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Anakin and Obi Wan move in, move around the corner, wary of any surprises. Anakin had grown into a strong man by this point, but he was still worried about the upcoming fight against the old Jedi turned Sith, the malevolent Count Dooku.

OBI-WAN: (quietly to Anakin) This time we will do it together.

ANAKIN: I was about to say that.

COUNT DOOKU jumps down to the main level.

PALPATINE: Get help! You're no match for him. He's a Sith Lord.

OBI-WAN: Chancellor Palpatine, Sith Lords are our specialty.

OBI-WAN and ANAKIN throw off their cloaks and ignite their lightsabers.

COUNT DOOKU: Your swords, please, Master Jedi. We don't want to make a---

A lightsaber flies in the air and disembowels dread lord Tyrannus before he could finish his sentence.

Anakin and Obi wan are bewildered at the sight before them.

PALPATINE: You, you're...

BANE: No Palpatine, speak not my name. A greater power than either you or I has pit me against these two Jedi. He calls himself Zephiel7, the ruler of all, but master of none.

ZEPHIEL7: FIGHT FOOLS AND AMUSE ME!!!!!!

So who wins?

Anakin is crystal clear, Obi Wan cuts into Soresu.

Bane removes his cloak.

I wont be around to post a worthwile reply, but probably 4 days from now I can come with an argument.

I say Bane.

Anakin and Obi-wan. There's not much else to say.

Originally posted by zephiel7

COUNT DOOKU: Your swords, please, Master Jedi. We don't want to make a---

A lightsaber flies in the air and disembowels dread lord Tyrannus before he could finish his sentence.

I'd say Anakin *crystal clear* alone is enough to beat Bane in a straight up duel, adding Obi Wan is overkill.

Bane destroys them. The jedi's best bet is to force a saber duel, and Bane will still destroy them.

1. He's pretty much mastered the saber staff to the same degree that Kas'im has; he knows every move and sequence perfectly. So if Bane gets a saber staff, technically speaking, he's far more gifted than either Anakin or Obi-Wan. He can also switch up between the different moves and combos of each form, giving him a somewhat unique style.

2. His speed is far beyond these two, considering he was able to move faster than the eyes of trained force users could see, 'so fast that it seemed like time had stopped for them'. And this was before BotS, where he grows far more powerful in the force and where he gains the orbalisk armour (both would improve his speed), Anakin and Obi-Wan weren't anywhere near that fast going by the movies.

3. His physical strength was beastly, he was 6"4' and he was described as a 'mountain of muscle'.

4. His skill was so great that it granted him the ability to beat Kas'im aka the greatest technical saber duelist ever, on equal ground. Again, this was before BotS.

5. His orbalisk armour constantly strengthens his muscles and keeps them flexed, they inject darkside energies inside his body, filling him with fury which can be channeled into his muscles to make him stronger and faster, and they constantly pump him up with adrenaline, keeping him hyped up to the max. They also heal wounds instantaneously.

6. The Orbalisk armour is completely resistant to the cutting power of a lightsaber, and protects Bane's entire body perfectly, except his face.

In other words, Bane is much more technically gifted than either of these duelists, he is far more skilled, he's far quicker, far stronger, and he possesses armour which heals non lethal wounds instantaneously, and almost makes him invincible to physical damage in this scenario. The Jedi Duo get owned, bad.

Originally posted by allfg
Bane destroys them. The jedi's best bet is to force a saber duel, and Bane will still destroy them.

1. He's pretty much mastered the saber staff to the same degree that Kas'im has; he knows every move and sequence perfectly. So if Bane gets a saber staff, technically speaking, he's far more gifted than either Anakin or Obi-Wan. He can also switch up between the different moves and combos of each form, giving him a somewhat unique style.

2. His speed is far beyond these two, considering he was able to move faster than the eyes of trained force users could see, 'so fast that it seemed like time had stopped for them'. And this was before BotS, where he grows far more powerful in the force and where he gains the orbalisk armour (both would improve his speed), Anakin and Obi-Wan weren't anywhere near that fast going by the movies.

3. His physical strength was beastly, he was 6"4' and he was described as a 'mountain of muscle'.

4. His skill was so great that it granted him the ability to beat Kas'im aka the greatest technical saber duelist ever, on equal ground. Again, this was before BotS.

5. His orbalisk armour constantly strengthens his muscles and keeps them flexed, they inject darkside energies inside his body, filling him with fury which can be channeled into his muscles to make him stronger and faster, and they constantly pump him up with adrenaline, keeping him hyped up to the max. They also heal wounds instantaneously.

6. The Orbalisk armour is completely resistant to the cutting power of a lightsaber, and protects Bane's entire body perfectly, except his face.

In other words, Bane is much more technically gifted than either of these duelists, he is far more skilled, he's far quicker, far stronger, and he possesses armour which heals non lethal wounds instantaneously, and almost makes him invincible to physical damage in this scenario. The Jedi Duo get owned, bad.

Wrong.

1. You're describing Kas'im. Bane doesn't use a saber staff, he has just fought against one. So has Obi Wan. So has Anakin. No biggie. And He only knows the patterns he was taught. He doesn't know everything ever, and, he's not even fighting a saber staff. He's fighting two opponents with a lot of synergy. It'll be tougher than one practitioner with two lightsabers, and, when Kas'im brought ut a new style, he got his ass kicked.

2. No way. Do you know who Anakin is? And the armor might just weigh him down.

3. He was undeniably strong, but Kenobi has faced Durge, who is stronger, and won, while Anakins strength isn't to be underestimated.

4. Kas'im has one hyperbole to his name. He isn't a God. He couldn't do things that someone like Mace or Yoda could.

5. Bane is quite a contender.

6. Like I said, Bane is tough, he's just going to lose his face.


And just for the record:

Obi Wan "is respected throughout the Jedi Order for his insight as well as his warrior skill. He has become the hero of the next generation of Padawans; he is the Jedi their Masters hold up as a model. He is the being that the Council assigns to their most important missions. He is modest, centered, and always kind.
He is the ultimate Jedi. "

Anakin is "The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.
He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it. "

A breif example of Obi and Anakins' synergy: "He threw himself spinning up and away from the two Jedi to land on the situation table, disengaging for a moment to recover his composure-that had been entirely too close-but by the time his boots touched down Kenobi was there to meet him, blade weaving through a defensive velocity so bewilderingly fast that Dooku dared not even try a strike; he threw a feint toward Kenobi's face, then dropped and spun in a reverse ankle-sweep- But not only did Kenobi easily overleap this attack, Dooku nearly lost his own foot to a slash from Skywalker who had again come out of nowhere and now carved through the table so that it collapsed under Dooku's weight and dumped the Sith Lord un-:eremoniously to the floor. This was not in the plan. Skywalker slammed his following strike down so hard that the shock of deflecting it buckled Dooku's elbows. Dooku threw himself into a backroll that brought him to his feet-and Kenobi's blade was there to meet his neck. Only a desperate whirling slash-block, coupled with a wheel kick that caught Kenobi on the thigh, bought him enough time to leap away again, and when he touched down- Skywalker was already there. "

"Skywalker came on, mechanically inexorable, impossibly powerful, a destroyer droid with a lightsaber: each step a blow and each blow a step. Dooku backed away as fast as he dared; Skywalker stayed right on top of him. Dooku's breath went short and hard. He no longer tried to block Skywalker's strikes but only to guide them slanting away; he could not meet Skywalker strength-to-strength-not only did the boy wield tremendous reserves of Force energy, but his sheer physical power was astonishing- "

" was a Djem So stylist, and as fine a one as Dooku had ever seen."

Dooku got away from Anakin "Only to find himself again facing the wheel of blue lightning that was Kenobi's blade."

"Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper, and when Dooku felt Skywalker regain his feet and stride once more toward his back, he finally registered the source of that blinding defensive velocity Kenobi had used a moment ago, and only then, belatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and Shii-Cho had been ploys, as well.
Kenobi had become a master of Soresu. "

"The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-
Skywalker was getting stronger.
Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.
He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again...stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher
ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.
That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze and now Kenobi was back in the picture: with a shout of the Force, he shot like a torpedo up the stairs behind Skywalker..."

"He understood how Skywalker was getting stronger. Why he no longer spoke. How he had become a machine of battle. He
understood why Sidious had been so interested in him for so long.
Skywalker was a natural.
There was a thermonuclear furnace where his heart should be, and it was burning through the firewalls of his Jedi training. He held the Force in the clench of a white-hot fist. He was half Sith already, and he didn't even know it.
This boy had the gift of fury. "

Anakin and Dooku "stood nearly toe-to-toe, blades flashing faster than the eye could see..."

"Anakin's mind is clear as a crystal bell.
In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do.
Decide.
So he does.
He decides to win.
He decides that Dooku should lose the same hand he took. Decision is reality, here: his blade moves simultaneously with his will and blue fire vaporizes black Corellian nanosilk and disintegrates flesh and shears bone, and away falls a Sith Lord's lightsaber hand, trailing smoke that tastes of charred meat and burned hair. The hand falls with a bar of scarlet blaze still extending from its spastic death grip, and Anakin's heart sings for the fall of that red blade."

I don't feel like quotesnatching anymore... I'll have more later...

Yeah, Sith'Ari's wrong as usual. bane loses and hard

Originally posted by jollyjim311
Wrong.

1. You're describing Kas'im. Bane doesn't use a saber staff, he has just fought against one. So has Obi Wan. So has Anakin. No biggie. And He only knows the patterns he was taught. He doesn't know everything ever, and, he's not even fighting a saber staff. He's fighting two opponents with a lot of synergy. It'll be tougher than one practitioner with two lightsabers, and, when Kas'im brought ut a new style, he got his ass kicked.

2. No way. Do you know who Anakin is? And the armor might just weigh him down.

3. He was undeniably strong, but Kenobi has faced Durge, who is stronger, and won, while Anakins strength isn't to be underestimated.

4. Kas'im has one hyperbole to his name. He isn't a God. He couldn't do things that someone like Mace or Yoda could.

5. Bane is quite a contender.

6. Like I said, Bane is tough, he's just going to lose his face.


And just for the record:

Obi Wan "is respected throughout the Jedi Order for his insight as well as his warrior skill. He has become the hero of the next generation of Padawans; he is the Jedi their Masters hold up as a model. He is the being that the Council assigns to their most important missions. He is modest, centered, and always kind.
He is the ultimate Jedi. "

Anakin is "The most powerful Jedi of his generation. Perhaps of any generation. The fastest. The strongest. An unbeatable pilot. An unstoppable warrior. On the ground, in the air or sea or space, there is no one even close. He has not just power, not just skill, but dash: that rare, invaluable combination of boldness and grace.
He is the best there is at what he does. The best there has ever been. And he knows it. "

A breif example of Obi and Anakins' synergy: "He threw himself spinning up and away from the two Jedi to land on the situation table, disengaging for a moment to recover his composure-that had been entirely too close-but by the time his boots touched down Kenobi was there to meet him, blade weaving through a defensive velocity so bewilderingly fast that Dooku dared not even try a strike; he threw a feint toward Kenobi's face, then dropped and spun in a reverse ankle-sweep- But not only did Kenobi easily overleap this attack, Dooku nearly lost his own foot to a slash from Skywalker who had again come out of nowhere and now carved through the table so that it collapsed under Dooku's weight and dumped the Sith Lord un-:eremoniously to the floor. This was not in the plan. Skywalker slammed his following strike down so hard that the shock of deflecting it buckled Dooku's elbows. Dooku threw himself into a backroll that brought him to his feet-and Kenobi's blade was there to meet his neck. Only a desperate whirling slash-block, coupled with a wheel kick that caught Kenobi on the thigh, bought him enough time to leap away again, and when he touched down- Skywalker was already there. "

"Skywalker came on, mechanically inexorable, impossibly powerful, a destroyer droid with a lightsaber: each step a blow and each blow a step. Dooku backed away as fast as he dared; Skywalker stayed right on top of him. Dooku's breath went short and hard. He no longer tried to block Skywalker's strikes but only to guide them slanting away; he could not meet Skywalker strength-to-strength-not only did the boy wield tremendous reserves of Force energy, but his sheer physical power was astonishing- "

" was a Djem So stylist, and as fine a one as Dooku had ever seen."

Dooku got away from Anakin "Only to find himself again facing the wheel of blue lightning that was Kenobi's blade."

"Kenobi met every one of his thrusts without so much as moving his feet, staying perfectly centered, perfectly balanced, blade never moving a millimeter more than was necessary, deflecting without effort, riposting with flickering strikes and stabs swifter than the tongue of a Garollian ghost viper, and when Dooku felt Skywalker regain his feet and stride once more toward his back, he finally registered the source of that blinding defensive velocity Kenobi had used a moment ago, and only then, belatedly, did he understand that Kenobi's Ataro and Shii-Cho had been ploys, as well.
Kenobi had become a master of Soresu. "

"The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-
Skywalker was getting stronger.
Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.
He decided he'd best revise his strategy once again...stairs that led up to the entrance balcony. He retreated up them, using the higher
ground for leverage, but Skywalker just kept on coming, tirelessly ferocious.
That blue blade was everywhere, flashing and whirling faster and faster until Dooku saw the room through an electric haze and now Kenobi was back in the picture: with a shout of the Force, he shot like a torpedo up the stairs behind Skywalker..."

"He understood how Skywalker was getting stronger. Why he no longer spoke. How he had become a machine of battle. He
understood why Sidious had been so interested in him for so long.
Skywalker was a natural.
There was a thermonuclear furnace where his heart should be, and it was burning through the firewalls of his Jedi training. He held the Force in the clench of a white-hot fist. He was half Sith already, and he didn't even know it.
This boy had the gift of fury. "

Anakin and Dooku "stood nearly toe-to-toe, blades flashing faster than the eye could see..."

"Anakin's mind is clear as a crystal bell.
In that pristine clarity, there is only one thing he must do.
Decide.
So he does.
He decides to win.
He decides that Dooku should lose the same hand he took. Decision is reality, here: his blade moves simultaneously with his will and blue fire vaporizes black Corellian nanosilk and disintegrates flesh and shears bone, and away falls a Sith Lord's lightsaber hand, trailing smoke that tastes of charred meat and burned hair. The hand falls with a bar of scarlet blaze still extending from its spastic death grip, and Anakin's heart sings for the fall of that red blade."

I don't feel like quotesnatching anymore... I'll have more later...

i agree Anakin himself can defeat Bane, adding Obi-Wan is an overkill.

I don't think this is an overkill, but still, I think anakin with obi-wan should take this.

WRONG!

Bold, Cap locks and teh exclamation mark > you, I win.



The fact that he has never used one before doesn't change the fact that he knew every move and sequence there was to the blade. It's directly stated, so if given the blade, he would be able to wield it to the same effect.



He's directly stated to know every move and sequence for Kas'im's saber staff (which includes forms 1 to 7, and more, seeing as Kas'im furthered the forms). Unless you can prove that the 7 saber forms were furthered since that particular time period, you have no case.



That's great, it still didn't grant them the skill to take down Dooku together. In fact, Obi-Wan's very presence holds Anakin back.



This is relevant, how? Neither Obi-Wan or Anakin are as great a duelist as Kas'im, and neither use forms that Bane is unfamiliar with, so your point is?



No clue...
Please, just watch the movie, Anakin never displays exceptional speed whatsoever. Nothing that compares to what I just posted.



The armour's not even that heavy, I mean it's not like Vader's armour or anything; it's not bulky, and weighs like only 15 kgs tops, but sure, to a degree they would, however the advantages given in terms of speed far outweigh the disadvantages.



I'm not saying that Bane's strength alone grants him the win, I was just pointing out every attribute, and showing how Bane easily beats both of them in every way... But really, as strong as Durge was, he was nowhere near as skilled as Bane.



Not at all, but not quite on Bane's level.



That movie Mace and Yoda can do? Hell yes.



Understatement of the year.



Lol, sure thing.



You know, I will say this: I've always appreciated those nice posts of yours, they're very creative, and I give you mad props for them, but the thing is, we can perfectly see how skilled the movie characters are, based on..that's right, the movies aka the highest form of canon, and they don't match up to some of the non-movie powerhouses. EU material can never change that, because it can't possibly supersede the movies, which firmly puts characters like Anakin and Obi-Wan on a low level. And the passages that you posted from the novelisation fightscene are invalid anyways, as they directly contradict the movies. Really, the duo have no chance in hell.

And blah blah blah...Get over it. Bane is fighting two of the most skilled Jedi ever

Depends.

If Anakin is in "teh zone", then he - by himself - will defeat Bane in lightsaber combat without pushing himself to his limits. If not, they might win, but it'd be a lot harder.

You do realise that the whole "teh zone" argument is supported solely by an invalid novelisation fightscene, right?

Originally posted by allfg
You do realise that the whole "teh zone" argument is supported solely by an invalid novelisation fightscene, right?

No. It explains quite handily why Anakin was able to overcome Dooku.

I didn't dispute with how great the explanation was, all I'm saying is that the novelisation fightscene is 100% invalid, and thus so is the argument.

Originally posted by allfg
I didn't dispute with how great the explanation was, all I'm saying is that the novelisation fightscene is 100% invalid, and thus so is the argument.

That's not how it works. According to the interview with Mathew Stover provided by Lightsnake on EoD, everything that was in the novel was there "because Lucas wanted it to be there". Which means that the explanations - if not the exact choreography - and the narrative itself is still canon, which means that it still applies.

Thus, the argument is there.

I know that everyone consider the movies the best form of Canon but in this case perhaps we should look elsewhere since Banes feats are based on books which doesn't suffer from the problems of filming them like, the fast movement how would that look in a film a character moving so fast that none could see him.
These might sound dumb but it is only a suggestion since the feats in a movie and the feats in a book isn't comparable

I say Bane takes this. I mean, he's stronger than Dooku (I believe we will all agree on that, eve, Rampant Ox ) and we saw how Dooku fared against these two - he took Kenobi out, so Bane will too. However, as opposed to taunting Anakin and pissing him off, thus ending up dead, Bane will probably remain silent, as that's how he seems to normally fight, and also he won't be getting tired like Dooku was beause his Orbalisks supply him with an unlimited amount of adrenaline. So after taking out Kenobi he'll be able to beat Anakin.


btw, I loved the dialogue.

Originally posted by darthsith19
I say Bane takes this. I mean, he's stronger than Dooku (I believe we will all agree on that, eve, Rampant Ox ) and we saw how Dooku fared against these two - he took Kenobi out, so Bane will too. However, as opposed to taunting Anakin and pissing him off, thus ending up dead, Bane will probably remain silent, as that's how he seems to normally fight, and also he won't be getting tired like Dooku was beause his Orbalisks supply him with an unlimited amount of adrenaline. So after taking out Kenobi he'll be able to beat Anakin.


btw, I lobed the dialogue.

Now, this route, Sith'ari, would be a better one. I'd recommend arguing this.

That doesn't change the fact that anything which contradicts the movies is rendered invalid.

Which means that the explanations - if not the exact choreography - and the narrative itself is still canon, which means that it still applies.

Narrative dependant on invalid events is rendered invalid. That is the case here.

Oh, shut up. You don't decide what's canon or not. Hell, I could call PoD totally uncanon for its contradictions to previously established sources....your worthless hyperbole accounts for nothing

Except it doesn't work like that, newer sources > older souces. It's what the whole concept of retcon works under.

Provide source and page number.

Oh, waaaaait...you can't do SHIT.

Excuse me?

You heard me. You can't prove a thing you say, so you resort to stupid hypocrisy. "But...but, it's newer!"

Why should I trust your opinion when I have canon?

It's a well established fact that newer sources have the authority to overwrite older ones. Don't be annoying just for the sake of it.

Lol. That doesn't mena on expressions of power that's ambiguous and dependent on your opinion anyways.

It retconned Farfalla's survival....unless it stated Bane as the strongest? Means nothing

Could you explain why you think this is, Gideon? Anakin pulled off a rather unorthodox trick and took down Dooku in that instance, but can he also repeat the same trick against Bane? They are both Djem So practitioners. If I had to make a choice, backed up by facts, I would give Bane the strength and speed advantage due to his orbalisks pumping him constantly with “strength and adrenaline.” Anakin can’t flaunt the “kinetic energy” generated by his movements because Bane will be generating an equal if not more amount of “kinetic energy.”

Anakin’s only chance is to hit Bane on his only unprotected area; the face. Bane can strike Anakin in virtually any part of his body.
Even if Anakin manages to strike Bane’s face, he’ll have to make it count, since the orbalisks regenerate his tissue instantaneously. Otherwise, DarthSith and Nebaris have summarized most of the details rather well. Bane has demonstrated abilities (in BOTS and PoD) that surpass Anakin’s own considerable skills. If the comics that depicted the midget Yoda lifting a load of artillery can be taken seriously, then Bane’s connection to the force can enhance his physical strength and speed considerably as well.

Anakin’s force abilities are likewise on the level of Obi Wan. They were both caught in a “force lock,” neither one able to overcome the other. In certain one time instances he is able to do some nifty things with the force, but they are instinctual and cannot be relegated to a specific duel. Bane, I think it is rather obvious, is better at using the force offensively.

His only chance, IMO, is to team up with Kenobi.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Could you explain why you think this is, Gideon? Anakin pulled off a rather unorthodox trick and took down Dooku in that instance, but can he also repeat the same trick against Bane? They are both Djem So practitioners. If I had to make a choice, backed up by facts, I would give Bane the strength and speed advantage due to his orbalisks pumping him constantly with “strength and adrenaline.” Anakin can’t flaunt the “kinetic energy” generated by his movements because Bane will be generating an equal if not more amount of “kinetic energy.”
He didn't just beat Dooku by a trick...the moment Anakin gave in to his power and rage, I quote: "Dooku is dead: the rest is detail."
"Dooku realizes Anakin Skywalker is more powerful than he could have imagined."
Unless it comes down to amr wrestling, Bane's orbalisks mean nothing and Anakin can very easily go for his head with his very powerful robotic hand

Meaning...? Obi-wan's the best defensive duelist in millenia....and what has Bane done to surpass anakin? Can he collapse buildings with a scream? Can he tear apart super battle droids with his hands alone?
And don't insult Yoda. He exceeds Bane by a far amount. He's shown more than enough for that. moreover, if Anakin strikes Bane's face, it's cauterize instantly, destroying any regenerative ability, and the wound will be very likely fatal.

Nice to mention sabers can cut through any material in the galaxy. Orbalisks were never once tested in battle


Anakin is stronger than Kenobi, undeniable? Anakin's rage fully focused is the strongest in the galaxy and more than enough to rip through Bane's defenses

Originally posted by zephiel7
Could you explain why you think this is, Gideon? Anakin pulled off a rather unorthodox trick and took down Dooku in that instance, but can he also repeat the same trick against Bane? They are both Djem So practitioners. If I had to make a choice, backed up by facts, I would give Bane the strength and speed advantage due to his orbalisks pumping him constantly with “strength and adrenaline.” Anakin can’t flaunt the “kinetic energy” generated by his movements because Bane will be generating an equal if not more amount of “kinetic energy.”
What the hell do you mean random trick? Anakin became MORE powerful than Dooku when he tapped into the darkside, and he wtfpwned him, there was NO trick. And would you care to contest that Bane is somehow a better duelist than Dooku? How do you propose Bane is going to beat Anakin? By tiring him out, assuming Anakin can't by the orbalisks?


Bane has the advantage because he's well protected but Anakin is the better duelist. Bane has NOT demonstrated abilities that surpass Anakin's lightsaber skills. And are you also contesting that Bane's connection to the force is superior than the Chosen One's, cause if not, your point is moot.


Anakin's force abilities are on the level of Obiwan?? I guess you missed the part where he friend someone inside out with his anger and collapsed the temple. Sure looks like he's equal to Obiwan huh?


If it's a saber battle, Bane cannot win. In a force battle, the duo would take it with difficulty.

Your idea of strength is very narrow then. Strength includes everything from endurance, speed, and yes, sheer brawn. He is not going to just be able to “outmuscle” more, he is going to be faster and posses far, far more endurance.



Um, what am I supposed to say to this? Bane can strike anywhere on Anakin’s body with his arenaline enhanced reflexes and orbalisk enhanced strength?



Maybe he is. I never discredited old Ben in this area, he could probably prolong the duel for a while. If Bane decides to chuck him couple of hundred feet away, I don’t see how his defensive skills can really do the job.



Lots, IMHO. If you want me to reiterate something, just ask.



You are exaggerating Anakin’s abilities. Labyrinth never made mention of Anakin collapsing an entire building, only the rooftop of a hallway:

Dooku!" he howled. With such force and wrath that the ceiling of the vast hall began to collapse.

Moreover, that was a random "instinctual" display of Anakin’s power. That doesn’t mean he can perform it whenever he wants, otherwise the fight scenes in the movie and ROTS novelization would have been a lot more interesting.

This is in contrast to Bane, who was tired after a ”long lightsaber duel”, who was also kicked off of multiple flights of stairs, and who was trained for a comparitively less amount of time:


“I agree," Bane replied, hurling out the wave of Force energy he had been gathering during the Blademaster's speech.

There was nothing subtle about Bane's attack: The massive shock wave shook the very foundations of the great Rakatan Temple. The concussive blast had enough power to shatter every bone in Kas'im's body and pulverize his flesh into a mass of pulpy liquid. But at the last possible instant, he threw up a shield to protect himself from the attack.

Unfortunately, he couldn't shield the Temple around him. The walls exploded into great chunks of rubble. The archway collapsed into a shower of stone, burying Kas'im beneath tons of rock and mortar. A second later the rest of the roof caved in, drowning out the Twi'leks dying scream with a deafening rumble.

A bit better thanjust a ceiling IMO.



It shouldn’t really matter, since he isn’t fighting droids in this instance. But for shits and giggles, from everything else he’s shown, I’ll leave it at a probably.



What you mean that little green muppet? Nah, I think he’s okay, but I preferred him in his OT incarnation. The AOTC fight scene with him was unfortunately the only instance where a supposedly serious scene had me laughing my ass off. But the ROTS duel was pretty cool, I’ll give Yoda that.



Your opinion Lightsnake. Since I’ve chosen BOTS Bane, I’ve seen a bit more on his part than Yoda has shown me. Since I prefer to work with Lucas' own interpretation of his characters over mere secondary sources, what I’ve seen from Yoda contradicts your PoV.



A) He is not going to reach Bane’s face without getting a clear shot, which I find incredibly unlikely given Bane’s strength/speed advantage.
B) Bane was able to deflect Kas’im’s blows who was referred to as the “perfect weapon,” possibly “the greatest duelist of all time,” and a master who spent decades honing all of the seven forms of light saber fighting. Bane rendered his mastery useless in round one of their fight. Round two presented an advantage to Kas’im but a disadvantage to Bane because Kas’im knew Bane’s style of fighting, whereas Bane was unfamiliar with Kas’im’s.
C) Even if the lightsaber burns the surface tissue, it would regenerate instantly. That’s the magic of the Orbalisks. Bane even inflicted a deep wound on himself, but that regenerated instantaneously.

Bane on the other hand has an advantage here. A variety of areas on Anakin are available to be struck.



Bane basically swiped at them with his saber as hard as he could. Ultimately, not even a scratch was noticed.



Of course in the grand scheme of things, true, but not by ROTS. He couldn’t force push Obi Wan when they were both caught in a deadlock. Anakin is potentially the best, maybe, but I couldn’t give a shit LS. In practice, he never attained a state which you are keen on speculating.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Your idea of strength is very narrow then. Strength includes everything from endurance, speed, and yes, sheer brawn. He is not going to just be able to “outmuscle” more, he is going to be faster and posses far, far more endurance.
Anakin and Obi-wan do have those....unless you're gonna tell me Bane is stronger than durge-and please don't even try....Gen'Dai are about the strongest race in SW- than there really isn't much..


Just that Bane's vulnerability is a huge problem, especially when double teamed....he's not a defensive fighter


If Bane decided to do such, Anakin would get the killing hit in, or hold him off long enough for Ben to return.. If anakin decides to strike out with the force, Bane's in trouble



And Anakin's done a lot to surpass him



No, that was instinctive, but that is hardly discrediting him in the force department. Hell, look at him even after he was crippled. If he focused, especially in grip of fury?

Also, more focused, As Anakin's was not, and anakin had just come in after a battle and was most certainly not out of it there.



considering Anakin's physical strength and his robotic hand at least can deal with such droids...that is something for him



I'm afraid it's official-by Lucas's own intentions- of Yoda's power, actually...as shown below.
Oh, and you don't decide what's canon. The EU goes by official rules unless declared N-Canon. Oh, and you know who created Bane? George



You want to talk about Lucas's opinion, Zephiel? Ok, then:
In a message dated 7/19/2006 6:06:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, Debnath writes:


Oh, clarification, when you said Yoda was definitely on top, did you mean next to Kun and the Ancients?



Yes. I think that was George Lucas' intention.

TV



We have Matt Stover on record declaring Lucas himself approved the bit of Yoda's personal power, and his expressions of such in references...Apparently Lucas believes Yoda, at least up to that point is the most powerful Jedi and one of the two most powerful Force users....and Bane isn't there. You want what Stover says on the matter? Lucas LINE EDITED his book, word for word.

If you've seen more on Bane's part, you're remaining willfully blind to yoda's own achievments and the creator's own backing. Matt Stover puts Yoda on that level and the Dark side sourcebook, Visual Dictionaries, NEC and Heritage of the Sith put Palpatine-by that time- above Bane.
From stover on how detailed Lucas was:

Q: When you met with George Lucas, what did the two of you discuss?

MS: Mostly what I talked about above. I went into the meeting with a list of very detailed questions about "What was Master So & So thinking when he...?" and "Why, exactly, would Anakin want to..." I had a list of questions from Jim Luceno, too, relating to Labyrinth of Evil, and so we managed to get into quite a bit of the direct backstory -- the details of the relationship between the Lords of the Sith and exactly how and why the Separatists had set up the operation we see played out in the opening minutes of the film. And, of course, we spent quite a bit of time talking about the specifics of Anakin's fall -- what, exactly, drives him over the edge, when it happens, and what has led him to it. And, of course, we had to talk a bit about the dark side...


Q: What were Mr. Lucas's line-edits like? Was he a tough editor?

MS: Not tough so much as exceedingly detailed, though I suspect he would have been very tough indeed if I hadn't been quite so scrupulously faithful to the spirit of his story. I mean, he literally went over it word-by-word, even to the point of altering descriptives to adjust the characters' inflections.






bane has a speed advantage now? Obi-wan's the guy who can block 16 strikes a second at best, right?

A double bladed saber =/= a single bladed one. Moreover, Dooku was described as the greatest loss the Jedi ever suffered to the Dark Side, and Grievous was called the perfect weapon and Obi-wan tooled him...can Kas'im block 16 strikes a second now?

With a KNIFE. It doesn't cauterize or incinerate the cells. Regeneration in that case is impossible. Ever heard of the hydra?

And Anakin needs to score one hit on Bane's head with Obi-wan. And Bane'll die from that. the odds are better on Anakin and Obi's part, especially considering their teamwork tactics per ROTS



Same happened with Exar and Mandalorian iron at first. Not seeing it standing to several blows


By ROTs, Anakin is declared stronger. One force push when Anakin was unfocused means very, very little.

So, no, take it up with George.

1. Anakin naturally goes into "the zone". Dookus' taunts were to make Anakin realize what he was doing, and bring him out of it.
2. A shot to the face will kill Bane, don't try and BS around that.
3. It's actually 18 strikes per second, LS, that Obi Wan blocked. Once Greivous boosted it up to twenty, Obi changed strategy and took off a pair of his hands.

That's about it. I really don't see Bane winning this match... at all.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Anakin and Obi-wan do have those....unless you're gonna tell me Bane is stronger than durge-and please don't even try....Gen'Dai are about the strongest race in SW- than there really isn't much..


Just that Bane's vulnerability is a huge problem, especially when double teamed....he's not a defensive fighter


If Bane decided to do such, Anakin would get the killing hit in, or hold him off long enough for Ben to return.. If anakin decides to strike out with the force, Bane's in trouble



And Anakin's done a lot to surpass him



No, that was instinctive, but that is hardly discrediting him in the force department. Hell, look at him even after he was crippled. If he focused, especially in grip of fury?

Also, more focused, As Anakin's was not, and anakin had just come in after a battle and was most certainly not out of it there.



considering Anakin's physical strength and his robotic hand at least can deal with such droids...that is something for him



I'm afraid it's official-by Lucas's own intentions- of Yoda's power, actually...as shown below.
Oh, and you don't decide what's canon. The EU goes by official rules unless declared N-Canon. Oh, and you know who created Bane? George



You want to talk about Lucas's opinion, Zephiel? Ok, then:
In a message dated 7/19/2006 6:06:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, Debnath writes:


Oh, clarification, when you said Yoda was definitely on top, did you mean next to Kun and the Ancients?



Yes. I think that was George Lucas' intention.

TV



We have Matt Stover on record declaring Lucas himself approved the bit of Yoda's personal power, and his expressions of such in references...Apparently Lucas believes Yoda, at least up to that point is the most powerful Jedi and one of the two most powerful Force users....and Bane isn't there. You want what Stover says on the matter? Lucas LINE EDITED his book, word for word.

If you've seen more on Bane's part, you're remaining willfully blind to yoda's own achievments and the creator's own backing. Matt Stover puts Yoda on that level and the Dark side sourcebook, Visual Dictionaries, NEC and Heritage of the Sith put Palpatine-by that time- above Bane.
From stover on how detailed Lucas was:

Q: When you met with George Lucas, what did the two of you discuss?

MS: Mostly what I talked about above. I went into the meeting with a list of very detailed questions about "What was Master So & So thinking when he...?" and "Why, exactly, would Anakin want to..." I had a list of questions from Jim Luceno, too, relating to Labyrinth of Evil, and so we managed to get into quite a bit of the direct backstory -- the details of the relationship between the Lords of the Sith and exactly how and why the Separatists had set up the operation we see played out in the opening minutes of the film. And, of course, we spent quite a bit of time talking about the specifics of Anakin's fall -- what, exactly, drives him over the edge, when it happens, and what has led him to it. And, of course, we had to talk a bit about the dark side...


Q: What were Mr. Lucas's line-edits like? Was he a tough editor?

MS: Not tough so much as exceedingly detailed, though I suspect he would have been very tough indeed if I hadn't been quite so scrupulously faithful to the spirit of his story. I mean, he literally went over it word-by-word, even to the point of altering descriptives to adjust the characters' inflections.






bane has a speed advantage now? Obi-wan's the guy who can block 16 strikes a second at best, right?

A double bladed saber =/= a single bladed one. Moreover, Dooku was described as the greatest loss the Jedi ever suffered to the Dark Side, and Grievous was called the perfect weapon and Obi-wan tooled him...can Kas'im block 16 strikes a second now?

With a KNIFE. It doesn't cauterize or incinerate the cells. Regeneration in that case is impossible. Ever heard of the hydra?

And Anakin needs to score one hit on Bane's head with Obi-wan. And Bane'll die from that. the odds are better on Anakin and Obi's part, especially considering their teamwork tactics per ROTS



Same happened with Exar and Mandalorian iron at first. Not seeing it standing to several blows


By ROTs, Anakin is declared stronger. One force push when Anakin was unfocused means very, very little.

So, no, take it up with George.

I hereby award Lightsnake, Bane Killer Award.

Have what? I am assuming you mean strength, speed, and endurance to the level of Bane? As if. They are strong Jedi in their own right, but there is no evidence stating they are physically stronger or faster than Bane.



Unknown. I don’t know much about Durge, but the possibility exists that Bane could be stronger, based on the fact that he has the force to channel into his muscles, and he has orbalisks to give him strength. I withhold judgment until I see more of Bane or Durge.



It won’t matter if he disposes of Obi Wan aka Dooku style. Dooku easily launched Obi Wan a sizable distance.

(ROTS)He gathered the Force once more in a single indrawn breath that summoned power from throughout the universe; the slightest whipcrack of that power, negligent as a flick of his wrist, sent Kenobi flying backward to crash hard against the wall

We can see clearly that Bane is Dooku’s superior with respect to force attacks. He could easily remove Obi Wan from the fight if he’s smart (which he is). Meanwhile, Anakin’s saber would get deflected by Orbalisks or Bane’s lightsaber if he manages to close in.

Bane was able to instantly kill a powerful master of his age.

(PoD)"And therein lies the problem." Bane lashed out with the dark side, seizing Qordis in an immobilizing, crushing grip. His opponent tried to protect himself, throwing up a field to deflect the incoming assault, but Bane's attack tore through the pitiful defense, wiping it away as if it hadn't even been there.

A final push with his mind tightened the invisible vise. Qordis let out a final scream, but with no air in his lungs, it came out only as a rattling gasp that was lost beneath he snapping and crackling of his bones.

Just by how badly he pwned Qordis, I am seeing a similar turn of events with Obi Wan, since Dooku who’s power in the force has always been shown and described as less than Bane’s was able “rag doll” Kenobi.

Furthermore, when was it stated that Bane was bad at defensive fighting?

“His weapon became an extension of the Force, and he responded to the Twi’lek’s unstoppable attack with an impenetrable defense.”

This quote seems to discredit your point. He was very effectively defending against Kas’im’s onslaught.



Pray tell, how? As I have shown above, Bane is certainly no slouch in defensive combat. He is heavily armoured, and is limiting Anakin’s range of motion. All of Anakins attacks become predictable.

It becomes:

1.“Whoa, gotta watch for the face.”

2. “Oh shit… he’s going for the face”

3. “Let me guess, the face?”

4. “*yawn*”




Prove up. I am finding difficulty in wrapping my mind around the fact that Anakin, in the height of his fury, who was unable to beat Obi Wan in a “push” deadlock, can put Bane in “big trouble.”



What? A scream that was instinctive and happened incidentally only once in his entire career? This is somehow superior to Bane who managed to total a little more than a simple rooftop despite sustaining serious injuries and fatigue?



The point is Lightsnake, he has never reached a point where he can focus his potential to actually perform the technique whenever he wants. The reason I’ve been saying its instinctual is precisely that. He doesn’t have a decent grip on his little surges of power. Otherwise, at the peak of his fury he could have easily ripped apart Obi Wan. We are getting into idle speculation on what Anakin can or can’t do, with little proof.



More focused? Dude, Bane was just launched down a couple of flights of stairs and was incredibly fatigued.



No doubt, but this still does not place him above Bane in strength.

Force users are easily capable of such displays of physical power. Ulic Qel Droma was able to cleave through Mandalore’s weapon with a simple dagger. Exar Kun lifted a senator and crushed his skull.

These things aren’t exactly Anakin’s accomplishments alone. Bane was also possessed of extreme physical strength. The orbalisks only added to that. BoTS proves this.



Certainly, but I see Lucas’ own interpretation from the movie’s as the be all and end all with respect to his characters. Surely you do not disagree on that?


Your point?




Is Bane Kun? Not quite? Is he an ancient Sith, not quite either.




I read the ROTS novelization, nothing in their stated that Palpatine was in combat sense the strongest Sith until that point. I remember poetics in the novel, but nothing that definitively proving him the strongest.



All of the above sources that you described do not possess the level of authority of Lucas’ movies or his novelizations. His movies portray Yoda’s abilities as being inferior to Bane’s (as per BoTS and PoD.) The novelization hyperbolizes Yoda as "one of the strongest foes the darkness has ever seen"; but that can be interpreted as poetics given the descriptions of Yoda’s powers in ROTS movie. When the highest form of canon (the movies) does not make any mention of Yoda being superior to Bane (through narrative, special effects, or choreography), but depicts him in combat as being inferior, then we are being truest to Lucas’ intent by not assuming as much.



We’ve seen passages depicting how fast Bane was moving. “Time seemed to stop” and his movements were “faster than the eyes can see”.

And as for Obi Wan blocking sixteen strikes per second, can you show me your source? More importantly, how does that prevent him from being hurled into a wall, or crushed?



So? Bane used a single bladed lightsaber. I think he is pretty knowledgeable in how one works.



Yes he was a great loss to the Jedi, but if you are using this to establish that he is greater than Kas’im, its not working since Kas was never a Jedi to start with.



Did he train for decades, master all forms of lightsaber combat and further honed his mastery?



Who knows? I don’t know whether he is as good a Soresu wielder as Kenobi, but he is certainly better at carrying out an offensive.



Well, knifing a couple of cells and slicing apart their membranes along with a couple of cell nuclei should also prevent them from regenerating as well, no? It’s probably that the burnt cells shed and the orbalisks regenerate from other cells within his face.

My point is, Anakin would have to launch his lightsaber pretty deep into Bane’s face, which I don’t see happening.



Of course, but last I checked, we’re debating Star Wars, not Greek mythology.



Read above. I find it A) highly unlikely Anakin will strike Bane’s head at all, given that is the only region he needs to defend. B) Given such a blatant advantage, Bane could slice at any part of Anakin’s body. C) Obi Wan was sent flying from Dooku’s force push. Bane is stronger than Dooku. There is no reason to believe that Kenobi is going to be standing after Bane crushes his legs using the force, or launches him at high velocities into a pillar etc., D) He was stated as being able to block Kas’im’s “unstoppable attack” with an “impenetrable defense.” With his Orbalisks, he has just the type of defensive leeway required to isolate Anakin.



Last time I checked, the Orbalisks are of totally different makeup from Mandalorian iron. My point is, bring in the proof that the orbalisk’s will break after several hits from the lightsaber.




What I saw was Anakin, at the height of his fury, unable to overcome a grieving Obi Wan.



Good man, I am being faithful to George’s intent.

Originally posted by zephiel7
Have what? I am assuming you mean strength, speed, and endurance to the level of Bane? As if. They are strong Jedi in their own right, but there is no evidence stating they are physically stronger or faster than Bane.
There's noe vidence of the reverse either. Don't go blindingly biased on Bane...Anakin is able to keep pace with Durge and that's no easy feat



durge can put his arms into lava and feel fine...Durge can open up solid durasteel and rip through armored Mandalorians like paper. The Sith failed to kill him, so did the Mandos and the bloodboilers...Durge is a veteran of the Old Sith wars...he's killed thousands of Jedi and Sith. Quite frankly, Bane can't touch him for strength and speed



If Anakin covers his back properly, this won't happen. And that's assuming Bane uses the same tactics

If, if, if...don't use hypotheticals. Dooku had a tactic that Bane would not. Moreover, these Orbalisks won't hold up for long if anakin hammers into them with fist or saber

Hm, last I checked, Qordis was the same as Kaan: He was a cruel, weakling coward and the proponent of all wrong with the Sith...one of those when the Darkside was spread too thin'n and all?
Killing Dooku is a hundred times more impressive than killing Qordis

So, when Bane's focusing-he'll have to concentrate on Saber or Force, Anakin finishes him. Lovely

He's a Form V user. Nuff said

against someone whose moves he knew. He knew Kas'im as well as Obi-wan knew Anakin. Form V is a naturally weak form with Defense


Anakin is also one of the best of the swordsmen who've ever lived, the finest master of Djem So dooku had ever seen. It takes a single motion to deflect Bane's saber and drive the point through his head. And that's in conjunction with Bane. They're not going to let up

In other words, since they know exactly what to focus on and can attack so in conjunction, Bane's in...well, he's in serious trouble. Especially if AnakinAnakin decides to slam a fist into him-are those orbalisks stronger than Super Battle Droid armor we saw him dismantle with his hand in Sithisis?




Because in the ROTS novelization, Obi-wan knew Anakin 'more intimately than a lover' and Anakin was a berserker who was hardly thinking clearly. We saw him at best when he dismantled Dooku without any effort at the end...not to mention they lure Dooku into a false sense of security...And did I add Anakin ability to defeat someone like Durge? Who's totally invulnerable? With armor supposedly impenetrable as it's Mando Iron?



When he was focusing and all? Last I checked, Anakin tore up Zonama Sekot when he was 13 as well.
And again: Bane was lying on the ground exhausted after that. Anakin and Obi-wan are very capable of defending themselves from any seismic activity



No, he hasn't done it again, but he's demonstrated the power and has the ability to do such. Mace himself even put Anakin as possibly the strongest Jedi alive- meaning. What's next, why didn't Bane 'rip apart' Kas'im with the Force? Stated Kas'im was no match for Bane there



As I said: More focused: he knew exactly what he was doing and Kas'im gave him the chance



When I see Bane match durge and dismantle SPDs with his hand, I'll agree

Simple dagger? He was using a battle axe to battle axe and Mandalore's weapon isn't destroyed, Mandalore is thrown off his footing.
And Exar hefted up that squid thing...last I checked, intertebrates and cephalapoids are exceptionally light.

And Anakin's fight with Durge proves quite a bit in itself



Npo. Don't throw your opinion in there. the EU, I'm afraid is canon and apparently, people who know Lucas personally are giving strikingly similar interpretations of Yoda's abilities and power. In the movies, GL intends for Yoda to be one of the most powerful beings in history, and Palpatine as well.
Stover showed that admirably


Apparently GL's intentions extend as far as your opinion




Is there evidence for him being weaker? Amply. Is he weaker than Palpatine? Yes.





I was referring to Yoda more, but I can provide about six other sources.
The NEC: "Yoda failed to defeat the strongest Sith in history." (I even asked Dan wallace to clarify 'power'...strangely, all the SW authors I've spoken to list Yoda as top of the line in comparison to anyone but Palp and Luke
AOTC Visual Dictionary: "The greatest master of Evil to ever use Sith Power watches and waits."
heritage of the sith: when it talks of him putting his plan in motion, it mentions him as the culmination of power and tradition of the Sith in millenia
In the Dark Side Sourcebook? Most powerful in over a thousand years and specifically of Bane's order: "The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious."

Tdon't try to rewrite when canon defeats your opinion! Lucas created Bane and Yoda and the official materials, which >your opinion show Bane as the inferior. Lucas officially okayed and approved Yoda's power and feats in the EU there. and don't even start: Stover gave exactly what he meant: Yoda is the strongest Jedi up to that point, and Palpatine, as proven in other sources, is the strongest Sith
Just because you THINK you read something and Bane did more on flowery prose, doesn't make it so. Got that? It's all just as canon as PoD and the novelization is moreso. Unless we see Bane fight in the movies, how dare you decide what the canon is and twist to suit you? How dare yousuddenly decide to twist the facts when they don't match your opinion?
Yoda and Palpatine of rOTS>Bane. It's clear, cut and there. and unless we see bane fighting visually, all you have is possibly exaggerated prose.

Sorry. Just because you think it showed him as inferior doesn't make it so. The EU-including bits line-edited by Mr, Lucas apparnetly- contradict you. The official statements without controversial evidence contradict you.

quite frankly, the facts contradict you. Yoda and Palpatine>Bane. No case there. Just tell yourself Lucas slows them down in the movies for our limited eyes. The highest canon-movies, don't preclude the EU, nor do they contradict the statements of Palp over Bane. You have to accept this, Zeph.



We've seen the same for Yoda and Mace and Obi-wan and Anakin at their best.
Unsubstantiated hyperbole in PoD? Just maybe. Cuts both ways.

ROTs novelization and ROTs visual guide. . It also prevents him from being menaced by Bane's abilities.

Oh, and Lucas left that bit in so, apparently...it goes with his vision.



He's also never fought someone who used one. Using one and defending from one? Two veeeery different things



So? Dooku was one of the



He certainly mastered all the forms and has an etremely high body count to his name

Probably. That's why Anakin comepnsates



Hardly. he needs to get it into Bane's head or through his eye and that'll end Bane rather succintly. Or sweep it across Bane's neck
Cutting and burning are very different...cuts naturally regenerate...deep burns that a ligtsaber does are not.

It's an analogy. The hydra's heads grow back when it's decapitated...but not when the stumps are cauterized. IT's the same principle...burned cells don't come back



You assume this precludes anything...Grievous's only weak spot was his chest...Durge had almost no weak spot and Anakin ran circles around him until he found a way to kill him. Moreover, how the hell can he defend his head effectively with Djem So? Keeping your saber raised that high is near suicide.


Well, Anakin's stronger than Bane. what's to stop Ani and Obi-wan from joining together and launching a full on attack? And Obi-wan blocked Grievous's unstoppable attack of 16 strikes a second.
And proof Bane'll do this right off? It'll leave him wide, wide open.



Weapons and technology states that every solid material will eventually break from a saber blade itself. Bane's armor can block a few strikes, but I doubt indefinitely




And according to Lucas's vision, Obi-wan was fully focused and trying to finish Anakin off while Anakin couldn't think straight.
And don't tell me Obi-wan was conflicted...he finished him without a hint of hesitation and when he got Anakin on the ground he struck with intent to kill



How Anakin and Obi-wan are practically unstoppable as a team and how Yoda most certainly> Any other Jedi,, the Ancient Sith and exar Kun (Y'know, the ancient Dark Lords Bane himself worshipped? The great JEdi Master Revan?)

Stover made his points very clear. And this, my dear man, is the highest level of canon besides the movies.

PoD has to conform to the others since it makes no claims of Bane being stronger directly. As there is no contradiction, but of maybe 'absence of proof', the matter is rather open and shut

Originally posted by zephiel7
Have what? I am assuming you mean strength, speed, and endurance to the level of Bane? As if. They are strong Jedi in their own right, but there is no evidence stating they are physically stronger or faster than Bane.
Are you saying without the force, or with the force to augment them? Without the force Bane is superior to them by far, in strength.



It's not CLEAR that Bane is Dooku's superior, Bane just has "different" techniques. I don't see Bane using the force on Obiwan and NOT dying by Anakin's hand, I don't care if he has orbalisks or not.


Pardon me for not understanding your terminology, but instakills means instantly kill somebody. What he did was hold the guy in a force choke, so that doesn't seem like an instakill but hey, I'm just a guy with bad reading comprehension.



Please prove that Qordis was anything more than an average sith, because virtually nobody from the new sith showed ANYTHING, so your point is moot.



Thats because he knew Kas'im as well as Obiwan knew Anakin. Once Kas'im threw an unknown form at him, he lost. Moot point.




Speculation.



Yet another moot point. Obiwan and Anakin knew each other perfectly, therefore the fight has no bearing on Anakin's power.




A temple that's been standing for a good part of 30,000 years? I'm not construction engineer but I'm going to venture a guess and say that a 30,000 old building isn't exactly "indestructable".




No, we have SEEN what Anakin can do when he puts his mind to it. See Dooku and the temple he destroyed.




Don't really understand what point you're trying to make here.




It's definitely in the NEC cause I'm looking at it, and I believe it's in some sourcebooks. The NEC is in universe but I believe lightsnake or Escape have an out of universe source. If not, RAGNOS RULES!!




Uh they don't portray Yoda being inferior to Bane, Lucas just tried making the movies realistic, not to mention he made the movies first. We have VARIOUS sources that prove Yoda>Bane, so don't even bother arguing that point. I agree that "strongest foe" crap is ambiguous, but Yoda was as powerful as ROTS Sidious, and ROTS Sidious was the most powerful sith lord ever. Not to mention TPM Sidious was mentioned as already becoming the most powerful of Bane's order, so again, moot point.





Thats right.




Your point actually makes sense if you think Anakin and Obiwan are just going to sit there and take it up the wazoo. Otherwise, no.




Obiwan knew Anakin inside and out, and was patient, moot point.

Sexy, Lightsnake, you guys just got pwned!

thats wtf pwnage and no nebaris, you got pwned

Noobaris always gets owned

he sure does "fr33d0n nadd is teh chosen 1!!!!"

WRONG!!

A lightsaber is weightless; it can't generate impact power, and its only true power is its cutting power. Quite frankly, repeatedly bashing Bane's orbalisks with a piece of string would do a better job at wearing them away than a lightsaber could.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Noobaris always gets owned

Yeah, that's great, you're still a loser TD.

Originally posted by Kadesh


Kadesh, go back to Thailand, you wannabee Michael Jackson pedophile b1tch.

Originally posted by allfg
WRONG!!

A lightsaber is weightless; it can't generate impact power, and its only true power is its cutting power. Quite frankly, repeatedly bashing Bane's orbalisks with a piece of string would do a better job at wearing them away than a lightsaber could.

More lies?
TOTJ disproves you, pal

How so? The point is, a lightsaber is weightless, so it can't generate kinetic damage, which means that it can either cut through something, or it cant; there's no weighing down of anything.

Originally posted by allfg
Yeah, that's great, you're still a loser TD.



Kadesh, go back to Thailand, you wannabee Michael Jackson pedophile b1tch.

Uhhh ok Noobaris? How does it feel being an embarassment to society. "Oh boo hoo youre still a loser although I suck at life". Good one..

Sexy, you suck at debating, you suck at insulting, you suck at everything. You're an embarrassment, now provide an argument, or gtfo.

Originally posted by allfg
How so? The point is, a lightsaber is weightless, so it can't generate kinetic damage, which means that it can either cut through something, or it cant; there's no weighing down of anything.

which is why when Exar strikes with more power, he slices through.

Funny, that

Elaborate.

What LS is saying, is that Vodo's staff could resist lightsaber strikes any time of the day. However, both times that Exar Kun struck with all his might, the staff broke. The only explenation is that he put more force behind the strike, meaning he struck with more kinetic energy...

Vodo's staff was faulty.

Ok, I just read that, and it was kinda vague. Well when Exar first broke Vodo's staff, it was because he used two sabers simultaneously, and the second time, because Vodo's staff had already been broken, it wasn't as string as before, and Exar may well have struck it in its weak spot (the point where it had broken before).

Originally posted by allfg
Sexy, you suck at debating, you suck at insulting, you suck at everything. You're an embarrassment, now provide an argument, or gtfo.



Awww how cute, I critisize your debating skills and lack of productive in society, and you throw it right back me. How original, it's no wonder you're the joke of the forum.

Again, you're an internet spammer, you're about as unproductive to society as it gets. And it's pretty clear that all you can do on here is uselessly bash people (not that you're good at it) because you can't debate for shit. Now provide a relevant argument to the topic, or go home, old man.

Originally posted by allfg
Again, you're an internet spammer, you're about as unproductive to society as it gets. And it's pretty clear that all you can do on here is uselessly bash people (not that you're good at it) because you can't debate for shit. Now provide a relevant argument to the topic, or go home, old man.

There's no need to debate to out debate you noobaris, you've effectively lost every debate you've ever been involved in..

Denial... The anti depressant of a nerd...

I don't have the time, nor do I feel the obligation to get into this with you Sexy.

then quit crying, *****.

Quit following me around like a b1tch, and I'll quit 'crying'.

.....

Originally posted by allfg
Ok, I just read that, and it was kinda vague. Well when Exar first broke Vodo's staff, it was because he used two sabers simultaneously, and the second time, because Vodo's staff had already been broken, it wasn't as string as before, and Exar may well have struck it in its weak spot (the point where it had broken before).


Lol, and he missed the spot all the other times in their fight? I wouldn't think so, it's big. I think it is pretty clear that he used much more power in the end, and the staff broke because of that.

There isn't much adebate...Vodo's saber was supposedly stronger than a saber...Exar swung without forced to break it....and he he swung with enough force to cleave Mandalorian metal

Originally posted by kamikz
Lol, and he missed the spot all the other times in their fight?

Clearly, otherwise it just doesn't makes sense and goes against science.



Perhaps Vodod defended the weak spot extremely well.



Well that goes against science. I think it's safer to take the alternative that actually makes sense...

And LS, what Mandalorian metal? Where abouts was this?

Defended it? With what? His hands? He holds both ends of the staff to parry almost every single time, basically, Kun cannot strike anywhere else than in the middle. It is quite obvious that Kun uses more power in the last strike than in the others.

Also, he broke it in the first place, a thing which is supposed to be more powerful than a saber. He used two, and smacked all he could, same as above except he used one...

Firstm coupla issues of TOTJ: DLOTS.

Originally posted by allfg
Yeah, that's great, you're still a loser TD.



Kadesh, go back to Thailand, you wannabee Michael Jackson pedophile b1tch.

Reported!

I wonder how fast Noobaris will be back after this ban..

Originally posted by allfg

Kadesh, go back to Thailand, you wannabee Michael Jackson pedophile b1tch. LOL again you proved yourself to be a dumbass failing to simple english a 3 year old can understand .But yea i think ill go to thailand for a vacation, thanks for recomending me to go for a holiday numbskull.

By the way, at least people gave me credit for impersenating MJ in my hometown, i at least can sing, i can do the moon walk, but what can you do?

i know! You love poledancing and lap dancing you gay s.o.b and bane was your inspiration,


i got your PM by the way, telling me you sock and cause trouble here because you need super magnifying glass to see your own pen!s cuz its so damm small only superman can see it. Poor kid you shoud not have gone for a sex change operation and further you shouldnt have told me about it, tsk tsk tsk

Originally posted by allfg
WRONG!!

A lightsaber is weightless; it can't generate impact power, and its only true power is its cutting power. Quite frankly, repeatedly bashing Bane's orbalisks with a piece of string would do a better job at wearing them away than a lightsaber could.

WRONG!!

virtually impervious to lightsabers means that a lightsaber CAN get through. Rules of grammar dictate written rules of physics.

Subjekt, a lightsaber is weightless, so how can it cause kinetic damage? Then again, I'm not surprised that you don't get this, ever since your wookiepedia argument I haven't really taken you seriously. Though I'm sure you're gonna reply with the JT insult that you've said like a gazillion times: here's a hint *it wasn't funny the first time*

If sabers cant do kinetic impact then djem so is useless since thats whats it is based on. You defy the laws of logic nebaris

Only when up against another lightsaber Kadesh. Fact is, a weightless object can't produce kinetic damage, you can't put force into your attacks.

well you do have a point..

Thats BS, the person swinging the actual object creates kinetic force behind the attacks, while its harder to generate, and not as powerful as something that is weighted already, you can still put force behind your attacks.

Bullshit. A lightsaber is weightless, you can't generate kinetic damage with something which has no weight; no force can be applied into it.

Except...that's exactly what happens

Apparently the technology allows it to be used as a solid object. Don't ask "how" on this one...

Originally posted by allfg
Bullshit. A lightsaber is weightless, you can't generate kinetic damage with something which has no weight; no force can be applied into it.

Your a tool, the hilt has weight, which is what they're swinging around. I dont know if you've seen the movies but thats attached to the bottem of the blade, they're not just swinging around beams of weightless light. friggin n00b.

You're a moron (calling someone a tool only shows people that you're lame, btw), the weight of the hilt is irrelevant seeing as you're not actually hitting you opponent with it, you dumbass. You seem to be confusing kinetic energy with kinetic damage; go back to school.

Why, exactly, then, do we have evidence of force and strenth being a factor?

alf, or whatever you named your current sock, you are without a doubt the stupidest person on these boards. You may not take me seriously, but then, who takes you seriously? oh thats right, NOBODY. You're a loser who constantly has Bane's dick in your mouth. If something is virtually impervious, then that means its not completely safe from it. Also, while the blade itself is weightless, it follows where the hilt goes, the faster the hilt, the faster the blade. Now since You're always so big on "teh pLaN3tZ uBeR logic" of star wars, you have to realize that since we have sound and explosions in space, a weightless object can inflict damage upon your precious Bane. Get over it, he is able to lose, he's not uber and he and his armor can be damaged by a lightsaber.

Originally posted by allfg
You're a moron (calling someone a tool only shows people that you're lame, btw), the weight of the hilt is irrelevant seeing as you're not actually hitting you opponent with it, you dumbass. You seem to be confusing kinetic energy with kinetic damage; go back to school.

Someone has zero idea how physics works.

P.S. WTF is kenetic damage? Now your just making shit up.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Someone has zero idea how physics works.

P.S. WTF is kenetic damage? Now your just making shit up.

Probably an RPG term which he plays with his fat virgin friends..

'ZOMG!! I DO KENETIC DMG!!'

'I DO SAVE THROWW!!'

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
alf, or whatever you named your current sock, you are without a doubt the stupidest person on these boards. You may not take me seriously, but then, who takes you seriously? oh thats right, NOBODY. You're a loser who constantly has Bane's dick in your mouth. If something is virtually impervious, then that means its not completely safe from it. Also, while the blade itself is weightless, it follows where the hilt goes, the faster the hilt, the faster the blade. Now since You're always so big on "teh pLaN3tZ uBeR logic" of star wars, you have to realize that since we have sound and explosions in space, a weightless object can inflict damage upon your precious Bane. Get over it, he is able to lose, he's not uber and he and his armor can be damaged by a lightsaber.

dont forget the law of physics state that the faster the acceleration, the greater the pressure on impact, learn to accept that nebaris

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
alf, or whatever you named your current sock, you are without a doubt the stupidest person on these boards.

Well then it must get pretty frustrating constantly losing to 'the stupidest person on these boards'. No wonder you're so angry, you big dummy.



Aren't you the middle aged man who frequents a Star wars forum and constantly loses to people half his age in debates? Oh, you're not a loser, you're a winner!



OMFG, you're as dumb as Anal Man, and like him, you need to go back to school.

A lightsaber blade is weightless. How quickly you can swing it is irregardless of how great it's impact damage is.



Darth Reject, please tell me, what does the 'Sci' in 'Sci-Fi' stand for, exactly?



And he's actually going to get hit by the lightsaber a hundred times, right?

You. Are. Dumb.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Someone has zero idea how physics works.

P.S. WTF is kenetic damage? Now your just making shit up.

Damage caused purely through impact. Again, go back to school.

Originally posted by allfg
Damage caused purely through impact. Again, go back to school.

LOL Seriously, why don't you stop, your just embarrassing yourself.

Originally posted by allfg
Well then it must get pretty frustrating constantly losing to 'the stupidest person on these boards'. No wonder you're so angry, you big dummy.
You big dummy??? How elementary school is that shit? Well, I'm rubber and you're glue, and whenever I nut, it lands on you. And losing to you??? LMFAO! I've never lost to you...no one has!!


Originally posted by allfg
Aren't you the middle aged man who frequents a Star wars forum and constantly loses to people half his age in debates? Oh, you're not a loser, you're a winner!
Middle aged? - nope; Frequent? - nope; Loses to dumbasses like you? - nope. I'm not the loser who is so pathetic about these boards, that I have to go and make sock after sock everytime I get banned just to keep coming back here to get banned again, LOL. You're a fvcking loser...nerd!


Originally posted by allfg
OMFG, you're as dumb as Anal Man, and like him, you need to go back to school.

A lightsaber blade is weightless. How quickly you can swing it is irregardless of how great it's impact damage is. Actually I'm in school working on a my Mastes, but thanks for playing. And right, thats why dooku's saber only barely cut OB1, and Mace's went right through Jango's neck...right, speed has nothing to do with it.



Originally posted by allfg
Darth Reject, please tell me, what does the 'Sci' in 'Sci-Fi' stand for, exactly?
Alf dick, please tell me what the 'Fi' in "Sci-Fi" stands for, exactly. By the way, you wannabe grammar nazi, you posed a statement, not a question, therefore you needed a period rather than a question mark.
WAAAH!!! GO BACK TO SCHOOL!!!WAAHH

Originally posted by allfg
And he's actually going to get hit by the lightsaber a hundred times, right?

You. Are. Dumb. Well, when you fight people that much better than you, anything can happen. And provide proof where it says it takes 100 hits to break through the orbalisks.

You.Suck.Dick.

What I don't understand is how noobaris still thinks that he's winning ANY arguments here.

Ok, don't take me wrong but, i think this bane's fanboyism is getting annyoing. In every single post bane appears has some kind of sith god... Really, bane is good, and probably on the top 10 or 5 from te greatest sith, but he was not THAT good... The force users of his time really suck lol...

WTF are you talking about? How can you consider him in the top five or ten and not consider him really good?

Originally posted by kamhal
Ok, don't take me wrong but, i think this bane's fanboyism is getting annyoing. In every single post bane appears has some kind of sith god... Really, bane is good, and probably on the top 10 or 5 from te greatest sith, but he was not THAT good... The force users of his time really suck lol... the force users at his time really did suck but bane was the only close-to-power with the movie characters, so yes he is that good

You misunderstood me. When i said "he was not THAT good" I was saying that "he is not the strongest force user ever, able to destroy every single jedi or sith that ever lived in history" as i seem to see lately...

Got it?

Originally posted by kamhal
You misunderstood me. When i said "he was not THAT good" I was saying that "he is not the strongest force user ever, able to destroy every single jedi or sith that ever lived in history" as i seem to see lately...

Got it? Next time be more clear, not THAT good could mean he could be weaker than obi wan, Just interpret it properly

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
You big dummy??? How elementary school is that shit?

Well if you act like a big dummy, that's what you're going to get called, you big dummy.



Wow! You know how to use smileys! Ergo, you can't be angry, upset and crying like a 6 year old girl. Oh wait, that's not right...



Are you not a 40 year old army veteran?



LOL, I love how you don't disagree with the 'loses to people half his age in debates'.

And yes, you have lost to me, refer to the 'does being at full potential mean that a force user can't become any more powerful?' argument.



Oh I forgot, you're the guy who writes his own rap lyrics. Lol!



I'd suggest high school science, don't bite on more than you can chew.



Wow, I didn't realise you could get any dumber. Speed had nothing to do with it, it was the type of lightsaber attack used (swinging slash by Windu, light stab by Dooku), and how far the blade was pushed into each opponent.



Wow, this was original.
Please, even 'allfag' would have sounded better than that.



Right, so because Star Wars is fictional, the rules of science don't apply... I guess gravity doesn't exist in Star Wars either, huh?



Oh my fricking days, you are a moron. Now read carefully what I posted, in fact, because I'm a nice person, I'll post it for you:

'Darth Reject, please tell me, what does the 'Sci' in 'Sci-Fi' stand for, exactly?'

See what I put in bold letters? That's what you'd call a question word. As in, I was asking a question. As in, you're a moron. In fact, I think I can see why you're so confused on this simple issue. Here's what you posted:

'Alf dick, please tell me what the 'Fi' in "Sci-Fi" stands for, exactly.'

This would be a statement, yes, but it differs very much from what I said. Read through it carefully, perhaps you'll understand. Now like I've been saying, please go back to school.



Wow, you know how to copy Gideon! I'm impressed.



Refer to my first post, where I effectively proved that Bane is leagues better than either in any and every way.



That wasn't my point Darth Reject; you seemed to be implying that Bane would actually get hit multiple times (he wouldn't even get hit period, actually), which is silly.



You. Suck. AnalMan.

You both sound stupid, just cut the insults and stick to the argument.

Can I ask you guys a question? Where does it state that a lightsaber is weightless?

The blade is pure energy... If you want to argue that it has mass, go ahead.

No, the blade does not have mass, but it doesn't need to, its attached to something that DOES have mass. Therefore the entire weapon itself has mass...Just not very much. Nevertheless, you can therefore put significant force behind a lightsaber blow depending on how fast and hard you swing it. Can you put as much force behind it as say a Sith sword? No you cant, because Sith swords are heavy swords, but you can still put force behind a lightsaber attack. The entire weapons itself isn't weightless.

Noobaris. There IS a hilt on a lightsaber, you do know that right? Now unless you want to argue that the hilt is weightless, your point is moot.

I wasn't arguing that you can't swing a lightsaber blade quicker with more strength, if that's how what I was saying came off across, then that wasn't my intention. All I was saying is that how quickly you swing the blade has no relation on the damage the lightsaber causes on impact because the blade is weightless, and therefor can't cause any damage in that way; you can't channel speed and force into a weightless blade to inflict kinetic damage.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Noobaris. There IS a hilt on a lightsaber, you do know that right? Now unless you want to argue that the hilt is weightless, your point is moot.

Read the post above^. What you're hitting your opponents with: the blade itself, is weightless. It's only power lies in burning through solid material, however if a material is resistant to the cutting power of a lightsaber, it's pretty much ineffective in wearing the material away.

And AGAIN: We've seen Exar Kun disprove that theory....and lightsabers have different possible settings

Provide a direct link to where he disproves that, and I'll concede.



Intensity levels... Nothing to do with damage caused by impact.

go to SWtimeline.com an find the part when Exar destroys the wall of mando iron...it's in TOTJ: DLOTS

Originally posted by allfg
I wasn't arguing that you can't swing a lightsaber blade quicker with more strength, if that's how what I was saying came off across, then that wasn't my intention. All I was saying is that how quickly you swing the blade has no relation on the damage the lightsaber causes on impact because the blade is weightless, and therefor can't cause any damage in that way; you can't channel speed and force into a weightless blade to inflict kinetic damage.

Since you fail to comprehend what I said, I'm going to post this again.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
No, the blade does not have mass, but it doesn't need to, its attached to something that DOES have mass. Therefore the entire weapon itself has mass...Just not very much. Nevertheless, you can therefore put significant force behind a lightsaber blow depending on how fast and hard you swing it. Can you put as much force behind it as say a Sith sword? No you cant, because Sith swords are heavy swords, but you can still put force behind a lightsaber attack. The entire weapons itself isn't weightless.

I understand perfectly, and I'm guessing you know that, but since you know that I'm right and you're wrong, and don't want to admit it, but don't want to back away either, you're choosing to act as if I'm missing your point, without any explanation as to how I'm doing that might I add. Now really, hypothetically speaking, if I did miss your point the first time, what makes you so sure that I'll get it the second? I think an explanation as to how I missed your point, and what your point really is, is in order, ((The Anomaly))

Originally posted by Lightsnake
go to SWtimeline.com an find the part when Exar destroys the wall of mando iron...it's in TOTJ: DLOTS

OK, I just read from here onwards, and I'm not seeing your point Lightsnake, could you elaborate?

something you don't get about that?

Clearly. Elaborate.

You don't even need the comcis to prove that. Luke cuts through a wall of Cortosis with his lightsaber in the Thrawn duology. That's a perfectly valid example of a lightsaber cutting through something lightsaber resistant.

Exar swings once....Mando iron undented.

Exar swings with more power. He cuts through

Exact book, passage and page number?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Exar swings once....Mando iron undented.

On a low lightsaber intensity.



What page? I couldn't find that anywhere? And even then, the intensity levels explains why.

The pictures prove you wrong already.

OK, for some reason my internet wasn't displaying the bottom part of that page earlier, but still, there's a perfectly valid explanation: the lightsaber's intensity level. That has nothing to do with the kinetic damage a lightsaber can cause.

Originally posted by allfg
Exact book, passage and page number?

I'll PM it to you I guess wyhen I get it. It's at my Mom's house.

We also see the Jedi on Saleucami cut through cortosis weaponry

Originally posted by allfg
I understand perfectly, and I'm guessing you know that, but since you know that I'm right and you're wrong, and don't want to admit it, but don't want to back away either, you're choosing to act as if I'm missing your point, without any explanation as to how I'm doing that might I add. Now really, hypothetically speaking, if I did miss your point the first time, what makes you so sure that I'll get it the second? I think an explanation as to how I missed your point, and what your point really is, is in order, ((The Anomaly))

Reading the verbal spunk that comes out of your mouth makes me want to give up on humanity.

juz ignore him. Hes like cancer who will never go away FFS why didnt they ban this fella yet,

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Reading the verbal spunk that comes out of your mouth makes me want to give up on humanity.

Now why am I not surprised that you backed out of this?

Originally posted by allfg
Now why am I not surprised that you backed out of this? because he simply thinks you are too stupid to talk to even in your own retarted language

Originally posted by allfg
Now why am I not surprised that you backed out of this?

Because you seemingly cant even read and comprehend basic words, like "entire" and "weapon" and "itself" "and even more simple words like "has" and "mass". Seriously, your asking for an explanation of something that is written is plain, straightforward English. You cant get anymore concise then what I said, so I'm not going to bother trying.

LOL, sure thing!



Wow, someone needs to improve their reading comprehension skills...
I made it perfectly clear that I understood your post, yet you felt the need to say that I was missing your point, when I clearly wasn't, so I asked you to explain yourself. I didn't ask you to explain your actual post again, because I clearly already understood it. As I said, learn to read.



OK now, let's not get carried away here, it wasn't that concise.

Originally posted by Blaxican
I'll PM it to you I guess wyhen I get it. It's at my Mom's house.
Cannot help you with the page number but it is in the second book of where "Thrawn" comes back to life :Vision of the Future: I think it was in the middle I think but I isn't sure, but it is there for that I am 100% sure.

Bane is more powerful then either of them. But Anakin (ROTS) is still an exceptional match for him.

Lets compare some stats!

Bane vs Anakin ROTS:

Saber Skills: Bane < Anakin
Strength: Bane > Anakin
Force Mastery: Bane > Anakin
Potential: Bane < Anakin
Experience: Bane is more experienced then Anakin.
Over-powering Factor: Bane and Anakin are equal in this case. Bane can Over-power through his greater Force Mastery and Anakin can Over-power through his Saber skills.

Bane vs Obi-Wan ROTS:

Saber Skills: Bane < Obi-Wan
Strength: Bane > Obi-Wan
Force Mastery: Bane > Obi-Wan
Potential: Bane > Obi-Wan ???
Experience: Bane is at-least on par with Obi-Wan in this regard.
Over-powering Factor: Bane is more Over-powering in this case. Bane can Over-power through his greater Force Mastery.

In case of Bane vs Anakin ROTS + Obi-Wan ROTS:

Now when Bane will face both Anakin and Obi-Wan in a fight, then he is at clear disadvantage against the odds.

Still Bane has chance to win by over-powering these two Jedi Knights through his impressive Force mastery. But if Bane is locked in to Saber contest by these two individuals, then he will be defeated.

Anyways! this will be a very tough fight for Bane.

Just my 2 cents.

Um anakin would over power bane in saber skills, and what part does experience play? yoda had 800 yrs and stalemated with sidious whom only had 60 years of experience


And things dont end up in a force fight unless one of them gets disarmed

Originally posted by Kadesh
Um anakin would over power bane in saber skills, and what part does experience play? yoda had 800 yrs and stalemated with sidious whom only had 60 years of experience
Experience determines your ability to make logical, decisive or important decisions in a fight.

Yoda's experience is not yet fully known. His age is irrelevant factor when determining his experience.

Originally posted by Kadesh
And things dont end up in a force fight unless one of them gets disarmed
Dooku proved this notion false. He over-powered Obi-Wan through his Force mastery and then incapacitated him during the fight.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Experience determines your ability to make logical, decisive or important decisions in a fight.

Yoda's experience is not yet fully known. His age is irrelevant factor when determining his experience.
still yoda who had 800 years of experience could not defeat the strongest sith lord, and dookus mastery and exp > anakin by a hell margin and yet died in a duel but yea i think ill agree with u here
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Dooku proved this notion false. He over-powered Obi-Wan through his Force mastery and then incapacitated him during the fight.
That was because there was an oppourtunity to do so, well you are right here but how well do we know if bane would use the force? in his fight with kasim he used the force as a last resort cuz he managed to back away, So if he is able to back far, his force would > the duo

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Experience determines your ability to make logical, decisive or important decisions in a fight.

Yoda's experience is not yet fully known. His age is irrelevant factor when determining his experience.

"For 800 years have I trained Jedi Knights."

Yea, we sure as hell don't know shit about his experience, huh? And where the hell did you get those stats? Your opinion? How the hell can you know who is physically stronger? Based on his appearance in a comic book?

Just because people know the force, doesn't mean they always use it. Usually it's 1 or 2 feats, then on with the sabers.

No, Bane has been in what three real lightsaber duels in his entire life, Sirak, That other Sith Student and Kas'im. And has spent about a year and a half at BEST studying the Sith, while Anakin has been a Jedi for about 13 years, faced numerous foes like The Magna Guards, Ventress, Durge, Dooku ect...was a general in a full scale ground and space war for three years. Bane is green compared to Anakin.




No, this is the same for Anakin accept add anther 10 or so years of studying the force, training under Jinn, facing Maul, and all there other trials Obi Wan has faced and again the duo have the edge in experience.




I really don't see how this lasts beyond about 2 minutes, he tries to use the force on one and he'll get a blade in his face, and he's not sitting around spamming force waves so really what is he gonna do?

We've seen how Bane does when he sees a new style that he hasn't memorized sets of, he shits his pants, loses his focus and runs. Now whats he gonna do to perhaps the greatest masters of Djem So and Soresu ever? Especially considering the fact that when he did memorise the sets of these forms they were from a double bladed saber and DBL Djem So and Soresu =/= Single Sabered Djem So and Soresu.

Then, we also have the fact that he almost lost to Sith Students when he was outnumbered, 3 : 2, not to mention that they were clumsy and didn't follow up on attacks (Bane was almost knocked out by a single strand of force lightning) So really whats he gonna do to OB1 and Anakin who compliment each other completely, move almost and move almost in unison to each other.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
"For 800 years have I trained Jedi Knights."

Yea, we sure as hell don't know shit about his experience, huh? And where the hell did you get those stats? Your opinion? How the hell can you know who is physically stronger? Based on his appearance in a comic book?

Just because people know the force, doesn't mean they always use it. Usually it's 1 or 2 feats, then on with the sabers.
Training Jedi Knights is one thing. But real experience is gained through exposures in dangerous situations like in battles and fights etc.

Bane is indeed physically stronger then both Anakin and Obi-Wan. He is more heavily built and taller. Especially those shells (orbalisks) on his body boost his energies.

Do not forget that I am talking about Orbalisk Bane here.

And Force fights are not just limited to one or two feats. The fight between Yoda and Sidious showed us that extensive Force fights can take place as well.

Have you forgot that how Dooku incapacitated Obi-Wan in that ship in ROTS?

Why can't Bane pull out such a move? He is more powerful then Dooku at-least.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Bane is indeed physically stronger then both Anakin and Obi-Wan. He is more heavily built and taller. Especially those shells (orbalisks) on his body boost his energies.
Dont forget that each orbalisks scale weighs 1kg and banes entire body is covered with them, that would slow his speed though giving him super strength, Source? Dark side sourcebook stated the orbalisks weight.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And Force fights are not just limited to one or two feats. The fight between Yoda and Sidious showed us that extensive Force fights can take place as well.


sidious used the force when he is unarmed, And bane has demonstrated force feats after a saber duel when he nearly got shitted, like i said if he manages to back a distance he can unleash his attacks with the force

The question is, as he ever faced a master of djem so and soresu to its highest degree? i dont think so

Bane would beat Obi-Wan in an all otut fight more often then not, but Obi is still a better swordsman, nevertheless, in single combat Obi-Wan would prolly lose.

Anakin however would tool Bane in saber combat, and his raw power is enough to bring down buildings. Although this isn't going to necessarily help in a fight, Bane has never faced someone with power on the level of Anakin, his sheer raw force power is staggering. I'd give Anakin about a 60/50 win in single combat against Bane. Banes takes a few due to his superior offensive force powers, but Anakin is just better then he is.

Together however, then this is a different story. We're talking about one amazingly powerful (and one pretty powerful) and amazingly accomplished Jedi, who are possibly the best team of all time together, especially in saber combat. Seriously, Bane has a chance of beating these two in single combat (as long a he can keep it from becoming saber battle in which case he's pwned either way) but Ani and Obi together = Bane is toast, inside and out.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No, Bane has been in what three real lightsaber duels in his entire life, Sirak, That other Sith Student and Kas'im. And has spent about a year and a half at BEST studying the Sith, while Anakin has been a Jedi for about 13 years, faced numerous foes like The Magna Guards, Ventress, Durge, Dooku ect...was a general in a full scale ground and space war for three years. Bane is green compared to Anakin.
And your forgot to note that Kas'im was superior to Magna Guards, Ventress, Durge and Dooku in terms of Saber Skills. Although Bane did not over-powered him in Saber Combat but he survived and used Force to crush him. This shows that he could win in very tough situations as well.

Also Bane got additional training from Darth Revan's holocron, which was a treasure of Sith Techniques. His knowledge base was enhanced and he used that new knowledge to turn situations in to his favour.

And Bane also has fought in some battles.

If he is not superior to Anakin in terms of experience then he is not inferior either.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
No, this is the same for Anakin accept add anther 10 or so years of studying the force, training under Jinn, facing Maul, and all there other trials Obi Wan has faced and again the duo have the edge in experience.
And how much of an elite training did Obi-Wan enjoyed in these 10 years? Bane learned many impressive techniques in a relative short time. So time is irrelevant.

Kas'im was again superior to Maul, Jinn and Grevious in Saber Skills.

Obi-Wan was indeed more experienced then Anakin however.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
I really don't see how this lasts beyond about 2 minutes, he tries to use the force on one and he'll get a blade in his face, and he's not sitting around spamming force waves so really what is he gonna do?
You think that Bane cannot pull out a Force move in case of a fight? This is flawed assumption.

A Force Wave can send individuals flying in the air and then direct strikes of Force Lightning can do the job well. Not to forget that Bane was also a master practitioner of Force Lightning.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
We've seen how Bane does when he sees a new style that he hasn't memorized sets of, he shits his pants, loses his focus and runs. Now whats he gonna do to perhaps the greatest masters of Djem So and Soresu ever? Especially considering the fact that when he did memorise the sets of these forms they were from a double bladed saber and DBL Djem So and Soresu =/= Single Sabered Djem So and Soresu.
Kas'im was a huge challenge for him indeed. And Double Bladed Saber is more dangerous then Single Bladed Saber. DB Saber has more chance to hit you from un-suspecting angles. Why do you think that Darth Maul prefered Double Bladed Saber over Single Blade Saber?

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Then, we also have the fact that he almost lost to Sith Students when he was outnumbered, 3 : 2, not to mention that they were clumsy and didn't follow up on attacks (Bane was almost knocked out by a single strand of force lightning) So really whats he gonna do to OB1 and Anakin who compliment each other completely, move almost and move almost in unison to each other.
And this happened to Orbalisk Bane?

Originally posted by Kadesh
sidious used the force when he is unarmed, And bane has demonstrated force feats after a saber duel when he nearly got shitted, like i said if he manages to back a distance he can unleash his attacks with the force

The question is, as he ever faced a master of djem so and soresu to its highest degree? i dont think so
Kas'im had mastered every Saber technique to its highest degree. I don't think that he was inferior to Obi-Wan and Anakin in terms of Saber Skills.

And when Bane will be in trouble then he will resort to his Force Mastery.

I won't be surprised if Bane will over-power both Anakin and Obi-Wan through Force and then turn situation in to his favour. But once again if he does not gets that chance, then he will be destroyed. I consider this as 50/50 situation for both adversaries.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And your forgot to note that Kas'im was superior to Magna Guards, Ventress, Durge and Dooku in terms of Saber Skills. Although Bane did not over-powered him in Saber Combat but he survived and used Force to crush him. This shows that he could win in very tough situations as well. Yea bane uses the force before getting shitted, again bane killed kasim through a few reasons 1) bane was lucky that kasim was under the structure 2) he had a chance to back away


Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Kas'im was a huge challenge for him indeed. And Double Bladed Saber is more