Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Is metal awful?

Depends on the band, obviously. On the whole, no.

No genre is awful or good inherently.

-AC

I agree with both of the posts above me... hmm

To say metal is awful would be to say bands making good metal are awful.

To say metal is good would be to say bands are making good metal music simply because they make metal.

Hence why I've never seen the point of pledging myself to a genre. I love music, some of that is metal.

-AC

Good/awful are point of views, so it can't really be anything...

Metal rocks

Possibly, the greatest, most diverse form of music I can think of.

It's not, is it?

Look at the current metal music scene, or metal music ever, and then look at pop music, and tell me metal is more diverse.

Regardless of how shit pop can be, it has more kinds of sounds in it than metal.

-AC

metal has more faceless/generic bands than many genres, i think.

i don't really like black/power/death, but heavy and experimental are fine by me.

In my early teens I loved metal. However, I now really cannot stand to listen to it or even hear mention of it in the same sentance as good music. So in my opinion yes it is awful, I prefer the genres of rock and indy although there's alot of shit like Razorlight and The Frattelis amongst them.

I used to like metal when I was about 13. It's no coincidence that the kid I know who can't do the alphabet listens to metal, the kid I know who dropped out of college twice in 2 years listens to metal and the 18 year old I know who hangs out with 14 year olds and who pissed himself in school lessons listened to metal.

I gave up on metal long ago in favour of proper music.

Originally posted by pcp
I used to like metal when I was about 13. It's no coincidence that the kid I know who can't do the alphabet listens to metal, the kid I know who dropped out of college twice in 2 years listens to metal and the 18 year old I know who hangs out with 14 year olds and who pissed himself in school lessons listened to metal.

I gave up on metal long ago in favour of proper music.

You were probably listening to shit bands.

Some metal is alright....But I prefer not to listen to guys who like to scream incoherently for 3-4 minutes.

Originally posted by pcp
I used to like metal when I was about 13. It's no coincidence that the kid I know who can't do the alphabet listens to metal, the kid I know who dropped out of college twice in 2 years listens to metal and the 18 year old I know who hangs out with 14 year olds and who pissed himself in school lessons listened to metal.

I gave up on metal long ago in favour of proper music.

What is "proper" music?

Originally posted by Arctic
Some metal is alright....But I prefer not to listen to guys who like to scream incoherently for 3-4 minutes.

Is that your view of all heavy metal? Because if so, it's terribly flawed.

I know not all metal is like that, which is why I said I like "some" metal. But I dont like the kind that is just screaming.

Heavy metal, especially the roots bands like LZ, Deep Purple, Blue Oyster Cult, and Black Sabbath are some of my favourite bands. A lot of metal is good, a lot is crap to me (like Cradle of Filth). A lot of friends like endless screaming and growling which I hate. This is a subjective question really.

Originally posted by pcp
I used to like metal when I was about 13. It's no coincidence that the kid I know who can't do the alphabet listens to metal, the kid I know who dropped out of college twice in 2 years listens to metal and the 18 year old I know who hangs out with 14 year olds and who pissed himself in school lessons listened to metal.

I gave up on metal long ago in favour of proper music.
Congrats...
Now you know an 18 year old Honor Student at a prestigious university, who held a job all through High school...
Who also listens to metal...


I hate stereotypes...

Originally posted by pcp
I used to like metal when I was about 13. It's no coincidence that the kid I know who can't do the alphabet listens to metal, the kid I know who dropped out of college twice in 2 years listens to metal and the 18 year old I know who hangs out with 14 year olds and who pissed himself in school lessons listened to metal.

I gave up on metal long ago in favour of proper music.
Oh yeah!

I apologize in advance...(casue I know this will surely bug the s%#* out of some of you), but what the above guy is saying has quite a bit of truth to it...

My statement: I think that more than most any other genre of music, Metal is something that people can be more inclined to clearly (and definitively) outgrow...

The reason: It's because Metal and it's variants, more than most other types of music, has at its core the emotion of (primarily) anger that makes it what it is...it is its most appealing attribute.

If the anger in the music begins to no longer reflect what's in your maturing psyche, mind, heart, whatever, then the desire to listen to it wanes...and it may even become fully unappealing. But again, this is depending on if you ARE advancing, maturing, growing and generally becoming a better, wiser human being.

But I'd say that even then, it's not an absolute. For the most MOST part though, that's what the deal is.

BTW. This has nothing to do with Metal being bad music, and the fact that it is so creative, exciting, and technically astonishing can make it hard to ignore if you've ever been turned on by it. There is lots there besides the feel that give it redeeming qualities, but as I already said, it's the feel that is Metal's most connecting attribute. And funnily enough...there just aren't that many people that Metal seems to appeal to as they get older, wiser, and more mature.


Be kind...

It's a generalisation that there aren't many people who like metal as they get older. Maybe from your perspective.

-AC

That was nice. Thank you AC!

I won't argue anyone's point though...respectin' the thread.

You guys want to hear some good metal bands then listen to Metallica (old) and Megadeth. Those are some kick ass metal bands.

Wo! Hold on...did everybody get those names?

M...Metallica?...and Megadeth.....but the OLD stuff!


Awsome, thanks!







...sorry

Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
Wo! Hold on...did everybody get those names?

M...Metallica?...and Megadeth.....but the OLD stuff!


Awsome, thanks!







...sorry

LMAO!!!Thats gotta be one of the funniest posts I've ever read.

On topic!Metal is not awful, that entire arguement is rubbish.Anyone who thinks lowly of metal and those who listen to it are nothing but garbage.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Possibly, the greatest, most diverse form of music I can think of. No, not really. Don't get me wrong I love Metal.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
No, not really. Don't get me wrong I love Metal.

Find me another genre that commonly has divisions that fuses itself with Folk, Classical, Electronica, Funk, Jazz, and/or Punk.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Find me another genre that commonly has divisions that fuses itself with Folk, Classical, Electronica, Funk, Jazz, and/or Punk.

Rock, and rock came first, without rock metal would not be.

Metal is slowly becoming the single most repetitive genre there is.

Pop is more diverse than metal right now. Now, while your reactionary blood may boil at that notion, it's actually quite true. Whether or not the music is good, it's still more diverse.

Metal is "the most diverse" to those like you who think creating billions of labels makes it so. The music itself really doesn't have as much variation as other genres.

So, it's the most creative genre because it steals from other genres? Surely "metal" as a whole is not that creative then.

Why do you think the best metal bands don't actually stay "pure" for very long? Opeth? Emperor? Metallica? Slayer? Dillinger? Mastodon?

The reason is because metal in general is, far from being diverse, a very restrictive genre. Hence why many bands incorporate their music with other flavours to become more. All it takes is sense to realise this, but I recognise this may be a tall order.

Master of Puppets by Metallica is regarded as one of the best general metal albums ever, but that is not pure metal, it has acoustic elements to it. Calculating Infinity by The Dillinger Escape Plan? Lots of jazz influence. Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk by Emperor? Lots of classical and orchestral music. Leviathan or Blood Mountain by Mastodon? Lots of early "grunge" and progressive rock influence.

While metal albums they may be, they are not purely so. Because any "pure" metal band is most likely shit, like Mortician, or Immortal, or even early Emperor, while good, was rather dull in comparison to when Ihsahn branched out. Opeth are at the point where it can be argued that they're not even metal anymore.

So no, you're really quite wrong.

-AC

Ghost Reveries was definitely metal. Opeth sometimes goes into rock, but they are still producing metal songs for now.

None of their songs is without a section that is undeniably a rock arrangement, or performance.

Then they've had an album that wasn't even metal.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
None of their songs is without a section that is undeniably a rock arrangement, or performance.

Then they've had an album that wasn't even metal.

-AC Damnation definitely wasn't, parts of Deliverance definitely weren't, but Ghost Reveries still had plenty.

When it comes down to it, NO genre is diverse or innovative.

Musicians are, not genres. Genres are just labels.

Rock isn't innovative because Prince is the man, Prince is innovative, not rock. Nickelback are rock, so it's stupid to say any genre is inherently diverse or innovative.

Musicians are diverse, genres aren't.

-AC

I'd agree with that. And I'd say the cause of a lot of generic garbage in metal is the creation of so many sub-genres that pigeon hole bands.

It's always enough for me to say "Metal" or "Rock", me using those doesn't mean I'm lumping all bands together, I can tell the difference, I don't think they're the same.

It's just stupid.

Notice how there are always "sellouts" in metal, according to metalheads? Why? Because they notice that a band starts out "pure", the band think "F*cking wait, this is very boring.", evolve their sound and the fans get pissed.

-AC

Originally posted by pcp
Is metal awful? IMO, no.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Rock, and rock came first, without rock metal would not be.

Metal is slowly becoming the single most repetitive genre there is.

Pop is more diverse than metal right now. Now, while your reactionary blood may boil at that notion, it's actually quite true. Whether or not the music is good, it's still more diverse.

Metal is "the most diverse" to those like you who think creating billions of labels makes it so. The music itself really doesn't have as much variation as other genres.

So, it's the most creative genre because it steals from other genres? Surely "metal" as a whole is not that creative then.

Why do you think the best metal bands don't actually stay "pure" for very long? Opeth? Emperor? Metallica? Slayer? Dillinger? Mastodon?

The reason is because metal in general is, far from being diverse, a very restrictive genre. Hence why many bands incorporate their music with other flavours to become more. All it takes is sense to realise this, but I recognise this may be a tall order.

Master of Puppets by Metallica is regarded as one of the best general metal albums ever, but that is not pure metal, it has acoustic elements to it. Calculating Infinity by The Dillinger Escape Plan? Lots of jazz influence. Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk by Emperor? Lots of classical and orchestral music. Leviathan or Blood Mountain by Mastodon? Lots of early "grunge" and progressive rock influence.

While metal albums they may be, they are not purely so. Because any "pure" metal band is most likely shit, like Mortician, or Immortal, or even early Emperor, while good, was rather dull in comparison to when Ihsahn branched out. Opeth are at the point where it can be argued that they're not even metal anymore.

So no, you're really quite wrong.

-AC

Dude. Calm the hell down. Was I being literal when I said "most diverse"? No. I am fully aware other genres of music are filled to the brim with diversity. However, being able to find complete opposites in tempo, vocal style, themes, etc. upon several msucial fusions like folk and classical counts as diversity, does it not?

To put it simply, I was just saying something nice about a genre of music I like by complimenting on an aspect of it. You see, not everything I say is a debate. I do not hold myself absolute, but I will defen what I say. I was not saying "METAL IS SUPERIOR BECAUSE IT IS THE MOST DIVERSE AND DIFFERENT FORM Of MUSIC EVER AND ANYONE WHO SAYD OTHERWISE SHALL EXPECT A WAVE OF HATE LETTERS AND FLAMES!!". I was simply exaggerating a bit to get my point across on why I love metal.

It was just supposed to be a friendly post, yet you have to come along and God knows, whenever you see me post, either your blood boils or you just find it as another way to jack off to your own ego and how you're the God of all music. Probably both.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Dude. Calm the hell down. Was I being literal when I said "most diverse"? No. I am fully aware other genres of music are filled to the brim with diversity. However, being able to find complete opposites in tempo, vocal style, themes, etc. upon several msucial fusions like folk and classical counts as diversity, does it not?

To put it simply, I was just saying something nice about a genre of music I like by complimenting on an aspect of it. You see, not everything I say is a debate. I do not hold myself absolute, but I will defen what I say. I was not saying "METAL IS SUPERIOR BECAUSE IT IS THE MOST DIVERSE AND DIFFERENT FORM Of MUSIC EVER AND ANYONE WHO SAYD OTHERWISE SHALL EXPECT A WAVE OF HATE LETTERS AND FLAMES!!". I was simply exaggerating a bit to get my point across on why I love metal.

It was just supposed to be a friendly post, yet you have to come along and God knows, whenever you see me post, either your blood boils or you just find it as another way to jack off to your own ego and how you're the God of all music. Probably both.

I've never claimed I'm the god of anything, not once. I'm one of the only people on this site that hasn't actually claimed that about myself, everyone else seems to get that out of my posts, so thanks.

On topic, you exaggerated a point, gave no indication you were doing so and even challenged someone to prove you wrong when he disagreed with your initial "It's the most diverse!" comment. I did so, quite emphatically, and now you're upset.

My advice is; deal.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I've never claimed I'm the god of anything, not once. I'm one of the only people on this site that hasn't actually claimed that about myself, everyone else seems to get that out of my posts, so thanks.

On topic, you exaggerated a point, gave no indication you were doing so and even challenged someone to prove you wrong when he disagreed with your initial "It's the most diverse!" comment. I did so, quite emphatically, and now you're upset.

My advice is; deal.

-AC

Oh, please. Do you think my reply to Violent2Dope was hostile backlash? It sounded to me like he was saying "metal isn't very diverse", but that's just the internet. Communcation mishaps on the web is commonplace and can lead to misunderstandings as it did here. If V2D was taking my quote literally as well, then I apologize. And I wasn't getting "upset" because you tried to prove me wrong. It's simply because you put so much effort into these little things.
You see everything as a chance for a debate. And, having my pride, I naturally have to engage. And thanks to you, we end up going on these heated, extensive debates that spam several pages, simply because you couldn't say "I disagree." And have at least a friendly debate. No. Instead, you write an entire essay on why I'm wrong and why I'm a retard and attack me personally, simply because we have different views on ****ING MUSICAL GENRES.

No, you don't have to engage. That's your responsibility, not mine. Don't moan about debates when you don't have the self-control to stay clear of any.

If you can show me where I wrote an essay on why you're a retard or where I attacked you personally, in that reply, do so.

-AC

I love that post, about metal being the most diverse genre. What a load of bollocks.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, you don't have to engage. That's your responsibility, not mine. Don't moan about debates when you don't have the self-control to stay clear of any.

If you can show me where I wrote an essay on why you're a retard or where I attacked you personally, in that reply, do so.

-AC

Don't BS me. You know what you say in your posts. You know quite well you're prone to insulting people's intellect based on differing viewpoints.
For instance, I am not having a conversation with Violent2Dope on if Korn is still metal. The debate, so far, has consisted of smaller, mor organized responses without "OH YEAH, WELL YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY A 12-YEAR OLD! GTFO I HAVE MORE PRIORITY OVER YOU, BUT I REFUSE TO STATE WHY!"

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
I love that post, about metal being the most diverse genre. What a load of bollocks.

See: My previous post.

What, the one where you go on about conversations with Violent2Dope? Doesn't really seem relevant.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Don't BS me. You know what you say in your posts. You know quite well you're prone to insulting people's intellect based on differing viewpoints.

No, don't BS ME. You said I wrote an essay about you being a retard and attacking you personally.

Find it, quote it, post it, or alternatively don't make claims that aren't true. The conclusion to be drawn is that you got that out of my post, it wasn't actually there. Don't read between the lines, read the actual ones. The ones where there was no "retard" or personal attacks.

If there were, quote me.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
For instance, I am not having a conversation with Violent2Dope on if Korn is still metal. The debate, so far, has consisted of smaller, mor organized responses without "OH YEAH, WELL YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY A 12-YEAR OLD! GTFO I HAVE MORE PRIORITY OVER YOU, BUT I REFUSE TO STATE WHY!"

Did I say that? Quote me, again, if these comments are in my post.

Because as far as I'm aware, I posted a reply of reasonable length and fairly countered your argument, which you then admitted you didn't mean anyway.

So if you cannot reply with quotes to prove I'm saying all this, don't tell me I'm saying it.

-AC

Originally posted by chillmeistergen
What, the one where you go on about conversations with Violent2Dope? Doesn't really seem relevant.

No, the one about me exaggerating to express my enthusiasm. However, if you're saying the keyword was "diverse", instead of "most", I'd have to say that's the real bollocks.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, don't BS ME. You said I wrote an essay about you being a retard and attacking you personally.

Find it, quote it, post it, or alternatively don't make claims that aren't true. The conclusion to be drawn is that you got that out of my post, it wasn't actually there. Don't read between the lines, read the actual ones. The ones where there was no "retard" or personal attacks.

If there were, quote me.



Did I say that? Quote me, again, if these comments are in my post.

Because as far as I'm aware, I posted a reply of reasonable length and fairly countered your argument, which you then admitted you didn't mean anyway.

So if you cannot reply with quotes to prove I'm saying all this, don't tell me I'm saying it.

-AC

Either your culture has no concept of sarcasm or exaggeration to make a point, or you think taking everything literally and picking apart every minor detail to sidetrack a conversation is a clever debating tactic. I'm not going to play your game. I refuse to invest another ounce of energy in this debate, just so you can run it around in circles and ensure that it never ends, so you don't have to even think about the concept that you may, in fact, be wrong.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Either your culture has no concept of sarcasm or exaggeration to make a point, or you think taking everything literally and picking apart every minor detail to sidetrack a conversation is a clever debating tactic. I'm not going to play your game. I refuse to invest another ounce of energy in this debate, just so you can run it around in circles and ensure that it never ends, so you don't have to even think about the concept that you may, in fact, be wrong.

Here's the deal; don't say things you can't back up and then you...won't have to try and won't end up looking silly.

Sarcasm? I know it. Weaselling? Not part of my arsenal.

I didn't sidetrack anything, you made a remark that someone disagreed with and you asked them to prove you wrong. If you knew your initial claim was wrong anyway, why ask someone to do so? You wanted simple, one line replies and you got an irrefutable amount of evidence telling you how you were wrong.

You then tried to weasel, claiming you never meant it, but your actions suggest otherwise.

Stop trying the tired, cowardly tactic of "You're too scared to admit you're wrong.". I'm not, you know I'm not, I know I'm not. You made a claim, I countered it in a manner you disliked, a manner you couldn't reply to, and now you're upset.

Deal.

-AC

I personally do not like Nu Metal, out of all the stuff I've heard.

I like death metal, and some black metal however.

On the rare chance that I listen to death metal it is usually the melodic sort that I choose. Heartwork and Swansong era Carcass, Hypocrisy, Dark Tranquility, and Opeth are about all I can listen too and enjoy.

The only metal I hate are the kind where all the guitarists do is wail on all the strings every stroke(any dumbshit can do that), the drummer just for the most part beats on the cymbols, and the vocalist screams in the roughest voice he can make.

Originally posted by Violent2Dope
The only metal I hate are the kind where all the guitarists do is wail on all the strings every stroke(any dumbshit can do that), the drummer just for the most part beats on the cymbols, and the vocalist screams in the roughest voice he can make.

You mean Grindcore?

Well they are actually playing the instruments better than someone who...can't play them, so to say anybody could do it is a bit of a stretch.

-AC

Cannibal Corpse has an amazing guitarist... and their bass player is one of the most skilled in the world, ever...

I'm very fond of metal, so not to me, no.

Regards, Yvonne

Heh, I love metal.

I've been in different metal bands since I was 13. To give an example of the diversity, when I started playing in a band, we more of an Iron Maiden sort of gig...but when Nu Metal started showing up (ie Korn, Slipknot, Mudvayne, etc) we changed tempos completely and became a "Nu Metal band." Given this was during early High School, so Nu Metal appealed to our teenage angst like no other...

...two years later, I hated nu metal. The appeal was gone, and like someone else pointed out, we all kind of outgrew the pysche that loved hearing how we were so miserable and how we wanted to hate and kill everything. We eventually mixed it up a bit and went back to our roots, now having a more Shadows Fall/Children of Bodom band.

Again our tastes changed, and I dug out some old Black Metal LPs I had from Norway, and none of the guys had really heard it before. They took a liking to it quickly, and soon became an Emperor/Immortal/Gorgoroth-esque band. Once the stuck-in-a-windtunnel sound of older black metal got too redundent, we moved on to our current band, Stonehaven, which is a melodic Viking/Folk metal band (ie Einherjer, Ensiferum, etc).

Bottom line I guess is metal has something for everyone...any taste, any personality, any lifestyle.

Whether you're a symphony major in college, or a hood-rat looking to beat a guy's ass with a baseball bat, metal's got a home for you...

Originally posted by MightyEInherjar
Heh, I love metal.

I've been in different metal bands since I was 13. To give an example of the diversity, when I started playing in a band, we more of an Iron Maiden sort of gig...but when Nu Metal started showing up (ie Korn, Slipknot, Mudvayne, etc) we changed tempos completely and became a "Nu Metal band." Given this was during early High School, so Nu Metal appealed to our teenage angst like no other...

...two years later, I hated nu metal. The appeal was gone, and like someone else pointed out, we all kind of outgrew the pysche that loved hearing how we were so miserable and how we wanted to hate and kill everything. We eventually mixed it up a bit and went back to our roots, now having a more Shadows Fall/Children of Bodom band.

Again our tastes changed, and I dug out some old Black Metal LPs I had from Norway, and none of the guys had really heard it before. They took a liking to it quickly, and soon became an Emperor/Immortal/Gorgoroth-esque band. Once the stuck-in-a-windtunnel sound of older black metal got too redundent, we moved on to our current band, Stonehaven, which is a melodic Viking/Folk metal band (ie Einherjer, Ensiferum, etc).

Bottom line I guess is metal has something for everyone...any taste, any personality, any lifestyle.

Whether you're a symphony major in college, or a hood-rat looking to beat a guy's ass with a baseball bat, metal's got a home for you...

Yeah, because it steals from everywhere else.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, because it steals from everywhere else.

-AC



I guess that's one way of putting it.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Yeah, because it steals from everywhere else.

-AC

Why must you be so negetive?

Hey EInherjar, has your band recorded? I'm in a Viking Folk band, myself and I'd like to see what our generation is doing with the genre.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Why must you be so negetive?

I'm being truthful.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I'm being truthful.

-AC

Yes, but in a negetive way. "Stealing" is a negetive term, when you could simply say "influenced" and it's basically the same thing.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Yes, but in a negetive way. "Stealing" is a negetive term, when you could simply say "influenced" and it's basically the same thing.

It's negAtive to you. It doesn't matter does it? It's basically the same thing. You're bothered because you have a blind love for metal, not my problem.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's negAtive to you. It doesn't matter does it? It's basically the same thing. You're bothered because you have a blind love for metal, not my problem.

-AC

I'm pretty sure most people consider "steal" a negetive term. I'm also aware you probably know that too and you're just trying to start something.

No, really, you're just taking it personal.

YOU replied to ME.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
No, really, you're just taking it personal.

YOU replied to ME.

-AC

I'm not taking it personal. I'd just like to know why you'd consider it stealing instead of influencing. Or do you say that about all other forms of music?
"Yeah... Rock stole a bunch from Blues... That's how it was made. Through theft." Sounds like something you would say?

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I'm not taking it personal. I'd just like to know why you'd consider it stealing instead of influencing. Or do you say that about all other forms of music?
"Yeah... Rock stole a bunch from Blues... That's how it was made. Through theft." Sounds like something you would say?

You're taking it too seriously, and now YOU are trying to start something because you're whiney about metal.

If it's the same thing to you, why are you so persistent in trying to get me to use a word that you like? You're taking it personal cos you don't like anybody saying anything that isn't overly positive about metal.

Deal with it.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
You're taking it too seriously, and now YOU are trying to start something because you're whiney about metal.

If it's the same thing to you, why are you so persistent in trying to get me to use a word that you like? You're taking it personal cos you don't like anybody saying anything that isn't overly positive about metal.

Deal with it.

-AC

It's not quite the same to me. Or anyone for that matter. You used the word "steal", instead of influenced. To me, it sounded like you were trying to shoot the kid down. I asked why. Suddenly, you're going on about how I'm whiney and I should "deal." I'm not getting angry or and 'whiney' over anything. I'd just like to know what your beef is with everyone. Are you on your period? If so, then I understand completely.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
It's not quite the same to me. Or anyone for that matter. You used the word "steal", instead of influenced. To me, it sounded like you were trying to shoot the kid down. I asked why. Suddenly, you're going on about how I'm whiney and I should "deal." I'm not getting angry or and 'whiney' over anything. I'd just like to know what your beef is with everyone. Are you on your period? If so, then I understand completely.

Wait. Let's go over the dynamics of this.

I make a comment to a kid that you interpret as me shooting him down intentionally, followed by an assumption that I have a beef with "everyone", followed by the very childish question "Are you on your period?", with the implication being that I am the one with the problem? You accused me of trying to "start something". This is most peculiar since you replied to me about something I said, purely for the reason that you didn't like the way I did it. To that I will say, as the French do; le toughe shite.

Is this because I tore apart your argument previously, because you made a comment so utterly ridiculous that you retracted it, then in a huff, proclaimed you'd never debate with me again? Because if that's the case, you're breaking that.

So now that your overly emotional defense of metal has brought us here (And that is what's brought us here), let's review your "It's not quite the same to me.", comment;

Originally posted by Bardiel13
It's not quite the same to me. Or anyone for that matter.

That'd be reasonable if you hadn't previously said;

Originally posted by Bardiel13
"Stealing" is a negetive term, when you could simply say "influenced" and it's basically the same thing.

So as you can see, you've brought this upon yourself with yet another wave of contradiction and melodrama.

Once again; deal with it. You made this bigger than it needed to be, you replied to ME after explicitly saying you have no interest in debating with me, and then accuse me of starting something.

Get over it, boy.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Wait. Let's go over the dynamics of this.

I make a comment to a kid that you interpret as me shooting him down intentionally, followed by an assumption that I have a beef with "everyone", followed by the very childish question "Are you on your period?", with the implication being that I am the one with the problem? You accused me of trying to "start something". This is most peculiar since you replied to me about something I said, purely for the reason that you didn't like the way I did it. To that I will say, as the French do; le toughe shite.

Is this because I tore apart your argument previously, because you made a comment so utterly ridiculous that you retracted it, then in a huff, proclaimed you'd never debate with me again? Because if that's the case, you're breaking that.

So now that your overly emotional defense of metal has brought us here (And that is what's brought us here), let's review your "It's not quite the same to me.", comment;



That'd be reasonable if you hadn't previously said;



So as you can see, you've brought this upon yourself with yet another wave of contradiction and melodrama.

Once again; deal with it. You made this bigger than it needed to be, you replied to ME after explicitly saying you have no interest in debating with me, and then accuse me of starting something.

Get over it, boy.

-AC


Funny enough, the debate about Korn was concluded between I and another KMC poster a little while after I had enough of the sidetracking between our argument. Turns out Korn is more rock than metal as of their latest release. Funny how that took only one page, while the SAME debate between us spanded several.
Now, let me explain and kill this conversation early.

"Steal" and "Influence" in the context of music can mean the same thing in definition. The style was emulated or integrated. In regards to positive and negetive contexts, they are different. When you say something influenced another, it implies nothing sinister. However when you say style A "stole" from style B, it implies that style A was wrong and cheap, playing off of style B's popularity in an attempt to sell.

When you watch a documentary on Rock and Roll, have you ever heard "X artists stole from Blues in order to make Rock"? No. They refer to it as influence.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Funny enough, the debate about Korn was concluded between I and another KMC poster a little while after I had enough of the sidetracking between our argument. Turns out Korn is more rock than metal as of their latest release. Funny how that took only one page, while the SAME debate between us spanded several.

It took one page because you two were debating. I was making a point about your debate that you didn't grasp. You kept insisting that fans didn't consider them metal, that was nothing to do with me, that was your debate with Nellinator. My debate was that regardless of what fans think, they do not get to decide what genre a band fits in if they clearly do, technically, fit in a certain one.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Now, let me explain and kill this conversation early.

Early? Not replying to me like you swore you wouldn't by your OWN choice would have cause this to not even start, but whatever. Continue if you want, just don't whine later.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
"Steal" and "Influence" in the context of music can mean the same thing in definition. The style was emulated or integrated. In regards to positive and negetive contexts, they are different.

So what? I honestly couldn't care less if you think I was being negative, I keep trying to point this out to you, but you honestly won't let it go because you have some child-like defense of metal. Like a kid who foolishly believes his dad is the best fighter in the world.

Grow up and realise it's not the case.

Disclaimer: I know you'd be silly enough to think the kid/father part was aimed at you, it wasn't.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
When you say something influenced another, it implies nothing sinister. However when you say style A "stole" from style B, it implies that style A was wrong and cheap, playing off of style B's popularity in an attempt to sell.

Possibly the most desperate deduction I've seen recently.

As for implications; no, not really, you're honestly just retracting all this from my post because you want to reply to me.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
When you watch a documentary on Rock and Roll, have you ever heard "X artists stole from Blues in order to make Rock"? No. They refer to it as influence.

So what? How many times will I have to tell you I don't care what you think of how I said it? Do you really not get that?

That's all this is about; you don't like how I worded my post. I really couldn't care less. Just don't whine to me about starting "something" when you replied to me out of, I can only assume, sour grapes.

You didn't like how I said it, ok, be sure to cry me a river. What do you want me to do about it? You are dragging this out because you kicked something off and now you will continue it because as you've said, you feel the need to reply, always, out of pride.

It's really silly, Bardiel. Just let it go.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Possibly the most desperate deduction I've seen recently.

As for implications; no, not really, you're honestly just retracting all this from my post because you want to reply to me.

So you honestly decided, out of all the words in your vocabulary, to choose "steal" as your description? So were you ignorant of the fact that the word "steal" in that context implies somthing negetive?

Originally posted by Bardiel13
So you honestly decided, out of all the words in your vocabulary, to choose "steal" as your description? So were you ignorant of the fact that the word "steal" in that context implies somthing negetive?

I consider it negAtive that a genre, at its heart, is so dull and boring that it has to steal from others, and in many cases it is as good as stealing, because there's only so much that "metal" can be influenced by until it stops being metal, but metal fans still claim it as their own, which it isn't.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I consider it negAtive that a genre, at its heart, is so dull and boring that it has to steal from others, and in many cases it is as good as stealing, because there's only so much that "metal" can be influenced by until it stops being metal, but metal fans still claim it as their own, which it isn't.

-AC

Oh wow, was I typing it with an E? I wonder how that got ingrained into my system...

Anywho, I still fail to see how mixing genres equals stealing. Give me an example of metal "stealing."

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Anywho, I still fail to see how mixing genres equals stealing. Give me an example of metal "stealing."

I will paste the explanation to you again:

"I consider it negAtive that a genre, at its heart, is so dull and boring that it has to steal from others, and in many cases it is as good as stealing, because there's only so much that "metal" can be influenced by until it stops being metal, but metal fans still claim it as their own, which it isn't.".

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I will paste the explanation to you again:

"I consider it negAtive that a genre, at its heart, is so dull and boring that it has to steal from others, and in many cases it is as good as stealing, because there's only so much that "metal" can be influenced by until it stops being metal, but metal fans still claim it as their own, which it isn't.".

-AC

It appears second time wasn't the charm. I still don't see what metal steals and how it constitutes as stealing. Perhaps you should actually give me an example, like I had asked, instead of regurgitating the same answer that didn't work the first time.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
It appears second time wasn't the charm. I still don't see what metal steals and how it constitutes as stealing. Perhaps you should actually give me an example, like I had asked, instead of regurgitating the same answer that didn't work the first time.

The example of what I'm talking about is in the quote. If I could honestly make it any simpler, I would.

It isn't my fault you do not understand.

Claiming metal as innovative because of something it ISN'T doing, but another genre DID, that's stealing, or plagiarism, or whatever you want to call it.

-AC

It's definitely not plagiarism.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The example of what I'm talking about is in the quote. If I could honestly make it any simpler, I would.

It isn't my fault you do not understand.

Claiming metal as innovative because of something it ISN'T doing, but another genre DID, that's stealing, or plagiarism, or whatever you want to call it.

-AC

Where did I say innovative?

I wasn't saying YOU were, it was a general remark in conjunction with your point, and mine.

Do you honestly do this for post count or something?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I wasn't saying YOU were, it was a general remark in conjunction with your point, and mine.

Do you honestly do this for post count or something?

-AC

I dunno, you seem quite fond of misunderstanding posts and taking minor details of sentences literally.

Still waiting for an real-life example of metal stealing from a genre, scooter.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Still waiting for an real-life example of metal stealing from a genre, scooter.

How many times do I honestly have to tell you that it's explained in the TWO quotes I just gave you? It's not a concept that has examples, it's a much wider idea than that. It's not specific to A band.

I never said it with an example in mind because that's not how the point works. Not sure how you're having trouble understanding it, and I can't say it any simpler than I already have, twice.

"Claiming metal as innovative because of something it ISN'T doing, but another genre DID, that's stealing.".

"I consider it negAtive that a genre, at its heart, is so dull and boring that it has to steal from others, and in many cases it is as good as stealing, because there's only so much that "metal" can be influenced by until it stops being metal, but metal fans still claim it as their own, which it isn't.".

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
How many times do I honestly have to tell you that it's explained in the TWO quotes I just gave you? It's not a concept that has examples, it's a much wider idea than that. It's not specific to A band.

I never said it with an example in mind because that's not how the point works. Not sure how you're having trouble understanding it, and I can't say it any simpler than I already have, twice.

"Claiming metal as innovative because of something it ISN'T doing, but another genre DID, that's stealing.".

"I consider it negAtive that a genre, at its heart, is so dull and boring that it has to steal from others, and in many cases it is as good as stealing, because there's only so much that "metal" can be influenced by until it stops being metal, but metal fans still claim it as their own, which it isn't.".

-AC

All you're saying is "Metal steals from other genres." Alright. How do they do it?

Originally posted by Bardiel13
All you're saying is "Metal steals from other genres." Alright. How do they do it?

It's in the two quotes that I have just posted multiple times.

Are you ignoring them on purpose?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's in the two quotes that I have just posted multiple times.

Are you ignoring them on purpose?

-AC

You quotes don't say anything other than "Metal steals from other genres." What is it stealing? Why is it considered stealing? You still have not answered these questions.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
You quotes don't say anything other than "Metal steals from other genres." What is it stealing? Why is it considered stealing? You still have not answered these questions.

There's a cut-off point when it goes from misunderstanding to purposeful ignorance, but I'll indulge you one last time.

"Claiming metal as innovative because of something it ISN'T doing, but another genre DID, that's stealing.".

Metal fans being so deluded and having such a sense of entitlement, metal musicians too mostly, that they make music that can hardly be considered metal and still say "Yeah we're metal.". As a result, metal is miscredited for other genres flavours.

Eg; if you claimed Opeth were 100% metal, you would be stealing credit from other genres, as would the band, but they'd not do that. You want metal to have this appearance of being ultra diverse, but it's not. There's a point when it stops becoming "metal".

"I consider it negAtive that a genre, at its heart, is so dull and boring that it has to steal from others, and in many cases it is as good as stealing, because there's only so much that 'metal' can be influenced by until it stops being metal, but metal fans still claim it as their own, which it isn't.".

As explained there.

-AC

Metal fans being so deluded and having such a sense of entitlement, metal musicians too mostly, that they make music that can hardly be considered metal and still say "Yeah we're metal.". As a result, metal is miscredited for other genres flavours.

Eg; if you claimed Opeth were 100% metal, you would be stealing credit from other genres, as would the band, but they'd not do that. You want metal to have this appearance of being ultra diverse, but it's not. There's a point when it stops becoming "metal".

I never claimed Opeth were 100% metal. Are they a metal band? In many of their albums. Are they just "metal." Hell no. Hey, you're the one wanting every genre to be referred under one name. So, what genre would you put them under that would define their style?

"I consider it negAtive that a genre, at its heart, is so dull and boring that it has to steal from others, and in many cases it is as good as stealing, because there's only so much that 'metal' can be influenced by until it stops being metal, but metal fans still claim it as their own, which it isn't.".

Since you can't take a hint from "please elaborate", I'll be more direct. Please highlight the sentence in the above quote, describing what, exactly, metal steals from genres.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I never claimed Opeth were 100% metal. Are they a metal band? In many of their albums. Are they just "metal." Hell no. Hey, you're the one wanting every genre to be referred under one name. So, what genre would you put them under that would define their style?

A) I never said you did.

B) That isn't what I want, and evidently you only read what you want to read. I've said that some of the sub-genres have technical legitimacy. You create genre tags because "It has this, and this, so it must be this." and as I said previously, 2 + 3 is not 23 simply because both numbers appear in the written form.

Metal with folk doesn't need to be called "folk metal" because of that.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Since you can't take a hint from "please elaborate", I'll be more direct. Please highlight the sentence in the above quote, describing what, exactly, metal steals from genres.

You bolded it in your reply, how many more times? Are you honestly that simple?

"Metal fans being so deluded and having such a sense of entitlement, metal musicians too mostly, that they make music that can hardly be considered metal and still say 'Yeah we're metal.'. As a result, metal is miscredited for other genres flavours.

Eg; if you claimed Opeth were 100% metal, you would be stealing credit from other genres, as would the band, but they'd not do that. You want metal to have this appearance of being ultra diverse, but it's not. There's a point when it stops becoming 'metal'.".

There, ALL of that.

If you still do not get it, then I honestly am at a loss as to how to explain it to you, because you're being intentionally ignorant. You are after me typing it in a manner you like, not going to happen.

-AC

Metal with folk doesn't need to be called "folk metal" because of that.

But does it hurt anyon if it is? If someone says "Folk Metal." Can anyone think of anything else than "Folk with metal"? It simply gets the point across.

You bolded it in your reply, how many more times? Are you honestly that simple?

"Metal fans being so deluded and having such a sense of entitlement, metal musicians too mostly, that they make music that can hardly be considered metal and still say 'Yeah we're metal.'. As a result, metal is miscredited for other genres flavours.

Eg; if you claimed Opeth were 100% metal, you would be stealing credit from other genres, as would the band, but they'd not do that. You want metal to have this appearance of being ultra diverse, but it's not. There's a point when it stops becoming 'metal'.".

There, ALL of that.

If you still do not get it, then I honestly am at a loss as to how to explain it to you, because you're being intentionally ignorant. You are after me typing it in a manner you like, not going to happen.

What you're failing to do is explain WHAT IT IS STEALING. Is it style? Because, that would be more influence than actual stealing. All I see is you accusing metal of stealing from genres and blaming the fans for saying they're metal. So what? After all I said, do you still get the idea that I am another rabid bonehead metal elitist? Have I ever seriously held metal higher than any other genre? Have I ever insulted anyone's taste in music? What exactly are you trying to prove to me?

Originally posted by Bardiel13
But does it hurt anyon if it is? If someone says "Folk Metal." Can anyone think of anything else than "Folk with metal"? It simply gets the point across.

Replied to this already via PM.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
What you're failing to do is explain WHAT IT IS STEALING. Is it style? Because, that would be more influence than actual stealing. All I see is you accusing metal of stealing from genres and blaming the fans for saying they're metal. So what? After all I said, do you still get the idea that I am another rabid bonehead metal elitist? Have I ever seriously held metal higher than any other genre? Have I ever insulted anyone's taste in music? What exactly are you trying to prove to me?

I told you what it's stealing in the QUOTE, about four times now. Go and read every quote I have posted. I specifically tell you what metal is taking from other genres that does not belong to it.

I'm not trying to prove anything to you, you are asking me to prove why I believe something and I have done so. Whether you expected a different answer I do not know, but my reasons for saying and believing what I do have been explained to you.

If you genuinely do not understand, then as I have said, I can do no more.

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I told you what it's stealing in the QUOTE, about four times now. Go and read every quote I have posted. I specifically tell you what metal is taking from other genres that does not belong to it.

I'm not trying to prove anything to you, you are asking me to prove why I believe something and I have done so. Whether you expected a different answer I do not know, but my reasons for saying and believing what I do have been explained to you.

If you genuinely do not understand, then as I have said, I can do no more.

-AC

Alright, I've read it over several times, now. What's the key word? Credit? Are they stealing credit? Because, well... that's a stretch, to say they're 'stealing' it.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Alright, I've read it over several times, now. What's the key word? Credit? Are they stealing credit? Because, well... that's a stretch, to say they're 'stealing' it.

It's not.

steal

1. to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
2. to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.

Anything else?

-AC

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
It's not.

steal

1. to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, esp. secretly or by force: A pickpocket stole his watch.
2. to appropriate (ideas, credit, words, etc.) without right or acknowledgment.

Anything else?

-AC

So metal took concepts of other genres without permission...

I am at a loss of words on how truely retarded that sounds (and I use the term sparingly).

Originally posted by Bardiel13
So metal took concepts of other genres without permission...

I am at a loss of words on how truely retarded that sounds (and I use the term sparingly).

So you beg and whine for proof of how it's stealing, I give it, you claim it's a stretch, I prove it's a definition.

So...what? Now it's retarded? It's factually true also.

I suggest you get to grips with that.

Additionally, it was about stealing credit for concepts, ideas, methods. Not stealing the actual concepts themselves. Keep up. Either way, what's gonna happen now? You're not going to accept that I was correct, are you?

Originally posted by Bardiel13
You countered a comment everyone, including myself knew was false, because trying to back it up would be silly. You must be so proud. And I'm saying I don't have to build a fortress, because I know when a conversation calls for seriousness and when a little exaggeration for effect is alright. You don't, however.

I do, actually. I just don't buy you saying that the comment you made wasn't serious, because if it was you wouldn't have challenged someone to prove you wrong, you'd have said "I'm joking.". When he denied your claim, you challenged him. When I denied it with proof, you were "joking.".

Originally posted by Bardiel13
It wasn't a belief. Someone challenged it, thinking it was. I half-jokingly replied, curious to see their answer. What's so wrong about that?

Do you not see how bad you are weaselling?

Originally posted by Bardiel13
So you honestly think it's more practical to refer to what the majority call folk metal as "metal with some folkish flavor to it." Be reasonable. The point of these genres is to get the point across.

If someone asks me what genre a band are, or what genre an artist is, I simply say "Listen for yourself.". If you or anyone else is the kind of person that will label it upon hearing, I do not need to indulge in stupid labelling. I can do the band justice of saying "Just listen to the music.", and then my part is done. You can do them the injustice of, in many cases, pigeon-holing them.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
In my opinion, folk metal is more practical of a name than death metal or black metal. Sure, they're both defined genres, but the names are ambiguous. Unless you've heard the music before, you don't really know what to expect by name. But, if a non-metal-savvy person hears the words "folk" and "metal" to describe music, what else could they envision?

You're missing the point. I'm not denying that it may get the point across, I'm saying it's not necessarily worthy of its own genre. As I explained to you; The Dillinger Escape Plan, Candiria, these are bands that employ a lot of jazz. Primarily they are metal, and should be called such. They aren't jazz bands because they play jazzy PARTS, just like "folk metal" bands are not folk musicians because they throw parts in. Whatever the music is primarily is what it should be referred to as, that's the truer statement.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Sure, Symphonic Progressive Melodic Black Metal with Folk Influence, might be long and trivial, but that's just it's name broken down by genre influences. It's still black metal. If someone wants to call it that, then deal, man. Don't go picking fights just because you think long genre names are stupid.

I'm not picking fights, stop being a drama queen. Deal with the fact that the reasons you give for many of your tags take fewer shots than a church-attending virgin before they are toppled like the silly arguments they are. They are paper thin.

Anyone seriously using genre names like "funeral doom metal" have no longer got any sense, because they clearly miss the point on why you name a genre.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Yet, you go and try to prove to others why they're stupid. Be honest, you're not dealing. If you were, some of our debates wouldn't have existed.

No, you have intolerance to the fact that I can dismantle your genre tag arguments. You cannot do the same for mine. I reduce you to having no more reason to reply than pride.

I accept that you call music whatever you want, I accept everyone will, but I also dislike that. I dislike a lot of things I'd never try to stop, but I will still say they are silly.

YOU need to deal with THAT. If you weren't so melodramatic and childishly defensive of metal, our debates would not occur. If you hadn't made the stupid "joke" claim, we wouldn't, if you hadn't replied to me about the "stealing" claim with such teary-eyed offended nature, we wouldn't.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Guess what: That's miscommunication. You misunderstood my meaning, because my tone of voice could not be applied and my mood could not be portrayed. My context could have been taken however you wanted, regardless of my intention.

It's misrepresentation, not miscommunicaton.

-AC

Good, good.

Now try a post.

-AC

So you beg and whine for proof of how it's stealing, I give it, you claim it's a stretch, I prove it's a definition.

So...what? Now it's retarded? It's factually true also.

I suggest you get to grips with that.

Additionally, it was about stealing credit for concepts, ideas, methods. Not stealing the actual concepts themselves. Keep up. Either way, what's gonna happen now? You're not going to accept that I was correct, are you?

That's not proof. It's your word. I have never heard anything along the lines of any genre of music stealing from another EVER. And suddenly you personify sound like it's the most solid evidence of "theme theft" ever. I've never seen anything about metal stealing credit for concepts, either. Never seen anyone boast about metal being the first genre to use harsh vocals, or sing about vikings, or anything, really. Metal was unfluenced and shaped with many factors. If you're mad at the fans for bragging about these things, you're preaching to the wrong crowd. I don't that and haven't met anyone who has.

I do, actually. I just don't buy you saying that the comment you made wasn't serious, because if it was you wouldn't have challenged someone to prove you wrong, you'd have said "I'm joking.". When he denied your claim, you challenged him. When I denied it with proof, you were "joking.".

What you don't realize is that I WAS joking. I've never held metal above any other genre, before. Why on Earth would I start then? Ask yourself that. Is that in character for me? Or are you still convinced I'm still some elitist kvlt kid from Norway that only listens to metal? You're being biased and thinking only what you'd like to think.

Do you not see how bad you are weaselling?

See: above post.


If someone asks me what genre a band are, or what genre an artist is, I simply say "Listen for yourself.". If you or anyone else is the kind of person that will label it upon hearing, I do not need to indulge in stupid labelling. I can do the band justice of saying "Just listen to the music.", and then my part is done. You can do them the injustice of, in many cases, pigeon-holing them.

Yes, you could say that. And I say that, too at times. But that doesn't make it practical. For instance, if you wanted to look up a certain genre in a music database, you wouldn't get anywhere if everything was described as "listen for yourself."

You're missing the point. I'm not denying that it may get the point across, I'm saying it's not necessarily worthy of its own genre. As I explained to you; The Dillinger Escape Plan, Candiria, these are bands that employ a lot of jazz. Primarily they are metal, and should be called such. They aren't jazz bands because they play jazzy PARTS, just like "folk metal" bands are not folk musicians because they throw parts in. Whatever the music is primarily is what it should be referred to as, that's the truer statement.

So, really it's about preference. You prefer to use ambiguous umbrella terms, while I like to be a little detailed. However the majority doesn't really seem to be as passionate about it as you. Like I said, deal. I'm not going to stop using well-known terms for describing music, just because it makes you uncomfortable.

I'm not picking fights, stop being a drama queen. Deal with the fact that the reasons you give for many of your tags take fewer shots than a church-attending virgin before they are toppled like the silly arguments they are. They are paper thin.

Anyone seriously using genre names like "funeral doom metal" have no longer got any sense, because they clearly miss the point on why you name a genre.

And yet, it still manages to get the point across and no one seems to mind. I guess you'll have to put up with lunacy and anarchy ruling supereme.

No, you have intolerance to the fact that I can dismantle your genre tag arguments. You cannot do the same for mine. I reduce you to having no more reason to reply than pride.

I accept that you call music whatever you want, I accept everyone will, but I also dislike that. I dislike a lot of things I'd never try to stop, but I will still say they are silly.

YOU need to deal with THAT. If you weren't so melodramatic and childishly defensive of metal, our debates would not occur. If you hadn't made the stupid "joke" claim, we wouldn't, if you hadn't replied to me about the "stealing" claim with such teary-eyed offended nature, we wouldn't.

You dismantled by genre tag arguments? Nay, good sir, for I believe they are still going on. It appears it's simply preference. You think it's stupid, I think it's stupid, but in many cases practical. You can't really prove any of them otherwise.
And my "teary-eyed offended nature" was nothing more than curiousity regarding your choice of words. What, you want me to simply label you as a douchebag without figuring out your reasoning?
The thing is, I don't think like you. I don't try to take shit about other peoples' music. When I see people doing it, I like to try to figure out what hostility they have toward it. It's not just metal. I've done the same thing with pop punk, hip hop... This kind of conversation is nothing new to me.


It's misrepresentation, not miscommunicaton.

The miscommuncation caused a misrepresentation of what I was saying.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
That's not proof. It's your word. I have never heard anything along the lines of any genre of music stealing from another EVER. And suddenly you personify sound like it's the most solid evidence of "theme theft" ever. I've never seen anything about metal stealing credit for concepts, either. Never seen anyone boast about metal being the first genre to use harsh vocals, or sing about vikings, or anything, really. Metal was unfluenced and shaped with many factors. If you're mad at the fans for bragging about these things, you're preaching to the wrong crowd. I don't that and haven't met anyone who has.

I knew it. I actually sensed the inability to admit when you have been proven flat out wrong.

Either way, stealing credit that doesn't belong to you is stealing, and I have seen metal take credit that's not its own. As I'm sure many have. If you haven't you're either lying or you're not as into the metal scene as you claim. It happens ESPECIALLY on metal forums.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
What you don't realize is that I WAS joking. I've never held metal above any other genre, before. Why on Earth would I start then? Ask yourself that. Is that in character for me? Or are you still convinced I'm still some elitist kvlt kid from Norway that only listens to metal? You're being biased and thinking only what you'd like to think.

Ultimately I take your word for it. It stinks like a rotting fish, though.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
See: above post.

I still see you weaselling, but out of the my word vs your word debate, I have to take your word over your own word. No matter how obvious I believe the contrary is.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Yes, you could say that. And I say that, too at times. But that doesn't make it practical. For instance, if you wanted to look up a certain genre in a music database, you wouldn't get anywhere if everything was described as "listen for yourself."

Yes, and why do you think that is? Do you think that having so many genre tags is ENCOURAGING people to just listen to music for what it is? If anything it's limiting people's tastes. I suggested Opeth to a friend, they said "What are they?", I said "Metal". They said "What kind?", now if I had said anything to do with their death metal influence, he would never have listened, cos perception comes first. I just said "Listen.", he did, he loved it. He said "I'd never have tried if you'd described them as death metal.". Do you see my point?

I suppose it's like illegal downloading. I do not deny its positive sides, but I think the negative are far more overwhelming.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
So, really it's about preference. You prefer to use ambiguous umbrella terms, while I like to be a little detailed. However the majority doesn't really seem to be as passionate about it as you. Like I said, deal. I'm not going to stop using well-known terms for describing music, just because it makes you uncomfortable.

Do you like saying "deal" because I do? I say it when I suggest you to deal with something. Nothing I've said suggests I want to stop or erase what you and others do, I've explicitly said I accept its existence. So saying "deal" is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
And yet, it still manages to get the point across and no one seems to mind. I guess you'll have to put up with lunacy and anarchy ruling supereme.

What's the point of "funeral doom metal" as a tag? If you said that to your average joe, they'd have no f*cking clue what you're on about. You'd have to explain why "funeral" is there, that'd probably turn them away, then doom. As if metal doesn't have enough of a stigma as it is.

So in that case, you are doing what you claim I am. Being way too specific to people who would know these things.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
You dismantled by genre tag arguments? Nay, good sir, for I believe they are still going on.

Yeah, for the same reason Bush is still fighting in Iraq.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
It appears it's simply preference. You think it's stupid, I think it's stupid, but in many cases practical. You can't really prove any of them otherwise.

I have, many times. Here:

"What's the point of 'funeral doom metal' as a tag? If you said that to your average joe, they'd have no f*cking clue what you're on about. You'd have to explain why 'funeral' is there, that'd probably turn them away, then 'doom'. As if metal doesn't have enough of a stigma as it is.

So in that case, you are doing what you claim I am. Being way too specific to people who would know these things.".

Originally posted by Bardiel13
And my "teary-eyed offended nature" was nothing more than curiousity regarding your choice of words. What, you want me to simply label you as a douchebag without figuring out your reasoning?

Do anything besides taking it as if someone's just told you your grandmother died. It's entirely needless.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
The thing is, I don't think like you. I don't try to take shit about other peoples' music. When I see people doing it, I like to try to figure out what hostility they have toward it. It's not just metal. I've done the same thing with pop punk, hip hop... This kind of conversation is nothing new to me.

I don't have hostility toward metal. If you believe that, you've never read my posts.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
The miscommuncation caused a misrepresentation of what I was saying.

No, you misrepresented yourself, intentionally.

-AC

I knew it. I actually sensed the inability to admit when you have been proven flat out wrong.

Either way, stealing credit that doesn't belong to you is stealing, and I have seen metal take credit that's not its own. As I'm sure many have. If you haven't you're either lying or you're not as into the metal scene as you claim. It happens ESPECIALLY on metal forums.

What, just because I'm not a raging elitist, I'm not into metal or lying? No, I haven't seen any band take credit for something that was not theirs and nor have I seen any discussions about it from fans. If I had, I too would have told them that they were misinformed. It would be great to see an example, still, because if you're so sure that this is rampant in the metal community, you must have at least one example of it happening.



Ultimately I take your word for it. It stinks like a rotting fish, though.

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm being entirely honest. I think you really do enjoy debating with people for the sake of it. It boosts your ego. You don't care if I was joking or not, you just want to believe that I was hand hoped that I put up a good fight. Too bad, I had no intention on defending something I said in good spirits.

I still see you weaselling, but out of the my word vs your word debate, I have to take your word over your own word. No matter how obvious I believe the contrary is.

Yes, even though I usually put up a debate with you and discourage musical elitism, that remark was totally in character for me. Yep, just Bardiel13 blabbering on about how metal is superior, like usual. Spare me.



Yes, and why do you think that is? Do you think that having so many genre tags is ENCOURAGING people to just listen to music for what it is? If anything it's limiting people's tastes. I suggested Opeth to a friend, they said "What are they?", I said "Metal". They said "What kind?", now if I had said anything to do with their death metal influence, he would never have listened, cos perception comes first. I just said "Listen.", he did, he loved it. He said "I'd never have tried if you'd described them as death metal.". Do you see my point?

I suppose it's like illegal downloading. I do not deny its positive sides, but I think the negative are far more overwhelming.

So how would you describe it to your friend if you were both talking over the internet and he couldn't simply "just listen"?

Do you like saying "deal" because I do? I say it when I suggest you to deal with something. Nothing I've said suggests I want to stop or erase what you and others do, I've explicitly said I accept its existence. So saying "deal" is irrelevant.

Actually, you keep insisting that you're dealing with the existance of subgenres, yet that does not seem to be the case. I could say we think alike, but that would not make it true, no matter how many times I repeated it.

What's the point of "funeral doom metal" as a tag? If you said that to your average joe, they'd have no f*cking clue what you're on about. You'd have to explain why "funeral" is there, that'd probably turn them away, then doom. As if metal doesn't have enough of a stigma as it is.

So in that case, you are doing what you claim I am. Being way too specific to people who would know these things.

Actually, I've described doom metal to people many times before. Most of them are intrigued and say something like "Wow, that must be heavy." But I assure them, "Actually, the name is kind of misleading. Doom metal is actually a lot like 70's rock, but heavier. Depending on what it's mixed with, harsh vocals are actually uncommon." If someone has a closed mind and turns away from a genre of music based on name, their loss.



Yeah, for the same reason Bush is still fighting in Iraq.

I thought the war was over insurgency or oil, maybe both. I never thought Bush was having a debate about metal genres, too! Wow, you've opened my eyes to the political world.

I have, many times. Here:

"What's the point of 'funeral doom metal' as a tag? If you said that to your average joe, they'd have no f*cking clue what you're on about. You'd have to explain why 'funeral' is there, that'd probably turn them away, then 'doom'. As if metal doesn't have enough of a stigma as it is.

So in that case, you are doing what you claim I am. Being way too specific to people who would know these things.".

To be honest, I haven't much experience with funeral doom metal, so it could be frivilous and stupid like so many are. But from the one song I have heard that's been labeled funeral doom, it really sets the mood. Calling it funeral doom metal, actually sounds plausable.

Do anything besides taking it as if someone's just told you your grandmother died. It's entirely needless.

I didn't take it like that. You like to imagine me sniffling, voice cracking "Hey, man... That's mean!" When, really I'm curious, "What's your beef, pal?" Like I said, you're biased and you like to see me in whatever context makes you feel like you're winning.

I don't have hostility toward metal. If you believe that, you've never read my posts.

I didn't say you did. But many others do for other genres. I like to pick at their brains and see why they are offended so by simple sound. You accused metal of "stealing" from other genres. This concept was new to me, so naturally, I was curious.

No, you misrepresented yourself, intentionally.

And why would I do that? So I could secretly get away with sneaking in my closeted metal elitism and claim I was joking if someone caught me?

Originally posted by Bardiel13
What, just because I'm not a raging elitist, I'm not into metal or lying? No, I haven't seen any band take credit for something that was not theirs and nor have I seen any discussions about it from fans. If I had, I too would have told them that they were misinformed. It would be great to see an example, still, because if you're so sure that this is rampant in the metal community, you must have at least one example of it happening.

Wait, you actually don't believe that people believe metal to be the best genre ever, most inventive or imaginative?

Just clarify that for me, first. You do not believe, nor have you ever seen, anybody rate metal that high, or as very original? You, in none of your stints on metal forums, have seen the kind of rabid fandom that occurs?

You are aware of ICP, aware of obscure interviews they've been in...but you haven't experience metal being overrated and over-credited?

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm being entirely honest. I think you really do enjoy debating with people for the sake of it. It boosts your ego. You don't care if I was joking or not, you just want to believe that I was hand hoped that I put up a good fight. Too bad, I had no intention on defending something I said in good spirits.

If I'm taking your word for it then I'm clearly not doing all the stuff you just said. I'm not the one who admits he replies out of pride, cos that's just a stupid thing to do. I never reply for the sake of it, you do.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Yes, even though I usually put up a debate with you and discourage musical elitism, that remark was totally in character for me. Yep, just Bardiel13 blabbering on about how metal is superior, like usual. Spare me.

I'm not actually an elitist, I just don't accept certain things. If anything, I'm anti-YOUR kind of elitism. I don't accept stupidity, there's a difference.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
So how would you describe it to your friend if you were both talking over the internet and he couldn't simply "just listen"?

Metal. End of discussion.

If he asked what kind, I'd simply say they have many influences and it's hard to nail down, you're better off just listening if you can.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Actually, you keep insisting that you're dealing with the existance of subgenres, yet that does not seem to be the case. I could say we think alike, but that would not make it true, no matter how many times I repeated it.

I don't care how it seems, you're using it out of context.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Actually, I've described doom metal to people many times before. Most of them are intrigued and say something like "Wow, that must be heavy." But I assure them, "Actually, the name is kind of misleading. Doom metal is actually a lot like 70's rock, but heavier. Depending on what it's mixed with, harsh vocals are actually uncommon." If someone has a closed mind and turns away from a genre of music based on name, their loss.

I'm not talking about recommending it to people already into music, they tend to be more open minded than random folks LOOKING to get new music.

Exactly, their loss, when just recommending the music has more chance of them just liking it, if you are into spoodfeeding people that is.

Also, that doesn't negate my point. You said "funeral doom metal" was a practical label. It's not is it? If it takes more effort to describe and would most likely result in someone not even trying, then what you are suggesting is precisely what you claim I'm doing.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I thought the war was over insurgency or oil, maybe both. I never thought Bush was having a debate about metal genres, too! Wow, you've opened my eyes to the political world.

I should have known you'd not get it.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
To be honest, I haven't much experience with funeral doom metal, so it could be frivilous and stupid like so many are. But from the one song I have heard that's been labeled funeral doom, it really sets the mood. Calling it funeral doom metal, actually sounds plausable.

What mood? "I feel like I'm at a funeral, listening to doom metal."? Do you realise how utterly dumb that is? That is the worst pigeonholing ever. "This band make music that sounds like doom metal, but for funerals.". Half the bands kids label don't even consider themselves what they are being labelled, that's the funny thing.

My point is, when you go too far, it stops working in the favour of your argument.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I didn't take it like that. You like to imagine me sniffling, voice cracking "Hey, man... That's mean!" When, really I'm curious, "What's your beef, pal?" Like I said, you're biased and you like to see me in whatever context makes you feel like you're winning.

Which would be precisely why I accept your word on what you meant. I often don't need to see myself winning against you, it happens anyway because you have such poor arguments, don't flatter yourself.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I didn't say you did. But many others do for other genres. I like to pick at their brains and see why they are offended so by simple sound. You accused metal of "stealing" from other genres. This concept was new to me, so naturally, I was curious.

You have an innate defense of metal, proven by the continual nonsense of: "I was being enthusiastic by saying metal was the most creative and imaginative, I didn't mean it.". Followed by "Simply saying 'I love metal!' wouldn't say why.", but neither did your "jokey" over-enthusiasm.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
And why would I do that? So I could secretly get away with sneaking in my closeted metal elitism and claim I was joking if someone caught me?

Saying something the complete opposite of what you mean in a public forum, the challenging someone to prove you wrong for whatever reason, is not misrepresentation first and foremost?

Funny.

-AC

Wait, you actually don't believe that people believe metal to be the best genre ever, most inventive or imaginative?

Just clarify that for me, first. You do not believe, nor have you ever seen, anybody rate metal that high, or as very original? You, in none of your stints on metal forums, have seen the kind of rabid fandom that occurs?

You are aware of ICP, aware of obscure interviews they've been in...but you haven't experience metal being overrated and over-credited?

Oh, I'm aware. I just think you're exaggerating. Something which you like to knock me for. Appearantly, it's rampant enough that you have to ***** about it. In full honesty, I am yet to meet a person who overcredits metal and truely believes it. I've never seen a man on fire, but I am aware people can be immolated.

If I'm taking your word for it then I'm clearly not doing all the stuff you just said. I'm not the one who admits he replies out of pride, cos that's just a stupid thing to do. I never reply for the sake of it, you do.

So, there we have it. I have pride. Oh no, that means everything I've said means nothing! It really is a deadly sin!! What's your point, bub?

I'm not actually an elitist, I just don't accept certain things. If anything, I'm anti-YOUR kind of elitism. I don't accept stupidity, there's a difference.

So, tell me. What's my kind of elitism?

Metal. End of discussion.

If he asked what kind, I'd simply say they have many influences and it's hard to nail down, you're better off just listening if you can.

So you like to be vague. More power to you. Some people do not. What's to argue?

I don't care how it seems, you're using it out of context.

Am I? Because I am yet to see someone mention a less-than-basic genre without you stepping in.

I'm not talking about recommending it to people already into music, they tend to be more open minded than random folks LOOKING to get new music.

Exactly, their loss, when just recommending the music has more chance of them just liking it, if you are into spoodfeeding people that is.

Also, that doesn't negate my point. You said "funeral doom metal" was a practical label. It's not is it? If it takes more effort to describe and would most likely result in someone not even trying, then what you are suggesting is precisely what you claim I'm doing.

And yet no one else seems to care as much as you. Why is that?

I should have known you'd not get it.

Yeah, aren't I a peach?

What mood? "I feel like I'm at a funeral, listening to doom metal."? Do you realise how utterly dumb that is? That is the worst pigeonholing ever. "This band make music that sounds like doom metal, but for funerals.". Half the bands kids label don't even consider themselves what they are being labelled, that's the funny thing.

My point is, when you go too far, it stops working in the favour of your argument.

Hey, it's not like I'm gonna fight tooth and nail for Funeral Doom Metal to stll be considered a genre. I just think it's stupid for you to get so worked up about it. No, funeral doom metal has nothing to do with funerals, unless the band writes songs about it. But, it reminded me of the mood of funerals. You can call it doom metal and I'll still call it doom metal, but it somone refers to it as funeral doom metal, I'm not going to jump all over them for it.

Which would be precisely why I accept your word on what you meant. I often don't need to see myself winning against you, it happens anyway because you have such poor arguments, don't flatter yourself.

Best take your own advice, pal. I'm not trying to flatter myself. It's you who's holding your opinion above others. You say "Ha! Fool! I'm totally winning this! Your kung fu is weeeaaakkk!*" When in reality, it's just two morons arguing over a musical genre.

*Not a direct quote from Alpha Centauri.

You have an innate defense of metal, proven by the continual nonsense of: "I was being enthusiastic by saying metal was the most creative and imaginative, I didn't mean it.". Followed by "Simply saying 'I love metal!' wouldn't say why.", but neither did your "jokey" over-enthusiasm.

I didn't say it was the most creative and imaginative. I said I liked the varying ascpect of it. Now, let me ask you this: Was it in character for me to really mean metal was the most anything? You like me to show proof and back up, right? Show me proof that it's more plausible that I would be spouting elitist psychobabel than simply being enthausiastic, based on my recent posts. Have I ever done anything of the sort? Have I ever said "Metal is superior! Prove to me it's not!" and really meant it? You simply wish you could shoot down elitists, because they're easy prey for beating people in debates. You like to look for them and you thought you found one, when I made that post. And even though I told you over and over that I wasn't being serious when I said it, you having YOUR pride couldn't back down and say "Sorry, dude, I thought you were serious." You convinced yourself that I was trying to weasel out of my claim, since someone caught on to my elitism.

Saying something the complete opposite of what you mean in a public forum, the challenging someone to prove you wrong for whatever reason, is not misrepresentation first and foremost?

Funny.

I didn't say it wasn't misrepresentation. It was both, because you took what I said in a way that I didn't intend. My point was miscommunicated. And I didn't man the opposite. I wasn't saying it wasn't diverse at all, by being sarcastic. I was simply saying "I like how the different genres vary."

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Oh, I'm aware. I just think you're exaggerating. Something which you like to knock me for. Appearantly, it's rampant enough that you have to ***** about it. In full honesty, I am yet to meet a person who overcredits metal and truely believes it. I've never seen a man on fire, but I am aware people can be immolated.

Then if you're aware why are you denying it? If you aren't yet to meet the people doing it, doesn't actually mean they don't exist, they do. If you know it's possible and that it happens, then what was the point of your previous claim? You've never seen it happen, ok, great, so? I've never seen a wild boar kill a man, I know it can/does happen.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
So, there we have it. I have pride. Oh no, that means everything I've said means nothing! It really is a deadly sin!! What's your point, bub?

My point is, as I've said many times (You aren't very quick, are you?), replying purely out of pride them blaming me for you "having" to reply, despite having nothing to say, is stupid. You HAVE said that regardless, you feel obligated to reply when I do.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
So, tell me. What's my kind of elitism?

Metal elitism.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
So you like to be vague. More power to you. Some people do not. What's to argue?

You're calling it vague, that's not what it is. It's just a general, yet honest suggestion. You wish to step over the line and go toward "Yes, this is exactly what it means and sounds like.", I prefer to let the listener decide what they think it is. Genre taggers will tag regardless, I never have and never will.

YOU are over-specific.

What's to argue? Exactly, what problem do you have? All I'm doing is pointing out why I believe what you do is stupid, not saying "STOP IT!".

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Am I? Because I am yet to see someone mention a less-than-basic genre without you stepping in.

Discussion forum, it suggests nothing more than I have views I like to express and there are views I like to hear. Many use genre tags for a different reason, it's curiousity. I had the same discussion with Deathblow before.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
And yet no one else seems to care as much as you. Why is that?

You are interpreting it as care. I don't walk around the street debating with people, this is a music discussion forum and this is a thread where we are debating genres and genre tags. What's the problem?

The extreme hypocricy is that it's people like you who really do care too much. I don't care enough to call something "funeral doom metal", that plus it being stupid.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Yeah, aren't I a peach?

A lemon. Sour, bitter etc.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Hey, it's not like I'm gonna fight tooth and nail for Funeral Doom Metal to stll be considered a genre. I just think it's stupid for you to get so worked up about it.

And I think it's stupid for you to assume I'm getting worked up about it, also hypocritical considering you're a major advocate of "It's not easy to communicate through text!".

It's a discussion here, in this thread. Nothing personal to ME.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
No, funeral doom metal has nothing to do with funerals, unless the band writes songs about it. But, it reminded me of the mood of funerals.

Which is what I said...

Originally posted by Bardiel13
You can call it doom metal and I'll still call it doom metal, but it somone refers to it as funeral doom metal, I'm not going to jump all over them for it.

I'm not trying to stop people doing so, but it's called freedom of speech.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Best take your own advice, pal. I'm not trying to flatter myself. It's you who's holding your opinion above others. You say "Ha! Fool! I'm totally winning this! Your kung fu is weeeaaakkk!*" When in reality, it's just two morons arguing over a musical genre.

If you feel you're a moron, go for it. I'm not, but thanks.

I didn't spend my time, money and love on music, learning and researching so I can say "Hey, we're all equal.". That's not the point of having a brain. There are many who know more, but there are many who know less, it's the way of the world.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I didn't say it was the most creative and imaginative. I said I liked the varying ascpect of it.

I'll go grab the quote afte I post this.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Now, let me ask you this: Was it in character for me to really mean metal was the most anything? You like me to show proof and back up, right? Show me proof that it's more plausible that I would be spouting elitist psychobabel than simply being enthausiastic, based on my recent posts.

Based on your recent posts? So, we're supposed to take your word for it that you were joking...and therefore assume it's obvious you were? That's rather silly. Your initial quote and reply to whoever it was did not suggest jocular conversation, especially given your attitude toward metal on this forum.

You are viewed as a silly metal elitist, I believe Nellinator even said so. So yes, I'd say it would be in character. That said, I have to take your word you were joking.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Have I ever done anything of the sort? Have I ever said "Metal is superior! Prove to me it's not!" and really meant it? You simply wish you could shoot down elitists, because they're easy prey for beating people in debates. You like to look for them and you thought you found one, when I made that post. And even though I told you over and over that I wasn't being serious when I said it, you having YOUR pride couldn't back down and say "Sorry, dude, I thought you were serious." You convinced yourself that I was trying to weasel out of my claim, since someone caught on to my elitism.

How many times have I said I have taken your word for it? If you wish me to say "I don't find ANYTHING fishy about it.", I won't cos that's not what I believe. If you were joking, you were joking. I accept your word over your post, I just find it dodgy. It's not "pride", it's overwhelming context. Though my point is proven here as you simply cannot resist finding ANY reason to reply to me.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
I didn't say it wasn't misrepresentation. It was both, because you took what I said in a way that I didn't intend.

That doesn't qualify as miscommunication.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
My point was miscommunicated. And I didn't man the opposite. I wasn't saying it wasn't diverse at all, by being sarcastic. I was simply saying "I like how the different genres vary."

I'll grab the quotes.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
Possibly, the greatest, most diverse form of music I can think of.

Followed by someone saying they disagree and you challenging them to prove it.

Not until I said something did you come out and say it was over-enthusiasm, THEN humour.

Like I said, I'm taking your word for it, but to say "LOOK! THAT'S CLEARLY A JOKE!" is silly.

-AC

Screw it, these posts are getting so long and split-up it's stupid. Let's stick with the main topic, shall we?
Wait... what was it, again?

For future reference, you know my stance on genres, I know yours. If I say something to you, try not to take it so personally and we'll probably have less of these.

Topic was "Do you like metal?", if yes; what and why.

-AC

I do like Metal.

I like old Slipknot when it comes to nu metal.

Black metal and death metal? I'll listen to any band, and probably like it.

I liked grind and thrash metal.......

And I want to get into viking metal.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
For future reference, you know my stance on genres, I know yours. If I say something to you, try not to take it so personally and we'll probably have less of these.

Topic was "Do you like metal?", if yes; what and why.

-AC

As long as you don't get your panties in a bunch, whenever I go beyond "Metal", we should be fine.

Originally posted by Bardiel13
As long as you don't get your panties in a bunch, whenever I go beyond "Metal", we should be fine.

As long as you don't take my replies as me doing that, then we will be.

-AC

im not a metal fan but i dont mind some metallica when im in the mood.

Originally posted by pcp
I used to like metal when I was about 13. It's no coincidence that the kid I know who can't do the alphabet listens to metal, the kid I know who dropped out of college twice in 2 years listens to metal and the 18 year old I know who hangs out with 14 year olds and who pissed himself in school lessons listened to metal.

I gave up on metal long ago in favour of proper music.

You're an idiot.

Originally posted by Lord Shaper
You're an idiot.

We've already explained that to him. If you want to contribute your own opinion on the genre, feel free.

Anyone listen to Job For A Cowboy?

Yah. I don't like them.

Originally posted by zjtrivium
Anyone listen to Job For A Cowboy?

Heard they are cool, but then again, never heard them.

I like most metal. A lot of this newer Anerican stuff though, it's just lacking, in my opinion.

Viking metal kicks ass, as a side note. I was lucky enough to see Finntroll live.

Originally posted by eggmayo
I like most metal. A lot of this newer Anerican stuff though, it's just lacking, in my opinion.

Viking metal kicks ass, as a side note. I was lucky enough to see Finntroll live.

Oh, I know exactly what you mean. This whole Nu-Metal... just not my thing. It's terrible here in the states.

Nu-metal is not a legitimate genre. If it were you could define it. You can't, therefore it's blanket term for stuff people can't define and thus lump many bands in it that are nothing alike.

I'm currently in a black/viking metal band, if anyone wants to check us out.

www.myspace.com/kcstonehaven



I'm not really expecting a warm response, however, but it's always nice for us to throw our name out.

The guitar work doesn't seem very black metal like. Black metal musically has it's roots in hardcore punk. You almost seem like a doom band to be honest. It sounds heavily influenced by Black Sabbath and your vocalist follows the instrumental melody a little to closely for black metal.

Originally posted by SelphieT
Oh, I know exactly what you mean. This whole Nu-Metal... just not my thing. It's terrible here in the states.

There are a few good bands that are lumped in this category, though IMO. Such as the Deftones, Tool, and some SOAD. I do in fact dislike the majority of it and think it is devoid of skill and talent.

My favorite metal band is Opeth, and Ulver. Ulver is not metal anymore, however, and is now experimental. Still good.

Ulver is neat.

Originally posted by Lord Shaper
There are a few good bands that are lumped in this category, though IMO. Such as the Deftones, Tool, and some SOAD. I do in fact dislike the majority of it and think it is devoid of skill and talent.

My favorite metal band is Opeth, and Ulver. Ulver is not metal anymore, however, and is now experimental. Still good.

When have Tool ever been considered nu-metal?

-AC

Originally posted by Nellinator
Nu-metal is not a legitimate genre. If it were you could define it. You can't, therefore it's blanket term for stuff people can't define and thus lump many bands in it that are nothing alike. Not that different to most genres really. People just like to categorise.

Originally posted by Victor Von Doom
Not that different to most genres really. People just like to categorise. True, though some aren't that bad. Nu-metal is absolutely devoid of meaning compared to a lot of them.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
When have Tool ever been considered nu-metal?

-AC When they are mis-categorized

Originally posted by Reverend Axel
When they are mis-categorized

Exactly the answer to the question I was posed with. Whenever idiots categorize something that it's not.

I'm personally not the biggest fan of Tool, but aren't they more industrial?

Hahaha, no. Nothing like.

They're a hard rock/metal band. Either/or, in my opinion.

-AC

Originally posted by SelphieT
I'm personally not the biggest fan of Tool, but aren't they more industrial?

The song "Die Eier Von Satan" was industrial. But I wouldn't consider that an actual song of theirs.

I agree with AC on his categorizations of Tool. I personally like to classify them a progresseive rock band.

I see. I've only heard a couple songs, t'was a guess, myah. hmm

Originally posted by SelphieT
I'm personally not the biggest fan of Tool, but aren't they more industrial? They are quite ambient at times, but definitely not industrial.

Originally posted by Nellinator
True, though some aren't that bad. Nu-metal is absolutely devoid of meaning compared to a lot of them.

Yeah, but better than others. Originally posted by SelphieT
I'm personally not the biggest fan of Tool, but aren't they more industrial?

No, rock with progressive elements.