BOTS Bane versus ROTS Anakin and ROTS Obi Wan

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zephiel7
Anakin and Obi Wan move in, move around the corner, wary of any surprises. Anakin had grown into a strong man by this point, but he was still worried about the upcoming fight against the old Jedi turned Sith, the malevolent Count Dooku.

OBI-WAN: (quietly to Anakin) This time we will do it together.

ANAKIN: I was about to say that.

COUNT DOOKU jumps down to the main level.

PALPATINE: Get help! You're no match for him. He's a Sith Lord.

OBI-WAN: Chancellor Palpatine, Sith Lords are our specialty.

OBI-WAN and ANAKIN throw off their cloaks and ignite their lightsabers.

COUNT DOOKU: Your swords, please, Master Jedi. We don't want to make a---

A lightsaber flies in the air and disembowels dread lord Tyrannus before he could finish his sentence.

Anakin and Obi wan are bewildered at the sight before them.

PALPATINE: You, you're...

BANE: No Palpatine, speak not my name. A greater power than either you or I has pit me against these two Jedi. He calls himself Zephiel7, the ruler of all, but master of none.

ZEPHIEL7: FIGHT FOOLS AND AMUSE ME!!!!!!

So who wins?

Anakin is crystal clear, Obi Wan cuts into Soresu.

Bane removes his cloak.

I wont be around to post a worthwile reply, but probably 4 days from now I can come with an argument.

I say Bane.

Lightsnake
Anakin and Obi-wan. There's not much else to say.

Rampant ox
Originally posted by zephiel7

COUNT DOOKU: Your swords, please, Master Jedi. We don't want to make a---

A lightsaber flies in the air and disembowels dread lord Tyrannus before he could finish his sentence.

sad

xxXAcStylesXxx
I'd say Anakin *crystal clear* alone is enough to beat Bane in a straight up duel, adding Obi Wan is overkill.

allfg
Bane destroys them. The jedi's best bet is to force a saber duel, and Bane will still destroy them.

1. He's pretty much mastered the saber staff to the same degree that Kas'im has; he knows every move and sequence perfectly. So if Bane gets a saber staff, technically speaking, he's far more gifted than either Anakin or Obi-Wan. He can also switch up between the different moves and combos of each form, giving him a somewhat unique style.

2. His speed is far beyond these two, considering he was able to move faster than the eyes of trained force users could see, 'so fast that it seemed like time had stopped for them'. And this was before BotS, where he grows far more powerful in the force and where he gains the orbalisk armour (both would improve his speed), Anakin and Obi-Wan weren't anywhere near that fast going by the movies.

3. His physical strength was beastly, he was 6"4' and he was described as a 'mountain of muscle'.

4. His skill was so great that it granted him the ability to beat Kas'im aka the greatest technical saber duelist ever, on equal ground. Again, this was before BotS.

5. His orbalisk armour constantly strengthens his muscles and keeps them flexed, they inject darkside energies inside his body, filling him with fury which can be channeled into his muscles to make him stronger and faster, and they constantly pump him up with adrenaline, keeping him hyped up to the max. They also heal wounds instantaneously.

6. The Orbalisk armour is completely resistant to the cutting power of a lightsaber, and protects Bane's entire body perfectly, except his face.

In other words, Bane is much more technically gifted than either of these duelists, he is far more skilled, he's far quicker, far stronger, and he possesses armour which heals non lethal wounds instantaneously, and almost makes him invincible to physical damage in this scenario. The Jedi Duo get owned, bad.

jollyjim311
Originally posted by allfg
Bane destroys them. The jedi's best bet is to force a saber duel, and Bane will still destroy them.

1. He's pretty much mastered the saber staff to the same degree that Kas'im has; he knows every move and sequence perfectly. So if Bane gets a saber staff, technically speaking, he's far more gifted than either Anakin or Obi-Wan. He can also switch up between the different moves and combos of each form, giving him a somewhat unique style.

2. His speed is far beyond these two, considering he was able to move faster than the eyes of trained force users could see, 'so fast that it seemed like time had stopped for them'. And this was before BotS, where he grows far more powerful in the force and where he gains the orbalisk armour (both would improve his speed), Anakin and Obi-Wan weren't anywhere near that fast going by the movies.

3. His physical strength was beastly, he was 6"4' and he was described as a 'mountain of muscle'.

4. His skill was so great that it granted him the ability to beat Kas'im aka the greatest technical saber duelist ever, on equal ground. Again, this was before BotS.

5. His orbalisk armour constantly strengthens his muscles and keeps them flexed, they inject darkside energies inside his body, filling him with fury which can be channeled into his muscles to make him stronger and faster, and they constantly pump him up with adrenaline, keeping him hyped up to the max. They also heal wounds instantaneously.

6. The Orbalisk armour is completely resistant to the cutting power of a lightsaber, and protects Bane's entire body perfectly, except his face.

In other words, Bane is much more technically gifted than either of these duelists, he is far more skilled, he's far quicker, far stronger, and he possesses armour which heals non lethal wounds instantaneously, and almost makes him invincible to physical damage in this scenario. The Jedi Duo get owned, bad.

Wrong.

1. You're describing Kas'im. Bane doesn't use a saber staff, he has just fought against one. So has Obi Wan. So has Anakin. No biggie. And He only knows the patterns he was taught. He doesn't know everything ever, and, he's not even fighting a saber staff. He's fighting two opponents with a lot of synergy. It'll be tougher than one practitioner with two lightsabers, and, when Kas'im brought ut a new style, he got his ass kicked.

2. No way. Do you know who Anakin is? And the armor might just weigh him down.

3. He was undeniably strong, but Kenobi has faced Durge, who is stronger, and won, while Anakins strength isn't to be underestimated.

4. Kas'im has one hyperbole to his name. He isn't a God. He couldn't do things that someone like Mace or Yoda could.

5. Bane is quite a contender.

6. Like I said, Bane is tough, he's just going to lose his face.


And just for the record:

Obi Wan "is respected throughout the Jedi Order for his insight as well as his warrior skill. He has become the hero of the next generation of Padawans; he is the Jedi their Masters hold up as a model. He is the being that the Council assigns to their most important missions. He is modest, centered, and always kind.
He is the ultimate Jedi. "

Anakin is "The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.
He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it. "

A breif example of Obi and Anakins' synergy: "He threw himself spinning up and away from the two Jedi to land on the situation table, disengaging for a moment to recover his composure-that had been entirely too close-but by the time his boots touched down Kenobi was there to meet him, blade weaving through a defensive velocity so bewilderingly fast that Dooku dared not even try a strike; he threw a feint toward Kenobi's face, then dropped and spun in a reverse ankle-sweep- But not only did Kenobi easily overleap this attack, Dooku nearly lost his own foot to a slash from Skywalker who had again come out of nowhere and now carved through the table so that it collapsed under Dooku's weight and dumped the Sith Lord un-:eremoniously to the floor. This was not in the plan. Skywalker slammed his following strike down so hard that the shock of deflecting it buckled Dooku's elbows. Dooku threw himself into a backroll that brought him to his feet-and Kenobi's blade was there to meet his neck. Only a desperate whirling slash-block, coupled with a wheel kick that caught Kenobi on the thigh, bought him enough time to leap away again, and when he touched down- Skywalker was already there. "

"Skywalker came on, mechanically inexorable, impossibly powerful, a destroyer droid with a lightsaber: each step a blow and each blow a step. Dooku backed away as fast as he dared; Skywalker stayed right on top of him. Dooku's breath went short and hard. He no longer tried to block Skywalker's strikes but only to guide them slanting away; he could not meet Skywalker strength-to-strength-not only did the boy wield tremendous reserves of Force energy, but his sheer physical power was astonishing- "

" was a Djem So stylist, and as fine a one as Dooku had ever seen."

Dooku got away from Anakin "Only to find himself again facing the wheel of blue lightning that was Kenobi's blade."

"Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper, and when Dooku felt Skywalker regain his feet and stride once more toward his back, he finally registered the source of that blinding defensive velocity Kenobi had used a moment ago, and only then, belatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and Shii-Cho had been ploys, as well.
Kenobi had become a master of Soresu. "

"The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-
Skywalker was getting stronger.
Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.
He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again...stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher
ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.
That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze and now Kenobi was back in the picture: with a shout of the Force, he shot like a torpedo up the stairs behind Skywalker..."

"He understood how Skywalker was getting stronger. Why he no longer spoke. How he had become a machine of battle. He
understood why Sidious had been so interested in him for so long.
Skywalker was a natural.
There was a thermonuclear furnace where his heart should be, and it was burning through the firewalls of his Jedi training. He held the Force in the clench of a white-hot fist. He was half Sith already, and he didn't even know it.
This boy had the gift of fury. "

Anakin and Dooku "stood nearly toe-to-toe, blades flashing faster than the eye could see..."

"Anakin's mind is clear as a crystal bell.
In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do.
Decide.
So he does.
He decides to win.
He decides that Dooku should lose the same hand he took. Decision is reality, here: his blade moves simultaneously with his will and blue fire vaporizes black Corellian nanosilk and disintegrates flesh and shears bone, and away falls a Sith Lord's lightsaber hand, trailing smoke that tastes of charred meat and burned hair. The hand falls with a bar of scarlet blaze still extending from its spastic death grip, and Anakin's heart sings for the fall of that red blade."

I don't feel like quotesnatching anymore... I'll have more later...

Lightsnake
Yeah, Sith'Ari's wrong as usual. bane loses and hard

Count Makashi
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Wrong.

1. You're describing Kas'im. Bane doesn't use a saber staff, he has just fought against one. So has Obi Wan. So has Anakin. No biggie. And He only knows the patterns he was taught. He doesn't know everything ever, and, he's not even fighting a saber staff. He's fighting two opponents with a lot of synergy. It'll be tougher than one practitioner with two lightsabers, and, when Kas'im brought ut a new style, he got his ass kicked.

2. No way. Do you know who Anakin is? And the armor might just weigh him down.

3. He was undeniably strong, but Kenobi has faced Durge, who is stronger, and won, while Anakins strength isn't to be underestimated.

4. Kas'im has one hyperbole to his name. He isn't a God. He couldn't do things that someone like Mace or Yoda could.

5. Bane is quite a contender.

6. Like I said, Bane is tough, he's just going to lose his face.


And just for the record:

Obi Wan "is respected throughout the Jedi Order for his insight as well as his warrior skill. He has become the hero of the next generation of Padawans; he is the Jedi their Masters hold up as a model. He is the being that the Council assigns to their most important missions. He is modest, centered, and always kind.
He is the ultimate Jedi. "

Anakin is "The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.
He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it. "

A breif example of Obi and Anakins' synergy: "He threw himself spinning up and away from the two Jedi to land on the situation table, disengaging for a moment to recover his composure-that had been entirely too close-but by the time his boots touched down Kenobi was there to meet him, blade weaving through a defensive velocity so bewilderingly fast that Dooku dared not even try a strike; he threw a feint toward Kenobi's face, then dropped and spun in a reverse ankle-sweep- But not only did Kenobi easily overleap this attack, Dooku nearly lost his own foot to a slash from Skywalker who had again come out of nowhere and now carved through the table so that it collapsed under Dooku's weight and dumped the Sith Lord un-:eremoniously to the floor. This was not in the plan. Skywalker slammed his following strike down so hard that the shock of deflecting it buckled Dooku's elbows. Dooku threw himself into a backroll that brought him to his feet-and Kenobi's blade was there to meet his neck. Only a desperate whirling slash-block, coupled with a wheel kick that caught Kenobi on the thigh, bought him enough time to leap away again, and when he touched down- Skywalker was already there. "

"Skywalker came on, mechanically inexorable, impossibly powerful, a destroyer droid with a lightsaber: each step a blow and each blow a step. Dooku backed away as fast as he dared; Skywalker stayed right on top of him. Dooku's breath went short and hard. He no longer tried to block Skywalker's strikes but only to guide them slanting away; he could not meet Skywalker strength-to-strength-not only did the boy wield tremendous reserves of Force energy, but his sheer physical power was astonishing- "

" was a Djem So stylist, and as fine a one as Dooku had ever seen."

Dooku got away from Anakin "Only to find himself again facing the wheel of blue lightning that was Kenobi's blade."

"Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper, and when Dooku felt Skywalker regain his feet and stride once more toward his back, he finally registered the source of that blinding defensive velocity Kenobi had used a moment ago, and only then, belatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and Shii-Cho had been ploys, as well.
Kenobi had become a master of Soresu. "

"The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-
Skywalker was getting stronger.
Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.
He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again...stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher
ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.
That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze and now Kenobi was back in the picture: with a shout of the Force, he shot like a torpedo up the stairs behind Skywalker..."

"He understood how Skywalker was getting stronger. Why he no longer spoke. How he had become a machine of battle. He
understood why Sidious had been so interested in him for so long.
Skywalker was a natural.
There was a thermonuclear furnace where his heart should be, and it was burning through the firewalls of his Jedi training. He held the Force in the clench of a white-hot fist. He was half Sith already, and he didn't even know it.
This boy had the gift of fury. "

Anakin and Dooku "stood nearly toe-to-toe, blades flashing faster than the eye could see..."

"Anakin's mind is clear as a crystal bell.
In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do.
Decide.
So he does.
He decides to win.
He decides that Dooku should lose the same hand he took. Decision is reality, here: his blade moves simultaneously with his will and blue fire vaporizes black Corellian nanosilk and disintegrates flesh and shears bone, and away falls a Sith Lord's lightsaber hand, trailing smoke that tastes of charred meat and burned hair. The hand falls with a bar of scarlet blaze still extending from its spastic death grip, and Anakin's heart sings for the fall of that red blade."

I don't feel like quotesnatching anymore... I'll have more later...

i agree Anakin himself can defeat Bane, adding Obi-Wan is an overkill.

kamhal
I don't think this is an overkill, but still, I think anakin with obi-wan should take this.

allfg
WRONG!

Bold, Cap locks and teh exclamation mark > you, I win.



The fact that he has never used one before doesn't change the fact that he knew every move and sequence there was to the blade. It's directly stated, so if given the blade, he would be able to wield it to the same effect.



He's directly stated to know every move and sequence for Kas'im's saber staff (which includes forms 1 to 7, and more, seeing as Kas'im furthered the forms). Unless you can prove that the 7 saber forms were furthered since that particular time period, you have no case.



That's great, it still didn't grant them the skill to take down Dooku together. In fact, Obi-Wan's very presence holds Anakin back.



This is relevant, how? Neither Obi-Wan or Anakin are as great a duelist as Kas'im, and neither use forms that Bane is unfamiliar with, so your point is?



No clue...
Please, just watch the movie, Anakin never displays exceptional speed whatsoever. Nothing that compares to what I just posted.



The armour's not even that heavy, I mean it's not like Vader's armour or anything; it's not bulky, and weighs like only 15 kgs tops, but sure, to a degree they would, however the advantages given in terms of speed far outweigh the disadvantages.



I'm not saying that Bane's strength alone grants him the win, I was just pointing out every attribute, and showing how Bane easily beats both of them in every way... But really, as strong as Durge was, he was nowhere near as skilled as Bane.



Not at all, but not quite on Bane's level.



That movie Mace and Yoda can do? Hell yes.



Understatement of the year.



Lol, sure thing.



You know, I will say this: I've always appreciated those nice posts of yours, they're very creative, and I give you mad props for them, but the thing is, we can perfectly see how skilled the movie characters are, based on..that's right, the movies aka the highest form of canon, and they don't match up to some of the non-movie powerhouses. EU material can never change that, because it can't possibly supersede the movies, which firmly puts characters like Anakin and Obi-Wan on a low level. And the passages that you posted from the novelisation fightscene are invalid anyways, as they directly contradict the movies. Really, the duo have no chance in hell.

Lightsnake
And blah blah blah...Get over it. Bane is fighting two of the most skilled Jedi ever

Gideon
Depends.

If Anakin is in "teh zone", then he - by himself - will defeat Bane in lightsaber combat without pushing himself to his limits. If not, they might win, but it'd be a lot harder.

allfg
You do realise that the whole "teh zone" argument is supported solely by an invalid novelisation fightscene, right?

Gideon
Originally posted by allfg
You do realise that the whole "teh zone" argument is supported solely by an invalid novelisation fightscene, right?

No. It explains quite handily why Anakin was able to overcome Dooku.

allfg
I didn't dispute with how great the explanation was, all I'm saying is that the novelisation fightscene is 100% invalid, and thus so is the argument.

Gideon
Originally posted by allfg
I didn't dispute with how great the explanation was, all I'm saying is that the novelisation fightscene is 100% invalid, and thus so is the argument.

That's not how it works. According to the interview with Mathew Stover provided by Lightsnake on EoD, everything that was in the novel was there "because Lucas wanted it to be there". Which means that the explanations - if not the exact choreography - and the narrative itself is still canon, which means that it still applies.

Thus, the argument is there.

Utrigita
I know that everyone consider the movies the best form of Canon but in this case perhaps we should look elsewhere since Banes feats are based on books which doesn't suffer from the problems of filming them like, the fast movement how would that look in a film a character moving so fast that none could see him.
These might sound dumb but it is only a suggestion since the feats in a movie and the feats in a book isn't comparable

darthsith19
I say Bane takes this. I mean, he's stronger than Dooku (I believe we will all agree on that, eve, Rampant Ox wink ) and we saw how Dooku fared against these two - he took Kenobi out, so Bane will too. However, as opposed to taunting Anakin and pissing him off, thus ending up dead, Bane will probably remain silent, as that's how he seems to normally fight, and also he won't be getting tired like Dooku was beause his Orbalisks supply him with an unlimited amount of adrenaline. So after taking out Kenobi he'll be able to beat Anakin.


btw, I loved the dialogue. smile

Gideon
Originally posted by darthsith19
I say Bane takes this. I mean, he's stronger than Dooku (I believe we will all agree on that, eve, Rampant Ox wink ) and we saw how Dooku fared against these two - he took Kenobi out, so Bane will too. However, as opposed to taunting Anakin and pissing him off, thus ending up dead, Bane will probably remain silent, as that's how he seems to normally fight, and also he won't be getting tired like Dooku was beause his Orbalisks supply him with an unlimited amount of adrenaline. So after taking out Kenobi he'll be able to beat Anakin.


btw, I lobed the dialogue. smile

Now, this route, Sith'ari, would be a better one. I'd recommend arguing this.

allfg
That doesn't change the fact that anything which contradicts the movies is rendered invalid.

Which means that the explanations - if not the exact choreography - and the narrative itself is still canon, which means that it still applies.

Narrative dependant on invalid events is rendered invalid. That is the case here.

Lightsnake
Oh, shut up. You don't decide what's canon or not. Hell, I could call PoD totally uncanon for its contradictions to previously established sources....your worthless hyperbole accounts for nothing

allfg
Except it doesn't work like that, newer sources > older souces. It's what the whole concept of retcon works under.

Lightsnake
Provide source and page number.

Oh, waaaaait...you can't do SHIT.

allfg
Excuse me?

Lightsnake
You heard me. You can't prove a thing you say, so you resort to stupid hypocrisy. "But...but, it's newer!"

Why should I trust your opinion when I have canon?

allfg
It's a well established fact that newer sources have the authority to overwrite older ones. Don't be annoying just for the sake of it.

Lightsnake
Lol. That doesn't mena on expressions of power that's ambiguous and dependent on your opinion anyways.

It retconned Farfalla's survival....unless it stated Bane as the strongest? Means nothing

zephiel7

Lightsnake

Darth Sexy

zephiel7

Lightsnake

jollyjim311
1. Anakin naturally goes into "the zone". Dookus' taunts were to make Anakin realize what he was doing, and bring him out of it.
2. A shot to the face will kill Bane, don't try and BS around that.
3. It's actually 18 strikes per second, LS, that Obi Wan blocked. Once Greivous boosted it up to twenty, Obi changed strategy and took off a pair of his hands.

That's about it. I really don't see Bane winning this match... at all.

Black Dalek
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Anakin and Obi-wan do have those....unless you're gonna tell me Bane is stronger than durge-and please don't even try....Gen'Dai are about the strongest race in SW- than there really isn't much..


Just that Bane's vulnerability is a huge problem, especially when double teamed....he's not a defensive fighter


If Bane decided to do such, Anakin would get the killing hit in, or hold him off long enough for Ben to return.. If anakin decides to strike out with the force, Bane's in trouble



And Anakin's done a lot to surpass him



No, that was instinctive, but that is hardly discrediting him in the force department. Hell, look at him even after he was crippled. If he focused, especially in grip of fury?

Also, more focused, As Anakin's was not, and anakin had just come in after a battle and was most certainly not out of it there.



considering Anakin's physical strength and his robotic hand at least can deal with such droids...that is something for him



I'm afraid it's official-by Lucas's own intentions- of Yoda's power, actually...as shown below.
Oh, and you don't decide what's canon. The EU goes by official rules unless declared N-Canon. Oh, and you know who created Bane? George



You want to talk about Lucas's opinion, Zephiel? Ok, then:
In a message dated 7/19/2006 6:06:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, Debnath writes:


Oh, clarification, when you said Yoda was definitely on top, did you mean next to Kun and the Ancients?



Yes. I think that was George Lucas' intention.

TV



We have Matt Stover on record declaring Lucas himself approved the bit of Yoda's personal power, and his expressions of such in references...Apparently Lucas believes Yoda, at least up to that point is the most powerful Jedi and one of the two most powerful Force users....and Bane isn't there. You want what Stover says on the matter? Lucas LINE EDITED his book, word for word.

If you've seen more on Bane's part, you're remaining willfully blind to yoda's own achievments and the creator's own backing. Matt Stover puts Yoda on that level and the Dark side sourcebook, Visual Dictionaries, NEC and Heritage of the Sith put Palpatine-by that time- above Bane.
From stover on how detailed Lucas was:

Q: When you met with George Lucas, what did the two of you discuss?

MS: Mostly what I talked about above. I went into the meeting with a list of very detailed questions about "What was Master So & So thinking when he...?" and "Why, exactly, would Anakin want to..." I had a list of questions from Jim Luceno, too, relating to Labyrinth of Evil, and so we managed to get into quite a bit of the direct backstory -- the details of the relationship between the Lords of the Sith and exactly how and why the Separatists had set up the operation we see played out in the opening minutes of the film. And, of course, we spent quite a bit of time talking about the specifics of Anakin's fall -- what, exactly, drives him over the edge, when it happens, and what has led him to it. And, of course, we had to talk a bit about the dark side...


Q: What were Mr. Lucas's line-edits like? Was he a tough editor?

MS: Not tough so much as exceedingly detailed, though I suspect he would have been very tough indeed if I hadn't been quite so scrupulously faithful to the spirit of his story. I mean, he literally went over it word-by-word, even to the point of altering descriptives to adjust the characters' inflections.






bane has a speed advantage now? Obi-wan's the guy who can block 16 strikes a second at best, right?

A double bladed saber =/= a single bladed one. Moreover, Dooku was described as the greatest loss the Jedi ever suffered to the Dark Side, and Grievous was called the perfect weapon and Obi-wan tooled him...can Kas'im block 16 strikes a second now?

With a KNIFE. It doesn't cauterize or incinerate the cells. Regeneration in that case is impossible. Ever heard of the hydra?

And Anakin needs to score one hit on Bane's head with Obi-wan. And Bane'll die from that. the odds are better on Anakin and Obi's part, especially considering their teamwork tactics per ROTS



Same happened with Exar and Mandalorian iron at first. Not seeing it standing to several blows


By ROTs, Anakin is declared stronger. One force push when Anakin was unfocused means very, very little.

So, no, take it up with George.

I hereby award Lightsnake, Bane Killer Award.

zephiel7

Lightsnake
Originally posted by zephiel7
Have what? I am assuming you mean strength, speed, and endurance to the level of Bane? As if. They are strong Jedi in their own right, but there is no evidence stating they are physically stronger or faster than Bane.
There's noe vidence of the reverse either. Don't go blindingly biased on Bane...Anakin is able to keep pace with Durge and that's no easy feat



durge can put his arms into lava and feel fine...Durge can open up solid durasteel and rip through armored Mandalorians like paper. The Sith failed to kill him, so did the Mandos and the bloodboilers...Durge is a veteran of the Old Sith wars...he's killed thousands of Jedi and Sith. Quite frankly, Bane can't touch him for strength and speed



If Anakin covers his back properly, this won't happen. And that's assuming Bane uses the same tactics

If, if, if...don't use hypotheticals. Dooku had a tactic that Bane would not. Moreover, these Orbalisks won't hold up for long if anakin hammers into them with fist or saber

Hm, last I checked, Qordis was the same as Kaan: He was a cruel, weakling coward and the proponent of all wrong with the Sith...one of those when the Darkside was spread too thin'n and all?
Killing Dooku is a hundred times more impressive than killing Qordis

So, when Bane's focusing-he'll have to concentrate on Saber or Force, Anakin finishes him. Lovely

He's a Form V user. Nuff said

against someone whose moves he knew. He knew Kas'im as well as Obi-wan knew Anakin. Form V is a naturally weak form with Defense


Anakin is also one of the best of the swordsmen who've ever lived, the finest master of Djem So dooku had ever seen. It takes a single motion to deflect Bane's saber and drive the point through his head. And that's in conjunction with Bane. They're not going to let up

In other words, since they know exactly what to focus on and can attack so in conjunction, Bane's in...well, he's in serious trouble. Especially if AnakinAnakin decides to slam a fist into him-are those orbalisks stronger than Super Battle Droid armor we saw him dismantle with his hand in Sithisis?




Because in the ROTS novelization, Obi-wan knew Anakin 'more intimately than a lover' and Anakin was a berserker who was hardly thinking clearly. We saw him at best when he dismantled Dooku without any effort at the end...not to mention they lure Dooku into a false sense of security...And did I add Anakin ability to defeat someone like Durge? Who's totally invulnerable? With armor supposedly impenetrable as it's Mando Iron?



When he was focusing and all? Last I checked, Anakin tore up Zonama Sekot when he was 13 as well.
And again: Bane was lying on the ground exhausted after that. Anakin and Obi-wan are very capable of defending themselves from any seismic activity



No, he hasn't done it again, but he's demonstrated the power and has the ability to do such. Mace himself even put Anakin as possibly the strongest Jedi alive- meaning. What's next, why didn't Bane 'rip apart' Kas'im with the Force? Stated Kas'im was no match for Bane there



As I said: More focused: he knew exactly what he was doing and Kas'im gave him the chance



When I see Bane match durge and dismantle SPDs with his hand, I'll agree

Simple dagger? He was using a battle axe to battle axe and Mandalore's weapon isn't destroyed, Mandalore is thrown off his footing.
And Exar hefted up that squid thing...last I checked, intertebrates and cephalapoids are exceptionally light.

And Anakin's fight with Durge proves quite a bit in itself



Npo. Don't throw your opinion in there. the EU, I'm afraid is canon and apparently, people who know Lucas personally are giving strikingly similar interpretations of Yoda's abilities and power. In the movies, GL intends for Yoda to be one of the most powerful beings in history, and Palpatine as well.
Stover showed that admirably


Apparently GL's intentions extend as far as your opinion




Is there evidence for him being weaker? Amply. Is he weaker than Palpatine? Yes.





I was referring to Yoda more, but I can provide about six other sources.
The NEC: "Yoda failed to defeat the strongest Sith in history." (I even asked Dan wallace to clarify 'power'...strangely, all the SW authors I've spoken to list Yoda as top of the line in comparison to anyone but Palp and Luke
AOTC Visual Dictionary: "The greatest master of Evil to ever use Sith Power watches and waits."
heritage of the sith: when it talks of him putting his plan in motion, it mentions him as the culmination of power and tradition of the Sith in millenia
In the Dark Side Sourcebook? Most powerful in over a thousand years and specifically of Bane's order: "The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious."

Lightsnake
Tdon't try to rewrite when canon defeats your opinion! Lucas created Bane and Yoda and the official materials, which >your opinion show Bane as the inferior. Lucas officially okayed and approved Yoda's power and feats in the EU there. and don't even start: Stover gave exactly what he meant: Yoda is the strongest Jedi up to that point, and Palpatine, as proven in other sources, is the strongest Sith
Just because you THINK you read something and Bane did more on flowery prose, doesn't make it so. Got that? It's all just as canon as PoD and the novelization is moreso. Unless we see Bane fight in the movies, how dare you decide what the canon is and twist to suit you? How dare yousuddenly decide to twist the facts when they don't match your opinion?
Yoda and Palpatine of rOTS>Bane. It's clear, cut and there. and unless we see bane fighting visually, all you have is possibly exaggerated prose.

Sorry. Just because you think it showed him as inferior doesn't make it so. The EU-including bits line-edited by Mr, Lucas apparnetly- contradict you. The official statements without controversial evidence contradict you.

quite frankly, the facts contradict you. Yoda and Palpatine>Bane. No case there. Just tell yourself Lucas slows them down in the movies for our limited eyes. The highest canon-movies, don't preclude the EU, nor do they contradict the statements of Palp over Bane. You have to accept this, Zeph.



We've seen the same for Yoda and Mace and Obi-wan and Anakin at their best.
Unsubstantiated hyperbole in PoD? Just maybe. Cuts both ways.

ROTs novelization and ROTs visual guide. . It also prevents him from being menaced by Bane's abilities.

Oh, and Lucas left that bit in so, apparently...it goes with his vision.



He's also never fought someone who used one. Using one and defending from one? Two veeeery different things



So? Dooku was one of the



He certainly mastered all the forms and has an etremely high body count to his name

Probably. That's why Anakin comepnsates



Hardly. he needs to get it into Bane's head or through his eye and that'll end Bane rather succintly. Or sweep it across Bane's neck
Cutting and burning are very different...cuts naturally regenerate...deep burns that a ligtsaber does are not.

It's an analogy. The hydra's heads grow back when it's decapitated...but not when the stumps are cauterized. IT's the same principle...burned cells don't come back



You assume this precludes anything...Grievous's only weak spot was his chest...Durge had almost no weak spot and Anakin ran circles around him until he found a way to kill him. Moreover, how the hell can he defend his head effectively with Djem So? Keeping your saber raised that high is near suicide.


Well, Anakin's stronger than Bane. what's to stop Ani and Obi-wan from joining together and launching a full on attack? And Obi-wan blocked Grievous's unstoppable attack of 16 strikes a second.
And proof Bane'll do this right off? It'll leave him wide, wide open.



Weapons and technology states that every solid material will eventually break from a saber blade itself. Bane's armor can block a few strikes, but I doubt indefinitely




And according to Lucas's vision, Obi-wan was fully focused and trying to finish Anakin off while Anakin couldn't think straight.
And don't tell me Obi-wan was conflicted...he finished him without a hint of hesitation and when he got Anakin on the ground he struck with intent to kill



How Anakin and Obi-wan are practically unstoppable as a team and how Yoda most certainly> Any other Jedi,, the Ancient Sith and exar Kun (Y'know, the ancient Dark Lords Bane himself worshipped? The great JEdi Master Revan?)

Stover made his points very clear. And this, my dear man, is the highest level of canon besides the movies.

PoD has to conform to the others since it makes no claims of Bane being stronger directly. As there is no contradiction, but of maybe 'absence of proof', the matter is rather open and shut

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by zephiel7
Have what? I am assuming you mean strength, speed, and endurance to the level of Bane? As if. They are strong Jedi in their own right, but there is no evidence stating they are physically stronger or faster than Bane.
Are you saying without the force, or with the force to augment them? Without the force Bane is superior to them by far, in strength.



It's not CLEAR that Bane is Dooku's superior, Bane just has "different" techniques. I don't see Bane using the force on Obiwan and NOT dying by Anakin's hand, I don't care if he has orbalisks or not.


Pardon me for not understanding your terminology, but instakills means instantly kill somebody. What he did was hold the guy in a force choke, so that doesn't seem like an instakill but hey, I'm just a guy with bad reading comprehension.



Please prove that Qordis was anything more than an average sith, because virtually nobody from the new sith showed ANYTHING, so your point is moot.



Thats because he knew Kas'im as well as Obiwan knew Anakin. Once Kas'im threw an unknown form at him, he lost. Moot point.




Speculation.



Yet another moot point. Obiwan and Anakin knew each other perfectly, therefore the fight has no bearing on Anakin's power.




A temple that's been standing for a good part of 30,000 years? I'm not construction engineer but I'm going to venture a guess and say that a 30,000 old building isn't exactly "indestructable".




No, we have SEEN what Anakin can do when he puts his mind to it. See Dooku and the temple he destroyed.




Don't really understand what point you're trying to make here.




It's definitely in the NEC cause I'm looking at it, and I believe it's in some sourcebooks. The NEC is in universe but I believe lightsnake or Escape have an out of universe source. If not, RAGNOS RULES!!




Uh they don't portray Yoda being inferior to Bane, Lucas just tried making the movies realistic, not to mention he made the movies first. We have VARIOUS sources that prove Yoda>Bane, so don't even bother arguing that point. I agree that "strongest foe" crap is ambiguous, but Yoda was as powerful as ROTS Sidious, and ROTS Sidious was the most powerful sith lord ever. Not to mention TPM Sidious was mentioned as already becoming the most powerful of Bane's order, so again, moot point.





Thats right.




Your point actually makes sense if you think Anakin and Obiwan are just going to sit there and take it up the wazoo. Otherwise, no.




Obiwan knew Anakin inside and out, and was patient, moot point.

allfg
Sexy, Lightsnake, you guys just got pwned!

Kadesh
thats wtf pwnage and no nebaris, you got pwned

Darth Sexy
Noobaris always gets owned

Kadesh
he sure does "fr33d0n nadd is teh chosen 1!!!!"

allfg
WRONG!!

A lightsaber is weightless; it can't generate impact power, and its only true power is its cutting power. Quite frankly, repeatedly bashing Bane's orbalisks with a piece of string would do a better job at wearing them away than a lightsaber could.

allfg
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Noobaris always gets owned

Yeah, that's great, you're still a loser TD.

Originally posted by Kadesh


Kadesh, go back to Thailand, you wannabee Michael Jackson pedophile b1tch.

Lightsnake
Originally posted by allfg
WRONG!!

A lightsaber is weightless; it can't generate impact power, and its only true power is its cutting power. Quite frankly, repeatedly bashing Bane's orbalisks with a piece of string would do a better job at wearing them away than a lightsaber could.

More lies?
TOTJ disproves you, pal

allfg
How so? The point is, a lightsaber is weightless, so it can't generate kinetic damage, which means that it can either cut through something, or it cant; there's no weighing down of anything.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by allfg
Yeah, that's great, you're still a loser TD.



Kadesh, go back to Thailand, you wannabee Michael Jackson pedophile b1tch.

Uhhh ok Noobaris? How does it feel being an embarassment to society. "Oh boo hoo youre still a loser although I suck at life". Good one..

allfg
Sexy, you suck at debating, you suck at insulting, you suck at everything. You're an embarrassment, now provide an argument, or gtfo.

Lightsnake
Originally posted by allfg
How so? The point is, a lightsaber is weightless, so it can't generate kinetic damage, which means that it can either cut through something, or it cant; there's no weighing down of anything.

which is why when Exar strikes with more power, he slices through.

Funny, that

allfg
Elaborate.

kamikz
What LS is saying, is that Vodo's staff could resist lightsaber strikes any time of the day. However, both times that Exar Kun struck with all his might, the staff broke. The only explenation is that he put more force behind the strike, meaning he struck with more kinetic energy...

allfg
Vodo's staff was faulty.

allfg
Ok, I just read that, and it was kinda vague. Well when Exar first broke Vodo's staff, it was because he used two sabers simultaneously, and the second time, because Vodo's staff had already been broken, it wasn't as string as before, and Exar may well have struck it in its weak spot (the point where it had broken before).

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by allfg
Sexy, you suck at debating, you suck at insulting, you suck at everything. You're an embarrassment, now provide an argument, or gtfo.



Awww how cute, I critisize your debating skills and lack of productive in society, and you throw it right back me. How original, it's no wonder you're the joke of the forum.

allfg
Again, you're an internet spammer, you're about as unproductive to society as it gets. And it's pretty clear that all you can do on here is uselessly bash people (not that you're good at it) because you can't debate for shit. Now provide a relevant argument to the topic, or go home, old man.

Darth Sexy
Originally posted by allfg
Again, you're an internet spammer, you're about as unproductive to society as it gets. And it's pretty clear that all you can do on here is uselessly bash people (not that you're good at it) because you can't debate for shit. Now provide a relevant argument to the topic, or go home, old man.

There's no need to debate to out debate you noobaris, you've effectively lost every debate you've ever been involved in..

Denial... The anti depressant of a nerd...

allfg
I don't have the time, nor do I feel the obligation to get into this with you Sexy.

Darth Sexy
then quit crying, *****.

allfg
Quit following me around like a b1tch, and I'll quit 'crying'.

Darth Sexy
.....

kamikz
Originally posted by allfg
Ok, I just read that, and it was kinda vague. Well when Exar first broke Vodo's staff, it was because he used two sabers simultaneously, and the second time, because Vodo's staff had already been broken, it wasn't as string as before, and Exar may well have struck it in its weak spot (the point where it had broken before).


Lol, and he missed the spot all the other times in their fight? I wouldn't think so, it's big. I think it is pretty clear that he used much more power in the end, and the staff broke because of that.

Lightsnake
There isn't much adebate...Vodo's saber was supposedly stronger than a saber...Exar swung without forced to break it....and he he swung with enough force to cleave Mandalorian metal

allfg
Originally posted by kamikz
Lol, and he missed the spot all the other times in their fight?

Clearly, otherwise it just doesn't makes sense and goes against science.



Perhaps Vodod defended the weak spot extremely well.



Well that goes against science. I think it's safer to take the alternative that actually makes sense...

And LS, what Mandalorian metal? Where abouts was this?

kamikz
Defended it? With what? His hands? He holds both ends of the staff to parry almost every single time, basically, Kun cannot strike anywhere else than in the middle. It is quite obvious that Kun uses more power in the last strike than in the others.

Also, he broke it in the first place, a thing which is supposed to be more powerful than a saber. He used two, and smacked all he could, same as above except he used one...

Lightsnake
Firstm coupla issues of TOTJ: DLOTS.

Blaxican
Originally posted by allfg
Yeah, that's great, you're still a loser TD.



Kadesh, go back to Thailand, you wannabee Michael Jackson pedophile b1tch.

Reported! eek!

Darth Sexy
I wonder how fast Noobaris will be back after this ban..

Kadesh
Originally posted by allfg

Kadesh, go back to Thailand, you wannabee Michael Jackson pedophile b1tch. LOL again you proved yourself to be a dumbass failing to simple english a 3 year old can understand .But yea i think ill go to thailand for a vacation, thanks for recomending me to go for a holiday numbskull.

By the way, at least people gave me credit for impersenating MJ in my hometown, i at least can sing, i can do the moon walk, but what can you do?

i know! You love poledancing and lap dancing you gay s.o.b and bane was your inspiration,


i got your PM by the way, telling me you sock and cause trouble here because you need super magnifying glass to see your own pen!s cuz its so damm small only superman can see it. Poor kid you shoud not have gone for a sex change operation and further you shouldnt have told me about it, tsk tsk tsk

Darth Subjekt
Originally posted by allfg
WRONG!!

A lightsaber is weightless; it can't generate impact power, and its only true power is its cutting power. Quite frankly, repeatedly bashing Bane's orbalisks with a piece of string would do a better job at wearing them away than a lightsaber could.

WRONG!!

virtually impervious to lightsabers means that a lightsaber CAN get through. Rules of grammar dictate written rules of physics.

allfg
Subjekt, a lightsaber is weightless, so how can it cause kinetic damage? Then again, I'm not surprised that you don't get this, ever since your wookiepedia argument I haven't really taken you seriously. Though I'm sure you're gonna reply with the JT insult that you've said like a gazillion times: here's a hint *it wasn't funny the first time*

Kadesh
If sabers cant do kinetic impact then djem so is useless since thats whats it is based on. You defy the laws of logic nebaris

allfg
Only when up against another lightsaber Kadesh. Fact is, a weightless object can't produce kinetic damage, you can't put force into your attacks.

Kadesh
well you do have a point..

((The_Anomaly))
Thats BS, the person swinging the actual object creates kinetic force behind the attacks, while its harder to generate, and not as powerful as something that is weighted already, you can still put force behind your attacks.

allfg
Bullshit. A lightsaber is weightless, you can't generate kinetic damage with something which has no weight; no force can be applied into it.

Lightsnake
Except...that's exactly what happens

jollyjim311
Apparently the technology allows it to be used as a solid object. Don't ask "how" on this one...

((The_Anomaly))
Originally posted by allfg
Bullshit. A lightsaber is weightless, you can't generate kinetic damage with something which has no weight; no force can be applied into it.

Your a tool, the hilt has weight, which is what they're swinging around. I dont know if you've seen the movies but thats attached to the bottem of the blade, they're not just swinging around beams of weightless light. friggin n00b.

allfg
You're a moron (calling someone a tool only shows people that you're lame, btw), the weight of the hilt is irrelevant seeing as you're not actually hitting you opponent with it, you dumbass. You seem to be confusing kinetic energy with kinetic damage; go back to school.

Lightsnake
Why, exactly, then, do we have evidence of force and strenth being a factor?

Darth Subjekt
alf, or whatever you named your current sock, you are without a doubt the stupidest person on these boards. You may not take me seriously, but then, who takes you seriously? oh thats right, NOBODY. You're a loser who constantly has Bane's dick in your mouth. If something is virtually impervious, then that means its not completely safe from it. Also, while the blade itself is weightless, it follows where the hilt goes, the faster the hilt, the faster the blade. Now since You're always so big on "teh pLaN3tZ uBeR logic" of star wars, you have to realize that since we have sound and explosions in space, a weightless object can inflict damage upon your precious Bane. Get over it, he is able to lose, he's not uber and he and his armor can be damaged by a lightsaber.

((The_Anomaly))
Originally posted by allfg
You're a moron (calling someone a tool only shows people that you're lame, btw), the weight of the hilt is irrelevant seeing as you're not actually hitting you opponent with it, you dumbass. You seem to be confusing kinetic energy with kinetic damage; go back to school.

Someone has zero idea how physics works.

P.S. WTF is kenetic damage? Now your just making shit up.

Black Dalek
Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Someone has zero idea how physics works.

P.S. WTF is kenetic damage? Now your just making shit up.

Probably an RPG term which he plays with his fat virgin friends..

'ZOMG!! I DO KENETIC DMG!!'

'I DO SAVE THROWW!!'

Kadesh
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
alf, or whatever you named your current sock, you are without a doubt the stupidest person on these boards. You may not take me seriously, but then, who takes you seriously? oh thats right, NOBODY. You're a loser who constantly has Bane's dick in your mouth. If something is virtually impervious, then that means its not completely safe from it. Also, while the blade itself is weightless, it follows where the hilt goes, the faster the hilt, the faster the blade. Now since You're always so big on "teh pLaN3tZ uBeR logic" of star wars, you have to realize that since we have sound and explosions in space, a weightless object can inflict damage upon your precious Bane. Get over it, he is able to lose, he's not uber and he and his armor can be damaged by a lightsaber.

dont forget the law of physics state that the faster the acceleration, the greater the pressure on impact, learn to accept that nebaris

allfg
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
alf, or whatever you named your current sock, you are without a doubt the stupidest person on these boards.

Well then it must get pretty frustrating constantly losing to 'the stupidest person on these boards'. No wonder you're so angry, you big dummy.



Aren't you the middle aged man who frequents a Star wars forum and constantly loses to people half his age in debates? Oh, you're not a loser, you're a winner! smile



OMFG, you're as dumb as Anal Man, and like him, you need to go back to school.

A lightsaber blade is weightless. How quickly you can swing it is irregardless of how great it's impact damage is.



Darth Reject, please tell me, what does the 'Sci' in 'Sci-Fi' stand for, exactly?



And he's actually going to get hit by the lightsaber a hundred times, right?

You. Are. Dumb.

allfg
Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Someone has zero idea how physics works.

P.S. WTF is kenetic damage? Now your just making shit up.

Damage caused purely through impact. Again, go back to school.

((The_Anomaly))
Originally posted by allfg
Damage caused purely through impact. Again, go back to school.

LOL Seriously, why don't you stop, your just embarrassing yourself.

Darth Subjekt
Originally posted by allfg
Well then it must get pretty frustrating constantly losing to 'the stupidest person on these boards'. No wonder you're so angry, you big dummy.
You big dummy??? How elementary school is that shit? Well, I'm rubber and you're glue, and whenever I nut, it lands on you. And losing to you??? LMFAO! I've never lost to you...no one has!! laughing


Originally posted by allfg
Aren't you the middle aged man who frequents a Star wars forum and constantly loses to people half his age in debates? Oh, you're not a loser, you're a winner! smile
Middle aged? - nope; Frequent? - nope; Loses to dumbasses like you? - nope. I'm not the loser who is so pathetic about these boards, that I have to go and make sock after sock everytime I get banned just to keep coming back here to get banned again, LOL. You're a fvcking loser...nerd!


Originally posted by allfg
OMFG, you're as dumb as Anal Man, and like him, you need to go back to school.

A lightsaber blade is weightless. How quickly you can swing it is irregardless of how great it's impact damage is. Actually I'm in school working on a my Mastes, but thanks for playing. And right, thats why dooku's saber only barely cut OB1, and Mace's went right through Jango's neck...right, speed has nothing to do with it.



Originally posted by allfg
Darth Reject, please tell me, what does the 'Sci' in 'Sci-Fi' stand for, exactly?
Alf dick, please tell me what the 'Fi' in "Sci-Fi" stands for, exactly. By the way, you wannabe grammar nazi, you posed a statement, not a question, therefore you needed a period rather than a question mark. wink
WAAAH!!! GO BACK TO SCHOOL!!!WAAHH

Originally posted by allfg
And he's actually going to get hit by the lightsaber a hundred times, right?

You. Are. Dumb. Well, when you fight people that much better than you, anything can happen. And provide proof where it says it takes 100 hits to break through the orbalisks.

You.Suck.Dick.

Darth Sexy
What I don't understand is how noobaris still thinks that he's winning ANY arguments here.

kamhal
Ok, don't take me wrong but, i think this bane's fanboyism is getting annyoing. In every single post bane appears has some kind of sith god... Really, bane is good, and probably on the top 10 or 5 from te greatest sith, but he was not THAT good... The force users of his time really suck lol...

Darth_Glentract
WTF are you talking about? How can you consider him in the top five or ten and not consider him really good?

Kadesh
Originally posted by kamhal
Ok, don't take me wrong but, i think this bane's fanboyism is getting annyoing. In every single post bane appears has some kind of sith god... Really, bane is good, and probably on the top 10 or 5 from te greatest sith, but he was not THAT good... The force users of his time really suck lol... the force users at his time really did suck but bane was the only close-to-power with the movie characters, so yes he is that good

kamhal
You misunderstood me. When i said "he was not THAT good" I was saying that "he is not the strongest force user ever, able to destroy every single jedi or sith that ever lived in history" as i seem to see lately...

Got it?

Kadesh
Originally posted by kamhal
You misunderstood me. When i said "he was not THAT good" I was saying that "he is not the strongest force user ever, able to destroy every single jedi or sith that ever lived in history" as i seem to see lately...

Got it? Next time be more clear, not THAT good could mean he could be weaker than obi wan, Just interpret it properly

allfg
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
You big dummy??? How elementary school is that shit?

Well if you act like a big dummy, that's what you're going to get called, you big dummy.



Wow! You know how to use smileys! Ergo, you can't be angry, upset and crying like a 6 year old girl. Oh wait, that's not right...



Are you not a 40 year old army veteran?



LOL, I love how you don't disagree with the 'loses to people half his age in debates'. laughing

And yes, you have lost to me, refer to the 'does being at full potential mean that a force user can't become any more powerful?' argument.



Oh I forgot, you're the guy who writes his own rap lyrics. Lol!



I'd suggest high school science, don't bite on more than you can chew.



Wow, I didn't realise you could get any dumber. Speed had nothing to do with it, it was the type of lightsaber attack used (swinging slash by Windu, light stab by Dooku), and how far the blade was pushed into each opponent.



Wow, this was original. roll eyes (sarcastic)
Please, even 'allfag' would have sounded better than that.



Right, so because Star Wars is fictional, the rules of science don't apply... I guess gravity doesn't exist in Star Wars either, huh?



Oh my fricking days, you are a moron. Now read carefully what I posted, in fact, because I'm a nice person, I'll post it for you:

'Darth Reject, please tell me, what does the 'Sci' in 'Sci-Fi' stand for, exactly?'

See what I put in bold letters? That's what you'd call a question word. As in, I was asking a question. As in, you're a moron. In fact, I think I can see why you're so confused on this simple issue. Here's what you posted:

'Alf dick, please tell me what the 'Fi' in "Sci-Fi" stands for, exactly.'

This would be a statement, yes, but it differs very much from what I said. Read through it carefully, perhaps you'll understand. Now like I've been saying, please go back to school.



Wow, you know how to copy Gideon! I'm impressed.



Refer to my first post, where I effectively proved that Bane is leagues better than either in any and every way.



That wasn't my point Darth Reject; you seemed to be implying that Bane would actually get hit multiple times (he wouldn't even get hit period, actually), which is silly.



You. Suck. AnalMan.

xxXAcStylesXxx
You both sound stupid, just cut the insults and stick to the argument.

Black Dalek
Can I ask you guys a question? Where does it state that a lightsaber is weightless?

allfg
The blade is pure energy... If you want to argue that it has mass, go ahead.

((The_Anomaly))
No, the blade does not have mass, but it doesn't need to, its attached to something that DOES have mass. Therefore the entire weapon itself has mass...Just not very much. Nevertheless, you can therefore put significant force behind a lightsaber blow depending on how fast and hard you swing it. Can you put as much force behind it as say a Sith sword? No you cant, because Sith swords are heavy swords, but you can still put force behind a lightsaber attack. The entire weapons itself isn't weightless.

Darth Sexy
Noobaris. There IS a hilt on a lightsaber, you do know that right? Now unless you want to argue that the hilt is weightless, your point is moot.

allfg
I wasn't arguing that you can't swing a lightsaber blade quicker with more strength, if that's how what I was saying came off across, then that wasn't my intention. All I was saying is that how quickly you swing the blade has no relation on the damage the lightsaber causes on impact because the blade is weightless, and therefor can't cause any damage in that way; you can't channel speed and force into a weightless blade to inflict kinetic damage.

allfg
Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Noobaris. There IS a hilt on a lightsaber, you do know that right? Now unless you want to argue that the hilt is weightless, your point is moot.

Read the post above^. What you're hitting your opponents with: the blade itself, is weightless. It's only power lies in burning through solid material, however if a material is resistant to the cutting power of a lightsaber, it's pretty much ineffective in wearing the material away.

Lightsnake
And AGAIN: We've seen Exar Kun disprove that theory....and lightsabers have different possible settings

allfg
Provide a direct link to where he disproves that, and I'll concede.



Intensity levels... Nothing to do with damage caused by impact.

Lightsnake
go to SWtimeline.com an find the part when Exar destroys the wall of mando iron...it's in TOTJ: DLOTS

((The_Anomaly))
Originally posted by allfg
I wasn't arguing that you can't swing a lightsaber blade quicker with more strength, if that's how what I was saying came off across, then that wasn't my intention. All I was saying is that how quickly you swing the blade has no relation on the damage the lightsaber causes on impact because the blade is weightless, and therefor can't cause any damage in that way; you can't channel speed and force into a weightless blade to inflict kinetic damage.

Since you fail to comprehend what I said, I'm going to post this again.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
No, the blade does not have mass, but it doesn't need to, its attached to something that DOES have mass. Therefore the entire weapon itself has mass...Just not very much. Nevertheless, you can therefore put significant force behind a lightsaber blow depending on how fast and hard you swing it. Can you put as much force behind it as say a Sith sword? No you cant, because Sith swords are heavy swords, but you can still put force behind a lightsaber attack. The entire weapons itself isn't weightless.

allfg
I understand perfectly, and I'm guessing you know that, but since you know that I'm right and you're wrong, and don't want to admit it, but don't want to back away either, you're choosing to act as if I'm missing your point, without any explanation as to how I'm doing that might I add. Now really, hypothetically speaking, if I did miss your point the first time, what makes you so sure that I'll get it the second? I think an explanation as to how I missed your point, and what your point really is, is in order, ((The Anomaly))

allfg
Originally posted by Lightsnake
go to SWtimeline.com an find the part when Exar destroys the wall of mando iron...it's in TOTJ: DLOTS

OK, I just read from here onwards, and I'm not seeing your point Lightsnake, could you elaborate?

Lightsnake
something you don't get about that?

allfg
Clearly. Elaborate.

Blaxican
You don't even need the comcis to prove that. Luke cuts through a wall of Cortosis with his lightsaber in the Thrawn duology. That's a perfectly valid example of a lightsaber cutting through something lightsaber resistant.

Lightsnake
Exar swings once....Mando iron undented.

Exar swings with more power. He cuts through

allfg
Exact book, passage and page number?

allfg
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Exar swings once....Mando iron undented.

On a low lightsaber intensity.



What page? I couldn't find that anywhere? And even then, the intensity levels explains why.

xxXAcStylesXxx
The pictures prove you wrong already.

allfg
OK, for some reason my internet wasn't displaying the bottom part of that page earlier, but still, there's a perfectly valid explanation: the lightsaber's intensity level. That has nothing to do with the kinetic damage a lightsaber can cause.

Blaxican
Originally posted by allfg
Exact book, passage and page number?

I'll PM it to you I guess wyhen I get it. It's at my Mom's house.

Lightsnake
We also see the Jedi on Saleucami cut through cortosis weaponry

((The_Anomaly))
Originally posted by allfg
I understand perfectly, and I'm guessing you know that, but since you know that I'm right and you're wrong, and don't want to admit it, but don't want to back away either, you're choosing to act as if I'm missing your point, without any explanation as to how I'm doing that might I add. Now really, hypothetically speaking, if I did miss your point the first time, what makes you so sure that I'll get it the second? I think an explanation as to how I missed your point, and what your point really is, is in order, ((The Anomaly))

Reading the verbal spunk that comes out of your mouth makes me want to give up on humanity.

Kadesh
juz ignore him. Hes like cancer who will never go away FFS why didnt they ban this fella yet,

allfg
Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Reading the verbal spunk that comes out of your mouth makes me want to give up on humanity.

Now why am I not surprised that you backed out of this?

Kadesh
Originally posted by allfg
Now why am I not surprised that you backed out of this? because he simply thinks you are too stupid to talk to even in your own retarted language

((The_Anomaly))
Originally posted by allfg
Now why am I not surprised that you backed out of this?

Because you seemingly cant even read and comprehend basic words, like "entire" and "weapon" and "itself" "and even more simple words like "has" and "mass". Seriously, your asking for an explanation of something that is written is plain, straightforward English. You cant get anymore concise then what I said, so I'm not going to bother trying.

allfg
LOL, sure thing! thumb up



Wow, someone needs to improve their reading comprehension skills...
I made it perfectly clear that I understood your post, yet you felt the need to say that I was missing your point, when I clearly wasn't, so I asked you to explain yourself. I didn't ask you to explain your actual post again, because I clearly already understood it. As I said, learn to read.



OK now, let's not get carried away here, it wasn't that concise.

Utrigita
Originally posted by Blaxican
I'll PM it to you I guess wyhen I get it. It's at my Mom's house.
Cannot help you with the page number but it is in the second book of where "Thrawn" comes back to life :Vision of the Future: I think it was in the middle I think but I isn't sure, but it is there for that I am 100% sure.

S_W_LeGenD
Bane is more powerful then either of them. But Anakin (ROTS) is still an exceptional match for him.

Lets compare some stats!

Bane vs Anakin ROTS:

Saber Skills: Bane < Anakin
Strength: Bane > Anakin
Force Mastery: Bane > Anakin
Potential: Bane < Anakin
Experience: Bane is more experienced then Anakin.
Over-powering Factor: Bane and Anakin are equal in this case. Bane can Over-power through his greater Force Mastery and Anakin can Over-power through his Saber skills.

Bane vs Obi-Wan ROTS:

Saber Skills: Bane < Obi-Wan
Strength: Bane > Obi-Wan
Force Mastery: Bane > Obi-Wan
Potential: Bane > Obi-Wan ???
Experience: Bane is at-least on par with Obi-Wan in this regard.
Over-powering Factor: Bane is more Over-powering in this case. Bane can Over-power through his greater Force Mastery.

In case of Bane vs Anakin ROTS + Obi-Wan ROTS:

Now when Bane will face both Anakin and Obi-Wan in a fight, then he is at clear disadvantage against the odds.

Still Bane has chance to win by over-powering these two Jedi Knights through his impressive Force mastery. But if Bane is locked in to Saber contest by these two individuals, then he will be defeated.

Anyways! this will be a very tough fight for Bane.

Just my 2 cents.

Kadesh
Um anakin would over power bane in saber skills, and what part does experience play? yoda had 800 yrs and stalemated with sidious whom only had 60 years of experience


And things dont end up in a force fight unless one of them gets disarmed

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Kadesh
Um anakin would over power bane in saber skills, and what part does experience play? yoda had 800 yrs and stalemated with sidious whom only had 60 years of experience
Experience determines your ability to make logical, decisive or important decisions in a fight.

Yoda's experience is not yet fully known. His age is irrelevant factor when determining his experience.

Originally posted by Kadesh
And things dont end up in a force fight unless one of them gets disarmed
Dooku proved this notion false. He over-powered Obi-Wan through his Force mastery and then incapacitated him during the fight.

Kadesh
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Experience determines your ability to make logical, decisive or important decisions in a fight.

Yoda's experience is not yet fully known. His age is irrelevant factor when determining his experience.
still yoda who had 800 years of experience could not defeat the strongest sith lord, and dookus mastery and exp > anakin by a hell margin and yet died in a duel but yea i think ill agree with u here
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Dooku proved this notion false. He over-powered Obi-Wan through his Force mastery and then incapacitated him during the fight.
That was because there was an oppourtunity to do so, well you are right here but how well do we know if bane would use the force? in his fight with kasim he used the force as a last resort cuz he managed to back away, So if he is able to back far, his force would > the duo

Darth Subjekt
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Experience determines your ability to make logical, decisive or important decisions in a fight.

Yoda's experience is not yet fully known. His age is irrelevant factor when determining his experience.

"For 800 years have I trained Jedi Knights."

Yea, we sure as hell don't know shit about his experience, huh? And where the hell did you get those stats? Your opinion? How the hell can you know who is physically stronger? Based on his appearance in a comic book?

Just because people know the force, doesn't mean they always use it. Usually it's 1 or 2 feats, then on with the sabers.

xxXAcStylesXxx
No, Bane has been in what three real lightsaber duels in his entire life, Sirak, That other Sith Student and Kas'im. And has spent about a year and a half at BEST studying the Sith, while Anakin has been a Jedi for about 13 years, faced numerous foes like The Magna Guards, Ventress, Durge, Dooku ect...was a general in a full scale ground and space war for three years. Bane is green compared to Anakin.




No, this is the same for Anakin accept add anther 10 or so years of studying the force, training under Jinn, facing Maul, and all there other trials Obi Wan has faced and again the duo have the edge in experience.




I really don't see how this lasts beyond about 2 minutes, he tries to use the force on one and he'll get a blade in his face, and he's not sitting around spamming force waves so really what is he gonna do?

We've seen how Bane does when he sees a new style that he hasn't memorized sets of, he shits his pants, loses his focus and runs. Now whats he gonna do to perhaps the greatest masters of Djem So and Soresu ever? Especially considering the fact that when he did memorise the sets of these forms they were from a double bladed saber and DBL Djem So and Soresu =/= Single Sabered Djem So and Soresu.

Then, we also have the fact that he almost lost to Sith Students when he was outnumbered, 3 : 2, not to mention that they were clumsy and didn't follow up on attacks (Bane was almost knocked out by a single strand of force lightning) So really whats he gonna do to OB1 and Anakin who compliment each other completely, move almost and move almost in unison to each other.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
"For 800 years have I trained Jedi Knights."

Yea, we sure as hell don't know shit about his experience, huh? And where the hell did you get those stats? Your opinion? How the hell can you know who is physically stronger? Based on his appearance in a comic book?

Just because people know the force, doesn't mean they always use it. Usually it's 1 or 2 feats, then on with the sabers.
Training Jedi Knights is one thing. But real experience is gained through exposures in dangerous situations like in battles and fights etc.

Bane is indeed physically stronger then both Anakin and Obi-Wan. He is more heavily built and taller. Especially those shells (orbalisks) on his body boost his energies.

Do not forget that I am talking about Orbalisk Bane here.

And Force fights are not just limited to one or two feats. The fight between Yoda and Sidious showed us that extensive Force fights can take place as well.

Have you forgot that how Dooku incapacitated Obi-Wan in that ship in ROTS?

Why can't Bane pull out such a move? He is more powerful then Dooku at-least.

Kadesh
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Bane is indeed physically stronger then both Anakin and Obi-Wan. He is more heavily built and taller. Especially those shells (orbalisks) on his body boost his energies.
Dont forget that each orbalisks scale weighs 1kg and banes entire body is covered with them, that would slow his speed though giving him super strength, Source? Dark side sourcebook stated the orbalisks weight.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Force fights are not just limited to one or two feats. The fight between Yoda and Sidious showed us that extensive Force fights can take place as well.


sidious used the force when he is unarmed, And bane has demonstrated force feats after a saber duel when he nearly got shitted, like i said if he manages to back a distance he can unleash his attacks with the force

The question is, as he ever faced a master of djem so and soresu to its highest degree? i dont think so

((The_Anomaly))
Bane would beat Obi-Wan in an all otut fight more often then not, but Obi is still a better swordsman, nevertheless, in single combat Obi-Wan would prolly lose.

Anakin however would tool Bane in saber combat, and his raw power is enough to bring down buildings. Although this isn't going to necessarily help in a fight, Bane has never faced someone with power on the level of Anakin, his sheer raw force power is staggering. I'd give Anakin about a 60/50 win in single combat against Bane. Banes takes a few due to his superior offensive force powers, but Anakin is just better then he is.

Together however, then this is a different story. We're talking about one amazingly powerful (and one pretty powerful) and amazingly accomplished Jedi, who are possibly the best team of all time together, especially in saber combat. Seriously, Bane has a chance of beating these two in single combat (as long a he can keep it from becoming saber battle in which case he's pwned either way) but Ani and Obi together = Bane is toast, inside and out.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No, Bane has been in what three real lightsaber duels in his entire life, Sirak, That other Sith Student and Kas'im. And has spent about a year and a half at BEST studying the Sith, while Anakin has been a Jedi for about 13 years, faced numerous foes like The Magna Guards, Ventress, Durge, Dooku ect...was a general in a full scale ground and space war for three years. Bane is green compared to Anakin.
And your forgot to note that Kas'im was superior to Magna Guards, Ventress, Durge and Dooku in terms of Saber Skills. Although Bane did not over-powered him in Saber Combat but he survived and used Force to crush him. This shows that he could win in very tough situations as well.

Also Bane got additional training from Darth Revan's holocron, which was a treasure of Sith Techniques. His knowledge base was enhanced and he used that new knowledge to turn situations in to his favour.

And Bane also has fought in some battles.

If he is not superior to Anakin in terms of experience then he is not inferior either.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No, this is the same for Anakin accept add anther 10 or so years of studying the force, training under Jinn, facing Maul, and all there other trials Obi Wan has faced and again the duo have the edge in experience.
And how much of an elite training did Obi-Wan enjoyed in these 10 years? Bane learned many impressive techniques in a relative short time. So time is irrelevant.

Kas'im was again superior to Maul, Jinn and Grevious in Saber Skills.

Obi-Wan was indeed more experienced then Anakin however.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
I really don't see how this lasts beyond about 2 minutes, he tries to use the force on one and he'll get a blade in his face, and he's not sitting around spamming force waves so really what is he gonna do?
You think that Bane cannot pull out a Force move in case of a fight? This is flawed assumption.

A Force Wave can send individuals flying in the air and then direct strikes of Force Lightning can do the job well. Not to forget that Bane was also a master practitioner of Force Lightning.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
We've seen how Bane does when he sees a new style that he hasn't memorized sets of, he shits his pants, loses his focus and runs. Now whats he gonna do to perhaps the greatest masters of Djem So and Soresu ever? Especially considering the fact that when he did memorise the sets of these forms they were from a double bladed saber and DBL Djem So and Soresu =/= Single Sabered Djem So and Soresu.
Kas'im was a huge challenge for him indeed. And Double Bladed Saber is more dangerous then Single Bladed Saber. DB Saber has more chance to hit you from un-suspecting angles. Why do you think that Darth Maul prefered Double Bladed Saber over Single Blade Saber?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Then, we also have the fact that he almost lost to Sith Students when he was outnumbered, 3 : 2, not to mention that they were clumsy and didn't follow up on attacks (Bane was almost knocked out by a single strand of force lightning) So really whats he gonna do to OB1 and Anakin who compliment each other completely, move almost and move almost in unison to each other.
And this happened to Orbalisk Bane?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Kadesh
sidious used the force when he is unarmed, And bane has demonstrated force feats after a saber duel when he nearly got shitted, like i said if he manages to back a distance he can unleash his attacks with the force

The question is, as he ever faced a master of djem so and soresu to its highest degree? i dont think so
Kas'im had mastered every Saber technique to its highest degree. I don't think that he was inferior to Obi-Wan and Anakin in terms of Saber Skills.

And when Bane will be in trouble then he will resort to his Force Mastery.

I won't be surprised if Bane will over-power both Anakin and Obi-Wan through Force and then turn situation in to his favour. But once again if he does not gets that chance, then he will be destroyed. I consider this as 50/50 situation for both adversaries.

Kadesh
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And your forgot to note that Kas'im was superior to Magna Guards, Ventress, Durge and Dooku in terms of Saber Skills. Although Bane did not over-powered him in Saber Combat but he survived and used Force to crush him. This shows that he could win in very tough situations as well. Yea bane uses the force before getting shitted, again bane killed kasim through a few reasons 1) bane was lucky that kasim was under the structure 2) he had a chance to back away


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Kas'im was a huge challenge for him indeed. And Double Bladed Saber is more dangerous then Single Bladed Saber. DB Saber has more chance to hit you from un-suspecting angles. Why do you think that Darth Maul prefered Double Bladed Saber over Single Blade Saber? And why do you think that dooku wacked anakin for using 2 sabers? i doubt obi 1 ever fought against some one with a DB saber before maul and when the first time he did against maul, it was rather impressive

Kadesh
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Kas'im had mastered every Saber technique to its highest degree. I don't think that he was inferior to Obi-Wan and Anakin in terms of Saber Skills.

And when Bane will be in trouble then he will resort to his Force Mastery.

I won't be surprised if Bane will over-power both Anakin and Obi-Wan through Force and then turn situation in to his favour. But once again if he does not gets that chance, then he will be destroyed. I consider this as 50/50 situation for both adversaries.

Dooku also knew he was in trouble and he could not resort to the force against anakin, i keep saying bane might not be able to back away to use the force with constant barraging from anakins djem so and with every strike anakin gives bane will have to parry it leaving him open to obi wan.

You just proved something, that bane fighting a swordsman who mastered his techniques to the highest degree couldnt contend with him. Ans bane is facing 2 jedi who mastered their own forms to its greatest, Bane already cant handle kasim using one mastered form, what makes you think he can even hold off 2?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Kadesh
And why do you think that dooku wacked anakin for using 2 sabers? i doubt obi 1 ever fought against some one with a DB saber before maul and when the first time he did against maul, it was rather impressive
Anakin was a padawan and he was not a master swordsman, when he faced Dooku for the first time in the battle of Geonosis. But Dooku was far superior to him at that time in AOTC.

And Double Bladed Saber Combat is different from Jar Kai style based Saber Combat.

Also, Obi-Wan used Anger and Hate to boots his effectiveness against Maul. Same thing that Anakin used against Dooku many years later.

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by Kadesh
Dooku also knew he was in trouble and he could not resort to the force against anakin, i keep saying bane might not be able to back away to use the force with constant barraging from anakins djem so and with every strike anakin gives bane will have to parry it leaving him open to obi wan.

You just proved something, that bane fighting a swordsman who mastered his techniques to the highest degree couldnt contend with him. Ans bane is facing 2 jedi who mastered their own forms to its greatest, Bane already cant handle kasim using one mastered form, what makes you think he can even hold off 2?
Remember that part when Dooku managed to separate both of these Jedi in his last fight.

It is not that Bane will be wiped out in few seconds of his engagement with Anakin and Obi-Wan. He might manage to slip away and then use Force to his advantage.

Or another possibility is that in the very start of this battle, he uses Force Wave and throws both Anakin and Obi-Wan away and then resort to further offensive Force attacks.

The point is that both adversaries need to be careful and think smart if they want to win but this depends upon experience factor. If Bane makes the mistake of sticking to Saber Combat against these two Jedi warriors then he is done with or vice versa.

Count Makashi
I agree, with Force powers, he has a chance, but if he fights with lightsabers only, like the mistake Dooku made, he goes down, Anakin alone can defeat him with just ligtsabers.

Kadesh
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Remember that part when Dooku managed to separate both of these Jedi in his last fight. yes, that was due to an opportunity that dooku was able to fling obi wan apart, but remember its not always easy to do so. How often do we see this happen halfway into the battle? From what i have seen this is an isolated case, just because dooku did it to obi wan does it mean bane can? Possibly yes but thats provided anakin is not in "the zone"
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

It is not that Bane will be wiped out in few seconds of his engagement with Anakin and Obi-Wan. He might manage to slip away and then use Force to his advantage.

Or another possibility is that in the very start of this battle, he uses Force Wave and throws both Anakin and Obi-Wan away and then resort to further offensive Force attacks.
I dont see him slipping away since he is getting constant barraging by a djem so practitioner, again it leaves him open to obi wan, i say it again, if he cant handle one swords master properly(kasim) what makes u think he can hold 2 swordmasters off?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

The point is that both adversaries need to be careful and think smart if they want to win but this depends upon experience factor. If Bane makes the mistake of sticking to Saber Combat against these two Jedi warriors then he is done with or vice versa. And most fights start with a duel, If bane were to attack them with force wave as you said, anakin and obi wan would knew that with precognition in hand and thus would know how to counter that, Yes you are right it depends on what bane decides to do

xxXAcStylesXxx
And that means what exactly? The only reason he survived as long as he did was because he memorised all of Kas'im's moves, when Kas'im did something new he shit his pants, the only reason he was even able to win was because Kas'im took the time out of the duel to give a little speech, and not only that Kas'im BLOCKED(!) his "1337" force wave. So really whats your point? Neither his saber skills or his force powers beat Kas'im, it was his tactical thinking that did that, something Anakin (being damn near a military genius) has in abundance.



So...Revans holocron didn't save him from getting his ass beat by Kas'im, Revans holocron didn't save him from having his force wave blocked. Whats your point? Revans holocron gives him an invisible advantage in battle? No, especially when doesn't even use ANY of the powers Revan "taught" him in an actual fight.

And Bane also has fought in some battles.



Random Sith Student #67
Sirak (twice)
Sirak and his buddies and would have lost had it not been for Githany
Kas'im
Qordris (it wasn't an actual fight)
The Orbalisk
Some Random bird.

Oh yes thats such an impressive resume



He's neither equal or superior he's inferior. Plain and simple, He hasn't experienced HALF the things Anakin has. He has seen ONE master who has mastered the 7 styles on a Double Bladed Saber, thats nothing compared to Anakin who has seen mostly all forms of saber combat, is possibly the greatest Djem So master ever, he is proficient with Ataru and Shien, and as ROVD states he knows techniques, styles and forms from all forms of combat. Bane seeing one master does NOT compare.




No its not, Anakin went from being a joke compared to Dooku to having Dooku kneeling at his feet with his hands cut off in 3 years, to dismiss the advantage of time to train and prepare is completely ridicules, Anakin and Obi Wan went from being an ineffective fighting pair divided by Anakins arrogance to one of the most powerful duos ever in Star Wars who knew each other inside and out.

Bane learned techniques...big whoop, in his one chance to shine and show off all his new leet Sith powers he learned from Revan what does he do? Does a straight duel and a force wave. Oh yes SOOOO impressive, tell me please what powers has Revan taught Bane that will be effective in this combat situation? None you can name with out pulling shit out your ass.



So...



Yeah, considering that he would have spammed them against Kas'im if he could pull this off, and not only that it was such a direct clumsy display of power that it was easily blocked with in a second of seeing the attack. Then we have the fact that he took a good 5 or so seconds to gather the energy to even do the attack, again he's not spamming these. If Bane takes even half a second to attempt this he'll be dead, The duo almost killed Dooku within a second because he lost focus.



Your assuming:

A. The duo doesn't simply block it

B. He can even gather the energy to unleash the attack before he gets a blade in his face.



No, doing one uncontrolled blast of force lighting does NOT make you a master. Sorry.




Thats besides the point, a DBL is NOT the same thing as a SBL, All of the movements for every form will be different, thus Bane hasn't seen anything on Anakin or Obi Wans level of mastery of these forms.



Using Maul as one example does not help your point. Why do mostly all Jedi and Sith masters prefer a SBL? Why does Mace Windu who has mastered and created a new style prefer a SBL? Why does Yoda, Sidious, Luke, Jacen, Revan and even Bane all use SBL's?

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And that means what exactly? The only reason he survived as long as he did was because he memorised all of Kas'im's moves, when Kas'im did something new he shit his pants, the only reason he was even able to win was because Kas'im took the time out of the duel to give a little speech, and not only that Kas'im BLOCKED(!) his "1337" force wave. So really whats your point? Neither his saber skills or his force powers beat Kas'im, it was his tactical thinking that did that, something Anakin (being damn near a military genius) has in abundance.
Kas'im is one of the most prodigous Saber duelists in Star Wars Saga. It was impressive for Bane to survive against such a vicious duelist.

And he was trained by Kas'im in Saber combat and became one of the best duelists of his age. He won't get WTFpwnd by Anakin and Obi-Wan in few seconds.

He can hold out in tough situations on his own by taking advantage of every chance he gets. This is what I mean't.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
So...Revans holocron didn't save him from getting his ass beat by Kas'im, Revans holocron didn't save him from having his force wave blocked. Whats your point? Revans holocron gives him an invisible advantage in battle? No, especially when doesn't even use ANY of the powers Revan "taught" him in an actual fight.
Do you think that Revan's holocron was a warrior machine that would save him?

He learned some techniques from Revan's holocron that would help him in later situations. But it is true that he did not wanted to try some dangerous offensive techniques that Revan knew. Still he gained some useful knowledge from it.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And Bane also has fought in some battles.

Random Sith Student #67
Sirak (twice)
Sirak and his buddies and would have lost had it not been for Githany
Kas'im
Qordris (it wasn't an actual fight)
The Orbalisk
Some Random bird.

Oh yes thats such an impressive resume
This is what happened in POD. Bane's story is not yet finished.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
He's neither equal or superior he's inferior. Plain and simple, He hasn't experienced HALF the things Anakin has. He has seen ONE master who has mastered the 7 styles on a Double Bladed Saber, thats nothing compared to Anakin who has seen mostly all forms of saber combat, is possibly the greatest Djem So master ever, he is proficient with Ataru and Shien, and as ROVD states he knows techniques, styles and forms from all forms of combat. Bane seeing one master does NOT compare.
Anakin's fight against Droids and Thugs is useless in this case. His fights against the Sith enemies is what that matters.

And if Bane can counter moves of a Double Bladed Saber in combat from one of the most prodigous Saber Duelists, then why can't he counter moves of a Single Blade Saber?

Kas'im was no less then Anakin in Saber Skills. And Double Bladed Saber is more difficult to counter then a Single Blade one.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No its not, Anakin went from being a joke compared to Dooku to having Dooku kneeling at his feet with his hands cut off in 3 years, to dismiss the advantage of time to train and prepare is completely ridicules, Anakin and Obi Wan went from being an ineffective fighting pair divided by Anakins arrogance to one of the most powerful duos ever in Star Wars who knew each other inside and out.
Advantage of Djem So style over Makashi style is what helped Anakin in over-powering Dooku. And still that unbreakable pair of Anakin and Obi-Wan was broken by Dooku in that fight. Not very compelling indeed.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Bane learned techniques...big whoop, in his one chance to shine and show off all his new leet Sith powers he learned from Revan what does he do? Does a straight duel and a force wave. Oh yes SOOOO impressive, tell me please what powers has Revan taught Bane that will be effective in this combat situation? None you can name with out pulling shit out your ass.
That Force Wave managed to collapse the entire Rakatan Temple, which is not joke.

And Drew did not mentioned that what specific powers Bane learned from Revan. Instead he only hinted that Bane got some useful training from Revan's holocron. Logic dictates that this training changed his perceptions and also made him more powerful.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
So...
So this fight was a major lesson for Bane and from such a vicious experience, he reformed himself further.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Yeah, considering that he would have spammed them against Kas'im if he could pull this off, and not only that it was such a direct clumsy display of power that it was easily blocked with in a second of seeing the attack. Then we have the fact that he took a good 5 or so seconds to gather the energy to even do the attack, again he's not spamming these. If Bane takes even half a second to attempt this he'll be dead, The duo almost killed Dooku within a second because he lost focus.
Kas'im was also very strong in the Force. But this does not means that Anakin and Obi-Wan would be also able to block a Force attack of this magnitude.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Your assuming:

A. The duo doesn't simply block it

B. He can even gather the energy to unleash the attack before he gets a blade in his face.
The duo could not defend against Force Push and we are talking about Force Wave here. Can you notice the difference of intensity between these two Force moves?

And you are assuming that Obi-Wan and Anakin will continously batter on Bane. This is not the case.

Just watch that how Dooku defended against attacks of this Duo and then manage to split them in few seconds.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No, doing one uncontrolled blast of force lighting does NOT make you a master. Sorry.
This is not an arguement. He could generate Force Lightning to a much higher magnitude, which can be a threat to non-suspecting victims.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Thats besides the point, a DBL is NOT the same thing as a SBL, All of the movements for every form will be different, thus Bane hasn't seen anything on Anakin or Obi Wans level of mastery of these forms.
DBL is more difficult to counter then SBL. Bane can counter SBL based attacks as well. It is not that he will be pwned in just few seconds.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Using Maul as one example does not help your point. Why do mostly all Jedi and Sith masters prefer a SBL? Why does Mace Windu who has mastered and created a new style prefer a SBL? Why does Yoda, Sidious, Luke, Jacen, Revan and even Bane all use SBL's?
Ok! how about Exar Kun and Bastilla?

And their are some more. DBL is weilded by those who are very well versed in its fighting style.

Darth Subjekt
As far as Yoda goes, he's the greatest foe the darkside has ever known, and much in part to his experience. Now being that he has mastered his craft enough to train others for over 800 years, it purely logical to assume that he has had many encounters in which to learn himself. So to say the Grandmaster leader of the most powerful Jedi order (save for NJO's god like council) has little experience or that his age is irrelevant, is ludicrous and borders the line of idiocy.

Saying that Kas'Im is better than Maul, Jinn, and Grevious is irrelevant, because so were all the people that beat them. Even if OB1 used the darkside to win, it doesn't matter. If you want to use that as an excuse, its the same as saying the only reason Bane won if because of his memory of Kas'Ims dueling steps. The fact is, it doesn't matter what he used, he won. maul is dead and OB1 lives on to defeat GG, who would of won by saber anyway judging by the way he was hacking off GG's hands.

Then you say that a force push can send an opponent flying away. Well why wouldn't Ani and Ob1 be able to do the same? Last i checked they both had the force and were pretty damn good at it.

xxXAcStylesXxx
What don't you get about he knew him inside out? No matter how many adjectives you use to describe Kas'im it wont change this fact. Bane trained with Kas'im for endless hours, thats why he was able to counter and stay in the game with Kas'im for that long, thats why when Kas'im broke out a new style that Bane had never seen he got shitted on. And big whoop Kas'im is one of the best, so is Yoda, Mace, Anakin, and Obi Wan, Obi Wan of whom can block 16 strikes per second.


Key Word: Of his age, the New Sith were jokes, as Bane himself even says "The Dark Side is being spread to thin" thus it was making them very weak. Now compare that to the CW Jedi who are stated as being "The Golden Age of the Jedi" they lived in an era were people like Mace WIndu who not only did was Kas'im did "Mastering styles" but created a brand new one, and HE even thinks Anakin is likely stronger then him.



Oh great so he's like every other above average duelist ever.




No, but you seem to.



Tell me what he learned, exactly. Oh thats right...you can't. Because your just pulling shit out your ass. He had his chance to show of his new sith powers in his duel with Kas'im and the only thing he did was a force wave.




Yeah and he could have sat on his ass for the rest of his days till Zahnah aced him, by your logic The Exile is the most powerful, uber supreme being ever...you want me to prove it? Well her story isn't finished yet so she'll become that cause I wish it to happen.



Are you serious? Experience in battle matters, living in a constant state of life or death, having to make on the battle field decisions all that battle hardening was one of the reasons Anakin went from a whiny ***** with a frilly braid to a warrior capable of annihilating masters of the force in 8 seconds.

Even still Anakin has more experience in actual dueling situations, look at all the powerful people he has to spar with, Mace, Obi Wan, Cin, the countless other Jedi, then we have the people who's he's dueled like Ventress, Dooku and Durge, Durge being one of the most physically powerful people in the SW universe has killed numerous Jedi AND Sith and moves so fast he told Obi Wan it seemed as if he moving in slow motion. Bane doesn't compare.



Because there not the same. they don't have the same movements forms or sets. If anything a staff user is slower in there movements then a single hilt user, because of the limited movement and such, compare how fast Maul was moving in TMP to how fast Anakin v Obi Wan was, Maul moves like a slug in comparison.



Anakin would murk Kas'im, And no its really not, Obi Wan Kenobi as a padawan can defend it, Vader defended the movements and even broke Mauls staff. If anything the staff is more cumbersome to its user, hence why mostly ALL Jedi and Sith don't use it.




You've had this argument crushed so many times why do you keep bringing it up? It was NOT the only factor




And when they did get broken up they were back together in seconds, and the only reason Dooku got such a large gap of time was because he had the Destroyer Droids to tie Obi Wan up with, Bane does not.


That Kas'im blocked.



And yet he performed no NEW! and EXCITING! Sith powers in his only life or death duel. Logic dictates that he didn't learn anything from Revans holocron that could help in a one on one situation.



And you would know this how? I'm glad to know you now speak for characters.




Your basing this off what?




No Obi Wan could not defend against. Force charged boot in the face which only made him madder.



Do you not read? BANE NEEDED TO CHARGE THE ATTACK. He can't spam them out over and over, SO while he's trying to charge the attacked he'd get a blade in his mouth.



Then what will happen? Will Bane shoot magic force waves out his ass?



Again that was Obi Wan, and this is "Crystal Clear" Anakin, Bane diverts his attention away for a second and he'd get a blade in his face.



Does that make him a master? No. Shooting lighting ONE time does NOT make you a master.




Based on what? Again, he may be able to beat a sith student, but not someone like Anakin who is possibly the greatest Djem So master ever.



Big whoop two more, compared to what THOUSANDS of Jedi and Sith. Really...

S_W_LeGenD
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
What don't you get about he knew him inside out? No matter how many adjectives you use to describe Kas'im it wont change this fact. Bane trained with Kas'im for endless hours, thats why he was able to counter and stay in the game with Kas'im for that long, thats why when Kas'im broke out a new style that Bane had never seen he got shitted on. And big whoop Kas'im is one of the best, so is Yoda, Mace, Anakin, and Obi Wan, Obi Wan of whom can block 16 strikes per second.
But does Anakin and Obi-Wan know Bane from inside out? No!

Did they ever faced Bane and know about his fighting style? No!

Same goes for Bane. So surprises can be expected from both sides.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Key Word: Of his age, the New Sith were jokes, as Bane himself even says "The Dark Side is being spread to thin" thus it was making them very weak. Now compare that to the CW Jedi who are stated as being "The Golden Age of the Jedi" they lived in an era were people like Mace WIndu who not only did was Kas'im did "Mastering styles" but created a brand new one, and HE even thinks Anakin is likely stronger then him.
Their were some better fighters in his age as well. Kaan and Kas'im were among the notables. Bane was trained by Lord Kas'im and became a good Saber duelist as a result.

Still I said that Bane < Anakin in Saber Skills. So you don't need to tell me that how good was Anakin. And it will be not WTFpwnage for Bane when he faces Anakin.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Oh great so he's like every other above average duelist ever.
Much better then average duelist of his age.


Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No, but you seem to.
No! I did not mean't it this way.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Tell me what he learned, exactly. Oh thats right...you can't. Because your just pulling shit out your ass. He had his chance to show of his new sith powers in his duel with Kas'im and the only thing he did was a force wave.
It depends upon the situation that whether Bane will unleash a certain feat or not and what feat will he unleash. He unleashed one useful feat in case of his fight against Kas'im and boom, game was over.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Yeah and he could have sat on his ass for the rest of his days till Zahnah aced him, by your logic The Exile is the most powerful, uber supreme being ever...you want me to prove it? Well her story isn't finished yet so she'll become that cause I wish it to happen.
You are taking things out of proportion in this case. What I said is that we don't know the full story of Bane yet. We don't know that how many more enemies will he face in the next story. Same goes for Exile and Revan.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Are you serious? Experience in battle matters, living in a constant state of life or death, having to make on the battle field decisions all that battle hardening was one of the reasons Anakin went from a whiny ***** with a frilly braid to a warrior capable of annihilating masters of the force in 8 seconds.
I know that experience in battle matters but it does not matters in a fight against a Jedi or a Sith. Your experience against a Jedi or Sith opponent will help you in this case.

And Anakin's victory over Dooku cannot be taken in to consideration against more powerful enemies. Defeating Bane will take more time.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Even still Anakin has more experience in actual dueling situations, look at all the powerful people he has to spar with, Mace, Obi Wan, Cin, the countless other Jedi, then we have the people who's he's dueled like Ventress, Dooku and Durge, Durge being one of the most physically powerful people in the SW universe has killed numerous Jedi AND Sith and moves so fast he told Obi Wan it seemed as if he moving in slow motion. Bane doesn't compare.
And Bane learned a lot from Kas'im, who is among the greatest Saber duelists of all times. This alone matters a lot.

And Bane is not < then Durge. He is physically strong, pumped up by orbalisks and is an exceptional warrior.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Because there not the same. they don't have the same movements forms or sets. If anything a staff user is slower in there movements then a single hilt user, because of the limited movement and such, compare how fast Maul was moving in TMP to how fast Anakin v Obi Wan was, Maul moves like a slug in comparison.
Maul was not so bad and was more acrobatic. Anakin was dominating however and thus I referred this as an over-powering factor of Anakin.

And Kas'im is superior to Maul by a large margin.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Anakin would murk Kas'im, And no its really not, Obi Wan Kenobi as a padawan can defend it, Vader defended the movements and even broke Mauls staff. If anything the staff is more cumbersome to its user, hence why mostly ALL Jedi and Sith don't use it.
Sorry! you don't know that Anakin could murk Kas'im.

And Obi-Wan in TPM was ready for Jedi Trials and he did well when he used "Anger" and "Rage" to influence his power against Maul. And Maul is not on par with Kas'im.

Kas'im and Exar Kun were excellent DBL Duelists.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
You've had this argument crushed so many times why do you keep bringing it up? It was NOT the only factor
I know but it was the main factor. Others were his Anger and Strength.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And when they did get broken up they were back together in seconds, and the only reason Dooku got such a large gap of time was because he had the Destroyer Droids to tie Obi Wan up with, Bane does not.
And still Dooku threw them away through his Force Mastery.

But again I forgot about the Droids. So you have a point and even before this, I have mentioned that Bane will be defeated in a pure Saber fight against the Duo of Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
That Kas'im blocked.
Force Mastery?

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And yet he performed no NEW! and EXCITING! Sith powers in his only life or death duel. Logic dictates that he didn't learn anything from Revans holocron that could help in a one on one situation.
Revan's holocron did contained knowledge of some very dangerous techniques that could be useful. But Bane chose to learn those that he considered reasonable for him.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
And you would know this how? I'm glad to know you now speak for characters.
You think that Bane did not gained anything from that fight? How about experience?


Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Your basing this off what?
Obervations from the movies.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No Obi Wan could not defend against. Force charged boot in the face which only made him madder.
I did not get this?

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Do you not read? BANE NEEDED TO CHARGE THE ATTACK. He can't spam them out over and over, SO while he's trying to charge the attacked he'd get a blade in his mouth.
I will concede this one.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Then what will happen? Will Bane shoot magic force waves out his ass?
Anakin and Obi-Wan are not machines. They can make mistakes as well.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Again that was Obi Wan, and this is "Crystal Clear" Anakin, Bane diverts his attention away for a second and he'd get a blade in his face.
I already said before that if Bane does not gets the chance to resort to his Force Mastery, then he will be destroyed.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Does that make him a master? No. Shooting lighting ONE time does NOT make you a master.
It shows his potential however.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Based on what? Again, he may be able to beat a sith student, but not someone like Anakin who is possibly the greatest Djem So master ever.
I said before that Bane < Anakin in Saber Skills.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Big whoop two more, compared to what THOUSANDS of Jedi and Sith. Really...
And those two were adept to DBL style compared to those THOUSANDS who were not.

Really...

xxXAcStylesXxx
yeah they kinda do.



Hey, guess what style Bane uses...Djem So....guess who is possibly the greatest master of Djem So ever....Anakin...guess who knows how to defend Djem So like its the back of his hand...Obi Wan. The Duo already know Banes style front to back, and Anakin knows it MUCH better then he does.




Oh, wow you put one extra on the list...the era sucked. For Jedi and Sith.



Your trying to make this out like Bane can just do the Force Wave whenever he wants, he has to leave himself vulnerable to charge it and then hope the user doesn't block it.

But this is irrelevant, tell what force powers did Revan teach Bane that are useful in a fight.



Exactly so you can't assume anything, thats why claiming he has more experience then is shown is false.




Yes it can, if he can do that to Dooku and turn his entire life into a utter joke, and he can murk Cin Drallig with one hand, he will most certainly be able to take on and beat Bane.




And Anakin is one of the greatest duelist ever. Adding Obi Wan is OverKill.



Durge is stronger, probably faster and has lived 2000+ years and fought and killed more Jedi and Sith then Bane could dream of.



But Anakin with a SBL was faster. The Point.



Sorry! Yeah I do.



So...



So...



So...does that mean they could move faster then a equally skilled SBL user.




It wasn't the style it was his raw power.



No, he threw OBI WAN, then proceeded to get owned by Anakin



Your assuming Anakin can't block his force attacks, that they won't be all over him, that the moment he tries an attack such as the force wave (which requires gathered energy) that he WONT get a blade in his face.




Such as...



And you know this how? I was under the impression he was jotting everything Revan said down whether he could perform it or not.



The experience of learning how not to be pwned by Juyo?




I meant to put Anakin, it should have read " A boot to Anakins face only made him madder."




Accept for they trained together for over 1000 hours, they know each other "more intimately then lovers." they are described as THE Jedi team, the best. I highly doubt after all that they'd slip up.




He'll get destroyed either way, the only way he could win is if he was on a podium 50 feet away from the two and spamming force powers.




Irrelevant. He is not a master, as you asserted.




Duh.



And Githany and Lumiya are adept at a lightwhip compared to the thousands who are not and yet they'd still get shitted on against the top dogs, and most of the middle tier.



Yes really.

zephiel7

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