Christianity, hypocrisy in its attacks on others

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Regret
I chose to present these two due to the same attacks made on my Mormon faith by mainstream Christians. I have posted these to have the mainstream Christians respond to the attack. If the attacks on my beliefs are valid, then these too should be valid.

If someone has additional attacks used by mainstream Christians against another religion, and the same attack can be used against Christianity, this thread is for that, as well as mainstream Christianity's response to the various attacks.

*I believe in the Bible and the claims of Christianity, but my purpose with this thread is to show the hypocritical nature of Christianity when attacking the validity of beliefs they disagree with. As such, I will not respond to the attacks with my rebuttal due to the fact that I want the mainstream Christian response, not my own.

Regret
oops, could a mod move this to the religion forum, thought I was there when creating it.

lil bitchiness
Well, you're all as bad as each other really, aren't you?

''Im gonna bash them cos they bashed me''

Mmmm, super!

Regret
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Well, you're all as bad as each other really, aren't you?

''Im gonna bash them cos they bashed me''

Mmmm, super! I am not meaning to "bash", if that is what I am doing, I apologize. My intent is to reduce hypocritical attacks being used by mainstream Christianity.

Shakyamunison
The term "True Christian" always cracks me up. I find that the person, who uses this term to beet other Christians, assumes they are one of the True Christians. I thank it more likely, if there is such a thing as a True Christian, it would be one of the people who never say anything harmful to anyone.

Regret
I agree.

Another purpose for the thread is for me to be able to assess the arguments used to rebut. Are the mainstream Christian responses similar or even the same as the responses I use? I believe such is probable, if this is the case, my arguments are valid from a mainstream Christian stance.

Quiero Mota
Originally posted by Regret
I chose to present these two due to the same attacks made on my Mormon faith by mainstream Christians. I have posted these to have the mainstream Christians respond to the attack. If the attacks on my beliefs are valid, then these too should be valid.

If someone has additional attacks used by mainstream Christians against another religion, and the same attack can be used against Christianity, this thread is for that, as well as mainstream Christianity's response to the various attacks.

*I believe in the Bible and the claims of Christianity, but my purpose with this thread is to show the hypocritical nature of Christianity when attacking the validity of beliefs they disagree with. As such, I will not respond to the attacks with my rebuttal due to the fact that I want the mainstream Christian response, not my own.

So then what does that make the Koran?

Muslims consider it to be the final word of God and correction of the Bible.

debbiejo
Interesting verses. But did Jesus go against the OT law. I don't think so.

Regret
Originally posted by debbiejo
Interesting verses. But did Jesus go against the OT law. I don't think so. I'd assume a Rabbi would know the Jewish view of it.

lil bitchiness
Everyone likes to claim their Prophet is the best, but really now, can all God's wisdome be REALLY preached in one man's lifetime?

Capt_Fantastic
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
but really now, can all God's wisdome be REALLY preached in one man's lifetime?

Or by one man?

Maybe I'm dim, but I'm not really following the point of the thread.

debbiejo
Wisdom is given to everyone......Not one man. It may be that some stand out amongst others, then distorted.

FeceMan
Deuteronomy 4:1-2

It's talking about the Law, not the teachings of God.

Deuteronomy 18:18-22

Taken out of context--and creatively spun--one could argue that Christ violates this. However...

1. He's the Son of God. Not a prophet.
2. How do we know that Christ wasn't commanded by God to speak what he did?

(Answer: We don't, and, since we believe he's the Son of God, it kinda follows that it was commanded by God.)

Capt_Fantastic
Cool. So I'm not all that dim after all.

Regret
Originally posted by FeceMan
Deuteronomy 4:1-2

It's talking about the Law, not the teachings of God.

I agree, but isn't this adding to the Law?



Originally posted by FeceMan
Deuteronomy 18:18-22

Taken out of context--and creatively spun--one could argue that Christ violates this. However...

1. He's the Son of God. Not a prophet.
2. How do we know that Christ wasn't commanded by God to speak what he did?

(Answer: We don't, and, since we believe he's the Son of God, it kinda follows that it was commanded by God.) The Jews do not believe the Messiah will be the Son of God. The believe that God becoming mortal and physical is sacrilege. Remember, for this one, you have to convince the Jew.

siriuswriter
I would like to put in, here, that not all Christians feel the need to convert the world, and/or attack others' beliefs and ways of thinking.

*points to self*

Dreampanther
What is it with Christians and their religious intolerance? Are all Christians like this or have I been merely unfortunate (for more tha 30 years) in dealing with them?

I was raised to be a Christian, but found the dogma to be too restricting, too narrow, and too prejudiced. (I was raised in South Africa, where the Dutch Reformed church basically gave their blessing to the persecution of blacks.)

I ventured into philosophy, read up about New Age, and consider myself to be both spiritual and religious, just not in any conventional, conservative way. In the main, I don't have any problems with Christianity itself - it's the CHRISTIANS I have a problem with.

Self-righteous, intolerant, holier-than-thou, with a superiority complex second to none. I know that is is dangerous to generalise, and I have some great friends who are Christians.

But let me illustrate my point, and explain why I need to blow off some steam. Last week I received an email on on of those mailing lists from somebody I didn't know. Some of my friends were on the list, so I assume that is how my name got on.

Anyway, it was one of those annoying religious mails, telling you how much God should mean to you and why you are going to burn in Hell if you do not forward it to at least the entire known universe.

In return, I sent a mail to all, asking to be taken off the mailing list please, or at least to stop sending me mails like that, as I am not Christian and have no intention of converting.

Today, I checked my mail, and it was like I was back in the flippen Dark Ages, with various hysterical missives, ranging from I am going to burn in the Hell to how much they despise me.

Hallo?

What happened to religious freedom, one of the basic constitutional rights of the new South Africa? sad

So - is it just me, or have other people experienced similar intolerance of their religious beliefs, specifically from Christians?

Ironic, and sad, that Christianity, which is advertised as Love and Fogiveness, has now in my mind become the most intolerant of all the religions...

lil bitchiness
Come live in Iran - then we'll talk about religious tolerance. happy

Dreampanther
Just saw this thread now, after I started my own embarrasment

I also found myself being attacked by Christians, for daring to express a different opinion of theirs - and it seriously annoyed me. I am glad to see some reasonable responses here...

Storm
No, not all Christians are like this just because some may have acted improperly.

Dreampanther
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Come live in Iran - then we'll talk about religious tolerance. happy

He he - no thanks! Good luck, though... I am sure that in comparison I don't have much to complain about.

I just wish everybody would grok the meanings of peace, love, happiness and tolerance - and stop reading the words in a book and then go out and attack and kill everybody until they believe the same as you do because your beliefs are so obviously superior to everybody else's...

But I might as well wish to win the Lotto, I guess!

Dreampanther
Originally posted by Storm
No, not all Christians are like this just because some may have acted improperly.

I agree that not all Christians are like that - as I stated, I have some Christian friends and we discuss this all the time. And perhaps it is more prevalent in my society, because a lot of people (the older, Afrikaans, white generation that lived under Apartheid for so long) are very conservative, and cling to their religion in these times of rapid change in my country.

I was just so dismayed, to be attacked today, when all I did was ask to be taken off a mailing list because my beliefs do not agree with theirs.

Thundar
Originally posted by Regret
I chose to present these two due to the same attacks made on my Mormon faith by mainstream Christians. I have posted these to have the mainstream Christians respond to the attack. If the attacks on my beliefs are valid, then these too should be valid.

If someone has additional attacks used by mainstream Christians against another religion, and the same attack can be used against Christianity, this thread is for that, as well as mainstream Christianity's response to the various attacks.

*I believe in the Bible and the claims of Christianity, but my purpose with this thread is to show the hypocritical nature of Christianity when attacking the validity of beliefs they disagree with. As such, I will not respond to the attacks with my rebuttal due to the fact that I want the mainstream Christian response, not my own.


To be quite honest I believe that you are like myself and many other mainstream Christians quite a bit Regret. You're very dedicated to your God, very versed in your scriptures, as well as you do seem to have a loving intention in what it you state(although I can't really discern the intentions of your heart..so I'm just going by what I've seen you post).

I think the biggest problem I have with Mormon doctrine, and those who carry similar views(i.e. Jesus was a man, people will become Gods, etc) Is that all are extremely contradictory to the scriptures, and one can lead so many people astray with these doctrines, particulary those not familiar with them.

Even in mainstream Christianity I often find myself having to pull away from the herd, particularly nowadays, as I do feel as if the church has become rather hypocritical and not as interested in helping others as it used to be.

I think the biggest problem as to why the church(and many Christians..including myself) have become somewhat apathetic and desensitized to the problems of others is due to this materialistic society we live in.

So what to do about the growing problem of hypocrisy? I think go out and help people. Jesus put it best when he stated "they'll know us by our love."

FeceMan
Originally posted by Regret
I agree, but isn't this adding to the Law?
I think it's more clarifying than adding.

Yeah...I'm not going to put my energy into that one. There's heathens to burn, after all.
Originally posted by Dreampanther
Words.
First of all, we live in a retarded culture that states that "tolerance" means "cherishing and accepting others" instead of "putting up with them." Things that mainstream culture classifies as intolerance are often ridiculously blown out of proportion and, quite frankly, anti-Christian. (Did you see all the bullshit about the Left Behind game? Yeah.)

Second of all, if you live in a crappy country, be prepared to deal with crappy people.

Ahem. I mean...

The charismatic movement is big in Africa, and I'm guessing you ran into those people rather than other Christians.

debbiejo
Originally posted by Regret
I'd assume a Rabbi would know the Jewish view of it. Well actually Jesus didn't go against the OT laws, it's the church that stated he did by playing with his words and listening/inserting Paul which the RCC based their Constantine doctrine on. Jesus kept all the laws. This is why the Jews today revere him as a teacher but despise Paul...Paul went against the laws.

Dreampanther
Originally posted by FeceMan
First of all, we live in a retarded culture that states that "tolerance" means "cherishing and accepting others" instead of "putting up with them." Things that mainstream culture classifies as intolerance are often ridiculously blown out of proportion and, quite frankly, anti-Christian. (Did you see all the bullshit about the Left Behind game? Yeah.)

Second of all, if you live in a crappy country, be prepared to deal with crappy people.

Ahem. I mean...

The charismatic movement is big in Africa, and I'm guessing you ran into those people rather than other Christians.

OKay, let's start from the bottom...

Nah, the chick that attacked me is from the Dutch Reformed church, which is the very conservative mainstream Christian church we have here (you know, still think being gay means you go straight to Hell, doesn't allow you to have sex in a standing-up position because they are afraid it might lead to dancing stick out tongue that kinda thing). The reason I know this is I was raised in that church, and left when I was eighteen and old enough to start thinking for myself.

My country is not crappy. In fact, I love my country. (And FIFA seems to agree with me). We do have a lot of problems, but - name me one, just ONE other country where the dominant, ruling, elitist party gave up power to the oppressed without a full-scale war...

And here I can go scuba-diving in the middle of winter without a wetsuit, I have gone walking with elephants, I have played with lion cubs - so really I can't complain about my country (although, I will admit, crime is a b!tch).

But personally, I would rank Nelson Mandela in the same league as Ghandi, though of course you are entitled to your own opinion.

As for tolerance: In the new constitution, SA recognised freedom of religion as a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT. It goes about respect.

By illustration, let me use a debate as an example. When you have a debate with respect, it means you listen to other people's opinions, and they listen to yours. The idea is not to convince your fellow debater - that would be impossible, because for this example both people are equally convincd of their standpoint. The objective is to put your points across as clearly as possible, so that anybody who is still undecided will lean more towards your standpoint - but that is all it is - A STANDPOINT. A perspective, if you will.

In religion, philosophy and sociology there is really no right or wrong. You pick a perspective that suits your worldview, and it is a dynamic perspective, not a static one. In other words, there is nothing to prevent you from changing your mind, if you wish to do so.

This, of course, is the main difference netween the social sciences and the natural sciences, as 2 + 2 = 4 ALWAYS, not sometimes when you feel like it.

A debate without respect is an argument that soon turns into a nasty, ugly, mean little war, where the main objective is to hurt your opponent as much as possible. There is nothing respectful. dynamic or fluid about this relationship - there is no give and take - the argument turns into name-calling eventually, and neither will back away from their stance as they fear losing face. Which they did, long ago.

What bothered me was that I received an unsolicited mail full of Christian propaganda from complete strangers, and when I politely asked to be removed from the list, I was verbally assaulted and abused. By these same Christians that preach love and forgiveness.

And this has never happened to me with Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Rastafarians... or any other religion!

So, I am wondering: Have I just been extremely fortunate in my dealings with other religions, or is there someting about Christianity that turns people into these conceited, intolerant and abusive propagandanists?

Or have I just been unfortunate in my dealings with Christians? And in fact, spouting this kind of behaviour - should these individuals still be considered Christians?

FeceMan
If they're saying that one isn't allowed to have sex standing up--a hyperbole, I realize--the they're being stupid and making my head hurt. That is to say, they're making up rules--we all know the Bible's against dancing and drinking--for whatever reason and ought to be hit with the Good Book a few times.

Black Dalek
Christianity is indeed a hypocrisy. I shall quote.

Leviticus 20:9 ("For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death"wink and Psalm 137:9 ("Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"wink.

-Used by Marilyn Manson to show that his lyrics are just as violent as the bible.

Christianity wants peace my ass.

debbiejo
The weird thing is that people think they need an institution to find god.

Nellinator
Originally posted by Black Dalek
Christianity is indeed a hypocrisy. I shall quote.

Leviticus 20:9 ("For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall surely be put to death"wink and Psalm 137:9 ("Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones"wink.

-Used by Marilyn Manson to show that his lyrics are just as violent as the bible.

Christianity wants peace my ass. One of those "I don't know what context, or curseth mean" people huh?

Black Dalek
Originally posted by Nellinator
One of those "I don't know what context, or curseth mean" people huh?

No, I do not. But still, from reading the bible, what God done, is just as violent as Marilyn Manson's lyrics. This is my opinion.

Nellinator
Exactly. You don't understand the context or the reasons.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Exactly. You don't understand the context or the reasons.



You will argue that senseless violence is somehow reasonable ? erm

Nellinator
No I will argue that is not senseless.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
No I will argue that is not senseless.


How is violence not senseless ? How is violence ever justifiable ?

Nellinator
When it solves the problem without creating another one. Please don't take this as a my condoning much violence, but God knows what is best, His decisions are ultimately always going to be the right ones.

Black Dalek
God says he loves us all. But he says 'BELIEVE IN ME OR GO TO HELL!!'

Nellinator
Depends on what you know of hell, it's not as bad as you've probably been told.

Marxman
Originally posted by Nellinator
Depends on what you know of hell, it's not as bad as you've probably been told. Well then fcuk following the rules. If hell isn't all that bad I'll take a lifetime of enjoyment and an eternity of an uncomfortable temperature over a lifetime of worrying if I'm pleasing a god then an eternity of constantly worshiping this god.

debbiejo
Originally posted by Nellinator
One of those "I don't know what context, or curseth mean" people huh? Curses as in Leviticus only means a cause and effect. If you don't follow the laws then you will be cursed. Not really a curse but as the effect of lets say being around the dead..If so, then one can get diseases, or not to eat pork at that time, because there are parasites in pork. Yet some laws were pretty silly as not wearing garments of two different fabrics together....It's not a curse that would send you to hell because first they didn't believe in such a place and two, god never said that.

Nellinator
Yes they did believe in Sheol as a place of mourning and punishment.Originally posted by Marxman
Well then fcuk following the rules. If hell isn't all that bad I'll take a lifetime of enjoyment and an eternity of an uncomfortable temperature over a lifetime of worrying if I'm pleasing a god then an eternity of constantly worshiping this god.
No it still sucks, you just don't get eternity in a Paradise, instead you are utterly destroyed.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Yes they did believe in Sheol as a place of mourning and punishment.
No it still sucks, you just don't get eternity in a Paradise, instead you are utterly destroyed.


ALL PRAISE THE LORD !

Nellinator
Destruction ain't even bad when you think about. I hold that it is far better than letting people like Hitler into Heaven.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Destruction ain't even bad when you think about. I hold that it is far better than letting people like Hitler into Heaven.

I agree...for people like Hitler, death is a merciful punishment...


But since according to modern Evangelism, all who do not beleive will go to Hell, you can't say that we are all equal to Hitler and deserve the same punishment as he....

Nellinator
Have you ever thought that punishment is proportional? Sheol precedes the lake of fire (ie. destruction) and seems to be a place of personal reflection that makes one realize their sins. Since I assume you have done less than Hitler (I know I'm taking a pretty big leap of faith saying that) your time in Sheol shouldn't be nearly as bad.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Have you ever thought that punishment is proportional? Sheol precedes the lake of fire (ie. destruction) and seems to be a place of personal reflection that makes one realize their sins. Since I assume you have done less than Hitler (I know I'm taking a pretty big leap of faith saying that) your time in Sheol shouldn't be nearly as bad.

OH..so you mean I would only get one pineapple shoved up my ass, while he gets 20 pineapples shoved up his ass ?


laughing laughing laughing out loud laughing laughing out loud


Then we both get destroyed..... erm


Besides, ur assertion is not Biblically supported...according to the Bible, all in Hell shall gnash thier teeth, curse the lord, suffer unbearable torment, then be obliterated in the Second Death in the Lake of Gaheena...


What a merciful God we have ! roll eyes (sarcastic)



Your God will burn and destroy me because I am Gay and Atheist....

Nellinator
No, it is Biblically supported. I thought we went over it with a bunch of verses and whatnot. Anyways, gnashing of teeth has various meanings not the least of which is the expression of pain and sorrow.

Oh and I no longer use the word 'hell' because it is misleading and confuses people. Sheol/Hades and the Lake of Fire are the terms we should use when discussing 'hell'.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
No, it is Biblically supported. I thought we went over it with a bunch of verses and whatnot. Anyways, gnashing of teeth has various meanings not the least of which is the expression of pain and sorrow.

Oh and I no longer use the word 'hell' because it is misleading and confuses people. Sheol/Hades and the Lake of Fire are the terms we should use when discussing 'hell'.


Why did you ignore my last statement ?

Nellinator
Why did you not address my response?
But so as not to dodge you: the homosexual factor is not definite in salvation although it is a sin, the atheism is the determining aspect. By denying God you are indirectly stating that you don't want the salvation that's reward is heaven.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Why did you not address my response?
But so as not to dodge you: the homosexual factor is not definite in salvation although it is a sin, the atheism is the determining aspect. By denying God you are indirectly stating that you don't want the salvation that's reward is heaven.


Whether I am a believer or not is entirely conditional, but whether I am bisexual or not isn't. I am bisexual, always have been, always will be, and nothing will change that. I truly beleive it is part of my mental and physical make up, just as much as my race is.



Whether I beleive in God or not, I will always be a bisexual person, will this somehow inhibit my "salvation" ?

Lord Urizen
Oh, and I ignored your last response, because it is simply your intepretation of the bible, and is in no way more correct than my own.


I've read and trusted in the bible for years thank you very much...i know what it says, and nothing you have said convinces me that your intrepretations and assertions are factual. They are simply your take on the Bible, and in no way more valid than Regret's, Feceman's, Marcello's, or even my own.

Nellinator
Although it would seem that the one I am presenting to you has the most Biblically backing and is supported by Feceman if I remember correctly.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Nellinator
Although it would seem that the one I am presenting to you has the most Biblically backing and is supported by Feceman if I remember correctly.


Feceman also argues that Homosexuality is not a sin....what say you ? wink

Nellinator
That it is a sin, although Feceman and I have never discussed it.

debbiejo
To think of it, why and what would it be a sin..it is just a biological physical action.

AOR
Originally posted by Regret

*I believe in the Bible and the claims of Christianity, but my purpose with this thread is to show the hypocritical nature of Christianity when attacking the validity of beliefs they disagree with. As such, I will not respond to the attacks with my rebuttal due to the fact that I want the mainstream Christian response, not my own.

I feel that this should be mentioned only for the purpose of argument. Catholics do not make up the "whole" Christian aspect (i.e. Catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholic). Further more it is a strict teaching of toleration that no other religion comes as the scape goat, heated criticism, or even under prejudiced persecution. The Catholic Church rather supports other religions be them moral, just, and founded on love, but reserves to hold of the opinion that it is the one true church.

Regret
Originally posted by AOR
I feel that this should be mentioned only for the purpose of argument. Catholics do not make up the "whole" Christian aspect (i.e. Catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholic). Further more it is a strict teaching of toleration that no other religion comes as the scape goat, heated criticism, or even under prejudiced persecution. The Catholic Church rather supports other religions be them moral, just, and founded on love, but reserves to hold of the opinion that it is the one true church. Sorry, even Catholicism has joined in stating that my religion is not Christian, due to our beliefs as to the nature of the Godhead. Baptism is accepted from all Christian denominations by Catholicism, as such re-baptism following conversion to Catholicism is unnecessary. LDS converts are re-baptised currently, due to the Catholic Church's official stance that we are not Christians.

Also, we were stated as a group that attacked Christian marriage in the following:

IMO, this is a blatent attack.

Also, I am currently living in Utah and a few other locales dependent on where I am needed for professional purposes. In Utah, Catholic priests and other clergy have spoken against the LDS faith from their position. I have firsthand experience of this given my relation to various Catholic individuals, and my attending of Catholic mass with them from time to time. The Catholic Church is just as hypocritical and attacking as any mainstream Christian religion I have come into contact with.

I disagree with your stance that the Catholic church cannot be viewed as a part of this thread, although in the creation of, and my participation in, this thread I am referencing mainstream Christianity in main part, of which Catholicism is not considered a part.

AOR
Originally posted by Regret
Sorry, even Catholicism has joined in stating that my religion is not Christian, due to our beliefs as to the nature of the Godhead. Baptism is accepted from all Christian denominations by Catholicism, as such re-baptism following conversion to Catholicism is unnecessary. LDS converts are re-baptised currently, due to the Catholic Church's official stance that we are not Christians.

Also, we were stated as a group that attacked Christian marriage in the following:

IMO, this is a blatent attack.

Also, I am currently living in Utah and a few other locales dependent on where I am needed for professional purposes. In Utah, Catholic priests and other clergy have spoken against the LDS faith from their position. I have firsthand experience of this given my relation to various Catholic individuals, and my attending of Catholic mass with them from time to time. The Catholic Church is just as hypocritical and attacking as any mainstream Christian religion I have come into contact with.

I disagree with your stance that the Catholic church cannot be viewed as a part of this thread, although in the creation of, and my participation in, this thread I am referencing mainstream Christianity in main part, of which Catholicism is not considered a part.

I think what you fail to realize is that Catholicism came first. Before any other Christian denomination or association were Catholics. Some separations that followed were justified, but unnecessarily kept. And the many other separations were of mere conveniance. Christian main stream Hypocracy is infact just that "Christian". However you choose to embody in your argument that people who claim themselves catholic who out right (and unchristianly) criticise other peoples and faiths speak for the whole catholic church. If you convert to Catholicism than your adhereing to their teachings and doctrines.

Regret
Originally posted by AOR
I think what you fail to realize is that Catholicism came first. Before any other Christian denomination or association were Catholics. Some separations that followed were justified, but unnecessarily kept. And the many other separations were of mere conveniance. Christian main stream Hypocracy is infact just that "Christian". However you choose to embody in your argument that people who claim themselves catholic who out right (and unchristianly) criticise other peoples and faiths speak for the whole catholic church. If you convert to Catholicism than your adhereing to their teachings and doctrines. Catholicism came before the current Christian movements, it was not the first, it only claims that it was. The Gnostic movement occurred prior to the Catholic movement as did other early Christian movements. Catholicism is only one of the earliest Christian movements, not the first and historically not the original. The Gnostics and the other early sects, as well as Catholicism, all claimed to have originated with the apostles. All the Catholic Church has is the same claim as the rest from the period.

I do believe that clergy do speak for the church to their congregations, if they do not then they have no authority to speak to their congregations.

In this thread I have presented two criticisms of Christianity presented by a Jewish Rabbi. The attacks are similar to attacks on my religion. They are what I am addressing. How do you respond to the Jew as to them? If your rationale is similar to mine in rebuttal to the attacks on my faith, how can you state that my rationale is flawed? There is hypocrisy in that much rationale used is the same as rationale that is decried as false.

AOR

Regret

Black Dalek
...Bible and Christianity is hypocrisy, end of story.

Lord Urizen
Originally posted by Black Dalek
...Bible and Christianity is hypocrisy, end of story.


YEPPETY DOOO

Badabing
Originally posted by Regret
I chose to present these two due to the same attacks made on my Mormon faith by mainstream Christians. I have posted these to have the mainstream Christians respond to the attack. If the attacks on my beliefs are valid, then these too should be valid.

If someone has additional attacks used by mainstream Christians against another religion, and the same attack can be used against Christianity, this thread is for that, as well as mainstream Christianity's response to the various attacks.

*I believe in the Bible and the claims of Christianity, but my purpose with this thread is to show the hypocritical nature of Christianity when attacking the validity of beliefs they disagree with. As such, I will not respond to the attacks with my rebuttal due to the fact that I want the mainstream Christian response, not my own.
Hmm, I'm not sure which sect of mainstream Christianity promotes such intolerance. I was raised Catholic and we were taught tolerance, compassion and understanding. Those remarks are more of a radical sect than mainstream.

Regret
Originally posted by Badabing
Hmm, I'm not sure which sect of mainstream Christianity promotes such intolerance. I was raised Catholic and we were taught tolerance, compassion and understanding. Those remarks are more of a radical sect than mainstream. Catholicism, while large in claimed membership, is not mainstream Christianity. The majority of Catholics are not much more than labeled such and hold to the label despite their lack of participation in the mass. Catholicism is also not the version of Christianity that is thought of when a non-Christian considers Christianity. Read the general threads concerning Christianity in nearly any forum and you will find the Christianity most non-Christians consider to be mainstream.

I was speaking of this mainstream Christianity, not necessarily Catholicism with this thread.

Badabing
Originally posted by Regret
Catholicism, while large in claimed membership, is not mainstream Christianity. The majority of Catholics are not much more than labeled such and hold to the label despite their lack of participation in the mass. Catholicism is also not the version of Christianity that is thought of when a non-Christian considers Christianity. Read the general threads concerning Christianity in nearly any forum and you will find the Christianity most non-Christians consider to be mainstream.

I was speaking of this mainstream Christianity, not necessarily Catholicism with this thread.
Thanks. big grin A lot of Fundamentalists make bombastic comments and claims concerning other religions and lifestyles. There are certain activities and choices I don't agree with but I would never tell others they will burn in Hell.

Shakyamunison
Originally posted by Badabing
Thanks. big grin A lot of Fundamentalists make bombastic comments and claims concerning other religions and lifestyles. There are certain activities and choices I don't agree with but I would never tell others they will burn in Hell.

You are a rarity. big grin

Regret
Originally posted by Badabing
Thanks. big grin A lot of Fundamentalists make bombastic comments and claims concerning other religions and lifestyles. There are certain activities and choices I don't agree with but I would never tell others they will burn in Hell. You are welcome.

I do not know where you are from, but in the US Catholics are one of the groups of Christians attacked by many mainstream Christians. JFK almost was not elected, and many analysts were surprised that he was, due to his Catholic affiliation.

Badabing
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
You are a rarity. big grin
Thank you. cool I hope that's being a rarity is a good thing to you. stick out tongue


Originally posted by Regret
You are welcome.

I do not know where you are from, but in the US Catholics are one of the groups of Christians attacked by many mainstream Christians. JFK almost was not elected, and many analysts were surprised that he was, due to his Catholic affiliation. That is true. Most Catholics (that I know) just want everybody to have compassion, understanding and respect for each other.

Blaxican
Oh for the love of...

When are people going to get it through their heads that it is not CHRISTIANS as a whole who do these things, but SELECT Christian subgroups that feel the need to so much of the heinous acts that have occurred.

Imperial_Samura
Originally posted by Regret
Catholicism did not exist prior to around 100 AD. It came about as Rome seized control of the Church....

Or, some would say, the Church began to seize Rome.



I think that would depend on where the answer where coming from. It is my experience that Catholicism is seen in a far higher way within Europe then it is in nations with strong English legacy - such as Australia and the US. As far as definitions of mainstream go Catholicism is both known of by those not of it (though often with misconceptions), and has a large following, even if one cuts away the "my parents were Catholic, so I guess that is what I am to" people.

And what exactly is "mainstream" Christianity? I would say that Catholicism is far more mainstream then many other branches of Christianity - which branch would you consider more mainstream beyond Protestantism? Orthodox has plenty of followers, but few enough people produce it as an answer to the question "what to you is mainstream Christianity?"

And I ask, as despite participating in more then a few such threads on this forum and others I am yet to see true consensus on the matter - far to many people like Marchello cutting away entire branches of Christianity based on what their perception of "true" Christianity is.

Though I agree about the people who just keep the label despite not really participating - but then the same is true for Protestants as well. People who keep their parents religions as a default while not being religious themselves.

Blaxican
Originally posted by Black Dalek
...Bible and Christianity is hypocrisy, end of story.

And other religions aren't ? Please, wannabe noob roll eyes (sarcastic)

Dreampanther
Originally posted by Blaxican
Oh for the love of...

When are people going to get it through their heads that it is not CHRISTIANS as a whole who do these things, but SELECT Christian subgroups that feel the need to so much of the heinous acts that have occurred.

Actually, you are quite correct. I have come to realise that I do not have a problem with Catholics as such - I have a problem with Catholic teachings. Why they do not allow people to use condoms, and why they try to make people believe they can buy off their guilt by doing a couple of Hail Mary's - only greed and hypocrisy can explain.

Same with the Dutch Reformed church - they ex-communicated the only person who actually stood up and said Apartheid was wrong - and it's been more than ten years since they have been proved wrong, and still they have issued no apology - yet some of my best friends were raised in that church.

Fortunately they managed to retain the ability to think for themselves, and escaped the indoctrination.

Christianity, when you come down to it, actually teaches you to treat others with respect (Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself) yet somehow, it has been twisted to mean that Christianity is better than other religions, and if you are not Christian, you will burn in Hell.

Fortunately I will have some good company...

Thundar
Originally posted by Dreampanther
Actually, you are quite correct. I have come to realise that I do not have a problem with Catholics as such - I have a problem with Catholic teachings. Why they do not allow people to use condoms, and why they try to make people believe they can buy off their guilt by doing a couple of Hail Mary's - only greed and hypocrisy can explain.


I think the problem with many Christians(including myself) is that we tend to practice on preaching the doctrines, as oppossed to practicing the "love" which the doctrine possesses.

The doctrines are still important as they represent the love embodied by God, but one definitely needs to put into practice what they preach.

Regret
Originally posted by Thundar
I think the problem with many Christians(including myself) is that we tend to practice on preaching the doctrines, as oppossed to practicing the "love" which the doctrine possesses.

The doctrines are still important as they represent the love embodied by God, but one definitely needs to put into practice what they preach. Hence the title of the thread.

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