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This is based on yet another moronic line by the great Noobaris.

Yoda whips out his huge massive alien d**k and rapes Sunrider into oblivion.

i thought he said before that Kas'Im was the best of all time? Now its this person?

Not the best, but most prodigious. I mean really, who else compares to her? Being able to wield a lightsaber like a master on her first try is damn impressive. With some training and experience, which she received a lot of, she would be kickass.

And yoda has been wielding his saber like a master for 800 years. So?

I've read a lot of retarded crap on these forums before but Nebaris has to be the most mentally degenerated person yet.

I must have missed that comic ore novel, in what comic did she handle is like a master?

The first TOTJ, I believe.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Yoda whips out his huge massive alien d**k and rapes Sunrider into oblivion.


Great, more nightmares!

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And yoda has been wielding his saber like a master for 800 years. So?

1. Yet he was pretty much dedicated solely to the will of the force; he viewed knowledge of the force as being infinitely greater than simple prowess with a lightsaber, and he was very much out of practise.

2. The fact that with all his skill (which was much greater than Dooku's and Sidious'), he still wasn't able to overcome either in lightsaber combat speaks for him being technically very poor, otherwise he should have owned them.

Originally posted by Tangible God
I've read a lot of retarded crap on these forums before but Nebaris has to be the most mentally degenerated person yet.

Oh wait, I forgot, Yoda was in the movies and had a flashy style. Gosh, how could I have been so dumb, he pwns!

In The Freedon Nadd Uprising she wields it like a master after only about a month of training, she is a prodigy. I've only just started to read the Old republic Comics for the first time and have only just finished reading TFNU and in it she's pretty good but not good enough to defeat Yoda, she could probably last around 45 seconds, though, I'm guessing (seeing as Anakin lasted about 50 against Dooku in AOTC). But she'd definately lose, I don't know how strong she is in her prime but likely not quite as strong as Yoda still.

And yet he's still the most powerful Jedi to that point, able to beat multiple masters at once one of whom being a Vaapad Master, and able to disarm Sidious in lightsaber combat (ROTS script)

"YODA unleashes a ferocious assault on PALPATINE, causing him to almost go over the edge. The Dark Lord drops his lightsaber" - The ROTS Script



Your wrong, in AOTC Dooku was forced to run, in Dark Rendezvous he owns Dooku while he is distracted, and once again Dooku runs. And in the ROTS script he overpowers and disarms Sidious in straight lightsaber combat.

Yoda would beat her ass.

Noobaris, you are an idiot.

And out of practice? Yoda apparently keeps himself in shape. And he's also nearly 800 yars, so he's obviously a bit, y'know, old and out of it. He's got arthritism, rheumatism and needs a cane to walk when he's not using the Force...

Originally posted by allfg
Not the best, but most prodigious. I mean really, who else compares to her? Being able to wield a lightsaber like a master on her first try is damn impressive. With some training and experience, which she received a lot of, she would be kickass.

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h100/lescent2/starwars12.jpg

"BRAAA RIGH ATE JOO!!!"

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
Noobaris, you are an idiot.

This is what we call bashing and spam. Please cut it out. Thanks.

Now, I don't see Nomi winning this fight, but I certainly see Yoda getting a workout from a fight with the "defacto" leader of the Jedi Order (source: NEGtChrono).

Originally posted by allfg
Not the best, but most prodigious. I mean really, who else compares to her? Being able to wield a lightsaber like a master on her first try is damn impressive. With some training and experience, which she received a lot of, she would be kickass.
You should note and understand that Yoda is more powerful and experienced then Nomi Sunrider.

He will defeat her even in pure Saber duel.

When master swordsmen like Dooku and Sidious could not out-duel or defeat him in Saber combat, then I don't see Sunrider winning as well.

Yoda wins easily.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
This is what we call bashing and spam. Please cut it out. Thanks.

Now, I don't see Nomi winning this fight, but I certainly see Yoda getting a workout from a fight with the "defacto" leader of the Jedi Order (source: NEGtChrono).

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know being the leader of the Jedi Order all of a sudden makes you uber powerful. I guess Vodo was the grandmaster then? Or was it Odan Urr, who got tooled? Please, her being the leader of the Jedi Order doesn't mean jack shit. Yoda wtfpwns her.

Except for the fact that Exar can pwn leaders of the Jedi Order, Yoda can't. He can't pwn people of his own position. He's better, but he won't be pwning any of them.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Except for the fact that Exar can pwn leaders of the Jedi Order, Yoda can't. He can't pwn people of his own position. He's better, but he won't be pwning any of them.


Yes, and I suppose you conveniently forgot that the PT Jedi as a whole would WTFPwn Exar Kun's Jedi Order. At the same time Yoda CAN defeat everybody in his order.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Except for the fact that Exar can pwn leaders of the Jedi Order, Yoda can't. He can't pwn people of his own position. He's better, but he won't be pwning any of them.
Yoda can do so actually, and yoda is the leader of a stronger Jedi Order, and he's stronger than anyone Exar faced, or anyone in Exar's time and that's plain fact

Also, didnt Yoda tool some masters (multiple) without even attacking? Pretty impressive to me.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Also, didnt Yoda tool some masters (multiple) without even attacking? Pretty impressive to me.
No, he just dodged their attacks, he didn't actually beat them. You guys are underestimating Nomi here, yes, Yoda will win, no one's disputing that, but it won't be pwnage. I'd say he wins comfortably which is one step above pwnage and it most certainly won't rapeage.

I fail to see how it won't be wtfpwnage.

Nomi is good but to she can't beat yoda. Also, beat some thugs is not that impressive, really...

She took out a few tough thugs with one swing of he lightsaber when not in her prime. It's not enough to take Yoda but that combined with her Battle Meditation skills and her skills to beat some Hutt goons with no training will be enough that she won't get pwnd by Yoda.

Yoda is gonna kill Nomi Sunrider.

No way man, Nomi Sunrider rhymes with Yummy Bunbiter, so she wins.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Yoda can do so actually, and yoda is the leader of a stronger Jedi Order, and he's stronger than anyone Exar faced, or anyone in Exar's time and that's plain fact .

So what. On the same note, Exar is stronger than anyone Yoda has faced. What's your point? Wxar wtfpwned everyone he fought. The people he fought were weaker than Yoda, but not by so much as that it isn't enough for Exar to win. Get that through your head.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
.

So what. On the same note, Exar is stronger than anyone Yoda has faced. What's your point? Wxar wtfpwned everyone he fought. The people he fought were weaker than Yoda, but not by so much as that it isn't enough for Exar to win. Get that through your head.

Stronger than anyone Yoda faced? Stronger that Mace? Stronger than Sidious?

Yeah, he is.

stronger than sidious? sorry the NEC disproves what you just said, DW clearly stated palpatine is more powerful than any other sith

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Yeah, he is.

No, he isn't. "teh amulate blazts!11" and "he r feezing teh senat3!1" isn't gonna cut it this time, not against someone like Yoda or Sidious.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
.

So what. On the same note, Exar is stronger than anyone Yoda has faced. What's your point? Wxar wtfpwned everyone he fought. The people he fought were weaker than Yoda, but not by so much as that it isn't enough for Exar to win. Get that through your head.
You're going to stop this: NEC and ROTS novelization prove you dead wrong.
It's SW fact Exar is weaker and the official sources confirm thois. Get this through your head.

Exar wtfpwned people of no significance! (WOW!)
Exar never fought anyone to Yoda's power (WOW!)
Palpatine is stronger than Exar as of ROTs (Confirmed in several sources! WOW!)
Yoda>Exar by all feats (And the facts sort of showed you were unable to contest this) (WOW!)
Yoda and Palpatine>Exar (WOW!)

Get it through your head already. You admitted you held Exar in higher esteem and need to get over the fact he's not stronger than him. The quote "Most powerful sIth in history." is not ambiguous, especially when Wallace confirmed what his intentions were. Stover's opinion is not ambiguous, considering he said thanks to Lucas's confirmation it's as close to SW fact as he can get. Exar's co-creator said that Lucas was heavily involved in TOTJ and he believes his intention was that Yoda is well above Exar (After saying without any hesitance that Yoda is above Exar and the Ancients)

Palpatine also has far more knowledge than Exar by ROTS (Want to deny this? Did Exar have decades? Dod Exar have forgotten Sith artifacts dating far back to the Ancient Empire not limited to Sadow's leftovers? Did exar have direct access to the spirits of the ancients and numerous Sith holocrons? No? Ok)
Get.
Over.
It.

What exactly did Yoda have that was from the ancients? I think you're exaggerating here. NOBODY put Yoda well ahead of Exar Kun. I agree he's above Kun in force abilities, but not by much, and the saber battle is debatable, so I don't see where Yoda is "WELL ABOVE" him.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
You're going to stop this: NEC and ROTS novelization prove you dead wrong.
It's SW fact Exar is weaker and the official sources confirm thois. Get this through your head.

Exar wtfpwned people of no significance! (WOW!)
Exar never fought anyone to Yoda's power (WOW!)
Palpatine is stronger than Exar as of ROTs (Confirmed in several sources! WOW!)
Yoda>Exar by all feats (And the facts sort of showed you were unable to contest this) (WOW!)
Yoda and Palpatine>Exar (WOW!)

Get it through your head already. You admitted you held Exar in higher esteem and need to get over the fact he's not stronger than him. The quote "Most powerful sIth in history." is not ambiguous, especially when Wallace confirmed what his intentions were. Stover's opinion is not ambiguous, considering he said thanks to Lucas's confirmation it's as close to SW fact as he can get. Exar's co-creator said that Lucas was heavily involved in TOTJ and he believes his intention was that Yoda is well above Exar (After saying without any hesitance that Yoda is above Exar and the Ancients)

Palpatine also has far more knowledge than Exar by ROTS (Want to deny this? Did Exar have decades? Dod Exar have forgotten Sith artifacts dating far back to the Ancient Empire not limited to Sadow's leftovers? Did exar have direct access to the spirits of the ancients and numerous Sith holocrons? No? Ok)
Get.
Over.
It.
You over-estimate Yoda too much.

Lucas even said that Anakin was as strong as the Emperor but according to his own movies, this is not the case.

And provide us a written canon source in which it is said that Yoda is far above Kun.

Kun is more dangerous then Yoda. This has been proven when he fought against DE Luke and nearly destroyed him.

And DE Luke was not at all weak.

Lucas says anakin had the potential, but it was cut on Mustafar.

And Kun did not fight DE Luke: He attacked a distracted DE Luke trying not to hurt his apprentice from behind-WOW! How POWERFUL! I guess Han Solo is better than Palpatine!

And Yoda is the strongest Jedi up to ROTS, period. Confirmed in the Lucas word by word approved ROTS novelization. PAlpatine is the strongest Sith in history, according to several sources. Yoda and Palpatine are equals. Ergo...Now you see?

Looks like you underestimate Yoda. Unless you can argue with direct canon...well, denial's the first stage, I think.

Nobody's arguing with direct canon lightsnake, you're the only one who is illogically trying to tell us that Yoda is far above Kun which is clearly not the case. Your quotes as usual mean nothing in terms of how far below Kun is. In fact he has more offensive weapons but Yoda has more overall weapons and defenses.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Lucas says anakin had the potential, but it was cut on Mustafar.
Lucas said in the rolling stones interview that Anakin was as "strong" as the Emperor. He did not used the term "potential" when making this assumption. This clearly contradicts with what he has shown us in his movies.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And Kun did not fight DE Luke: He attacked a distracted DE Luke trying not to hurt his apprentice from behind-WOW! How POWERFUL! I guess Han Solo is better than Palpatine!
Distracted?

When Kyp (possessed by Kun's spirit) attacked Luke, he fought back as best as he could but he still failed. He could not defend against Kun's techniques and thus lost. This is surely an impressive achievement by a 4000 year old spirit.

And it took the combined efforts of all Luke's Jedi apprentices, Luke's own spirit and Vodo's spirit to stop and defeat Kun's ancient spirit. Now imagine that how strong was Kun.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And Yoda is the strongest Jedi up to ROTS, period. Confirmed in the Lucas word by word approved ROTS novelization. PAlpatine is the strongest Sith in history, according to several sources. Yoda and Palpatine are equals. Ergo...Now you see?
Yoda was indeed very strong in the Force but this does not means that he is far above the legendary Jedi/Sith of Old Republic period.

And Sidious is the strongest Sith Lord in Bane's Rule of Two Lineage.

SW Databank: He is the most powerful practitioner of the Sith ways in modern times.

And power is also an ambiguous thing.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Looks like you underestimate Yoda. Unless you can argue with direct canon...well, denial's the first stage, I think.
No I don't.

I recognize Yoda's position and consider him to be among the TOP 5 Jedi of all times in the Star Wars Saga.

We have already debated the "as strong as", and we explained that Lucas was not talking about them as equals....

There is no ambiguity in Lucas' words. He said Vader was supposed to become twice as strong as Sidious. There is also no ambiguity in the term "power", so I don't know why you're using that as the focal point of your argument.

Originally posted by kamikz
We have already debated the "as strong as", and we explained that Lucas was not talking about them as equals....
That is our assumptions of Lucas's words. Lucas simply indicated that Anakin was as strong as the Emperor. He did not used the word "potential" in that point and neither he gave any indications that how Anakin is as strong as the Emperor.

He did contradicted with what he has made by that statement.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
There is no ambiguity in Lucas' words. He said Vader was supposed to become twice as strong as Sidious. There is also no ambiguity in the term "power", so I don't know why you're using that as the focal point of your argument.
Lucas' words are contradictory. He simply indicated that Anakin was as strong as the Emperor in ROTS period and gave no clarifications in the rolling stones interview.

And some people in official SW forum said that power of a Jedi is ambiguous. A Jedi can be very impressive in a certain situation and not at all impressive in a different situation. Star Wars is a dynamic world and power factor of a Jedi fluctuates depending upon the situations and circumstances.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Lucas' words are contradictory. He simply indicated that Anakin was as strong as the Emperor in ROTS period and gave no clarifications in the rolling stones interview.

And some people in official SW forum said that power of a Jedi is ambiguous. A Jedi can be very impressive in a certain situation and not at all impressive in a different situation. Star Wars is a dynamic world and power factor of a Jedi fluctuates depending upon the situations and circumstances.

He never said Anakin was as strong as Sidious at the point of ROTS. Secondly, I believe it was in the ROTS commentary or in MANY MANY other sources that Lucas states that Anakin at his best would be twice as powerful as Sidious.

Power is not ambiguous. I don't know what you're talking about. Yoda's power wasn't "Ambiguous". Luke's power wasn't "ambiguous".

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That is our assumptions of Lucas's words. Lucas simply indicated that Anakin was as strong as the Emperor. He did not used the word "potential" in that point and neither he gave any indications that how Anakin is as strong as the Emperor.

He did contradicted with what he has made by that statement.


No, the quote is taking out of context, and people take it way to literal. Saying "he is not on par with the Emperor" doesn't mean that he was, had he said "anymore" or "used to be" (from then on, does not equal "used to be" or "anymore" then yeah, that could have been something to debate, but he just says "not on par with the Emperor", it's just stating that he isn't and that he has decreased in power, (To show his power level simply) nowhere does it say that he once was.
The "from then on" doesn't mean he used to be, once again, he is just stating that Darth Vader is not on par with the Emperor, to RIGHT AFTER THAT go to explain where exactly Vader stands. It does NOT say that Anakin by ROTS was equal to him, nor that Anakin EVER was....


If I wanted to do the same, I would go around saying "Lucas states that Darth Maul and Tyrannus are equal, and Vader is equal to them", but we all know that what Lucas said didn't equal to that. "From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor, but more like Darth Maul or Dooku".
See, same thing....

Originally posted by kamikz
No, the quote is taking out of context, and people take it way to literal. Saying "he is not on par with the Emperor" doesn't mean that he was, had he said "anymore" or "used to be" (from then on, does not equal "used to be" or "anymore" then yeah, that could have been something to debate, but he just says "not on par with the Emperor", it's just stating that he isn't and that he has decreased in power, (To show his power level simply) nowhere does it say that he once was.
The "from then on" doesn't mean he used to be, once again, he is just stating that Darth Vader is not on par with the Emperor, to RIGHT AFTER THAT go to explain where exactly Vader stands. It does NOT say that Anakin by ROTS was equal to him, nor that Anakin EVER was....


If I wanted to do the same, I would go around saying "Lucas states that Darth Maul and Tyrannus are equal, and Vader is equal to them", but we all know that what Lucas said didn't equal to that. "From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor, but more like Darth Maul or Dooku".
See, same thing....
This is your way of understanding his comment and I do not agree with this.

Again take a clear look at this line: "From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor". Here Lucas is saying that after Anakin was defeated and suffered horrible burns, he was no longer as strong as the Emperor. So it means that he was as strong as the Emperor before those injuries.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Lucas said in the rolling stones interview that Anakin was as "strong" as the Emperor. He did not used the term "potential" when making this assumption. This clearly contradicts with what he has shown us in his movies.
We know what this means


what're you talking about? He was already hit by Kun. Defensive techniques won't do a THING when you're hit while distracted
And Kun was attacking FROM BEHIND when Kyp was

Bull. It didn't 'take' that...Kun was lured into a trap by the padawans and already done for when Luke and vodo appeared.
Beaten by Padawans, hail the Dark Lord


G-canon does prove it.
Sorry. Lucas's reviewed words, the words of the Old Republic's original creator and Matt Stover have all said Yoda is the strongest Jedi as of ROTS, in print or in writing. And they have cited Lucas as their source

Stop being dumb. 'In history' with author clarification doesn't mean 'in a thousand years

No it's not. It's only ambiguous when you want it to be.
Btw, 'modern times' doesn't discount 'all time.'


Discounting anything post ROTS, he's number 1

Oh wow, a bunch of padawans, a BUNCH, killed an ancient sith spirit who pwned Luke. Yea lightsnake he REALLY sucked. Nice argument.

10-15 Padawans is a BUNCH?

10-15 padawans vs. a spirit.

Ghostly Luke, Spirit Vodo, a dozen Padawans, and two grandchildren of Vader.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Again take a clear look at this line: "From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor". Here Lucas is saying that after Anakin was defeated and suffered horrible burns, he was no longer as strong as the Emperor. So it means that he was as strong as the Emperor before those injuries.

And this directly contradicts the movies and several other sources stating yoda is the strongest jedi at that time. Anakin had raw power and what use is it if he didnt have mastery over it? Its like having the best weapon in the world and not knowing which button to press

Originally posted by Tangible God
Ghostly Luke, Spirit Vodo, a dozen Padawans, and two grandchildren of Vader.





Thats about right

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is your way of understanding his comment and I do not agree with this.

Again take a clear look at this line: "From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor". Here Lucas is saying that after Anakin was defeated and suffered horrible burns, he was no longer as strong as the Emperor. So it means that he was as strong as the Emperor before those injuries.



No, again, it doesn't mean he once was, it never says that in the text, Sidious is just there as an example. For crying out ****ing loud, you KNOW that Anakin IS NOT Sidious equals, LUCAS has said so BEFORE, the MOVIE shows that Anakin IS NOT as strong as him, and OTHER PEOPLE do NOT agree with your way of seeing the text. It is ****ing obvious that this quote means nothing, because YOU see the text like that, while others don't AND they have all the facts not to, AND Lucas words on all other interviews in the world, Sidious and Anakin WAS NEVER EQUAL.

When?

Lucas overrules the movie.

Never again AS STRONG means he was was AS STRONG, if you don't believe me ask you're english teacher or someone who is unbiased and (s)he will tell you that that is what it means.

Then open your eyes, look at it again, read it without being biased, and if your still to near-sighted to see what it means then ask your english teacher.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is your way of understanding his comment and I do not agree with this.

Again take a clear look at this line: "From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor". Here Lucas is saying that after Anakin was defeated and suffered horrible burns, he was no longer as strong as the Emperor. So it means that he was as strong as the Emperor before those injuries.

Wow, talk about twisting GL's words to fit your argument.

Originally posted by darthsith19
When?

Lucas overrules the movie.

Never again AS STRONG means he was was AS STRONG, if you don't believe me ask you're english teacher or someone who is unbiased and (s)he will tell you that that is what it means.

Then open your eyes, look at it again, read it without being biased, and if your still to near-sighted to see what it means then ask your english teacher.


You open your ****ing eyes, you just take the quote to literal....



Lucas has said before that the only ones strong enough to stand against the Emperor is Mace and Yoda, not Anakin. (ROTS documentary) So there you have it...


Irrelevant, cause Lucas has already said that Anakin isn't strong enough...


Use your brain, why do you even bother debating this? You KNOW that Anakin is nowhere near Sidious in the force, and they are pretty near eachother in sabers, it makes no sense to say that they are equal, and since other people don't agree with the way you think of this quote, it leaves your argument pretty much destroyed.


So here we have it, either we take your side, where you take one single quote from Lucas, saying it says they are equal though everything points against it, or we take my side, where it says that Lucas already has DEFINITIVE quotes that he is not as strong as Sidious, where we have facts to back it up and equally many opinions that the quote does not mean he is equal. Which one shall we pick?


Also, I just got the quote completly, follow...

Lucas says, "which is what the Emperor was looking for in the first place: somebody who would be more powerful than he was and could help him rule the universe. But Obi-Wan screwed that up by cutting off his arms and legs and burning him up. From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor -- he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become".

That quote, does NOT speak for ROTS Anakin's power level, it speaks for "what he could have become". Read it carefully, all it ever involvs is about how "Sidious wanted someone more powerful than him", then it is followed by "Obi-Wan screwed that up, now he is not as powerful as Sidious". It IS about potential, it is not about ROTS Anakin's power level. The "as strong as" is fitting perfectly in that, he is saying that instead of someone that would be more powerful than him, he isn't even equal to him. You are saying that since he says, "from then on, he is not as strong as the Emperor" it must mean that Anakin by ROTS is as strong as him. This is wrong, for THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION is about what Anakin COULD HAVE BECOME, nothing is about what Anakin was in ROTS. The as strong as is simply to show that he is not even above the Emperor anymore, as he should have been, which was the Emperor's request.


If you are still going to take it so damn literally, then we might just go ahead and say that Maul, Dooku and Vader are all equal, because Lucas put them together such....

Also, to put a little more icing on the cake, if Anakin was as strong as Sidious, then why would Yoda allow OB1 to fight Anakin if he just said, "To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough you are not." If he isn't strong enough to fight Sidious then he isn't strong enough to fight Anakin, based on your YOUR biased illogical assertion.

Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Wow, talk about twisting GL's words to fit your argument.
I did not twist GL's words. What he said is very clear.

He said that "From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor". This means that Anakin was no longer as strong as the Emperor, when he was injured and burned.

Now if you can't understand the meaning of this simple comment properly, then it is not my fault.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
Also, to put a little more icing on the cake, if Anakin was as strong as Sidious, then why would Yoda allow OB1 to fight Anakin if he just said, "To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough you are not."

Well if you take the novelisation into consideration, it's made clear that Yoda and Obi-Wan were heavily overrating Sidious at this point, to the point where they actually believed that the both of them, together, wouldn't even have a chance against him. It's made clear in the film that Yoda was, in fact, a match for him.

Originally posted by Darth Subjekt
If he isn't strong enough to fight Sidious then he isn't strong enough to fight Anakin, based on your YOUR biased illogical assertion.

Well there is the fact that Obi-Wan was Anakin's master, so training him for all those years would naturally grant him advantages if he were to fight Anakin: he would know his weaknesses and such. There's also the fact that while Obi-Wan was disciplined and calm spirited, Anakin was pretty much the opposite, meaning he would be the only one of the pair to experience the drawbacks from the the bond between them, and the love shared.

Originally posted by kamikz
You open your ****ing eyes, you just take the quote to literal....

Woah, calm down man, I don't think I've ever seen you angry before.



Didn't he also say that Anakin could also compete with him, once he had turned to the darkside?



1. We know this? I don't know this. DarthSith and SW Legend clearly don't know this either. Where's the proof that Sidious is, in fact, stronger than a darksided RotS Anakin?

2. Saberwise, I have to say I disagree. Anakin would destroy Sidious in lightsaber combat; he's much faster, much stronger, he had the skill to overpower Dooku, he was able to fend off Cin Drallig with his lightsaber while simultaneously choking a padawan... Sidious was terribly slow, terribly unskilled, completely lacked technique, struggled against Yoda... He only did good against people that sucked.



Again, I have to disagree. Anakin has something like ten times the potential that Sidious has. If it was referring to potential, the quote would have read 'stronger', not 'as strong as'.



Not really, because Lucas didn't do so much as directly state such a thing (like he did with the other quote), but simply put them all under the same category as people who weren't as strong as The Emporer. You can't really compare a direct statement to a wild inference, that's just silly.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
We know what this means
Then why discuss this?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
what're you talking about? He was already hit by Kun. Defensive techniques won't do a THING when you're hit while distracted
And Kun was attacking FROM BEHIND when Kyp was
Still your mighty Luke was helpless against his attack.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Bull. It didn't 'take' that...Kun was lured into a trap by the padawans and already done for when Luke and vodo appeared.
He was not destroyed until Luke and Vodo joined them and combined their efforts. In other words: it took lot more then a single individual to defeat him, which shows that he was very powerful.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Beaten by Padawans, hail the Dark Lord
Consisting of two Grand Sons of The Chosen One and further aided by Luke's spirit and Vodo's spirit. All hail the Dark Lord now.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
G-canon does prove it.
Provide me evidence of this?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Sorry. Lucas's reviewed words, the words of the Old Republic's original creator and Matt Stover have all said Yoda is the strongest Jedi as of ROTS, in print or in writing. And they have cited Lucas as their source
And when did I denied this?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Stop being dumb. 'In history' with author clarification doesn't mean 'in a thousand years
Again, conflicts between canon sources is what is causing confusion. You take a line from one canon source to support your claim and I take a line from an another canon source to support mine. So we both are right and wrong at the same time in this case.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No it's not. It's only ambiguous when you want it to be.
Btw, 'modern times' doesn't discount 'all time.'
The term "Modern Times" points towards the modern age of Star Wars and not the Old Age.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Discounting anything post ROTS, he's number 1
I already know this.

Originally posted by allfg
Woah, calm down man, I don't think I've ever seen you angry before.



Didn't he also say that Anakin could also compete with him, once he had turned to the darkside?



1. We know this? I don't know this. DarthSith and SW Legend clearly don't know this either. Where's the proof that Sidious is, in fact, stronger than a darksided RotS Anakin?

2. Saberwise, I have to say I disagree. Anakin would destroy Sidious in lightsaber combat; he's much faster, much stronger, he had the skill to overpower Dooku, he was able to fend off Cin Drallig with his lightsaber while simultaneously choking a padawan... Sidious was terribly slow, terribly unskilled, completely lacked technique, struggled against Yoda... He only did good against people that sucked.



Again, I have to disagree. Anakin has something like ten times the potential that Sidious has. If it was referring to potential, the quote would have read 'stronger', not 'as strong as'.



Not really, because Lucas didn't do so much as directly state such a thing (like he did with the other quote), but simply put them all under the same category as people who weren't as strong as The Emporer. You can't really compare a direct statement to a wild inference, that's just silly.



Lol, sorry! I'm dealing with alot of shit in school at the moment, and had been in furious debates earlier, sorry to DS!


No, GL said that Anakin could have competed with Sidious if he had survived without the accidents, meaning if he got his potential...


Where's the proof Sidious is stronger in the force? Well for one, he can lift several pods in the air at once, and toss them around with ease, Anakin hasn't shown anything on par.
Sidious was way above Dooku, who wtfpwned Obi-Wan with a "flick of his wrist", while Anakin could only stalemate him.
Sidious has offensive powers, way more so than Anakin.
Sidious has extremely huge knowledge of the dark side, and has studied "all the aspects of the force".

Anakin making a statue fall does not even compare, that's the only feat even worth to mention....


Sidious being slow? Is that why he is referred as "the shadow" in the ROTS novelisation because he is so damn fast? He has the experience advantage against Anakin, the speed advantage (yes, he is sickly fast), he has knowledge of (possibly mastered) all the 7 forms, and is much more calm than Anakin is and could easily make Anakin make mistakes. I am afraid you are just going by the actors performance in the movies (which is the worst fighting scene in the whole Star Wars saga IMO, choreographed that is). If we would go by that, Darth Maul would be a better fighter than Sidious and Mace, not true....



Lucas has stated Anakin at full potential is twice Sidious, so it should be twice his potential. And the whole quote speaks about Anakin's potential, all about what Anakin would've become, what happened to him etc. It is really hard to explain when people are not able to see it your way, which makes this very frustrating.



But we see it different ways, and I really got to do math now. (God, math sucks). So you don't need to reply, we just say that we agree to disagree. (Unless you agree with this post that is)

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Then why discuss this?
Because you're making it into an argument


Are you being an idiot intentionally? He was helpless because he was SURPRISED AND HIT FROM BEHIND WHILE HE WAS BUSY WITH ANOTHER OPPONENT.


Luke and Vodo did...anything? When? Kun was described as helpless before they even showed up


Wow. He's beaten by infants and Padawans.
There was no aid by Luke or Vodo until Exar was done for


ROTS novelization


Why are you even contesting it?


Find me any direct canon source.
And for the record? I'm using the more recent stuff. From higher canon. And funny how all the canon seems to agree with Yoda and Palp being the most powerful up to ROTS as Jedi and Sith go...


And 'in history' and 'ever' are not exclusive of that. Which canon also mentions.


Then you're arguing why?

Going to bed, BAJ BEYE!

And why wouldn't it be?

The more recent quote wins. When was that quote stated?

No, it doesn't make sense, but what Lucas says goes, otehr people disagree because they won't admit that Anakin and Sidious are equals but if Lucas says it then it's true.

As far as I am aware of you have only one quote, so don't make it seem like you have more quotes than we do, and the more recent quote wins.

Now he is not AS POWERFUL as Sidious, meaning before he was AS POWERFUL. If it meant what you are implying that it mean then if would not have the word "now" in it.

Lucas said that he was LIKE Dooku in Maul, meaning as far as his position goes, not his strength, before he was talking about POWER. Have you asked your english teacher?

Yoda's assumption that Sidious > Anakin does not overrule Lucas's word that Sidious = Anakin, so your point is moot.


"He was never again as strong as the Emperor."
again: once more
never: at no time
"He was at no time once more as strong as the Emperor"
Meaning as one time he was one as strong as the Emperor. Otherwise the word the word "again" wouldn't have been there and it would read "He was never as strong as the Emperor." the again serves a purpose. If he didn't mean it then he wouldn't have said it.

LOl, I was just kidding, it was cool.



Ok, well I'll take you're word for it, though I could have sworn that it was said that Anakin could also compete.



I don't know about that.. In the RotS novelisation, he was able to break the head off of some giant statue (about 100 feet tall) and hurl it at an equally giant door, breaking through it. And Sidious wasn't even able to overpower a prepared Yoda, who's proven in the movies to not be anywhere near as impressive as his EU self, and nothing too special, and way overrated.



Proof for the 'way'?



What people don't seem to get about what Dooku did is that it speaks far more for his dueling skills than it does for his strength with the force. He had to put Obi-Wan on the defencive with his superior swordfighting skills, force him to concentrate and focus in blocking Dooku's attacks, and then execute a force attack midway through a parry. Obi-Wan couldn't possibly put up a force defence under those circumstances, he would have been far too focused in blocking Dooku's attacks. What Dooku did, in respect to the force, was basically on par with taking out non force sensitives with the force; really not that impressive, and in no way speaks for his superiority over Obi-Wan in that regard (though a case could certainly be made). Makes sense?

And Obi-Wan certainly proves himself when he force pushed Grievous about 50 feet in the air.



Anakin was completely unfocused and out of control in that entire duel, he would hardly be performing at his best. And Obi-Wan knew him inside out, he would know his weaknesses, and would have that advantage.



So what? Anakin can most likely defend against anything Sidious throws at him, and since when does having more offensive force powers make such a huge difference? Anakin can apply TK offensively, and he also knows force lightning (source? The canon RotS game).



That quote is actually in reference to his DE self, and knowledge is overrated; it in no way compares to actual strength with the force, and really, as long as you know a few defencive force techniques, a few offensive techniques, and maybe a few practical ones, why would more techniques really make any difference whatsoever? Sure, variety is nice, but it doesn't necessarily make too much a difference.,



That's your opinion, however I view the feat as being > than anything Sidious did.



Contradicts the movie.



He was out of practise for 13 years...



Proof? His technique was very shoddy in the movie.



I'll give it to you that he's more calm, but I doubt that he'd be able to force Anakin into a mistake. Anakin's not a moron. A high combination of skill and sycologikal dominance would be required.



The skills of the movie characters is 100% dependant on their actors' performances, so you'll have to accept that. And in response to your last statement, why must that be wrong?



I read 10 times, are you sure you got your source right?



No I get that, however that doesn't automatically put every single statement in that same context when it clearly isn't.



LOL, whoops, I had already posted a reply by the time I read this, so I'll just post it anyway.

Nebaris, you constantly keep trying to downplay Yoda and Sidious why do you keep typing the same crap over and over your argument gets destroyed every time.

Lucas word edited the ROTS Novel, meaning he completely agrees with everything put, meaning Sidious is a shadow and Yoda is the most powerful Jedi to that point. No matter how much you want it not to be true and you want Bane to hold the title of "bestest evar" it wont happen.

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Nebaris, you constantly keep trying to downplay Yoda and Sidious why do you keep typing the same crap over and over your argument gets destroyed every time.

Lucas word edited the ROTS Novel, meaning he completely agrees with everything put, meaning Sidious is a shadow and Yoda is the most powerful Jedi to that point. No matter how much you want it not to be true and you want Bane to hold the title of "bestest evar" it wont happen. This just in Tom, Darth Bane has been voted Bestestest Sith Eva by a panel of all-Sith judges. Lead Judge Marka "Pwnage" Ragnos has finally agreed with rival judge Sidious that Bane's power far surpasses all the Sith's power in history, COMBINED.

In other news, Hell recently froze over in that nation's coldest day since Bush won the Florida vote in 2000.

By your logic, he completely agrees with Kit Fisto being beheaded, even though he was slashed across the chest. I'm sorry, but simply being line edited by Lucas doesn't grant a source immunity from being retconned by a higher form of canon. This is the case here, deal with it. Palpatine is shown moving at incredibly slow speeds, in the movies aka the highest form of canon aka you lose.

Sorry Nebaris, the novel represents Lucas's intentions, however I agree if it does blatantly contradict the movie as Mace's arrest scene does then yes its not canon, however, there is a large cutaway from the Yoda/Palaptine duel, where in fact Yoda disarms Sidious, the fighting in the script is called extremely fast, the book calls Sidious a shadow meaning Sidious is a extremely fast to the point of being a shadow. You lose.

Right, so he started the duel off slow, and then, mystically during the part of the duel we don't actually get to see, he moves so quickly that he's compared to a shadow, and then, he goes back to being slow again towards the end of the duel? LOL! Don't be silly, it's a direct contradiction, and the movies > the novel, the script, and you. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Because you're making it into an argument
No! I did not. I posted what I understood about that statement and you don't need to tell me that what does that statement means because you are not Lucas.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Are you being an idiot intentionally? He was helpless because he was SURPRISED AND HIT FROM BEHIND WHILE HE WAS BUSY WITH ANOTHER OPPONENT.
The way you portray Luke, he should win in any case. He could have sensed Kun's spirit but he could not and thus he was not extra-ordinary.

And Kyp's power was also greatly enhanced by Kun's spirit. So Kun was already at a clear advantage against Luke.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Luke and Vodo did...anything? When? Kun was described as helpless before they even showed up
Luke's spirit was communicating/helping his nephew and niece so his spirit played some role. And arrival of Vodo's spirit proved to be a major shock for Kun and thus he lost all hope.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Wow. He's beaten by infants and Padawans.
There was no aid by Luke or Vodo until Exar was done for
Kun was a spirit by that time and even then he performed remarkable feats. If he would have been ressurrected then those Padawans would have stood no chance.

And Luke helped his nephew and niece by communicating with them. And Vodo's presense was enough to shock Kun so much that he lost all hope. So Luke's and Vodo's spirits played their roles in some manner.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
ROTS novelization
Did ROTS Novelization stated that Yoda was far more powerful then Kun? And if yes then provide me link and quote.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Why are you even contesting it?
I am not but you keep on dragging this point.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Find me any direct canon source.
And for the record? I'm using the more recent stuff. From higher canon. And funny how all the canon seems to agree with Yoda and Palp being the most powerful up to ROTS as Jedi and Sith go...
I used SW Databank as my source. And no one doubted that Yoda was master of Light and Sidious was master of Dark. Sidious was however termed as the highest practitioner of Sith ways in "Modern Times". But ROTS Novelization uses term "history", so their is a contradiction here.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
And 'in history' and 'ever' are not exclusive of that. Which canon also mentions.
Contradiction with information of SW Databank is evident. Not my fault.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Then you're arguing why?
No! you should stop dragging this thing again and again.

Your talking like Sidious was moving ridiculously slow during the Yoda duel. Even in the part we see (the part where there confined to the senate pods) Sidious was still moving fast, MUCH faster then his Mace duel.

And considering the fact the book doesn't call him a shadow at the start
of the duel, we see only a SMALL piece of the lightsaber portion that pans out to a over head view, then the fact that we miss what the script calls Yodas most furious and fast assault, then the we have Sidious being called a shadow, I'd say its VERY plausible and likely did happen since

A. Blurs would not be entertaining to fans

B. Lucas agrees with this interpretation.

C. Lucas agrees that Sidious was capable of indeed moving that fast.

D. Leeland Chee says cutaways and POV's can be supplemented with the Novel and other sources that don't contradict the movie.

So sorry Nebaris your wrong (as usual) and really whats the point of this discussion? Sidious was still the most powerful Sith ever before that point. His speed is rather irrelevant.

Now if were on the topic of who'd win in a straight lightsaber duel between Anakin and Sidious its Anakin.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No! I did not. I posted what I understood about that statement and you don't need to tell me that what does that statement means because you are not Lucas. No. But I have a basic grasp of English


Not sensing a spirit isn't extraordinary? Ecemplary Jedi masters can't sense spirits, eitheer. What sort of dumb logic is this? "He can't sense a spirit when he's engaging his apprentice so he sucks!"
Newsflash, btw: Luke already knew about the dark presence at that point. He drove it away in his dream, so Kun went to Gantoris. You make it sound as if Kun appearing behind a distracted Luke lessens him

He wasn't possessed, now was he?


Vodo arrived when Kun was doomed already. When Luke and Vodo appeared, the students had Kun trapped and done for


May the Dark Lord triumph over untrained kids

Vodo and Luke's appearances happened after Kun was trapped


No. However, it states Yoda to be the strongest Jedi. and other material states Palpatine to be the strongest Sith.
do the math


No, there isn't. And more than one source terms Palp the best in history. now, the ROTS novelization is personally approved word for word by Lucas himself. and if Palp's the best ever, then he's obviously going to the best recently as well.
There's no contradiction. Just an omission


Omission is not contradiction

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No. But I have a basic grasp of English
I am also not bad in English.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Not sensing a spirit isn't extraordinary? Ecemplary Jedi masters can't sense spirits, eitheer. What sort of dumb logic is this? "He can't sense a spirit when he's engaging his apprentice so he sucks!"
Newsflash, btw: Luke already knew about the dark presence at that point. He drove it away in his dream, so Kun went to Gantoris. You make it sound as if Kun appearing behind a distracted Luke lessens him
So I just discovered a weakness in the most powerful Jedi. Hmm! Nice!

And Kun was in firm control of that fight in which Luke was facing Kyp. He over-powered Kyp so that Kyp could match Luke in combat and then he himself attacked Luke and it was game over. Did you get the bigger picture here?

Point is that Kun posed a huge threat to Luke, even as a spirit.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
He wasn't possessed, now was he?
Then why did Luke said this to Cal Omas:

"That wasn't precisely Kyp who did that. He was possessed by the spirit of a long-dead Sith Lord named Exar Kun."

Do you have any more argument left now?

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Vodo arrived when Kun was doomed already. When Luke and Vodo appeared, the students had Kun trapped and done for
Kun was out-numbered by 15 individuals and thus any spirit in his place would be in great disadvantage. You should note that it was 15 vs 1 situation.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
May the Dark Lord triumph over untrained kids
Un-trained? They were being trained by Luke.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Vodo and Luke's appearances happened after Kun was trapped
I know and it was 15 on 1 situation.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No. However, it states Yoda to be the strongest Jedi. and other material states Palpatine to be the strongest Sith.
do the math
I know.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
No, there isn't. And more than one source terms Palp the best in history. now, the ROTS novelization is personally approved word for word by Lucas himself. and if Palp's the best ever, then he's obviously going to the best recently as well.
There's no contradiction. Just an omission
Two sources use different terms and it changes the meaning of the entire sentence. This is contradiction.

Originally posted by Lightsnake
Omission is not contradiction
Omission? It is contradiction.

Good god noobaris you're an idiot. Lucas' words are clear. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean they're ambiguous. Until you understand that canon>you, your arguments are going to get destroyed time and time again.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I am also not bad in English.
Ok. Show me that


What the hell are you not getting? Luke was BUSY IN A GODDAMN FIGHT TRYING NOT TO HURT KYP. Luke HELD BACK as not to harm Kyp! Kun empowered Gantoris too...what happened there? Oh, yeah, Luke showed HIM who the master was.
Kun assaulted Luke from behind. if anything, that's weak cowardice from Kun.


When Kyp was fighting him or BLOWING UP WORLDS, because there's a goddamn time gap. Moreover, Kun advised Kyp, but Kyp was in control of himself, if you bother to read the JA trilogy


15 Padawans with a few months of training at max?


With a few months worth.
Max


Shouldn't padawans not even be able to trick Kun? Let alone defeat him utterly?




Ok. So, why don't we take the one Lucas personally approved word by word?


No. It says Palpatine's the strongest in modern terms.
This doesn't contradict 'of all time'

Wow, Kun is a weakling because his spirit lost to 15 padawans.. Good one lightsnake.

Wait, we shouldn't discuss this here anyway, should make a thread or look up the old one....


Btw, sorry if it came out harsh, once again, I'm in a bad mood, shouldn't be letting it out on you.


And I just noticed I made a typo. I didn't mean to say "Why should we take this internet source over the canon commentary", I meant to ask which one is more reliable (seeing as both probably are canon), and which one of them that is the latest?
The quote from that interview was POSTED on there March 24th 2005, which was the release date of the movie in the cinemas wasn't it? Well the DVD didn't come out until much later that year, like December or something. So I think the commentary was made later....

Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Your talking like Sidious was moving ridiculously slow during the Yoda duel. Even in the part we see (the part where there confined to the senate pods) Sidious was still moving fast, MUCH faster then his Mace duel.

A tad bit faster, yes, but still pretty slow.



Out of universe explanations aren't valid in these kind of debates.



Proof?



Proof?



Dude, it's illogical to think that Sidious would have moved at those speeds in between the duel, yet move much slower at the start and end. Leland Chan is a proven moron, so his opinion means jack.



Bullshit.



Is highly relevant in terms of saber skills.



Anakin would decimate Sidious.

Actually, Lucas says only Mace and Yoda can compete with Palpatine. Period.

Anakin is not them

At least you don't think so

Anakin is simply Yoda in disguise.

No kiddo sorry, slow would be how Vader moved in ANH, hell slow would be the Mace/Sidious duel, The Yoda duel was far from slow.





Says who? Considering that the scene in question isn't seen in the movie (the highest source of canon) we turn to the next highest source ie: The book and the script, the script calls that part extremely fast, and Yoda's most furious assault, the novel says that at that point Sidious was moving as if he was a shadow and Yoda was apparently besting him while moving that fast.





Lucas word edited The ROTS novelization



See above.





Not really, considering at that start of the duel he was f*cking around with Yoda then the screen pans out and we see Yoda hopping round him, then it cuts away, and guess what we miss in that cut away: The most important and furious part of the Lightsaber portion of the duel, then when the scene returns Sidious is without a saber and in a completely different section.

Leeland Chee is the keeper of the holocron his opinion > Yours by a VERY large margin.





Whats bullshit? The fact that your usually always wrong? Or the fact that the visual guide for AOTC calls Sidious the most powerful Sith ever? Both are true.

The AOTC doesn't call him that, the ROTS novelization does.

The AOTC complete visual guide accroding to Escape calls Sidious the most Sidious the most powerful sith in history. Its something along the lines of "Unbeknowst to the Jedi the most powerful Sith Lord in hisory lurks in the shadows waiting." I've seen Escape post the exact quote and page number, so I don't think he was BS'ing