Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Who wins?

Originally posted by Martian_mind


Sorry, is this obvious? I figure that since Cage is strong and pretty durable, plus a street fighter that he'd put up a good fight.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Sorry, is this obvious? I figure that since Cage is strong and pretty durable, plus a street fighter that he'd put up a good fight.

The guy's skin is impenatrable save for Adamantium.He's class 20 with fighting skills and reasonable speed.He's strong enough to take a hit from that sheild and then whats Cap gonna do?H2H him?

I know there will probably be scans of Cap punking Cage somewhere but i'm just saying what should happen.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
The guy's skin is impenatrable save for Adamantium.He's class 20 with fighting skills and reasonable speed.He's strong enough to take a hit from that sheild and then whats Cap gonna do?H2H him?

I know there will probably be scans of Cap punking Cage somewhere but i'm just saying what should happen.

oh lol. I thought you meant that Cap would own Cage or something with that smiley face.

Originally posted by masterbruce
oh lol. I thought you meant that Cap would own Cage or something with that smiley face.

He.h Lol

Captain America would beat Cage more times than not. I'm not sure if Cage could take a shot to the throat from Caps shield without going down for awhile.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
The guy's skin is impenatrable save for Adamantium.He's class 20 with fighting skills and reasonable speed.He's strong enough to take a hit from that sheild and then whats Cap gonna do?H2H him?

I know there will probably be scans of Cap punking Cage somewhere but i'm just saying what should happen.

what about pressure points?

captain america for the win.

he is way more agile and can probably run circles around cage

can cap's shield be used to cut strong objects?

Not as Strong as Cages skin....and Cap wouldn' score that throat shot,luke is too good for that.Nerve Shots?Maybe,but that might score him one win if luke isn't expecting it,i say luke 6-7/10

Cage needs one shot.

Cap needs MANY for the Nerve shots , not only that but they may not work due to his skin.

Originally posted by Martian_mind
Not as Strong as Cages skin....and Cap wouldn' score that throat shot,luke is too good for that.Nerve Shots?Maybe,but that might score him one win if luke isn't expecting it,i say luke 6-7/10

Originally posted by grey fox
Cage needs one shot.

Cap needs MANY for the Nerve shots , not only that but they may not work due to his skin.

I see, well in that case I say Cage 8/10.

Originally posted by masterbruce
Who wins?

Capt wins 9/10

hasnt the cap taken blows from the hulk?

luke cage is no wher near the hulk

Originally posted by Jax_Jax
hasnt the cap taken blows from the hulk?

luke cage is no wher near the hulk

That was Ultimate Captain America...he's Superhuman.If real Cap has taken blows from Hulk,It would have been Via his shield,Which is the only thing he could use offensively against Cage,Who would be able to wrestle it from Cap up close,or Just knock it away if it is thrown.Either way,Cap ends up poo creek without a paddle

I would say stalemate since Cap can't pull off enough force to take down Cage. Cage could get a hold of Cap to put him down.

Originally posted by golem370
I would say stalemate since Cap can't pull off enough force to take down Cage. Cage could get a hold of Cap to put him down.

Cap CANNOT beat Cage

Cage CAN potentially beat Cap

Ergo,

Cage wins 10/10

Cage break him in half. (unless Cap pulls out a secret ubernerve shot that only works on Cage)

But he can throw his shield faster than a ballistic missile...

Caps speed and agility >>>>>>>> Cages speed and agility. Cap's experience >>>>>>> Cages experience. Cap's fighting skills >>>>>>> Cages fighting skills

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
But he can throw his shield faster than a ballistic missile...
He can also dodge lasers at zero gravity.

Originally posted by golem370
Caps speed and agility >>>>>>>> Cages speed and agility. Cap's experience >>>>>>> Cages experience. Cap's fighting skills >>>>>>> Cages fighting skills

Cages ability to take everything Cap can dish out an more >>>>>>>> Cap's ability to take everything Cage can dish out an more

Originally posted by golem370
Caps speed and agility >>>>>>>> Cages speed and agility. Cap's experience >>>>>>> Cages experience. Cap's fighting skills >>>>>>> Cages fighting skills

I'm smarter, more experience, more manuverable and more skilled than six foot think steel wall but that doesn't mean I have a chance of beating it.

Originally posted by marvelprince
Cages ability to take everything Cap can dish out an more >>>>>>>> Cap's ability to take everything Cage can dish out an more I'm pretty sure a Mach 10 shield toss, while dodging all of Cage's subluminal punches under normal gravity would clinch it though.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm pretty sure a Mach 10 shield toss, while dodging all of Cage's subluminal punches under normal gravity would clinch it though.

Ah, I forgot about the ftl shield toss and the fact that he sees lasers in slow mo

Captain beat this guy who is as strong and almost as tough.

Armadillo- http://www.marveldatabase.com/Armadillo & http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/armadillocap.htm

Originally posted by golem370
Captain beat this guy who is as strong and almost as tough.

Armadillo- http://www.marveldatabase.com/Armadillo & http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix3/armadillocap.htm

But is says there that Cap beat him by trapping him in a net. He won by plot device not by outfighting Armadillo

Couldn't he do the same thing with Cage? Also Captain America beat US Agent who is a great fighter with superhuman speed agility and superhuman strength right?

Did I miss the part where they're fighting in a net factory and Luke Cage received a lobotomy before the fight?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Did I miss the part where they're fighting in a net factory?

Yes, and all jobber auras and plot devices are in effect. shifty

On which day of the year are they fighting?

Originally posted by juggernaut66666
On which day of the year are they fighting?

Huh? 4th of July.

cage is a good fighter. He not some normall heavy hitter he has skill's. he has been teamed with one of the top tier fighter in marvel for year's.

It would be pretty stupid for someone to be partners with one of the greatest fighters on the planet and not learn a few moves from him.

Originally posted by Accel
It would be pretty stupid for someone to be partners with one of the greatest fighters on the planet and not learn a few moves from him.

I agree.

I wouldnt be surprised if Cage actually caught the shiled if it were thrown at him then went on to whoop Caps ass. All in all i say Cage 6/10.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I agree.

I wouldnt be surprised if Cage actually caught the shiled if it were thrown at him then went on to whoop Caps ass. All in all i say Cage 6/10.

Exactly.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Did I miss the part where they're fighting in a net factory and Luke Cage received a lobotomy before the fight?



Originally posted by capt it up
cage is a good fighter. He not some normall heavy hitter he has skill's. he has been teamed with one of the top tier fighter in marvel for year's.

Seriously




Cage isint slow, nor is he a slouch in the h2h department. Super stiff skin and great durability. If cap throws his sheild and im VERY SURE cage can take a blow from it, cap just threw away his only chance of not getting broken in half by blocking a jab.


Cage, almost every time, the only exception being this fight takes.. place.. in a net factory....................

this can go either way. Cap 5.5/10

Cap has a huge advantage in having the shield and much better fighting skills, and perhaps higher agility as well.

All the rest of the advantages go to Cage - so the result would be at the discretion of whoever is writing imho.

Originally posted by boriquaking55
this can go either way. Cap 5.5/10

Cap has a huge advantage in having the shield and much better fighting skills, and perhaps higher agility as well.

All the rest of the advantages go to Cage - so the result would be at the discretion of whoever is writing imho.

I agree, problem being

Cap cant really put cage down

and on the other hand cage can much easier put cap down

any blocking on caps behalf that isint shield related is going to result in cap losing 90% of his bone density


and unless cap has 60 ton hands, he can forget pressure points

For this choosing Cap, how will Cap take down Luke?

Steve Rogers beats the hell out of Luke Cage. Unless its tyrese.

Luke crushes Cap. 10/10

Bump for the biggest Cap fanboy on the boards.

There you go.

Originally posted by Soljer
Captain America can beat Elektra. He can hold his own with Cage (though it would be a draw, or in cage's favor).



Thats from the Cap vs Luke Cage and Elecktra thread.

Originally posted by Alfheim
There you go.



Thats from the Cap vs Luke Cage and Elecktra thread.

Yes? And?

He could last for a good while against Cage. What's your point?

Originally posted by Soljer
Yes? And?


He could last for a good while against Cage. What's your point?

Whats a draw? 5/10.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Whats a draw? 5/10.

No...it's Cage getting outsped and outskilled, while Cap can't do any real damage to Cage.

It's more like 0/10 to each.

Originally posted by Soljer
No...it's Cage getting outsped and outskilled, while Cap can't do any real damage to Cage.

It's more like 0/10 to each.

Well ok fine. At anay rate its not Like Luke is anymore durable than Namor and Cap can hurt Namor.

Furthermore a dying Cap in a weaker body has numbed the whole body of Giant man with one finger....and you're like duhhh how Cap gonna beat Cage?

giant man durability <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Lukes

Cap 6/10

Cap can throw his shield all day, it would only annoy Cage. Once Cage gets close and manages to grab Cap, it's all over.

Seriously, without prep or PIS or jobber aura, Captain America has almost no chance. Holding his own for a while ? Yes, sure. Beating Cage, hurting Cage ? No, not a chance.

Hurt Hulk a bit....yes.

Hurt Ironman.....yes.

Hurt a weak Hyde....yes.

Hurt a Powered up Hyde.....yes.

Hurt a weaker version of Onslaught.....yes.


Uh yeah he's hurting Cage.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Hurt Hulk a bit....yes.

Hurt Ironman.....yes.

Hurt a weak Hyde....yes.

Hurt a Powered up Hyde.....yes.

Hurt a weaker version of Onslaught.....yes.


Uh yeah he's hurting Cage.

Yeah, when using his shield Captain America hits like a tank, I definitely agree. Cap also took a punch from Thanos during the Infinity Gauntlet crossover, well using his shield to block. He's also made short work of those capekillers.

Cap 6/10

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Hurt Hulk a bit....yes.

Hurt Ironman.....yes.

Hurt a weak Hyde....yes.

Hurt a Powered up Hyde.....yes.

Hurt a weaker version of Onslaught.....yes.


Uh yeah he's hurting Cage.

I second this. Why cant people understand that Cap would be able to hurt Cage eventually?

Cap would probably not be able to use pressure points on Cage. Not in the traditional sense. He could never punch or strike with enough force to penetrate through the skin to the nerve. Daredevil got pantsed by Tombstone in their last fight because he was trying the same thing and nearly broke his fingers.

But Cap could use his shield's edge and hit his vulnerable spots. Behind the knee, into the solar plexus, his Adam's apple. You may not do a lot of internal damage, but he'd be able to dance around and hang with him just fine. I don't think anybody would argue that Cap is much faster than Cage. And considering Cap doesn't succumb to fatigue, I don't see how the length of a fight would ever create an advantage for Cage. Indeed, Cage would get tired before Cap.

Besides, if Cap had to, he would go for Cage's eyes or knock his teeth into the back of his throat. Indeed, a full strength shield strike to Cage's skull would probably rattle his brain. Unbreakable skin? Yes. Durability enhanced brain? No. He can be hurt internally, if not externally. it happened in Fury's 'Secret War.' Skin's unscratched, but extensive internal damage from the concussion of an explosion.

Cap 7/10. Cap has fought opponents like this before. Nothing new or surprising. I could see Cage being crafty in a street type of way and surprise Cap, but Cage dominating Cap? In your furthest dreams.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Hurt Hulk a bit....yes.

Hurt Ironman.....yes.

Hurt a weak Hyde....yes.

Hurt a Powered up Hyde.....yes.

Hurt a weaker version of Onslaught.....yes.


Uh yeah he's hurting Cage.

Do you think that Cap can KO Cage?

Originally posted by llagrok
Yeah, when using his shield Captain America hits like a tank, I definitely agree. Cap also took a punch from Thanos during the Infinity Gauntlet crossover, well using his shield to block. He's also made short work of those capekillers.

Cap 6/10

Right so you think that Cap can KO Cage.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Cap would probably not be able to use pressure points on Cage. Not in the traditional sense. He could never punch or strike with enough force to penetrate through the skin to the nerve. Daredevil got pantsed by Tombstone in their last fight because he was trying the same thing and nearly broke his fingers.

But Cap could use his shield's edge and hit his vulnerable spots. Behind the knee, into the solar plexus, his Adam's apple. You may not do a lot of internal damage, but he'd be able to dance around and hang with him just fine. I don't think anybody would argue that Cap is much faster than Cage. And considering Cap doesn't succumb to fatigue, I don't see how the length of a fight would ever create an advantage for Cage. Indeed, Cage would get tired before Cap.

Besides, if Cap had to, he would go for Cage's eyes or knock his teeth into the back of his throat. Indeed, a full strength shield strike to Cage's skull would probably rattle his brain. Unbreakable skin? Yes. Durability enhanced brain? No. He can be hurt internally, if not externally. it happened in Fury's 'Secret War.' Skin's unscratched, but extensive internal damage from the concussion of an explosion.

Cap 7/10. Cap has fought opponents like this before. Nothing new or surprising. I could see Cage being crafty in a street type of way and surprise Cap, but Cage dominating Cap? In your furthest dreams.


Right so you think that Cap can KO Cage. IF you do that makes you all fanboys because according Soljer Cap can KO people in the class 80 range but cnat KO Luke Cage, therefore if you think that Cap can beat Luke Cage you are a raving fanboy.

Shield Toss downs overhead Cables which Luke Parries with a kick from his rubber soled sneakers. Cap gets up close and personal with 20 000 volts

Never said they were fanboys, Alfheim.

Just you. doped.

Originally posted by Soljer
Never said they were fanboys, Alfheim.

Just you. doped.

Yeah but one of the reasons why you think im a fanboy is because I think Cap can KO Cage. You dont think he can.

Out of curiosity what of the Thing? Colossus? Do you really think he has a snowball's chance on a clear Summer's day in Hell of hurting them? Others in that realm of strength and durability? Diamond-form Emma Frost, who survived the Genosha extinction event?

I mean he hurt the Hulk and Namor... despite their numerous other showings of durability. 313

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Out of curiosity what of the Thing? Colossus? Do you really think he has a snowball's chance on a clear Summer's day in Hell of hurting them? Others in that realm of strength and durability?

I mean he hurt the Hulk and Namor... despite their numerous other showings of durability. 313

X Like you said Cap has hurt Namor. Is Namor more durable than the Thing and Collosus? Cap has also knocked out Rhino who is class 80.

I have a bad feeling about this......

Originally posted by Alfheim
X Like you said Cap has hurt Namor. That sentence had a dependent clause. doped

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That sentence had a dependent clause. doped

Well Cap has laid Namor flat out on his back twice and KOed Rhino. So is the Thing more durable than Namor?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well Cap has laid Namor flat out on his back twice

haaahaaa

musta happened between issues

Originally posted by don't shiv
haaahaaa

musta happened between issues

and Koed him underwater but Namor was mindcontrolled.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I mean he hurt the Hulk and Namor... despite their numerous other showings of durability. 313 Originally posted by Alfheim
X Like you said Cap has hurt Namor. Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That sentence had a dependent clause. doped Originally posted by Alfheim
Well Cap has laid Namor flat out on his back twice and KOed Rhino. So is the Thing more durable than Namor? I'm not going to explain the meaning of the term "dependent clause" to you.

Yes I do. Not as a one shot of course, it would have to be many repeated strikes and with the aid of his trusty shield.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm not going to explain the meaning of the term "dependent clause" to you.

Im not talking about the dependent clause anymore. You asked me wether Cap can hurt Thing. Cap has hurt Namor on numerous ocassions therefore Cap can hurt The Thing. There you go.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Im not talking about the dependent clause anymore. You asked me wether Cap can hurt Thing. Cap has hurt Namor on numerous ocassions therefore Cap can hurt The Thing. There you go.

Dep - end - ent Clause.

What about the clause. X asked me wether Cap can hurt the Thing amongst others.


Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Out of curiosity what of the Thing? Colossus? Do you really think he has a snowball's chance on a clear Summer's day in Hell of hurting them?


When she says he. I assume she means Captain America.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

I mean he hurt the Hulk and Namor...

I dont think Cap can really hurt the Hulk, but as I explained he has laid Namor flat on his back.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

despite their numerous other showings of durability. 313

As for the above statement its seems he is implying that it shouldnt happen because they have shown in his opinion to be too durable to get hurt by Cap.

At any rate the point of the thread is can Cap beat Luke Cage. If Cap can KO people in the class 80 range he can KO Luke Cage.

Originally posted by Alfheim
As for the above statement its seems he is implying that it shouldnt happen because they have shown in his opinion to be too durable to get hurt by Cap. Congratulations. Have a cookie.
Random feats I found in a quick perusal of DC's thread.
Mini-nuke to the face: http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6527/namorfeat295yp.gif
Unaided in space: http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9325/namorfeat187nk.gif
Mjolnir to head: http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2039/namorfeat367wt.gif
Shield to head: http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/6016/invadersfight35rr.jpg
Atmospheric re-entry: http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/7945/namorfeat889cy.gif

Durability in fights with Thor. Fights with Hulk. Fights with Attuma. And so on.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Congratulations. Have a cookie.


Yeah so I understood what you said from the very begining. So what was all that about the dependent clause.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Random feats I found in a quick perusal of DC's thread.
Mini-nuke to the face: http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/6527/namorfeat295yp.gif
Unaided in space: http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9325/namorfeat187nk.gif
Mjolnir to head: http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2039/namorfeat367wt.gif
Shield to head: http://img306.imageshack.us/img306/6016/invadersfight35rr.jpg
Atmospheric re-entry: http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/7945/namorfeat889cy.gif

Durability in fights with Thor. Fights with Hulk. Fights with Attuma. And so on.

Yeah and Mantis knocked out Thor...so? I know what you're going to say.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah so I understood what you said from the very begining. So what was all that about the dependent clause.That's certainly not the impression you gave. doped
Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah and Mantis knocked out Thor...so? I know what you're going to say. Mantis, the Celestial Madonna, knocked out Thor. Once. From behind iirc. Which can definitely be construed by Thor fans as out of character for him considering the things he's done.
She did the same thing to Vision, who has no nerves as far as I know.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
That's certainly not the impression you gave. doped


*sigh* Nevermind, catch you later.

Cage wins

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Mantis, the Celestial Madonna, knocked out Thor. Once. From behind iirc. Which can definitely be construed by Thor fans as out of character for him considering the things he's done.

*sigh* Mantis's bio states that she can knockout beings as powerful as Thor so its not just Thor its other beings as powerful as him. Both the bio and the comics back each other up.

The reason why im giving Mantis as an example is because Mantis still has only peak human strength and Thor still has superhumanly durable nerves. Logically she should not be able to do it. Cap does what she does on a lesser scale. I dont think Cap can KO Thor but I think he is capable of Koing Namor.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

She did the same thing to Vision, who has no nerves as far as I know.

Well I guess its PIS.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Uh yeah he's hurting Cage.
No he's not. Maybe a little bit, okay. That's all I want to give you.

Cage however tears CA apart.

You need to add there IMO.

Originally posted by Kid Kurdy
No he's not. Maybe a little bit, okay. That's all I want to give you.

Cage however tears CA apart.

How is that going to happen when Cap has beaten people tougher than Cage?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Right so you think that Cap can KO Cage. IF you do that makes you all fanboys because according Soljer Cap can KO people in the class 80 range but cnat KO Luke Cage, therefore if you think that Cap can beat Luke Cage you are a raving fanboy. Forget about what Soljer says about Cap. King KAM and I have kicked him out of the Cap fan club for being unpatriotic.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Out of curiosity what of the Thing? Colossus? Do you really think he has a snowball's chance on a clear Summer's day in Hell of hurting them? Others in that realm of strength and durability? Diamond-form Emma Frost, who survived the Genosha extinction event?

I mean he hurt the Hulk and Namor... despite their numerous other showings of durability. 313 Personally, I do think he has a snowball's chance in hell of hurting both Thing and Colossus. Do a search on those exact matchups, as I commented in both of those threads with specific scenarios as to how Cap could hurt them in the same manner I did here. There's always a way. You think just a little bit and you'll usually find it.

She KO'ed Vision when?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Forget about what Soljer says about Cap. King KAM and I have kicked him out of the Cap fan club for being unpatriotic.
Personally, I do think he has a snowball's chance in hell of hurting both Thing and Colossus. Do a search on those exact matchups, as I commented in both of those threads with specific scenarios as to how Cap could hurt them in the same manner I did here. There's always a way. You think just a little bit and you'll usually find it.

Yeah and on top of that he uses very inconsistent arguments, for example he'll talk about how Cap can knock out people in the class 80 range but cant KO Luke Cage ....at least be consistent.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Do a search on those exact matchups, as I commented in both of those threads with specific scenarios as to how Cap could hurt them in the same manner I did here. There's always a way. You think just a little bit and you'll usually find it.

You're wasting your time Xmarks didnt come to debate but to argue.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah and on top of that he uses very inconsistent arguments, for example he'll talk about how Cap can knock out people in the class 80 range but cant KO Luke Cage ....at least be consistent.

You're wasting your time Xmarks didnt come to debate but to argue. I was in the Colossus vs Captain America thread a year before you even joined the forum. OneDumbG's comments in the Colossus thread amounted to the exact same thing as in this thread, iirc "He'll find a way." "He can cut his ear." He can dent his eye." "He'll ride the thunderclap." Despite evidence to the contrary. Which meant jack to me then and still means jack to me. But that's still more than most of the crap you post. "Debating" with you is often akin to having one's eyes pulled out, being forced to eat them and having nitric acid poured into the sockets while being repeatedly stabbed with a rusty machete.

Get the **** over yourself, please. Kkthxbi.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I was in the Colossus vs Captain America thread a year before you even joined the forum. OneDumbG's comments in the Colossus thread amounted to the exact same thing as in this thread, iirc "He'll find a way." "He can cut his ear." He can dent his eye." "He'll ride the thunderclap." Despite evidence to the contrary. Which meant jack to me then and still means jack to me. But that's still more than most of the crap you post.

Get the **** over yourself, please. Kkthxbi.

Alfheim's man-crush showing again?

I loves it when you be pwning those fanboys, X.

Ha,he said kkthxbi.

I'd have to go with Luke Cage here. But Cap. has the jobber aura thing that works wonders for him.

Vibranium is one of the toughest metals on earth, yes? If Cap slams his shield into Cage's teeth, he's definitely going to feel. Like it was stated before, despite many people refusing to realize it, Cap has hurt Namor and The Hulk.

Yes, Captain America can defeat Luke
Yes, Cage can defeat Cap

Now that we've gotten that straightened out, I think Cap's agility and speed will be too much for Luke to handle. Unless he's able to restrain Cap or hold him down.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I was in the Colossus vs Captain America thread a year before you even joined the forum. OneDumbG's comments in the Colossus thread amounted to the exact same thing as in this thread, iirc "He'll find a way." "He can cut his ear." He can dent his eye." "He'll ride the thunderclap." Despite evidence to the contrary. Which meant jack to me then and still means jack to me. But that's still more than most of the crap you post. "Debating" with you is often akin to having one's eyes pulled out, being forced to eat them and having nitric acid poured into the sockets while being repeatedly stabbed with a rusty machete.

Get the **** over yourself, please. Kkthxbi. What evidence to the contrary are you referring to? 616-Colossus' form has been pierced and damaged before. Indeed, he's been shredded before. .45 caliber bullet resistant eyes? Wrecking Crew has that same durability over their body. It's not all that special. Read up 'Secret Wars' again where they make specific reference to it and Hawkeye owns them. Yes, it might be hard, but please read a comic. Cap's shield blows have torn right through Iron Man's armor among other things. He's shredded helicopters with shield tosses. There's so much evidence that Cap's shield does more damage than a .45 caliber bullet that your reliance on such a fact was purely asinine. Do you want me to show you scans of Cap riding shockwaves with his shield and being unharmed? Indeed, shockwaves much more potent than a measly thunderclap? In the end, I ended up ignoring your participation in the whole thing, as I was much more interested in Metalmanx's comments. But if you want me to make you look like an utter fool with scans, then I will. But we both know I could, so if you let this post ride as is, I won't embarass you.

And now here we are with this thread. Are you stating that Cage's eyes are invulnerable or Thing's eyes are invulnerable? Apparently so. So I guess you must be more of an idiot. Want to step back frrom your position a bit? Yeah, you should. I'm looking at obvious weakpoints. Any strategist would. If you think Cap is going to punch him in the chest, then you're a fool. You want me to flood you with scans of him analyzing an opponent whose durability and power outclasses him and him going for the weak points? It's called thinking. You should try it sometime. Then again you could continue to be ignorant and make par for the course.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I was in the Colossus vs Captain America thread a year before you even joined the forum. OneDumbG's comments in the Colossus thread amounted to the exact same thing as in this thread, iirc "He'll find a way." "He can cut his ear." He can dent his eye." "He'll ride the thunderclap." Despite evidence to the contrary.

Is Collosus more durable than Namor? Cap has hurt Namor on numerous ocassions that evidence is crap?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Which meant jack to me then and still means jack to me. But that's still more than most of the crap you post.

It means jack to you because as usual you are not interested in what the other party has to say.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

"Debating" with you is often akin to having one's eyes pulled out, being forced to eat them and having nitric acid poured into the sockets while being repeatedly stabbed with a rusty machete.

Get the **** over yourself, please. Kkthxbi.

Bullocks you have already started your bullshit already with you're depndent clause bullshit. You even wanted to debate wether Mantis has the ability to KO Thor despite the fact that she has done it in comics and it says in her bio. You have even said in one of your posts that Beast is much more agile than Cap , which clearly shows you dont know what the **** you are talking about its just pure Cap hate.

Your an argumentative prick and you cant help being an ***hole. Dont like my posts dont relpy to them. Feel free to make some bullshit excuse like you dont understand what im saying or I dont understand what your saying. It would help if you spent less time on getting on my case and had a look at yourself.

Your the one who has said that its not about being peak human or amped but its wether its somebody powerset. It is mantis's powerset to KO Thor but now you are contradicting yourself because you want to be an ***hole.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

These things aren't analagous. And it isn't about what people can do in the real world. It's about what characters can do given their powersets in the comic book world.

Dr Strange is the Sorceror Supreme. Doom is the genius ruler of Latveria. And Iron Man is a futurist industrialist genius with too much time on his hands.





http://www.marvel.com/universe/Mantis

Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor.

Right so its not Mantis's powerset to KO Thor? Why the **** are you arguing.....er you're a arumentative *****

I'm just saying shit to **** with Alfheim for the most part. Messing with fanboys is what I do....

Yeah, I know, Soljer. I'm just trying to caution him against getting riled up with your comments. But that still doesn't get you back inside the Cap fan-club.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yeah, I know, Soljer. I'm just trying to caution him against getting riled up with your comments. But that still doesn't get you back inside the Cap fan-club.

Awww. .

But look at my contributions to the respect thread!

Damnit...

What it all boils down to, is that cage literally cant land a hit on the cap, Cap simply dodges and parries all of cages punches until he wears him down.

Cap can render pressure points and damage to cage with the shield.

Cap wins, hell even the ex commander of sheild Maria Hill agrees
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/5567/hillbap8.jpg

wow...that's a diss. DD is someone who can give Cap a run for his money.

Originally posted by masterbruce
wow...that's a diss. DD is someone who can give Cap a run for his money. In some peoples eyes, but.... those eyes arent very logical ones, so ill allow you to use mine...


























CAP PWNS THEM BOTH BIATCHES!!!!

Originally posted by King KAM
In some peoples eyes, but.... those eyes arent very logical ones, so ill allow you to use mine...

CAP PWNS THEM BOTH BIATCHES!!!!

You're obviously a Cap fanboy, so I'll excuse your delusions. DD can get at least 3/10 against Cap.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What evidence to the contrary are you referring to? 616-Colossus' form has been pierced and damaged before. Indeed, he's been shredded before. .45 caliber bullet resistant eyes? Wrecking Crew has that same durability over their body. It's not all that special. Read up 'Secret Wars' again where they make specific reference to it and Hawkeye owns them. Yes, it might be hard, but please read a comic. Cap's shield blows have torn right through Iron Man's armor among other things. He's shredded helicopters with shield tosses. There's so much evidence that Cap's shield does more damage than a .45 caliber bullet that your reliance on such a fact was purely asinine. Do you want me to show you scans of Cap riding shockwaves with his shield and being unharmed? Indeed, shockwaves much more potent than a measly thunderclap? In the end, I ended up ignoring your participation in the whole thing, as I was much more interested in Metalmanx's comments. But if you want me to make you look like an utter fool with scans, then I will. But we both know I could, so if you let this post ride as is, I won't embarass you.

And now here we are with this thread. Are you stating that Cage's eyes are invulnerable or Thing's eyes are invulnerable? Apparently so. So I guess you must be more of an idiot. Want to step back frrom your position a bit? Yeah, you should. I'm looking at obvious weakpoints. Any strategist would. If you think Cap is going to punch him in the chest, then you're a fool. You want me to flood you with scans of him analyzing an opponent whose durability and power outclasses him and him going for the weak points? It's called thinking. You should try it sometime. Then again you could continue to be ignorant and make par for the course. What evidence to the contrary? Perhaps the sum of Colossus durability feats throughout his history. Hawkeye hurt members of the Wrecking Crew, therefore Captain America can hurt Colossus? With regard to Colossus being pierced I'm assuming you're referring to Riptide - which would mean you're unaware that in a later comic Riptide tried the same thing and the shurikens just bounced off. Wisdom's hot knives the temperature of the surface of the sun? Let me know when Captain America gains an acid edged shield the temperature of the sun and can throw it at the speed of a tornado.

I didn't bring up the bullet, that was Creshosk, who also posted the scan of Colossus and Juggernaut fighting. The thread started with you saying that Captain America would trip up Colossus and dent his neck repeatedly in order to change him back to human form. Then you started with "He'll find a way" based on environment when no environment was specified. Then partially accepted that Captain America couldn't hurt Colossus, or at least that nobody besides you thought so, but that Colossus couldn't hurt Captain America - at which point it was pointed out that Colossus could simply outlast Captain America. Then posted a series of scans (which I'm assuming you simply intend to post again, ooh scary) and went back to saying he could hurt him, he'd give him a stigmatism and cut his ear. All the while Colossus just stands there like his namesake I suppose. I started ignoring your contribution to the thread when you appeared to take things like Captain America throwing his shield to catch up with a ballistic missile seriously.

With regard to this thread, I've only largely been referring to whether Captain America can do real damage to Luke Cage with H2H through his diamond-hard skin in response to Alfheim constantly harping on about Captain America vs the mindcontrolled Namor. Take that as a concession if you will, but take your strawman statements back with it. My post wasn't actually meant as a slight on you, although Alfheim pissed me off so it probably came out that way, so have fun overreacting and embarrass me all you want, I have marking to do. You win the interwebz!

Originally posted by Alfheim
Bullocks you have already started your bullshit already with you're depndent clause bullshit. You even wanted to debate wether Mantis has the ability to KO Thor despite the fact that she has done it in comics and it says in her bio. You have even said in one of your posts that Beast is much more agile than Cap , which clearly shows you dont know what the **** you are talking about its just pure Cap hate.

Your an argumentative prick and you cant help being an ***hole. Dont like my posts dont relpy to them. Feel free to make some bullshit excuse like you dont understand what im saying or I dont understand what your saying. It would help if you spent less time on getting on my case and had a look at yourself.

Your the one who has said that its not about being peak human or amped but its wether its somebody powerset. It is mantis's powerset to KO Thor but now you are contradicting yourself because you want to be an ***hole.

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Mantis

Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor.

Right so its not Mantis's powerset to KO Thor? Why the **** are you arguing.....er you're a arumentative ***** If you post about me, I'll reply in kind. Everyone on here, everyone, knows you have a "huge mancrush," as V so eloquently puts it, on Captain America. And several people besides me have encountered your ineptitude in understanding what they're trying to convey. You were notably silent in the Captain America vs Thor H2H thread. Have his pressure points moved since then?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
What evidence to the contrary? Perhaps the sum of Colossus durability feats throughout his history. Hawkeye hurt members of the Wrecking Crew, therefore Captain America can hurt Colossus? With regard to Colossus being pierced I'm assuming you're referring to Riptide - which would mean you're unaware that in a later comic Riptide tried the same thing and the shurikens just bounced off. Wisdom's hot knives the temperature of the surface of the sun? Let me know when Captain America gains an acid edged shield the temperature of the sun and can throw it at the speed of a tornado.All entirely off-topic since Cap is not trying to stab him or gut him in the chest. He'd go for his eyes which are of considerably less durability then his damn chest. Unless you are actually stupid enough that you think his eyeball is as durable as his chest.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I didn't bring up the bullet, that was Creshosk, who also posted the scan of Colossus and Juggernaut fighting. The thread started with you saying that Captain America would trip up Colossus and dent his neck repeatedly in order to change him back to human form. Then you started with "He'll find a way" based on environment when no environment was specified. Then partially accepted that Captain America couldn't hurt Colossus, or at least that nobody besides you thought so, but that Colossus couldn't hurt Captain America - at which point it was pointed out that Colossus could simply outlast Captain America. Then posted a series of scans (which I'm assuming you simply intend to post again, ooh scary) and went back to saying he could hurt him, he'd give him a stigmatism and cut his ear. All the while Colossus just stands there like his namesake I suppose. I started ignoring your contribution to the thread when you appeared to take things like Captain America throwing his shield to catch up with a ballistic missile seriously.You idiots argued among other things: 1) Cap has never damaged anything like steel before; 2) Cap could never throw it fast enough to attain the kind of speed necessary to damage Colossus' eyes; and 3) Colossus' eyes are so small, he'd never hit them or Cap would miss.

1) I showed you all scans of him shredding steel; 2) I also showed you scans of how fast he could throw the shield, probably 100+ mph; and 3) I then also showed you scans of how precise he was with the shield. So precise that he could hit a lighter switch with a rebound shot, without looking and without moving the lighter.

That shut most of you up. Even after resolving all your nitpicking you still refused to see how Cap could damage Colossus, when I just gave you a completely plausible scenario within Cap's strength and skill.

Then some of you said Colossus could flex his eye out to correct the damage and instantly heal when he switched back to human. Of course, I pointed out that Colossus cannot heal that damage by switching back. Indeed, any damage inflicted on him in metal form stays when he reverts to human form.

The Hawkeye scene I just referred to in 'Secret Wars' is a scene where one of the Wrecking Crew is threatening Hawkeye and scoffs at his attempt to hurt him with normal arrows. He specifically states he's shrugged off .45 calibur bullets and Hawkeye said his normal arrows do a lot more damage then .45 calibur bullets. He doesn't believe Hawkeye and advances until Hawkeye is forced to shoot him and it does indeed pierce his body. That scene was merely to help illustrate that being able to resist .45 caliber bullets isn't well beyond Cap's capacity to damage. So what point did you want to make by resurfacing my argument that completely resolved any of your attacks?
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
With regard to this thread, I've only largely been referring to whether Captain America can do real damage to Luke Cage with H2H through his diamond-hard skin in response to Alfheim constantly harping on about Captain America vs the mindcontrolled Namor. Take that as a concession if you will, but take your strawman statements back with it. My post wasn't actually meant as a slight on you, although Alfheim pissed me off so it probably came out that way, so have fun overreacting and embarrass me all you want, I have marking to do. You win the interwebz! I win this debate since you obviously recognize that Cap could blind Cage and therefore would indeed hurt him. The fact that you need or want to limit Cap to H2H has nothing to do with this fight since the fight's stipulations don't limit Cap. And the fact that everyone here agrees that Cap could hurt Cage with such simple tactics make all your H2H arguments moot and reduces them to "strawman statements." In other words, nobody gives a crap since it doesn't change the fact that Cap can hurt Cage. "Finding a way," does not need involve PIS jobber auras. In this case, all I needed to do was point out a very obvious vulnerability that isn't protected by his skin. Well... apparently not so obvious to you. Next time you lose, do it a little bit more gracefully.

I have some more time now that I finished my marking. Originally posted by OneDumbG0
All entirely off-topic since Cap is not trying to stab him or gut him in the chest. He'd go for his eyes which are of considerably less durability then his damn chest. Unless you are actually stupid enough that you think his eyeball is as durable as his chest.Those were the low showings, with chemical and heat variables, of Colossus durability upon which you based that Captain America can blind him with physical force. Whether or not Colossus' eyes are less durable than his body isn't proven nor disproven, but logically they would be since an ordinary human's eyes are less durable than muscle. That being said Colossus has been shown to basically turn into solid organic "steel" when Magneto healed him, and his eyes have withstood similar things to his body during explosions, being superheated by Pyro, and Pete Wisdom's knives the temperature of the sun's surface. And there's no conclusiveness as to whether damaging Colossus' eyes metal corneas would even affect his vision.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You idiots argued among other things: 1) Cap has never damaged anything like steel before; 2) Cap could never throw it fast enough to attain the kind of speed necessary to damage Colossus' eyes; and 3) Colossus' eyes are so small, he'd never hit them or Cap would miss.No one ever said (1).Originally posted by OneDumbG0
1) I showed you all scans of him shredding steel; 2) I also showed you scans of how fast he could throw the shield, probably 100+ mph; and 3) I then also showed you scans of how precise he was with the shield. So precise that he could hit a lighter switch with a rebound shot, without looking and without moving the lighter.Colossus isn't actually steel. And he isn't actually his namesake. He has the ability to move.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That shut most of you up. Even after resolving all your nitpicking you still refused to see how Cap could damage Colossus, when I just gave you a completely plausible scenario within Cap's strength and skill.Maybe people just got bored of you. The only person I recall giving Captain America the win under your (the word is) astigmatism scenario, was you. Your premise has that he manages to damage the cornea of both eyes, therefore having had his vision impaired Colossus gives up. That scenario might garner a small few out of ten. The majority or a stalemate based on that? There's a difference between plausible and probable.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Then some of you said Colossus could flex his eye out to correct the damage and instantly heal when he switched back to human. Of course, I pointed out that Colossus cannot heal that damage by switching back. Indeed, any damage inflicted on him in metal form stays when he reverts to human form.N/A. If you want to continue about Colossus vs Captain America feel free in that thread. I'll even bump it for shits ang giggles.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The Hawkeye scene I just referred to in 'Secret Wars' is a scene where one of the Wrecking Crew is threatening Hawkeye and scoffs at his attempt to hurt him with normal arrows. He specifically states he's shrugged off .45 calibur bullets and Hawkeye said his normal arrows do a lot more damage then .45 calibur bullets. He doesn't believe Hawkeye and advances until Hawkeye is forced to shoot him and it does indeed pierce his body. That scene was merely to help illustrate that being able to resist .45 caliber bullets isn't well beyond Cap's capacity to damage. So what point did you want to make by resurfacing my argument that completely resolved any of your attacks?Let me guess you think Hawkeye beats Colossus too?Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I win this debate since you obviously recognize that Cap could blind Cage and therefore would indeed hurt him. The fact that you need or want to limit Cap to H2H has nothing to do with this fight since the fight's stipulations don't limit Cap. And the fact that everyone here agrees that Cap could hurt Cage with such simple tactics make all your H2H arguments moot and reduces them to "strawman statements." In other words, nobody gives a crap since it doesn't change the fact that Cap can hurt Cage. "Finding a way," does not need involve PIS jobber auras. In this case, all I needed to do was point out a very obvious vulnerability that isn't protected by his skin. Well... apparently not so obvious to you. Next time you lose, do it a little bit more gracefully. Congratulations, your medal is in the mail. I don't want or need to limit this fight. I was clarifying the context of my earlier post to Alfheim, who was implying with his examples through H2H means alone Captain America can harm the Colossus, Thing, and so on, pay attention. Regardless of whether I win or lose, I do it with more class than you. doped

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
If you post about me, I'll reply in kind. Everyone on here, everyone, knows you have a "huge mancrush," as V so eloquently puts it, on Captain America. And several people besides me have encountered your ineptitude in understanding what they're trying to convey.

Just because more people think something doesnt mean its correct. Sorry but alot of people on this forum are just ***holes. Thats why some of the best debators have left this forum and gone to C-masters forum....they cant stand the crap


Originally posted by xmarksthespot

You were notably silent in the Captain America vs Thor H2H thread. Have his pressure points moved since then?

Well this just goes to show you dont know what the hell you're talking about....you dont even understand your own points anymore. You said that a characters powerset enables that person to do what they do.

It doesnt matter what damage that Thor has taken, its Mantis's powerset to KO Thor....read it an weep! The only reason why you're complaining about it is because you're argumentative. Cap is not as good as Mantis but she proves the principle that even if you have peak human strength you can hurt people with vast durability.

I didnt post in the Cap vs Thor thread because its you starting your crap again.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Just because more people think something doesnt mean its correct. Sorry but alot of people on this forum are just ***holes. Thats why some of the best debators have left this forum and gone to C-masters forum....they cant stand the crap

Originally posted by Alfheim
Just because more people think something doesnt mean its correct. Sorry but alot of people on this forum are just ***holes. Thats why some of the best debators have left this forum and gone to C-masters forum....they cant stand the crap

Well this just goes to show you dont know what the hell you're talking about....you dont even understand your own points anymore. You said that a characters powerset enables that person to do what they do.

It doesnt matter what damage that Thor has taken, its Mantis's powerset to KO Thor....read it an weep! The only reason why you're complaining about it is because you're argumentative. Cap is not as good as Mantis but she proves the principle that even if you have peak human strength you can hurt people with vast durability.

I didnt post in the Cap vs Thor thread because its you starting your crap again. Ha. And I suppose you count yourself amongst the best of them.

Here's the section you quoted. Underlined is the powerset, italicized is a feat she's performed.
"Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor."

Power. Feat. Power. Feat.

Taking into account Thor's durability feats, a normal strength female humanoid, no matter how skilled wouldn't generate the pressure needed to even make the slightest impression on him. Let alone knock him out.

Captain America knows pressure points. Thor apparently has them, and normal strength humanoids can knock him out with them. So in a H2H fight with Thor, all else but strength and durability granted him, Cap wins 10/10 right? Have Thor's pressure points moved around since the Mantis incident? Have Vision's non-existent pressure points? Cap vs Vision H2H obviously Cap wins 10/10.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Ha. And I suppose you count yourself amongst the best of them.

Here's the section you quoted. Underlined is the powerset, italicized is a feat she's performed.
"Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor."

Power. Feat. Power. Feat.

You are trying to make things more complicated than they already are. Powersets enable people to do powerfeats and her powerset enables her to KO Thor. Therefore following your own principles you should not have a problem with Mantis KOing Thor. Contradicting yourself.


Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Taking into account Thor's durability feats, a normal strength female humanoid, no matter how skilled wouldn't generate the pressure needed to even make the slightest impression on him. Let alone knock him out.

So what your telling me is that despite the fact that her powerset enables her perform the power feat of KOing Thor and her bio states that its in her ability to do so your rejecting it?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Captain America knows pressure points. Thor apparently has them, and normal strength humanoids can knock him out with them. So in a H2H fight with Thor, all else but strength and durability granted him, Cap wins 10/10 right?

I dont think Cap is skilled enough to KO Thor but I think he can do it to Namor. Cap isnt skilled enough to KO thor just piss him off like he would The Hulk

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Have Thor's pressure points moved around since the Mantis incident?


NO, and?

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Have Vision's non-existent pressure points?

and? Was Vision in dense form when he got KOed. If he was and he has no nerve endings then I guess it shoudlnt happen

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Cap vs Vision H2H obviously Cap wins 10/10.

*sigh*

Luke hands him his ass, on a plate.

He doesn't enjoy doing so though, about 7/10

Actually to my knowledge she only did that to Thor via sneak attack. But in actual combat against the likes of Wonderman, Drax, Thanos. She has not been able to repeat that feat.

Plus Cap also knows a good understanding about pressure-points and has hurt others with greater durability then Luke thanks to his shield.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Actually to my knowledge she only did that to Thor via sneak attack.


Yeah but just because she was sneaking up on him doesnt make Thor less durable. Sure if he knew she was coming he could have defended himself but the fact that she Koed him shows her capability.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

But in actual combat against the likes of Wonderman, Drax, Thanos. She has not been able to repeat that feat.

Well at any rate the feat with Thor still stands and her bio states she is capable of doing it.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

Plus Cap also knows a good understanding about pressure-points and has hurt others with greater durability then Luke thanks to his shield.

Thats PIS as far as their concerned.

*bump* for you Xmarks


Originally posted by Alfheim
You are trying to make things more complicated than they already are. Powersets enable people to do powerfeats and her powerset enables her to KO Thor. Therefore following your own principles you should not have a problem with Mantis KOing Thor. Contradicting yourself.




So what your telling me is that despite the fact that her powerset enables her perform the power feat of KOing Thor and her bio states that its in her ability to do so your rejecting it?



I dont think Cap is skilled enough to KO Thor but I think he can do it to Namor. Cap isnt skilled enough to KO thor just piss him off like he would The Hulk



NO, and?



and? Was Vision in dense form when he got KOed. If he was and he has no nerve endings then I guess it shoudlnt happen



*sigh*

Feat. Powerset. Feat. Powerset = martial arts mastery Feat = "has enabled her to KO Thor."
She isn't Drax to his Thanos, she wasn't designed with the expressed intention to KO Thor. "The ability to KO Thor" is not her "power."

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Feat. Powerset. Feat. Powerset = martial arts mastery Feat = "has enabled her to KO Thor."

Which is what i said already and thats what you said already.


Originally posted by xmarksthespot

These things aren't analagous. And it isn't about what people can do in the real world. It's about what characters can do given their powersets in the comic book world.



Right?


Originally posted by xmarksthespot

She isn't Drax to his Thanos, she wasn't designed with the expressed intention to KO Thor. "The ability to KO Thor" is not her "power."

***ing bull****. Does her bio says she has the the ability to KO Thor? You said that peoples powersets give them the ability to do what they do, thats what im saying as well, thats what Marvel are saying as well.

Peoples powersets give them their abilities to do what they do and Mantis's powerset enables her to KO Thor.

bump

Exactly and Caps mastery of the shield plus martial arts has enabled him to hurt guys like Luke.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Which is what i said already and thats what you said already.

Right?

***ing bull****. Does her bio says she has the the ability to KO Thor? You said that peoples powersets give them the ability to do what they do, thats what im saying as well, thats what Marvel are saying as well.

Peoples powersets give them their abilities to do what they do and Mantis's powerset enables her to KO Thor. The sentence says "has enabled her to" which is true. She has. It is framed as a feat not "her power". Whether or not one accepts that feat as plausible within comics considering Mantis' strength or lack thereof and Thor's durability, it is a feat and not a "powerset."

And regardless of whether you think that's her powerset, funnily enough, not everyone being you, not everyone defines a character's powerset in the exact same way as you by what you scrape off of Marvel.com... So chill.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Exactly and Caps mastery of the shield plus martial arts has enabled him to hurt guys like Luke. At least you seem to be grasping the distinction I have between a powerset and a feat. That doesn't imply I agree with the feat, which makes the analogy rather ineffective. The shield, potentially. Hands only? Not imo.

Hands I could see as well.

Punching Thunder ball down briefly and having him spatter out blood.

KO'ing a fatigued Rhino with a kick targeting his nose.

KO'ing Powerman the original one with a punch.

Breaking Hulk's wrist grip with a kick to Hulk's face.

To having Ironman rub his metal jaw after a punch to the face.

Cap's martial art strikes seem to affect a bit very durable beings, especially with him targeting pressure-points/sensitive areas.

IMO he could, not with a one hit, but by targeting that same area repeatedly.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The sentence says "has enabled her to" which is true. She has. It is framed as a feat not "her power". Whether or not one accepts that feat as plausible within comics considering Mantis' strength or lack thereof and Thor's durability, it is a feat and not a "powerset."

Yes I know didnt I say that already??????

Originally posted by Alfheim


So what your telling me is that despite the fact that her powerset
Her MA abilties


Originally posted by Alfheim

enables her perform the power feat of KOing Thor
Self explanatory


Which is what you said before. Well done twice in a row now, you cant read.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Here's the section you quoted. Underlined is the powerset, italicized is a feat she's performed.
"Her mastery of the Priests' martial arts, which focus on manipulation of nerve endings and pressure points, has enabled her to knock out beings as powerful as Thor."





Originally posted by xmarksthespot


At least you seem to be grasping the distinction I have between a powerset and a feat.

Er see above. Furthermore thats no different from what you said before.


Originally posted by xmarksthespot

These things aren't analagous. And it isn't about what people can do in the real world. It's about what characters can do given their powersets in the comic book world.

Dr Strange is the Sorceror Supreme. Doom is the genius ruler of Latveria. And Iron Man is a futurist industrialist genius with too much time on his hands.



eg Iron Mans powerset is his intellect which enbales him to build a suit that perform the power feat of Koing the Thing for example.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

And regardless of whether you think that's her powerset, funnily enough, not everyone being you, not everyone defines a character's powerset in the exact same way as you by what you scrape off of Marvel.com... So chill.

Er xmarks you will probably find it in published verisons of Marvel Universe. Secondly even if it is off Marvel.com its OFFICIAL. Her Bio says she can do it the comics says she can do it. There is no argument its a fictional universe and in that Universe Mantis can knock out Thor.

Mars has a different atmosphere to Earth you dont apply the same rules as you do to Mars just because you dont like it

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Hands I could see as well.

Punching Thunder ball down briefly and having him spatter out blood.

KO'ing a fatigued Rhino with a kick targeting his nose.

KO'ing Powerman the original one with a punch.

Breaking Hulk's wrist grip with a kick to Hulk's face.

To having Ironman rub his metal jaw after a punch to the face.

Cap's martial art strikes seem to affect a bit very durable beings, especially with him targeting pressure-points/sensitive areas.

IMO he could, not with a one hit, but by targeting that same area repeatedly. And IMO Captain America lacks the adequate strength to penetrate Cage's fortified skin and musculature to affect his nerves sufficiently, despite his skill.Originally posted by Alfheim
Yes I know didnt I say that already??????
Her MA abilties
Self explanatory
Which is what you said before. Well done twice in a row now, you cant read.
Er see above. Furthermore thats no different from what you said before.
eg Iron Mans powerset is his intellect which enbales him to build a suit that perform the power feat of Koing the Thing for example.Setting aside the irony of you critiquing my reading while failing to grasp my point yet again... I'll simplify it even further.

From that sentence:
Mantis powerset I define as her being a master of martial arts.
Mantis has a feat where she KOed Thor from behind with normal strength and martial arts somehow. Whether or not I consider this feat valid, it is a feat and not "a part of her powerset."

Meanwhile you read that sentence and because it's from a bio consider it as a whole to be "a powerset."

Analogous sentence:
Black Panther's enhanced speed and proficiency in martial arts | has enabled him to armlock the Silver Surfer.

The first part separated with | I define as his powerset, the second I define as a feat. While you would technically be taking the entire sentence and saying that the ability to armlock Silver Surfer is part of his powerset.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Er xmarks you will probably find it in published verisons of Marvel Universe. Secondly even if it is off Marvel.com its OFFICIAL. Her Bio says she can do it the comics says she can do it. There is no argument its a fictional universe and in that Universe Mantis can knock out Thor. IIRC Marvel.com is fan editable. Anyway see above. It's a fictional universe and in that universe Black Panther can armlock Silver Surfer. That doesn't mean I'm meant to automatically agree with it. Edit: Just like in that universe you don't agree with King Thor breaking Captain America's shield apparently.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Mars has a different atmosphere to Earth you dont apply the same rules as you do to Mars just because you dont like it ...

I have no idea what that analogy was meant to convey.

But it's nice that at least you've calmed down since last.

Edit 2: Oh and I'm flattered you keep all these really old quotes of mine. 313

the black guy ftw.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

From that sentence:
Mantis powerset I define as her being a master of martial arts.


Thats not what I said?

Originally posted by Alfheim

So what your telling me is that despite the fact that her powerset



Originally posted by Alfheim

Her MA abilties

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Mantis has a feat where she KOed Thor from behind with normal strength and martial arts somehow.

Which is what I said.

Originally posted by Alfheim

enables her perform the power feat of KOing Thor and her bio states that its in her ability to do so your rejecting it?



Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Whether or not I consider this feat valid, it is a feat and not "a part of her powerset."

See above.



Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Meanwhile you read that sentence and because it's from a bio consider it as a whole to be "a powerset."

See above.


Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Analogous sentence:
Black Panther's enhanced speed and proficiency in martial arts has enabled him to armlock the Silver Surfer.

You failed hes bio deosnt say that.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

The first clause I define as his powerset, the second I define as a feat.

I KNOWWWW!!!!!

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

While you would technically be taking the entire sentence and saying that the ability to armlock Silver Surfer is part of his powerset.


No I wouldnt.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot


IIRC Marvel.com is fan editable. See above.

Marvel directory says the samething and I know they get their info from Marvel Universe.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/m/mantis.htm

Thus, by knowing the right areas of the body to strike, Mantis could stun even a being as powerful as Thor even though she herself had no superhuman strength.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

It's a fictional universe and in that universe Black Panther can armlock Silver Surfer. That doesn't mean I'm meant to automatically agree with it.
...

I have no idea what that analogy was meant to convey.

The point is if both the bio and the comics are correct its official. Therefore saying its incorrect is like saying Cheetahs cant run up to lets say 100 miles per hour because you dont like it eventhough its been documented and proven. (Hypothetical argument I dont know how fast Cheetahs can run).

In this reality it doesnt make sense. But the MU is a universe with a whole set of different laws. What applies in this universe does not neccesarly imply in the MU.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

But it's nice that at least you've calmed down since last.

**** you.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot


Edit 2: Oh and I'm flattered you keep all these really old quotes of mine. 313

No I dont I went looking for it. You did the samething as well Victor Von Doom.

P.S. I suspect you are doing this unpurpose you sadist.

Originally posted by Alfheim
You failed hes bio deosnt say that. I didn't say it did. It's an analogous sentence used for elaboration purposes. Originally posted by Alfheim
I KNOWWWW!!!!! If you realized the distinction I'm making then you wouldn't be throwing the fit.Originally posted by Alfheim
No I wouldnt.It's what you're doing with that sentence.
Originally posted by Alfheim
Marvel directory says the samething and I know they get their info from Marvel Universe.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/m/mantis.htm

Thus, by knowing the right areas of the body to strike, Mantis could stun even a being as powerful as Thor even though she herself had no superhuman strength.Congratulations you have something semi-solid now. While interpreting the initial sentence correctly one would infer a distinction between powerset, this latter sentence, frames the unlikely feat as an ability and explains it. Kudos. Although from a more dated (and sometimes incorrect e.g. it says "Priests of Paine" source (the OHOTMU 2005 frames it the same way as the initial sentence i.e. distinguishing between powerset and her having a feat).

But (I'll humor you) let's assume we take the (dated) "new" sentence for now. Now if you find something that says the same thing of Captain America, then you might actually be able to claim Mantis KOing Thor as a valid analogy for Captain America.
Originally posted by Alfheim
The point is if both the bio and the comics are correct its official. Therefore saying its incorrect is like saying Cheetahs cant run up to lets say 100 miles per hour because you dont like it eventhough its been documented and proven. (Hypothetical argument I dont know how fast Cheetahs can run).

In this reality it doesnt make sense. But the MU is a universe with a whole set of different laws. What applies in this universe does not neccesarly imply in the MU.It would be a more accurate analogy if:
One cheetah had run 100 mph and somehow managed to flip over a bus.
The initial sentence had stated that "This cheetah's 100 mph speed has enabled it to flip over a bus once."
And distinguishing between the sentence describing the cheetah "power of speed" and that it had a feat of flipping over a bus one time.

Since the feat can be distinguished from the powerset in the sentence, on the forum one can assert that the bus should not be affected in such a way when looking at the bus's "powerset" or the bus having a vast preponderance of contrary "feats."
My Black Panther/SS analogy was much easier to follow.
Originally posted by Alfheim
**** you.

No I dont I went looking for it. You did the samething as well Victor Von Doom.

P.S. I suspect you are doing this unpurpose you sadist. Jeez, calm down.

Before I answer this post. You dont mean to tell me you are still actually saying that I havent disntinguished between powerset and powerfeat??? I mean I thought you were joking but you're serious. I just need to vefify this before I even consider going on.

You're saying that based on the initial sentence it's her ability to KO Thor as far as I can tell, which would in effect make it her powerset - and therefore you're saying I can't dispute it. Or something along those lines. Otherwise I have no idea why you're repeatedly asking me how I can call into dispute the feat. Easy, based on the initial sentence it's a feat subject to the same scrutiny as any other.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
You're saying that based on the initial sentence it's her ability to KO Thor as far as I can tell, which would in effect make it her powerset. Otherwise I have no idea why you're repeatedly asking me how I can call into dispute the feat.

Nooo. I said Powerset= MA ability, Powerfeat = Koing Thor. What we are debating is wether Mantis should be able to KO Thor with her given Powerset. Is this clear now?

Powerset and Powerfeats are two different things but a persons powerset enables them to do certain feats.....but thats what we are debating...you are saying Mantis should not be able to KO Thor with her Powerset I am saying she should.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Nooo. I said Powerset= MA ability, Powerfeat = Koing Thor. What we are debating is wether Mantis should be able to KO Thor with her given Powerset. Is this clear now?

Powerset and Powerfeats are two different things but a persons powerset enables them to do certain feats.....but thats what we are debating...you are saying Mantis should not be able to KO Thor with her Powerset I am saying she should. Then I don't see why you're repeatedly asking me why I can dispute the feat.

We've mutually established that her KOing Thor is a feat she's performed. She did so with martial arts ability yes.

But when looking at any feat in the vs forum both parties must be taken into account. Based on Thor's abilities I don't think Mantis would have the sufficient strength to generate enough penetrative force regardless of her skill.

Has everybody pretty much KOed Thor, from street level to cosmic?
I'm not sure that's much of a feat given how often I see it in threads.
"Well he beat/KOed Thor".
Its a wonder people even think this guy is even remotely close to Superman's league given how often people whoop his ass.

Originally posted by Juntai
Has everybody pretty much KOed Thor, from street level to cosmic?
I'm not sure that's much of a feat given how often I see it in threads.
"Well he beat/KOed Thor".
Its a wonder people even think this guy is even remotely close to Superman's league given how often people whoop his ass. Bad Juntai... leave Thor alone... no cookie for you.

Originally posted by Juntai
Has everybody pretty much KOed Thor, from street level to cosmic?
I'm not sure that's much of a feat given how often I see it in threads.
"Well he beat/KOed Thor".
Its a wonder people even think this guy is even remotely close to Superman's league given how often people whoop his ass. Thor is like the Universal welcome mat. Everyone has stepped on him.

Originally posted by Newjak
Thor is like the Universal welcome mat. Everyone has stepped on him. Apperently.

I mean, I'm not trying to shit on him or anything, I've enjoyed quite a few Thor appearances and arcs, but hell, I'm just calling it as I see it.

I think in the last few days alone I've read about a dozen different characters of all shapes, sizes, and statures/ranks/whatever, whooping or KOing him.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

We've mutually established that her KOing Thor is a feat she's performed. She did so with martial arts ability yes.




Yeah and we mutually established that her powerset were her MA abilities but you kept on telling me I didnt get it. Damn I thought you were winding me up on purpose but you were serious!


Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Then I don't see why you're repeatedly asking me why I can dispute the feat.


But when looking at any feat in the vs forum both parties must be taken into account. Based on Thor's abilities I don't think Mantis would have the sufficient strength to generate enough penetrative force regardless of her skill.

Because the rules state that she can both the Bio and the comics illustrate that it can be done. Therefore it becomes fact like the Cheetah example it doesnt matter how insane it sounds its fact. Its also insane that human beings exposed to radiation can get superhuman powers but those are the rules of the MU.


Furthermore she doesnt use brute force, since shes an MA expert its likely shes uses Chi which is not brute force.

Originally posted by Juntai
Has everybody pretty much KOed Thor, from street level to cosmic?
I'm not sure that's much of a feat given how often I see it in threads.
"Well he beat/KOed Thor".
Its a wonder people even think this guy is even remotely close to Superman's league given how often people whoop his ass.


What streetlevelers have Koed Thor?

Originally posted by Juntai
Apperently.

I mean, I'm not trying to shit on him or anything, I've enjoyed quite a few Thor appearances and arcs, but hell, I'm just calling it as I see it.

I think in the last few days alone I've read about a dozen different characters of all shapes, sizes, and statures/ranks/whatever, whooping or KOing him. Then again when Thor is on his game I don't think anyone really thinks Mantis or Spiderman could even hope to hurt him.

I'm begining to think Thor just holds back way to much for his own good

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah and we mutually established that her powerset were her MA abilities but you kept on telling me I didnt get it. Damn I thought you were winding me up on purpose but you were serious!

Because the rules state that she can both the Bio and the comics illustrate that it can be done. Therefore it becomes fact like the Cheetah example it doesnt matter how insane it sounds its fact. Its also insane that human beings exposed to radiation can get superhuman powers but those are the rules of the MU. I'm not sure I fully agree, but I don't think I can be bothered disputing it right now. It's still not a good analogy either way, since if we take that it is within her power to KO Thor because they've put the feat into her bio, it still doesn't serve as analogous to Captain America. Hers is specifically ascribed to her and explained despite her lack of strength. While he doesn't have these specifics and explanation.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm not sure I fully agree, but I don't think I can be bothered disputing it right now.

Dont fully agree on what? Its ok if you dont want to discuss it just tell me what you dont fully agree on. I hope its not what I think it it.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

It's still not a good analogy either way, since if we take that it is within her power to KO Thor because they've put the feat into her bio,

My point is that its established fact and you cant go against fcat because you dont like it.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

it still doesn't serve as analogous to Captain America.

My point is it can be done. Mantis is better than Cap, but Cap can do what she does on a lesser degree. They are both MA experts but Mantis is the better one. Hell DD has put Mr Hyde on the floor with a narve strike.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot

Hers is specifically ascribed to her and explained despite her lack of strength. While he doesn't have these specifics and explanation.

1. It doesnt have to, she can and thats that..its fact.
2. If you want an explanation it could be a chi strike. A chi strike is not purely phsyical in nature a person could use minimal physical force but the chi would do the damage. This is a real concept in Tai Chi, I think they call it strong Jin.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Dont fully agree on what? Its ok if you dont want to discuss it just tell me what you dont fully agree on. I hope its not what I think it it.That simply because something is stated in bio it can't be disputed on the forum, when taking the other characters abilities into account. But as stated above I won't be disputing it.
Originally posted by Alfheim
1. It doesnt have to, she can and thats that..its fact.
2. If you want an explanation it could be a chi strike. A chi strike is not purely phsyical in nature a person could use minimal physical force but the chi would do the damage. This is a real concept in Tai Chi, I think they call it strong Jin. I wasn't disputing Mantis there. See above. But if you want to say that Mantis can KO Thor because it says in her bio, and want to use that as an analogy to Cap, you'd need a similar analogous statement about Captain America for the analogy to be valid.

Anyway on Cap vs Luke again as stated above imo he lacks the adequate strength to penetrate Cage's fortified skin and musculature to affect his nerves sufficiently, despite his skill in H2H. With the shield he can likely damage him since unlike other characters Cage is not a Golem-like character and maintains a physiology akin to humans, but I don't believe that gives him the majority. That's my two cents.

If you want to argue chi amping etcetera continue on, but I think I'm basically over the thread. Can agree to disagree or you can take this as some sort of concession. I don't really mind either way.

This thread has done very little...

Except prove that X > Alfheim. 131.

Originally posted by Soljer
This thread has done very little...

Except prove that X > Alfheim. 131.

* Tempted to create Xmarksthespot vs Alfheim thread*


















*but fears digi's wrath*

Originally posted by jasonk3
* Tempted to create Xmarksthespot vs Alfheim thread*


















*but fears digi's wrath*

Spite thread....

.

Cage > Cap

X > Alf

Accept that Cap has registered a small pressure-point on banner-hulk to even Giant-man. And Giant-man has taken heavy hits from Hercules and company. And considering all the others I've mention to match to boot.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Accept that Cap has registered a small pressure-point on banner-hulk to even Giant-man. And Giant-man has taken heavy hits from Hercules and company. And considering all the others I've mention to match to boot.

Its PIS.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Accept that Cap has registered a small pressure-point on banner-hulk to even Giant-man. And Giant-man has taken heavy hits from Hercules and company. And considering all the others I've mention to match to boot.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to pressure point Hulk?

I'll give you the other ones but Hulk sheer mass, skin thickness and HF make trying a pressure point idiotic.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Do you have any idea how hard it is to pressure point Hulk?

I'll give you the other ones but Hulk sheer mass, skin thickness and HF make trying a pressure point idiotic.

Its a comic book! The rules say that Batman can sneak up on Superman because hes done it enough times, Cap is pressure pointing people with vast superhuman strength.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Its a comic book! The rules say that Batman can sneak up on Superman because hes done it enough times, Cap is pressure pointing people with vast superhuman strength.

Batman has used tech to do that in most instances that I've seen.

You need to get over this confusion between strength and durability. Pressure points have trouble working on Wolverine due to his powers. Hulk is Wolvie's physical better in every way.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Batman has used tech to do that in most instances that I've seen.


Could be, but I dont think that was the intention of the rule. That statement also implies not all the time.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos

You need to get over this confusion between strength and durability. Pressure points have trouble working on Wolverine due to his powers. Hulk is Wolvie's physical better in every way.

What confusion?

Originally posted by Alfheim
What confusion?

You say it's impressive that he hurts people with superhuman strength. Thats actually very easy to do. What's hard is hurting people with superhuman durability.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You say it's impressive that he hurts people with superhuman strength. Thats actually very easy to do. What's hard is hurting people with superhuman durability.

So let me get this straight people with superhuman strength dont have superhuman durability.

Originally posted by Alfheim
So let me get this straight people with superhuman strength dont have superhuman durability.

They often do. However it's not a nessecity and not always on the same level.