Loose Change - 9/11 Documentary

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papabeard
www.loosechange911.com/

Hopefully someones already posted about this.

Its a documentary suggesting that the american government was responsible for carrying out the 9/11 attacks.

You may be sceptical but I hope you will watch it and make your own mind up.

You can watch it from the site, i think it utilises goggle video.

If you have not seen this , i would suggest you do.

Let me know what you think.

www.loosechange911.com/

MildPossession
Yeah read about this in the papers a few days ago, thanks for the link to watch it.

papabeard
Glad to help.

Pass it on.

Jim Reaper
Interesting... Thx.

Strangelove
Crazy and stupid

forumcrew
there are definitely threads on this around here somewhere.

Some of it might seem crazy and stupid, but you would be stupid to say it is all 100% false. I think you have to open to all sides of all events or your just being ignorant.

Strangelove
Originally posted by forumcrew
there are definitely threads on this around here somewhere.

Some of it might seem crazy and stupid, but you would be stupid to say it is all 100% false. I think you have to open to all sides of all events or your just being ignorant. I've considered it, And I don't completely rule it out (damn close though), but it's a stupid conspiracy theory. Just like all the conspiracy theories

NinthSith
Originally posted by Strangelove
I've considered it, And I don't completely rule it out (damn close though), but it's a stupid conspiracy theory. Just like all the conspiracy theories



There are much better conspiracy movies about the events of 911,do a google video search.Try finding "911 the road to tyranny" for example.

Kram3r
That video is old and utterly stupid. I think Maddox says it best here.

papabeard
we'll kram3r, it seems that this maddox fellows reasoning for debunking the conspiracy theory is that Dylan ( the film maker) and his family and friends are still alive and that the government have not shut the site down, which seems a little naive to me.

Im not making any claims as to what is true and what is false, but think about it........ perhaps if all of a sudden a filmmaker who made a doc about governmental conspiracies and his family and friends all die in mysterious circumstances, that may invite some further suspicion, also if the goverment tried to prevent this film from being seen, that implicates them and gives validity to the viewpoint contained within.

Maybe this conspiracy theory is a little too scary for maddox and yourself.

Strangelove
Originally posted by papabeard
Maybe this conspiracy theory is a little too scary for maddox and yourself. While the theory that the Administration used the 9/11 attacks to their political advantage is valid, and very true, the theory that President Bush and his subordinates orchestrated an attack that killed well over 3000 of his own countrymen is despicable. I don't like Bush at all. Call him whatever you want, I won't stop you. But even I wouldn't put him in the same class as genocidal dictators.

A critical part of the 9//1 conspiracy theory doesn't even hold up to logic. If Bush et al. orchestrated 9/11 to use it as leverage to attack Iraq, why bother bringing Osama bin Laden into it? Why pin it on him? He had nothing to do with Iraq and the Administration knew it. And for that matter, why did Osama confess?

Answer that and I might take the argument with a little more than a grain of salt.

Ya Krunk'd Floo
Deano's going to wet himself when he sees this thread.

papabeard
Originally posted by Strangelove

A critical part of the 9//1 conspiracy theory doesn't even hold up to logic. If Bush et al. orchestrated 9/11 to use it as leverage to attack Iraq, why bother bringing Osama bin Laden into it? Why pin it on him? He had nothing to do with Iraq and the Administration knew it. And for that matter, why did Osama confess?

Answer that and I might take the argument with a little more than a grain of salt.

With regard to Osama Bin Laden confessing as far as I am aware the evidence of this is a very poor quality video that has someone who looks like Bin Laden claiming they were responsible for orchestrating the attacks.

Now its easy to find a doppelganger for someone ( Dictators, Saddam Hussein in particular employed many doubles sometimes going as far as to make someone have cosmetic surgery to increase the likeness), especially someone who wears headwear and has a beard covering a large portion of his face and neck. I have seen the video of this and have to say that I am not certain it is Bin Laden as he appears much heavier than he does consistently in other images I have seen of him, as well as other visual discrepancies. And of course voice duplication software has been around for years, so it would be easy to make it sound like Bin Laden, and do we even know what Bin Laden sounds like anyway. Also he was one of americas most wanted criminals since around 1997-1998, why was he not apprehended before 2001, when he would have been easy to locate.

Blaming The Taliban and Osama Bin Laden for these attacks makes them "public enemy NO 1" and lend creedence to the need for immediate attacks on Afghanistan to destroy the American assisted Taliban, which in 2001 had become very powerful. They were the obvious choice, as people already belived them to have a hatred towards America.

Also the state of fear induced by these attacks would certainly give the government leverage for attacks on other countries in the middle east, as the population would back any decisions to neutralise outside threats, particularly one as infamous as Saddam Hussein, and coupled with the supposed "threat" of WMD's , gave the US government the evidentiary green light it needed to go ahead with the war in Iraq, but dont forget they laid waste to the Taliban, in the weeks succeeding 9/11, long before they began the war on Iraq.

Its part of a long term plan, and they will use the attacks as leverage for a great many things to come, they have already used it to take away peoples rights to trials , change laws on holding prisoners, introduction of the patriot act, the list goes on and on.

In a document published by a right-wing think tank, which included Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, it was stated that a catastrophic event similar to the attacks on Pearl Harbour could create the right psychological environment in which to implement their future plans. This is long- term covert fascism, "Psy Ops" used on a countries own people, and it takes place so slowly and is so clever you almost wouldnt notice it happening.

papabeard
In addition to the issue of Osama Bin Laden claiming responsibilty,

a statement was issued to Al Jazzera within days of 09/11/01, allegedly by Osam Bin Laden stating :

" The US government has consistently blamed me for being behind every attack. I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons. I have been living in the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations"

Strangelove
Originally posted by papabeard
In addition to the issue of Osama Bin Laden claiming responsibilty,

a statement was issued to Al Jazzera within days of 09/11/01, allegedly by Osam Bin Laden stating :

" The US government has consistently blamed me for being behind every attack. I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons. I have been living in the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations" h, so you're going to take the word of a terrorist over the government? Granted, it's not the best government, but still.

papabeard
"One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter"

jaden101
Originally posted by papabeard
"One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter"

and who is al qaeda trying to free?

papabeard
They are fighting against western imperialsm and the american treatment of the middle east.

Deano
im glad some people are waking up anyway.

just remember...whenever you hear the words 'official story' ..then you know that its a lie.

Captain Maynard
Originally posted by Strangelove
Crazy and stupid

Agreed

Deano
its not stupid when all evidence suggests otherwise

i still find it amazing that people think that bin laden did it, when there is NO EVIDENCE.

baaaa baaaaa

Altar[1stONE]
I have a question , in the video where a building specialist says . " based on what i saw , after being hit by the airplanes. The towers collapsed due to some explosives within the building". When he says this, does he mean explosives as in planted demolitions, bombs , C4 things of that nature? Or when the planes hit at that magnitude, there were gas tanks, electrical equipment, generators , that kept the WTC running. That if ruptured or hit, would cause some fires and explosions . Creating a domino effect, leaving us with the end result ? If they wernt demolitions, setup by the government . The idea of the planes causing a chain reaction of explosions from damaging the equipment within the towers, seems reasonable. Unless one of you can explain.

papabeard
Yeah, I agree it does seem reasonable, but i dont think there were any such devices in that part of the building( the janitor may explain this in the doc), also it was stated by people inside the building that explosions came from the elevator shafts and a fire ball barreled down the elevator shafts to the ground floor and this caused the glass and marble to shatter in the ground floor foyer, but apparently the elevator shafts were airtight which would make this scenario impossible, so how did the glass and marble get smashed?

jaden101
Originally posted by papabeard
They are fighting against western imperialsm and the american treatment of the middle east.

horse manure...al qaeda's aims have only ever been to drive anyone who doesn't subscribe to their view of islam out of saudi arabia which they refer to, roughly translated as, the land of 2 holy places...

they merely see america as the head of the devil...any secular islamic government and any middle eastern government which doesn't follow their view point as also targets...hence they bomb targets in muslim countries such as turkey

and thus it has nothing to do with "freedom fighting" because they're not trying to free anyone or anything...quite the opposite in fact...to impose their ideology on others...

papabeard
erOriginally posted by jaden101
horse manure...al qaeda's aims have only ever been to drive anyone who doesn't subscribe to their view of islam out of saudi arabia which they refer to, roughly translated as, the land of 2 holy places...

they merely see america as the head of the devil...any secular islamic government and any middle eastern government which doesn't follow their view point as also targets...hence they bomb targets in muslim countries such as turkey

and thus it has nothing to do with "freedom fighting" because they're not trying to free anyone or anything...quite the opposite in fact...to impose their ideology on others...


I agree, i should clarify what I meant in using the quote " one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter" (all be it inaccurate)i used this old cliche to illustrate the point, that Al Qaeda and its followers believe they are following a righteous path, that what they are doing is the right thing according to their beliefs, and that governments and organisations who do not believe the same are "the enemy", which america are also guilty of and the US government certainly have perpetrated acts of terrorism. So the divide between who is a terrorist and who is not is subjective and very blurred these days.

You are correct that they seek to destroy anyone that does not follow their very strict theological beliefs, but i believe it is also correct that they are infuriated by Americas treatment of what they believe to be their holy lands, occupation and bombings for example, why do they perceive america as the " head of the Devil"?

But you are right, the statement " one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter" is perhaps inaccurate and simplistic, I know what I meant to say and shouldnt have been so lazy as to summarise a complex issue like this by using a hoary old cliche. But they do seek to free their world of anyone who doesnt subscribe to their beliefs and who occupies and land they believe to be spiritually "theirs". Can you imagine what would happen if Al Qaeda decided they were going to send troops into the US or somewhere in Europe to occupy the land or station their troops there or if they decided to bomb somewhere in the US? Which again the US and UK are guilty of.

Why is one vision of the world correct and acceptable and another incorrect and unacceptable?

papabeard
I think it is incorrect to dismiss the idea that Al Qaeda are fighting against west and their treatment of the middle east as "horse manure" because this is what you state yourself, that they are trying to drive "non believers" out of their country, which is what I was also referring to.

Saudi arabia and america have a long history of economic dependendance, and both countries have huge amounts of money and business interests invested in each nation, mainly because of the massive oil reserves. I believe it is also true that they are angered by the US occupation and attacks on other middle eastern countries, such as Iraq, and I believe Bin Laden also met Saddam Hussein with a view to fighting together against america.

I dont belive the terrorist war is solely based on religious reasons.

Deano
your still quite narrow minded papabeard. both are controlled by the same force. thats what i have to try and get across to people. the war on terror is illusion. there is no real threat, its all lies. if you believe the lies which people have, then more misery is inflicted in the world. people need to turn of the tv and stop reading the papers and do some more reading which doesnt come from a bias or controlled source

would you like me to send you a good dvd on teh way the world is run?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu6pw5vtswE

good rap song.

papabeard
In which ways am I narrow minded?

Strangelove
Originally posted by Deano
its not stupid when all evidence suggests otherwise

i still find it amazing that people think that bin laden did it, when there is NO EVIDENCE.

baaaa baaaaa And what evidence is there that the Government did it, besides half-assed claims with shallow, if any, evidence?

Strangelove
I'll tell you what the 9/11 conspiracy theory is. It's what EVERY conspiracy theory is. A bunch of malcontents so pissed off at the government that they will believe anything fed to them by the head conspiracy wackos and then defend those half-assed claims to the end of the earth, just to "fight the power," even when no one else is paying attention to them. Even if there's no proof, you'll make up proof. You're so convinced that the government is evil (which it occasionally can be), that you will see things that are not there.

Strangelove
The Bush Administration ignored the warnings leading to 9/11. Once it happened, they exploited those 3000 dead to take the country into a conflict based on nothing but revenge and greed. But FFS, they did not plan it.

Deano
no conspiracy theory. all conspiracy fact. its an agenda. a new world order. its already been mentioned by george bush and other people in power.

and no they didnt just allow it to happen. the people who control the united states orchestrated it. a guy in a cave did not do it, believe me. the 9/11 attacks helped push the agenda forward.

the patheric mainstream media do nothing to research. they just get the 'info' off the politicans and then repeat it to us. jounalists are nothing more than repeaters who do nothing but parrot the official story from the government. if we had real mainstream journalism, these evil bastards could not get away with the atrocitys they commit



oh and its funny, at each of the main 3 terrorist attacks in recent years (oklahoma, 9/11, london bombings) there as been a drill at the exact same time as the attacks. why? you do the math.

and yes the people who are running the world are evil. they dont give a **** about us at all. wake the hell up and look into it yourself. when you do this and when others do this..the manipulation WILL END. YOU WILL NO LONGER BELIEVE THE LIES THEREFORE THERE CAN BE NO MORE WARS WHICH INVOLVE THOUSANDS OF DEATHS, THERE CAN BE NO MORE FREEDOMS TAKEN AWAY.

electing(they are already selected long before) presidents wont end earths woes. god help us all.

FUKIN WAKE UP.

having a different version of reality does not mean people should be branded conspiracy nuts. we all have the right to believe in what we feel is right without hassle. we're not always right but its what we believe is right.

people like papabeard are going in the right direction..he senses something is not right and is willing to investigate further. and then there is people like strangelove that are completely blind and useless. who will ridicule as if he knows everything.

check out this video

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8545585184878490822&q=future+of+mankind

Strangelove
Originally posted by Deano
and then there is people like strangelove that are completely blind and useless. who will ridicule as if he knows everything. Love you too pookie love

Kram3r
Originally posted by papabeard
we'll kram3r, it seems that this maddox fellows reasoning for debunking the conspiracy theory is that Dylan ( the film maker) and his family and friends are still alive and that the government have not shut the site down, which seems a little naive to me.

Im not making any claims as to what is true and what is false, but think about it........ perhaps if all of a sudden a filmmaker who made a doc about governmental conspiracies and his family and friends all die in mysterious circumstances, that may invite some further suspicion, also if the goverment tried to prevent this film from being seen, that implicates them and gives validity to the viewpoint contained within.

Maybe this conspiracy theory is a little too scary for maddox and yourself.

Maybe you should have bothered the check the "point-by-point" debate where there is science thrown into the mix. Also the cartoons at the beginning and end make a great case. I don't want to get too into this conspiracy crap because I find it utterly pointless, especially when people have their head so set on a conspiracy. Besides, Strangelove is doing a good job.

jaden101
Originally posted by papabeard
I think it is incorrect to dismiss the idea that Al Qaeda are fighting against west and their treatment of the middle east as "horse manure" because this is what you state yourself, that they are trying to drive "non believers" out of their country, which is what I was also referring to.

Saudi arabia and america have a long history of economic dependendance, and both countries have huge amounts of money and business interests invested in each nation, mainly because of the massive oil reserves. I believe it is also true that they are angered by the US occupation and attacks on other middle eastern countries, such as Iraq, and I believe Bin Laden also met Saddam Hussein with a view to fighting together against america.

I dont belive the terrorist war is solely based on religious reasons.

the "horse manure" comment was merely levied at the simplisitc nature of your post which you admit was not entirely accurate

the issues behind al qaeda and their ambitions is more complex than either of us know...but one thing is clear...it has no function other than to serve itself as an organization...they dont want to liberate anyone from oppressors....quite the opposits in fact...they may say they want to liberate the middle east from the west...but the fact remains that while the US influence is undeniable in the middle east, they dont run the the nations that make it up....al qaeda ambition is to impose their rule on these countries and more besides

it gets more extreme than that

there was a faction of al qaeda in Africa that were so devout to their interpretation of the islamic faith that they genuinely believed that only the 6 people who made up their faction were worthy of God and that everyone else should die

how do you make peace with people like that?

OB1-adobe
cool

NinthSith
I'm not one of them people that think's there were explosive devices in the Tower's to bring them down "the airliner's were more then capable of doing the job".Even if they wouldn't of colapsed they were both beyond repair anyway.It would simply take to many people to pull off the whole explosion thing.

But i do believe the whole event was planned out by the CIA,basically they planted a seed called "Bin Laden" that brainwashed these terrorist's to commit these act's.

Certain official's and elitist's new the attack's were going to happen but did nothing to stop it"exactly like Pearl Harbor".Our President knew about Pearl Harbor 2 week's before it happened.

Loose change is loosely based on very little fact's.

Here is a video on how N.O.R.A.D was having drill's on the day of 9/11/01 that were exactly like the terrorist's attack's.THIS IS FACT!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o11u4EW9Hn8

And this a much better documentary about 911,Loose Change is just a bunch of college kid's that made a movie on what they assumed to be the truth.Alex Jones actually dig's up the fact's and seems to make alot more sense.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6517776133137328105&q=911+the+road+to+tyranny&hl=en

NuclearWinter
Look, here's the simple fact about 9/11 folks.

The Government could have prevented it.

That's all there is to it.

Whether or not they want to use the old "We didn't know it was coming" excuse, the fact is, that while those planes were in the air, sending out distress signals, flying way off their patterns, ect. ect., the Government could have and should have sent their airforce to check things out.

Too many hours went by and the Government didn't do jack shit to prevent the disaster.

I don't want to hear the excuses. If the Presidents plane was acting funny in any way, and there were signs of distress, the airforce would have been up in the air within minutes.

But when it came to 9-11, nothing was done. NOTHING!!!!

That's really all that needs to be said.....and yes, we should blame our own Government. And we shouldn't feel bad for doing so.

What about the terrorists you say? They couldn't have done it without the miserable response that our Country's leaders mustered up.

Deano
but still..whats the difference between allowing people to die in the towers, or blowing the towers up yourself.

your a murderer either way.

NuclearWinter
Originally posted by Deano
but still..whats the difference between allowing people to die in the towers, or blowing the towers up yourself.

your a murderer either way.

Right. And in fact, of all the peculiarities, unanswered questions, and things that don't add up about the 9-11 terrorist attacks, the one aspect that keeps nagging at me revolves around our military's incredible lack of response to the hijackings of four airliners. Anyone who investigates this matter will soon find that the United States Air Force and the FAA both established procedures that have been in place for at least 25 years regarding planes that veer abnormally off course.

Specifically, the Federal law MANDATES that the Air Force must dispatch a plane to investigate why a certain craft has strayed from its predestined route. These interceptors are only allowed to shoot an airliner from the sky under orders from the President, but that doesn't negate that they are still required to investigate the situation in a timely manner.

And yet, on 9-11, NO ONE FOLLOWED ORDERS! Why? Who gave these orders? Plus, Washington, D.C. has the most restricted air space in the country, yet from 9:03 A.M., when the second tower was hit, to 9:47 A.M., when the Pentagon came under attack....when the Air Force KNEW that a jet was headed toward the Capitol, no planes were dispatched to intercept it. Who gave the orders for these planes to 'stand down', and, God forbid, were some even called back after they had taken off?

NuclearWinter
To begin understanding how apalling this situation is, we first need to know that there are at least twelve National Guard and Air Force installations in close proximity to the World Trade Center and Pentagon. Plus, Andrews Air Force Base is only ten miles from the heart of Washington, D.C. Why wasn't something done to avert this catastrophe, and why isn't the mainstream media asking some very hard questions regarding this deliberately ordered crime?

Yes, I said crime, and once you get a load of the following timeline, you'll concur with this strong terminology.

Between 7:59 A.M. - 8:10 A.M., the airliners that would ultimately crash into the WTC and the Pentagon were hijacked.

By 8:15 A.M., air traffic controllers knew that the planes were in trouble. At this point, the Air Force should have dispatched, per standard operating procedures, fighters that would determine why these jets veered from their normal route. By 8:15 A.M.!

At 8:45 A.M., - a half-hour later, American Airlines flight 11 struck the WTC's north tower. (This flight took off at exactly 7:59 A.M.), and therefore, the Government knew it was in trouble for at least 35 minutes, if not more. And they did nothing!

At 9:03 A.M., United Airlines flight 175 crashed into the South Tower. (It took off at exactly 8:10 A.M.)

At 9:05 A.M. (supposedly) Andrew Card told President Bush of the unfolding catastrophe. At the same time, American Airlines flight 77 veered off course near Chicago and headed toward Washington, D.C. for an impending attack.

At 9:06 A.M., the New York Daily News reported that on the morning of the attack, the NYPD dispatched a message declaring, "This was a terrorist attack - notify the Pentagon".

Still, NO Air Force jets had yet been scrambled! None. Why?

At 9:35 A.M., American Airlines flight 77, which had been tracked by radar all the way from Chicago, circled the Pentagon, yet this military installation was not evacuated! Plus, the Air Force still hadn't sent out any jets! How completely incredible is this scenario?

A few minutes later with the utmost precision, American Airlines flight 77 drops 7,000 feet in 2 and 1/2 minutes. It is flying so low at this point that the plane is taking out utility poles and clipping trees en route to its target. The jumbo jet finally zeroes in EXACTLY on the Pentagon while traveling at 460 knots (approx 529 mph).

Finally, at 9:40 A.M., a full hour and 31 minutes after the FAA knew that the first airliner had been hijacked.....guess what happened? The Air Force dispatched their jets!

NuclearWinter
The Pentagon was aware of these hijackings since at least 8:45 A.M., when the first tower was struck (and more likely before then), and yet it took them 55 minutes to take action. 55 minutes! By 8:15 A.M., when the FAA learned of the hijackings, federal law required that the military dispatch planes to either divert the plane's course, or determine the need to shoot them down. This is the normal procedure! But the Pentagon waited until 9:40 A.M. after all the damage was already done.

Who commanded the Air Force to stand down, and why is the media still feeding us the "incompetence" line? The Wright Brothers at Kitty Hawk could have had a plane up in the air in that much time!

Barry Zwicker, a Canadian media analyst, wrote on January 21, 2002:

"That morning no interceptors responded in a timely fashion to the highest alert situation. That includes the Andrews squadron that is only a few miles from the White House. Whatever the explanation for the huge failure, there have been no reports, to my knowledge, of reprimands. This further weakens the incompetence theory! Incompetence usually earns reprimands. This causes me to ask whether there were 'stand down' orders."

NuclearWinter
We're not being given the entire story because something doesn't add up.

Who in the mainstream media is asking these, and other, pertinent questions? No one!

Who in the Pentagon is answering these questions? No one!

Finally, who in the Pentagon has been made accountable for the Air Force stand-down? Again, no one!

Do you think it's time our Government and the media started addressing these issues? I do.

Grimm22
Crazy and stupid

Deano
yes you are

NinthSith
I posted on the last page that N.O.R.A.D was having drill's that were exactly like the event's of 9/11/01 month's before it happened.On the morning of 9/11/01 N.O.R.A.D was having the same exact drill as the event that was taking place.

You ask who was in charge of N.O.R.A.D that day? Dick Cheney was garnted special power's to be in charge of N.O.R.A.D. about 5 month's prior to 9/11/01.This is the first time in the 50+year's of N.O.R.A.D. that someone other then a high ranking USA military official has been in charge of the defense of our skie's.

Dick Cheney ordered N.O.R.A.D. to "stand down" that day.

There were no explosive's in the tower's,anyone who believes that doesn't have much common sense.It takes month's and alot of manpower to set up explosive's.Someone would of leaked info about setting up explosives by now,there would simply have to be to many people involved and who in there right mind would allow themselves to set up explosives to kill thousand's"it simply takes to many people to pull it off"

Believing a bunch of kid's who were barely out of high school that made a conspiracy movie "loose change" is ignorant.Although i give them credit for opening people's mind's.

The airliner's alone is all that was needed to take down those tower's,even if they wouldnt have fallen they would of had to been demolished anyway.

Certain official's and and the world's elitist's new the attack was going to happen and did nothing about it so they could take advantage of it.It is possible that the C.I.A may of orhestrated it but that's really as far as it goe's.

Here's the Dick Cheney/N.O.R.A.D video again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o11u4EW9Hn8

jaden101
Originally posted by NuclearWinter
To begin understanding how apalling this situation is, we first need to know that there are at least twelve National Guard and Air Force installations in close proximity to the World Trade Center and Pentagon. Plus, Andrews Air Force Base is only ten miles from the heart of Washington, D.C. Why wasn't something done to avert this catastrophe, and why isn't the mainstream media asking some very hard questions regarding this deliberately ordered crime?

Yes, I said crime, and once you get a load of the following timeline, you'll concur with this strong terminology.

Between 7:59 A.M. - 8:10 A.M., the airliners that would ultimately crash into the WTC and the Pentagon were hijacked.

By 8:15 A.M., air traffic controllers knew that the planes were in trouble. At this point, the Air Force should have dispatched, per standard operating procedures, fighters that would determine why these jets veered from their normal route. By 8:15 A.M.!

At 8:45 A.M., - a half-hour later, American Airlines flight 11 struck the WTC's north tower. (This flight took off at exactly 7:59 A.M.), and therefore, the Government knew it was in trouble for at least 35 minutes, if not more. And they did nothing!

your assumptions are based on non facts...just because air traffic control become aware of a hijack situation does not mean the military become aware because civil aviation and military aviation are 2 entirely different entities...

the reality is this

On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked--the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.

Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them.

NinthSith
Originally posted by jaden101
your assumptions are based on non facts...just because air traffic control become aware of a hijack situation does not mean the military become aware because civil aviation and military aviation are 2 entirely different entities...

the reality is this

On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked--the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.

Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them. [/QUOTE


BS^^^^ 14 fighter's in the whole USA?,NORAD stood down and was operating drills that were exactly like the events taking place at the same exact time.The odd's of that are like 1 in a billion.Click that link i posted or do a Google search cause there is alot of info about it.

Deano
yes and the same happened at oklahoma and london bombings.
but hey its just a coincidence, nothin to worry about roll eyes (sarcastic)

NuclearWinter
Originally posted by jaden101
your assumptions are based on non facts...

Point of fact Jaden.

Dick Cheney wasn't a high ranking military official when he gave the order for the Air Force to stand down. And my question for you would be, WHY DID HE GIVE THE ORDER? Thousands of Americans are dead because of it.

Again, this is not a conspiracy theory.

These are facts.

Did the Air Force respond at all when those planes were in the air? Did they or didn't they? Where is the conspiracy theory that you speak of? All I see are FACTS.

NuclearWinter
I don't care what airport is packed. Watch what happens if the President's plane (AirForceOne) is ever endangered in any way whatsoever.

Watch how quickly the Air Force will scramble together to get in the air.

Now look at what happened on 9-11. You do the math partner.

Perhaps it wasn't your family members that died on 9-11 in the towers. But it was somebody elses. And those people should be furious about the Government NOT RESPONDING IN ANY WAY to the signs of distress and strange deviations of flight patterns when the FAA AND the Air Force both knew what was going on before it even happened.

So keep telling me excuses for why they didn't perform and go ahead and keep telling me why the order was given for the Air Force to stand down.

"Stand down Air Force", lets watch and see what happens!

NuclearWinter
How about getting off their asses and up in the air to check out the situation? Rather than watching it all unfold on television!

Is that too much to ask from our Air Force? Oh wait, I forgot, the Air Force didn't have a choice, Cheney told them to stay on the ground during the entire process!

Well, let me give them some credit, they did manage to get up in the air eventually. After everyone was dead.

jaden101
there's only a lot of info about it because people like you believe it and continue to peddle it around the internet as if it were fact

the fact that i posted what the actual people involved has publicly stated as opposed to what some conspiracy theorists said apparently makes no difference though

therfore i suggest you read

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

Mr Parker
Originally posted by papabeard
www.loosechange911.com/

Hopefully someones already posted about this.

Its a documentary suggesting that the american government was responsible for carrying out the 9/11 attacks.

You may be sceptical but I hope you will watch it and make your own mind up.

You can watch it from the site, i think it utilises goggle video.

If you have not seen this , i would suggest you do.

Let me know what you think.

www.loosechange911.com/

yeah thats a great documentary.it amazes me the people that have come on here posting saying theres nothing to it.people here are so much in denial about this because the truth scares them that they will belive the propagande and lies by the government no matter how absurd and crazy they are and defend it now matter how absurd the governments THEORYS are that Bin Laden was behind it.the conspiracy theorists are the people who peddle that fairy tale that it wasnt the american government behind it all.

Mr Parker
Originally posted by Deano
no conspiracy theory. all conspiracy fact. its an agenda. a new world order. its already been mentioned by george bush and other people in power.

and no they didnt just allow it to happen. the people who control the united states orchestrated it. a guy in a cave did not do it, believe me. the 9/11 attacks helped push the agenda forward.

the patheric mainstream media do nothing to research. they just get the 'info' off the politicans and then repeat it to us. jounalists are nothing more than repeaters who do nothing but parrot the official story from the government. if we had real mainstream journalism, these evil bastards could not get away with the atrocitys they commit



oh and its funny, at each of the main 3 terrorist attacks in recent years (oklahoma, 9/11, london bombings) there as been a drill at the exact same time as the attacks. why? you do the math.

and yes the people who are running the world are evil. they dont give a **** about us at all. wake the hell up and look into it yourself. when you do this and when others do this..the manipulation WILL END. YOU WILL NO LONGER BELIEVE THE LIES THEREFORE THERE CAN BE NO MORE WARS WHICH INVOLVE THOUSANDS OF DEATHS, THERE CAN BE NO MORE FREEDOMS TAKEN AWAY.

electing(they are already selected long before) presidents wont end earths woes. god help us all.

FUKIN WAKE UP.

having a different version of reality does not mean people should be branded conspiracy nuts. we all have the right to believe in what we feel is right without hassle. we're not always right but its what we believe is right.

people like papabeard are going in the right direction..he senses something is not right and is willing to investigate further. and then there is people like strangelove that are completely blind and useless. who will ridicule as if he knows everything.

check out this video

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-8545585184878490822&q=future+of+mankind

well done Deano.as usual you and Winter have done a great job educating these people and taking them to school. thumb up it amazes me the gullibity of some people here like using popular mechanics as its source to back up their wild claims that theres no evidence there was no government involvement.Popular mechanics has NEVER been an objective source.they have always been a propaganda piece for the government.yeah its good to see that there are people like papabeard who are waking up to this sensing that there is something not quite right and unlike some of these others,willing to be open minded about it and investigate and actually listen to credible sources like loose change.Nice to see that hes not close minded and completely blind about it like strangelove and jaden who like you said,ridicules credible sources like loose change as if they know everything.

Strangelove
Originally posted by Mr Parker
ridicules credible sources like loose change as if they know everything. I'm sorry.....credible sources like Loose Change? It's a shitty documentary filled with a bunch of tenuous (at best) claims. roll eyes (sarcastic)

Mr Parker
Originally posted by NinthSith
I posted on the last page that N.O.R.A.D was having drill's that were exactly like the event's of 9/11/01 month's before it happened.On the morning of 9/11/01 N.O.R.A.D was having the same exact drill as the event that was taking place.

You ask who was in charge of N.O.R.A.D that day? Dick Cheney was garnted special power's to be in charge of N.O.R.A.D. about 5 month's prior to 9/11/01.This is the first time in the 50+year's of N.O.R.A.D. that someone other then a high ranking USA military official has been in charge of the defense of our skie's.

Dick Cheney ordered N.O.R.A.D. to "stand down" that day.

There were no explosive's in the tower's,anyone who believes that doesn't have much common sense.It takes month's and alot of manpower to set up explosive's.Someone would of leaked info about setting up explosives by now,there would simply have to be to many people involved and who in there right mind would allow themselves to set up explosives to kill thousand's"it simply takes to many people to pull it off"

Believing a bunch of kid's who were barely out of high school that made a conspiracy movie "loose change" is ignorant.Although i give them credit for opening people's mind's.

The airliner's alone is all that was needed to take down those tower's,even if they wouldnt have fallen they would of had to been demolished anyway.

Certain official's and and the world's elitist's new the attack was going to happen and did nothing about it so they could take advantage of it.It is possible that the C.I.A may of orhestrated it but that's really as far as it goe's.

Here's the Dick Cheney/N.O.R.A.D video again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o11u4EW9Hn8

wake up and smell the folgers.its not going to take months to do it.There are people who to them,killing people means as little to them as it does for us to step on an ant. roll eyes (sarcastic) No anybody who doesnt believe there were explosives doesnt have any common sense.Just one week prior to it all,the bomb squad doges were all called off and there were evacuation drills being done in the towers according to the survivors.perfect time to have many people in there planting the explosives.your also forgetting that George Bushs cousin was in charge of security for the towers.Yeah Dick cheney ordered them to stand down because he did not want the fighters to shoot down the planes that were going to ram into the towers.Cheney is involved in this up to his ears.you talk as though its impossible for people to keep secrets with that crazy notion that somone would have leaked it by now that they helped set off explosives.No the airliners alone could not have takedn down the towers.the towers were designed to withstand that kind of impact although people here dont want to believe it and will listen to the tales given to them by the government.Leslie Robertsonthe designer is even on tape inititally saying they were built to withstand the impact.Later on he changed his story because the government obviously got to him.

Mr Parker
Originally posted by Strangelove
I'm sorry.....credible sources like Loose Change? It's a shitty documentary filled with a bunch of tenuous (at best) claims. roll eyes (sarcastic)

someone like you who is so close minded it doesnt surprise me to hear that from YOU.however thankfully I know many people who initally they could not believe it when i told them to not to listen to the official version and that it was the government behind it all,they did not listen to me at first but thankfully they are logical enough people who after they checked out that video,they were smart enough to come to their senses that 9-11 was indeed an inside job.For a long time they would not listen to me but thankfully unlike you,they have enough smarts to now know it was an inside job because that video changed their minds when they checked it out.

jaden101
Originally posted by Mr Parker
well done Deano.as usual you and Winter have done a great job educating these people and taking them to school. thumb up it amazes me the gullibity of some people here like using popular mechanics as its source to back up their wild claims that theres no evidence there was no government involvement.Popular mechanics has NEVER been an objective source.they have always been a propaganda piece for the government.yeah its good to see that there are people like papabeard who are waking up to this sensing that there is something not quite right and unlike some of these others,willing to be open minded about it and investigate and actually listen to credible sources like loose change.Nice to see that hes not close minded and completely blind about it like strangelove and jaden who like you said,ridicules credible sources like loose change as if they know everything.

hahaha...you're a funny man aren't you?

i honestly cant tell whether you're being sarcastic or not...very good youngster...you'll go far

papabeard
Did anyone see the doc on BBC2 on sunday night, refuting many of the facts in Loose Change and from other sources in the 9/11 conspiracy movement?

Just wondering what people thought of the facts used to discredit the claims made in Loose Change.

jaden101
come again?

Help
Originally posted by Strangelove
Crazy and stupid

Bicnarok
Seen this many times, even downloaded the DVD.
Excellent!!

The world is not what it seems, its about time people woke up..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8753934454816686947&q=the+money+masters

papabeard
Originally posted by jaden101
come again?

yeah, let me rephrase that "points" or " "claims" raised in loose change.

osama

papabeard
here is a link to an article analysing loose change, you might find it interesting.

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/green/loose_change.html

Ana P
This Video Pretty Much Sums Up Everything

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