collective "you" be used? I still dislike the idea of sin being passed on because two naked simpletons got into the sacred fruit way back. The idea I, as part of a collective we, will kill prophets in the streets of Jerusalem is just a bit "well ok then" like.

If I am not involved then I am not involved. No umbrella terms for me.

Kinda like the court condemning a family for all generations because one person in 2000 BC killed someone. Great record keeping though.

Originally posted by debbiejo
Kinda like the court condemning a family for all generations because one person in 2000 BC killed someone. Great record keeping though.

It most certainly would be good record keeping. Although it also would depend on the sentence:

Judge: "We condemn you and descendants for all time! Which wont be long, since we have decided to execute you at dawn tomorrow. So in a way it's fortunate you decided to put off having kids till later in life. Well fortunate for us at least. Cuts down on the paper work."

Originally posted by Alliance
Jesus didn't convert anyone. People founded a religion based on his teachings.

people made a religon on his teahings adding in most what they thought was right

Why?

Why do people devote their life to a mythical being?
He does not exist
I can not understand it one bit, it really does confuse me.
I CANT UNDERSTAND HOW SOME ONE COULD BELEIVE ALL THIS STUPID NONSENSE.
The bible is not to be taken literally. I have nothing against Christians or any other religion. People (the majority) who beleive the bible to be fact and "the word of GOD" are just insane. Only idiots, people scared of death and people with an agenda beleive the bible to be correct on every page.

DO NOT TAKE THE BIBLE literally, IT IS A BOOK OF MORALS, A BOOK ON HOW TO LIVE A GOOD AND LOVING LIFE THAT WAS WRITTEN 2000 YEARS AGO.

I ask all Christians and people of all faith to think about what they truly beleive in. There is not the single most piece of evidence to suggest any of these gods exist, ever did or ever will or any of there stories ever happened, hell half them don't even make sense and would be impossible to achieve. Please think about it, DO NOT TAKE THE BIBLE AT FACE VALUE, IT IS A BOOK OF METAPHORS AND TEACHINGS.

Why?

Originally posted by Magee
Why?

Why do people devote their life to a mythical being?
He does not exist
I can not understand it one bit, it really does confuse me.
I CANT UNDERSTAND HOW SOME ONE COULD BELEIVE ALL THIS STUPID NONSENSE.
The bible is not to be taken literally. I have nothing against Christians or any other religion. People (the majority) who beleive the bible to be fact and "the word of GOD" are just insane. Only idiots, people scared of death and people with an agenda beleive the bible to be correct on every page.

DO NOT TAKE THE BIBLE literally, IT IS A BOOK OF MORALS, A BOOK ON HOW TO LIVE A GOOD AND LOVING LIFE THAT WAS WRITTEN 2000 YEARS AGO.

I ask all Christians and people of all faith to think about what they truly beleive in. There is not the single most piece of evidence to suggest any of these gods exist, ever did or ever will or any of there stories ever happened, hell half them don't even make sense and would be impossible to achieve. Please think about it, DO NOT TAKE THE BIBLE AT FACE VALUE, IT IS A BOOK OF METAPHORS AND TEACHINGS.

Why?

Some people find comfort in a world that they can understand.

Originally posted by Magee
Why?

Why do people devote their life to a mythical being?
He does not exist
I can not understand it one bit, it really does confuse me.
I CANT UNDERSTAND HOW SOME ONE COULD BELEIVE ALL THIS STUPID NONSENSE.
The bible is not to be taken literally. I have nothing against Christians or any other religion. People (the majority) who beleive the bible to be fact and "the word of GOD" are just insane. Only idiots, people scared of death and people with an agenda beleive the bible to be correct on every page.

DO NOT TAKE THE BIBLE literally, IT IS A BOOK OF MORALS, A BOOK ON HOW TO LIVE A GOOD AND LOVING LIFE THAT WAS WRITTEN 2000 YEARS AGO.

I ask all Christians and people of all faith to think about what they truly beleive in. There is not the single most piece of evidence to suggest any of these gods exist, ever did or ever will or any of there stories ever happened, hell half them don't even make sense and would be impossible to achieve. Please think about it, DO NOT TAKE THE BIBLE AT FACE VALUE, IT IS A BOOK OF METAPHORS AND TEACHINGS.

Why?

Well, you've already come to the conclusion that there isn't a God or anything like that. So the real "WHY?" is your own.

Why are you asking these people to share their personal faith with you when you know you're going to reject it?

Originally posted by debbiejo
Interesting........thought when Christ died the graves were opened and all that were in the graves went up. Up to where?
Could the view of resurrection mean the mind, spirit, soul? More a metaphor? Just as like the "I am in all things, even in hell"...paraphrased of course by Job.............Everywhere............the whole being of this and ones choice to it ? Not literal mind you...Or is it? Mormons believe in a literal physical resurrection as was shown in Christ's resurrection.

Yes, a few have already resurrected, it began with the death and resurrection of Christ. A general and complete resurrection begins at the second coming though.

Originally posted by debbiejo
We will be at the end of the resurrection then........the end of the judgment you mean...(White Thrown Judgment) ..........Left lane or right lane you mean. Still this means that Eden is now back in play, yes? Over again yet with a whole group? I am unsure of what you are getting at here. No one is cast out in the judgement after Armageddon. After Armageddon men enter the position they are able to maintain. Eden is existent in some form, but one must ask whether the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil were not metaphorical in some way, given this, I do not know to what extent Eden is literally present again. I believe Biblical beliefs must be open minded to the possibility of fulfillment of prophecy and interpretation of scripture anywhere on the spectrum from close minded literal to extreme abstract metaphorical. As to position within "heaven", here is a Mormon scripture on the subject, it is long, and its entirety is worth perusing for an understanding of our view of what the final "judgement" is. I have bolded the sections that directly answer you question as I understand your question.



If this doesn't address your question properly I may need it clarified, or reworded.

Originally posted by Magee
Please think about it, DO NOT TAKE THE BIBLE AT FACE VALUE, IT IS A BOOK OF METAPHORS AND TEACHINGS. I believe Biblical beliefs must be open minded to the possibility of fulfillment of prophecy and interpretation of scripture anywhere on the spectrum from close minded literal to extreme abstract metaphorical. If the Bible is true, the truth is not necessarily completely metaphorical or literal. What it is, is a religious text that may be meant to be taken anywhere on a spectrum from literal to metaphorical. If it is true, then all the philosophies as to aproach are irrelevant, and an open minded view should be taken until such a time as absolute nature of the text is known.

The posts are way too long in this forum.

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