Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

This Forum is full of misconceptions, which become Canon. Which particular piece of hearsay amuses you the most?

I favorite was and always has been the Phoenix made everything

That Apocalypse has always been a jobber and that BB actually one-shoted him. HoM=non-canon.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
That Apocalypse has always been a jobber and that BB actually one-shoted him. HoM=non-canon.

That Black Bolt wouldn't one shot Apocalypse if they were to meet in the real 616 universe.

Originally posted by The Libertine
This Forum is full of misconceptions, which become Canon. Which particular piece of hearsay amuses you the most?

The Heart of the Infinite. Very dumb, very stupid. Here's an object, only found by Thanos, he appears to 'kill' everyone, let he's too stupid to realize he's been misled by Living Tribunal's Boss. Another fav of mine is Exitar/Arishem destroy a large bald man, yet Sue taps into hyperspace, potentially the very same thing Celestials do and they just vanish. Guy222 says that's BS

That SM/FL is PIS.

Originally posted by "V"
That Black Bolt wouldn't one shot Apocalypse if they were to meet in the real 616 universe.

Happened. Apoc just laughed.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers4.png

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Happened. Apoc just laughed.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers4.png

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers4.png

Wow... he really looks like a mongoloid in that picture, doesn't he

Originally posted by Evil_Ash
Happened. Apoc just laughed.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/powers4.png

Fine, as it stands in the Marvel Universe now Apoc would get his arse handed to him.

That story was tripe regardless.

Originally posted by "V"
Fine, as it stands in the Marvel Universe now Apoc would get his arse handed to him.

That story was tripe regardless.

Plus he totally looks like an idjit!

Trion Juggernaut was 100% Cyttorak!

Originally posted by "V"
Fine, as it stands in the Marvel Universe now Apoc would get his arse handed to him.

That story was tripe regardless.

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6852/notlistenzg1.jpg

That dodging lasers (and bullets) always requires FTL reflexs and speed.

I know that one isn't true. I can name 2 street levelers and one meta-human who've done it. Captain America, Daredevil (He has done it, but it's doubtful if he can do it consistently), Spiderman. Wolverine caught a bullet once in his hand, but I think that was not PIS, it was also complete shit writing.

that's my next gripe. Wolverine doing things like catching bullets, or stabbing Thanos w/e IG. Some people actually count those as feats. On a related note, Logan cannot beat Deadpool. End of story. DP is a better fighter, better healing factor, and better tactician. As Taskmaster said, he's just that damn good.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I know that one isn't true. I can name 2 street levelers and one meta-human who've done it. Captain America, Daredevil (He has done it, but it's doubtful if he can do it consistently), Spiderman. Wolverine caught a bullet once in his hand, but I think that was not PIS, it was also complete shit writing.

that's my next gripe. Wolverine doing things like catching bullets, or stabbing Thanos w/e IG. Some people actually count those as feats. On a related note, Logan cannot beat Deadpool. End of story. DP is a better fighter, better healing factor, and better tactician. As Taskmaster said, he's just that damn good.

Alan Moore had Ozymandias catch a bullet in Watchmen, was that shit writing?

Deadpool is crap nowadays, I don't even find him funny any longer to be honest. Not that I did especially in the first place.

The Omniverse theory....."Marvel is larger than the DCU because they only have a multiverse. Whereas Marvel has the Omniverse. That's why Marvel's Cosmics are better"

Yet they fail to grasp that by Omniverse implies all Multiverses into ONE whole. If Marvel Universe possess a Omniverse that means that DC, Wildstorm, Image and Vertigo are all part of Marvel Comics. Which is utter BS. Marvel just like any other comic book in the business is base on a Multiverse.

The misconception that we should be reading comics to look for feats and evidence to use in battles, rather than for characters, writing, artwork, and storylines.

Also, along the same lines, the misconception that we should have a rigid cosmic hierarchy rather than a healthy sense of ambiguity....the same kind that powers much of comic-dom.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
The Omniverse theory....."Marvel is larger than the DCU because they only have a multiverse. Whereas Marvel has the Omniverse. That's why Marvel's Cosmics are better"

Yet they fail to grasp that by Omniverse implies all Multiverses into ONE whole. If Marvel Universe possess a Omniverse that means that DC, Wildstorm, Image and Vertigo are all part of Marvel Comics. Which is utter BS. Marvel just like any other comic book in the business is base on a Multiverse.

Best post of the day!!

Originally posted by DigiMark007
The misconception that we should be reading comics to look for feats and evidence to use in battles, rather than for characters, writing, artwork, and storylines.

Also, along the same lines, the misconception that we should have a rigid cosmic hierarchy rather than a healthy sense of ambiguity....the same kind that powers much of comic-dom.


second best post of the day, damn and both from the mods.....



Has hell frozen over

Originally posted by The Libertine
second best post of the day, damn and both from the mods.....



Has hell frozen over

That's why they pay us the big money, and you guys are left to stand in awe.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
That's why they pay us the big money, and you guys are left to stand in awe.



They pay you? In what alternative reality is the?

Originally posted by The Libertine
They pay you? In what alternative reality is the?

Here's a few:

Comic Characters are based on a CBR debate rules:

First of all, comic book writers couldn't care less about someone on a forum saying "PIS!" every time there's a low feat involved. It's their book, and I doubt they like you calling them a moron. Second, claiming PIS should only be reserved for feats that are written by writers like Loeb and Hudlin, who stroke their characters and make them out to be more than they are.

Spider-Man vs Firelord

For Digi's sake, I'm actually going to defend this one. First of all, it is not up for people reading to comic to say what should and should not be on that page. It's the companies decision, and we don't have the right to say OMG IT DOESN'T COUNT! Spider-Man performs well against Top-Tiers. That's part of his character, just like Batman able to sneak up on Superman, and Wonder Woman being ugly.
Second, Spider-Man has beaten Firelord TWICE. Has anyone ever thought for a split second that Firelord just isn't that durable? He's like the bastard son of Galactus' Heralds. He lost to Spider-Man because Spidey is powerful enough to defeat the weakest of Heralds, and it's not like he hasn't beaten high-end mid tiers or low end top tiers before.

All of Darkseid's lower showing are Avatars or Desaad.
I'm just going to state this right now. If you were to go and say this on a board like Comic Edge, Superherochat, or any other, you'd get laughed off like you're an imbecile. It's a claim that isn't grounded by fact, but rather assumption. When it comes to Darkseid, you need to take into account the fact that there is a mess of retcons with him. The only Desaad impersonations are two Dr. Fate appearances, and a Hawk and Dove appearance. As for avatars, there are also very few of them to actually attribute to DS being defeated.

So, you may ask "Well, Howard, if Darkseid is supposed to be that powerful, then why does Superman beat him?"

Well, there's a few things that factor into this. The first one is the fact that they wanted to make Darkseid a better DCU villain. What happens to villains in the DCU more times than not? They get beat by top tier heroes, and are made to look like fools. If you want to blame anything for Darkseid being lowered, blame the Superman animated series. The writers actually have stated, I believe, to taking 'seid down a few notches for the sake of making him beatable. Essentially, here's how it goes: You know the Darkseid that was uber? He's essentially been retconned for lack of a better term. He's loooong gone.

So (though it sucks) Superman deflected the OE with heat vision, Wonder Woman did it with her bracelets, Superman blinded Darkseid. Doomsday defeated Darkseid, etc etc. It stinks, but it's there.

One more:

Professor Hulk had problems with strength

This is the dumbest claim that I've ever seen about Hulk. I know there's minimal love for the Great Green Behemoth, but I really can't stand when one of my favorite characters gets slandered like that. First of all, one thing that was evident was that this incarnation was actually the strongest and the most durable of all of them. Imagine being the strongest being on a planet, but having no control of it for years. Then, all of a sudden, you gain complete control over your powers. That's Professor Hulk. It's Prof. Hulk that was able to heal a huge hole in his chest due to Trauma. It was Prof. Hulk who healed from a flayed skeleton after kicking the crap out of the U-Foes by himself (same fight where he was impaled through all his limbs and stomach). It's Prof. Hulk who simulated five times a normal centrifuge, his hands vibrating at 1/9th the speed of light, and wasn't even mad. He's the incarnation that soloed X-Factor as well.

So, Prof. Hulk is probably the most deadly incarnation. He's not above being pissed, but he's in complete control of his strength.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
I know that one isn't true. I can name 2 street levelers and one meta-human who've done it. Captain America, Daredevil (He has done it, but it's doubtful if he can do it consistently), Spiderman. Wolverine caught a bullet once in his hand, but I think that was not PIS, it was also complete shit writing.

that's my next gripe. Wolverine doing things like catching bullets, or stabbing Thanos w/e IG. Some people actually count those as feats. On a related note, Logan cannot beat Deadpool. End of story. DP is a better fighter, better healing factor, and better tactician. As Taskmaster said, he's just that damn good.

I am glad I do not run into you in the vs forum because I shvoed so much information down yoru throat your head would spinn.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Here's a few:

Comic Characters are based on a CBR debate rules:

First of all, comic book writers couldn't care less about someone on a forum saying "PIS!" every time there's a low feat involved. It's their book, and I doubt they like you calling them a moron. Second, claiming PIS should only be reserved for feats that are written by writers like Loeb and Hudlin, who stroke their characters and make them out to be more than they are.

Spider-Man vs Firelord

For Digi's sake, I'm actually going to defend this one. First of all, it is not up for people reading to comic to say what should and should not be on that page. It's the companies decision, and we don't have the right to say OMG IT DOESN'T COUNT! Spider-Man performs well against Top-Tiers. That's part of his character, just like Batman able to sneak up on Superman, and Wonder Woman being ugly.
Second, Spider-Man has beaten Firelord TWICE. Has anyone ever thought for a split second that Firelord just isn't that durable? He's like the bastard son of Galactus' Heralds. He lost to Spider-Man because Spidey is powerful enough to defeat the weakest of Heralds, and it's not like he hasn't beaten high-end mid tiers or low end top tiers before.

All of Darkseid's lower showing are Avatars or Desaad.
I'm just going to state this right now. If you were to go and say this on a board like Comic Edge, Superherochat, or any other, you'd get laughed off like you're an imbecile. It's a claim that isn't grounded by fact, but rather assumption. When it comes to Darkseid, you need to take into account the fact that there is a mess of retcons with him. The only Desaad impersonations are two Dr. Fate appearances, and a Hawk and Dove appearance. As for avatars, there are also very few of them to actually attribute to DS being defeated.

So, you may ask "Well, Howard, if Darkseid is supposed to be that powerful, then why does Superman beat him?"

Well, there's a few things that factor into this. The first one is the fact that they wanted to make Darkseid a better DCU villain. What happens to villains in the DCU more times than not? They get beat by top tier heroes, and are made to look like fools. If you want to blame anything for Darkseid being lowered, blame the Superman animated series. The writers actually have stated, I believe, to taking 'seid down a few notches for the sake of making him beatable. Essentially, here's how it goes: You know the Darkseid that was uber? He's essentially been retconned for lack of a better term. He's loooong gone.

So (though it sucks) Superman deflected the OE with heat vision, Wonder Woman did it with her bracelets, Superman blinded Darkseid. Doomsday defeated Darkseid, etc etc. It stinks, but it's there.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
One more:

Professor Hulk had problems with strength

This is the dumbest claim that I've ever seen about Hulk. I know there's minimal love for the Great Green Behemoth, but I really can't stand when one of my favorite characters gets slandered like that. First of all, one thing that was evident was that this incarnation was actually the strongest and the most durable of all of them. Imagine being the strongest being on a planet, but having no control of it for years. Then, all of a sudden, you gain complete control over your powers. That's Professor Hulk. It's Prof. Hulk that was able to heal a huge hole in his chest due to Trauma. It was Prof. Hulk who healed from a flayed skeleton after kicking the crap out of the U-Foes by himself (same fight where he was impaled through all his limbs and stomach). It's Prof. Hulk who simulated five times a normal centrifuge, his hands vibrating at 1/9th the speed of light, and wasn't even mad. He's the incarnation that soloed X-Factor as well.

So, Prof. Hulk is probably the most deadly incarnation. He's not above being pissed, but he's in complete control of his strength.

And now I feel stupid . . .

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Spider-Man vs Firelord

For Digi's sake, I'm actually going to defend this one. First of all, it is not up for people reading to comic to say what should and should not be on that page. It's the companies decision, and we don't have the right to say OMG IT DOESN'T COUNT! Spider-Man performs well against Top-Tiers. That's part of his character, just like Batman able to sneak up on Superman, and Wonder Woman being ugly.
Second, Spider-Man has beaten Firelord TWICE. Has anyone ever thought for a split second that Firelord just isn't that durable? He's like the bastard son of Galactus' Heralds. He lost to Spider-Man because Spidey is powerful enough to defeat the weakest of Heralds, and it's not like he hasn't beaten high-end mid tiers or low end top tiers before.
This one kind of bugs me. People act like Spidey 1 shot him with his pinky when really Firelord is just a big dummy that let his honor get himself dragged around the city all day then circumstantially defeated.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
This one kind of bugs me. People act like Spidey 1 shot him with his pinky when really Firelord is just a big dummy that let his honor get himself dragged around the city all day then circumstantially defeated.

Essentially. Firelord is a dumbass.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
And now I feel stupid . . .

Why for?

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Why for?

You came up with detailed responses to innacuracies on the debate forums that never even occured to me.

Allright, I'll post the major one that immediatley comes to mind

Smurf's #1 Disliked Misconception:

1. Characters are weak because they are unpopular:

This most common example of this would be someone like Jubilee. The girl can blow up things at a subatomic level. Bloddlusted Jubilee pwns Wolverine, Spiderman, and surely ay other street leveler. How ever, she's treated like she could discharge enough power to tear through paper.

This kind of thing is also true for whoever is disliked at the moment. Often it's Storm, Wolverine, Hulk, etc. who, due to an overwhelming amount of deluded fanboys, recieves a major backlash from all sensible posters. And suddenly, people start believing that Wolverine could lose to Daredevil, and that Black Panther could give Hulk a serious fight.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You came up with detailed responses to innacuracies on the debate forums that never even occured to me.

I do my best. I can't stand it when those types of innacuracies stand around.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
This one kind of bugs me. People act like Spidey 1 shot him with his pinky when really Firelord is just a big dummy that let his honor get himself dragged around the city all day then circumstantially defeated.

Yes, but most people assume that Spidey beat him easily. He had to bring his A-game for 2 comics straight, and work FL into various situations to inflict damage on him (subway car, exploding gas station, etc.).

FL himself said that he didn't want to simply destroy the city to destroy SM. He wanted to best him in single combat. And then he got owned in single combat....that part of the fight wasn't poorly written.

So PIS or not, it's top 5 among Spidey showings too, and the only major PIS is FL withholiding a nova blast.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yes, but most people assume that Spidey beat him easily. He had to bring his A-game for 2 comics straight, and work FL into various situations to inflict damage on him (subway car, exploding gas station, etc.).

FL himself said that he didn't want to simply destroy the city to destroy SM. He wanted to best him in single combat. And then he got owned in single combat....that part of the fight wasn't poorly written.

So PIS or not, it's top 5 among Spidey showings too, and the only major PIS is FL withholiding a nova blast.

I semi-disagree with you. Having a character act in character isn't PIS.

Besides, where do we get off saying the writer is an idiot, sans Hudlin and Loeb?

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
I semi-disagree with you. Having a character act in character isn't PIS.

Besides, where do we get off saying the writer is an idiot, sans Hudlin and Loeb?

Fair enough, and I suppose I'd agree about the PIS thing.

But I never said anything about the writer...I actually think it was a well-written fight, given the circumstances.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Fair enough, and I suppose I'd agree about the PIS thing.

But I never said anything about the writer...I actually think it was a well-written fight, given the circumstances.

Same here.

Wasn't the cover of their second fight having someone say in the background "Spider-Man! You can't beat Firelord!"

He says, "wanna bet?"

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Yes, but most people assume that Spidey beat him easily. He had to bring his A-game for 2 comics straight, and work FL into various situations to inflict damage on him (subway car, exploding gas station, etc.).

FL himself said that he didn't want to simply destroy the city to destroy SM. He wanted to best him in single combat. And then he got owned in single combat....that part of the fight wasn't poorly written.

So PIS or not, it's top 5 among Spidey showings too, and the only major PIS is FL withholiding a nova blast. You see, I disagree with you here.
I have saw the fight before we run into that.

How does someone, who withstands Surfer's blasts on the daily, get damaged by a subway car, and a gas station... or, how does a gas station so much as make him blink? He controls fire.

Anyway, even if weakened, how does this allow Spider-Man to KO him?

First off, Firelord shouldn't be hurt by those things.
Second, Firelord shouldn't be put down by punches, from Spider-Man even if he is weakened (is his duribility affected?).
Also, anything that Spidey threw at him, shouldn't have affected his stamina (because stamina, also is a cause).
Even if he was beaten in combat (fighting skills), he still shouldn't have been KOed. Hell, how could he not react to Spidey attacking him anyway? His reflexes have him fighting Morg, Surfer, etc.

No, nothing in that fight makes sense. You can say that Firelord COULD have killed him, but, that doesn't change the horrible duribility and fighting skills he was written with in that comic.

It is pis, unless we say a gas station could affect him. Which... Surfer has surivived planets exploding without a scratch... can we compare the two?

Originally posted by bigbran
You see, I disagree with you here.
I have saw the fight before we run into that.

How does someone, who withstands Surfer's blasts on the daily, get damaged by a subway car, and a gas station... or, how does a gas station so much as make him blink? He controls fire.

Anyway, even if weakened, how does this allow Spider-Man to KO him?

First off, Firelord shouldn't be hurt by those things.
Second, Firelord shouldn't be put down by punches, from Spider-Man even if he is weakened (is his duribility affected?).
Also, anything that Spidey threw at him, shouldn't have affected his stamina (because stamina, also is a cause).
Even if he was beaten in combat (fighting skills), he still shouldn't have been KOed. Hell, how could he not react to Spidey attacking him anyway? His reflexes have him fighting Morg, Surfer, etc.

No, nothing in that fight makes sense. You can say that Firelord COULD have killed him, but, that doesn't change the horrible duribility and fighting skills he was written with in that comic.

It is pis, unless we say a gas station could affect him. Which... Surfer has surivived planets exploding without a scratch... can we compare the two?

As always, you forget one fact, Bran.

Firelord sucks.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Here's a few:

All of Darkseid's lower showing are Avatars or Desaad.
I'm just going to state this right now. If you were to go and say this on a board like Comic Edge, Superherochat, or any other, you'd get laughed off like you're an imbecile. It's a claim that isn't grounded by fact, but rather assumption. When it comes to Darkseid, you need to take into account the fact that there is a mess of retcons with him. The only Desaad impersonations are two Dr. Fate appearances, and a Hawk and Dove appearance. As for avatars, there are also very few of them to actually attribute to DS being defeated.



Well if you said it on some of the bigger comics boards like the Hype people would agree with you. So really it's kids boards Vs. boards with older members who understand retconns a bit better.

It's no big problem you don't get it though! You have your own agenda, it's worng but that's your choice.

I love how he accepts Spider-man beating firelord yet Superman holding his own with darkseid and hurting him must mean DS has been depowered. And the fact most of his appearances have been retconed as avatars still doesn't sway him.

Am I the only one who thinks Beta Ray Howard was reaching abit to try and disprove Draco's assertation that DS has using avatars since the 80s?

That every new member is a sock of Whirly's

Did anyone ever think I was a sock of Whirly when I came?

Originally posted by DigiMark007

Also, along the same lines, the misconception that we should have a rigid cosmic hierarchy rather than a healthy sense of ambiguity....the same kind that powers much of comic-dom.



I was trying to make this point in the LT vs Lucifer thread.

Originally posted by The Libertine
Well if you said it on some of the bigger comics boards like the Hype people would agree with you. So really it's kids boards Vs. boards with older members who understand retconns a bit better.

It's no big problem you don't get it though! You have your own agenda, it's worng but that's your choice.

Worng? Never heard of that one.

Son, I think you are going off of third party information that you don't know crap about. You're just having a hard time dealing with the truth.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Am I the only one who thinks Beta Ray Howard was reaching abit to try and disprove Draco's assertation that DS has using avatars since the 80s?

Reaching? Trickster, you believed half truths, and I went out of my way to get them corrected.

So, finding out the truth of the matter is reaching? That's stupid.

Hell, you said he was under Presence and Spectre. Well, you missed:
-Great Evil Beast (albeit not what one would call a "current chartacter." But so what?
-Archangel Michael
-Lucifer Morningstar
-The Word
-The Decreator
-The Endless
-Oblivion Shadow
-The Ultimator (not currently active)
-Mr.Mxyztplk,Bat-Mite,Qwsp,YZ,and other imps
-King of Tears
-Azmodeus
-Yuga Khan (not currently active)
-S’ ivaa (not currently active)
-Black Alice
-Trigon

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard

Spider-Man vs Firelord

For Digi's sake, I'm actually going to defend this one. First of all, it is not up for people reading to comic to say what should and should not be on that page. It's the companies decision, and we don't have the right to say OMG IT DOESN'T COUNT! Spider-Man performs well against Top-Tiers. That's part of his character, just like Batman able to sneak up on Superman, and Wonder Woman being ugly.
Second, Spider-Man has beaten Firelord TWICE. Has anyone ever thought for a split second that Firelord just isn't that durable? He's like the bastard son of Galactus' Heralds. He lost to Spider-Man because Spidey is powerful enough to defeat the weakest of Heralds, and it's not like he hasn't beaten high-end mid tiers or low end top tiers before.

^
^
^
Obviously didn't read Annihilation

beta ray, if you're going to adopt the irritating masterstorm mode of calling everyone who disagrees with you "son" "kiddo" "junior" etc, you better get a hell of a lot more evidence on your side.

Originally posted by Grimm22
^
^
^
Obviously didn't read Annihilation

Seriously... like the new sig Grimm.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Reaching? Trickster, you believed half truths, and I went out of my way to get them corrected.

So, finding out the truth of the matter is reaching? That's stupid.

Hell, you said he was under Presence and Spectre. Well, you missed:
-Great Evil Beast (albeit not what one would call a "current chartacter." But so what?
-Archangel Michael
-Lucifer Morningstar
-The Word
-The Decreator
-The Endless
-Oblivion Shadow
-The Ultimator (not currently active)
-Mr.Mxyztplk,Bat-Mite,Qwsp,YZ,and other imps
-King of Tears
-Azmodeus
-Yuga Khan (not currently active)
-S’ ivaa (not currently active)
-Black Alice
-Trigon

I would add Overmaster and Phantom Stranger to the list.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Am I the only one who thinks Beta Ray Howard was reaching abit to try and disprove Draco's assertation that DS has using avatars since the 80s?

Not really.

I mean he wasn't affected by the company wide-retcon that was COIE , yet he's suddenly getting his ass kicked by weakened Supes ?

It's either clones or CHEEEEEEAP writing.

Originally posted by grey fox
Not really.

I mean he wasn't affected by the company wide-retcon that was COIE , yet he's suddenly getting his ass kicked by weakened Supes ?

It's either clones or CHEEEEEEAP writing.

Essentially. It's come down to the fact that DC decided as a whole to crap on the character and make him weaker for the sake of using him more often. They could have came up with a new villain just as easily.

Originally posted by manorastroman
beta ray, if you're going to adopt the irritating masterstorm mode of calling everyone who disagrees with you "son" "kiddo" "junior" etc, you better get a hell of a lot more evidence on your side.

You know the drill sargeant from Full Metal Jacket?

He's my hero.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
You know the drill sargeant from Full Metal Jacket?

He's my hero.

...he also got his brains blown out.

Originally posted by grey fox
...he also got his brains blown out.

That was Pile. Sarge got a bullet in the chest.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
You know the drill sargeant from Full Metal Jacket?

He's my hero.

His lines make for the best samples ever

Originally posted by inamilist
His lines make for the best samples ever

Yes they do.
Don't click if you're sensitive.

Originally posted by bigbran
You see, I disagree with you here.
I have saw the fight before we run into that.

How does someone, who withstands Surfer's blasts on the daily, get damaged by a subway car, and a gas station... or, how does a gas station so much as make him blink? He controls fire.

Anyway, even if weakened, how does this allow Spider-Man to KO him?

First off, Firelord shouldn't be hurt by those things.
Second, Firelord shouldn't be put down by punches, from Spider-Man even if he is weakened (is his duribility affected?).
Also, anything that Spidey threw at him, shouldn't have affected his stamina (because stamina, also is a cause).
Even if he was beaten in combat (fighting skills), he still shouldn't have been KOed. Hell, how could he not react to Spidey attacking him anyway? His reflexes have him fighting Morg, Surfer, etc.

No, nothing in that fight makes sense. You can say that Firelord COULD have killed him, but, that doesn't change the horrible duribility and fighting skills he was written with in that comic.

It is pis, unless we say a gas station could affect him. Which... Surfer has surivived planets exploding without a scratch... can we compare the two?

I see nothing from FL's past showings that would make the fight PIS:
- getting rammed by a subway
- being point blank for an exploding gas station
- beat on mercilessly by Spidey
- I might be forgetting something....but that's still plenty.

There's a lot of blunt trauma there, regarldess of past showings. Saying it was PIS is a stretch, especially since I've never seen a defenseless FL take a city-busting blast (or greater) and be conscious. He just doesn't have that kind of showing.

And as for the reflex thing, there's a huge difference between travel speed and reaction time.

Say you threw 100 daggers simultaneously at Spidey and Surfer, and asked them to catch as many as possible. I legitimately think SM would catch more. I don't see FL not being able to hit him in H2H combat as PIS....not at all.

...

Was the fight still a strech? Sure. But a low-ish showing from FL combined with a high-ish showing from Spidey (and yes, he was tired afterward), and FL refusing to use his nova blast, and it's not an illogical outcome.

I'd like Batdude, if he can, come on this thread and explain T-Vo, because people are making it out to be more than it is.

He's one of the few actually balanced Superman fans on this site.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
The Omniverse theory....."Marvel is larger than the DCU because they only have a multiverse. Whereas Marvel has the Omniverse. That's why Marvel's Cosmics are better"

Yet they fail to grasp that by Omniverse implies all Multiverses into ONE whole. If Marvel Universe possess a Omniverse that means that DC, Wildstorm, Image and Vertigo are all part of Marvel Comics. Which is utter BS. Marvel just like any other comic book in the business is base on a Multiverse.

Marvel has its own Omniverse, with it's own Omniversal Guardian:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7932/omniis1cz2.th.jpg
(excerpt from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe)


"My hand guides the Omni-verse Now, Unlike my Father, I have no desire to shape the destiny of men"
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2638/r20ei9.th.jpg


This is Roma's Starlight Citidel,

"from this venue, the Guardian of Reality can view events on EVERY PLANE of the OMNIVERSE"
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/7106/r2ef3.th.jpg




The Omniversal Tribune had the power to erase any Universe in the Omniverse with the Celestial Nullifier:

"In ALL the OMNI-VERSE there is NOT ONE Universe that I cannot DESTROY at the Touch of a Switch"
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3205/e8tr6.th.jpg




Now Roma and Saturnyne posses the Celestial Nullifier:

"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension"
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1056/r8fu4.th.jpg
"By breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse CEASES TO EXIST"



I hope this helped to put to rest that misconception that other Comic book companies share the same Omniverse as Marvel's.

Speaking of T-Vo.
http://www.comicboards.com/superman/view.php?rpl=060903190338&q=vo

Da da da da da da! Retconned!

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Speaking of T-Vo.
http://www.comicboards.com/superman/view.php?rpl=060903190338&q=vo

Da da da da da da! Retconned!
Not really. That just means we won't see it used under Busiek's pen. Other than that, it's still one of his powers until it's officially shown/stated in a comic that he can no longer use it.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Marvel has its own Omniverse, with it's own Omniversal Guardian:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7932/omniis1cz2.th.jpg
(excerpt from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe)


"My hand guides the Omni-verse Now, Unlike my Father, I have no desire to shape the destiny of men"
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2638/r20ei9.th.jpg


This is Roma's Starlight Citidel,

"from this venue, the Guardian of Reality can view events on EVERY PLANE of the OMNIVERSE"
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/7106/r2ef3.th.jpg




The Omniversal Tribune had the power to erase any Universe in the Omniverse with the Celestial Nullifier:

"In ALL the OMNI-VERSE there is NOT ONE Universe that I cannot DESTROY at the Touch of a Switch"
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3205/e8tr6.th.jpg




Now Roma and Saturnyne posses the Celestial Nullifier:

"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension"
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1056/r8fu4.th.jpg
"By breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse CEASES TO EXIST"



I hope this helped to put to rest that misconception that other Comic book companies share the same Omniverse as Marvel's.

Sorry, but Marvel isn't the authority on the Theory of an Omniverse. All your doing is taking their word. Simply put...Marvel is wrong (wow, the shock!) All you do is post images as to what Marvel says. It doesn't work like that...here is a link in which it states differently:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_%28Marvel_Comics%29#Omniverse

Marvel does not have an Omniverse...It's simply just another Multiverse of Comics. There is only one Omniverse in fiction and is the sum of all other Multiverses. We're not fictional characters. Comics on the other hand are..sorry..things don't generate out of Marvel Comics.

Simple.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Sorry, but Marvel isn't the authority on the Theory of an Omniverse. All your doing is taking their word. Simply put...Marvel is wrong (wow, the shock!) All you do is post images as to what Marvel says. It doesn't work like that...here is a link in which it states differently:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_%28Marvel_Comics%29#Omniverse

Marvel does not have an Omniverse...It's simply just another Multiverse of Comics. There is only one Omniverse in fiction is the sum of all others. We're not fictional characters. Comics on the other hand are..sorry..things don't generate out of Marvel Comics.

Simple.

Except for the fact that the comic evidence contradicts that.

Check the page again.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Except for the fact that the comic evidence contradicts that.

Check the page again.

Checks again:

"Omni is the Latin word for 'all.'"

Yup, Marvel is still wrong. DCU is not a part of the MU.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Checks again:

"Omni is the Latin word for 'all.'"

Yup, Marvel is still wrong. DCU is not a part of the MU.

Thank you for that.

The thing that is incorrect is that Marvel is its own Omniverse, as stated on panel.

Whoever originally wrote that Wiki article was full of it.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Checks again:

"Omni is the Latin word for 'all.'"

Yup, Marvel is still wrong. DCU is not a part of the MU. So... Roma also guards DC too?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I see nothing from FL's past showings that would make the fight PIS:
- getting rammed by a subway
- being point blank for an exploding gas station
- beat on mercilessly by Spidey
- I might be forgetting something....but that's still plenty.

There's a lot of blunt trauma there, regarldess of past showings. Saying it was PIS is a stretch, especially since I've never seen a defenseless FL take a city-busting blast (or greater) and be conscious. He just doesn't have that kind of showing.

And as for the reflex thing, there's a huge difference between travel speed and reaction time.

Say you threw 100 daggers simultaneously at Spidey and Surfer, and asked them to catch as many as possible. I legitimately think SM would catch more. I don't see FL not being able to hit him in H2H combat as PIS....not at all.

...

Was the fight still a strech? Sure. But a low-ish showing from FL combined with a high-ish showing from Spidey (and yes, he was tired afterward), and FL refusing to use his nova blast, and it's not an illogical outcome. http://img40.imagevenue.com/loc175/th_79810_smallstar.jpg
http://img23.imagevenue.com/loc219/th_79815_smallstar2.jpg
Does this not contridict the entire fight? Why didn't he absorb the energy from the gas station?

Subway:
Does Drax not hit harder than a subway?

Gas Station:
Does Surfer not dish out more damage than a gas station exploding, in almost... everyone of his blasts? Surfer's are more concentrated, but just because of the size, that doesn't mean that they are weaker.

Getting punched by Spidey:


City busting blast? What? It only destroyed a block. Anyway, does Surfer not put out more energy than destroying a block?
An exploding gas station...
I also know that those ships in Annihilation were way bigger than blocks...

I know about the travel speed and such, but Firelord still reacts to people like Morg, Surfer, etc.

Surfer wouldn't have to move at all... also, Surfer would probably catch them all... nano second reflexes.

Pis then?
Just because he refused to use a blast, doesn't mean that that makes it reasonable for him to get his ass kicked the way he did.
It doesn't negate his duribility after all.

Originally posted by nimbus006
Seriously... like the new sig Grimm.

Credit goes to pittman

Originally posted by Mr Master
Marvel has its own Omniverse, with it's own Omniversal Guardian:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7932/omniis1cz2.th.jpg
(excerpt from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe)


"My hand guides the Omni-verse Now, Unlike my Father, I have no desire to shape the destiny of men"
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2638/r20ei9.th.jpg


This is Roma's Starlight Citidel,

"from this venue, the Guardian of Reality can view events on EVERY PLANE of the OMNIVERSE"
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/7106/r2ef3.th.jpg




The Omniversal Tribune had the power to erase any Universe in the Omniverse with the Celestial Nullifier:

"In ALL the OMNI-VERSE there is NOT ONE Universe that I cannot DESTROY at the Touch of a Switch"
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3205/e8tr6.th.jpg




Now Roma and Saturnyne posses the Celestial Nullifier:

"This Crystal embodies the LifeForce of your Home Dimension"
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1056/r8fu4.th.jpg
"By breaking it, that Entire Portion of the Omniverse CEASES TO EXIST"



I hope this helped to put to rest that misconception that other Comic book companies share the same Omniverse as Marvel's.

Bah, Jack Kirby walks in and just erases all this Omniverse garbage

"Once upon a time there was a guy named Fred who destroyed the omniverse."

Odd, Fred succesfully destroyed the omniverse, yet I'm still here. Obviously His Omniverse isn't the same as ours.

I think the Omniverse thing is all about perspective.

Marvel has it's own OMNIVERSE , which encompasses EVERYTHING and ANYTHING marvel has produced etc

DC (as a separate company and thus a seperate 'thing' entirely) has it's own OMNIVERSE.

If DC was merged with Marvel then yes i'd agree with the statement that Roma gaurds DC as well...

Originally posted by bigbran
http://img40.imagevenue.com/loc175/th_79810_smallstar.jpg
http://img23.imagevenue.com/loc219/th_79815_smallstar2.jpg
Does this not contridict the entire fight? Why didn't he absorb the energy from the gas station?

Subway:
Does Drax not hit harder than a subway?

Gas Station:
Does Surfer not dish out more damage than a gas station exploding, in almost... everyone of his blasts? Surfer's are more concentrated, but just because of the size, that doesn't mean that they are weaker.

Getting punched by Spidey:


City busting blast? What? It only destroyed a block. Anyway, does Surfer not put out more energy than destroying a block?
An exploding gas station...
I also know that those ships in Annihilation were way bigger than blocks...

I know about the travel speed and such, but Firelord still reacts to people like Morg, Surfer, etc.

Surfer wouldn't have to move at all... also, Surfer would probably catch them all... nano second reflexes.

Pis then?
Just because he refused to use a blast, doesn't mean that that makes it reasonable for him to get his ass kicked the way he did.
It doesn't negate his duribility after all.

Surviving re-entry and crashing onto a planet?

I dunno...it's not much worse than what SM put him through.

I've also heard the "absorb the gas station" argument before. The heat, perhaps, but the explosion itself would have created an immense amount of cuncussive force. It's more like a bomb with some heat flames attached to it, rather than, say, a big flame thrower.

I would say re entry in to the earths atmosphere then crashing in to the planet is a lot worse than what Spider-man (dont forget the hyphon RESPECT STAN) put him through.

Originally posted by DigiMark007

Say you threw 100 daggers simultaneously at Spidey and Surfer, and asked them to catch as many as possible. I legitimately think SM would catch more. I don't see FL not being able to hit him in H2H combat as PIS....not at all.

...

Was the fight still a strech? Sure. But a low-ish showing from FL combined with a high-ish showing from Spidey (and yes, he was tired afterward), and FL refusing to use his nova blast, and it's not an illogical outcome.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
There is only one Omniverse in fiction and is the sum of all other Multiverses. We're not fictional characters.

That's what all fictional characters say.

Originally posted by Jyppe


You disagree?

Originally posted by Scoobless
That's what all fictional characters say.



Except Deadpool.

Omniverse = all universes within a reality. And I'm not about a talking comic-book reality (which is much smaller, hence the reasoning for having alternate realities.)

If you accept that Marvel = a reality, and an Omniverse = all multiverses/universes within a reality, then therefore the Omniverse as referenced by Marvel, refers to all multiverses/universes within Marvel.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Sorry, but Marvel isn't the authority on the Theory of an Omniverse.

Concerning "Marvel's Omniverse" they are.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
All your doing is taking their word.

Concerning their comic books, I have no choice.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Simply put...Marvel is wrong (wow, the shock!) All you do is post images as to what Marvel says. It doesn't work like that...here is a link in which it states differently:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_%28Marvel_Comics%29#Omniverse

Again, concerning Marvel Comics, I'll take Marvel's Facts on the matter, because Marvel created it so it's a Marvel Fact.

The Omniverse has been mentioned across many Titles, On Panel and solidified in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe v5 2006.

Excalibur was a team dedicated to roaming the Marvel Omniverse.

and on and on...


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Marvel does not have an Omniverse...It's simply just another Multiverse of Comics.

Actually they do.

I believe I posted the proof from the Official Hanbook, not Wiki.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
There is only one Omniverse in fiction and is the sum of all other Multiverses.

Nah friend, On Panel and in the Official Bio,

Marvel has it's own Omniverse and characters that guard and patrol the Omniverse regularly, characters that can affect the Omniverse, no way DC would allow Roma to have the authority to wipe out their Multiverse or even a single Universe in their company.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
We're not fictional characters. Comics on the other hand are..sorry..things don't generate out of Marvel Comics.

Simple.

dontgetit

Originally posted by DigiMark007
You disagree?




*raises hand*

I do.

For one, in your scenario, are they thrown simultaneously or sequentially?

If the latter, they both would catch all of them.

If the former, then the Surfer could catch them all, while Spidey would have trouble too far past ten or so.

But seriously, I'm curious, how could you believe that Spiderman has better reflexes than the Surfer? Does Spiderman regularly dodge meteor storms at the speed of light?

Originally posted by Soljer
*raises hand*

I do.

For one, in your scenario, are they thrown simultaneously or sequentially?

If the latter, they both would catch all of them.

If the former, then the Surfer could catch them all, while Spidey would have trouble too far past ten or so.

But seriously, I'm curious, how could you believe that Spiderman has better reflexes than the Surfer? Does Spiderman regularly dodge meteor storms at the speed of light?

Surfer can travel faster, obviously. But travel speed and reaction time are very different things. When has Surfer ever displayed the kind of reactions needed for, say, catching those 100 knives all at once? That's a Flash-type feat...not a herald feat.

Hell, Spidey has dodged concentrated blasts from Surfer, as well as many others who are in a similar class as him (FL, Thor, etc.)

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Surviving re-entry and crashing onto a planet?

I dunno...it's not much worse than what SM put him through.Do I really have to answer this?

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I've also heard the "absorb the gas station" argument before. The heat, perhaps, but the explosion itself would have created an immense amount of cuncussive force. It's more like a bomb with some heat flames attached to it, rather than, say, a big flame thrower. I remember bombs getting absorbed... numerous times in comics.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Surfer can travel faster, obviously. But travel speed and reaction time are very different things. When has Surfer ever displayed the kind of reactions needed for, say, catching those 100 knives all at once? That's a Flash-type feat...not a herald feat.

Hell, Spidey has dodged concentrated blasts from Surfer, as well as many others who are in a similar class as him (FL, Thor, etc.) I think you missed the part when Surfer goes head-on into meteor storms at over lightspeed and dodges them all...

Also, Spidey dodging Surfer's blasts (then gets hit by tons of streetlevels...), has more to do with:

That if he gets hit, he is out of comics.

Originally posted by bigbran
I think you missed the part when Surfer goes head-on into meteor storms at over lightspeed and dodges them all...

Also, Spidey dodging Surfer's blasts (then gets hit by tons of streetlevels...), has more to do with:

That if he gets hit, he is out of comics.

I still say that's travel speed, not just reaction time. It'd be like maneuvering a car through a forest as opposed to maybe catching ping pong balls in rapid successsion. Both are impressive, but they're different skills. Surfer doesn't have the same H2H speed as Spidey. Speedblitz could still work obviously, but I honestly think Surfer would be worse at doing something like dodging gunfire than Spidey if they were trapped inside an adamantium dome or somesuch.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
I still say that's travel speed, not just reaction time. It'd be like maneuvering a car through a forest as opposed to maybe catching ping pong balls in rapid successsion. Both are impressive, but they're different skills. Surfer doesn't have the same H2H speed as Spidey. Speedblitz could still work obviously, but I honestly think Surfer would be worse at doing something like dodging gunfire than Spidey. Imagine a car going down a big clearout at about... 200 mph.
Now imagine from the other side of the clear place, there are about 100 or so buses coming at the car, at about 30 mph.

Let's say that they make a straight line, and it is about 25 feet wide.
The car is coming at the buses, and the buses are coming at the car.

Dodge every bus...

Surfer does that every day, and he has to react to them.

He also has dem nano second reflexes...

Surfer also wouldn't have to dodge gunfire... but he does dodge laser fire...

*murble*

I will agree to disagree with you, good sir. Or at least to walk away when it seems like I could be wrong.



...

...spider-sense ftw.

Originally posted by Jyppe
That every new member is a sock of Whirly's

Agreed

Originally posted by Rick/Genis
Did anyone ever think I was a sock of Whirly when I came?

Aren't you one?

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Worng? Never heard of that one.

Son, I think you are going off of third party information that you don't know crap about. You're just having a hard time dealing with the truth.

Son, I'm amused you don't understand things can be altered retrogressively. I also suspect i've been reading comics for decades before your birth. For example the beating Darkseid got from Doomsday takes pace on page 34 onwards, Book 1 Hunter/Prey in the original first edition. DS has buried DD under a pile of rocks and turned his back on him thinking him beaten. "Impossible" DS says trying to turn as DD blindsides him Ds cannot react in time and takes a beating. Desaad calls Supes who arrives. However you fail to metion the blindsiding etc. in your account. Now the fact it wasn't Desaad does not mean it wasn't one of DS avatars. As we don't know if it was or not. We do have DS word that he was using them at this time later in Adventures of Superman. Around issue 645 if memory serves me correctly, it may no on that for the exact issue.

Anyway son, I notice you used the page numbers from the collected edition of Hunter/Prey in your scans indicating to me you don't have original first editions probably because these were thirteen years ago and you were still at primary school. Glad I cleared that up youngster. It's nice to see you youngsters picking up older comics even average stories like H/P in collected editions. Although it's not a story I would ever bother rereading as it is very mediocre.

Anyways lot's of people agree with me On this and other more adult boards junior. Marvel bias is a kind of fanboyism kiddo.

As for never hearing of the hype, it's about 10 places ahead of this one on the bigboards directory youngun.

Originally posted by Magee
I love how he accepts Spider-man beating firelord yet Superman holding his own with darkseid and hurting him must mean DS has been depowered. And the fact most of his appearances have been retconed as avatars still doesn't sway him.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Am I the only one who thinks Beta Ray Howard was reaching abit to try and disprove Draco's assertation that DS has using avatars since the 80s?

Originally posted by manorastroman
beta ray, if you're going to adopt the irritating masterstorm mode of calling everyone who disagrees with you "son" "kiddo" "junior" etc, you better get a hell of a lot more evidence on your side.

Originally posted by grey fox


I mean he wasn't affected by the company wide-retcon that was COIE , yet he's suddenly getting his ass kicked by weakened Supes ?

It's either clones or CHEEEEEEAP writing.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Sorry, but Marvel isn't the authority on the Theory of an Omniverse. All your doing is taking their word. Simply put...Marvel is wrong (wow, the shock!) All you do is post images as to what Marvel says. It doesn't work like that...here is a link in which it states differently:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse_%28Marvel_Comics%29#Omniverse

Marvel does not have an Omniverse...It's simply just another Multiverse of Comics. There is only one Omniverse in fiction and is the sum of all other Multiverses. We're not fictional characters. Comics on the other hand are..sorry..things don't generate out of Marvel Comics.

Simple.

Excellent post something I have seen argued by at least one other on these pages and so obviously true.

It's kind of unfair pitting the spider sense against the power cosmic. Different weight classes. We could say Firelord was ungodly jobbed and underpowered, or we could say he sucks. There's a reason why people have the term SM/FL. It's not quite as bad as say, squirrel girl, but it can still be called PIS.

As for the DS avatar debate, it's kind of obvious it was an avatar. For one thing, the pages Howard showed to dispute that made no sense from his point of view. But taken to mean that DS has, and is, using avatars, they make far more sense.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
As for the DS avatar debate, it's kind of obvious it was an avatar. For one thing, the pages Howard showed to dispute that made no sense from his point of view. But taken to mean that DS has, and is, using avatars, they make far more sense.

No it doesn't! Now you're just doing it because what you thought was correct isn't.

Read your own post:

"It's kind of obvious it was an avatar."

How is it obvious? Oh, wait, it's not. There's no mention of an avatar in the battle, and no mention of it afterwards.

Obvious = No.

"Made no sense from his point of view."

It makes plenty of sense to me. I've been reading comics for over ten odd years, and I understand retcons very well. I also know how to read, and since there is no reference to an avatar on that page, or any other after it, the only conclusion you can come to = no avatar.

"DS is using avatars makes more sense."

If you're a fanboy of the New Gods and don't want to admit that DC doesn't give a shit about that character, then sure! However, company politics suck. They wanted a DCU villain, and got lazy.

Don't you dare call me a liar again just because you can't back up an opinion you latched on to because someone made a character out to be more than they are.

Originally posted by The Libertine
Son, I'm amused you don't understand things can be altered retrogressively. I also suspect i've been reading comics for decades before your birth. For example the beating Darkseid got from Doomsday takes pace on page 34 onwards, Book 1 Hunter/Prey in the original first edition. DS has buried DD under a pile of rocks and turned his back on him thinking him beaten. "Impossible" DS says trying to turn as DD blindsides him Ds cannot react in time and takes a beating. Desaad calls Supes who arrives. However you fail to metion the blindsiding etc. in your account. Now the fact it wasn't Desaad does not mean it wasn't one of DS avatars.

Let's see here. First you were saying "It was an Avatar!" Now you're saying "oh, we don't know."

You're position is faltering because you can't back up your claims. Just admit you've lost.

It wasn't an avatar. There's no mention of an avatar. Any possibility of it being an avatar was retconned previously.

Originally posted by The Libertine
As we don't know if it was or not. We do have DS word that he was using them at this time later in Adventures of Superman. Around issue 645 if memory serves me correctly, it may no on that for the exact issue.

Hunter/Prey isn't mentioned as an avatar. He mentions he has used avatars in the past, but does not specifically say that Doomsday defeated an avatar.

You're guessing. Like I thought, you don't have anything conclusive.

You're still grasping at straws, and you're not improving. Nothing you've said holds water unless you have a DIRECT REFERENCE.

Originally posted by The Libertine
Anyway son, I notice you used the page numbers from the collected edition of Hunter/Prey in your scans indicating to me you don't have original first editions probably because these were thirteen years ago and you were still at primary school. Glad I cleared that up youngster. It's nice to see you youngsters picking up older comics even average stories like H/P in collected editions. Although it's not a story I would ever bother rereading as it is very mediocre.

Wow. A 13 year old brit trying to act like he's old.

Nice try, but nobody buys it. You're still grasping, and your lack of ability to back up your claims shows it.

Originally posted by The Libertine
Anyways lot's of people agree with me On this and other more adult boards junior. Marvel bias is a kind of fanboyism kiddo.

Another accusation you can't back up. Now you're really grasping.

You've lost. Just admit it and get over it. Just because your delusions of being correct in this argument feed your ego doesn't mean that's reality.

Sorry, but you're grasping, still.

You have no conclusive evidence. At all. Never did in the first place. You even conceded in the thread saying "Oh, well Doomsday can't be beat anyway."

You're beat like a dog. Give it up.

Originally posted by The Libertine
As for never hearing of the hype, it's about 10 places ahead of this one on the bigboards directory youngun.


Sure, Whirly. I bet it has on the many boards you've been banned from.

Go home and lick your wounds. Remember the day that Beta Ray Howard buried your ass.

By the way, the people that agree with you, some only half-agree, and others don't know what the hell they're talking about, a la Trickster and Magee. Both could be swayed easily.

Your inability to accept the truth shows your lack of maturiy, Whirly. The smilies and attitude have revealed you.

If I'm coming off as an ass, I'm sorry. The major problem I have is that people won't look at each side of the debate. They just assume, like Trickster did. It frustrates me to no end.

Then there's guys like Whirly, or Libertine, or Flame On! or whatever you want to call him, that are literally brick walls. Like Mider with a fraggin education. They latch on to what they think is right, even though it's not, and caudle it like a lullabye.

To both of you, and any other doubters, listen to me.

I went to experts about this. I soaked in both sides, and the side I took came from logicals debators who run other comic boards and are comic experts.

This is why we have misconceptions. People don't think that powerful characters can't have low feats. Well, it's the decision of the companies, not us.

What I think needs to happen is we need to accept what's on the page for what it is, because discarding information because we don't like it, and bathing it in the letters PIS takes away from the reality of the matter.

Digi, I'm beckoning you for something. Switch the debate rulings from CBR rules to something that's a bit more closer to the comic. If I can, can we discuss this over PM?

First off, I did listen to your case. You presented it well. I just happen to disagree with your interpretation. It's not that I didn't consider it, I just found it wanting in my estimation.

2nd, co-sign on the fanboys. Except for Libertine, I don't think he's quite that bad, at least, not yet.

Finally, as to your idea, I disagree. It's one thing for a character to have low feats, it's another for them to lose because of something that contradicts everything about their character. Like Logan stabbing Thanos w/e the IG. Good god, if that's not PIS, then what is? Or Namor chasing Apoc away with a table? Or the massive jobbing and PIS Apoc has received? Or SM/FL? Or any time Dr. Strange loses to someone under Thanos-level? Or Squirrel Girl?


You see what I'm getting at. There are some things meant as gag panels and not to be used in serious debate.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
First off, I did listen to your case. You presented it well. I just happen to disagree with your interpretation. It's not that I didn't consider it, I just found it wanting in my estimation.

2nd, co-sign on the fanboys. Except for Libertine, I don't think he's quite that bad, at least, not yet.

Finally, as to your idea, I disagree. It's one thing for a character to have low feats, it's another for them to lose because of something that contradicts everything about their character. Like Logan stabbing Thanos w/e the IG. Good god, if that's not PIS, then what is? Or Namor chasing Apoc away with a table? Or the massive jobbing and PIS Apoc has received? Or SM/FL? Or any time Dr. Strange loses to someone under Thanos-level? Or Squirrel Girl?


You see what I'm getting at. There are some things meant as gag panels and not to be used in serious debate.

Here's the problem: We don't have the right to say what is and is not applicable to the character. Here's an example:

Hulk should not beat Thor.

Well, in Marvel's mind, it's different. They want Hulk to be established as the Strongest there is. They've done a very good job of showing him as such. He's supposed to be unstoppable and unbeatable. That's the character. That's his purpose.

For Apocalypse, he was created to be an example of how egotism can destroy a person and make them lose a battle, thus why you see him run away all the time. That's the character. He lives by "those who fight and run away live to fight another day."

When it comes to Darkseid, it was DC's decision to switch him up. I guarantee that if you got the chance to interview one of the DC Bigwigs, they'd tell you their reasoning for powering Darkseid down was to make him a DC villain, primarily for Superman.

Is doing that shitting on Jack Kirby? You bet your virgin ass it is. However, let's consider this:

If you want to separate Darkseid from his current incarnation that by all means sucks from Darkseid of a different era, just do this:

Kirby Era Darkseid, Loeb Darkseid, Byrne Darkseid, etc. That way, everybody is happy. It's like saying Virtue and Vice Despero and Death of Superman Doomsday.

The best thing to do is put your personal opinion aside. I guarantee that Beta Ray Bill will fight Hulk someday, and lose. Do I think he should lose? Hell no. But he will, and that's okay. It's not gonna kill the character for me.

If you like Darkseid, that's cool. He's complex, his character is the perfect villain, and he's very ominous. He's pretty cool. Enjoy him for that, not his fluctuating power level.

One little thing to add that seals the deal for me as it being the real Darkseid is such:
http://i80.imagethrust.com/images/3z3x/view-image/doomsdayhunterprey-1pg-33.html

"If Apokalips is to be saved, I must take a more active role"

Stupid as it is, that's the Lord of the planet.

Just as an added bit, Doomsday returned sneak attack for sneak attack:
http://i80.imagethrust.com/images/3z3x/view-image/doomsdayhunterprey-1pg-33.html

Desaad, not Darkseid, sending Doomsday away:
http://i79.imagethrust.com/images/3z3K/view-image/doomsdayhunterprey-1pg-48.html
http://i80.imagethrust.com/images/3z3L/view-image/doomsdayhunterprey-1pg-49.html

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
One little thing to add that seals the deal for me as it being the real Darkseid is such:
http://i80.imagethrust.com/images/3z3x/view-image/doomsdayhunterprey-1pg-33.html

"If Apokalips is to be saved, I must take a more active role"

Stupid as it is, that's the Lord of the planet.

Just as an added bit, Doomsday returned sneak attack for sneak attack:
http://i80.imagethrust.com/images/3z3x/view-image/doomsdayhunterprey-1pg-33.html

Desaad, not Darkseid, sending Doomsday away:
http://i79.imagethrust.com/images/3z3K/view-image/doomsdayhunterprey-1pg-48.html
http://i80.imagethrust.com/images/3z3L/view-image/doomsdayhunterprey-1pg-49.html

It's simple junior, as i said we don't know if it's an avatar or not and I said this from the start from my first or second post in the matter. What we do know is Darkseid should have been in the Force Wall at about this time. I also said from the start it would have mattered because Darkseid could not have beaten DD beyond battlefield removal son. Yes he used a ranged attack on DS first of all. Which is as you say a sneak attack, however your beat down was an attack from behind. AS I said the Avatar retcon came long after Jurgens and Breeding so you're really arguing something which as I said along with others and has been argued on numerous other boards cannot be proved. Your young age shows in your lack of understanding for this. AS you don't understand comics Universes are constantly undergoing change where later writers are not happy with what was done by earlier writers. You're looking at an event which took place at a specific time within a comics Universe and as I said as far as that event is concerned Darkseid was beaten through an attack from behind. As far as modern continuity goes it's ambiguous as to if it was Darkseid or not. It's that simple.

It's just amusing how much you're reading into something ambigous and how much you want to prove something you can't. It's all so important hence your multiple posts proving nothing except an event in time. The DS character acts like DS why does that prove he's not an avatar, surely he's "in role". Afterall he doesn't directly attack DD anyway after using the Omega beams on him to knock him down he melts the rubble over him thinking to trap him. If we wanted to argue the logic of thses actions (which is silly) How would DS expect melted debris to trap DD?

If you really were the bane of this Whirlysplat he mut have been pretty young and stupid. Because I can't imagine you being the bane of much. I will say it's some hard on you have for him though.

Waits for the multitude of posts proving nothing. It's called retrogressive editing by authors of comics and pulps junior.

You've been reading comics for 10 years, so not very long then. I have a 13 year old copy of hunter/prey in front of me now.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
If I'm coming off as an ass, I'm sorry. The major problem I have is that people won't look at each side of the debate. They just assume.

Exactly and your assumptions have made an ass of you but not really me.

So much anger and hate in your posts, so much need, all that will be ignored. Sorry youngster it just shows your age.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
One little thing to add that seals the deal for me as it being the real Darkseid is such:
http://i80.imagethrust.com/images/3z3x/view-image/doomsdayhunterprey-1pg-33.html

"If Apokalips is to be saved, I must take a more active role"

Stupid as it is, that's the Lord of the planet.

Just as an added bit, Doomsday returned sneak attack for sneak attack:
http://i80.imagethrust.com/images/3z3x/view-image/doomsdayhunterprey-1pg-33.html

Desaad, not Darkseid, sending Doomsday away:
http://i79.imagethrust.com/images/3z3K/view-image/doomsdayhunterprey-1pg-48.html
http://i80.imagethrust.com/images/3z3L/view-image/doomsdayhunterprey-1pg-49.html

It's simple junior, as i said we don't know if it's an avatar or not and I said this from the start from my first or second post in the matter. What we do know is Darkseid should have been in the Force Wall at about this time. I also said from the start it wouldn't have mattered because Darkseid could not have beaten DD beyond battlefield removal son. Yes he used a ranged attack on DD first of all. Which is as you say a sneak attack, however your beat down was an attack from behind. AS I said the Avatar retcon came long after Jurgens and Breeding so you're really arguing something which as I said along with others and has been argued on numerous other boards cannot be proved. Your young age shows in your lack of understanding for this. AS you don't understand comics Universes are constantly undergoing change where later writers are not happy with what was done by earlier writers. You're looking at an event which took place at a specific time within a comics Universe and as I said as far as that event is concerned Darkseid was beaten through an attack from behind. As far as modern continuity goes it's ambiguous as to if it was Darkseid or not. It's that simple.

It's just amusing how much you're reading into something ambigous and how much you want to prove something you can't. It's all so important hence your multiple posts proving nothing except an event in time. The DS character acts like DS why does that prove he's not an avatar, surely he's "in role". Afterall he doesn't directly attack DD anyway after using the Omega beams on him to knock him down he melts the rubble over him thinking to trap him. If we wanted to argue the logic of thses actions (which is silly) How would DS expect melted debris to trap DD?

If you really were the bane of this Whirlysplat he mut have been pretty young and stupid. Because I can't imagine you being the bane of much. I will say it's some hard on you have for him though.

Waits for the multitude of posts proving nothing. It's called retrogressive editing by authors of comics and pulps junior.

You've been reading comics for 10 years, so not very long then. I have a 13 year old copy of hunter/prey in front of me now.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
If I'm coming off as an ass, I'm sorry. The major problem I have is that people won't look at each side of the debate. They just assume, like Trickster did. It frustrates me to no end.





Exactly and your assumptions have made an ass of you but not really me. Reposted to correct an error which affected the reading of the post.

Go to some of the bigger boards son, they's laugh at your assumptions for what they are.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Concerning "Marvel's Omniverse" they are.


Concerning their comic books, I have no choice.


Again, concerning Marvel Comics, I'll take Marvel's Facts on the matter, because Marvel created it so it's a Marvel Fact.

The Omniverse has been mentioned across many Titles, On Panel and solidified in the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe v5 2006.

Excalibur was a team dedicated to roaming the Marvel Omniverse.

and on and on...


Actually they do.

I believe I posted the proof from the Official Hanbook, not Wiki.


Nah friend, On Panel and in the Official Bio,

Marvel has it's own Omniverse and characters that guard and patrol the Omniverse regularly, characters that can affect the Omniverse, no way DC would allow Roma to have the authority to wipe out their Multiverse or even a single Universe in their company.




dontgetit

See, I think you don't understand or just don't want to understand. Neither Marvel nor DC can claim they have an Omniverse is an absolute contradiction in itself. There cannot be two Ominverses because that's a total contradiction of the word. Both and others are part of one and not many Ominverses.

You welcome to post as many scans as you want. You still just accepting what Marvel is saying to you. What Marvel is saying is wrong...period. Again, an Omniverse implies all multiverses in one. If Marvel claims that they do have an Omniverse is nothing but pure lack of writting and facts.

I'm glad you said "Concerning their comic books, I have no choice." No one does...that doesn't mean you have to accept everything they tell you. You have your own logic which tells you they're either wrong or they don't know what they're doing. If you want to accept it then I have a bridge to sell you.

It's simple.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
See, I think you don't understand or just don't want to understand. Neither Marvel nor DC can claim they have an Omniverse is an absolute contradiction in itself. There cannot be two Ominverses because that's a total contradiction of the word. Both and others are part of one and not many Ominverses.

You welcome to post as many scans as you want. You still just accepting what Marvel is saying to you. What Marvel is saying is wrong...period. Again, an Omniverse implies all multiverses in one. If Marvel claims that they do have an Omniverse is nothing but pure lack of writting and facts.

I'm glad you said "Concerning their comic books, I have no choice." No one does...that doesn't mean you have to accept everything they tell you. You have your own logic which tells you they're either wrong or they don't know what they're doing. If you want to accept it then I have a bridge to sell you.

It's simple.

Exactly, I love these event scans, they prove nothing but an event. How can a comic Multiverse which is really the writers Universe claim to be an all encompassing "Omniverse" it's frankly ludicrous. Which is why his thread all things cosmic is so silly.

Cosmic done right (i.e. Kirby's writing) are gorgeous to read. But when new writers want to change the laws...the whole thing goes down the tube. No suprises when they take their readers with them.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Cosmic done right (i.e. Kirby's writing) are gorgeous to read. But when new writers want to change the laws...the whole thing goes down the tube. No suprises when they take their readers with them.

I am going to agree and disagree. I agree Kirby = Beautiful, I think though sometimes change is good. I think different interpretations of time worn characters are also good. I think comics tend to reflect society and what people want. The kids in the 90's boom wanted Mcfarlane style shit and got just that. Now it's all got to be corrected as we are back to long term readers and readers who will be longterm readers in 10 or twenty years. My favourit underrated cosmic writer was Shooter. Everyone forgets big Jim the prodigy.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
See, I think you don't understand or just don't want to understand.

This is kind of amusing, you telling me I don't understand yet I posted evidence of Marvel's Omniverse, On Panel (in MANY Marvel titles) and in the Official Marvel Bio while back you brought a Wiki link to dispute that.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Neither Marvel nor DC can claim they have an Omniverse is an absolute contradiction in itself. There cannot be two Ominverses because that's a total contradiction of the word. Both and others are part of one and not many Ominverses.

I don't think you understand, (Marvel can do anything they want with their company)

Marvel has had an Omniverse since 1983, which was first explained in Marvel Superheroes #377.

The Omniverse was not part of the Mainstream Marvel Universe continuity at the time but it still existed under Marvel published books.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
here cannot be two Ominverses because that's a total contradiction of the word. Both and others are part of one and not many Ominverses.

But there isn't "two" Omniverses, the Official Marvel Bio of 2006 concerning the Omniverse, clearly says there is ONE Omniverse only.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7932/omniis1cz2.th.jpg

ALL the Universes, Multiverses and Megaverses in Marvel make up the Marvel Omniverse.


If DC or any other company has an Omniverse, that's on them.

All I know is that Marvel has it's own Omniverse for sure, MOST forum members that deal with the Cosmics Know this.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You welcome to post as many scans as you want. You still just accepting what Marvel is saying to you. What Marvel is saying is wrong...period.

No need to post further scans, I posted revelent Official scans from different Comic Books and the Bio itself,

and you still turned a blind eye and decided to pump your opinion in order to rewrite what Marvel has established over 2 decades ago.


btw, Marvel Superheroes and the rest of the Jaspers Warp saga was re-printed in July 1995, the Omniverse was an intrinsic part of the Maintream Marvel reality by then.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Again, an Omniverse implies all multiverses in one.

All Multiverses in Marvel, yes.

I don't know anything about DC's "Omniverse" or even if they have one.

I know they have a place called Hypertime, it's like an Omniverse I guess.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
If Marvel claims that they do have an Omniverse is nothing but pure lack of writting and facts.

How can Marvel publish facts that are false about they're own Cosmology?

What you're essentially saying is,

you don't like the FACT, that Marvel has it's own Omniverse, so Marvel has been publishing False On Panel evidence of an Omniverse, and all the Official Bios are full of it too.



eg.


Champion didn't obliterate an entire Planet with one punch because I said so.

But we all saw it happen, artistically depicted accompanied by character statements, and mentioned again in his Official Bio.

So what, I disagree so it's "nothing but pure lack of writting and facts"


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I'm glad you said "Concerning their comic books, I have no choice." No one does...that doesn't mean you have to accept everything they tell you.

If it's concerning their Comics, I do.

Or should I take your unsupprted opinion instead?


All you have to do is reference me to the issues where it's stated that the Marvel Omniverse is a Marvel Cosmic joke that has been getting pulled for over 2 decades. (then I'll take your word)

but if all you have is Wiki ...

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
You have your own logic which tells you they're either wrong or they don't know what they're doing.

Sorry friend,

no way will I ever take yours or anyone else's word over what Marvel has Officially established On Panel and in Bios about their company.

Originally posted by The Libertine
How can a comic Multiverse which is really the writers Universe claim to be an all encompassing "Omniverse" it's frankly ludicrous.

I challenge you to prove me wrong friend.

I challenge you to find any Marvel Comic Book that disputes what I'm saying.

I challenge you to find any Official Marvel Bio that disagrees with me.


Originally posted by The Libertine
Which is why his thread all things cosmic is so silly.

Don't just put down my efforts cause you're clueless about the Marvel Cosmology.


Please, I want you to shut me down, make me feel stupid with PROOF!

NOT with baseless TALK, but with On Panel illustrations depicted in Marvel Comics.


If you can't post scans, tell me the relevant issues that prove I'm talking out of my ass, and I'll post the scans for you, that way we can all see you're right and I'm wrong.

We'll also realize how "silly" my thread is.

Originally posted by Mr Master
This is kind of amusing, you telling me I don't understand yet I posted evidence of Marvel's Omniverse, On Panel (in MANY Marvel titles) and in the Official Marvel Bio while back you brought a Wiki link to dispute that.

I don't think you understand, (Marvel can do anything they want with their company)

Marvel has had an Omniverse since 1983, which was first explained in Marvel Superheroes #377.

The Omniverse was not part of the Mainstream Marvel Universe continuity at the time but it still existed under Marvel published books.

Again, you're taking what Marvel is saying. I'll repeat to you again..that Marvel isn't an authority on the theory of the Omniverse. Wiki on the other hand is implying a more accurate definition of the word. Which is why I continue to tell you that if you understand or not?

Marvel CAN claim anything they want. That doesn't mean they're right. To claim they have an Omniverse it's a blatant contraction.




Originally posted by Mr Master
But there isn't "two" Omniverses, the Official Marvel Bio of 2006 concerning the Omniverse, clearly says there is ONE Omniverse only.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7932/omniis1cz2.th.jpg

ALL the Universes, Multiverses and Megaverses in Marvel make up the Marvel Omniverse.


If DC or any other company has an Omniverse, that's on them.

All I know is that Marvel has it's own Omniverse for sure, MOST forum members that deal with the Cosmics Know this.

Exactly! Right there where I quoted you on red is exactly the point. Logically there cannot be TWO Omniverses. Now, bare with me...if Marvel claims that there aren't two Omniverses and they fully understand the definition of the of the word. Then by all means they can't say they have it. Instead they're just part of ONE single Omniverse in all Comics. Which makes them a Multiverse.

For years DC Comics states that they have Multiverses not Ominverses. Because there isn't such a thing as Omniverses. Marvel on the hand is clearly stating that by having an Omniverse... implies they don't know what they're doing or writing or don't even know what an Omniverse means.


Originally posted by Mr Master

I don't know anything about DC's "Omniverse" or even if they have one.

I know they have a place called Hypertime, it's like an Omniverse I guess.

How can Marvel publish facts that are false about they're own Cosmology?

What you're essentially saying is,

you don't like the FACT, that Marvel has it's own Omniverse, so Marvel has been publishing False On Panel evidence of an Omniverse, and all the Official Bios are full of it too.

Because there isn't a DC Omniverse. There isn't a Marvel Omniverse. There isn't a Image Omniverse. Understand they're Multiverses of a single Omniverse.

I don't like the fact that Marvel is inproperly using the Theory of a Omniverse. That's what I don't like.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Or should I take your unsupprted opinion instead?


All you have to do is reference me to the issues where it's stated that the Marvel Omniverse is a Marvel Cosmic joke that has been getting pulled for over 2 decades. (then I'll take your word)

but if all you have is Wiki ...

Hold on, I gave you Wiki as independent source. All you giving here is what Marvel says.

That is incredible bias. Do you have ANY other source outside of Marvel Comics that can prove your debate?



Originally posted by Mr Master
Sorry friend,

no way will I ever take yours or anyone else's word over what Marvel has Officially established On Panel and in Bios about their company.

Don't take it....don't accept what I'm saying. But if you think you're right as far as what an Omniverse is...then you're wrong. Sorry, that's how it works. If you trully understand the definition of the word. You wouldn't be debating.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Hold on, I gave you Wiki as independent source. All you giving here is what Marvel says.

Atleast Marvel is a Comic Book company, .... Wiki?


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
That is incredible bias.

"Bias?"


I'm not trying to tell you what Omniverse means to the scientific community, or DC or anything else,

I was stating what the Omniverse is according to Marvel in Marvel related Comic Books.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Do you have ANY other source outside of Marvel Comics that can prove your debate? .

Do you have ANY Comic related credible sources of ANY kind that disproves what I'm saying about Marvel?


Look my whole point was not to influence your personal understanding of the Omniverse or any "Verse" for that matter.

I was simply clearing the MISCONCEPTION that other Comic Book Companies share the Marvel Omniverse. (that's all)


If every other Comic Book Company is One part of an Omniverse, that's fine.

But MARVEL, has it's own independent Omniverse = all "Verses" in Marvel, and this has absolutely Nothing to do with other Companies.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Atleast Marvel is a Comic Book company, .... Wiki?




"Bias?"


I'm not trying to tell you what Omniverse means to the scientific community, or DC or anything else,

I was stating what the Omniverse is according to Marvel in Marvel related Comic Books.




Do you have ANY Comic related credible sources of ANY kind that disproves what I'm saying about Marvel?


Look my whole point was not to influence your personal understanding of the Omniverse or any "Verse" for that matter.

I was simply clearing the MISCONCEPTION that other Comic Book Companies share the Marvel Omniverse. (that's all)


If every other Comic Book Company is One part of an Omniverse, that's fine.

But MARVEL, has it's own independent Omniverse = all "Verses" in Marvel, and this has absolutely Nothing to do with other Companies.

You simply don't get what Wrathful Dwarf is saying. It doen't require sources he has logic on his side. Others have noticed what he is trying to say previously. It can't have it's own Omniverse as that would be all encompassing.



Some in this thread kind of argue it as well.

www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=421509

Marvel uses its own definition of an Omniverse.

It is the Omniverse of Marvel. Therefore it encompasses all of MARVEL.

Of course it is not an Omniverse in the traditional sense but Omniverse is still the word that Marvel comics uses to descibe the sum total of every Marvel multiverse.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Marvel uses its own definition of an Omniverse.

It is the Omniverse of Marvel. Therefore it encompasses all of MARVEL.

Of course it is not an Omniverse in the traditional sense but Omniverse is still the word that Marvel comics uses to descibe the sum total of every Marvel multiverse.

As Wrathful Dwarf is trying to explain that's fine but it doesn't make the Marvel "Omniverse" a true "Omniverse" or bigger than the DC multiverse. Which existed even after Crisis in a publication sense as we had Wildstorm cross overs.

WD's logic is perfect on this, one no silly out of context scans can argue with. If you understand what an Omniverse is, WD is right MM is wrong. It's that simple.

Originally posted by The Libertine
As Wrathful Dwarf is trying to explain that's fine but it doesn't make the Marvel "Omniverse" a true "Omniverse" or bigger than the DC multiverse. Which existed even after Crisis in a publication sense as we had Wildstorm cross overs.

WD's logic is perfect one no silly out of context scans can argue with.

The word Marvel uses is Omniverse. So the entirety of Marvel is properly refered to as an Omniverse.

Using actual defintion of Omniverse Marvel does not have one.

The problem is not Digi's logic it's Marvel's redefinition of Omniverse for thier purposes.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The problem is not Digi's logic it's Marvel's redefinition of Omniverse for thier purposes.

What's wrong with my logic?!



...

...anyway, I think you meant WD.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
What's wrong with my logic?!



...

...anyway, I think you meant WD.



Sorry. (all you mods look the same to me )

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The word Marvel uses is Omniverse. So the entirety of Marvel is properly refered to as an Omniverse.

Using actual defintion of Omniverse Marvel does not have one.

The problem is not Digi's logic it's Marvel's redefinition of Omniverse for thier purposes.

Which WD is not arguing. He is stating when fans use this wrong definition like Mr Master to try and say all other comics Universes are in this "Ominiverse" of Marvel (which is not an Omniverse at all) They are wrong. WD is right it's that simple.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
What's wrong with my logic?!


Nothing i'm sure How long have you got?

Originally posted by The Libertine
He is stating when fans use this wrong definition like Mr Master to try and say all other comics Universes are in this "Ominiverse" of Marvel

When did MM say everyother comic Universe is in Marvel's Omni/Uni/Multi/Polyverse?

Originally posted by The Libertine
Which WD is not arguing. He is stating when fans use this wrong definition like Mr Master to try and say all other comics Universes are in this "Ominiverse" of Marvel (which is not an Omniverse at all) They are wrong. WD is right it's that simple.

Um... didn't Mr. Master say that he was trying to disprove the misconception that Marvel's omniverse encompasses the multiverses of other companies?

"But MARVEL, has it's own independent Omniverse = all "Verses" in Marvel, and this has absolutely Nothing to do with other Companies." That's what he said just 10 posts above this one.

Originally posted by Ize19
Um... didn't Mr. Master say that he was trying to disprove the misconception that Marvel's omniverse encompasses the multiverses of other companies?

"But MARVEL, has it's own independent Omniverse = all "Verses" in Marvel, and this has absolutely Nothing to do with other Companies." That's what he said just 10 posts above this one.

Well the one who propagated the idea it might have was him. As WD stated Omniverse means it would encompass everything. So if it doesn't as he says it's not an Omniverse. Marvel are using the word wrong as already established. Ize 19 you have a very low thread count form September! Only 26 posts! Are you Whirly!

Originally posted by The Libertine
Well the one who propagated the idea it might have was him. As WD stated Omniverse means it would encompass everything. So if it doesn't as he says it's not an Omniverse. Marvel are using the word wrong as already established. Ize 19 you have a very low thread count form September! Only 26 posts! Are you Whirly!

Nah, I just tend to read more than I post, that's all.

Originally posted by Ize19
Nah, I just tend to read more than I post, that's all.

That's cool.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I challenge you to prove me wrong friend.

I challenge you to find any Marvel Comic Book that disputes what I'm saying.

I challenge you to find any Official Marvel Bio that disagrees with me.




Don't just put down my efforts cause you're clueless about the Marvel Cosmology.


Please, I want you to shut me down, make me feel stupid with PROOF!

NOT with baseless TALK, but with On Panel illustrations depicted in Marvel Comics.


If you can't post scans, tell me the relevant issues that prove I'm talking out of my ass, and I'll post the scans for you, that way we can all see you're right and I'm wrong.

We'll also realize how "silly" my thread is.

Wow. That should cement it that it's Whirly.

Seriously, the inability to handle truth, the lack of maturity, the constant use of the smilie, and now flaming Mr. Master because he disagrees with Galactic Storm.

Do we need anymore proof?
http://www.jalife.net/up/files/Ban%20Him.jpg

Anyway, seems that Mr. Master has it down pat.

For the Record,


in MARVEL and MARVEL alone, the Cosmology ...



Ok ready ...



Once upon a time
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/8058/et1ug3.th.jpg

there was a Universe
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5724/et2el6.th.jpg

(This is called Eternity)




Eternity was born as one Infinite Universe, and then became an Infinite number of Universes
http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7421/multieternity16do.th.jpg
"and where ONE Eternity would ensure a Boundless Universe, a MULTI-Eternity would ensure a Boundless MULTI-verse"

(This is called Multi-Eternity)





A collection of Multi-Eternitys or Multiverses is a Megaverse
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/9741/ltrules2lu3.th.jpg
"Two SIBLINGS whom the Tribunal has a place for in HIS great scheme of things"


"the REALMS with a Multiverse" (excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006)
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7932/omniis1cz2.th.jpg
"Within the Omniverse, collections of associated REALMS from different Multiverses are referred to as Megaverses"

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006)
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/1328/omniis2yp2.th.jpg
"the Living Tribunal also helped fashion the twin Entities the BROTHERS, each of whom became the guardian of a different Megaverse, within the larger Omniverse but encompassing MORE than a single Multiverse"

(this is called the Brothers - POST Retcon)




Finally we have the Omniverse (There it is ON PANEL)

ALL the UNI/MULTIverses in Marvel
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9923/omni2cn6.th.jpg
http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/211/omni3uj8.th.jpg
Merlyn and Roma are the Guardians of the Marvel Omni-verse

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/7106/r2ef3.th.jpg
"from this venue, the Guardian of Reality can view events on EVERY PLANE of the OMNIVERSE"




This is just to stomp out the misconception that Marvel's Omniverse is related to any other Comic Book company.

A little more: Tonight I'll try to clear up some Hulk misconceptions.

Like I said before, Mr. Master has this on lock. Nice job, man.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Wow. That should cement it that it's Whirly.

Seriously, the inability to handle truth, the lack of maturity, the constant use of the smilie, and now flaming Mr. Master because he disagrees with Galactic Storm.

Do we need anymore proof?
http://www.jalife.net/up/files/Ban%20Him.jpg

Anyway, seems that Mr. Master has it down pat.

No one has flamed Mr Master I have agreed with a mod about the "term" Omniverse. Omniverse has to be all encompassing which the Marvel "Multiverse" is not. Also you didn't understand what was posted about retogressive alteration, that's cool, education will help you. It's cool you have a hard on for this Whirly as well I suspect his laughing his head off. Is that why all those people were calling you Marcus junior. Oh I forgot Marcus had trouble with hardons according to lots of other members in a thread I read, I don't know him so I can't comment. Like Whirly he was banned long before you or I joined, or so you say.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
A little more: Tonight I'll try to clear up some Hulk misconceptions.

Like I said before, Mr. Master has this on lock. Nice job, man.

WD is right, Mr Master is wrong it's that simple.

Originally posted by The Libertine
WD is right, Mr Master is wrong it's that simple.



Actually both of them are right.

The problem lies in Marvel's egotism.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Actually both of them are right.

The problem lies in Marvel's egotism.



Hmm, it can't be an Omiverse though even if they want to call it that as WD said. It's that simple. No scans required.

Originally posted by The Libertine
Hmm, it can't be an Omiverse though even if they want to call it that as WD said.



Yeah . . . thats what I just said.

Marvel has an Omniverse that is not really an omniverse. The term omniverse was used incorrectly by Marvel.

MrMaster is correct Marvel exists in what they call an Omniverse even though it isn't really the omniverse.

So the term Omniverse is correct when refering to all of Marvel even though Marvel is not using the correct definition.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yeah . . . thats what I just said.

Marvel has an Omniverse that is not really an omniverse. The term omniverse was used incorrectly by Marvel.

MrMaster is correct Marvel exists in what they call an Omniverse even though it isn't really the omniverse.

So the term Omniverse is correct when refering to all of Marvel even though Marvel is not using the correct definition.

It's not correct though because as WD said it's not an Omniverse.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
See, I think you don't understand or just don't want to understand. Neither Marvel nor DC can claim they have an Omniverse is an absolute contradiction in itself. There cannot be two Ominverses because that's a total contradiction of the word. Both and others are part of one and not many Ominverses.

You welcome to post as many scans as you want. You still just accepting what Marvel is saying to you. What Marvel is saying is wrong...period. Again, an Omniverse implies all multiverses in one. If Marvel claims that they do have an Omniverse is nothing but pure lack of writting and facts.

I'm glad you said "Concerning their comic books, I have no choice." No one does...that doesn't mean you have to accept everything they tell you. You have your own logic which tells you they're either wrong or they don't know what they're doing. If you want to accept it then I have a bridge to sell you.

It's simple.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Again, you're taking what Marvel is saying. I'll repeat to you again..that Marvel isn't an authority on the theory of the Omniverse. Wiki on the other hand is implying a more accurate definition of the word. Which is why I continue to tell you that if you understand or not?

Marvel CAN claim anything they want. That doesn't mean they're right. To claim they have an Omniverse it's a blatant contraction.






Exactly! Right there where I quoted you on red is exactly the point. Logically there cannot be TWO Omniverses. Now, bare with me...if Marvel claims that there aren't two Omniverses and they fully understand the definition of the of the word. Then by all means they can't say they have it. Instead they're just part of ONE single Omniverse in all Comics. Which makes them a Multiverse.

For years DC Comics states that they have Multiverses not Ominverses. Because there isn't such a thing as Omniverses. Marvel on the hand is clearly stating that by having an Omniverse... implies they don't know what they're doing or writing or don't even know what an Omniverse means.




Because there isn't a DC Omniverse. There isn't a Marvel Omniverse. There isn't a Image Omniverse. Understand they're Multiverses of a single Omniverse.

I don't like the fact that Marvel is inproperly using the Theory of a Omniverse. That's what I don't like.



Hold on, I gave you Wiki as independent source. All you giving here is what Marvel says.

That is incredible bias. Do you have ANY other source outside of Marvel Comics that can prove your debate?





Don't take it....don't accept what I'm saying. But if you think you're right as far as what an Omniverse is...then you're wrong. Sorry, that's how it works. If you trully understand the definition of the word. You wouldn't be debating.

It's common sense WD, it's that easy! Marvel may call it an Omniverse but it's not!

Originally posted by The Libertine
It's not correct though because as WD said it's not an Omniverse.

It's common sense WD, it's that easy! Marvel may call it an Omniverse but it's not!

Let me put this in simple terms



FidelCastro's title was President

FidelCastro was a Dictator (ie not a president)

The proper thing to call FidelCastro was still President



Do you see how the concept applies to this argument?

Marvel calls itself an Omniverse

Marvel is not an omniverse

The proper thing to call Marvel is still an Omniverse

Because WrathfulDwarf is the expert on Marvel continuity.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Let me put this in simple terms



FidelCastro's title was President

FidelCastro was a Dictator (ie not a president)

The proper thing to call FidelCastro was still President



Do you see how the concept applies to this argument?

Marvel calls itself an Omniverse

Marvel is not an omniverse

The proper thing to call Marvel is still an Omniverse

The more proper way to describe Fidel Castro is to call him a "leader". See, simple definitions fit just well.

And as I already mention Marvel is just anotherMultiverse..there is no point in going back or repeating the same arguement.



He is still using The Marvel Handbook. It's pointless to argue any further with him. It's just like when someone uses the Bible to explain how it all began and refutes any other arguement. He'll continue to thump us with the Marvel Handbook.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
And as I already mention Marvel is just anotherMultiverse..there is no point in going back or repeating the same arguement.

Actually Marvel has an Infinite Number of Multiverses and the sum of those Multiverses make up the Marvel Omniverse.


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
He is still using The Marvel Handbook.

I see you're still using ...

what are you using?


Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
It's pointless to argue any further with him. It's just like when someone uses the Bible to explain how it all began and refutes any other arguement.

Concerning the Bible?


Having the Bible on hand>>>>>Bibleless with pinions, speculations and theories.


That's how it applies to us here.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
He'll continue to thump us with the Marvel Handbook.

And you'll continue to thump us with ...

Still can't figure out your source of information that disputes what I posted concerning the Marvel cosmology.


Your argument is,

Marvel has no Omniverse cause I said so.

Proof?

No, I said so.

As you wish then.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
The more proper way to describe Fidel Castro is to call him a "leader". See, simple definitions fit just well.



The title he took was President.

Marvel wants to call it an omniverse . . . why the hell do you want to argue the semantics of the name they chose?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos


The title he took was President.

Marvel wants to call it an omniverse . . . why the hell do you want to argue the semantics of the name they chose?

Which makes him a leader.

As for Marvel...I happen to disagree heavily. I'm sure you disagree in a lot of things. Hope you understand.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf

As for Marvel...I happen to disagree heavily. I'm sure you disagree in a lot of things. Hope you understand.

Yeah I get where you're coming from and I'm not willing to argue this ad infinitum.

We need a new misconception to occupy people.

The misconception that bricks can beat Doomsday. (Not counting Juggs....... )

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yeah I get where you're coming from and I'm not willing to argue this ad infinitum.

We need a new misconception to occupy people.


http://www.killermovies.com/forums/441353_1-this-is-what-happens-when-you-grasp-at-straws

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
The misconception that bricks can beat Doomsday. (Not counting Juggs....... ) The misconception that Juggs can beat Doomsday

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
The misconception that Juggs can beat Doomsday

Juggernaut could take Doomsday. Juggs would fare much better than Hulk.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Juggernaut could take Doomsday. Juggs would fare much better than Hulk.

Hulk would get pwned.

And Juggs would lose, eventually.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Hulk would get pwned.

But so would Juggs.

Oh the uneducated youth.

Hunter/Prey Doomsday, yeah. He's a different beast entirely. DOS Doomsday, Doomsday Rex, OWAW Doomsday would lose.

Hard to gauge Hunter/Prey Doomsday, and why he was so much weaker in his appearance afterwards. Might have been writer wank.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Oh the uneducated youth.

Hunter/Prey Doomsday, yeah. He's a different beast entirely. DOS Doomsday, Doomsday Rex, OWAW Doomsday would lose.

Hard to gauge Hunter/Prey Doomsday, and why he was so much weaker in his appearance afterwards. Might have been writer wank.

You have a bad habit of attempting to patronize those who happen to disagree with your opinion. Don't. Just Don't.

And, Juggs might win against a couple of those. But, you take DD's average vs. Juggs average (seeing as woth DD, theres hardly ever a standard level), and thats a firm loss for Juggernaut. Especially considering he isn't confirmed to be back to his 'classic power levels'.

How would Juggs beat doomsday....didn't he already die via physical?

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
You have a bad habit of attempting to patronize those who happen to disagree with your opinion. Don't. Just Don't.

So, I can't comment on the fact that you're younger than me, Smurph?

Chill man.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
And, Juggs might win against a couple of those. But, you take DD's average vs. Juggs average (seeing as woth DD, theres hardly ever a standard level), and thats a firm loss for Juggernaut. Especially considering he isn't confirmed to be back to his 'classic power levels'.

I'm making reference to classic Juggs. Current would get f#@%stomped as far as I can tell.

Poor current Juggy. He'll be getting punked by Class 25-ers before long..

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Poor current Juggy. He'll be getting punked by Class 25-ers before long..

No kiddin.

Anyway, here's some good misconceptions about The Hulk:

Hulk cannot bend Adamantium:

Well, he does here:
http://files.photojerk.com/Jonathanos/STRENGTH/Ock-IH396c.jpg
http://files.photojerk.com/Jonathanos/STRENGTH/Ock-IH396c.jpg

and he's also dented Ultron during Secret Wars, etc.

Hulk cannot build rage quickly:

This isn't really true either, unless applied to Grey Hulk in the Daytime.
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2618/daytimeweakness9fk.jpg

One thing to remember about Hulk is that he's got a temper. Building rage isn't much of a problem. During Peter David's run with Professor Hulk, he could actually increase his strength through willpower, essentially by making himself mad. (In my opinion, that version of Hulk may have been the strongest)

So, anyone else got Hulk questions that they're not so sure about? I'd like to quell the myths. It's pretty fun.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
So, I can't comment on the fact that you're younger than me, Smurph?

Chill man.

Meh. It's just not the first time I've seen you refer to someone as 'junior, young one' etc. Perhaps you don't mean it, but it can sound slightly demeaning or derrogatory.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
I'm making reference to classic Juggs. Current would get f#@%stomped as far as I can tell.

Well, according to Newjak (I think it was him...) Juggs has obtained the gem once again and is being amped back up to classic levels... I don't know if he's there yet though.

Does he really bend Ock's arms though, or is it just maneuvering them? The scan is kinda hard to interpret.

And Ock's arms have been said to be many things (regualr metal, reinforced titanium (the most frequent one), low-grade adamantium, high-grade adamantium). It's one of the unfortunate aspects of his character....the writers rarely do their homework.

So does the scan specifically say adamantium?....because my screen makes it smaller and it's hard to see the text.

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Does he really bend Ock's arms though, or is it just maneuvering them? The scan is kinda hard to interpret.

And Ock's arms have been said to be many things (regualr metal, reinforced titanium (the most frequent one), low-grade adamantium, high-grade adamantium). It's one of the unfortunate aspects of his character....the writers rarely do their homework.

So does the scan specifically say adamantium?....because my screen makes it smaller and it's hard to see the text.

Whoops. Forgot the second scan:
http://files.photojerk.com/Jonathanos/STRENGTH/Ock-IH396d.jpg

I believe at about that time Ock's tentacles were made out of adamantium.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Meh. It's just not the first time I've seen you refer to someone as 'junior, young one' etc. Perhaps you don't mean it, but it can sound slightly demeaning or derrogatory.


Not this time around. It just seemed to me that you may not know a lot about Hulk. There's much hatred for him around these parts.

Originally posted by SpunkySmurph
Well, according to Newjak (I think it was him...) Juggs has obtained the gem once again and is being amped back up to classic levels... I don't know if he's there yet though.

Hmmm. Well, I guess we'll have to see if he really is.

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
There's much hatred for him around these parts.

It's xmeats' fault. baby

Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
Whoops. Forgot the second scan:
http://files.photojerk.com/Jonathanos/STRENGTH/Ock-IH396d.jpg

I believe at about that time Ock's tentacles were made out of adamantium.

Hmm. Still an impressive feat, but tying up arms that bend and curve anyway might not count as a "bending adamantium" feat. But that's my view of it.

Wouldn't it be more like overcoming the Doc Ock's strength to maneuver them in a way he doesn't want, they're flexible..? ermm

I think any time adamantium has ever been so much as damaged slightly, it was a lower grade type. I don't believe the kind of adamantium that makes up Wolverine's skeleton has ever been damaged in continuity.

Unless you count Ult. wolverine. Hulk ripped him apart. though, it may have just been the joints breaking, rather than the metal.