Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

who wins?

Team 'American Panther'

versus

Team 'Iron Devil'

Team 2 ftw

Originally posted by masterbruce
who wins?

Team 'American Panther'

versus

Team 'Iron Devil'

Team One

Originally posted by guy222
Team One

bump

Originally posted by guy222
bump


STOP DOING THAT!!! :0

THIS SLAUGHTER. TEAM ONE. CAP CAN DEFEND THAT I.F. ALL DAY AND COUNTER.

Team 2.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Team 2. now DD aint beating both of them, and IF aint beating none.

Originally posted by King KAM
now DD aint beating both of them, and IF aint beating none.

I do think Fist can beat Panther. I also think DD can beat Cap or Panther.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I do think Fist can beat Panther. I also think DD can beat Cap or Panther.

DD aint beating Cap and I dont see how hes beating Panther with his gadgets.

Originally posted by Alfheim
DD aint beating Cap and I dont see how hes beating Panther with his gadgets.

Well as far as DD vs Cap goes, opinion vary. As far as Panther goes, what gadgets does he carry and use on a regular basis that helps him get a win on DD?

Originally posted by jrodslam
I do think Fist can beat Panther. I also think DD can beat Cap or Panther. jrod...weve gone into this millions of times, so lets just say for our two sakes that cap is fighting IF...

Originally posted by jrodslam
Well as far as DD vs Cap goes, opinion vary. As far as Panther goes, what gadgets does he carry and use on a regular basis that helps him get a win on DD?

Bro Shield thinks that Cap can handle DD. Shield also said that Blade could kill Wolverine, Blade could have done it but he refrained.

Apparently DD has admitted that Cap is faster than him.....but the bloody scan doesnt work so I didnt get to see it.

Cap is stronger, has more stamina, has more experience, has an indestructible weapon that he can use at long range and is more versatile than his Billyclub. Probably knows more styles than DD and you think DDs gonna beat him?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Bro Shield thinks that Cap can handle DD. Shield also said that Blade could kill Wolverine, Blade could have done it but he refrained.

Apparently DD has admitted that Cap is faster than him.....but the bloody scan doesnt work so I didnt get to see it.

Cap is stronger, has more stamina, has more experience, has an indestructible weapon that he can use at long range and is more versatile than his Billyclub. Probably knows more styles than DD and you think DDs gonna beat him?

Shield thinks that Cap can handle DD you say? So.

DD HAS admitted that Cap was faster thsan him, BUT that was only running speed. Hand hand or fighting speed. No need to look for scan cause ihave the comic.

Cap being stronger doesnt play much of a factor cause DD will make his hits less effective. Experience and stamina also wont play a foctor because the fight wont last that long. Cap shield would be useless in a fight against DD unless he keeps it in his hand for thge duration of the fight. Also, what makes you think Cap knows more styles than DD? Anything to back this statement up?

THOUGH I DON'T AGREE THAT DD CAN BEAT CAP IN THIS BATTLE IT DOESNT MATTER BECAUSE I.F. CANT BEAT HIM AT ALL. IF WOULD CAN MAYBE SNEAK A WIN ON BP BUT IT WOULD BE A LONG DRAWN OUT BATTLE. SO TEAM ONE WITH EASE.

Originally posted by braz
STOP DOING THAT!!! :0

Team 1 wins

Originally posted by jrodslam
Shield thinks that Cap can handle DD you say? So.

They are experts and its their business to get things right. They were right about Blade and Wolverien its just that Blade didnt go through with it.

Originally posted by jrodslam

DD HAS admitted that Cap was faster thsan him, BUT that was only running speed. Hand hand or fighting speed. No need to look for scan cause ihave the comic.

Ok so his muscles enbale him to move faster than DD how would that NOT help him for example to move faster in combat?

eg moving in and out of range. Punching on the opponent them moving out so he cant get hit or if he can run faster why wouldnt his kicks be faster the list goes on.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Cap being stronger doesnt play much of a factor cause DD will make his hits less effective.

Doubt it, explain though.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Experience and stamina also wont play a foctor because the fight wont last that long.

Why wouldnt the fight last long? Experinece wouldnt help in a short fight anyway.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Cap shield would be useless in a fight against DD unless he keeps it in his hand for thge duration of the fight.

Wow....why would it be useless?

Originally posted by jrodslam

Also, what makes you think Cap knows more styles than DD? Anything to back this statement up?

Ive seen Cap classified in terms of fighting skill above DD.

Cap is said to be one of the earths greatest combatants DD isnt and DD says so himself.

It stated by ememies of Shang Chi that Cap is better than Shang who **** their pants and ran.

Shang is possibly better than DD in H2H because he beat a guy called Ghostmaker in H2H who almost killed DD.

I will say this though. Even back in WW2 Cap knew ninjutsu, if he knew that way back then and he has been training all this time, logically he probably knows more than DD.

Originally posted by Alfheim
They are experts and its their business to get things right. They were right about Blade and Wolverien its just that Blade didnt go through with it.

You said that Shield THINKS that Cap can handle DD. Thats just an opinion. An uncertain one at that. Where was this stated?
Wolvie and Blade has nothing to do with Cap and DD.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok so his muscles enbale him to move faster than DD how would that NOT help him for example to move faster in combat?

eg moving in and out of range. Punching on the opponent them moving out so he cant get hit or if he can run faster why wouldnt his kicks be faster the list goes on.

Running speed doesnt equate to hand speed. Cap was stated to be a faster runner than DD. Yea it helps Cap in combat if hes actually running from Matt.

Moving in and out of range isnt the same as sprinting 3 or 4 blocks. Dd probably would be able to keep up with Cap for a few steps, but not in a full sprint.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Doubt it, explain though.

Why wouldnt the fight last long? Experinece wouldnt help in a short fight anyway.

Wow....why would it be useless?

Cap being stronger doesnt help because DD fightinbg skills allow him to roll with the punches, making them less effective. Plus Cap isnt stronger by DD much.

Both at peak, the fight isnt lasting long enough to the point where DD will start to get fatigued. Unlike against Spiderman, Daredevil wouldnt have to waste as much energy evading and rolling with punches. I dont see how Cap experience would help him here.

His shield would be useless to throw imo. Its not like hed actually hit DD with it. Plus DD already knows the ricocheting capabilities of the shield. By now, Cap probably knows this as well. It would most likely be a pure h2h fight if they ever did mix it up again. Like i said before. Cap would be better off keeping it on his arm.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ive seen Cap classified in terms of fighting skill above DD.

Cap is said to be one of the earths greatest combatants DD isnt and DD says so himself.

Classifications mean nothing imo. Id rather go by whats shown on panel.

Im not doubting Cap is one of Earths greatest combatants. Not at all. DD saying so means just that. Hes one of the greatest. Doesnt mean hes a better h2h combatant than Matt though.

Originally posted by Alfheim
It stated by ememies of Shang Chi that Cap is better than Shang who **** their pants and ran.

Shang is possibly better than DD in H2H because he beat a guy called Ghostmaker in H2H who almost killed DD.

Saying that Cap is better than Shang Chi doesnt mean Cap knows more styles. Theres a difference. Cap can know 3 stlyes and be a master of them and yet be more effective in combat than Shang who knows 10 styles and has mastered all of them.

ABC logic can really be used in determining who is better of combatants. DD beat Wolverine and Wolvie beat Shang. Secondly, who knows if Ghostmaker was gonna kill DD. He was talking s**t like all villains do. Thirdly, he didnt fight in pure h2h with DD. He also used a shock device to temporarily stun DD. Thats all.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I will say this though. Even back in WW2 Cap knew ninjutsu, if he knew that way back then and he has been training all this time, logically he probably knows more than DD.

Cap knew ninjitsu back in WW2? Still not a master like DD is though. Either way, Cap couldnt have been training in that all this time. Wasnt he frozen for a decade? When did he have the time to master the style? Logically, he may know more than DD. Logically, hes not a master at but a couple of styles.

Team 2 ftw

I don't believe the skill difference between Cap and DD is so great that Cap would be a clear winner everytime, it would definitely be a toss up everytime those two met (with a slight advantage to Cap). My mind tells me that BP would beat IF, but IF is suppose to be a top tier fighter, so I don't know. However, IF can heal himself and DD with his Chi if either of them sustains massive injuries. Not to mention IF can take out either combatant if he can get a IFfist shot onto one of them. I'd say team 2 6/10.

I would lose to Captain America. He has that deadly shield throw, and i cant dodge or grab it.

Black Panther would headlock myhead off.

Dare Devil? I would use my peakhumanstealht and strike him downf rom behind. i have control over lal my muscles through intense training, he wont hear them.

and iron fist, well, i kicks his ass, oldschoolstyle

Originally posted by jrodslam
You said that Shield THINKS that Cap can handle DD. Thats just an opinion. An uncertain one at that. Where was this stated?
Wolvie and Blade has nothing to do with Cap and DD.

Yeah it does. If somebody makes a prediction and its right its evidence that if they make another one that will be right also.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Running speed doesnt equate to hand speed. Cap was stated to be a faster runner than DD. Yea it helps Cap in combat if hes actually running from Matt.

Of course not.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Moving in and out of range isnt the same as sprinting 3 or 4 blocks. Dd probably would be able to keep up with Cap for a few steps, but not in a full sprint.

Of course not but if you have powerful legs obvoulsy they are going to help with mobility in combat. Weight lifting isnt the same as punching but obvoulsy having powerful muscles will help in punching power.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Cap being stronger doesnt help because DD fightinbg skills allow him to roll with the punches, making them less effective. Plus Cap isnt stronger by DD much.

Thats true.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Both at peak, the fight isnt lasting long enough to the point where DD will start to get fatigued. Unlike against Spiderman, Daredevil wouldnt have to waste as much energy evading and rolling with punches.


How do you know that. What are you telling me that DD is going to finish him off easily. In all honesty Cap would probably hit DD more often that Spiderman would considering the fact that Spiderman cant take Cap in H2H but can beeat up DD badly.


Originally posted by jrodslam

I dont see how Cap experience would help him here.

Sorry bro, but thats a stupid statement, please make an effort.

Originally posted by jrodslam

His shield would be useless to throw imo. Its not like hed actually hit DD with it. Plus DD already knows the ricocheting capabilities of the shield. By now, Cap probably knows this as well. It would most likely be a pure h2h fight if they ever did mix it up again. Like i said before. Cap would be better off keeping it on his arm.


DD knows it can bounce off walls that all and like I said Cap doesnt even need to aim it at him. Cap can do to DD what hes done to Spiderman and Namor move them into a dierection he wants so he can hit them. DD is not as versatile as Cap is with his shield and Cap could decide to smash his billy clubs up so DD will have to fight without it

Originally posted by jrodslam

Classifications mean nothing imo. Id rather go by whats shown on panel.

True but even on Panel Cap gets more props than DD. You hear other people commenting on Caps H2H technique even when hes not even in the comic eg Wolverine talking about Caps technique when he was in an MA tournament.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Im not doubting Cap is one of Earths greatest combatants. Not at all. DD saying so means just that. Hes one of the greatest. Doesnt mean hes a better h2h combatant than Matt though.

True.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Saying that Cap is better than Shang Chi doesnt mean Cap knows more styles. Theres a difference. Cap can know 3 stlyes and be a master of them and yet be more effective in combat than Shang who knows 10 styles and has mastered all of them.

Er maybe.....I think Cap has mastered more than 3 styles.

Originally posted by jrodslam

ABC logic can really be used in determining who is better of combatants. DD beat Wolverine and Wolvie beat Shang. Secondly, who knows if Ghostmaker was gonna kill DD. He was talking s**t like all villains do. Thirdly, he didnt fight in pure h2h with DD. He also used a shock device to temporarily stun DD. Thats all.


In all fairness DD beating Wolverine that easy was PIS. Wolverine beating Shnag in 3 panels was PIS.

True Ghostmakes did use a shockdevice. All I can say is that Shang seemed to have done slightly better. Shang compeletly and utterly stomped GM (Ghostmaker) even when he pulled out his weapons. DD obvoulsy was doing better than GM but GM could have serioulsy wounded him if it wasnt for his armour plating and even at one point put DD on the defensive a bit.

In their first fight GM wasnt doing to badly until Elecktra came and distracted GM. It seems Shang did do slightly better than DD and its been stated that Cap is better than Shang by Shang villains. People who fight Shang Chi on a regular basis are good judges.


Originally posted by jrodslam
Cap knew ninjitsu back in WW2? Still not a master like DD is though.

DD wasnt even born yet.....

Originally posted by jrodslam

Either way, Cap couldnt have been training in that all this time.


Well yeah he would be training in that and other martial arts.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Wasnt he frozen for a decade?

Yeah and when he came out I dont even think DD had started his superhero career.

Originally posted by jrodslam

When did he have the time to master the style? Logically, he may know more than DD. Logically, hes not a master at but a couple of styles.

Well logically he should be a master of every style. Cap was also sent back in time by Korvac every time Korvac defeated him. Everytime Cap was sent back he had to think of new way to defeat him. Cap obvoulsy still trained and he had to train other people as well, one time reboot lasted 20 years.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Bro Shield thinks that Cap can handle DD. Shield also said that Blade could kill Wolverine, Blade could have done it but he refrained.

Apparently DD has admitted that Cap is faster than him.....but the bloody scan doesnt work so I didnt get to see it.

Cap is stronger, has more stamina, has more experience, has an indestructible weapon that he can use at long range and is more versatile than his Billyclub. Probably knows more styles than DD and you think DDs gonna beat him?
wortst example ever.....hell blade made funn of shield tactions.

Wolverine who was tired from fighting omega red toyed with blade and was winning the encounter.......so much for your whole arguement.

Your only evidence works against you in this case.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah it does. If somebody makes a prediction and its right its evidence that if they make another one that will be right also.

Not true. You said that shield thinks, thus its an educated guess. thats all it can be. How? Because the times that they have fought, someone wasnt in their right mind or someone was fatigued. They dont have any pure fights to judge.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Of course not but if you have powerful legs obvoulsy they are going to help with mobility in combat. Weight lifting isnt the same as punching but obvoulsy having powerful muscles will help in punching power.

Powerful legs help in combat mobility wise with agility probably more than anything. Daredevil is more agile than Cap, yet Cap runs faster. Having powerful muscles does help in punching power indeed. Knowing how to punch would help more. My point is.....muscles aint everything.

Originally posted by Alfheim
How do you know that. What are you telling me that DD is going to finish him off easily. In all honesty Cap would probably hit DD more often that Spiderman would considering the fact that Spiderman cant take Cap in H2H but can beeat up DD badly.

I know that because its been shown. Daredevil has to waste much more energy when fighting Spiderman than he does fighting Captain America. It just takes more out of him because Spidey is so strong and fast. To my knowledge, i dont think Cap has fought Spidey nearly as much as DD has. Again, ABC logic doesnt always work.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Sorry bro, but thats a stupid statement, please make an effort.

Ehh, i dont think its a stupid statement. Sometimes experience is overrated. In this particular case, it is. A stupid statement is to say Cap has experience over DD because its obvious that exp wouldnt play much of a factor if they were to fight.

Originally posted by Alfheim
DD knows it can bounce off walls that all and like I said Cap doesnt even need to aim it at him. Cap can do to DD what hes done to Spiderman and Namor move them into a dierection he wants so he can hit them. DD is not as versatile as Cap is with his shield and Cap could decide to smash his billy clubs up so DD will have to fight without it

DD uses his clubs just how Cap used his shield throwing wise. By now DD knows that Cap doesnt have to aim at him. Same can be said about DD throwing the clubs. DD's clubs arent as versatile protection wise and they can cut like the shield can, but they are both used very similar. Also, Cap isnt smashing DDs clubs unless he does it via shield bash on the floor. If Cap throws his shield, he probably wouldnt even get it back.

Originally posted by Alfheim
True but even on Panel Cap gets more props than DD. You hear other people commenting on Caps H2H technique even when hes not even in the comic eg Wolverine talking about Caps technique when he was in an MA tournament.

I dont care about props. People can comment on Cap, but it still doesnt mean hes better than DD.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Er maybe.....I think Cap has mastered more than 3 styles.

Id love to know what they are.

Originally posted by Alfheim
In all fairness DD beating Wolverine that easy was PIS. Wolverine beating Shnag in 3 panels was PIS.

True Ghostmakes did use a shockdevice. All I can say is that Shang seemed to have done slightly better. Shang compeletly and utterly stomped GM (Ghostmaker) even when he pulled out his weapons. DD obvoulsy was doing better than GM but GM could have serioulsy wounded him if it wasnt for his armour plating and even at one point put DD on the defensive a bit.

In their first fight GM wasnt doing to badly until Elecktra came and distracted GM. It seems Shang did do slightly better than DD and its been stated that Cap is better than Shang by Shang villains. People who fight Shang Chi on a regular basis are good judges.

Hey, in all fairness, Wolvie beating powerhouses is PIS also.

Difference between DDs fight with Ghostmaker and Shangs was that GM and SC fought in pure h2h first. Thqat wasnt the case with DD and GM. They always had the weapons. Secondly, GM didnt use anything like what he used against DD on SC. As for GM being able to seriously wound DD had it not been for the armor, that proves the point i wasnt trying to make in another thread. When DD was wearing that suit for that time period, he fought differently. He fought sloppy and with more rage. Hes mentioned that already. When DD is wearing the all red, he fights much better.

I dont know. Daredevil stated that he could have beat GM without Elektra. Also, GM broke 3 of shangs ribs and they seemed to have traded more blows. I have to look at that fight again. I dont rank Shang in terms of MA prowess as high as i do DD, IF and others.

Originally posted by Alfheim
DD wasnt even born yet.....

Doesnt matter. I highly doubt Cap is a master at ninjistu.


Originally posted by Alfheim
Well yeah he would be training in that and other martial arts.

Which is why i dont think that Cap is a master at more than 3 styles.


Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah and when he came out I dont even think DD had started his superhero career.

Again, doesnt matter.


Originally posted by Alfheim
Well logically he should be a master of every style. Cap was also sent back in time by Korvac every time Korvac defeated him. Everytime Cap was sent back he had to think of new way to defeat him. Cap obvoulsy still trained and he had to train other people as well, one time reboot lasted 20 years.

Logically, he shouldnt be a master at every style. Hes never had the time to fully train in every style to be a master at it imo. True Cap has trained others, but id like to see someone in a comic where it states that Cap is a master at every form of MA. Thats why i think the Marvel fighting skill ratings/meanings should be changed.

Originally posted by capt it up
Wolverine who was tired from fighting omega red toyed with blade and was winning the encounter.......so much for your whole arguement.

When was this Capt?

Originally posted by capt it up


Wolverine who was tired from fighting omega red toyed with blade and was winning the encounter.......so much for your whole arguement.

Your only evidence works against you in this case.


as i recall, (and correct me if i'm wrong) they both had just been thru a fight..and seeing as how your always bragging bout Wolverines god-like healing ability...he should have had ample enuff time to get back to normal, and yet they appeared to be evenly matched.

Cap for the win though, hands down he is in the top three best of MU Earths' combantants...Panther and Danny would be a more interesting fight

We can debate forever over which fighters are best. I think enough comics have shown that each of these characters are in league with the others. But, as much as I'm a big Iron Fist fan, I have to say that the end result would be Cap and B.P. based on team work. They've fought together more often than I.F. and D.D.
Team work counts for alot!

Despite that, I'm going with JudgeRevenge and myself for the win over both teams, even though we've never fought togtether before.

Originally posted by jrodslam
When was this Capt?
in a civil war cross over that came out like a month or two ago maybe later.

Originally posted by Sin I AM
as i recall, (and correct me if i'm wrong) they both had just been thru a fight..and seeing as how your always bragging bout Wolverines god-like healing ability...he should have had ample enuff time to get back to normal, and yet they appeared to be evenly matched.

Cap for the win though, hands down he is in the top three best of MU Earths' combantants...Panther and Danny would be a more interesting fight
Nope blade had not been through a fight actaully so your wrong.

Oh and Blade had one sided prep.

Did you even read the issue? Logan could have killed Blade 3 times. He held back the entire fight. Blade was getting his ass kicked versed a weaken wolverine who was toying with him.

Oh also do you even know what omega red does? Obviously not. Omega red power weakens logans healing factor not to mention they went 15 rounds amplying it was a huge battle.


So your whole post was crapp.

Purely H2H, aka no devices to screw up DD's senses you have two of earths best fighters against possibly earths best fighter and someone who is so so with nifty suit. BP is really the weak link here, if he was swapped with someone a bit more fitted I could see team one taking he heafty majority. As for now im leaning towards team 2

Originally posted by StarsNeverFall7
Purely H2H, aka no devices to screw up DD's senses you have two of earths best fighters against possibly earths best fighter and someone who is so so with nifty suit. BP is really the weak link here, if he was swapped with someone a bit more fitted I could see team one taking he heafty majority. As for now im leaning towards team 2
I agree

though black panther more then so so. He a great fighter he just not up to the others level.

Well, I mean in comparision to the others so yea. Exactly.

Agreed with the last 2 posts.

Capt, do they show REd and Wolvie fighting? Or was it talked about? Let me get the comic and issue # please.

Also, in response to FOOMs post, Daredevil and Fist have teammed up alot. True its not as much as Panther and Cap, but they know each other VERY well personality and move/fighting skill wise.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Not true. You said that shield thinks, thus its an educated guess. thats all it can be. How? Because the times that they have fought, someone wasnt in their right mind or someone was fatigued. They dont have any pure fights to judge.

Ok afir enough.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Powerful legs help in combat mobility wise with agility probably more than anything. Daredevil is more agile than Cap, yet Cap runs faster. Having powerful muscles does help in punching power indeed. Knowing how to punch would help more. My point is.....muscles aint everything.

Well at the end of tha day you said it would help thats all I need to know. You know there is no evidence to say that DD is more agile really.


Originally posted by jrodslam

I know that because its been shown. Daredevil has to waste much more energy when fighting Spiderman than he does fighting Captain America. It just takes more out of him because Spidey is so strong and fast. To my knowledge, i dont think Cap has fought Spidey nearly as much as DD has. Again, ABC logic doesnt always work.


No but Cap has done better than DD has, I don think that DD has put Spiderman flat on his back with one punch and made him see stars. Using that logic Cap would be more trouble than Spiderman.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Ehh, i dont think its a stupid statement. Sometimes experience is overrated. In this particular case, it is. A stupid statement is to say Cap has experience over DD because its obvious that exp wouldnt play much of a factor if they were to fight.

Cap clearly has more experience and why awouldnt it help?


Originally posted by jrodslam

DD uses his clubs just how Cap used his shield throwing wise. By now DD knows that Cap doesnt have to aim at him. Same can be said about DD throwing the clubs. DD's clubs arent as versatile protection wise and they can cut like the shield can, but they are both used very similar.

The Billy clubs are not as versatile as his shield and dont do as much damage, period.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Also, Cap isnt smashing DDs clubs unless he does it via shield bash on the floor.

Yeah of course because hes smashed stuff much harder than DDs clubs. Cap would need to smash on the floor.

Originally posted by jrodslam

If Cap throws his shield, he probably wouldnt even get it back. .


Maybe but like I said he doesnt even have to aim at him.

Originally posted by jrodslam

I dont care about props. People can comment on Cap, but it still doesnt mean hes better than DD.

Maybe but it deosnt hurt when people comment on it.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Id love to know what they are.

I dont know but considerng the fact that he has some control over chi and knew what ninjuitus was at the beggining of his career AND he spend his time constantly training I think he mastered more than 3 styles.



Originally posted by jrodslam

Hey, in all fairness, Wolvie beating powerhouses is PIS also.


No but I cant be bothered to get into that....for starters his claws are super sharp.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Difference between DDs fight with Ghostmaker and Shangs was that GM and SC fought in pure h2h first. Thqat wasnt the case with DD and GM. They always had the weapons. Secondly, GM didnt use anything like what he used against DD on SC. As for GM being able to seriously wound DD had it not been for the armor, that proves the point i wasnt trying to make in another thread. When DD was wearing that suit for that time period, he fought differently. He fought sloppy and with more rage. Hes mentioned that already. When DD is wearing the all red, he fights much better.

I dont know. Daredevil stated that he could have beat GM without Elektra.

Ok, well to be a fair that wasnt much betwee DDs fight with GMs and Shangs.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Also, GM broke 3 of shangs ribs and they seemed to have traded more blows. I have to look at that fight again. I dont rank Shang in terms of MA prowess as high as i do DD, IF and others.

Well this is the thing Shang wasnt wearing any amour and quite frankly Shang stomped GM. GM only punched Shang once, GM even pulled some weapons on him and Shang still stomped his butt. The fight is in the Shang Chi respect thread.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Doesnt matter.
I highly doubt Cap is a master at ninjistu.


Again that is a stupid statement to make. Cap trains constantly, he knew about ninjitsu before DD was born. Why wouldnt he be a master of ninjuitsu?


Originally posted by jrodslam

Which is why i dont think that Cap is a master at more than 3 styles.


That response doesnt make any sense.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Again, doesnt matter.


Ok explain why it doesnt matter.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Logically, he shouldnt be a master at every style. Hes never had the time to fully train in every style to be a master at it imo. True Cap has trained others, but id like to see someone in a comic where it states that Cap is a master at every form of MA. Thats why i think the Marvel fighting skill ratings/meanings should be changed.

Ok did you read the bit where I said Cap was sent back in time, hundreds of times? That was planety of time to master every martial art. Besides Batman career I think is shoter than Caps and hes mastered many styles.....its a comcbook.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well at the end of tha day you said it would help thats all I need to know. You know there is no evidence to say that DD is more agile really.

It would help moreso agility wise. No evidence to say that DD is more agile than Cap? Next to Spidey, Beast and Nightcrawler, Daredevil is the next best thing. Of all the people Taskmaster has borrowed abilities from, he uses Daredevils and Spidermans agility.

Originally posted by Alfheim
No but Cap has done better than DD has, I dont think that DD has put Spiderman flat on his back with one punch and made him see stars. Using that logic Cap would be more trouble than Spiderman.

Has Cap done better than DD has? Daredevil has knocked Spiderman out on more than 1 occasion. Because Cap has knocked Spiderman down and made him see stars its logic that hed be harder for DD to defeat than Spidey? I dont see it that way.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Cap clearly has more experience and why wouldnt it help?

I already said why it wouldnt help in a fight against Daredevil. Please explain how it would help.

Originally posted by Alfheim
The Billy clubs are not as versatile as his shield and dont do as much damage, period.

Yeah of course because hes smashed stuff much harder than DDs clubs. Cap would need to smash on the floor.

Maybe but like I said he doesnt even have to aim at him.

Its obvious the clubs wouldnt do as much damage. Thats impossible. I never stated otherwise. I did say that they were used the same way and they are as versatile offensively for the most part. The clubs cant cut/slice things however. The shield is better defensive wise.

Again, i said the only way Cap is smashing DD's clubs, is via shield bashing it on the floor.

DD knows Cap doesnt have to aim at him. DD doesnt have to aim the clubs at Cap either.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Maybe but it deosnt hurt when people comment on it.

But who cares. It doesnt help any.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I dont know but considerng the fact that he has some control over chi and knew what ninjuitus was at the beggining of his career AND he spend his time constantly training I think he mastered more than 3 styles.

Because he knew what ninjistu was at the beginnign of his career means nothing. For all we know, he could have spent most of his time training in boxing and judo. Hell, he could have trained in tactical warfare for a decade or two.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well this is the thing Shang wasnt wearing any amour and quite frankly Shang stomped GM. GM only punched Shang once, GM even pulled some weapons on him and Shang still stomped his butt. The fight is in the Shang Chi respect thread.

Shang wasnt wearing any armor, but DD wasnt fightint at normal capability. At that time while wearing the red and grey suit, Daredevil wasnt even in his right state of mind. And like i said, the weapons he used against Shang are < the electrical throwing weapons used against DD.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Again that is a stupid statement to make. Cap trains constantly, he knew about ninjitsu before DD was born. Why wouldnt he be a master of ninjuitsu?

How is that a stupid statement to make? Explain. So what if he knew about it before DD was born. He may have knowledge in it, but hes not a master at ninjistu. When does/did Cap have time to train in that? Before the boxing? Before the Judo? Before being frozen? Before fighting in the war and joining the All Winners Squad and Invaders? Just because you have knowledge in the art doesnt mean your a master at it.

Originally posted by Alfheim
That response doesnt make any sense.

Ok explain why it doesnt matter.

Already explained it. In previous posts as well. Regardless if DD was born or not, it doesnt automatically mean Cap is a master at it. There are only about 4 masters of ninjistu in Marvel street level wise that i know of. Thats Wolverine, Iron Fist, Daredevil, Black Widow and Elektra. Might be a couple more im forgetting, but Cap isnt one of them.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok did you read the bit where I said Cap was sent back in time, hundreds of times? That was planety of time to master every martial art. Besides Batman career I think is shoter than Caps and hes mastered many styles.....its a comcbook.

Send back in time hundreds of times? For how long? And in those hundreds of times, hes mastered the Arts? Youre right. If thats the case, he should have mastered every martial art, yet for some reason, its never mentioned. Batman is said to have master 127 forms of martial arts of combat. I dont totally believe that either. I would believe hes mastered more than Cap for the simple fact thats hes been training since he was a kid. He actually had the time to do so and master more than have knowledge in many things.

Its clear we wont see eye to eye on this. Its cool. Opinions vary.

Impressive posts Jrod, as good as Cap is, you could always go into the whole hearing muscle contractions to predict movements, or if BP was going to do something, and etc. DD has a pretty nice advantage in the whole senses department, it hands him some redicilous advantages.

silly jrod....if you ever ask Capt for the issue so that you can check for yourself....not only will he take forever to tell you and will probably only tell since i made this post. BUT it will 9 times out of 10 not show exactly what he said.

Damn KAM.

Hasn't Dare Devil admitted (more then once) that he is no match for Black Panther?

Cap and BP are look at pretty close to a clean sweep here. 8-9/10

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Hasn't Dare Devil admitted (more then once) that he is no match for Black Panther?

As far as i know, DD and BP only fought twice.

1st time, Panther was fighting mind control and DD was holding back, but he didint say he wasnt a match for Panther.

2nd time, Daredevil downed Panther briefly and kept someone from trying to kill themselves.

Ill check again.

Originally posted by StarsNeverFall7
Impressive posts Jrod, as good as Cap is, you could always go into the whole hearing muscle contractions to predict movements, or if BP was going to do something, and etc. DD has a pretty nice advantage in the whole senses department, it hands him some redicilous advantages.

No they were rubbish points but i'll deal with them later, alot of speculation. DDs radar sense is overated when he fights top tier fighters he gets punched in the face like everybody else.

Originally posted by jrodslam
It would help moreso agility wise. No evidence to say that DD is more agile than Cap? Next to Spidey, Beast and Nightcrawler, Daredevil is the next best thing.

I could be argued that Cap is just as agile or more agile than the Beast.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Of all the people Taskmaster has borrowed abilities from, he uses Daredevils and Spidermans agility.

Ok thats a good point, even if DD is more agile it would be only slightly.



Originally posted by jrodslam

Has Cap done better than DD has? Daredevil has knocked Spiderman out on more than 1 occasion. Because Cap has knocked Spiderman down and made him see stars its logic that hed be harder for DD to defeat than Spidey? I dont see it that way.

DD has knocked Spiderman on his back with one shot?


Originally posted by jrodslam

I already said why it wouldnt help in a fight against Daredevil. Please explain how it would help.

In all fairness I dont think you did. I think you just said it wouldnt help and thats it.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Its obvious the clubs wouldnt do as much damage. Thats impossible. I never stated otherwise. I did say that they were used the same way and they are as versatile offensively for the most part. The clubs cant cut/slice things however. The shield is better defensive wise.

DD has one billy club right. I dont even think DDs billy clubs are more versatile. Im willing to do a scan war to prove it.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Again, i said the only way Cap is smashing DD's clubs, is via shield bashing it on the floor.

Again you are making a statemnt without backing it up. Cap has destroyed things tougher than DDs billyclubs and all of a sudden he needs to bash it on the floor.

Originally posted by jrodslam

DD knows Cap doesnt have to aim at him.

Does he? Its not like they've fought each other alot even if he knows that, that doesnt means he will know exactly what hes trying to do.

Originally posted by jrodslam

DD doesnt have to aim the clubs at Cap either.

Never seen DD use his clubs in that way.

Originally posted by jrodslam

But who cares. It doesnt help any.

Not going to explain how experience helps.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Because he knew what ninjistu was at the beginnign of his career means nothing.

Thats bull****, logically if he knew what ninjiutsu was even back then that means hes even better at it now and probably knows more about MA than Matt does.


Originally posted by jrodslam

For all we know, he could have spent most of his time training in boxing and judo. Hell, he could have trained in tactical warfare for a decade or two.

Again rubbish. Its been stated on panel that Cap trains constantly. You have somebody who has been training constantly even before Matt was born and you dont think hes going to know more about MA than Matt. .....if your going to use the "maybe" argument then anythings possible.



Originally posted by jrodslam

Shang wasnt wearing any armor, but DD wasnt fightint at normal capability. At that time while wearing the red and grey suit, Daredevil wasnt even in his right state of mind. And like i said, the weapons he used against Shang are < the electrical throwing weapons used against DD.


Well anyway in hindsight I dont think GM is a good example. I still think Shang did slightly better, but only slightly.


Originally posted by jrodslam

How is that a stupid statement to make? Explain. So what if he knew about it before DD was born. He may have knowledge in it, but hes not a master at ninjistu. When does/did Cap have time to train in that? Before the boxing? Before the Judo? Before being frozen? Before fighting in the war and joining the All Winners Squad and Invaders? Just because you have knowledge in the art doesnt mean your a master at it.

Ive stated above that Cap trains constantly as well he doesnt just fight people.



Originally posted by jrodslam

Already explained it. In previous posts as well. Regardless if DD was born or not, it doesnt automatically mean Cap is a master at it. There are only about 4 masters of ninjistu in Marvel street level wise that i know of. Thats Wolverine, Iron Fist, Daredevil, Black Widow and Elektra. Might be a couple more im forgetting, but Cap isnt one of them.

Well I tell you what if Blak Widow is a master of ninjitus then logically Cap must be as well. It doesnt neccesarily have to state it is, common sense dictates it. Even if hes not a master of ninjitus he will know more about MA in general than Matt, common sense.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Send back in time hundreds of times? For how long? And in those hundreds of times, hes mastered the Arts? Youre right. If thats the case, he should have mastered every martial art, yet for some reason, its never mentioned.

Its never mentioned that Moondragon is one of the world powerful telepaths but if you look at her showings she is. Common sense.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Batman is said to have master 127 forms of martial arts of combat. I dont totally believe that either. I would believe hes mastered more than Cap for the simple fact thats hes been training since he was a kid. He actually had the time to do so and master more than have knowledge in many things.


Its a comicbook! C'mon man, you got people get hit by radiation instead of getting cancer they get powers.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Its clear we wont see eye to eye on this. Its cool. Opinions vary.

No no no, your not gonna get off that easy. Everyones entitled to their opinion but in this case I think you cant back up your points therefore your using the "opinions vary" escape clause.

Caps Conscience sheds tear as he reads Alfeim's powerful defense of Caps honor.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I could be argued that Cap is just as agile or more agile than the Beast.

Ok thats a good point, even if DD is more agile it would be only slightly.

Daredevils agility would play as much a factor in a fight between the two as Caps strength would. Slight if any at all.


Originally posted by Alfheim
DD has knocked Spiderman on his back with one shot?

Maybe. Maybe not, but im going going through every Daredevil and Spiderman fight to find out. Its irrelevant if Cap has knocked Spidey on his back with a punch. Has Cap knocked Spidey out on more than 1 occasion like DD has? I personally think thats more impressive.

Originally posted by Alfheim
In all fairness I dont think you did. I think you just said it wouldnt help and thats it.

I said it wouldnt help because neither of them would show something the other hasnt seen before. Exp is a non factor here.

Originally posted by Alfheim
DD has one billy club right. I dont even think DDs billy clubs are more versatile. Im willing to do a scan war to prove it.

DD has 2 clubs. Ive never stated DDs clubs are more versatile. Re-read my posts. Ive said that offensively, they are used highly similar. Difference offense wise would be that Cap can cut/slice with the shield. Defense wise, Caps shield obviously has the edge.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Again you are making a statemnt without backing it up. Cap has destroyed things tougher than DDs billyclubs and all of a sudden he needs to bash it on the floor.

Making statements without backing it up? I guess theres alot of that going around here. DD has blocked swords with his clubs as well as other sharp objects. Hes used the clubs to hit superhad object and they didnt break afterwards. DDs clubs are highly durable(the majority of the time). The only times ive seen them easily damaged that i can remeber is when Wolvie cut them.

So yea, i dont think Cap is breaking DD clubs with his bare hands. I dont think hes strong enough. They are a thick type of metal i believe. Not wood(usually). Thus, unless Cap uses the shiled, i dont see him breaking them.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Does he? Its not like they've fought each other alot even if he knows that, that doesnt means he will know exactly what hes trying to do.

Yea he does. They fought each other enough for him to know. Cap threw the shield and DD evaded. DD then realized that Cap wasnt actually aiming at him. that happened 3 times i believe. Maybe twice. Hes fought alongside Cap enough times to know that as well.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Never seen DD use his clubs in that way.

Believe me, he has. Right now im feeling kinda lazy. I really dont wanna start posting scans. Just take my word for it.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Not going to explain how experience helps.

In this situation, you should. How Caps experience is going to help against DD is something id like to hear. Neither of them will be seeing something new.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats bull****, logically if he knew what ninjiutsu was even back then that means hes even better at it now and probably knows more about MA than Matt does.

How is bulls**t? Did Cap ever train in ninjitsu? You cant assume he knows it or became a master at it. Just because he knows about it? Id love to see anything that implies Captain America knows more about Martial Arts than Daredevil does.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Again rubbish. Its been stated on panel that Cap trains constantly. You have somebody who has been training constantly even before Matt was born and you dont think hes going to know more about MA than Matt. .....if your going to use the "maybe" argument then anythings possible.

Its been stated that Cap trains in what? Trains caonstantly in acrobatics? Trains constantly in boxing and judo? Daredevil is also always training constantly.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well I tell you what if Blak Widow is a master of ninjitus then logically Cap must be as well. It doesnt neccesarily have to state it is, common sense dictates it. Even if hes not a master of ninjitus he will know more about MA in general than Matt, common sense.

Its not common sense youre using. Youre saying "Cap must be a master if so and so is a master, because hes known about it longer." Not mentioning that Cap has trained in ninjistsu. Has he? You dont know. You just make statements saying he does because he knew about it before they were born. Like i asked before, show me some type of proof that Cap knows more about MA than Daredevil and ill think about conceding. Till then......

Originally posted by Alfheim
Its never mentioned that Moondragon is one of the world powerful telepaths but if you look at her showings she is. Common sense.

Uhh yes it is mentioned that MD is one of the worlds most poweful telepaths. Her skills were on if not close to Strange level without the gem. What are you talking about?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Its a comicbook! C'mon man, you got people get hit by radiation instead of getting cancer they get powers.

I mentioned Bats because you make statements like Cap knows more than so and so, but nothing to prove that. Ninjistu for example, Bats actually trained in it. For years its commonly known. Its never even been stated that Cap has trained in certain arts.

Originally posted by Alfheim
No no no, your not gonna get off that easy. Everyones entitled to their opinion but in this case I think you cant back up your points therefore your using the "opinions vary" escape clause.

I back up my points as much as you do my friend. Like i stated, show me some prof of anything and ill start to concede. Show me proof that Cap may know more about Martial Arts than Daredevil. Show me proof that Cap is a master of ninjitsu. Until then its only speculation on your part and thus is an opinion. Which brings us back to my statement in saying "opinions vary".

Originally posted by jrodslam
Daredevils agility would play as much a factor in a fight between the two as Caps strength would. Slight if any at all.

I can settle for that.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Maybe. Maybe not, but im going going through every Daredevil and Spiderman fight to find out. Its irrelevant if Cap has knocked Spidey on his back with a punch.

Again another stupid statement. Of course its not irrelevant, DD has never knocked Spiderman out like that.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Has Cap knocked Spidey out on more than 1 occasion like DD has?

No because he hasnt fought Spiderman that many times.

Originally posted by jrodslam

I personally think thats more impressive.

Its not and i'll explain why its not. Often when DD has fought Spiderman, Spiderman has been inhibited by some means, like in one circumstance Spiderman was drugged up. When DD has knocked out Spiderman its has either:

a) taken several shots
b)been from behind.
c)Spiderman was inhibited by some means.

When Cap has fought Spiderman there have been no inhibiting factors. In their first fight Cap knocked Spiderman with ONE shot stright away DD hasnt done anything like that. In the Civil War Cap gave Spiderman a beating and he was upgraded. Even a robot clone of Spiderman said he couldnt take Cap in H2H.

DD might beat Spiderman in H2H but Spiderman will get stomped by Cap in H2H.


Originally posted by jrodslam

I said it wouldnt help because neither of them would show something the other hasnt seen before. Exp is a non factor here.

Exp enable you to predict events.....there you go. Cap has lots more than DD and it will help in the fight, doesnt mean its going to be easy.


Originally posted by jrodslam

DD has 2 clubs. Ive never stated DDs clubs are more versatile. Re-read my posts. Ive said that offensively, they are used highly similar. Difference offense wise would be that Cap can cut/slice with the shield. Defense wise, Caps shield obviously has the edge.


So in other words Caps shield is better:
a) offensively
b) defensively
c) more versatile.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Making statements without backing it up? I guess theres alot of that going around here. DD has blocked swords with his clubs as well as other sharp objects. Hes used the clubs to hit superhad object and they didnt break afterwards. DDs clubs are highly durable(the majority of the time). The only times ive seen them easily damaged that i can remeber is when Wolvie cut them.

So yea, i dont think Cap is breaking DD clubs with his bare hands. I dont think hes strong enough. They are a thick type of metal i believe. Not wood(usually). Thus, unless Cap uses the shiled, i dont see him breaking them.

Er I meant Cap can use his shield to smash his clubs in combat not use his bare hands.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Yea he does. They fought each other enough for him to know. Cap threw the shield and DD evaded. DD then realized that Cap wasnt actually aiming at him. that happened 3 times i believe. Maybe twice. Hes fought alongside Cap enough times to know that as well.


Ok but again that doesnt mean hes going to know exactly what hes going to do.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Believe me, he has. Right now im feeling kinda lazy. I really dont wanna start posting scans. Just take my word for it.

Ok.

Originally posted by jrodslam

In this situation, you should. How Caps experience is going to help against DD is something id like to hear. Neither of them will be seeing something new.


Again experience enables you to predict things before they happen. That doesnt mean it will be an easy fight. DD has radar sense that will help but that doesnt mean it will be easy to dodge punches.


Originally posted by jrodslam

How is bulls**t? Did Cap ever train in ninjitsu? You cant assume he knows it or became a master at it. Just because he knows about it?


Er back in WW2, a ninja stated that Cap knew their "art". Considering that was ages ago and he trains constantly of course he must have mastered it by now.

Originally posted by jrodslam

Id love to see anything that implies Captain America knows more about Martial Arts than Daredevil does.

I'll think I'll get onto that with my next post.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Its been stated that Cap trains in what? Trains caonstantly in acrobatics? Trains constantly in boxing and judo?

The **** you think? Cap doenst have optic blast, guns or an amoured suit. He beats people up by using MA of course it refered to martial arts.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/niggapleaserh6.jpg

Originally posted by jrodslam

Daredevil is also always training constantly.

Nahhhhh really. The point is Cap has been training constantly before DD was born common sense dictates he probably knows more than DD does.


Originally posted by jrodslam

Its not common sense youre using. Youre saying "Cap must be a master if so and so is a master, because hes known about it longer." Not mentioning that Cap has trained in ninjistsu. Has he? You dont know. You just make statements saying he does because he knew about it before they were born. Like i asked before, show me some type of proof that Cap knows more about MA than Daredevil and ill think about conceding. Till then......

Again I stated that a ninja said that Cap knew ninjiuts, in that incident Cap was owned but that was a long time ago and must have gotten better. Even if hes is not a master of ninjuitsu obvoulsy he must be very good at it now.

Furthermore it has been stated that Cap is one of the greatest martial artists on earth, you dont get to be this by mastering 3 styles. It has been stated that he has mastered boxing and judo, but if thats all hes mastered he would get the crap beaten out of him!



Originally posted by jrodslam

Uhh yes it is mentioned that MD is one of the worlds most poweful telepaths. Her skills were on if not close to Strange level without the gem. What are you talking about?

Ok fair enough, but my point is people dont have to say anything. In all fairness DD has never been mentioned as being one of the greatest martial artists in the world but do you need a poster for somebody to tell you that he is.

Originally posted by jrodslam

I mentioned Bats because you make statements like Cap knows more than so and so, but nothing to prove that. Ninjistu for example, Bats actually trained in it. For years its commonly known. Its never even been stated that Cap has trained in certain arts.

It been stated that he knows ninjuitsu. Cap taught Spiderman about chi. Chi is a word used in Chinese martial arts, so he knows Chinese martial arts as well.


Originally posted by jrodslam

I back up my points as much as you do my friend. Like i stated, show me some prof of anything and ill start to concede. Show me proof that Cap may know more about Martial Arts than Daredevil. Show me proof that Cap is a master of ninjitsu. Until then its only speculation on your part and thus is an opinion. Which brings us back to my statement in saying "opinions vary".

Ok lets put it this way. You have two martial artists who train alot. MA A and MA B. MA A has been training in martial arts before MA B was born who do you think probably knows more A or B?

Furthermore you CANT be one of the greatest martial artists on earth and only have mastered boxing and judo. If you were to go into an MA tournament only mastering bxoing and judo and other people know that and other stuff you well get ****ed up. Do I have to elaborate?

CAP AND BP for the large majority.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Again another stupid statement. Of course its not irrelevant, DD has never knocked Spiderman out like that.

The stupid statement is what? It IS irrelevant for the simple fact that Spiderman WASNT knocked out. Who cares if Cap knocked Spiderman on his back with a punch.

Originally posted by Alfheim
No because he hasnt fought Spiderman that many times.

Hey, youre the one who brought Spiderman into this. Its obvious overall DD has better showings against Spidey.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Its not and i'll explain why its not. Often when DD has fought Spiderman, Spiderman has been inhibited by some means, like in one circumstance Spiderman was drugged up. When DD has knocked out Spiderman its has either:

a) taken several shots
b)been from behind.
c)Spiderman was inhibited by some means.

When Cap has fought Spiderman there have been no inhibiting factors. In their first fight Cap knocked Spiderman with ONE shot stright away DD hasnt done anything like that. In the Civil War Cap gave Spiderman a beating and he was upgraded. Even a robot clone of Spiderman said he couldnt take Cap in H2H.

DD might beat Spiderman in H2H but Spiderman will get stomped by Cap in H2H.

It is, and ill explain why. Whenever Superheroes clash, 8/10 one of them are inhibited in a way. When DD knocked out Spidey...

a) It did take a few hits. So? At least he did it.
b) They were never from behind
c) Of the 2 times that i can remember, they both were inhibited and Spidey was blodlustsed(like the fights usually are here)

Caps brief scuffle with Spidey was indecisive. Spidey was swinging carelessly and Cap knocked him on his ass. Spidey even mentioned not having his guard up. The fight could have easily continued. Spidey wasnt knocked out, so because he was on his ass means nothing.

You have the nerve to bring up the Civil War fight? The fight were Spiderman tried to go pure h2h with Cap? The fight where Caps punches were cracking Ironmans armor and Luke Cage manhandled Samson? Secondly, Cap beating clones doesnt hold much weight. Eventhough he had the skills/abilities of the original, it was clear that he didint fight like the real thing. Hank Pym even stated that he noticed something was different about Spidey. Nice try though.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Exp enable you to predict events.....there you go. Cap has lots more than DD and it will help in the fight, doesnt mean its going to be easy.

Ehh not really. If they fight, what is Cap going to predict? His exp wouold help him deal with certain situations better than most, but thats about it. Caps exp hasnt helped him in a fight against DD yet. Theyve already had about 4 confrntations. Some of where they were inhibited as well.

Originally posted by Alfheim
So in other words Caps shield is better:
a) offensively
b) defensively
c) more versatile.

Ive never stated DD clubs were more versatile. However weapons wont play a factor in this fight unbless Cap holds on to his shield. Ive stated that in my last few posts. you seemed to have skipped that.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Er I meant Cap can use his shield to smash his clubs in combat not use his bare hands.

Thats the only way. Cap doing that would only leave himself open. Not a likely option.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok but again that doesnt mean hes going to know exactly what hes going to do.

8/10 he probably would.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Again experience enables you to predict things before they happen. That doesnt mean it will be an easy fight. DD has radar sense that will help but that doesnt mean it will be easy to dodge punches.

Again, i dont see how experience helps to predict things in a h2h fight. It does better help you to deal with certain things as ive stated already.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Er back in WW2, a ninja stated that Cap knew their "art". Considering that was ages ago and he trains constantly of course he must have mastered it by now.

Uhh, the ninja stated that Cap possessed knowledge of their martial arts. Its not common that a "Gaijin" would be familiar with some Eastern style. So that means Cap is a master at Eastern Martial Arts? Assumptions.

Originally posted by Alfheim
The **** you think? Cap doenst have optic blast, guns or an amoured suit. He beats people up by using MA of course it refered to martial arts.

What do i think? You have no clue at all. In all actuality, you dont know what type of martial arts hes constantly training in. You just know that he constsntly trains. Thats broad and would be inaccurate to make statements like "he must be a master at it, blah blah cause he knew about it back then!"

And the picture you posted doesnt help in debate.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Nahhhhh really. The point is Cap has been training constantly before DD was born common sense dictates he probably knows more than DD does.

Were going in circles. Like ive stated a few times already, you have no clue what type of martial arts Cap is constantly training in. regardless if he started training before DD was born, he may only constantly train in boxing and judo and be a master at only that. Daredevil could have constantly been training in ninjitsu, boxing, judo and aiki-jujutsu.


Originally posted by Alfheim
Again I stated that a ninja said that Cap knew ninjiuts, in that incident Cap was owned but that was a long time ago and must have gotten better. Even if hes is not a master of ninjuitsu obvoulsy he must be very good at it now.

Furthermore it has been stated that Cap is one of the greatest martial artists on earth, you dont get to be this by mastering 3 styles. It has been stated that he has mastered boxing and judo, but if thats all hes mastered he would get the crap beaten out of him!

Wrong. the ninja didnt state that Cap knew ninjitsu. He stated that Cap had knowledge of "OUR"(meaning eastern) martial arts.

I usually hear that Cap is one of the greatest combatants on Earth. There are other martial artists who aremore skilled than he is. Which brings us back to the statement i made a few posts ago. You can master 2 arts and still beat someone whos mastered 1 and knows 10 different ones. Just cause Cap may be a master at 2 styles doesnt mean hed get his assed kicked. Master at 2 and is familiar at others. Hes highly competent in what he DOES know. Taskmaster is a master at a few, but gets his ass beat cause his fighting ability sucks.


Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok fair enough, but my point is people dont have to say anything. In all fairness DD has never been mentioned as being one of the greatest martial artists in the world but do you need a poster for somebody to tell you that he is.

I personally think DD is more skilled than Cap. Overall.


Originally posted by Alfheim
It been stated that he knows ninjuitsu. Cap taught Spiderman about chi. Chi is a word used in Chinese martial arts, so he knows Chinese martial arts as well.

Its been stated that Cap knows ninjitsu? If it has, then what can i say. Cap telling Spidey about Chi should be common knowledge to someone whos a great fighter in the MA's. Which brings us back to Cap having knowledge of "Eastern" Martial Arts.


Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok lets put it this way. You have two martial artists who train alot. MA A and MA B. MA A has been training in martial arts before MA B was born who do you think probably knows more A or B?

Bad example. It all depends on what MA C(Cap) and MA D(DD) train in. If they train constantly in the same things and C was born before D, then yes hed know more. That isnt the case with Cap and DD. Sorry.


Originally posted by Alfheim
Furthermore you CANT be one of the greatest martial artists on earth and only have mastered boxing and judo. If you were to go into an MA tournament only mastering bxoing and judo and other people know that and other stuff you well get ****ed up. Do I have to elaborate?

I went into detail about this in my comment further up.

I give up. I still stand firm in saying DD and Fist take the majority. If you wanna continue this, find the largest Cap vs DD thread and bump it. This is slightly getting off topic. Have a good one.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Agreed with the last 2 posts.

Capt, do they show REd and Wolvie fighting? Or was it talked about? Let me get the comic and issue # please.

Also, in response to FOOMs post, Daredevil and Fist have teammed up alot. True its not as much as Panther and Cap, but they know each other VERY well personality and move/fighting skill wise.
no it was stated.
"Buddy, I just got back from fifteen rounds with omega red"

could have killed Blade on 62nd pannel to 65th pannel

Also could have on the 70th pannel.


also on 75th pannel and 77th.


your welcome to look it up.

It was Casualties of War It Takes One to kill One Blade a civil war tie-in featuring Wolverine issue 5.


sorry it took so long I have been very bussy.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Daredevils agility would play as much a factor in a fight between the two as Caps strength would. Slight if any at all.




Maybe. Maybe not, but im going going through every Daredevil and Spiderman fight to find out. Its irrelevant if Cap has knocked Spidey on his back with a punch. Has Cap knocked Spidey out on more than 1 occasion like DD has? I personally think thats more impressive.



I said it wouldnt help because neither of them would show something the other hasnt seen before. Exp is a non factor here.



DD has 2 clubs. Ive never stated DDs clubs are more versatile. Re-read my posts. Ive said that offensively, they are used highly similar. Difference offense wise would be that Cap can cut/slice with the shield. Defense wise, Caps shield obviously has the edge.



Making statements without backing it up? I guess theres alot of that going around here. DD has blocked swords with his clubs as well as other sharp objects. Hes used the clubs to hit superhad object and they didnt break afterwards. DDs clubs are highly durable(the majority of the time). The only times ive seen them easily damaged that i can remeber is when Wolvie cut them.

So yea, i dont think Cap is breaking DD clubs with his bare hands. I dont think hes strong enough. They are a thick type of metal i believe. Not wood(usually). Thus, unless Cap uses the shiled, i dont see him breaking them.



Yea he does. They fought each other enough for him to know. Cap threw the shield and DD evaded. DD then realized that Cap wasnt actually aiming at him. that happened 3 times i believe. Maybe twice. Hes fought alongside Cap enough times to know that as well.



Believe me, he has. Right now im feeling kinda lazy. I really dont wanna start posting scans. Just take my word for it.



In this situation, you should. How Caps experience is going to help against DD is something id like to hear. Neither of them will be seeing something new.



How is bulls**t? Did Cap ever train in ninjitsu? You cant assume he knows it or became a master at it. Just because he knows about it? Id love to see anything that implies Captain America knows more about Martial Arts than Daredevil does.



Its been stated that Cap trains in what? Trains caonstantly in acrobatics? Trains constantly in boxing and judo? Daredevil is also always training constantly.



Its not common sense youre using. Youre saying "Cap must be a master if so and so is a master, because hes known about it longer." Not mentioning that Cap has trained in ninjistsu. Has he? You dont know. You just make statements saying he does because he knew about it before they were born. Like i asked before, show me some type of proof that Cap knows more about MA than Daredevil and ill think about conceding. Till then......



Uhh yes it is mentioned that MD is one of the worlds most poweful telepaths. Her skills were on if not close to Strange level without the gem. What are you talking about?



I mentioned Bats because you make statements like Cap knows more than so and so, but nothing to prove that. Ninjistu for example, Bats actually trained in it. For years its commonly known. Its never even been stated that Cap has trained in certain arts.



I back up my points as much as you do my friend. Like i stated, show me some prof of anything and ill start to concede. Show me proof that Cap may know more about Martial Arts than Daredevil. Show me proof that Cap is a master of ninjitsu. Until then its only speculation on your part and thus is an opinion. Which brings us back to my statement in saying "opinions vary". boxing and judo along with jiu jitsu are the 3 most dominant forms of martial arts on the planet.... just so you know...

Originally posted by King KAM
boxing and judo along with jiu jitsu are the 3 most dominant forms of martial arts on the planet.... just so you know...
That does not make them the most usefull now does it?


mia tie in my opinion is a more usefull style then either judo or boxing.


Also capt knows moves from quite a few styles. I remeber the hand commenting on capt knowing some of there ancient moves.

Originally posted by capt it up
That does not make them the most usefull now does it?


mia tie in my opinion is a more usefull style then either judo or boxing.


Also capt knows moves from quite a few styles. I remeber the hand commenting on capt knowing some of there ancient moves. how does them being the most dominate not make them the most useful....do you even think before your write or does the bullshit just flow through your fingertips???

They way Brubaker has written Cap, Iron Fist and DD, I would say that Cap would solo both Matt and Danny. Iron Fist is, while skilled, cocky, hot headed and over confident... and Matt, even though he has been displayed has supperior to IF still has trouble with guys like Tomb Stone and Gladiator.

Originally posted by King KAM
how does them being the most dominate not make them the most useful....do you even think before your write or does the bullshit just flow through your fingertips???
Please were did I say anything close to being bull shit.

You said dominate which in the contact you said means most used.

That however does not make it more effective then other styles. It simply the most used style's in the world. Does that mean masters in those styles will beat masters in other styles? Hell no.

You watch ultimate fighting? The most used style in Ultimate fighting is mia tie ( MU Tie, can't really spell it right lol). Ultimate fighters are some of if not the greatest fighters in the world. Now if the most used style and known style to them is Mia tie then that would make it a more usefull style in MA combat.

I am sorry, but your sad attempt to attack me failed. You can not simply assume becuase those styles are the most used and taught in the world makes them the best.

so capt being a boxer, jude master means really nothing. Niether style is the best style in the world and is not even the most used style by the greatest of all mix martial artist.

By the way I put a mia tie fighter beating a boxer any day. Mai tie has all the strength boxing gives and almost none of the weaknesses.

I don't watch a lot of Mix MA, UFC/Pride fighting stuff but it doesn't seem to me like Mauy Thai (sp?) is that prevalent. It mostly seems like a lot of take downs and submission holds.

Originally posted by capt it up
Please were did I say anything close to being bull shit.

You said dominate which in the contact you said means most used.

That however does not make it more effective then other styles. It simply the most used style's in the world. Does that mean masters in those styles will beat masters in other styles? Hell no.

You watch ultimate fighting? The most used style in Ultimate fighting is mia tie ( MU Tie, can't really spell it right lol). Ultimate fighters are some of if not the greatest fighters in the world. Now if the most used style and known style to them is Mia tie then that would make it a more usefull style in MA combat.

I am sorry, but your sad attempt to attack me failed. You can not simply assume becuase those styles are the most used and taught in the world makes them the best.

so capt being a boxer, jude master means really nothing. Niether style is the best style in the world and is not even the most used style by the greatest of all mix martial artist.

By the way I put a mia tie fighter beating a boxer any day. Mai tie has all the strength boxing gives and almost none of the weaknesses. no in the context i used dominate meant the most effective styles on the planet, if i would of meant the most used i woulda said popular. Tae kwon do, and king fu are the most popular. dominant means powerful, ruling.

Boxing, Judo, and Jiu-jitsu are the most used in MMA not muay thai. There is one champ who is a muay thai fighter in the UFC. and dont start telling me about the UFC, MMA is my first love, i post on sherdog more than on KMC.

and muay thai is great and all, but cap isnt a straight boxer, he uses judo and jujitsu, JUDO and BOXING should more than make up for any advantage muay thai gives a man by use of clinch and kicks.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't watch a lot of Mix MA, UFC/Pride fighting stuff but it doesn't seem to me like Mauy Thai (sp?) is that prevalent. It mostly seems like a lot of take downs and submission holds. which happens to be judo and jujitsu....hmmmmm

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
They way Brubaker has written Cap, Iron Fist and DD, I would say that Cap would solo both Matt and Danny. Iron Fist is, while skilled, cocky, hot headed and over confident... and Matt, even though he has been displayed has supperior to IF still has trouble with guys like Tomb Stone and Gladiator. and brubaker is a hell of a writer. and yes ironfist is over confident and a hot head, and DD is a monster, but he writes cap like the perfect soldier....perfect.

Originally posted by King KAM
which happens to be judo and jujitsu....hmmmmm

Yup.

Originally posted by King KAM
and brubaker is a hell of a writer. and yes ironfist is over confident and a hot head, and DD is a monster, but he writes cap like the perfect soldier....perfect.

Yeah. He writes all three of these guys amazingly, almost exactly how I would... if I had any writing talents.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I don't watch a lot of Mix MA, UFC/Pride fighting stuff but it doesn't seem to me like Mauy Thai (sp?) is that prevalent. It mostly seems like a lot of take downs and submission holds.
actaully it the most used style in ultimate fighting...........and almost ever single combatant uses it in there fighters. Many of the kicks and punchs thrown come from muy tia. Not to mention the knees and stances.

Originally posted by capt it up
actaully it the most used style in ultimate fighting...........and almost ever single combatant uses it in there fighters. Many of the kicks and punchs thrown come from muy tia. Not to mention the knees and stances.


Basically he doesn't know how to fight.

Originally posted by King KAM
no in the context i used dominate meant the most effective styles on the planet, if i would of meant the most used i woulda said popular. Tae kwon do, and king fu are the most popular. dominant means powerful, ruling.

Boxing, Judo, and Jiu-jitsu are the most used in MMA not muay thai. There is one champ who is a muay thai fighter in the UFC. and dont start telling me about the UFC, MMA is my first love, i post on sherdog more than on KMC.

and muay thai is great and all, but cap isnt a straight boxer, he uses judo and jujitsu, JUDO and BOXING should more than make up for any advantage muay thai gives a man by use of clinch and kicks.
False muy tai is the most used style in ultimate fighting. Almost every fighter knows it and uses it. Judo techinque are used however ot to many of the fighters took judo actaully. There only really one judo fighter in ufc and it mention all the time when he fights.

tae kwon do sucks balls. It really only a point fighting type style now a days. It real flash but useless.

yes judo and boxing combind makes them as good as muy tia. But then again that straight up proves there not the most dominate becuase you have to combind two styles to make up for one.

also you forgot knees.

Originally posted by Caps Conscience
Basically he doesn't know how to fight.
who? what?

Originally posted by jrodslam


I give up. I still stand firm in saying DD and Fist take the majority. If you wanna continue this, find the largest Cap vs DD thread and bump it. This is slightly getting off topic. Have a good one.

Ok let me get this straight right.....the topic of this thread is Cap and BP vs DD and IF and talking about how Cap can beat DD is off topic.

Do you see how you like to NOT get the point of anything?

The 'which martial arts do they know' issue is mute. It isn't which art(s) or how many one knows, but how well he knows the art.

Originally posted by FOOM
but how well he knows the art.

You mean..."it isnt which or how many they know, but how well the use what they know".

But I know what you mean!

I agree with the last 2 posts.
I do think my statements so far have pretty much represented that.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok let me get this straight right.....the topic of this thread is Cap and BP vs DD and IF and talking about how Cap can beat DD is off topic.

Do you see how you like to NOT get the point of anything?

I said we were going off topic because of the back and forth between Cap and DD and their fighting skills/prowess. We've excluded the other 2 combatants as if they arent even part of this fight. If we want to purely discuss Daredevil vs Captain America, there are threads where we can do just that.

Originally posted by jrodslam


I said we were going off topic because of the back and forth between Cap and DD and their fighting skills/prowess. We've excluded the other 2 combatants as if they arent even part of this fight. If we want to purely discuss Daredevil vs Captain America, there are threads where we can do just that.

Thats still a load of bullocks. Cap and DD are still part of this fight therefore discussing them is not off topic, the reason why its taking so long is because we cant agree, but discussing DD vs Cap for 100 pages would still not be off topic. Not a difficult concept to understand.

When a topic is given for a thread sometimes people may not include everything that topic entails but as long as it is related its not off topic.

Team 1

Originally posted by jrodslam
I agree with the last 2 posts.
I do think my statements so far have pretty much represented that.



I dont think you have. This my point you dont get to be one of the earths greatest combatants by just mastering boxing and Judo. Its a real simple concept how is Cap going to do against people who have mastered Boxing and Judo and loads of other styles.

Knowing styles is not the be and end all of everything but obvoulsy it helps and something tells me that to be the earths greatest combatant you need to know more than boxing and judo. Boxing is punching and judo is grappling, what if he has to fight somebody who can punch, grapple and kick?

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2296/captainamerica386ocd05ji5.jpg

Its stated here that Cap trains constantly. This was said during combat practice, therefore to say "What is he training in." is a stupid question. Considering that Cap knew about ninjuitsu before DD was born and was training constantly before he was born something tells me he PROBABLY knows more about MA than DD does.

Originally posted by Alfheim

Its stated here that Cap trains constantly. This was said during combat practice, therefore to say "What is he training in." is a stupid question. Considering that Cap knew about ninjuitsu before DD was born and was training constantly before he was born something tells me he PROBABLY knows more about MA than DD does.


BP knows ninjuitsu also!

Originally posted by Apolloknight
BP knows ninjuitsu also!

Well hes on Cap side anyway.