THe LT vs. Micheal the Arc Angel

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nvrbeenwthagirl
Discuss.

Beta Ray Howard
http://www.jalife.net/up/files/Ban%20Him.jpg

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
http://www.jalife.net/up/files/Ban%20Him.jpg confused

Symmetric Chaos
Wasn't thumbs down let him live?

guy222
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Discuss.

Good thread. Being a fan of Living Tribunal. I still say he wins, but Michael is close

Kutulu
The only time I recall seeing Michael get beat was when God himself decided to eat him, and when Lucifer Morningstar used him to make a multiverse (which is debated if it was a multiverse versus universe, but that's another thread).

Michael handed the Spectre his ass when he tried to cross into the gates of Heaven.

I am going to go with Michael on this one.

Thanos_THOTU
Lucifer with Michael's power would stalemate in my oppinion.
But Michael alone, he don't have the intelligence.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Lucifer with Michael's power would stalemate in my oppinion.
But Michael alone, he don't have the intelligence.
Lucifer with Micheals power would be God. Stalemate? confused

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Lucifer with Micheals power would be God. Stalemate? confused
The same God that said that there were forces even external to him?

Beta Ray Howard
Michael is a walking inconsistancy. An Omnipotent being would not need external force to create.

If he exited and entered any other universe, he's cease to exist due to the fact that he can't exist outside of a universe that isn't a paradox within itself.

LT wins.

bigbran
Micheal... wins... hands down.

Board Walker
Anyone who is saying that Michael does not win, does not know what they are talking about.

Michael takes this effortlessly 10/10

Jax_Jax
micheal for the win

thtadthtshldntb
Michael wins this 10/10.

swerve1988
LT doesn't even have to bother with this chump.....he calls APOC to handle this deed

Thanos_THOTU
Lucifer was confirmed to be second only to the Presence.
Presence >> Lucifer > Michael
TOAA >> Living Tribunal

don't shiv
Michael baby.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Lucifer was confirmed to be second only to the Presence.
Presence >> Lucifer > Michael
TOAA >> Living Tribunal

Your logic is all wrong. Just becuz The LT is the 2nd most powerful being in marvel does not make him equal to the 2nd most powerful being in DC. If The God of DC has 100 points of power and the 2nd most powerful being in DC has 99 points of power and the God of Marvel has 100 points of power and the LT has 75 points of power, that does not make them equal. The distance between the DC character is closer to God than the Marvel One. Michael is the power of God. He's as close as you can get. He's like a living heart of the universe. Lucifer is 2nd to God in the vertigo universe. Same Megaverse, Not some universe. Also The source is under Michael in power and yet still above the LT in power. The Spectre would be third after the source and yet can be stronger than every body as he is the only being in comics to actually be able to merge with his God.

nimbus006
So your saying their are 3 possibly 4 beings in DC more powerful than the 2nd most powerful being in Marvel?

How do you know that?

I don't buy how someone can compare the two. When it comes to beings with existential power such as Michael, Lucifer, LT etc... it is really hard to guage which one comes first in a hiearchy. What evidence do you have to prove that in a "fight" (if thats even what you would call a battle between any of these beings) Michael or LT would be more powerful than the other? They are both the top of the food chain in their respective Universes. What Michael can blink a Universe out of existence faster? To me its all a load of crap and not worth debating about ridiculous omnipotent beings such as these.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by nimbus006
So your saying their are 3 possibly 4 beings in DC more powerful than the 2nd most powerful being in Marvel?

How do you know that?

I don't buy how someone can compare the two. When it comes to beings with existential power such as Michael, Lucifer, LT etc... it is really hard to guage which one comes first in a hiearchy. What evidence do you have to prove that in a "fight" (if thats even what you would call a battle between any of these beings) Michael or LT would be more powerful than the other? They are both the top of the food chain in their respective Universes. What Michael can blink a Universe out of existence faster? To me its all a load of crap and not worth debating about ridiculous omnipotent beings such as these.

Being at the top of your food chain in your universe does not make you equal to the top of the food chain from another. Micheal most assuredly is more powerful than the LT as he is a living Heart of the Universe. I would wager that the LT all by himself would have a battle to fight all of DC's Higher ups. Micheal, Lucifer, the Spectre, Mr. Mxy, the Ultimator are all with in the wrealm of power that make them Unable to beaten by the likes of anything less than God's power.

Board Walker
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Being at the top of your food chain in your universe does not make you equal to the top of the food chain from another. Micheal most assuredly is more powerful than the LT as he is a living Heart of the Universe. I would wager that the LT all by himself would have a battle to fight all of DC's Higher ups. Micheal, Lucifer, the Spectre, Mr. Mxy, the Ultimator are all with in the wrealm of power that make them Unable to beaten by the likes of anything less than God's power.

LT has been defeated by the HOTU

Nvr is correct, it is inaccurate to say that the second most powerful entity of one universe is equal to the second most powerful entity of another.

By the way Thanos_HOTU, it is not Lucifer>Michael

Two displays of this, if we go by Vertigo, then his daughter who essentially became him, surpassed Lucifer and became god, she literally became Yaweh's equal; why does this matter? Because it was Michael's power which did this.

Most importantly Vertigo is not canon as it contradicts main DC storyline, the cannon Michael is the one who appears in mainstream DC and if we go by that then he effortlessly man handled a raging spectre.

Now Marvel and DC have both in the past shown Spectre and LT to be equals, so I equate them as such.

In other words Michael>Lucifer>Spectre=LT

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Being at the top of your food chain in your universe does not make you equal to the top of the food chain from another. Micheal most assuredly is more powerful than the LT as he is a living Heart of the Universe. I would wager that the LT all by himself would have a battle to fight all of DC's Higher ups. Micheal, Lucifer, the Spectre, Mr. Mxy, the Ultimator are all with in the wrealm of power that make them Unable to beaten by the likes of anything less than God's power.
Explain why? -- Lucifer (w/ Michael's power) created a universe, that is his prime feature.
LT neutralized the infinity gems, you know the once that when Thanos had it he stated: All universes are but clay in my hand.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Explain why? -- Lucifer (w/ Michael's power) created a universe, that is his prime feature.
LT neutralized the infinity gems, you know the once that when Thanos had it he stated: All universes are but clay in my hand.

Micheal of the MAIN DCU soundly trumped the Spectre who was at his height in power.

nimbus006
Originally posted by Board Walker
LT has been defeated by the HOTU

Nvr is correct, it is inaccurate to say that the second most powerful entity of one universe is equal to the second most powerful entity of another.



Then why do you say TOAA is equal to The Presence?

All Im saying is its incredicbly difficult to compare such powerful beings.

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by nimbus006
Then why do you say TOAA is equal to The Presence?
Yewhew is actually a lot weaker than the supreme being of Marvel, or even DC.

Here's God (Yewhew) in the Vertigo universe, confirming that there is powers external even to his, that created him.

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/7208/lucifer75p34py1eq3.th.jpg

The Onle-Above-All (Supreme being) = The Unknow Forces (Supreme being)
LT (2nd only to the supreme being) = Presence

Aye?

nimbus006
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Yewhew is actually a lot weaker than the supreme being of Marvel, or even DC.

Here's God (Yewhew) in the Vertigo universe, confirming that there is powers external even to his, that created him.

http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/7208/lucifer75p34py1eq3.th.jpg

The Onle-Above-All (Supreme being) = The Unknow Forces (Supreme being)
LT (2nd only to the supreme being) = Presence

Aye?

They are saying that it is inaccurate to assume that the 2nd most powerful being in Marvel is equal to the 2nd most powerful being in DC. So I'm asking with that logic applied, then why do people assume that the first most powerful being in Marvel is equal to the first most powerful being in DC.

The answer is we don't know. And i think that's the point these are beings who are suppose to be beyond are understanding.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by nimbus006


The answer is we don't know. And i think that's the point these are beings who are suppose to be beyond are understanding.

In a very large way, i can completely understand what your getting at

Since these beings are obviously drawn to real life parallels, its hard to gauge the true extent of thier powers as compaired to each other. And how would you? Who can create the most alternate universes? Who can throw a solar system the farthest? now to a POINT, you can gauge thier upwards by what they ahve done, but ultimately its not like they are ina state of constant creation and power, as most of thier nature is conceptual and implied. But in saying, it leaves alot to be wondered.

Sometimes i guess you could compare them relative to their own universes, but i dont know if this is the case here

nimbus006
Originally posted by ExtraMision5555
In a very large way, i can completely understand what your getting at

Since these beings are obviously drawn to real life parallels, its hard to gauge the true extent of thier powers as compaired to each other. And how would you? Who can create the most alternate universes? Who can throw a solar system the farthest? now to a POINT, you can gauge thier upwards by what they ahve done, but ultimately its not like they are ina state of constant creation and power, as most of thier nature is conceptual and implied. But in saying, it leaves alot to be wondered.

Sometimes i guess you could compare them relative to their own universes, but i dont know if this is the case here

Thats exactly what Im saying. Yes maybe one has a higher on panel feat than the other, but perhaps that's b/c the other has not had the need to perform such a feat. Remember these beings are not like regular characters that have difinitive powers and limits. They answer only to the Supreme being in their own Universes.

Thank you for understanding my point.

guy222
Originally posted by Board Walker
LT has been defeated by the HOTU

Nvr is correct, it is inaccurate to say that the second most powerful entity of one universe is equal to the second most powerful entity of another.

By the way Thanos_HOTU, it is not Lucifer>Michael

Two displays of this, if we go by Vertigo, then his daughter who essentially became him, surpassed Lucifer and became god, she literally became Yaweh's equal; why does this matter? Because it was Michael's power which did this.

Most importantly Vertigo is not canon as it contradicts main DC storyline, the cannon Michael is the one who appears in mainstream DC and if we go by that then he effortlessly man handled a raging spectre.

Now Marvel and DC have both in the past shown Spectre and LT to be equals, so I equate them as such.

In other words Michael>Lucifer>Spectre=LT

Michael has been compared to Tribunal. HOTI doesn't exist. Tribunal does. Didn't Lucifier have fits with Great Darkness? To me, all this rambling is quite pointless. Marvel has TOAA, Living Tribunal. DC has Presence, Spectre. That's a fact. Vertigo has there all powerful ppl. Lets include MoM.

Board Walker
My point was, that the LT has had its limits, HOTU defeated him, and he was unable to defeat Korvac, secondly he questioned, even if for a momment if he had the power to take the IG (which he ultimately did).

Vertigo is not cannon as it directly contradicts mainstream DC on multiple points and continuity.

Yaweh is not the supreme being of DC, the Presence is.

Now as for Michael, his cannon showings in mainstream DC have shown he has no limit, he effortlessly manhandled a blood lusted Spectre like an ant.

Now what has been shown is that the Spectre and LT are equals.

My point is that the Presence>Michael>Lucifer>Spectre=LT

nimbus006
Originally posted by Board Walker
My point was, that the LT has had its limits, HOTU defeated him, and he was unable to defeat Korvac, secondly he questioned, even if for a momment if he had the power to take the IG (which he ultimately did).

Vertigo is not cannon as it directly contradicts mainstream DC on multiple points and continuity.

Yaweh is not the supreme being of DC, the Presence is.

Now as for Michael, his cannon showings in mainstream DC have shown he has no limit, he effortlessly manhandled a blood lusted Spectre like an ant.

Now what has been shown is that the Spectre and LT are equals.

My point is that the Presence>Michael>Lucifer>Spectre=LT

So your saying Michael is more comparable to what THOTU use to be?

Board Walker
Originally posted by nimbus006
So your saying Michael is more comparable to what THOTU use to be?

I cannot say without speculating at this point Nimbus, HOTU was shown that it makes the user literally a multiverse and only a multiverse.

DC Michael on the otherhand, I do not know what his limit is.

The reason I do not compare Michael to LT or HOTU, is because both of the LT and the HOTU has been shown it has a limit; Michael has not.

guy222
Originally posted by Board Walker
My point was, that the LT has had its limits, HOTU defeated him, and he was unable to defeat Korvac, secondly he questioned, even if for a momment if he had the power to take the IG (which he ultimately did).

Vertigo is not cannon as it directly contradicts mainstream DC on multiple points and continuity.

Yaweh is not the supreme being of DC, the Presence is.

Now as for Michael, his cannon showings in mainstream DC have shown he has no limit, he effortlessly manhandled a blood lusted Spectre like an ant.

Now what has been shown is that the Spectre and LT are equals.

My point is that the Presence>Michael>Lucifer>Spectre=LT

I like The One Above All>Living Tribunal. Presence>Spectre. Living Tribunal and Spectre said to equal. I know Michael for some has been compared to Living Tribunal. One Above All=Presence. Living Tribunal=Spectre. Michael and Lucifier everyone can differ

Board Walker
Originally posted by guy222
I like The One Above All>Living Tribunal. Presence>Spectre. Living Tribunal and Spectre said to equal. I know Michael for some has been compared to Living Tribunal. One Above All=Presence. Living Tribunal=Spectre. Michael and Lucifier everyone can differ

I like your way of wording, you do so in such a way where you clearly present your stance and opinion, but you do not blatantly force it upon others.

guy222
Originally posted by Board Walker
I like your way of wording, you do so in such a way where you clearly present your stance and opinion, but you do not blatantly force it upon others.

I appreciate that. Very kind. We all value are characters. Its hard to really determine who wins and loses. Living Tribunal to me is everything. Have a good one smile

nimbus006
Originally posted by Board Walker
I cannot say without speculating at this point Nimbus, HOTU was shown that it makes the user literally a multiverse and only a multiverse.

DC Michael on the otherhand, I do not know what his limit is.

The reason I do not compare Michael to LT or HOTU, is because both of the LT and the HOTU has been shown it has a limit; Michael has not.

I see your point. But just because we haven't seen Michael's limits doesn't mean he doesnt have them. If he didn't what would seperate him from God?

Board Walker
Originally posted by nimbus006
I see your point. But just because we haven't seen Michael's limits doesn't mean he doesnt have them. If he didn't what would seperate him from God?

DC loosely relates to the bible and many other philosophies and religions, the name Michael means "Who is as/like God".

Just putting that out there.

nimbus006
Yes wiki-pedia is an informative site stick out tongue , however we know he isn't literally god...correct? By that fact we can assume he does have some limit.

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by nimbus006
They are saying that it is inaccurate to assume that the 2nd most powerful being in Marvel is equal to the 2nd most powerful being in DC. So I'm asking with that logic applied, then why do people assume that the first most powerful being in Marvel is equal to the first most powerful being in DC.

The answer is we don't know. And i think that's the point these are beings who are suppose to be beyond are understanding.
What are they retarded or something?

Through the crossovers it's allways stated that they're equal (if the one lacks something, it's superior in something else, such as cosmic power and magic)
But powerwise they're allways equal.

Not Like nvrbeenwthagrl claims:
Lucifer > Michael > Ultimator > Spectre > Superman > Lois Lame >> Livving Tribunal

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by Board Walker
My point was, that the LT has had its limits, HOTU defeated him, and he was unable to defeat Korvac, secondly he questioned, even if for a momment if he had the power to take the IG (which he ultimately did).

Vertigo is not cannon as it directly contradicts mainstream DC on multiple points and continuity.

Yaweh is not the supreme being of DC, the Presence is.

Now as for Michael, his cannon showings in mainstream DC have shown he has no limit, he effortlessly manhandled a blood lusted Spectre like an ant.

Now what has been shown is that the Spectre and LT are equals.

My point is that the Presence>Michael>Lucifer>Spectre=LT
The heart was the power of the Supreme being ...
Korvac was wierd, a lot of PIS ...

Compare that to Superman beating Darkseid, or better, Spectre giving Batman the Bat-kick.

Thanos_THOTU
Living Tribunal "Omnipotent", "And no one shares his omniscient perspective"
He's as smart as Lucifer, and probably as powerful as Michael.

Now you claimed that Yewhew =/= Presence

And Michael and Lucifer is aspects of Yewhew.

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by Board Walker
DC loosely relates to the bible and many other philosophies and religions, the name Michael means "Who is as/like God".

Just putting that out there.
Yeah, and Lucifer means Light bringer / Light bearer ...
But even in the Bible, even the original in Latin God's omnipotence had flaws, the Bible is an old fiction ...

nimbus006
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Yeah, and Lucifer means Light bringer / Light bearer ...
But even in the Bible, even the original in Latin God's omnipotence had flaws, the Bible is an old fiction ...

Its very true, many of those translations cannot be taken literally.

Mider999
can you people not insult religion........huh.......thanks

anyway didnt the spectre say lucifer was stronger then him and lucifer and micheal are as strong as each other arent they.

nimbus006
Who is insulting relegion? Im not insulting anything. All im saying is traslations get screwed up over time.

ExtraMision5555
the bible is infallible

but anyways, back on subject

i agree with the fact that simly becuse thier is someone above michael, you can assume that he is stronger than him
atleast, i always thought thats waht that inferred

Board Walker
Originally posted by nimbus006
Yes wiki-pedia is an informative site stick out tongue , however we know he isn't literally god...correct? By that fact we can assume he does have some limit.

That is speculation, nothing has even shown to hint that he has a weakness.

Vertigo is not cannon (this is directed at THOTU), Michael's cannon showings are only in mainstream DC. His showings have been all limitless and top tier, he simply handled a fully blood lusted Spectre as though Spectre were an ant.

LT=Spectre

Michael>Spectre=LT

As of right now that is how it stands, LT has been shown it has limits. The HOTU made its wearer a multiverse, nothing more as it was shown when Thanos was a multiverse he could see the other multivereses, he was just one of them among the countless; the point is that Thanos with the HOTU defeated LT, meaning Multiverse>LT.

This points to that their is likely one LT per multiverse.

DC cannon Michael > Multiverse

manorastroman
this thread is so stupid i had to drive home and **** my wife just to deal with it.

nimbus006
A being without any limits whatsoever is for all intense and purposes supreme. Are you saying Michael is the Supreme being in the DC Universe?

nimbus006
Originally posted by manorastroman
this thread is so stupid i had to drive home and **** my wife just to deal with it.

I agree entirely... at least one of us got laid today smokin'

Board Walker
Originally posted by nimbus006
A being without any limits whatsoever is for all intense and purposes supreme. Are you saying Michael is the Supreme being in the DC Universe?

You have to rememebr DC does not work the same way that Marvel does, even though Vertigo is not cannon is does show what I am speaking of.

Michael and Lucifer both had the potential and ability to become "god" and in the end Michael did so. You might be thinking wasn't it Ellaine who became "god"? Not so, Ellaine is made from Michael's essence, Michael then toward the end gave her his "essence" in doing so she became "god" his literall equal; this is actually shown on panel.

My point with that was this, just because their is a supreme being in DC, does not mean their is only one potential supreme being in DC? Do you understand what I am trying to convey?

Its akin to Marvel as well, their might be no supreme being, just a endless heiarchy of beings.

It is silly to think that TOAA or the presence is the be all and end all of all supremecy untill shown so.

ExtraMision5555
Originally posted by nimbus006
I agree entirely... at least one of us got laid today smokin' laughing laughing

nimbus006
Originally posted by Board Walker
You have to rememebr DC does not work the same way that Marvel does, even though Vertigo is not cannon is does show what I am speaking of.

Michael and Lucifer both had the potential and ability to become "god" and in the end Michael did so. You might be thinking wasn't it Ellaine who became "god"? Not so, Ellaine is made from Michael's essence, Michael then toward the end gave her his "essence" in doing so she became "god" his literall equal; this is actually shown on panel.

My point with that was this, just because their is a supreme being in DC, does not mean their is only one potential supreme being in DC? Do you understand what I am trying to convey?

Its akin to Marvel as well, their might be no supreme being, just a endless heiarchy of beings.

It is silly to think that TOAA or the presence is the be all and end all of all supremecy untill shown so.

I dunno I guess your right. Im done with this topic, its giving me a headache...

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by Board Walker
That is speculation, nothing has even shown to hint that he has a weakness.

Vertigo is not cannon (this is directed at THOTU), Michael's cannon showings are only in mainstream DC. His showings have been all limitless and top tier, he simply handled a fully blood lusted Spectre as though Spectre were an ant.

LT=Spectre

Michael>Spectre=LT

As of right now that is how it stands, LT has been shown it has limits. The HOTU made its wearer a multiverse, nothing more as it was shown when Thanos was a multiverse he could see the other multivereses, he was just one of them among the countless; the point is that Thanos with the HOTU defeated LT, meaning Multiverse>LT.

This points to that their is likely one LT per multiverse.

DC cannon Michael > Multiverse
Spectres power vaires, it can be from Presence power to slightly more powerful than Shazam.
Depends on who's hosting him, and by how much.

Michael defeated a hostless Spectre.

Mider999
still it was a spectre who owned hell didnt he as well as heavens armies, look how strong asmodel is on his own yet he wanted the power of the spectre

bigbran
Lucifer=Micheal>>Spectre (probably more, considering the two times Micheal whooped the shit out of Spectre).

HOTU>>Micheal=Lucifer>>Living Tribunal.

Simple really.

draxx_tOfU
DCU

1. the Presence
2. Michael/Lucifer
3. the Spectre

MARVEL

1. TOAA
2. the Living Tribunal

...the rest is debateable...

guy222
Originally posted by draxx_tOfU
DCU

1. the Presence
2. Michael/Lucifer
3. the Spectre

MARVEL

1. TOAA
2. the Living Tribunal

...the rest is debateable...

I agree with marvel. TOAA>LivingTribunal

Nikkolas
The cosmic Judge of all multiverses who can hold collections of them in his hand wins over Michael. DC isn't even close to as strong as Marvel in cosmics.

Omniverse >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of DCU.

Lord Urizen
LT for the win

bigbran
Originally posted by Nikkolas
The cosmic Judge of all multiverses who can hold collections of them in his hand wins over Michael. DC isn't even close to as strong as Marvel in cosmics. Multi-verses, multi-verse, doesn't matter... even though, I am almost certain that there are no "multiverseS"...
Based on a statement that was made about him, and there being more chessboards? I really have never heard of LT guarding the Omni-verse though (comics, ya know). Ya... really.

I do agree though... because DC DOESN'T have cosmics like Marvel.

What is Lucifer/Micheal? Not f*cking cosmic.
What is Spectre? Not f*cking cosmic.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Omniverse >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all of DCU.Whatever... so what you would be saying is that, Marvel>>etc, DC, basically? Meh, whatever, doesn't matter really, because it still has nothing to do with LT's power. Based on your arguement, or where you are getting it from:

I>>>>>>A wild Tiger, because I am watching/guarding it?

Also, yes, whatever, LT is above single BEINGS below TOAA. But, what happened when Thanos gained HOTU?
...
Wait, why didn't LT stop Thanos from gaining the HOTU? LT should be able to see, and stop this, since he is obviously>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Omni-Verse, shouldn't he have? You also can't pull the "Manipulated by God" card either, since LT attacked him.
So what? What exactly happened?

Also... Heaven>>>>>>>>>>>>>Marvel Multi-Verse, and what does Micheal guard (In DC)?

Also, before I get the DC lover attack... it should be known that Marvel is my favorite company.

I wonder if any of this made any sense...

guy222
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
LT for the win

i agree

King Kandy
LT is assigned to keep order against threats by TOAA... He is a law maker and Judge, whearas Michael is a guard/Soldier.

I don't think LT will be allowed to lose by the powers-that-be.

bigbran
Originally posted by King Kandy
LT is assigned to keep order against threats by TOAA... He is a law maker and Judge, whearas Michael is a guard/Soldier.

I don't think LT will be allowed to lose by the powers-that-be. God's Wrath... nuff said? No? God's Wrath got his salad tossed against Micheal...




































Twice!

King Kandy
Originally posted by bigbran
God's Wrath... nuff said? No? God's Wrath got his salad tossed against Micheal...




































Twice!
Gods Wrath was at that time... Unemployed.

LT is a favored in the hierarchy, he is of importance supreme over all others aside from the creators.

Nikkolas
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.jpg



They sure aren't compared to the things Marvel has.

Thanos w/HOTU > them.
PR Beyonder > them.

Marvel cosmics are in a whole other league than DC.



Marvel has an infinite number of multiverses.

So...yes, it does pown DC.



Because it's Starlin Thanos and that's probably why it's not canon. At least I don't think it is.

Starlin Thanos is nothing but wank.



Marvel omniverse > DC multiverses.

No one cares about Heaven or Hell.

King Kandy
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Because it's Starlin Thanos and that's probably why it's not canon. At least I don't think it is.

Starlin Thanos is nothing but wank.
... Most Thanos is Starlin.

bigbran
Originally posted by King Kandy
Gods Wrath was at that time... Unemployed.

LT is a favored in the hierarchy, he is of importance supreme over all others aside from the creators. Twice?

In Marvel of course...
In DC/Vertigo, Lucifer/Micheal are second to God too.
Basically, you are trying to cancel out Micheal, by ignoring his status.
Except... Micheal doesn't get his ass pawned by something in the universe that was what he was supposed to judge/guard...

Everything of course, but he still should have been able to stop teh Thanos!!!!1 Was he sleeping during this time?
Reed Richards must be outside LT's watch... the same as Lucifer (pretty sure Micheal can too) can go outside of God's influence...

Don't get me wrong, I like LT, but against people like Lucifer, and Micheal... no, not happening.

A lot of things are flawed in this "hierarchy" of the forum too. IG being able to solo both brothers comes to mind right away.

I may not flaunt all my "supposed" knowledge, but I do know some things. I also don't believe a lot of this say, hype? Yes, LT has a fancy title. Yes LT has one showing of someone else saying that he is the guard of "Multiverses", but with no substance, it is a tough one to back up.
On the other hand, the "fallen" brother, Lucifer, has feats of him going outside God's influence, making the Source Wall seem, say "afraid". I'll let someone else explain the Source Wall.

Micheal wins, Lucifer would beat him. Each one beats the IG.

King Kandy
Originally posted by bigbran
Twice?

In Marvel of course...
In DC/Vertigo, Lucifer/Micheal are second to God too.
Basically, you are trying to cancel out Micheal, by ignoring his status.
Except... Micheal doesn't get his ass pawned by something in the universe that was what he was supposed to judge/guard...

Everything of course, but he still should have been able to stop teh Thanos!!!!1 Was he sleeping during this time?
Reed Richards must be outside LT's watch... the same as Lucifer (pretty sure Micheal can too) can go outside of God's influence...

Don't get me wrong, I like LT, but against people like Lucifer, and Micheal... no, not happening.

A lot of things are flawed in this "hierarchy" of the forum too. IG being able to solo both brothers comes to mind right away.

I may not flaunt all my "supposed" knowledge, but I do know some things. I also don't believe a lot of this say, hype? Yes, LT has a fancy title. Yes LT has one showing of someone else saying that he is the guard of "Multiverses", but with no substance, it is a tough one to back up.
On the other hand, the "fallen" brother, Lucifer, has feats of him going outside God's influence, making the Source Wall seem, say "afraid". I'll let someone else explain the Source Wall.

Micheal wins, Lucifer would beat him. Each one beats the IG.
TOAA needed to get rid of THOTU, it had Thanos do it. LT's death was a necesarry part of that grand plan.

THOTU was like a tumor on Gods scale.

bigbran
Originally posted by Nikkolas
http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/2994/lt2cm.jpg So, I was wrong about the person who said it. Big deal. I admit, I move on.

Still doesn't change the fact that there is no solid evidence of these "multiverses".



Originally posted by Nikkolas
They sure aren't compared to the things Marvel has.

Thanos w/HOTU > them.
PR Beyonder > them.

Marvel cosmics are in a whole other league than DC. And?
Aren't those two people also, say, way above LT? Good comparison, don't you think?

Also, a funny thing. Pr Beyonder doesn't EXIST anymore. And, HOTU was an item... not really cosmics...



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Marvel has an infinite number of multiverses.

So...yes, it does pown DC. Based on what, chessboards, and theory?
Does this mean that Captain Britain just destroyed a multiverse?
http://images6.theimagehosting.com/albums/22776/Excalibur 47_p18.th.jpg



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Because it's Starlin Thanos and that's probably why it's not canon. At least I don't think it is.

Starlin Thanos is nothing but wank. It is indeed canon to Thanos, Warlock, and LT. It is even debatable if it is canon.
Hell, even Genis, Strange, etc, mentioned events from Infinity Abyss in The: End.



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Marvel omniverse > DC multiverses.

No one cares about Heaven or Hell. No... because Heaven ISN'T the place where GOD, the SUPREME BEING resides or anything...

King Kandy
It doesn't matter where God resides.

Nikkolas
Not very interested in what Michael was supposed to be... Stranger could have been the fourth face of the LT. Stranger = LT? Not really. Michael isn't God so...don't care.



LT does what TOAA wants. If LT's destruction was what TOAA wanted...that's what happened.



Lt is the power of multiverses. Is Michael or Lucifer?



TOAA, by feats, is far and above God iN Vertigo. There is no beyond God's sight in MU. It's an omniverse and everything in it is under TOAA. Not all omniotents are created equal.

Where did Lucifer have to be to be "beyond" God? Another universe?



So does LT. In fact, LT > multiverse. So..there ya go.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Not very interested in what Michael was supposed to be... Stranger could have been the fourth face of the LT. Stranger = LT? Not really. Michael isn't God so...don't care.



LT does what TOAA wants. If LT's destruction was what TOAA wanted...that's what happened.



Lt is the power of multiverses. Is Michael or Lucifer?



TOAA, by feats, is far and above God iN Vertigo. There is no beyond God's sight in MU. It's an omniverse and everything in it is under TOAA. Not all omniotents are created equal.

Where did Lucifer have to be to be "beyond" God? Another universe?



So does LT. In fact, LT > multiverse. So..there ya go.

curious, do you actually know anythng about dc cosmics,feats and items of power?

Nikkolas
And why, may I ask, is Lucifer and Michael above Spectre? Spectre is the divine wrath of God and actually merged with Presence once. That makes him a multiverse unto himself.

When did Lucifer or Michael have that sort of power? Lucifer was manipulated down into Hell by God.

And again, all omnipotents are not created equal.



Yes, yes I do. Because I've read about...2 or 3 other LT vs. Lucifer topics on other forums.

I realize this is not LT vs. Lucifer but still. I'm not making brash assumptions. I ask if something is right or wrong. That's why I asked where Lucifer had to go to be "beyond" God.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Nikkolas
And why, may I ask, is Lucifer and Michael above Spectre? Spectre is the divine wrath of God and actually merged with Presence once. That makes him a multiverse unto himself.

When did Lucifer or Michael have that sort of power? Lucifer was manipulated down into Hell by God.

And again, all omnipotents are not created equal.



Yes, yes I do. Because I've read about...2 or 3 other LT vs. Lucifer topics on other forums.

I realize this is not LT vs. Lucifer but still. I'm not making brash assumptions. I ask if something is right or wrong. That's why I asked where Lucifer had to go to be "beyond" God.


Mike is quite literally the power of God. And Lucifer is the will of God. Spectre is god's wrath. THe power and the will are above the wrath.

King Kandy
LT is more important then Spectre or Michael...

He is gods judgement.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by King Kandy
LT is more important then Spectre or Michael...

He is gods judgement.

Um No. Marvel and dc HAVE MADE QUITE CLEAR that lt and spectre are equals. Lucifer and mike both own spectre. The LT can't operate outside of God's will. Michael is God's power he's equal to the heart of the universe which owned the LT. Lucifer is God's will and can resist even God's wants. the LT is not more important. what would god be without his will or power?

King Kandy
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Um No. Marvel and dc HAVE MADE QUITE CLEAR that lt and spectre are equals. Lucifer and mike both own spectre. The LT can't operate outside of God's will. Michael is God's power he's equal to the heart of the universe which owned the LT. Lucifer is God's will and can resist even God's wants. the LT is not more important. what would god be without his will or power?
They made it QUITE CLEAR in a non-canon crossover which has no bearing on our discussion.

He wouldn't be much without his will or power. But he still has those things without Lucifer and Michael. He had those qualities before he created them, and he had those qualities after he created them.

My point is that TOAA will not allow LT to lose to Michael, wheras Michael gets no external powers from The Presence.

TOAA will see Michael as a foreign invader, as apposed to Thanos who he saw as a way to fix a problem. If TOAA wanted Thanos to be stopped, then LT wouldn't have lost that battle.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by King Kandy
They made it QUITE CLEAR in a non-canon crossover which has no bearing on our discussion.

He wouldn't be much without his will or power. But he still has those things without Lucifer and Michael. He had those qualities before he created them, and he had those qualities after he created them.

My point is that TOAA will not allow LT to lose to Michael, wheras Michael gets no external powers from The Presence.

TOAA will see Michael as a foreign invader, as apposed to Thanos who he saw as a way to fix a problem. If TOAA wanted Thanos to be stopped, then LT wouldn't have lost that battle.

Your argument is silly. The One above all didn't stop the beyonder from owning everyone and everything. your bascally saying mike would be fighting toaa since he won't allow the LT to lose. Get that sht out of here.

King Kandy
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Your argument is silly. The One above all didn't stop the beyonder from owning everyone and everything. your bascally saying mike would be fighting toaa since he won't allow the LT to lose. Get that sht out of here.
TOAA wasn't really... Fleshed out when Beeyonder was around.

Beyonder didn't really mess things up to much, he erased Death but that problem got fixed on it's own.

TOAA is prepared to defend his Omniverse from the evil creature of the Presence.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by King Kandy
TOAA wasn't really... Fleshed out when Beeyonder was around.

Beyonder didn't really mess things up to much, he erased Death but that problem got fixed on it's own.

TOAA is prepared to defend his Omniverse from the evil creature of the Presence.

Which has nothng to do with this thread. you just hate the fact that every one agrees that michael wins this.

King Kandy
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Which has nothng to do with this thread. you just hate the fact that every one agrees that michael wins this.
Not everyone agrees that. Or else this thread wouldn't be five pages long. It's all debating.

TOAA will not allow LT to lose to this foreign infector.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by King Kandy
Not everyone agrees that. Or else this thread wouldn't be five pages long. It's all debating.

TOAA will not allow LT to lose to this foreign infector.

Your basically trying to make ths a TOAA vs. Michael thread. and that is not what it is. And ths fght takes place in a neutral ground. Michael isn't invading anythng. get that shit out of here.

King Kandy
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Your basically trying to make ths a TOAA vs. Michael thread. and that is not what it is. And ths fght takes place in a neutral ground. Michael isn't invading anythng. get that shit out of here.
... You're right. That's a futile argument.

From now on all my arguments will be made on FEATS, not Importence or Hierarchy.

And based on FEATS, LT wins.

Mider999
based on feats spectre is equal to LT and based on feast micheal beats up on spectre and lucifer morningstar always looks upon him as inferiour

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by King Kandy
... You're right. That's a futile argument.

From now on all my arguments will be made on FEATS, not Importence or Hierarchy.

And based on FEATS, LT wins.

LOL. based on feats, the LT loses. He lost to his universes equiv of Michael. THOtU=Michael. >>>>>>>>>>>>The LT. and yeah Michael beat a full powered Spectre Twice.

King Kandy
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
LOL. based on feats, the LT loses. He lost to his universes equiv of Michael. THOtU=Michael. >>>>>>>>>>>>The LT. and yeah Michael beat a full powered Spectre Twice.
Where the hell are you getting Michael=THOTU from?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by King Kandy
Where the hell are you getting Michael=THOTU from?

THOTU is the power of TOAA. Michael is the power of the PResence. Nuff said.

King Kandy
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
THOTU is the power of TOAA. Michael is the power of the PResence. Nuff said.
Where are you getting that THOTU is TOAA's power from?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by King Kandy
Where are you getting that THOTU is TOAA's power from?

It beat the Lt. if it is not the power of TOAA then michael would be superior to it as he IS the power of the presence. I thnk Mike and THOTU are equal. this is my opinion based on feats and what's stated on panel

Nikkolas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elaine_Belloc

It says Michael's power being released merely made one universe.

Is it wrong? Can you prove it wrong with soem scans or quotes or something?

guy222
Originally posted by Nikkolas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elaine_Belloc

It says Michael's power being released merely made one universe.

Is it wrong? Can you prove it wrong with soem scans or quotes or something?

I will post the wiki article that states Michael is compared to Living Tribunal.

guy222
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It beat the Lt. if it is not the power of TOAA then michael would be superior to it as he IS the power of the presence. I thnk Mike and THOTU are equal. this is my opinion based on feats and what's stated on panel

Look at Knightmare 6. Gives u an insight about HOTI. Proving to me all Thanos did was defeat M bodies. BTW, Thanos is planning something cunning again. I bet u the farm, he will lose again

LORDSIDIOUS01
Originally posted by guy222
Look at Knightmare 6. Gives u an insight about HOTI. Proving to me all Thanos did was defeat M bodies. BTW, Thanos is planning something cunning again. I bet u the farm, he will lose again

What the f**k?

is knight 6. sidious says lt wins over mike

Thanos_THOTU
Presence >> Yewhew > Lucifer + Michael
TOAA >> Living Tribunal

So the Living Tribunal is higher up in the heirarchy.
2nd only to the One-Above-All.

--

And the Living Tribunal have greater feats, nullifying the power of the power of the Infinity gems, which were far greater than the Ultimate Nullifier that destroyed the Multiverse.
And the Nullifier was far greater than the Cosmic Cube, which were superior to Beyonder who had the power to destroy the Multiverse.

LT > IG > I-IG > UN > CC > Beyonder > Multiverse
LT >>>>>> Multiverse

While Lucifer with Michael's power combinded created "one" universe.
Lucifer + Michael > Universe
Multiverse > Universe

So feat-wise, the Living Tribunal owns them, in the hierarchy he owns them, in looks he owns them (common he's a golden pimp with three faces)

King Kandy
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Presence >> Yewhew > Lucifer + Michael
TOAA >> Living Tribunal

So the Living Tribunal is higher up in the heirarchy.
2nd only to the One-Above-All.

--

And the Living Tribunal have greater feats, nullifying the power of the power of the Infinity gems, which were far greater than the Ultimate Nullifier that destroyed the Multiverse.
And the Nullifier was far greater than the Cosmic Cube, which were superior to Beyonder who had the power to destroy the Multiverse.

LT > IG > I-IG > UN > CC > Beyonder > Multiverse
LT >>>>>> Multiverse

While Lucifer with Michael's power combinded created "one" universe.
Lucifer + Michael > Universe
Multiverse > Universe

So feat-wise, the Living Tribunal owns them, in the hierarchy he owns them, in looks he owns them (common he's a golden pimp with three faces)
The cosmic cubes are only stronger then post-retcon beyonder... Who isn't strong enough to destroy the multiverse.

King Kandy
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It beat the Lt. if it is not the power of TOAA then michael would be superior to it as he IS the power of the presence. I thnk Mike and THOTU are equal. this is my opinion based on feats and what's stated on panel
So just because it beat LT, it's the power of TOAA? Where are you getting that from?

Thanos_THOTU
Post-retcon Beyonder

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/584/beot5cv0.jpg

Thanos_THOTU
Note: All "Multiverses" ... The past ... The present ... Theyet to be ... Will all be destroyed!

King Kandy
What issue was that in? What are the circumstances?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Nikkolas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elaine_Belloc

It says Michael's power being released merely made one universe.

Is it wrong? Can you prove it wrong with soem scans or quotes or something?

U do realize that there are two michaels. one vertigo and one mainsteam

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
Presence >> Yewhew > Lucifer + Michael
TOAA >> Living Tribunal

So the Living Tribunal is higher up in the heirarchy.
2nd only to the One-Above-All.

--

And the Living Tribunal have greater feats, nullifying the power of the power of the Infinity gems, which were far greater than the Ultimate Nullifier that destroyed the Multiverse.
And the Nullifier was far greater than the Cosmic Cube, which were superior to Beyonder who had the power to destroy the Multiverse.

LT > IG > I-IG > UN > CC > Beyonder > Multiverse
LT >>>>>> Multiverse

While Lucifer with Michael's power combinded created "one" universe.
Lucifer + Michael > Universe
Multiverse > Universe

So feat-wise, the Living Tribunal owns them, in the hierarchy he owns them, in looks he owns them (common he's a golden pimp with three faces)

Ur logic is faulty. Being 2nd in ur own multiverse does not make you more powerful than the third of another. it is also plainly obvious that you do not understand that there are TWO VERSIONS OF MICHAEL, ONE WHO IS INFINITELY MORE POWERFUL THAN THE OTHER. DO NOT CONFUSE VERTIGO MIKE WITH MAINSTREAM MIKE.

bigbran
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Not very interested in what Michael was supposed to be... Stranger could have been the fourth face of the LT. Stranger = LT? Not really. Michael isn't God so...don't care. Umm... you don't get it, do you?
LT=second to God.
Micheal/Lucifer=second to God.
Spectre(=LT)=third to God...

Just using this second to God thing against you.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
LT does what TOAA wants. If LT's destruction was what TOAA wanted...that's what happened. Ya... and he isn't Spectre, he doesn't get external powerups. If LT doesn't have the power to do a task, then he is f*cked.

Also, Thanos got out... God was... faulty?

God went through all that trouble to ensnare Thanos, but... Thanos had gotten out:
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/2035/theend0615tatopw7.th.jpg

Thanos #1:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1987/thanos0109vb4.th.jpg

Check and mate.


Originally posted by Nikkolas
Lt is the power of multiverses. Is Michael or Lucifer? No, Multi-Eternity is the power of the multi-verse. LT is just a judge... wait, where are you getting this anyway?

No, they are not... because they don't need redicules feats to prove their power.
Also, Vertigo, DC doesn't have an outstanding multi-verse, like Marvel's... so don't compare them.



Originally posted by Nikkolas
TOAA, by feats, is far and above God iN Vertigo. There is no beyond God's sight in MU. It's an omniverse and everything in it is under TOAA. Not all omniotents are created equal. And? Doesn't mean the beings are weaker that were created.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Where did Lucifer have to be to be "beyond" God? Another universe? He can go outside God's influence.



Originally posted by Nikkolas
So does LT. In fact, LT > multiverse. So..there ya go. Good.
Still doesn't mean he wins.

bigbran
Originally posted by Nikkolas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elaine_Belloc

It says Michael's power being released merely made one universe.

Is it wrong? Can you prove it wrong with soem scans or quotes or something? Good.
You do realize that HOTU's power being releashed only REMADE one universe... just pointing it out...

I don't believe that HOTU=Micheal, or even close, but Micheal still whoops LT.

Board Walker
Going by on panel showings which is the only thing on this forum by the rules which carries any true weight or meaning in a debate.

On panel showings show that the LT was destroyed by the HOTU, their was no mention that TOAA wanted LT to die.

To say that LT only lost because TOAA wanted him to lose is the same as saying Spectre only loses because the source wants him to lose; which both statements on this forum by the rules has no weight what so ever.

As it stands the HOTU only made Thanos a multiverse and nothing more, not an omniverse, not a megaverse, he was but a multiverse just as the countless others he saw.

HOTU (power of a complete multiverse) > LT

Vertigo isn't cannon, when will any of you understand this, the Michael from Vertigo is not cannon, as Vertigo comics itself directly contradicts mainstream DC continuity on many points.

HOTU = Power of a multiverse as shown on panel, nothing more

HOTU > LT as shown on panel

Hostless Spectre > Multiversal power, as when he fought the Anti-Monitor who had the power of countless multiverses.

Michael > Hostless Spectre

Michael > LT

Simple as that

Jax_Jax
micheal takes this.

guy222
Originally posted by Jax_Jax
micheal takes this.

Staying with the avatar

Nikkolas
The AM at his best couldn't even one-shot a universe on his own. Didn't he use tAech or weapons?

And please stop using A>B>C Logic.

The only time Spectre was above LT was when he was actually merged with The Presence. Spectre merged with Presence > Michael and Lucifer. Unless you can tell me how exactly they're stronger than him at that point?

And again, when Michael's power was released, did it only make one universe or not?

illadelph12
So much circular logic...

I'm skipping this debate completely.

Board Walker
Originally posted by Nikkolas
The AM at his best couldn't even one-shot a universe on his own. Didn't he use tAech or weapons?

And please stop using A>B>C Logic.

The only time Spectre was above LT was when he was actually merged with The Presence. Spectre merged with Presence > Michael and Lucifer. Unless you can tell me how exactly they're stronger than him at that point?

And again, when Michael's power was released, did it only make one universe or not?

Your showing you know little to nothing about DC, as Vertigo isnt even in continuity nor is it Cannon.

The Michael in this debate is the cannon one from Main stream DC, not Vertigo.

Notice that it is Archangel Michael.

Now show me on panel that the Spectre is more powerful then Michael, because Michael has effortlessly handled the Spectre like a child several times to this day.

bigbran
Originally posted by Nikkolas
And again, when Michael's power was released, did it only make one universe or not? Originally posted by bigbran
Good.
You do realize that HOTU's power being releashed only REMADE one universe... just pointing it out...

I don't believe that HOTU=Micheal, or even close, but Micheal still whoops LT.

Board Walker
Michael's power only made one universe? Again your speaking from Vertigo which isn't cannon or continuity, secondly it created a multiverse, the same as when Elaine made one effortleslly.

The point is, Vertigo Michael Demigeuros is not the same as DC Archangel Michael, two completely different characters.

bigbran
Originally posted by Board Walker
The point is, Vertigo Michael Demigeuros is not the same as DC Archangel Michael, two completely different characters. And either one beats LT... my opinion of course.

Board Walker
Originally posted by bigbran
And either one beats LT... my opinion of course.

I also agree with this

Nikkolas
Michael ever fought this Spectre?

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/4373/spectredx1.th.jpg

And, wasn't DC originally just a single multiverse? So, if The Presence itself created a single multiverse and Michael is below him...what is Michael?

And LT can hold collections of multiverses in his hands. Plus he and Specter beat the Brothers, as shown by Mr. Master.

Board Walker
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Michael ever fought this Spectre?

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/4373/spectredx1.th.jpg

And, wasn't DC originally just a single multiverse? So, if The Presence itself created a single multiverse and Michael is below him...what is Michael?

And LT can hold collections of multiverses in his hands. Plus he and Specter beat the Brothers, as shown by Mr. Master.

DC has never been a singular multiverse, and is not today either, DC is composed of many multiverses, their is a recent comic that came out to with heroes from many different universes/multiverses.

Nikkolas
DC was a single multiverse. That was what was destroyed during Crisis on Infinite Earths. However, they've changed that recently and now multiverses still exist.

At most, ALL of DC is about...5 or so multiverses as far as I know. Counting DCAU and Vertigo and everything.

bigbran
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Michael ever fought this Spectre?

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/4373/spectredx1.th.jpg

And, wasn't DC originally just a single multiverse? So, if The Presence itself created a single multiverse and Michael is below him...what is Michael?

And LT can hold collections of multiverses in his hands. Plus he and Specter beat the Brothers, as shown by Mr. Master. Is LT equal to God? No, then what does that have to do with the thread?

The Presence is equal to TOAA on these boards... is this just another way to make a company more powerful than the other?

Do you mean holding the Brothers in his hands? Ya...

You notice how you said that Spectre helped? You also notice how Micheal is above Spectre? Really just makes your case worse...

Yes Mr Master is great... but even he can leave out things *gasp*.
All they did was hold them together for a short time. Did you forget that the Brothers also didn't even acknowledge them? That Spectre and LT were tiny specks. That the duo never beat them, but the Brothers stalemated?

And finally... That the comic was non canon?
Or are you talking about the other non-canon X-Men arc?
Yes, yes, LT makes it canon to him, but it still doesn't mean anything.
If Spectre, and LT beat them (depowered, ret-conned, whatever you want to call it), then it is still irrelevent to this battle.

Also, if you want to use that comic, LT and Spectre were equals.
Looky how the equal fairs.
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/7788/spectre19931012if7.jpg
http://img110.imageshack.us/img110/8840/spectre19931013bj3.jpg
http://img469.imageshack.us/img469/5512/spectre19931016al6.jpg
*gasp*

Micheal wins.

Nikkolas
Michael never went up against the GEB...even if Specter lost, GEB is stronger than anything Michael has encountered. Plus Specter fought the Brothers. Brothers and GEB = stronger than Michael.



Never said he was but people keep saying Michael > Specter.... a lot of people pwn Specter. He has low showings. His higher showings put him above Michael is what I'm saying.



Talking post-retcon. post-retcon Brothers still > Michael as they are megaverses and were forced to merge by LT and Specter.



'cept post-retcon Brothers still are megaverses in and of themselves. LT can judge them and hold them in his hand.

When did Michael have the power of a megaverse?

bigbran
Originally posted by Nikkolas
Michael never went up against the GEB...even if Specter lost, GEB is stronger than anything Michael has encountered. Plus Specter fought the Brothers. Brothers and GEB = stronger than Michael. Odin never went up against HOTU... even if Hulk lost, HOTU is still stronger than anything Odin has encountered. Plus Hulk fought the IG. IG and HOTU = Stronger than Odin.

Yeh, for shoddy logic. Hulk>>Odin.



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Never said he was but people keep saying Michael > Specter.... a lot of people pwn Specter. He has low showings. His higher showings put him above Michael is what I'm saying. A lot of people?
...
who?



Originally posted by Nikkolas
Talking post-retcon. post-retcon Brothers still > Michael as they are megaverses and were forced to merge by LT and Specter. Megaverses...are you honestly using that comic as your source?
Anyway, Spectre never merged Micheal.



Originally posted by Nikkolas
'cept post-retcon Brothers still are megaverses in and of themselves. LT can judge them and hold them in his hand.

When did Michael have the power of a megaverse? When did HOTU have teh power of a multi-verse?

Mider999
what is it with all these stuipd retconns first marvel had a multiverse now they go lets get a omniverse, then they say LT has no m-bodies now they want him to have some just to make him look good.

LORDSIDIOUS01
Originally posted by Mider999
what is it with all these stuipd retconns first marvel had a multiverse now they go lets get a omniverse, then they say LT has no m-bodies now they want him to have some just to make him look good.

living man wins

Swanky-Tuna
I have a feeling this whole aggressively pro-DC thing is going to result in a big DC backlash. Just look what happened to Storm.

Beta Ray Howard
Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I have a feeling this whole aggressively pro-DC thing is going to result in a big DC backlash. Just look what happened to Storm.

I'm honestly hoping for it. It's flat out stupid, and DC's big guns are getting treated like Gods.

We need more realists around here.

guy222
Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
living man wins

mr. sidious, i agree. living tribunal is god's son. whether u like michael, my choice is living tribunal

bigbran
Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
I'm honestly hoping for it. It's flat out stupid, and DC's big guns are getting treated like Gods.

We need more realists around here. Hello?
Originally posted by guy222
mr. sidious, i agree. living tribunal is god's son. whether u like michael, my choice is living tribunal Wait... what?
LT is God's servent (or sex slave if you will). I have never, ever, saw in a comic, someone say he is his son.

Micheal though... is actually God's son.

LORDSIDIOUS01
Originally posted by guy222
mr. sidious, i agree. living tribunal is god's son. whether u like michael, my choice is living tribunal

meh. tribunal follows orders. sidious says. lt wins.

guy222
Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
meh. tribunal follows orders. sidious says. lt wins.

Living Tribunal follows and obeys The One Above All. I am staying with Living Tribunal.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by guy222
Living Tribunal follows and obeys The One Above All. I am staying with Living Tribunal.

That reason is silly. He's gotten owned while trying to stop beings before. he was obeying the one above all then and still got owned. Michael is a warrior with the power of God. LT get's punked hard.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
I'm honestly hoping for it. It's flat out stupid, and DC's big guns are getting treated like Gods.

We need more realists around here.

You mean to tell me after all the months we have endured of Odin, surfer, thor, thanos, iceman, lt, classic beyonder, brb, galactus, quasar, marvel cosmics wins all shit, that you actually would fix your keyboard to type this crap? Get real. If anything the board just seems to be more balanced to me.

Beta Ray Howard
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
You mean to tell me after all the months we have endured of Odin, surfer, thor, thanos, iceman, lt, classic beyonder, brb, galactus, quasar, marvel cosmics wins all shit, that you actually would fix your keyboard to type this crap? Get real. If anything the board just seems to be more balanced to me.

and for months people have made the mismatch of a DC character that they think is just as powerful as a Marvel character, and end up being way off.

Then what happens? DC fan goes ape shit.

Thanos vs Superman, went straight to hell. Had possibly the dumbest claims I've ever seen.

Wonder Woman vs just about anyone stronger than her goes straight to hell.

just about any entity vs Living Tribunal. DC character loses, people go nuts.

There's a Marvel bias when it comes to liked characters, but the power levels of DC characters get skewed like crazy.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Beta Ray Howard
and for months people have made the mismatch of a DC character that they think is just as powerful as a Marvel character, and end up being way off.

Then what happens? DC fan goes ape shit.

Thanos vs Superman, went straight to hell. Had possibly the dumbest claims I've ever seen.

Wonder Woman vs just about anyone stronger than her goes straight to hell.

just about any entity vs Living Tribunal. DC character loses, people go nuts.

There's a Marvel bias when it comes to liked characters, but the power levels of DC characters get skewed like crazy.

No just no. DC has several characters that are more powerful than LT. LT has proven time and again he is not infallible. Wonder Woman doesn't really get any love on these boards. WTF are you talking about? People constantly put her down if she fights anyone near her in strength. Even tho she is a better fighter. The only reason she's getting so much defense now is becuz people are giving her her weapons. It only makes sense that she would be so much harder to beat with all her gear. Thanos vs Superman was clearly favored for Thanos. I posted in that thread several times that thanos would win. Tho superman NOT holding back could get in some good licks. As for you thinking that the power lvls of DC characters are all out of whack, I dare you challenge me on any marvel character with no peer from DC. You cannot. DC has a match for every powerful marvel character and that is just fact. In some cases DC has more.

guy222
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
That reason is silly. He's gotten owned while trying to stop beings before. he was obeying the one above all then and still got owned. Michael is a warrior with the power of God. LT get's punked hard.

Losing to Thanos u refer. The super cannon of Reed, I imagine. Ok. I like Marvel. Bottom line. Anyone likes DC, that's cool. No one in Marvel is above Living Tribunal save his creator. That simple. Anyone can differ, always been my opinion. I am not changing mine

guy222
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
No just no. DC has several characters that are more powerful than LT. LT has proven time and again he is not infallible. Wonder Woman doesn't really get any love on these boards. WTF are you talking about? People constantly put her down if she fights anyone near her in strength. Even tho she is a better fighter. The only reason she's getting so much defense now is becuz people are giving her her weapons. It only makes sense that she would be so much harder to beat with all her gear. Thanos vs Superman was clearly favored for Thanos. I posted in that thread several times that thanos would win. Tho superman NOT holding back could get in some good licks. As for you thinking that the power lvls of DC characters are all out of whack, I dare you challenge me on any marvel character with no peer from DC. You cannot. DC has a match for every powerful marvel character and that is just fact. In some cases DC has more.

I agree with some of ur assessments. It comes down to whatever the editor chooses. I talk to editors. U email. Then u wait for a reply. Marvel and DC will always equal, sometimes one favors the other. Its competition. Tribunal/Michael/Spectre have all suffered what appears to be defeats. Simple fact, Tribunal/Spectre figured prominently in Marvel vs DC along with 'Brothers'.

Thanos_THOTU
GEB = Dark side of Yewhew >> Michael + Lucifer

Presnece >> Yewhew >> Micale + Lucifer
TOAA >> Living Tribunal
+ Living Tribunal has better panel features.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
GEB = Dark side of Yewhew >> Michael + Lucifer

Presnece >> Yewhew >> Micale + Lucifer
TOAA >> Living Tribunal
+ Living Tribunal has better panel features.

YOu must be a slow. YOur mixing Michael from the Main DCU into your equation. This equation is about Michael the Arcangel. Not Michael from the Vertigo multiverse.

illadelph12
Can you post feats of Michael other than him barring the Spectre from entering heaven?

illadelph12
And peers doen't mean equals.

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
YOu must be a slow. YOur mixing Michael from the Main DCU into your equation. This equation is about Michael the Arcangel. Not Michael from the Vertigo multiverse.
When the **** did Michael exist in DC, he's like Lucifer a Vertigo character. Now prove me wrong or GTFOH

guy222
Originally posted by illadelph12
And peers doen't mean equals.

Michael had fits w/Great Darkness

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
When the **** did Michael exist in DC, he's like Lucifer a Vertigo character. Now prove me wrong or GTFOH

Vertigo is part of DC.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Vertigo is part of DC.

vertigo is a multiverse not part of the main dcu multiverse.

Symmetric Chaos
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
vertigo is a multiverse not part of the main dcu multiverse.

I know its not the main one but is part of DC isn't it?

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I know its not the main one but is part of DC isn't it?

Yeah but it's not cannon unto the main dc multiverse, It itself has several differnt realities.

Mr Master
Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Yeah but it's not cannon unto the main dc multiverse, It itself has several differnt realities.

Where is this stated?

Thanos_THOTU
For all I know Michael and Lucifer does only exist in the Vertigo universe (never seen it stated to be a multiverse) and they have Yewhew's power and will.

Now Yewhew is not supreme, but Presence is.

Presence >> Yewhew
TOAA >> Living Tribunal

Now L. Tribunal can destroy multiverses and such at will, he's second only to the One-Above-All and he can do anything as long as the One-Above-All allowes it.

So feature-wise Michael nor Lucifer can surpass him, so saying, second to the supreme being in Marvel does not mean second in DC.

In all the cross-overs there has been proven to be a balance.
TOAA = Presence -- No doubt about it.

So the rest of Marvel must equal the rest of DC.

Marvel = DC (in terms of power) a lack somewhere means a fortity elsewhere.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
For all I know Michael and Lucifer does only exist in the Vertigo universe (never seen it stated to be a multiverse) and they have Yewhew's power and will.

Now Yewhew is not supreme, but Presence is.

Presence >> Yewhew
TOAA >> Living Tribunal

Now L. Tribunal can destroy multiverses and such at will, he's second only to the One-Above-All and he can do anything as long as the One-Above-All allowes it.

So feature-wise Michael nor Lucifer can surpass him, so saying, second to the supreme being in Marvel does not mean second in DC.

In all the cross-overs there has been proven to be a balance.
TOAA = Presence -- No doubt about it.

So the rest of Marvel must equal the rest of DC.

Marvel = DC (in terms of power) a lack somewhere means a fortity elsewhere.

That logic is fualty when considering supreme beings can create as many powerful beings as they choose. WHen you have truly infinite power, there is no lack or fortity. it simply is what you want. The presence has created several spectres. He could make his entire omniverse full of spectre's if he chose to. and the TOAA could make a billion preretconned beyonders.

Board Walker
The whole argument that LT will win because TOAA wont allow him to lose is as flawed and meaningless as saying "Michael will win because the Source wont allow him to lose."

In a debate between character A and character B, their is no outside help from anyone unless otherwise stated in the OP.

Thanos_THOTU
Originally posted by Board Walker
The whole argument that LT will win because TOAA wont allow him to lose is as flawed and meaningless as saying "Michael will win because the Source wont allow him to lose."

In a debate between character A and character B, their is no outside help from anyone unless otherwise stated in the OP.
But fact is, the source is weaker than Yewhew, as the Presence.

Yewhew = God
The Source = The Holy Spirit

God >> Jesus > Holy Spirit > Saint Michael
That's the bible's hierarchy

Yewhew is weaker than the Presence and the One-Above-All

But then again "Physics and Logic" triumps Religion of any kind.
Si quis non amat Dominium lesum sit anathema maranatha. Amen.

nvrbeenwthagirl
Originally posted by Thanos_THOTU
But fact is, the source is weaker than Yewhew, as the Presence.

Yewhew = God
The Source = The Holy Spirit

God >> Jesus > Holy Spirit > Saint Michael
That's the bible's hierarchy

Yewhew is weaker than the Presence and the One-Above-All

But then again "Physics and Logic" triumps Religion of any kind.
Si quis non amat Dominium lesum sit anathema maranatha. Amen.

Please leave you personal feeling of religion and science out of the debates. Anyway, Michael from vertigo is not the same michael from DC main universe. hence why I specifically called him the arcangel.

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